At first I wasn't sure if this was a good idea but the more I think about it, the more I like it.
We know that a lot of bitcoiners and altcoiners think btsx is a "crapcoin" and a ponzi scheme. So why do we really care what they say about us diluting btsx? Many of them are set in stone and won't "convert". This is why they aren't a target demographic for btsx. Our time, money and energy should be focused on people outside the crypto sphere. Those people don't care how it works, but if it works.
I think as long as this is well thought out and all other options are exhausted that we should go for it.Kind of reminds me of the famous five monkeys experiment.
Nobody in those communities is willing to go for the bananas any more
but no one remembers why.;)(http://blog2.id.com.au/wp-content/uploads/Monkeys-300x199.jpg)
http://www.answers.com/Q/Did_the_monkey_banana_and_water_spray_experiment_ever_take_place (http://www.answers.com/Q/Did_the_monkey_banana_and_water_spray_experiment_ever_take_place)
Kind of reminds me of the famous goose that laid the golden eggs.
(http://motivatedmormon.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Dont-Kill-the-Goose-2.jpg)
Yes, mistakes were made. Large mistakes. BTS holders at the time paid the price dearly. Those of us who didn't realize they were mistakes and held have suffered.
One cannot undo mistakes of the past, we can only make decisions now.
The relevant question is:
At the present time, with the features that BTS has now (Paid delegates, market assets, etc), is a price of 3200 satoshis per BTS too high, too low, or roughly correct?
Based on your available funds, and current exposure to BTS or lack thereof, is the correct move for your portfolio to increase your BTS holdings, decrease, or hold the same?
Yes, mistakes were made. Large mistakes. BTS holders at the time paid the price dearly. Those of us who didn't realize they were mistakes and held have suffered.
One cannot undo mistakes of the past, we can only make decisions now.
The relevant question is:
At the present time, with the features that BTS has now (Paid delegates, market assets, etc), is a price of 3200 satoshis per BTS too high, too low, or roughly correct?
Based on your available funds, and current exposure to BTS or lack thereof, is the correct move for your portfolio to increase your BTS holdings, decrease, or hold the same?
I took a big position in BTS again at the 0.000045 BTC level we seemed to stabilise at as I thought with all the positive developments and the mistakes priced in, we'd start to grow again. That has obviously proved to be incorrect. So I've been exiting that trade at a loss.
For what BTS technically is and how rapidly it can develop I think it's severely underpriced. However in terms of community growth, BitAsset adoption and general sentiment we've been weak & because we've been in a fairly sustained downtrend I've actually even sold a bit of my base position too. I'm also concerned about the amount of development BTS seems to need and if it can afford it for more than a few months if the price doesn't recover.
In conclusion I would say we're cheap but I've already taken some losses so even if I miss some of the initial gains, i'll probably wait for a clear change in the direction rather than trying to call the bottom before I accumulate again.
Yes, mistakes were made. Large mistakes. BTS holders at the time paid the price dearly. Those of us who didn't realize they were mistakes and held have suffered.
One cannot undo mistakes of the past, we can only make decisions now.
The relevant question is:
At the present time, with the features that BTS has now (Paid delegates, market assets, etc), is a price of 3200 satoshis per BTS too high, too low, or roughly correct?
Based on your available funds, and current exposure to BTS or lack thereof, is the correct move for your portfolio to increase your BTS holdings, decrease, or hold the same?
I took a big position in BTS again at the 0.000045 BTC level we seemed to stabilise at as I thought with all the positive developments and the mistakes priced in, we'd start to grow again. That has obviously proved to be incorrect. So I've been exiting that trade at a loss.
For what BTS technically is and how rapidly it can develop I think it's severely underpriced. However in terms of community growth, BitAsset adoption and general sentiment we've been weak & because we've been in a fairly sustained downtrend I've actually even sold a bit of my base position too. I'm also concerned about the amount of development BTS seems to need and if it can afford it for more than a few months if the price doesn't recover.
In conclusion I would say we're cheap but I've already taken some losses so even if I miss some of the initial gains, i'll probably wait for a clear change in the direction rather than trying to call the bottom before I accumulate again.
I'm not disagreeing with anything Empirical said here - it's reasonable. There is obviously risk involved with anything as groundbreaking as BitShares. One can argue that it makes sense to pull out to a degree and then come back in if there's a clear positive change. I would, however, like to describe an alternative way to view things.
I put quite a lot of money (for me) into BitShares, in large part because I want it to succeed for ideological reasons. If I only wanted to make money I may do what Empirical suggested. I didn't put more money in than I can afford to lose, so I would rather lose it all while supporting BitShares than sell to avoid personal loss. I see it as a once in a lifetime thing and I'm gonna stick to my metaphorical guns! If I decide I can reasonably afford more, I'll get more.
This isn't to criticise Empirical, I'm posting this to remind myself why I'm here. It's easy (and sometimes exciting) to get caught up in market caps, but for me there is more at stake.
I haven't sold any of what I initially bought, but I must say I don't think the future for Bitshares is mass adoption. Ethereum is going to be coming out in roughly a month or so, and it can do everything Bitshares can do AND MUCH MORE. Not to mention that Ethereum's backing is much greater than Bitshares. So why settle for BitShares? Why not just wait until Ethereum is released?
I haven't sold any of what I initially bought, but I must say I don't think the future for Bitshares is mass adoption. Ethereum is going to be coming out in roughly a month or so, and it can do everything Bitshares can do AND MUCH MORE. Not to mention that Ethereum's backing is much greater than Bitshares. So why settle for BitShares? Why not just wait until Ethereum is released?
*reusper*:I haven't sold any of what I initially bought, but I must say I don't think the future for Bitshares is mass adoption. Ethereum is going to be coming out in roughly a month or so, and it can do everything Bitshares can do AND MUCH MORE. Not to mention that Ethereum's backing is much greater than Bitshares. So why settle for BitShares? Why not just wait until Ethereum is released?
There's a rumor it also washes you car on the weekend and makes a mean double chocolate milkshake.
Why is BTS going down?
I bought BTS at 5, 6, and 7 Satoshi (and BTC around $500) last fall. Basically, I bought in as soon as I realized the potential of this project.
I have already lost most of my investment. To sell at this point would be pointless. The difference between selling now and the price dropping to 0.00 is too close to bother with it. I'll hold for the Hail Mary and maybe I'll get lucky.
Not how I expected the last 8 months to go, that's for sure - however the web wallet is almost useful and development in general is making progress- so we will see.
I bought BTS at 5, 6, and 7 Satoshi (and BTC around $500) last fall. Basically, I bought in as soon as I realized the potential of this project.
I have already lost most of my investment. To sell at this point would be pointless. The difference between selling now and the price dropping to 0.00 is too close to bother with it. I'll hold for the Hail Mary and maybe I'll get lucky.
Not how I expected the last 8 months to go, that's for sure - however the web wallet is almost useful and development in general is making progress- so we will see.
You are not the only one so don't worry...I have been around from the beginning and lost almost all my investment since I was buying whenever I can afford at whatever price. I think we will soon have a second pump. BTS just doesn't deserve to die. The world needs this more than ever..The problem is that the world doesn't know that yet..
I bought BTS at 5, 6, and 7 Satoshi (and BTC around $500) last fall. Basically, I bought in as soon as I realized the potential of this project.
I have already lost most of my investment. To sell at this point would be pointless. The difference between selling now and the price dropping to 0.00 is too close to bother with it. I'll hold for the Hail Mary and maybe I'll get lucky.
Not how I expected the last 8 months to go, that's for sure - however the web wallet is almost useful and development in general is making progress- so we will see.
I bought BTS at 5, 6, and 7 Satoshi (and BTC around $500) last fall. Basically, I bought in as soon as I realized the potential of this project.
I have already lost most of my investment. To sell at this point would be pointless. The difference between selling now and the price dropping to 0.00 is too close to bother with it. I'll hold for the Hail Mary and maybe I'll get lucky.
Not how I expected the last 8 months to go, that's for sure - however the web wallet is almost useful and development in general is making progress- so we will see.
you had me for a second, you mean 5k, 6k, 7k satoshi.
this is not investment advice. do your own research. these are my personal opinions and nothing more. i have no idea what i'm doing.
hang in there! if anything i would buy right now while it's low. if you don't want to hodl long term, wait, the price will come back to it's previous level and more and you can exit then. personally i'm a long term hodler with bitshares. the only other platform that comes close is nxt (and they are actually still ahead of bitshares imo, which is why i also hodl nxt). bitshares has a brighter future than nxt i believe, simply because of the way things were structured to begin with and the people behind the projects. despite our objections to certain aspects of the bitshares "pr" campaign, most everyone here at tuck fheman are ags investors, mined pts and are long term hodlers. you can make some profit now by using the bitshares exchange you own and use those bitshares to get some bitsilver, bitgold, bitbtc, bitusd while they're low and sell when they go up. rinse & repeat. since you own the exchange, you're also increasing the value of your bitshares each time you do this. it would also make the rest of your partners happy too. =)
And what do you mean buying bitUSD while it's low? It's pegged to $1 is it not? And I would only want to hedge into BitAssets if I expect the price of BTS to go down, correct? And that's really not what I want to see happen.
i think the idea is very good. but whether the community can do actual usable tools and marketing program.I bought BTS at 5, 6, and 7 Satoshi (and BTC around $500) last fall. Basically, I bought in as soon as I realized the potential of this project.
I have already lost most of my investment. To sell at this point would be pointless. The difference between selling now and the price dropping to 0.00 is too close to bother with it. I'll hold for the Hail Mary and maybe I'll get lucky.
Not how I expected the last 8 months to go, that's for sure - however the web wallet is almost useful and development in general is making progress- so we will see.
You are not the only one so don't worry...I have been around from the beginning and lost almost all my investment since I was buying whenever I can afford at whatever price. I think we will soon have a second pump. BTS just doesn't deserve to die. The world needs this more than ever..The problem is that the world doesn't know that yet..
Does anyone know how much of the merger allocation is being claimed on average?
There's up to 650k merger BTS being released a day in addition to the up to 100k via delegate dilution which is a significant amount relative to the average BTS buy walls which could be having an impact on BTS sustaining it's price at this stage. http://www.btc38.com/trade_en.html?btc38_trade_coin_name=bts
Does anyone know how much of the merger allocation is being claimed on average?
There's up to 650k merger BTS being released a day in addition to the up to 100k via delegate dilution which is a significant amount relative to the average BTS buy walls which could be having an impact on BTS sustaining it's price at this stage. http://www.btc38.com/trade_en.html?btc38_trade_coin_name=bts
well ....to be fair , most of the merger BTS was cost at least 3X than what it is now . (esp. those who got it from PTS / DNS / AGS)
I don't think many people would dump at this price .
Does anyone know how much of the merger allocation is being claimed on average?
There's up to 650k merger BTS being released a day in addition to the up to 100k via delegate dilution which is a significant amount relative to the average BTS buy walls which could be having an impact on BTS sustaining it's price at this stage. http://www.btc38.com/trade_en.html?btc38_trade_coin_name=bts
"It's always darkest before the dawn".
It is always darkest before dawn. We have all seen how fast it can rise on crazy volume. Easy come, easy go.
Living by the day to day price moves is a good way to lose sight of our mission.
"It's always darkest before the dawn".BS
(http://i.imgur.com/a3Uu4zG.png)You have a terrible attitude and nobody owes you anything.
Why the fuck the release data changed again and again?
This is a very slow progress.
Thats why the price was acting like a shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
terrible attitude?thats the fucking reality.(http://i.imgur.com/a3Uu4zG.png)You have a terrible attitude and nobody owes you anything.
Why the fuck the release data changed again and again?
This is a very slow progress.
Thats why the price was acting like a shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What are you doing to make bitshares better besides bitching?
Nope, I said you have a terrible attitude and bitch a lot, and asked you what you did. But apparently that struck a nerve.terrible attitude?thats the fucking reality.(http://i.imgur.com/a3Uu4zG.png)You have a terrible attitude and nobody owes you anything.
Why the fuck the release data changed again and again?
This is a very slow progress.
Thats why the price was acting like a shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What are you doing to make bitshares better besides bitching?
Don‘t acting you do a lot to bitshares,bitch.
I have tons of shares to vote for 100% delegate,I bought and mined PTS since day 1,you dare say i do nothing to bitshares?
你们这些老外一个个就是装逼犯,一天不装逼就不舒服
(http://i.imgur.com/a3Uu4zG.png)You have a terrible attitude and nobody owes you anything.
Why the fuck the release data changed again and again?
This is a very slow progress.
Thats why the price was acting like a shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What are you doing to make bitshares better besides bitching?
"It's always darkest before the dawn".+5%
terrible attitude?thats the fucking reality.(http://i.imgur.com/a3Uu4zG.png)You have a terrible attitude and nobody owes you anything.
Why the fuck the release data changed again and again?
This is a very slow progress.
Thats why the price was acting like a shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What are you doing to make bitshares better besides bitching?
Don‘t acting you do a lot to bitshares,bitch.
I have tons of shares to vote for 100% delegate,I bought and mined PTS since day 1,you dare say i do nothing to bitshares?
你们这些老外一个个就是装逼犯,一天不装逼就不舒服
(http://i.imgur.com/a3Uu4zG.png)You have a terrible attitude and nobody owes you anything.
Why the fuck the release data changed again and again?
This is a very slow progress.
Thats why the price was acting like a shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What are you doing to make bitshares better besides bitching?
Hey Robrigo... since when does bitching help make bitshares better? :)
Lets nuke the complainers. <play on lzr1900s avatar> All believers may take refuge in the bunker.. humm.. bet this post is going to show up in an NSA keyword scan now that I read what I wrote. :D Whupsy.
If there was anything driving down the price just from reading all the messages posted daily its this kind of thing that is doing it. Announcements are being made almost every other day about some new development carrying BitShares forward... anyways...
(http://i59.tinypic.com/wugvg8.jpg)
Why the fuck the release date changed again and again?
This is a very slow progress.
(http://i.imgur.com/a3Uu4zG.png)
Why the fuck the release date changed again and again?
This is a very slow progress.
Thats why the price was acting like a shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AND this is DVS release date,the BTS chain release date,thats another topic.
cao,how long we have to wait for a function、stable wallet?we have been wait for a long long long time.
bitshares,I DON'T WANT TO WAIT FOR YOUR SLOW MOVEMENT,BYE BYE .
totally lost my hope and love with BTS.
Ha good point, I could have phrased that better. Not trying to stir up shit but damn, almost everything lzr1900 posts is extremely negative and sometimes that shit needs to be called out.
lzr1900 can we be friends? 8)
don't worry about development , it'll get there .
(http://i.imgur.com/a3Uu4zG.png)
Why the fuck the release date changed again and again?
This is a veryslowmuch progress. Very wow!
terrible attitude?thats the fucking reality.(http://i.imgur.com/a3Uu4zG.png)You have a terrible attitude and nobody owes you anything.
Why the fuck the release data changed again and again?
This is a very slow progress.
Thats why the price was acting like a shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What are you doing to make bitshares better besides bitching?
Don‘t acting you do a lot to bitshares,bitch.
I have tons of shares to vote for 100% delegate,I bought and mined PTS since day 1,you dare say i do nothing to bitshares?
你们这些老外一个个就是装逼犯,一天不装逼就不舒服
I understand the frustration with the delayed release, but as toast posted a while ago, 1.0 is over hyped and shouldn't be a huge catalyst or mystery potion for the price.
Still, throwing temper tantrums and spewing insults isn't going to get more people to buy bitshares or get the devs to even consider your opinion. Why not focus all this energy on something productive for bitshares? Unless of course you want to see it fail...
You have a terrible attitude and nobody owes you anything.
What are you doing to make bitshares better besides bitching?
terrible attitude?thats the fucking reality.(http://i.imgur.com/a3Uu4zG.png)You have a terrible attitude and nobody owes you anything.
Why the fuck the release data changed again and again?
This is a very slow progress.
Thats why the price was acting like a shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What are you doing to make bitshares better besides bitching?
Don‘t acting you do a lot to bitshares,bitch.
I have tons of shares to vote for 100% delegate,I bought and mined PTS since day 1,you dare say i do nothing to bitshares?
你们这些老外一个个就是装逼犯,一天不装逼就不舒服
I understand the frustration with the delayed release, but as toast posted a while ago, 1.0 is over hyped and shouldn't be a huge catalyst or mystery potion for the price.
Still, throwing temper tantrums and spewing insults isn't going to get more people to buy bitshares or get the devs to even consider your opinion. Why not focus all this energy on something productive for bitshares? Unless of course you want to see it fail...
I agree that is overrated and that it shouldn't bring nothing new to the price because it is essential to have a working wallet.
Let me give you my example:
Until November I managed to have a BTSX wallet on my computer. Then things started glitching. Every new update was slower and crashing more and more. Numerous crash reports etc.. I lost my mind with it and transferred all of my BTS to btc38. I couldn't anymore wait for the wallet to re-synchronize and re-index. My BTS were still on the exchange when bter hack happened. Yesterday I decided not to play with the faith if btc38 gets hacked as bter did. I downloaded a wallet thinking how more than 3 months have passed and how something had to change. Nothing!! I sent over 10 crash reports etc.. I cannot even import the wallet from my json file anymore. I lost it completely and sold all of my BTS this morning at the loss. I just don't have nowhere to hold them. Wallet doesn't work, web wallet is not secure, exchange - there is no way I am holding my money over there anymore. I will rather miss on some of the BTS growth if it happens than to lose all of my money how it could have happened with bter.
Now I am very tech savy. I've been in BTC for over 2 years, NXT since the beginnings and BTS as well. If I have lost my mind, what do you think will happen to a complete noob??
From my perspective the new wallet is not overrated, it is completely essential!!!
P.S. I am reading today that people can't even withdraw their BTS from bter since the faulty wallet. Completely understandable.
terrible attitude?thats the fucking reality.You have a terrible attitude and nobody owes you anything.
Why the fuck the release data changed again and again?
This is a very slow progress.
Thats why the price was acting like a shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What are you doing to make bitshares better besides bitching?
Don‘t acting you do a lot to bitshares,bitch.
I have tons of shares to vote for 100% delegate,I bought and mined PTS since day 1,you dare say i do nothing to bitshares?
你们这些老外一个个就是装逼犯,一天不装逼就不舒服
I understand the frustration with the delayed release, but as toast posted a while ago, 1.0 is over hyped and shouldn't be a huge catalyst or mystery potion for the price.
Still, throwing temper tantrums and spewing insults isn't going to get more people to buy bitshares or get the devs to even consider your opinion. Why not focus all this energy on something productive for bitshares? Unless of course you want to see it fail...
I agree that is overrated and that it shouldn't bring nothing new to the price because it is essential to have a working wallet.
Let me give you my example:
Until November I managed to have a BTSX wallet on my computer. Then things started glitching. Every new update was slower and crashing more and more. Numerous crash reports etc.. I lost my mind with it and transferred all of my BTS to btc38. I couldn't anymore wait for the wallet to re-synchronize and re-index. My BTS were still on the exchange when bter hack happened. Yesterday I decided not to play with the faith if btc38 gets hacked as bter did. I downloaded a wallet thinking how more than 3 months have passed and how something had to change. Nothing!! I sent over 10 crash reports etc.. I cannot even import the wallet from my json file anymore. I lost it completely and sold all of my BTS this morning at the loss. I just don't have nowhere to hold them. Wallet doesn't work, web wallet is not secure, exchange - there is no way I am holding my money over there anymore. I will rather miss on some of the BTS growth if it happens than to lose all of my money how it could have happened with bter.
Now I am very tech savy. I've been in BTC for over 2 years, NXT since the beginnings and BTS as well. If I have lost my mind, what do you think will happen to a complete noob??
From my perspective the new wallet is not overrated, it is completely essential!!!
P.S. I am reading today that people can't even withdraw their BTS from bter since the faulty wallet. Completely understandable.
I think the circa 0.05 CNY and $20 million is a key support level.
I think the circa 0.05 CNY and $20 million is a key support level.
I think the circa 0.05 CNY and $20 million is a key support level.
It should be at $20 billion. This is not fair that all those latecomers can buy at IPO price or lower.
I think the circa 0.05 CNY and $20 million is a key support level.
It should be at $20 billion. This is not fair that all those latecomers can buy at IPO price or lower.
We are oversold atm.. We usually match nxt price so we are off by a bit it will sync up again so good buy hereI think the circa 0.05 CNY and $20 million is a key support level.
I don't think so. I'm predicting $15-18 million as the actual price. I think BTS currently are overpriced but thats my opinion.
The reason I think this is because BTS has a lot of competition to deal with in the coming months. Ethereum is about to launch. Counterparty is catching on fire again. Omni/Mastercoin has Factom, NXT is still innovating, this is a tough market.
Bitshares and Darkcoin in my opinion are tied but because Bitshares has more momentum at this moment it's barely keeping a lead. Ethereum will probably take away that momentum as people will start to sell Bitshares to get Ethers for diversification.
We are oversold atm.. We usually match nxt price so we are off by a bit it will sync up again so good buy hereI think the circa 0.05 CNY and $20 million is a key support level.
I don't think so. I'm predicting $15-18 million as the actual price. I think BTS currently are overpriced but thats my opinion.
The reason I think this is because BTS has a lot of competition to deal with in the coming months. Ethereum is about to launch. Counterparty is catching on fire again. Omni/Mastercoin has Factom, NXT is still innovating, this is a tough market.
Bitshares and Darkcoin in my opinion are tied but because Bitshares has more momentum at this moment it's barely keeping a lead. Ethereum will probably take away that momentum as people will start to sell Bitshares to get Ethers for diversification.
Also Bitshares is going to have to keep innovating. If it stops innovating the other competitors aren't going to stop.
I think the circa 0.05 CNY and $20 million is a key support level.
It should be at $20 billion. This is not fair that all those latecomers can buy at IPO price or lower.
This is an opportunity for angel investors to increase their stake without unduly increasing cost basis.
The forum has gone dark, the devs are coding like mad bastards, the spring is being wound for the next jump.
$20 billion is plausible, as is $100B and $1T and on. But it's going to take years, perhaps decades, to get there.
Folks that invested in Apple, Microsoft etc. made their fortunes 10, 20 years after their initial investments.
BTC and BTS are no different. Anyone with a significant stake now is likely to be very wealthy in 10 years....
We are oversold atm.. We usually match nxt price so we are off by a bit it will sync up again so good buy hereI think the circa 0.05 CNY and $20 million is a key support level.
I don't think so. I'm predicting $15-18 million as the actual price. I think BTS currently are overpriced but thats my opinion.
The reason I think this is because BTS has a lot of competition to deal with in the coming months. Ethereum is about to launch. Counterparty is catching on fire again. Omni/Mastercoin has Factom, NXT is still innovating, this is a tough market.
Bitshares and Darkcoin in my opinion are tied but because Bitshares has more momentum at this moment it's barely keeping a lead. Ethereum will probably take away that momentum as people will start to sell Bitshares to get Ethers for diversification.
I think the circa 0.05 CNY and $20 million is a key support level.
It should be at $20 billion. This is not fair that all those latecomers can buy at IPO price or lower.
This is an opportunity for angel investors to increase their stake without unduly increasing cost basis.
The forum has gone dark, the devs are coding like mad bastards, the spring is being wound for the next jump.
$20 billion is plausible, as is $100B and $1T and on. But it's going to take years, perhaps decades, to get there.
Folks that invested in Apple, Microsoft etc. made their fortunes 10, 20 years after their initial investments.
BTC and BTS are no different. Anyone with a significant stake now is likely to be very wealthy in 10 years....
What is a signficant stake?
Could part of the disconnect regarding the desktop client be related to hardware? I have no problems running BTS and DVS clients simultaneously and they sync within minutes - but I am running them on a developer spec MacBook Pro...I'm pretty sure if I tried to run the clients on my T440 I would not have the same experience....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think the circa 0.05 CNY and $20 million is a key support level.
It should be at $20 billion. This is not fair that all those latecomers can buy at IPO price or lower.
This is an opportunity for angel investors to increase their stake without unduly increasing cost basis.
The forum has gone dark, the devs are coding like mad bastards, the spring is being wound for the next jump.
$20 billion is plausible, as is $100B and $1T and on. But it's going to take years, perhaps decades, to get there.
Folks that invested in Apple, Microsoft etc. made their fortunes 10, 20 years after their initial investments.
BTC and BTS are no different. Anyone with a significant stake now is likely to be very wealthy in 10 years....
What is a signficant stake?
I think the circa 0.05 CNY and $20 million is a key support level.
It should be at $20 billion. This is not fair that all those latecomers can buy at IPO price or lower.
This is an opportunity for angel investors to increase their stake without unduly increasing cost basis.
The forum has gone dark, the devs are coding like mad bastards, the spring is being wound for the next jump.
$20 billion is plausible, as is $100B and $1T and on. But it's going to take years, perhaps decades, to get there.
Folks that invested in Apple, Microsoft etc. made their fortunes 10, 20 years after their initial investments.
BTC and BTS are no different. Anyone with a significant stake now is likely to be very wealthy in 10 years....
What is a signficant stake?
> 1M BTS
BTS is at its floor
Also Bitshares is going to have to keep innovating. If it stops innovating the other competitors aren't going to stop.
Heh. That's one thing we've never been accused of. :)
You are not innovatingDo you even read what you write?
you are put in a lot of useless featuresname just one!
introduse tones of bugsSure .. that's how coding works .. that's by the way why the release number is
creates unbelivable complexitiesI can believe almost everything .. except that that *they* introduce complexity
hardforks and inflate the BTS cap.. not .. again ..
thus destroyed the BTS price, job well doneThey not even sold for tax purpose .. At least Stan noted somewhere that he
introduse tones of bugsSure .. that's how coding works ..
that's by the way why the release number is
0.7.0 and not 3.4 or even 10 (X) ... The sofware is still labeled beta .. If you
are not fine with that.. dont use it.. don't invest into it..
Is NXT inflating the shares?
Is NXT inflating the shares?
I'd say it's very easy to manipulate the crypto markets right now.
The volatility is low which can cause knee jerks if someone does a pumpndump.
Looking at coinmarketcap reveals a flatline of percentages in either direction.
Inflating shares can be quite easy right now.
Lord Rothschild said it best a couple weeks ago with zerohedge:
"we are faced with a geopolitical situation as dangerous as any we have faced since World War II."
"equities are not well supported by current valuations"
"exposing equities to a potentially sharp correction"
"we expect to see in the next one to three years" - here he is saying be calm. he has to give a timeline. so in other words, we may have less than one year before the "sharp correction".
Those of you who got in mid last year are probably very antsy by now.
You know exactly how valuable the Bitshares technology, offerings and philosophy is.
If you're not buying BTS right now, even if it hasn't hit the absolute bottom, you're missing out IMO.
There is no longer any doubt in my mind that DPOS and Bitshares/Bitassets are our white knight.
As soon as an HD mobile wallet is out, wallet.bitshares.org includes 2FA and Moonstone is rockin, I'm putting 90% of everything I own in here. I'll retain some PM just in case they make crypto illegal too, or proxy out the crypto websites or something. Worst case, u know.
If you are an awesome coder, please assist the guys on Github. Every little bit helps.
https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares/issues
If you like social media, get every social site (i have an xls of 326 sites) linked to wallet.bitshares.org
If you like politics for some reason, contact every elected Rep you can and let them know about bitAssets.
If you have connections in banking, walk them thru the wallet.bitshares.org site.
If you enjoy sales then show every centralized exchange why/how they can upgrade to the Bitshares platform.
If you work with the media (alt or msm) show them the bitshares.org site.
Investment/asset/fund managers.. Show them https://wallet.bitshares.org/#/markets
If you want to see certain features, start a forum thread and detail how it should work, where it appears, etc.
If you have a friend in a poor, oppressed country, send them to wallet.bitshares.org
This is the time to buy in. Right now. This is *enough* of a bottom for me. The number of shares you buy won't change. They're value might go down for a few months until the suppression becomes more difficult, but realistically, we'll all be seeing growth and profits in less than 9 months from today. You won't get another chance like this to buy in at such a low price. That goes for all the cryptos, not just BTS and bitAssets.
Bitshares has become my white knight.
My hat's off to the Larimer's and Delegates who are workin their frikn booties off right now fixing and adding.
Thank You all for this, from the bottom of my heart, thank you.
Peace thru Crypto
because bitshares is unusable, and people can not use it to create value. so bitshares is useless now.
because bitshares is unusable, and people can not use it to create value. so bitshares is useless now.
I have to disagree, even tho I too am antsy to see new features and bug fixes and more features etc. There's no denying the Yield that I am earning now that I would not have been earning with Wall Street or a bank.
You are not innovatingDo you even read what you write?
Let me give you counter examples:
- DPOS
- MPA
- TITAN
- VOTE
- ...you are put in a lot of useless featuresname just one!introduse tones of bugsSure .. that's how coding works .. that's by the way why the release number is
0.7.0 and not 3.4 or even 10 (X) ... The sofware is still labeled beta .. If you
are not fine with that.. dont use it.. don't invest into it..creates unbelivable complexitiesI can believe almost everything .. except that that *they* introduce complexity
.. That's just wrong .. The market forced them to introduce extra complexity ..
and the people are still asking for more complex feature (i.e. relative orders)
We can feel lucky the devs are still considering them. Some other request have
been denied as too complex to implement, too!!Quotehardforks and inflate the BTS cap.. not .. again ..
You are not find with the merger .. fork the blockchain and start your own.
period!Quotethus destroyed the BTS price, job well doneThey not even sold for tax purpose .. At least Stan noted somewhere that he
NEVER sold a single Larmier (phun inteded) ..
So they are for sure not the once 'destroying' the price .. it's the market
participants that *still don't get it*(tm)
BTS will never bottom unless you wake up and face the reality, BTS is at all time low, everyone investing in BTS lost money except those scammers who got in for free.
because bitshares is unusable, and people can not use it to create value. so bitshares is useless now.
I have to disagree, even tho I too am antsy to see new features and bug fixes and more features etc. There's no denying the Yield that I am earning now that I would not have been earning with Wall Street or a bank.
Stop quibbling over where a bottom is at, who cares, seriously.
... START thinking of how we can help BitShares to succeed.
Stop quibbling over where a bottom is at, who cares, seriously.
Yes, STOP quibbling. We do care about the price because the developers and delegates depend on it to cover their cost. They do need to feed and pay rent to survive.
But START thinking of how we can help BitShares to succeed.
- ...you are put in a lot of useless featuresname just one!
Stop quibbling over where a bottom is at, who cares, seriously.
Yes, STOP quibbling. We do care about the price because the developers and delegates depend on it to cover their cost. They do need to feed and pay rent to survive.
But START thinking of how we can help BitShares to succeed.
- ...you are put in a lot of useless featuresname just one!
Useless or at the very least extremely badly timed i.e. before working bitAssets and their market place.
-TITAN - the 500 pond gorilla in the room.
-Improvementcomplete incompatibility with BTC.
- ordering short orders by collateral
-working on VOTE and pitching VOTE in California (together with the whole preparation for it and considering VOTE the cornerstone of the BTS marketing)
-mixing up block producers with people working for the blockchain - leading to the BTS paying too much or not enough all the time to such workers.
- starting to build key-graph into BTS.
- mail system.
- posting messages on account walls
-Sparkle - we will take over the world by DPOS mining....
- prediction markets
- bingo
I am sure I have missed at least 50% of the them...
... when you build a community, it takes longer than a year to get the foundation completely built and you will have many peaks and valleys.
... People are not patient, and if timelines do not fit precisely how they perceive them, many are willing to go with something less valuable that promises far more than what they had built up to that point...just so they can feel certain of a big win (even if it is just an illusion).
100% agree with you on pretty much everything Ken...though I wince to read Mr. Rothschild quoted anywhere---no matter how true his words. :P
100% agree with you on pretty much everything Ken...though I wince to read Mr. Rothschild quoted anywhere---no matter how true his words. :P
Yes, people always drag out that quote about 10 times before the true bottom.
True blood wouldve been if it hit .5 cent last night. True blood was Jan 13 in bitcoin when it was down 40% within a 24 hour period.
That said, the volume today in BTS was significant, and this could be a bottom, IF this level holds, and we continue to bounce. The market engine being broken and the resulting attempt to manipulate the price down by bitUSD whales in order to ruin the longs is a good potential bottom. If they succeed, then these whales 'steal' a bunch of BTS from the bitUSD shorts right at the bottom, and then they have incentive to drive it back up again.
everyone investing in BTS lost money except those scammers who got in for free.
I love this thread. The price will be this, no, the price will be that, no wait, the cap should be going up! OMG you guys come on..
I'm not sure how I screwed you...
How Ripple Rips you: "The founders of Ripple Labs created 100 billion XRP at Ripple's inception. No more can be created according to the rules of the Ripple protocol. Of the 100 billion created, 20 billion XRP were retained by the creators, seeders, venture capital companies and other founders. The remaining 80 billion were given to Ripple Labs. Ripple Labs intends to distribute and sell 55 of that 80 billion XRP to users and strategic partners. Ripple Labs also had a giveaway of under 200 million XRP (0.002% of all XRP) via World Community Grid that was later discontinued.[29] Ripple Labs will retain the remaining 25 billion"
- gizmoh (bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=87919)
I'm not sure how I screwed you...
By giving away my master plan!
I have been solely whaling this BTS drop with my 500+ million BTS!
If it weren't for that pesky Ander, it would have succeeded too... :(How Ripple Rips you: "The founders of Ripple Labs created 100 billion XRP at Ripple's inception. No more can be created according to the rules of the Ripple protocol. Of the 100 billion created, 20 billion XRP were retained by the creators, seeders, venture capital companies and other founders. The remaining 80 billion were given to Ripple Labs. Ripple Labs intends to distribute and sell 55 of that 80 billion XRP to users and strategic partners. Ripple Labs also had a giveaway of under 200 million XRP (0.002% of all XRP) via World Community Grid that was later discontinued.[29] Ripple Labs will retain the remaining 25 billion"
- gizmoh (bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=87919)
The very very sad thing about all this is how many people I constantly watch in cryptocurrency focusing so much on the price that they forget why we got into crypto in the first place. Instead of changing the paradigm to one that empowers everyone, they are willing to lie to others to make a quick buck---and damn those they lie to.
I was actually kicked from the Cryptocurrency Collectors Club for talking about the Ponzi nature of Nubits/Nushares while the admin pushed "the last thing we should be doing is calling out other cryptocurrencies. We are all in this together!" bs. So sad.
I personally am so pumped. Let me explain why:
-MetaExchange
-3D Printing Alliance growing
-Open Source Hardware
-DataSecurity Shares
-MoonStone
-CryptoFresh
-LimeWallet
-Nathans Wallet
-MineBitShares
-PLAY
-MUSIC
-BitSharesTV
-NullStreet Marketers
-Other DACs some are considering working on that I am not at liberty to talk about
-...and many others I am not thinking of atm.
Not so very long ago we didn't have any of these....now we are making progress. Now if only we can stop shooting ourselves in the foot by trying to be something we are not... :)
I'm not sure how I screwed you...
By giving away my master plan!
I have been solely whaling this BTS drop with my 500+ million BTS!
If it weren't for that pesky Ander, it would have succeeded too... :(How Ripple Rips you: "The founders of Ripple Labs created 100 billion XRP at Ripple's inception. No more can be created according to the rules of the Ripple protocol. Of the 100 billion created, 20 billion XRP were retained by the creators, seeders, venture capital companies and other founders. The remaining 80 billion were given to Ripple Labs. Ripple Labs intends to distribute and sell 55 of that 80 billion XRP to users and strategic partners. Ripple Labs also had a giveaway of under 200 million XRP (0.002% of all XRP) via World Community Grid that was later discontinued.[29] Ripple Labs will retain the remaining 25 billion"
- gizmoh (bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=87919)
The very very sad thing about all this is how many people I constantly watch in cryptocurrency focusing so much on the price that they forget why we got into crypto in the first place. Instead of changing the paradigm to one that empowers everyone, they are willing to lie to others to make a quick buck---and damn those they lie to.
I was actually kicked from the Cryptocurrency Collectors Club for talking about the Ponzi nature of Nubits/Nushares while the admin pushed "the last thing we should be doing is calling out other cryptocurrencies. We are all in this together!" bs. So sad.
I personally am so pumped. Let me explain why:
-MetaExchange
-3D Printing Alliance growing
-Open Source Hardware
-DataSecurity Shares
-MoonStone
-CryptoFresh
-LimeWallet
-Nathans Wallet
-MineBitShares
-PLAY
-MUSIC
-BitSharesTV
-NullStreet Marketers
-Other DACs some are considering working on that I am not at liberty to talk about
-...and many others I am not thinking of atm.
Not so very long ago we didn't have any of these....now we are making progress. Now if only we can stop shooting ourselves in the foot by trying to be something we are not... :)
There seems to be an expectation that BTS is a little speed boat zipping towards the land of insta-riches.
BTS is a juggernaut that is going to roll over the world. Slowly, inexorably.
It is picking up momentum but folks can't see it.
Pity. I'll just keep DCAing each week and see ya'll in five years...
Fun fact... it took less than 12hrs from all the crying about the market engine being broken today to it being fixed and making most of the commentary that attached/attacked with that null and void and look rather.. umm.. <fill in the blank>.
It's fixed.. you will have to switch to a new default complaint card... lets make it a good one.. I want to keep buying at this price as long as possible honestly. :)
Fun fact... it took less than 12hrs from all the crying about the market engine being broken today to it being fixed and making most of the commentary that attached/attacked with that null and void and look rather.. umm.. <fill in the blank>.
It's fixed.. you will have to switch to a new default complaint card... lets make it a good one.. I want to keep buying at this price as long as possible honestly. :)
I've been rather bullish all the way down, and supporting the system by shorting. I'm okay losing money when the price goes down, I'm okay losing BTS when the price goes down, but losing BTS because of a programming error and being laughed at, that's shitty.
I'm not sure how I screwed you...
By giving away my master plan!
I have been solely whaling this BTS drop with my 500+ million BTS!
If it weren't for that pesky Ander, it would have succeeded too... :(How Ripple Rips you: "The founders of Ripple Labs created 100 billion XRP at Ripple's inception. No more can be created according to the rules of the Ripple protocol. Of the 100 billion created, 20 billion XRP were retained by the creators, seeders, venture capital companies and other founders. The remaining 80 billion were given to Ripple Labs. Ripple Labs intends to distribute and sell 55 of that 80 billion XRP to users and strategic partners. Ripple Labs also had a giveaway of under 200 million XRP (0.002% of all XRP) via World Community Grid that was later discontinued.[29] Ripple Labs will retain the remaining 25 billion"
- gizmoh (bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=87919)
The very very sad thing about all this is how many people I constantly watch in cryptocurrency focusing so much on the price that they forget why we got into crypto in the first place. Instead of changing the paradigm to one that empowers everyone, they are willing to lie to others to make a quick buck---and damn those they lie to.
I was actually kicked from the Cryptocurrency Collectors Club for talking about the Ponzi nature of Nubits/Nushares while the admin pushed "the last thing we should be doing is calling out other cryptocurrencies. We are all in this together!" bs. So sad.
I personally am so pumped. Let me explain why:
-MetaExchange
-3D Printing Alliance growing
-Open Source Hardware
-DataSecurity Shares
-MoonStone
-CryptoFresh
-LimeWallet
-Nathans Wallet
-MineBitShares
-PLAY
-MUSIC
-BitSharesTV
-NullStreet Marketers
-Other DACs some are considering working on that I am not at liberty to talk about
-...and many others I am not thinking of atm.
Not so very long ago we didn't have any of these....now we are making progress. Now if only we can stop shooting ourselves in the foot by trying to be something we are not... :)
What's going on with Doge? BitShares got pushed to #6 :-X
What's going on with Doge? BitShares got pushed to #6 :-X
Glitch on CMC. BTC38 has the most volume and price at 52 sat, CMC is reporting 70 sat overall. Not sure where the discrepancy comes from.
What's going on with Doge? BitShares got pushed to #6 :-X
Glitch on CMC. BTC38 has the most volume and price at 52 sat, CMC is reporting 70 sat overall. Not sure where the discrepancy comes from.
coinmarketcap often plays such discrepancy . 38% off from the actual dogecoin price
(https://41.media.tumblr.com/f9f3f0f3821e3acd3c05de29a4914a76/tumblr_nlt6vwSktp1rtef2wo1_1280.png)that may have been the max? you now cannot sell bitUSD.it's back.
(https://41.media.tumblr.com/f9f3f0f3821e3acd3c05de29a4914a76/tumblr_nlt6vwSktp1rtef2wo1_1280.png)that may have been the max? you now cannot sell bitUSD.it's back.
Don't forget about metaexchange :).
https://metaexchange.info/markets/BTC/bitUSD
#shamelessplugisshameless
Also, Blocktrades.us
Don't forget about metaexchange :).
https://metaexchange.info/markets/BTC/bitUSD
#shamelessplugisshameless
(http://i.imgur.com/BjhyHXE.png)correlation != causation
correlation != causation
(http://i.imgur.com/BjhyHXE.png)correlation != causation
I miss seeing posts from BM and Toast too but let's not get ahead of ourselves
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
correlation != causation
Agreed, interesting nonetheless.
(http://i.imgur.com/BjhyHXE.png)correlation != causation
I miss seeing posts from BM and Toast too but let's not get ahead of ourselves
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with BM posting more however the loss of value is primarily due to the introduction of inflation & subsequent loss of crypto-currency status.
Bitcoin is an inefficient company that is wasteful and which can’t fund it’s own development and marketing. It doesn’t have any products on its blockchain. Yet this ‘company’ is worth $3.5 Billion. Why? It is a popular crypto-currency with unchangeable supply rules. That is the product, a popular form of money with supply rules that aren’t changeable by man can become extremely valuable as Gold and Silver have shown.
BitSharesX was a Bitcoin challenger. It’s incredibly difficult to usurp the market leader but BTSX was on track to do it. With no inflation, more effective decentralisation and an incredibly fast blockchain that might also disintermediate centralised payment processors like BitPay, BTSX was arguably the strongest Bitcoin challenger on the market & was correctly valued as such. In addition it had a team of highly talented developers, money in the bank and was also developing the potential killer app, BitAssets which would allow people to move freely between a wide range of assets in a way that would benefit and generate revenue for holders of BitSharesX. It was also already hugely popular in Asia & growing in size by every community metric. It was amazing. The market correctly valued it at 0.00093 BTC and rising. It’s hard to imagine that with that trajectory and all the subsequent development we’ve enjoyed including web and mobile wallets and now a direct PM gateway too that BTS would be valued any less than $250 million at this stage and given the BTC capitulation at the beginning of the year may even as far-fetched as it sounds been in a much stronger position than even that.
Then the market realised the largest shareholder, main developer and overall leader was very serious about introducing dilution to turn BTSX into a self funding competitive company to maximise our ability to develop BitAssets & other blockchain based products and services. BitShares has since lost over 75% of it’s BTC & $ value. It is now viewed as a company and the market is evaluating the development, progress and adoption of BitAssets as the key valuation metric. Currently I would say BTS is valued fairly by the market for what it is now at the current stage. This unfortunately puts a lot of pressure on developers to constantly deliver. It’s quite sad because BTSX as a crypto-currency was already largely developed and generating a bigger following every single month as opposed to our current constant state of value and community decline.
There are positive developments coming along and I wouldn’t be surprised to see a small reversal, potentially a bigger one if BitAssets can attract a niche market or create a popular product which uses BitAssets.
I have gotten more done for the future of BTS in the past month than in the 3 months prior and everyone on the core team knows it.
I wonder whats the point of inflation anymore? I mean its had a negative effect on the community and will continue as long as it exists. It has major problems where the "employees" have no clue what they are getting paid from day to day etc.
I bet that bitsharesX could have been a true self funding dac based on fees - meaning it hired and paid people set amounts based on its income (fees)
I have gotten more done for the future of BTS in the past month than in the 3 months prior and everyone on the core team knows it.We love and appreciate you, Dan! Keep up the awesome work 8)
Why? It is a popular crypto-currency with unchangeable supply rules.
You took Bitcoin weakness (necessity to pay money to electrical companies) and transformed it into your strength (self-funding). That was a smart engineering solution.
I have gotten more done for the future of BTS in the past month than in the 3 months prior and everyone on the core team knows it.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with BM posting more however the loss of value is primarily due to the introduction of inflation & subsequent loss of crypto-currency status.
Bitcoin is an inefficient company that is wasteful and which can’t fund it’s own development and marketing. It doesn’t have any products on its blockchain. Yet this ‘company’ is worth $3.5 Billion. Why? It is a popular crypto-currency with unchangeable supply rules. That is the product, a popular form of money with supply rules that aren’t changeable by man can become extremely valuable as Gold and Silver have shown.
BitSharesX was a Bitcoin challenger. It’s incredibly difficult to usurp the market leader but BTSX was on track to do it. With no inflation, more effective decentralisation and an incredibly fast blockchain that might also disintermediate centralised payment processors like BitPay, BTSX was arguably the strongest Bitcoin challenger on the market & was correctly valued as such. In addition it had a team of highly talented developers, money in the bank and was also developing the potential killer app, BitAssets which would allow people to move freely between a wide range of assets in a way that would benefit and generate revenue for holders of BitSharesX. It was also already hugely popular in Asia & growing in size by every community metric. It was amazing. The market correctly valued it at 0.00093 BTC and rising. It’s hard to imagine that with that trajectory and all the subsequent development we’ve enjoyed including web and mobile wallets and now a direct PM gateway too that BTS would be valued any less than $250 million at this stage and given the BTC capitulation at the beginning of the year may even as far-fetched as it sounds been in a much stronger position than even that.
Then the market realised the largest shareholder, main developer and overall leader was very serious about introducing dilution to turn BTSX into a self-funding competitive company to maximise our ability to develop BitAssets & other blockchain based products and services. BitShares has since lost over 75% of it’s BTC & $ value. It is now viewed as a company and the market is evaluating the development, progress and adoption of BitAssets as the key valuation metric. Currently I would say BTS is valued fairly by the market for what it is now at the current stage. This unfortunately puts a lot of pressure on developers to constantly deliver. It’s quite sad because BTSX as a crypto-currency was already largely developed and generating a bigger following every single month as opposed to our current constant state of value and community decline.
There are positive developments coming along and I wouldn’t be surprised to see a small reversal, potentially a bigger one if BitAssets can attract a niche market or create a popular product which uses BitAssets.
Why? It is a popular crypto-currency with unchangeable supply rules.
Counter argument:
Why? Its the first real cryptocurrency and has been around the longest, nothing to do with supply rules.
To quote Come-from-Beyond:QuoteYou took Bitcoin weakness (necessity to pay money to electrical companies) and transformed it into your strength (self-funding). That was a smart engineering solution.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=940298.msg10895809#msg10895809
Counter argument:
Why? Its the first real cryptocurrency and has been around the longest, nothing to do with supply rules.
I have gotten more done for the future of BTS in the past month than in the 3 months prior and everyone on the core team knows it.
Hey, if keeping off the forum really is allowing you to bang out development like that then that's awesome. I'll take a more-or-less quiet but busting-ass BM if it means development pace is accelerated. +5%
And @ Empirical: I think you're really, really overestimating the impact that dilution and the merger et al had on the BTS price. Just about every crypto in general has gone through the same phases: huge hype and price blowout followed by slow bleed. If nothing had changed supply-wise with BTS but the same promises remained unfulfilled (fiat on-ramps, marketing blitz, etc) I can pretty much guarantee we'd still be in about the same position price wise as we are today. Honestly it's just kind of how the markets work. Without real adoption it's nothing more than mass speculation, regardless of dilution etc.
I personally think the self-funding method of dilution is an incredible idea, and if the devs can truly knock out some key aspects/features in the next few months to raise the market cap, the self-funding will take on a life of its own.
I see your points there, but there is no proof of what you are saying. NXT at one point had a market cap around 100 million there was not any major change since then and they are at 10 millions right now. No proof that the inflation change created the decline. There are many factors that cause it, like "pump and dump", btc price, poor marketing, not any major business deal, bad PR, bad wallet etc. I for one thing that the self-funding model invented by Bitshares will be the used in every DAC in the future, I think it is absolutely genius. You forget also that if the market cap is big enough the dilution could practically disappear, in other word this could only be temporary on the startup phase of a DAC, the time where money are most need it and hard to come by. Even if Bitshare will not be the DAC that we all hoped it would be , they introduce so much innovation in the space that I'm pretty sure will stand the test of time.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with BM posting more however the loss of value is primarily due to the introduction of inflation & subsequent loss of crypto-currency status.
Bitcoin is an inefficient company that is wasteful and which can’t fund it’s own development and marketing. It doesn’t have any products on its blockchain. Yet this ‘company’ is worth $3.5 Billion. Why? It is a popular crypto-currency with unchangeable supply rules. That is the product, a popular form of money with supply rules that aren’t changeable by man can become extremely valuable as Gold and Silver have shown.
BitSharesX was a Bitcoin challenger. It’s incredibly difficult to usurp the market leader but BTSX was on track to do it. With no inflation, more effective decentralisation and an incredibly fast blockchain that might also disintermediate centralised payment processors like BitPay, BTSX was arguably the strongest Bitcoin challenger on the market & was correctly valued as such. In addition it had a team of highly talented developers, money in the bank and was also developing the potential killer app, BitAssets which would allow people to move freely between a wide range of assets in a way that would benefit and generate revenue for holders of BitSharesX. It was also already hugely popular in Asia & growing in size by every community metric. It was amazing. The market correctly valued it at 0.00093 BTC and rising. It’s hard to imagine that with that trajectory and all the subsequent development we’ve enjoyed including web and mobile wallets and now a direct PM gateway too that BTS would be valued any less than $250 million at this stage and given the BTC capitulation at the beginning of the year may even as far-fetched as it sounds been in a much stronger position than even that.
Then the market realised the largest shareholder, main developer and overall leader was very serious about introducing dilution to turn BTSX into a self funding competitive company to maximise our ability to develop BitAssets & other blockchain based products and services. BitShares has since lost over 75% of it’s BTC & $ value. It is now viewed as a company and the market is evaluating the development, progress and adoption of BitAssets as the key valuation metric. Currently I would say BTS is valued fairly by the market for what it is now at the current stage. This unfortunately puts a lot of pressure on developers to constantly deliver. It’s quite sad because BTSX as a crypto-currency was already largely developed and generating a bigger following every single month as opposed to our current constant state of value and community decline.
So the developers stuck around and are sticking around for less than $1k per month?? I highly doubt it...and i got the impression from other posts that they were actually "taken care of" behind the scenes.
I think the idea behind the merger was sound but the current dillution that pays employees in dilution is broken.
IMO we should push to move to payouts to employees cannot exceed fees. Until such time that the fees are not enough to keep developers on there own the major stakeholders should be taking care of the developers behind the scenes by reducing their stake.
See I dont think the problem is the "Selling Pressure". I think the problem is that people lost confidence because they now believe that there can be all this dilution.
So the point I was making was if we were to say adopt a policy of hey we can never dilute beyond the fees i think this would bring in more buyers and increase confidence. In the meantime there is an issue where we need to get enough runway to keep the developers.
I know my comment about major stakeholders is not popular but my point is something has to give..i know there is no easy answer to fix the price imo.
But that doesnt change the fact that a paying employees in share dilution has issues...they have no idea what they are going to make day to day...and b) it's so low at this point what is the point of it? does it actually keep anyone developing?
BitShares has a fixed ceiling it will never reach and one-fifth the dilution of Bitcoin - which wastes its dilution instead of reinvesting it. How does that disqualify one from being a currency and not the other?
Further, BitShares is a profitable company that produces smart-currencies as its products. Products that are better in every way with none of the drawbacks you mention. There is no inflation in BitAssets at all (relative to their underlying peg) and the underlying BTS can produce those stable currency products whether is gaining or falling in value. BTS is not intended to be a currency itself, so a tiny amount of dilution has zero affect on the value proposition of its smart currency products.
Further, regardless of whether developers are paid in "mined" equity or existing equity from the AGS stash or 10% set aside for developers in the genesis block, the selling pressure they generate to pay their rent would be the same anyway. That modicum of selling pressure is the cost of generating forward thrust. There was no other source of thrust. BTSX would have stopped advancing in the state it was in November. If work had stopped, where would the price be?
BTSX would have stagnated with no further support while BitShares VOTE and DNS would be splitting the benefits of what BitShares is today - self funding of developers and other ecosystem entrepreneurs. People always seem to forget what the alternatives were when the decisions were made. The fact is thatThe BTSX-only universe you are wishing for was not one of the choices available to us.
The only choices were to merge or commit fratricide - three block chains competing to the death for market depth and network effect (where BTSX was the only one unable to pay developers). Imagine three different BitUSDs splitting the current market depth.
We are so incredibly much stronger than we were in November I can hardly believe it. The market will catch up with that fact in due time. In the meantime, I hope everybody enjoyed the March Madness sale!
BitShares has a fixed ceiling it will never reach and one-fifth the dilution of Bitcoin - which wastes its dilution instead of reinvesting it. How does that disqualify one from being a currency and not the other?
Further, BitShares is a profitable company that produces smart-currencies as its products. Products that are better in every way with none of the drawbacks you mention. There is no inflation in BitAssets at all (relative to their underlying peg) and the underlying BTS can produce those stable currency products whether is gaining or falling in value. BTS is not intended to be a currency itself, so a tiny amount of dilution has zero affect on the value proposition of its smart currency products.
Further, regardless of whether developers are paid in "mined" equity or existing equity from the AGS stash or 10% set aside for developers in the genesis block, the selling pressure they generate to pay their rent would be the same anyway. That modicum of selling pressure is the cost of generating forward thrust. There was no other source of thrust. BTSX would have stopped advancing in the state it was in November. If work had stopped, where would the price be?
BTSX would have stagnated with no further support while BitShares VOTE and DNS would be splitting the benefits of what BitShares is today - self funding of developers and other ecosystem entrepreneurs. People always seem to forget what the alternatives were when the decisions were made. The fact is thatThe BTSX-only universe you are wishing for was not one of the choices available to us.
The only choices were to merge or commit fratricide - three block chains competing to the death for market depth and network effect (where BTSX was the only one unable to pay developers). Imagine three different BitUSDs splitting the current market depth.
We are so incredibly much stronger than we were in November I can hardly believe it. The market will catch up with that fact in due time. In the meantime, I hope everybody enjoyed the March Madness sale!
Stan - this post should be a sticky. I couldn't agree more and needed this sanity check/reminder of where we are/came from in November.
Do you think Bitcoin would have gained popularity if the Bitcoin foundation or early adopters got to decide on how much dilution Bitcoin should have the following year and where it should be directed? I highly doubt it.
correlation != causation
Agreed, interesting nonetheless.
I have gotten more done for the future of BTS in the past month than in the 3 months prior and everyone on the core team knows it.
correlation != causation
Agreed, interesting nonetheless.
I have gotten more done for the future of BTS in the past month than in the 3 months prior and everyone on the core team knows it.
Except ultimately, BitShares is likely going to be even LESS inflationary than Bitcoin even with all delegates at 100% (and that won't happen). So actually from everything I've read the Incorrect perception that BitShares is truly "inflationary" is a hard sell for those who have been around here reading the analysis over time on the forum.
Bitcoin is going to change or die. It cannot change, though, without pissing a bunch of people off, which will cause problems for it. Bitcoin needs something better than the "Bitcoin foundation" to rule it.
BitShares actually gives the citizenry a way to choose the course of BitShares in a more stable and less volatile way--BAKED INTO THE DAMNED CAKE! This means that once we all figure out how to best utilize those tools (and some of those tools are built by people -- like bitsapphire and many others), our problems will not hold us back at all because we will more easily adapt to them.
Everyone here does recognize BitShares is just a little bit over 1 year old and Bitcoin has been around for almost 7, right? Let's everyone here do me a favor and lets promise to get on Mumble in 5 more years and look over this post together--and record the commentary.
One caveat though--I get to drink a bunch of Gin and laugh at all of you who are hanging your heads right now...and you have to laugh too, cause you will have to admit how ridiculous this fear was.
BitShares has a fixed ceiling it will never reach and one-fifth the dilution of Bitcoin - which wastes its dilution instead of reinvesting it. How does that disqualify one from being a currency and not the other?
Further, BitShares is a profitable company that produces smart-currencies as its products. Products that are better in every way with none of the drawbacks you mention. There is no inflation in BitAssets at all (relative to their underlying peg) and the underlying BTS can produce those stable currency products whether is gaining or falling in value. BTS is not intended to be a currency itself, so a tiny amount of dilution has zero affect on the value proposition of its smart currency products.
Further, regardless of whether developers are paid in "mined" equity or existing equity from the AGS stash or 10% set aside for developers in the genesis block, the selling pressure they generate to pay their rent would be the same anyway. That modicum of selling pressure is the cost of generating forward thrust. There was no other source of thrust. BTSX would have stopped advancing in the state it was in November. If work had stopped, where would the price be?
BTSX would have stagnated with no further support while BitShares VOTE and DNS would be splitting the benefits of what BitShares is today - self funding of developers and other ecosystem entrepreneurs. People always seem to forget what the alternatives were when the decisions were made. The fact is thatThe BTSX-only universe you are wishing for was not one of the choices available to us.
The only choices were to merge or commit fratricide - three block chains competing to the death for market depth and network effect (where BTSX was the only one unable to pay developers). Imagine three different BitUSDs splitting the current market depth.
We are so incredibly much stronger than we were in November I can hardly believe it. The market will catch up with that fact in due time. In the meantime, I hope everybody enjoyed the March Madness sale!
Stan - this post should be a sticky. I couldn't agree more and needed this sanity check/reminder of where we are/came from in November.
+5%
I'm really getting tired of all that delegate pay doom and gloom talk. I don't understand how our greatest advantage over all other crypto projects is constantly getting attacked in such a manner. Whereas Bitcoin with far higher inflation (and inefficient use) has still a market cap 200 times higher. And even more importantly is trading relatively stable at those prices.
Actually, I left out one important Fun Fact: In 5 months the share supply has increased from 2,500,000,000 to 2,505,960,283 for a net increase of 5,960,283 or 0.24%. So, those who complain about dilution are asserting that a fraction of a percent worth of dilution is responsible for several hundred percent decline in price.
Now, it may be true that complaining about dilution is responsible for such a drop, but the dilution itself has been negligible.
:)
It's a question I ask to myself a lot lately ; what does prevent bitcoin of upgrading his current noneffective tech & POW system to our BitShares way of doing things ?
It's a question I ask to myself a lot lately ; what does prevent bitcoin of upgrading his current noneffective tech & POW system to our BitShares way of doing things ?
On the technical side, porting bitcoin to DPOS would be a major undertaking. Nobody would be willing to take the risk that something goes wrong along the way, because a mistake in that process could destroy bitcoin.
On the political side - NO WAY! The bitcoin community consists largely of PoW believers who wouldn't touch PoS or DPOS with a long pole. Ever. Even if a subset of the community did make such a move, the rest would stay behind and effectively fork bitcoin.
And talking of bitcoin .... Bitcoin Foundation torn apart ..
"Dear Members,
I was elected on a platform of transparency and decentralization of core development. Since the beginning, the Foundation has been sorely lacking any transparency of its actions. I can no longer in good conscience hide the truth on what I have witnessed in the Bitcoin Foundation since I was elected last month.
First of all, the Bitcoin Foundation is effectively bankrupt. As a result of 2 years of ridiculous spending and poorly thought out decisions, they almost ran out of money in November of last year. In extremis, but way too late, they decided to select a new executive director during that time. That new director decided that the only way to still get funds at that point, was to focus solely on funding core development, in the hope that people would see that as a good cause. But people were smart enough not to trust the Foundation anymore. Despite it’s intentions, they failed to collect the necessary funds to support this idea. With the election in February-March, it became clear that people did not want the Foundation meddling with core development. The truth is that the Foundation’s plan was to hire even more core devs + to start a Bitcoin Standards Body. No organization should have this much control over Bitcoin, and a disaster was avoided.
When I joined on my first Board meeting, Jim Harper and myself immediately put forward a vote to have the board meeting recorded. We followed Robert’s rules of orders, and everyone else basically shut us down and failed to follow procedures. There were “more urgent” things to discuss (as you will see later, the urgent pattern was an excuse to just continue on their course and shut us up). It was critical for us to vote on a plan that would save the Foundation. When I mentioned that such a critical vote is all the more reason to make sure the whole meeting gets recorded, I was ignored. The Bitcoin Foundation hates transparency. If they would have been transparent then everyone would know there is no money left. Something I think the members have a right to know, wouldn’t you think? Members have a right to know that the current board failed to tell them the truth, and that their way of running the organization resulted in it going bankrupt. But instead of taking responsibility, they want to find the next executive director, that will come up with another magic plan. Ironically, being transparent from the start might have prevented this whole thing to begin with.
Everyone has the right to know the truth:
– The Foundation has almost no money left, and just fired 90% of its people. Some will stay on as volunteers.
– Core dev can no longer be funded by it, and Patrick Murck is trying to re-create a new Foundation just for core dev, because the current name is tarnished. Do not fall for this.
– The current Executive Director (Patrick Murck), will be gone in 2 weeks, and they are trying to find the next person to blame everything on.
– Jim Harper was threatened for doing a press release which was (barely) critical of the Foundation after he got elected. The Foundation tries to make sure we hide the truth by subtly threatening us on a regular basis.
– If I get asked to leave the Foundation for telling the truth, so be it. The truth is being told.
Moving forward:
– A special trust fund is being created and I will donate several 100k to pre-pay Gavin’s, Wladimirs and some other core devs wage for the next year (if they choose to accept). The control of this trust fund will be handed over to the core devs, who can decide who can join it. Alternatively, we can give voting power to everyone who puts money in it (pro-rata). I will also organize crowdfunds and help make this fund public. At no point do I want to have any control whatsoever.
– It is up to the members of the Bitcoin Foundation to decide what they want to do now. The bylaws allow for a special board meeting to be called by 15% of members. I would recommend you to do so and ask for all information to be released so you can learn the truth. Additionally I would recommend for you to replace the whole board if you want this organization to last. Alternatively you can vote to shut it down and get your money back. There might not be enough money left in the Foundation to pay its members back, but I will personally try to help make up the difference, even though I have not been part of it.
The lesson for all of us in Bitcoin is to never put any trust in a centralized org again that wanted to represent Bitcoin or the Core Development of Bitcoin.
Please provide feedback here on the Bitcoin forum.
Note: I totally expect the current Board members to try to place blame on me for whatever reason. They are very bad at taking personal responsibility. I have had several threats, but I’m releasing this anyway.
Olivier"
Actually, I left out one important Fun Fact: In 5 months the share supply has increased from 2,500,000,000 to 2,505,960,283 for a net increase of 5,960,283 or 0.24%. So, those who complain about dilution are asserting that a fraction of a percent worth of dilution is responsible for several hundred percent decline in price.
Now, it may be true that complaining about dilution is responsible for such a drop, but the dilution itself has been negligible.
:)
Very good point! This fact needs to spread like wild fire in the Chinese community since many had fears.
Actually, I left out one important Fun Fact: In 5 months the share supply has increased from 2,500,000,000 to 2,505,960,283 for a net increase of 5,960,283 or 0.24%. So, those who complain about dilution are asserting that a fraction of a percent worth of dilution is responsible for several hundred percent decline in price.
Now, it may be true that complaining about dilution is responsible for such a drop, but the dilution itself has been negligible.
:)
Very good point! This fact needs to spread like wild fire in the Chinese community since many had fears.
Everyone knows that fact. They also know that all those numbers will keep getting bigger. Bigger in that way is perceived as not good. Why? Because in light of the genius idea to dilute and inflate, look what has happened to the share price. It going down, down, down despite all the Invictus innovations happening.
What's most amazing is you have multiple marketing delegates (and other delegates) collecting 100's of thousands of BTS and yet nothing is being done except a taxation to the chain at the expense of everyone else. Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot we need 1.0 before we can market anything. It's a good thing nobody has ever made a teaser trailer for a movie yet to be released. I mean there is no way I just watched the Mad Max Fury Road trailer yesterday since it's not going to be released until next month. That would be idiotic to market something before it's release.
Also, it amazes me that the story of dilution and inflation was backed and reinforced by the fact that the Devs needed funding, yet here we are over 4 months later and the Devs have made a total of $3000 worth of BTS at current prices. In their hindsight I know they know it was a bad idea as it has done more damage to their previous personal holdings than what it netted them in the meantime. Next time think things through and weigh the consequences and don't let the possible benefits blind you. Was it worth it?
Actually, I left out one important Fun Fact: In 5 months the share supply has increased from 2,498,764,342 to 2,505,960,283 for a net increase of 7,197,985 or 0.28%. So, those who complain about dilution are asserting that a fraction of a percent worth of dilution is responsible for several hundred percent decline in price.
Now, it may be true that complaining about dilution is responsible for such a drop, but the dilution itself has been negligible.
:)
fact is nearly all coins are in a downtrend, and fact is nxt, counterparty, mastercoin, ethereum, bitcoin foundation, etc. are struggling as much if not more than we are.. fact is everyone in crypto have underestimated the cost associated with revolutionizing finance. fact is if we all go up again to 150 million, bitshares devs would be making $10k a month. fact is there is a good chance the whole space, bitcoin included, is in its deceptive phase (https://plus.google.com/+PeterHDiamandis/posts/dWQFcpcws8V). fact is even at this price things are getting done that wouldn't have been without the delegate system. fact is most of the vc cash flowing into this space is going to solutions that break with honest principles, and they will suffer from centralized control down the line, just like gox did, just like ripple did, just like the bitcoin foundation did. fact is most people don't "get it" yet, and they won't until there is a new bubble, and by then we are ready with a decentralized, sound economically viable system.
fact is nearly all coins are in a downtrend, and fact is nxt, counterparty, mastercoin, ethereum, bitcoin foundation, etc. are struggling as much if not more than we are.. fact is everyone in crypto have underestimated the cost associated with revolutionizing finance. fact is if we all go up again to 150 million, bitshares devs would be making $10k a month. fact is there is a good chance the whole space, bitcoin included, is in its deceptive phase (https://plus.google.com/+PeterHDiamandis/posts/dWQFcpcws8V). fact is even at this price things are getting done that wouldn't have been without the delegate system. fact is most of the vc cash flowing into this space is going to solutions that break with honest principles, and they will suffer from centralized control down the line, just like gox did, just like ripple did, just like the bitcoin foundation did. fact is most people don't "get it" yet, and they won't until there is a new bubble, and by then we are ready with a decentralized, sound economically viable system.
almost my own thoughts. We need now to lay the bricks and mortar to be prepared if someone needs an alternative.
fact is nearly all coins are in a downtrend, and fact is nxt, counterparty, mastercoin, ethereum, bitcoin foundation, etc. are struggling as much if not more than we are.. fact is everyone in crypto have underestimated the cost associated with revolutionizing finance. fact is if we all go up again to 150 million, bitshares devs would be making $10k a month. fact is there is a good chance the whole space, bitcoin included, is in its deceptive phase (https://plus.google.com/+PeterHDiamandis/posts/dWQFcpcws8V). fact is even at this price things are getting done that wouldn't have been without the delegate system. fact is most of the vc cash flowing into this space is going to solutions that break with honest principles, and they will suffer from centralized control down the line, just like gox did, just like ripple did, just like the bitcoin foundation did. fact is most people don't "get it" yet, and they won't until there is a new bubble, and by then we are ready with a decentralized, sound economically viable system.almost my own thoughts. We need now to lay the bricks and mortar tobe prepared if someone needs an alternative.
fact is nearly all coins are in a downtrend, and fact is nxt, counterparty, mastercoin, ethereum, bitcoin foundation, etc. are struggling as much if not more than we are.. fact is everyone in crypto have underestimated the cost associated with revolutionizing finance. fact is if we all go up again to 150 million, bitshares devs would be making $10k a month. fact is there is a good chance the whole space, bitcoin included, is in its deceptive phase (https://plus.google.com/+PeterHDiamandis/posts/dWQFcpcws8V). fact is even at this price things are getting done that wouldn't have been without the delegate system. fact is most of the vc cash flowing into this space is going to solutions that break with honest principles, and they will suffer from centralized control down the line, just like gox did, just like ripple did, just like the bitcoin foundation did. fact is most people don't "get it" yet, and they won't until there is a new bubble, and by then we are ready with a decentralized, sound economically viable system.almost my own thoughts. We need now to lay the bricks and mortar tobe prepared if someone needs an alternative.
be prepared when the world is ready for the alternative.[/font]
I'm not sure you can blame the bear market for our poor performance since the merger.
Since the Merger on November 5th, the top alts have gained an average of 68% vs. BTC
DRK - UP 225%
XRP - UP 180%
STR - UP 125%
MAID - UP 45%
LTC - DOWN 35%
NXT -DOWN 25%
DGC - DOWN 20%
PAYCOIN - Did not exist
BitShares is the worst performer in the top 10 and has lost 55-65% in BTC terms since the merger.
(Since dilution became a serious reality obviously the numbers for BitShares are even worse and we’re down 70-75% vs. BTC)
Bitcoin itself is down less 25% during that time.
Is there something you hope to accomplish by constantly blaming low market cap on past decisions? The fact is, it's impossible to know where we'd be now had things been done differently, and reversing those decisions now would just destabilize things further and create conflict.fact is nearly all coins are in a downtrend, and fact is nxt, counterparty, mastercoin, ethereum, bitcoin foundation, etc. are struggling as much if not more than we are.. fact is everyone in crypto have underestimated the cost associated with revolutionizing finance. fact is if we all go up again to 150 million, bitshares devs would be making $10k a month. fact is there is a good chance the whole space, bitcoin included, is in its deceptive phase (https://plus.google.com/+PeterHDiamandis/posts/dWQFcpcws8V). fact is even at this price things are getting done that wouldn't have been without the delegate system. fact is most of the vc cash flowing into this space is going to solutions that break with honest principles, and they will suffer from centralized control down the line, just like gox did, just like ripple did, just like the bitcoin foundation did. fact is most people don't "get it" yet, and they won't until there is a new bubble, and by then we are ready with a decentralized, sound economically viable system.almost my own thoughts. We need now to lay the bricks and mortar tobe prepared if someone needs an alternative.
be prepared when the world is ready for the alternative.[/font]
I'm not sure you can blame the bear market for our poor performance since the merger.
Since the Merger on November 5th, the top alts have gained an average of 68% vs. BTC
DRK - UP 225%
XRP - UP 180%
STR - UP 125%
MAID - UP 45%
LTC - DOWN 35%
NXT -DOWN 25%
DGC - DOWN 20%
PAYCOIN - Did not exist
BitShares is the worst performer in the top 10 and has lost 55-65% in BTC terms since the merger.
(Since dilution became a serious reality obviously the numbers for BitShares are even worse and we’re down 70-75% vs. BTC)
Bitcoin itself is down less 25% during that time.
fact is nearly all coins are in a downtrend, and fact is nxt, counterparty, mastercoin, ethereum, bitcoin foundation, etc. are struggling as much if not more than we are.. fact is everyone in crypto have underestimated the cost associated with revolutionizing finance. fact is if we all go up again to 150 million, bitshares devs would be making $10k a month. fact is there is a good chance the whole space, bitcoin included, is in its deceptive phase (https://plus.google.com/+PeterHDiamandis/posts/dWQFcpcws8V). fact is even at this price things are getting done that wouldn't have been without the delegate system. fact is most of the vc cash flowing into this space is going to solutions that break with honest principles, and they will suffer from centralized control down the line, just like gox did, just like ripple did, just like the bitcoin foundation did. fact is most people don't "get it" yet, and they won't until there is a new bubble, and by then we are ready with a decentralized, sound economically viable system.
Very painful to see if spelt out, I really don't understand why Bitshares are taking such a hit though.
... enjoy these prices while they last. These levels of market cap won't last forever.
Pay it like it's a bill that has to be paid.
Can someone give me a short sum up about the dilution and merger? I thought 5k was cheap but now I have the feeling that sub 2k might still be not the bottom.
I will appreciate any helpful input for better understanding regarding the price crash!
with only $37,000 24h volume we are 5% down... what does it mean? ( I ask the traders to interpret what means low volume with increased price volatility)
with only $37,000 24h volume we are 5% down... what does it mean? ( I ask the traders to interpret what means low volume with increased price volatility)
with only $37,000 24h volume we are 5% down... what does it mean? ( I ask the traders to interpret what means low volume with increased price volatility)
There is a fairly popular trading method that could be in play with bitshares right now...
We had a high volume low a week ago. It was the massive dumping on btc38. Often times this high volume low gets retested. If it gets retested with lower volume, that will often mean a bounce will insue after the stops under the high volume low are taken out. If we had continued high volume now I would be more worried that a medium term low is not in. But since we are seeing diminishing volume i would bet we are higher than current market price by the end of next week. Hard to say how much higher, but I would guess we will be around 18-20 million market cap.
This method has been made popular by Tom O'Brien of TFNN.
with only $37,000 24h volume we are 5% down... what does it mean? ( I ask the traders to interpret what means low volume with increased price volatility)
with only $37,000 24h volume we are 5% down... what does it mean? ( I ask the traders to interpret what means low volume with increased price volatility)
has methods like this helped you earn money before ? :P
with only $37,000 24h volume we are 5% down... what does it mean? ( I ask the traders to interpret what means low volume with increased price volatility)
It means there is very little buying support, even at these levels.
The key developers still seem very committed though and there are good developments all coming through soon. If I didn't have any BTS I would take a punt at these prices but as I've already tried to call the bottom incorrectly and lost as a result, I'm personally waiting for a significant reversal in the downtrend or evidence of actual BitAsset adoption before I buy more. (I value BTS almost exclusively on BitAsset progress and adoption.)
BitSapphire though have identified perhaps the key problem with BitAssets which is liquidity. So creative ways to address that are possibly needed.
Also if there was a use for BitAssets like buying Music, Gaming or my personal favourite Blockchain based Gambling, then we could see an uptick in BitAsset use and growth.
with only $37,000 24h volume we are 5% down... what does it mean? ( I ask the traders to interpret what means low volume with increased price volatility)
It means there is very little buying support, even at these levels.
The key developers still seem very committed though and there are good developments all coming through soon. If I didn't have any BTS I would take a punt at these prices but as I've already tried to call the bottom incorrectly and lost as a result, I'm personally waiting for a significant reversal in the downtrend or evidence of actual BitAsset adoption before I buy more. (I value BTS almost exclusively on BitAsset progress and adoption.)
BitSapphire though have identified perhaps the key problem with BitAssets which is liquidity. So creative ways to address that are possibly needed.
Also if there was a use for BitAssets like buying Music, Gaming or my personal favourite Blockchain based Gambling, then we could see an uptick in BitAsset use and growth.
The two easiest ways to add gateways to the picture is in our opinion:
- Add legal stock and bond gateways
- Add legal fiat IOU gateways
Both need easy and friction-less KYC to be legally compliant. I think adding easy KYC compliance should be the number one thing in mind of every delegate and wallet creator out there atm.
The easiest to reach potential gateways are most likely already existing equity crowdfunding websites in Europe and already existing Bitcoin ATM networks. The ATM networks especially could easily integrate by providing ATM Gateway fiat IOUs rather than do the whole buying and selling of bitUSD at the ATM. This would also be a lot more secure.
Our two cents.
rekt againYa, I dont understand this. What does Dash have that we dont?
:'( :D :'(
overtaken by some crappy coin distributed through facebook, that's so sad :(
Ya, I dont understand this. What does Dash have that we dont?
Whereas I dont have the time to list what we have that Dash does not.
Ya, I dont understand this. What does Dash have that we dont?
Not too worried about not reaching the moon. Just want to stop loosing my savings.Ya, I dont understand this. What does Dash have that we dont?
what has bitcoin,ripple,litecoin,stellar,dash and very soon doge, that we don't?
...when we find the answer maybe it is to late (if not already) :(
edit:
PS but don't complain not reaching the moon.... we have MOONSTONES indeed ;)
Not too worried about not reaching the moon. Just want to stop loosing my savings.Ya, I dont understand this. What does Dash have that we dont?
what has bitcoin,ripple,litecoin,stellar,dash and very soon doge, that we don't?
...when we find the answer maybe it is to late (if not already) :(
edit:
PS but don't complain not reaching the moon.... we have MOONSTONES indeed ;)
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/3736991/going-down-with-this-ship-o.gif)
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/3736991/going-down-with-this-ship-o.gif)
I doubt the captain is in the same boat
Not too worried about not reaching the moon. Just want to stop loosing my savings.
Not too worried about not reaching the moon. Just want to stop loosing my savings.
It's a foolish idea to put savings into a volatile currency. Use bitUSD instead if you want stability.
Not too worried about not reaching the moon. Just want to stop loosing my savings.
It's a foolish idea to put savings into a volatile currency. Use bitUSD instead if you want stability.
We're not alone guys.
Paypal now accepts Bitcoin and the prices are still crashing.
I think what you are seeing is the result of the Moonstone crowdfund in part.. there is a big sell pressure to convert to BTC.. that would impact the price pretty quick I think.
I think what you are seeing is the result of the Moonstone crowdfund in part.. there is a big sell pressure to convert to BTC.. that would impact the price pretty quick I think.
I think what you are seeing is the result of the Moonstone crowdfund in part.. there is a big sell pressure to convert to BTC.. that would impact the price pretty quick I think.
I don't buy it. They raised until now about $8000... If they raise $130000 the next couple of days I will agree with you...
But in case you are right I think the best approach from us would be to vote them in* (their 5 delegates) so the fund-raise would not be necessary ...
And if that is the case, that BTS loose so much equity on every fund-raise, why the hell we should keep BTS on our portfolio?
Either way I don't care.. just bought more BTS today and love'en the price. :)
In the last weeks the indices in china doubled on the stock exchanges, so why should they stay in crypto? they can come back later.+5%
rekt againYa, I dont understand this. What does Dash have that we dont?
:'( :D :'(
overtaken by some crappy coin distributed through facebook, that's so sad :(
Whereas I dont have the time to list what we have that Dash does not.
The killer feature bitshares is missing is credibility and trustworthiness. Changing the supply schedule is a cardinal sin and absolutely nothing has been done to legitimize it
The killer feature bitshares is missing is credibility and trustworthiness. Changing the supply schedule is a cardinal sin and absolutely nothing has been done to legitimize it
Thank you for your amazing advice! Where were you about a year ago when I needed you to assist me in my investment decisions.Not too worried about not reaching the moon. Just want to stop loosing my savings.
It's a foolish idea to put savings into a volatile currency. Use bitUSD instead if you want stability.
The killer feature bitshares is missing is credibility and trustworthiness. Changing the supply schedule is a cardinal sin and absolutely nothing has been done to legitimize it
The killer feature bitshares is missing is credibility and trustworthiness. Changing the supply schedule is a cardinal sin and absolutely nothing has been done to legitimize it
2) We have heard about potential huge deals behind the scenes but nothing yet..So what is their purpose? To discourage all the current investors so new investors can get in at ridiculously low prices? Guess what these new investors will do when their investment suddenly doubles or more... New crash all over again..
...
I think we need some Huge announcements from the Devs at this point, some serious media coverage before it is really too late! Only the Devs can stop this downfall and I think its about time they act.
The killer feature bitshares is missing is credibility and trustworthiness. Changing the supply schedule is a cardinal sin and absolutely nothing has been done to legitimize it
Devs ..... showing slow progress at GitHub just makes it look like they can't really deliver on their promises.
...
I sense a huge disconnect between the core devs and I'm just not feeling it.
I think he made it clear he doesnt believe in same things as other core members i doubt hes working on bts.. Probably helped cause the downtrend by selling his millions of bts and every bts he earns via delegate2) We have heard about potential huge deals behind the scenes but nothing yet..So what is their purpose? To discourage all the current investors so new investors can get in at ridiculously low prices? Guess what these new investors will do when their investment suddenly doubles or more... New crash all over again..
...
I think we need some Huge announcements from the Devs at this point, some serious media coverage before it is really too late! Only the Devs can stop this downfall and I think its about time they act.
That's part of the problem. Before the devs were all "guys don't worry we have huge deals brewing behind the scenes! Gonna be EPIC!" People bought into that and were just waiting for the devs to deliver. When they don't deliver, panic ensues. So if there really are these "huge deals" brewing, we need more concrete details that prove things are actually happening. Devs remaining largely silent and showing slow progress at GitHub just makes it look like they can't really deliver on their promises.The killer feature bitshares is missing is credibility and trustworthiness. Changing the supply schedule is a cardinal sin and absolutely nothing has been done to legitimize it
I hate seeing posts like this. First of all, it's impossible to directly correlate the drop in price with the change in supply. Second, the self-funding dilution could one day prove to be BTS' greatest weapon. We just don't know yet because all we're getting is speculative dumping. Third, Toast is a CORE DEV. If you feel so strongly about it why can't you talk this over with the other core devs? You have the power to shape the future of bitshares. Instead of bitching to us about how BTS is no longer trustworthy and has not legitimized its change in share supply, why can't you take this up with the other devs and come up with a CONCRETE answer to the problem together?
I sense a huge disconnect between the core devs and I'm just not feeling it.
I think he made it clear he doesnt believe in same things as other core members i doubt hes working on bts.. Probably helped cause the downtrend by selling his millions of bts and every bts he earns via delegate2) We have heard about potential huge deals behind the scenes but nothing yet..So what is their purpose? To discourage all the current investors so new investors can get in at ridiculously low prices? Guess what these new investors will do when their investment suddenly doubles or more... New crash all over again..
...
I think we need some Huge announcements from the Devs at this point, some serious media coverage before it is really too late! Only the Devs can stop this downfall and I think its about time they act.
That's part of the problem. Before the devs were all "guys don't worry we have huge deals brewing behind the scenes! Gonna be EPIC!" People bought into that and were just waiting for the devs to deliver. When they don't deliver, panic ensues. So if there really are these "huge deals" brewing, we need more concrete details that prove things are actually happening. Devs remaining largely silent and showing slow progress at GitHub just makes it look like they can't really deliver on their promises.The killer feature bitshares is missing is credibility and trustworthiness. Changing the supply schedule is a cardinal sin and absolutely nothing has been done to legitimize it
I hate seeing posts like this. First of all, it's impossible to directly correlate the drop in price with the change in supply. Second, the self-funding dilution could one day prove to be BTS' greatest weapon. We just don't know yet because all we're getting is speculative dumping. Third, Toast is a CORE DEV. If you feel so strongly about it why can't you talk this over with the other core devs? You have the power to shape the future of bitshares. Instead of bitching to us about how BTS is no longer trustworthy and has not legitimized its change in share supply, why can't you take this up with the other devs and come up with a CONCRETE answer to the problem together?
I sense a huge disconnect between the core devs and I'm just not feeling it.
2) We have heard about potential huge deals behind the scenes but nothing yet..So what is their purpose? To discourage all the current investors so new investors can get in at ridiculously low prices? Guess what these new investors will do when their investment suddenly doubles or more... New crash all over again..
...
I think we need some Huge announcements from the Devs at this point, some serious media coverage before it is really too late! Only the Devs can stop this downfall and I think its about time they act.
That's part of the problem. Before the devs were all "guys don't worry we have huge deals brewing behind the scenes! Gonna be EPIC!" People bought into that and were just waiting for the devs to deliver. When they don't deliver, panic ensues. So if there really are these "huge deals" brewing, we need more concrete details that prove things are actually happening. Devs remaining largely silent and showing slow progress at GitHub just makes it look like they can't really deliver on their promises.The killer feature bitshares is missing is credibility and trustworthiness. Changing the supply schedule is a cardinal sin and absolutely nothing has been done to legitimize it
I hate seeing posts like this. First of all, it's impossible to directly correlate the drop in price with the change in supply. Second, the self-funding dilution could one day prove to be BTS' greatest weapon. We just don't know yet because all we're getting is speculative dumping. Third, Toast is a CORE DEV. If you feel so strongly about it why can't you talk this over with the other core devs? You have the power to shape the future of bitshares. Instead of bitching to us about how BTS is no longer trustworthy and has not legitimized its change in share supply, why can't you take this up with the other devs and come up with a CONCRETE answer to the problem together?
I sense a huge disconnect between the core devs and I'm just not feeling it.
I think he made it clear he doesnt believe in same things as other core members i doubt hes working on bts.. Probably helped cause the downtrend by selling his millions of bts and every bts he earns via delegate
QuoteI think he made it clear he doesnt believe in same things as other core members i doubt hes working on bts.. Probably helped cause the downtrend by selling his millions of bts and every bts he earns via delegate
Haha, now pointing the finger at Toast? He made it clear he left BTS for Note. And if his delegate wasn't voted out, all pay would go to Valvaz.
Apparently the BTS holders thought this was a good idea, to keep the delegate in. Luckily Fuzzy and the awesome +5% gang, have decided that in times of crisis creating more 100% delegates is the solution. With the help of BM we are made to believe that the extra created BTS, doesn't have a influence on the price. This is why the price is falling, realization has set in that there will never be a fiat crisis, since QE is apparently the solution.
old trading wisdom
"if good news are not moving the price higher or bad news lower, you are probably on the end of a trend"
in our case i think in a couple of month the bearmarket in crypto is over. So you have to think which crypto will profit the most. I am on BitShares, so i will buy more.
I for one completely missed that announcement and I spend way too much time on this forum, I was under the impression you were temporarily helping out with Music, and I only saw a discussion about your second delegate, not the primary one.QuoteI think he made it clear he doesnt believe in same things as other core members i doubt hes working on bts.. Probably helped cause the downtrend by selling his millions of bts and every bts he earns via delegate
Haha, now pointing the finger at Toast? He made it clear he left BTS for Note. And if his delegate wasn't voted out, all pay would go to Valvaz.
Apparently the BTS holders thought this was a good idea, to keep the delegate in. Luckily Fuzzy and the awesome +5% gang, have decided that in times of crisis creating more 100% delegates is the solution. With the help of BM we are made to believe that the extra created BTS, doesn't have a influence on the price. This is why the price is falling, realization has set in that there will never be a fiat crisis, since QE is apparently the solution.
Thanks, I hate having to repeat this stuff. Maybe it's easier to just turn off the delegates to make it clear to people who don't hang around the forum?
Maybe you can talk a bit more indepth on the cardinal sins that bitshares committed instead of coming off as if tou were right and noone listened to you.. I wouldnt be here if it werent for the delegate system and inflation as other devs.. You will stsrt to see fruit of the labor soon as these tools will be integrated.. Would you have said that if price was rising no.. So you assume its one of the reasons it fell howver i think it makes for a buying opp because all of the work hasnt been priced in.. Nothing in crypto to compare it to..QuoteI think he made it clear he doesnt believe in same things as other core members i doubt hes working on bts.. Probably helped cause the downtrend by selling his millions of bts and every bts he earns via delegate
Haha, now pointing the finger at Toast? He made it clear he left BTS for Note. And if his delegate wasn't voted out, all pay would go to Valvaz.
Apparently the BTS holders thought this was a good idea, to keep the delegate in. Luckily Fuzzy and the awesome +5% gang, have decided that in times of crisis creating more 100% delegates is the solution. With the help of BM we are made to believe that the extra created BTS, doesn't have a influence on the price. This is why the price is falling, realization has set in that there will never be a fiat crisis, since QE is apparently the solution.
Thanks, I hate having to repeat this stuff. Maybe it's easier to just turn off the delegates to make it clear to people who don't hang around the forum?
old trading wisdom
"if good news are not moving the price higher or bad news lower, you are probably on the end of a trend"
in our case i think in a couple of month the bearmarket in crypto is over. So you have to think which crypto will profit the most. I am on BitShares, so i will buy more.
exactly. the announcement that Paypal now accepts Bitcoin should have rocketed the price up or at least slowed the bear in the crypto space, but all cryptos are still staggering.
if however a coder is a slacker, you fire him on a friday. (just ask Samir and Michael)
for the record, i bought more BTS today and will buy more tomorrow too.
Maybe you can talk a bit more indepth on the cardinal sins that bitshares committed instead of coming off as if tou were right and noone listened to you.. I wouldnt be here if it werent for the delegate system and inflation as other devs.. You will stsrt to see fruit of the labor soon as these tools will be integrated.. Would you have said that if price was rising no.. So you assume its one of the reasons it fell howver i think it makes for a buying opp because all of the work hasnt been priced in.. Nothing in crypto to compare it to..QuoteI think he made it clear he doesnt believe in same things as other core members i doubt hes working on bts.. Probably helped cause the downtrend by selling his millions of bts and every bts he earns via delegate
Haha, now pointing the finger at Toast? He made it clear he left BTS for Note. And if his delegate wasn't voted out, all pay would go to Valvaz.
Apparently the BTS holders thought this was a good idea, to keep the delegate in. Luckily Fuzzy and the awesome +5% gang, have decided that in times of crisis creating more 100% delegates is the solution. With the help of BM we are made to believe that the extra created BTS, doesn't have a influence on the price. This is why the price is falling, realization has set in that there will never be a fiat crisis, since QE is apparently the solution.
Thanks, I hate having to repeat this stuff. Maybe it's easier to just turn off the delegates to make it clear to people who don't hang around the forum?
I check the forum every single day and knew only faintly about it howver its so obvious by the tone of your posts.. Usually happens when dev leaves or has little or no stake (sold off)
to think the moonstone fundraiser is the cause --- please take a look on the charts and the downtrend is 5-6 month long.
so, we are loosing more then other 2.0 crypto projects, but we have also the biggest chinese community. In the last weeks the indices in china doubled on the stock exchanges, so
why should they stay in crypto? they can come back later.
we are pressured the most, because our chinese community is the biggest and the BTS whales are sitting in china, but we will also get pushed the most, if the bearmarket in crypto is over.
maybe you all should welcome this time and tell all your friends to buy some BTS.
realization has set in that there will never be a fiat crisis, since QE is apparently the solution.
The killer feature bitshares is missing is credibility and trustworthiness. Changing the supply schedule is a cardinal sin and absolutely nothing has been done to legitimize it
Where can we see on github how "notes" development is in progress?
PS I bet a core dev will be totally "unknown " to us...
Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 997D
I think unfortunately Bitshares is going to become really centralized...
1) I think that at these levels most of the original investors who kept their BTS at all costs are very discouraged. Of course most of them appear to have already gone and dump BTS at any price..Discouraging people and dumping their investments has the consequence few whales to buy them and results in centralization of shares...
2) We have heard about potential huge deals behind the scenes but nothing yet..So what is their purpose? To discourage all the current investors so new investors can get in at ridiculously low prices? Guess what these new investors will do when their investment suddenly doubles or more... New crash all over again..
3) It looks to me that BTS had just 1 pump and then got dumped...We appear to be no different from any altcoin out there..Confidence gets destroyed day by day...
Unless you guys stop dumping your holdings NOW then BTS will become worthless very very soon and no matter what happens in the future, no matter the development, the progress and all the nice things that BTS could become no one is going to care...
I think we need some Huge announcements from the Devs at this point, some serious media coverage before it is really too late! Only the Devs can stop this downfall and I think its about time they act.
I apologize for the tone of this post. I know many people and especially the Devs are doing whatever they can. I believe that this community has many honest people that want BTS to succeed but we are getting hammered day by day..So please Devs just do something about this..
I think we need some Huge announcements from the Devs at this point, some serious media coverage before it is really too late! Only the Devs can stop this downfall and I think its about time they act.
I think we need some Huge announcements from the Devs at this point, some serious media coverage before it is really too late! Only the Devs can stop this downfall and I think its about time they act.
They act?
The video footage of them coding like maniacs is about to be released thanx to the BitShares Peer to Peer Tour that is just now coming to an end. I just heard the mumble from their roadtrip, their visit with the Devs along the way, their interview on Let's Talk Bitcoin in Nashville.......
They're workin Mad Hours.
Maybe you can help us out a bit (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,15715.0.html) ??
Shots from their journey: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,14865.0.html
Maybe you can talk a bit more indepth on the cardinal sins that bitshares committed instead of coming off as if tou were right and noone listened to you.. I wouldnt be here if it werent for the delegate system and inflation as other devs.. You will stsrt to see fruit of the labor soon as these tools will be integrated.. Would you have said that if price was rising no.. So you assume its one of the reasons it fell howver i think it makes for a buying opp because all of the work hasnt been priced in.. Nothing in crypto to compare it to..QuoteI think he made it clear he doesnt believe in same things as other core members i doubt hes working on bts.. Probably helped cause the downtrend by selling his millions of bts and every bts he earns via delegate
Haha, now pointing the finger at Toast? He made it clear he left BTS for Note. And if his delegate wasn't voted out, all pay would go to Valvaz.
Apparently the BTS holders thought this was a good idea, to keep the delegate in. Luckily Fuzzy and the awesome +5% gang, have decided that in times of crisis creating more 100% delegates is the solution. With the help of BM we are made to believe that the extra created BTS, doesn't have a influence on the price. This is why the price is falling, realization has set in that there will never be a fiat crisis, since QE is apparently the solution.
Thanks, I hate having to repeat this stuff. Maybe it's easier to just turn off the delegates to make it clear to people who don't hang around the forum?
I check the forum every single day and knew only faintly about it howver its so obvious by the tone of your posts.. Usually happens when dev leaves or has little or no stake (sold off)
Almost two months... this page has the discussion about it https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,14379.msg187335.html#msg187335
They prob left it to him.. And we know the resullt of thatMaybe you can talk a bit more indepth on the cardinal sins that bitshares committed instead of coming off as if tou were right and noone listened to you.. I wouldnt be here if it werent for the delegate system and inflation as other devs.. You will stsrt to see fruit of the labor soon as these tools will be integrated.. Would you have said that if price was rising no.. So you assume its one of the reasons it fell howver i think it makes for a buying opp because all of the work hasnt been priced in.. Nothing in crypto to compare it to..QuoteI think he made it clear he doesnt believe in same things as other core members i doubt hes working on bts.. Probably helped cause the downtrend by selling his millions of bts and every bts he earns via delegate
Haha, now pointing the finger at Toast? He made it clear he left BTS for Note. And if his delegate wasn't voted out, all pay would go to Valvaz.
Apparently the BTS holders thought this was a good idea, to keep the delegate in. Luckily Fuzzy and the awesome +5% gang, have decided that in times of crisis creating more 100% delegates is the solution. With the help of BM we are made to believe that the extra created BTS, doesn't have a influence on the price. This is why the price is falling, realization has set in that there will never be a fiat crisis, since QE is apparently the solution.
Thanks, I hate having to repeat this stuff. Maybe it's easier to just turn off the delegates to make it clear to people who don't hang around the forum?
I check the forum every single day and knew only faintly about it howver its so obvious by the tone of your posts.. Usually happens when dev leaves or has little or no stake (sold off)
Almost two months... this page has the discussion about it https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,14379.msg187335.html#msg187335
Thanks for pointing out the thread which indicates toast has left for Notes for good. Strange that there is no formal announcement of it and it was being mentioned as a by-the-way reply-post in a 'random discussion' thread. I suppose the the core team finds no value in giving a formal announcement to the community.
Maybe you can talk a bit more indepth on the cardinal sins that bitshares committed instead of coming off as if tou were right and noone listened to you.. I wouldnt be here if it werent for the delegate system and inflation as other devs.. You will stsrt to see fruit of the labor soon as these tools will be integrated.. Would you have said that if price was rising no.. So you assume its one of the reasons it fell howver i think it makes for a buying opp because all of the work hasnt been priced in.. Nothing in crypto to compare it to..QuoteI think he made it clear he doesnt believe in same things as other core members i doubt hes working on bts.. Probably helped cause the downtrend by selling his millions of bts and every bts he earns via delegate
Haha, now pointing the finger at Toast? He made it clear he left BTS for Note. And if his delegate wasn't voted out, all pay would go to Valvaz.
Apparently the BTS holders thought this was a good idea, to keep the delegate in. Luckily Fuzzy and the awesome +5% gang, have decided that in times of crisis creating more 100% delegates is the solution. With the help of BM we are made to believe that the extra created BTS, doesn't have a influence on the price. This is why the price is falling, realization has set in that there will never be a fiat crisis, since QE is apparently the solution.
Thanks, I hate having to repeat this stuff. Maybe it's easier to just turn off the delegates to make it clear to people who don't hang around the forum?
I check the forum every single day and knew only faintly about it howver its so obvious by the tone of your posts.. Usually happens when dev leaves or has little or no stake (sold off)
Almost two months... this page has the discussion about it https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,14379.msg187335.html#msg187335
Thanks for pointing out the thread which indicates toast has left for Notes for good. Strange that there is no formal announcement of it and it was being mentioned as a by-the-way reply-post in a 'random discussion' thread. I suppose the the core team finds no value in giving a formal announcement to the community.
BTS suffers from many problems, past and present and though there are good developments in the pipeline which give BTS a lot of potential, none of them gave me a great deal of certainty that BitAsset use and adoption would increase drastically. Over the last few months I sold over 90%+ of my BTS and was waiting for a significant reversal in either share price or BitAsset adoption before I would consider buying again.
However BitAssets3.0 has completely altered my expectations. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,15775.0.html
These changes or some ultimate variation of them make BitAsset use far more attractive to longs and also to shorts too and I think will largely address BitAssets core problem of liquidity.
I will personally use BitAssets in fairly large quantities, even at the current stage of development. I also anticipate others will do the same.
I think we're going to see a sharp uptick in BitAsset use from existing BTS shareholders & others once these changes are introduced.
The increased BitAsset CAP's and adoption trend should quickly translate into a much higher valuation for BTS. So I've been buying at these prices even though it could still dip further.