BitShares Forum

Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: Stan on January 08, 2014, 10:00:22 pm

Title: The BitShares Brand
Post by: Stan on January 08, 2014, 10:00:22 pm
(http://the-iland.net/static/images/BitSharesFinalTM.jpg)

BitShares    - Reimagine Everything
Keyhotee    - Own your Identity
PTS            - Trade future BitShares
AGS           - Build future BitShares
BitShares X - Save & Exchange Anything

Another Idea:
BitShares X - Earn 5% or MORE on ANYTHING

Now that our momentum is building and we have an active marketing arm, it’s time to think seriously about branding.  We need an umbrella brand in which to invest our marketing efforts so that we don’t water them down with too many sub-brands.  Given the number of DACs we envision, that could certainly happen if we start advertising ProtoShares and AngelShares and BitShares and DomainShares and LuckyShares and, um, DogeShares etc.

We need to market all these products under one brand that everyone recognizes.  Like Microsoft Word, Microsoft Excel, Microsoft Windows, etc.

Our Invictus brand is focused on our role as a trustworthy partner known as a behind-the-scenes innovator and even-handed community developer.  But we need a more highly visible brand for our whole crypto-equity ecosystem.  A brand not for who we are but for what we are building. A brand with Satoshi-like immunity from the risks of association with a flesh and blood company. One Brand to find them all with a single Google search.

We have decided to dedicate our established BitSharesTM brand to the cause.  It is already getting a lot of attention and it has a nice parallelism with Bitcoin, which in the public mind has become virtually synonymous with the crypto-currency ecosystem, including all its altcoins.  We hope that BitShares will serve a similar function for the crypto-equity domain.

What does this mean for our existing projects?  Well, BitShares already applies to a whole family of our exchange DACs.  Now it applies to them all.  For example.

•   BitShares PTS is our brand of proto shares honoring industry miners.
•   BitShares AGS is our brand of angel shares honoring industry patrons.
•   BitShares BEX is our flagship brand for our first Bank and EXchange DAC.
•   BitShares CEX is our brand for our first Commodities EXchange.
•   BitShares LKS is our brand for LuckyShares – robotically honest gaming.
•   BitShares DMS is our brand for DomainShares – an IP address registry.

Keyhotee is not a crypto-equity and therefore has its own privacy-oriented brand.

We could use everyone’s help in starting to use these new names in all our dialogs, documents, graphics, and web sites. 
 
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: bitbro on January 08, 2014, 10:06:14 pm
Great thinking. I gotta get me some more BitShares PTS before this news gets out!


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Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: barwizi on January 08, 2014, 10:22:17 pm
Call me a radical or whatever, but we need to actually go in the opposite direction first. To market something , to Brand something, we have to make it known, to make it known we have to know it ourselves. We do that by defining it. We have an understanding of what cryptos are, how PTS works and the like, but really, we need to find a way to speak to the world and define this new thing called a DAC. Everyone worries about the volatility of BTC, while we currently rely on it, DACs have the possiblity of devising a new marker for value. Putting this out into the world may very well bring value because most of the crypto -newcomers do not wish to spend their days on trade sites watching for crashes. They want to buy, sit then cash out later. Let's define, then market the idea of investing in a DAC via crypto, and show the endless possibility of profit and growth of investments.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: Shentist on January 08, 2014, 10:30:03 pm
i don't get it and which brand we invest with the first round of protoshares and angelshares? bitshares BEX?
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: 5chdn on January 08, 2014, 10:46:18 pm
Great thinking. I gotta get me some more BitShares PTS before this news gets out!
+1

I just exchanged all my PTS for BitShares PTSTM at the rate 1:1!
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: toast on January 08, 2014, 11:05:50 pm
This would really confuse me.

Usually it's <company name> <product name>.

BitShares PTS implies protoshares are a sub-thing of bitshares. But really "BitShares PTS" are also used to redeem shares in future DACs that have nothing to do with bitshares. I would honestly see it as a marketing gimmick after I stopped being confused (same reaction as when I learned the true meanings of "Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics" or "Megacoin").

The only thing that makes sense is to name different BitShares chains with sub-name. So BitShares BEX and BitShares CEX are fine.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: bitbro on January 08, 2014, 11:22:55 pm
I say lather it up and slap it on everything.  BitShares babay!


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Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: bitbro on January 08, 2014, 11:25:10 pm
Stan,

Is "BitShares" more akin to "Apple" or "Mac"?


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Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: bytemaster on January 08, 2014, 11:58:37 pm
BitShares implies any DAC that has Shares and covers the entire concept of DACs.   

BitShares Bank & Exchange is what everyone has associated with BitShares.

BitShares BEX from Invictus Innovations or the Invictus BitShares BEX.     

Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: Stan on January 08, 2014, 11:59:51 pm
Stan,

Is "BitShares" more akin to "Apple" or "Mac"?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

BitShares ~ Mac
Invictus ~ Apple

Except that BitShares could apply to sponsored/endorsed 3rd Party DACs that honor PTS and AGS.
Maybe its more like

BitShares ~ Linux

or put another way:

Apple      >   Mac
Invictus   <   BitShares

(My apologies to mathematicians for comparing apples and oranges.)
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: onceuponatime on January 09, 2014, 02:11:48 am
I didn't experience any confusion at all upon reading Stan's opening post. On the contrary, it made eminent sense. I hope that it is rapidly adopted as it will aid me in explaining the ecosystem to others.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: rysgc on January 09, 2014, 02:44:23 am
I love to see all terms and names unified there can be no confusion about what's what. But isn't this a better hierarchy/naming convention? I think at least with outside communication it better be spelled out completely and use the short writing (BITS-PTS) in internal/tech community shoutings?

Invictus Innovations
   DAC's
      Bitshares family
         Protoshares 
         Angelshares
         Domainshares
         etc.
   Keyhotee

Also when decisions are made I think it's a good idea to setup a press section or something where people can find all logo's, information, videos in one place. 


[edit]BitSharesTM looks really nice though [/edit]
         
     
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: Stan on January 09, 2014, 03:09:37 am
I love to see all terms and names unified there can be no confusion about what's what. But isn't this a better hierarchy/naming convention? I think at least with outside communication it better be spelled out completely and use the short writing (BITS-PTS) in internal/tech community shoutings?

Invictus Innovations
   DAC's
      Bitshares family
         Protoshares 
         Angelshares
         Domainshares
         etc.
   Keyhotee


[edit]BitSharesTM looks really nice though [/edit]
         
   

There will still be additional DAC-specific brands.   
BitShares LKS, DAC doing business as the Lucky Robot Casino or something.
I doubt that gaming customers and gaming investors will respond to the same branding.
This is mostly about how all these DACs should show up on exchanges and in the top 10 on coinmarketcap.com.

Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: rysgc on January 09, 2014, 03:21:25 am
I love to see all terms and names unified there can be no confusion about what's what. But isn't this a better hierarchy/naming convention? I think at least with outside communication it better be spelled out completely and use the short writing (BITS-PTS) in internal/tech community shoutings?

Invictus Innovations
   DAC's
      Bitshares family
         Protoshares 
         Angelshares
         Domainshares
         etc.
   Keyhotee


[edit]BitSharesTM looks really nice though [/edit]
         
   

There will still be additional DAC-specific brands.   
BitShares LKS, DAC doing business as the Lucky Robot Casino or something.
I doubt that gaming customers and gaming investors will respond to the same branding.
This is mostly about how all these DACs should show up on exchanges and in the top 10 on coinmarketcap.com.

Ok got it, makes sense indeed.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: toast on January 09, 2014, 04:20:44 am
Invictus Innovations
   DAC's
      Bitshares family
         Protoshares 
         Angelshares
         Domainshares
         etc.
   Keyhotee   

Again, why are protoshares and angelshares under bitshares, when they will also be involved with *totally unrelated* DACs?
"Because marketing" is not sufficient.

Seems to me it should be more like:

I3
   DACs
      BitShares
         BitShares BEX
         BitShares CEX
      ProtoShares
      AngelShares
      DomainShares
   Keyhotee

Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: onceuponatime on January 09, 2014, 04:38:34 am
Invictus Innovations
   DAC's
      Bitshares family
         Protoshares 
         Angelshares
         Domainshares
         etc.
   Keyhotee   

Again, why are protoshares and angelshares under bitshares, when they will also be involved with *totally unrelated* DACs?
"Because marketing" is not sufficient.

Seems to me it should be more like:

I3
   DACs
      BitShares
         BitShares BEX
         BitShares CEX
      ProtoShares
      AngelShares
      DomainShares
   Keyhotee

They will NOT be involved with *totallu unrelated* DACS.  They don't come into play except with Bitshares social consensus compliant DACS.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: sschechter on January 09, 2014, 04:45:47 am
From a legal standpoint, wouldn't you want to avoid calling Bitshares BEX a bank?  Seems like that would be a fast way to draw the attention of regulators.  I'd prefer for them to think of what we're doing as a goofy experiment instead.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: Stan on January 09, 2014, 05:02:56 am
From a legal standpoint, wouldn't you want to avoid calling Bitshares BEX a bank?  Seems like that would be a fast way to draw the attention of regulators.  I'd prefer for them to think of what we're doing as a goofy experiment instead.

Yes, but to reach customers on the scale we need to change the world, the masses of ordinary people have to be convinced what we are offering is better than a Swiss Bank of the last century - more secure and more private - and immune to all the outrages that today's banking system is about to unleash on the little guy.  The little guy isn't much interested in putting his paycheck into a goofy experiment.    :)

Either DACs can find away to operate safely in the international waters of Free Space, or they can't.  We have to face that and adapt to early failures until we find the right recipe for freedom.

That's why we must engineer a decentralized community that produces an incorruptible decentralized solution without requiring anyone to violate the laws of their home jurisdiction.  That's what this month's newsletter was all about.

...and that's what makes all of this so darn much fun!

 ;D
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: sschechter on January 09, 2014, 06:56:49 am
Either way I'm coming for the ride.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: luckybit on January 09, 2014, 11:58:38 am
The BitSharesTM Brand

Now that our momentum is building and we have an active marketing arm, it’s time to think seriously about branding.  We need an umbrella brand in which to invest our marketing efforts so that we don’t water them down with too many sub-brands.  Given the number of DACs we envision, that could certainly happen if we start advertising ProtoShares and AngelShares and BitShares and DomainShares and LuckyShares and, um, DogeShares etc.

We need to market all these products under one brand that everyone recognizes.  Like Microsoft Word, Microsoft Excel, Microsoft Windows, etc.

Our Invictus brand is focused on our role as a trustworthy partner known as a behind-the-scenes innovator and even-handed community developer.  But we need a more highly visible brand for our whole crypto-equity ecosystem.  A brand not for who we are but for what we are building. A brand with Satoshi-like immunity from the risks of association with a flesh and blood company. One Brand to find them all with a single Google search.

We have decided to dedicate our established BitSharesTM brand to the cause.  It is already getting a lot of attention and it has a nice parallelism with Bitcoin, which in the public mind has become virtually synonymous with the crypto-currency ecosystem, including all its altcoins.  We hope that BitShares will serve a similar function for the crypto-equity domain.

What does this mean for our existing projects?  Well, BitShares already applies to a whole family of our exchange DACs.  Now it applies to them all.  For example.

•   BitShares PTS is our brand of proto shares honoring industry miners.
•   BitShares AGS is our brand of angel shares honoring industry patrons.
•   BitShares BEX is our flagship brand for our first Bank and EXchange DAC.
•   BitShares CEX is our brand for our first Commodities EXchange.
•   BitShares LKS is our brand for LuckyShares – robotically honest gaming.
•   BitShares DMS is our brand for DomainShares – an IP address registry.

Keyhotee is not a crypto-equity and therefore has its own privacy-oriented brand.

We could use everyone’s help in starting to use these new names in all our dialogs, documents, graphics, and web sites. 
 


Why not use the 3I brand? It markets everything 3I creates.

Bitshares is just a protocol.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: luckybit on January 09, 2014, 12:01:59 pm
Call me a radical or whatever, but we need to actually go in the opposite direction first. To market something , to Brand something, we have to make it known, to make it known we have to know it ourselves. We do that by defining it. We have an understanding of what cryptos are, how PTS works and the like, but really, we need to find a way to speak to the world and define this new thing called a DAC. Everyone worries about the volatility of BTC, while we currently rely on it, DACs have the possiblity of devising a new marker for value. Putting this out into the world may very well bring value because most of the crypto -newcomers do not wish to spend their days on trade sites watching for crashes. They want to buy, sit then cash out later. Let's define, then market the idea of investing in a DAC via crypto, and show the endless possibility of profit and growth of investments.

I agree with this. Bitshares is not a product, it's a protocol. It should be explained but it's more like inventing one of the first search engines. First you have to explain what a search engine is before you can call yourself Google or Yahoo or Excite.

Stan,

Is "BitShares" more akin to "Apple" or "Mac"?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

BitShares ~ Mac
Invictus ~ Apple

Except that BitShares could apply to sponsored/endorsed 3rd Party DACs that honor PTS and AGS.
Maybe its more like

BitShares ~ Linux

or put another way:

Apple      >   Mac
Invictus   <   BitShares

(My apologies to mathematicians for comparing apples and oranges.)

The problem with the constant comparisons to Apple is, does I3 share the same values as Apple?
Apple right now has a terrible reputation internationally but a very good reputation in the USA.

Apple is distrusted, and doesn't really seem to value privacy at all. They are good at marketing and setting trends, but there are a lot of values which go directly against the values of I3. For example Apple is closed source, uses customer lock ins, and does not really seem to respect the user. Google on the other hand is about flexibility, respects the user more, and tries to make all it's apps free.

What does I3 stand for and how can I3 show it's values through it's marketing? When we hear about Bitshares we should instantly know what the values behind it are and learn to appreciate those values.

Apple markets itself on being cool. That is good when you're first. iPhone was first, iPad was first, iTunes was first, so being cool is all it would take to sell. But if you look closely the iPhone lost to the Android, the iPad lost to the Nexus, iTunes is beginning to lose it's dominance to Amazon, because to maintain long term dominance you have to be committed to sustainable principles which can last and being cool and having buzz in my opinion only lasts a few years.

I think Invictus Innovations could focus on the one area which it's ahead of everyone else and that is at innovation. I3 has some of the best new concepts and ideas, and if the brand I3 comes to be recognized as the source of innovation in this space and their products are recognized as being on the cutting edge then people will gravitate toward it. Invictus wont always have first mover advantage but if the concepts like the DAC and transaction based Proof of Stake catch on then all of this goes to the list of innovations.

I think I3 should be compared to Bell Labs, not Apple.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: Stan on January 09, 2014, 02:35:38 pm
Call me a radical or whatever, but we need to actually go in the opposite direction first. To market something , to Brand something, we have to make it known, to make it known we have to know it ourselves. We do that by defining it. We have an understanding of what cryptos are, how PTS works and the like, but really, we need to find a way to speak to the world and define this new thing called a DAC. Everyone worries about the volatility of BTC, while we currently rely on it, DACs have the possiblity of devising a new marker for value. Putting this out into the world may very well bring value because most of the crypto -newcomers do not wish to spend their days on trade sites watching for crashes. They want to buy, sit then cash out later. Let's define, then market the idea of investing in a DAC via crypto, and show the endless possibility of profit and growth of investments.

I agree with this. Bitshares is not a product, it's a protocol. It should be explained but it's more like inventing one of the first search engines. First you have to explain what a search engine is before you can call yourself Google or Yahoo or Excite.

Stan,

Is "BitShares" more akin to "Apple" or "Mac"?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

BitShares ~ Mac
Invictus ~ Apple

Except that BitShares could apply to sponsored/endorsed 3rd Party DACs that honor PTS and AGS.
Maybe its more like

BitShares ~ Linux

or put another way:

Apple      >   Mac
Invictus   <   BitShares

(My apologies to mathematicians for comparing apples and oranges.)

The problem with the constant comparisons to Apple is, does I3 share the same values as Apple?
Apple right now has a terrible reputation internationally but a very good reputation in the USA.

Apple is distrusted, and doesn't really seem to value privacy at all. They are good at marketing and setting trends, but there are a lot of values which go directly against the values of I3. For example Apple is closed source, uses customer lock ins, and does not really seem to respect the user. Google on the other hand is about flexibility, respects the user more, and tries to make all it's apps free.

What does I3 stand for and how can I3 show it's values through it's marketing? When we hear about Bitshares we should instantly know what the values behind it are and learn to appreciate those values.

Apple markets itself on being cool. That is good when you're first. iPhone was first, iPad was first, iTunes was first, so being cool is all it would take to sell. But if you look closely the iPhone lost to the Android, the iPad lost to the Nexus, iTunes is beginning to lose it's dominance to Amazon, because to maintain long term dominance you have to be committed to sustainable principles which can last and being cool and having buzz in my opinion only lasts a few years.

I think Invictus Innovations could focus on the one area which it's ahead of everyone else and that is at innovation. I3 has some of the best new concepts and ideas, and if the brand I3 comes to be recognized as the source of innovation in this space and their products are recognized as being on the cutting edge then people will gravitate toward it. Invictus wont always have first mover advantage but if the concepts like the DAC and transaction based Proof of Stake catch on then all of this goes to the list of innovations.

I think I3 should be compared to Bell Labs, not Apple.

I used Apple because that's how the question was put to us.
It was a comparison of taxonomy relationships not values.
But you are right, we need to make sure the BitShares brand reflects our oft-stated principles.

Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: Stan on January 09, 2014, 02:48:24 pm
The BitSharesTM Brand

Now that our momentum is building and we have an active marketing arm, it’s time to think seriously about branding.  We need an umbrella brand in which to invest our marketing efforts so that we don’t water them down with too many sub-brands.  Given the number of DACs we envision, that could certainly happen if we start advertising ProtoShares and AngelShares and BitShares and DomainShares and LuckyShares and, um, DogeShares etc.

We need to market all these products under one brand that everyone recognizes.  Like Microsoft Word, Microsoft Excel, Microsoft Windows, etc.

Our Invictus brand is focused on our role as a trustworthy partner known as a behind-the-scenes innovator and even-handed community developer.  But we need a more highly visible brand for our whole crypto-equity ecosystem.  A brand not for who we are but for what we are building. A brand with Satoshi-like immunity from the risks of association with a flesh and blood company. One Brand to find them all with a single Google search.

We have decided to dedicate our established BitSharesTM brand to the cause.  It is already getting a lot of attention and it has a nice parallelism with Bitcoin, which in the public mind has become virtually synonymous with the crypto-currency ecosystem, including all its altcoins.  We hope that BitShares will serve a similar function for the crypto-equity domain.

What does this mean for our existing projects?  Well, BitShares already applies to a whole family of our exchange DACs.  Now it applies to them all.  For example.

•   BitShares PTS is our brand of proto shares honoring industry miners.
•   BitShares AGS is our brand of angel shares honoring industry patrons.
•   BitShares BEX is our flagship brand for our first Bank and EXchange DAC.
•   BitShares CEX is our brand for our first Commodities EXchange.
•   BitShares LKS is our brand for LuckyShares – robotically honest gaming.
•   BitShares DMS is our brand for DomainShares – an IP address registry.

Keyhotee is not a crypto-equity and therefore has its own privacy-oriented brand.

We could use everyone’s help in starting to use these new names in all our dialogs, documents, graphics, and web sites. 
 


Why not use the 3I brand? It markets everything 3I creates.

Bitshares is just a protocol.

BitShares is a brand.
BitShares has a protocol.

Invictus is a company bootstrapping an industry of manned and unmanned companies.
BitShares is a product line spanning that industry.

BitShares helps all our companies inherit a common recognition and increases our market footprint.
It causes all our unmanned companies to appear together in any alphabetized list of crypto-equities.
It lets you find them all with one Googled word.  Search for one, find all the rest.
 :)
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: luckybit on January 09, 2014, 03:13:57 pm
The BitSharesTM Brand

Now that our momentum is building and we have an active marketing arm, it’s time to think seriously about branding.  We need an umbrella brand in which to invest our marketing efforts so that we don’t water them down with too many sub-brands.  Given the number of DACs we envision, that could certainly happen if we start advertising ProtoShares and AngelShares and BitShares and DomainShares and LuckyShares and, um, DogeShares etc.

We need to market all these products under one brand that everyone recognizes.  Like Microsoft Word, Microsoft Excel, Microsoft Windows, etc.

Our Invictus brand is focused on our role as a trustworthy partner known as a behind-the-scenes innovator and even-handed community developer.  But we need a more highly visible brand for our whole crypto-equity ecosystem.  A brand not for who we are but for what we are building. A brand with Satoshi-like immunity from the risks of association with a flesh and blood company. One Brand to find them all with a single Google search.

We have decided to dedicate our established BitSharesTM brand to the cause.  It is already getting a lot of attention and it has a nice parallelism with Bitcoin, which in the public mind has become virtually synonymous with the crypto-currency ecosystem, including all its altcoins.  We hope that BitShares will serve a similar function for the crypto-equity domain.

What does this mean for our existing projects?  Well, BitShares already applies to a whole family of our exchange DACs.  Now it applies to them all.  For example.

•   BitShares PTS is our brand of proto shares honoring industry miners.
•   BitShares AGS is our brand of angel shares honoring industry patrons.
•   BitShares BEX is our flagship brand for our first Bank and EXchange DAC.
•   BitShares CEX is our brand for our first Commodities EXchange.
•   BitShares LKS is our brand for LuckyShares – robotically honest gaming.
•   BitShares DMS is our brand for DomainShares – an IP address registry.

Keyhotee is not a crypto-equity and therefore has its own privacy-oriented brand.

We could use everyone’s help in starting to use these new names in all our dialogs, documents, graphics, and web sites. 
 


Why not use the 3I brand? It markets everything 3I creates.

Bitshares is just a protocol.

BitShares is a brand.
BitShares has a protocol.

Invictus is a company bootstrapping an industry of manned and unmanned companies.
BitShares is a product line spanning that industry.

BitShares helps all our companies inherit a common recognition and increases our market footprint.
It causes all our unmanned companies to appear together in any alphabetized list of crypto-equities.
It lets you find them all with one Googled word.  Search for one, find all the rest.
 :)


Aha, I see what you're trying to do now. I guess I have to accept the fact that most people will think of Bitshares and Bitcoin as a sort of product. Sort of like how Apple leverages the (i) for iTunes, iPad, iPhone, iMac, and so on or how Microsoft used to leverage it as 95, 98, 2000, and so on.

If Bitshares is a brand how do we keep track of which version we are on? Will it be Bitshares 2014 edition or will it be Bitshares 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 and so on? I guess I will find out.

I hope the marketing plan is a success because it has the potential to make Bitshares become worth a lot.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: santaclause102 on January 09, 2014, 06:07:55 pm
Invictus Innovations
   DAC's
      Bitshares family
         Protoshares 
         Angelshares
         Domainshares
         etc.
   Keyhotee   

Again, why are protoshares and angelshares under bitshares, when they will also be involved with *totally unrelated* DACs?
"Because marketing" is not sufficient.

Seems to me it should be more like:

I3
   DACs
      BitShares
         BitShares BEX
         BitShares CEX
      ProtoShares
      AngelShares
      DomainShares
   Keyhotee

I also perceived the structure like this.

The problem I would have with the proposal would be that Bitshares would be an umbrella brand as well as a specific DAC. That could be confusing.

Up to now Bitshares was always presented as the crypto currency for option trading. Would that be BEX / CEX in your scheme instead?

I see your need for an umbrella brand and the worries that it could be confused with a flesh and blood company! But consider that anybody that sees a common branding for all I3 DACs (like the suggested Bitshares branding) will ask what do they all have in common and why is there a common branding? And the answer is I3 as the developer / issuer. So the bitshares branding would just disguise this. Either way people will know that any DAC has to have been created by people. And the fact that there is a company where you know who is in charge behind Protoshares was the one thing that made you stand out and made me attracted to PTS. I though I3 combines the advantages of ripple (being able to deal with legal authorities and a decreased possibility of running into a scam put up by someone anonymous) and the most coins/dacs (open source dev).
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: toast on January 09, 2014, 07:28:18 pm
I really want Stan and also the marketing director to at least acknowledge that what they are saying is that this:

Invictus Innovations
   DAC's
      Bitshares family
         Protoshares 
         Angelshares
         Domainshares
         etc.
   Keyhotee   


is, from their perspective, a more natural/clear taxonomy than this:


I3
   DACs
      BitShares
         BitShares BEX
         BitShares CEX
      ProtoShares
      AngelShares
      DomainShares
   Keyhotee



If you guys at I3 really think of things this way, that's fine and I just have a bad mental model.
If you're trying to fit them into the new scheme just for the sake of marketing, that is gimmicky and people will see that.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: Stan on January 09, 2014, 08:22:37 pm
Invictus Innovations
   DAC's
      Bitshares family
         Protoshares 
         Angelshares
         Domainshares
         etc.
   Keyhotee   

Again, why are protoshares and angelshares under bitshares, when they will also be involved with *totally unrelated* DACs?
"Because marketing" is not sufficient.

Seems to me it should be more like:

I3
   DACs
      BitShares
         BitShares BEX
         BitShares CEX
      ProtoShares
      AngelShares
      DomainShares
   Keyhotee

I also perceived the structure like this.

The problem I would have with the proposal would be that Bitshares would be an umbrella brand as well as a specific DAC. That could be confusing.

Up to now Bitshares was always presented as the crypto currency for option trading. Would that be BEX / CEX in your scheme instead?

I see your need for an umbrella brand and the worries that it could be confused with a flesh and blood company! But consider that anybody that sees a common branding for all I3 DACs (like the suggested Bitshares branding) will ask what do they all have in common and why is there a common branding? And the answer is I3 as the developer / issuer. So the bitshares branding would just disguise this.

That structure has been our thinking, you are correct.  Now BitShares has received a promotion.

This is for one very simple reason:  bit-shares is the perfect parallel to bit-coin for communicating the duality (and differences) and between crypto-equities and crypto-currencies.  No other name would do for that purpose.

And BitShares can also apply to endorsed 3rd-party DACs so we wanted to avoid asking other companies to operate under the Invictus brand.  BitShares will be bigger than just Invictus.

BitShares BEX will meet the original expectations of BitShares.  Then the BitShares brand will grow, as long planned, to multiple BitShares exchange chains. Each of these will need a name extension anyway.  Then it will grow to mean any endorsed chain that honors the social consensus.

Like Amazon is no longer thought of first and foremost as a book store, so shall the public perception of BitShares grow in stature as every new success and promotion grows its recognition as the brand for incorruptible unmanned companies with robotically reliable integrity.

Once that brand is established in the public's mind, there will be even more reason for 3rd party developers to honor the PTS and AGS contribution to founding the BitShares franchise.

This is a major stratagem for driving the value for all shareholders to new heights... as promised.

Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: toast on January 09, 2014, 08:52:11 pm
Alright that's a bit more clear, but I'm still concerned about overloading the "BitShares" term. I think you should take some care to establish what sorts of crypto-equities should fall under the "BitShares" umbrella and which shouldn't.

My opinion is that BitShares should only apply to cryptoequity in systems that behave "close enough" to how BitShares BEX does.

Perhaps a good criterion is if the system 1) honors AGS and PTS and 2) implements cross-chain trading with existing BitShares chains. Then DomainShares and possibly ProtoShares (with a soft fork) could be called BTS DNS and BTS PTS, but angelshares shouldn't be called BTS AGS.


Basically imagine how many times you'll have to reply to someone who says "WTB BTS AGS for BTS BEX" with, "actually, BTS AGS is not part of the BitShares chain groups and is not a tradeable. Read more about how all the different BTS DACs behave here"
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: santaclause102 on January 09, 2014, 09:31:11 pm
Invictus Innovations
   DAC's
      Bitshares family
         Protoshares 
         Angelshares
         Domainshares
         etc.
   Keyhotee   

Again, why are protoshares and angelshares under bitshares, when they will also be involved with *totally unrelated* DACs?
"Because marketing" is not sufficient.

Seems to me it should be more like:

I3
   DACs
      BitShares
         BitShares BEX
         BitShares CEX
      ProtoShares
      AngelShares
      DomainShares
   Keyhotee

I also perceived the structure like this.

The problem I would have with the proposal would be that Bitshares would be an umbrella brand as well as a specific DAC. That could be confusing.

Up to now Bitshares was always presented as the crypto currency for option trading. Would that be BEX / CEX in your scheme instead?

I see your need for an umbrella brand and the worries that it could be confused with a flesh and blood company! But consider that anybody that sees a common branding for all I3 DACs (like the suggested Bitshares branding) will ask what do they all have in common and why is there a common branding? And the answer is I3 as the developer / issuer. So the bitshares branding would just disguise this.

That structure has been our thinking, you are correct.  Now BitShares has received a promotion.

This is for one very simple reason:  bit-shares is the perfect parallel to bit-coin for communicating the duality (and differences) and between crypto-equities and crypto-currencies.  No other name would do for that purpose.

And BitShares can also apply to endorsed 3rd-party DACs so we wanted to avoid asking other companies to operate under the Invictus brand.  BitShares will be bigger than just Invictus.

BitShares BEX will meet the original expectations of BitShares.  Then the BitShares brand will grow, as long planned, to multiple BitShares exchange chains. Each of these will need a name extension anyway.  Then it will grow to mean any endorsed chain that honors the social consensus.

Like Amazon is no longer thought of first and foremost as a book store, so shall the public perception of BitShares grow in stature as every new success and promotion grows its recognition as the brand for incorruptible unmanned companies with robotically reliable integrity.

Once that brand is established in the public's mind, there will be even more reason for 3rd party developers to honor the PTS and AGS contribution to founding the BitShares franchise.

This is a major stratagem for driving the value for all shareholders to new heights... as promised.

Ok. That that makes a lot of sense given that you want to "avoid asking other companies to operate under the Invictus brand" and "BitShares BEX will meet the original expectations of BitShares"  ...if you let go of the old meaning of bitshares, because that was incompatible. Just make sure you make everything straight and easy. Business is not a poetry club or an intellectual gathering. Forums are a little more though... ;)
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: testz on January 09, 2014, 09:48:15 pm
Generally good idea.

My 2 cents. I don't like abbreviation BitShares DMS, I think, we should keep DomainShares or change it to something similar to BitShares DNS to make it more clear for Internet users.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: bitbro on January 09, 2014, 10:02:02 pm

Alright that's a bit more clear, but I'm still concerned about overloading the "BitShares" term. I think you should take some care to establish what sorts of crypto-equities should fall under the "BitShares" umbrella and which shouldn't.

My opinion is that BitShares should only apply to cryptoequity in systems that behave "close enough" to how BitShares BEX does.

Perhaps a good criterion is if the system 1) honors AGS and PTS and 2) implements cross-chain trading with existing BitShares chains. Then DomainShares and possibly ProtoShares (with a soft fork) could be called BTS DNS and BTS PTS, but angelshares shouldn't be called BTS AGS.


Basically imagine how many times you'll have to reply to someone who says "WTB BTS AGS for BTS BEX" with, "actually, BTS AGS is not part of the BitShares chain groups and is not a tradeable. Read more about how all the different BTS DACs behave here"

You wouldn't say the Apple MacBook Pro, just like you won't say BitShares Protoshares.  In conversation, names adopt the appropriate length


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: toast on January 10, 2014, 03:40:10 am
Ok two more questions:

What's the new "short name" the thing Dan is currently working on? BEX?

As per my previous post, where do you draw the line between crypto-equity that counts as bitshares? BitShares Litecoin is crypto-equity in the litecoin currency DAC!

Again, my proposed criteria: honoring pts/ags, and cross-chain trading with other bitshares (base case being BEX)
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: toast on January 10, 2014, 03:53:52 am
Put another way: bitshares are a sub-thing of i3 DACs. What kinds of DACs might you make that aren't a sub-thing of bitshares?
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: Stan on January 10, 2014, 04:32:05 am
Ok two more questions:

What's the new "short name" the thing Dan is currently working on? BEX?

As per my previous post, where do you draw the line between crypto-equity that counts as bitshares? BitShares Litecoin is crypto-equity in the litecoin currency DAC!

Again, my proposed criteria: honoring pts/ags, and cross-chain trading with other bitshares (base case being BEX)

Those two criteria certainly make a good start! 
It also has to be endorsable, i.e. compatible with our core principles. 
I don't think BitShares SlaveTrader would fly...   :)
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: toast on January 10, 2014, 05:24:27 am
But by those two criteria, AGS would not be a subclass of bitshares.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: toast on January 10, 2014, 05:25:08 am
Put another way: bitshares are a sub-thing of i3 DACs. What kinds of DACs might you make that aren't a sub-thing of bitshares?

This is important too
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: bytemaster on January 10, 2014, 05:56:33 am
Put another way: bitshares are a sub-thing of i3 DACs. What kinds of DACs might you make that aren't a sub-thing of bitshares?

This is important too

Keyhotee is not a DAC
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: toast on January 10, 2014, 06:05:09 am
I've collected everything I'm trying to say in one post to make replying easier.

Thanks for the answers and patience from Stan and others. I'm arguing with you guys because I think this is a *really* important issue and that you haven't realized how much confusion it could cause.

Please tell me what the new names are for ALL of these concepts. They should have clear names and should be overloaded only if the terms can only appear in different contexts.
If you find this challenging, don't go ahead with this re-branding until we figure everything out.

Names:
1) What was formerly known as BitShares, the awesome innovation that is the distributed-prediction-market-based polymorphic digital asset exchange
2) The core asset in the original BitShares chain, formerly BTS
3) The whole system of prediction-market-based exchanges
4) An arbitrary new instance of (1), which is a part of (3)
5) An arbitrary new core asset, the core asset of a (4)
6) An invictus-endorsed crypto-equity (the NEW BitShares)

(my answers after my moment of clarity are: 1) BEX for the concept as a whole, BEXCurrency for the root chain 2) BEX 3) BEX 4) BEX***, BEXchain 5) BEX***Share 6) BitShares )
(second point of confusion: do non-primary chains have *separate* base units, like BEXStockShares? or do BEX aka BitShares1.0 units get transferred into the new chain?)

And, on top of that naming challenge, a question: Could there possibly be a DAC you release whose equity you do NOT call a BitShare? If so, give an example; if not, acknowledge that "BitShares" is essentially the new name for "I3 DAC".

Put another way: bitshares are a sub-thing of i3 DACs. What kinds of DACs might you make that aren't a sub-thing of bitshares?

This is important too

Keyhotee is not a DAC

I understand. I'm asking, is there anything that would be a DAC, but would not be a BitShare, under the new scheme.


Quote
It is already getting a lot of attention and it has a nice parallelism with Bitcoin, which in the public mind has become virtually synonymous with the crypto-currency ecosystem, including all its altcoins.  We hope that BitShares will serve a similar function for the crypto-equity domain.
Quote
This is for one very simple reason:  bit-shares is the perfect parallel to bit-coin for communicating the duality (and differences) and between crypto-equities and crypto-currencies.  No other name would do for that purpose.

But "bitcoin" doesn't mean "cryptocurrency"! Nobody says "litecoin and peercoin are two examples of bitcoins".
You are making the analogy to bitcoin LESS applicable. bitcoin:currency::bitshares:equity worked better for the OLD definition. You can't own a bitshare anymore, for example.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: logxing on January 10, 2014, 06:11:03 am
WoW WoW WoW :D
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: super3 on January 10, 2014, 07:48:53 am
Bitshares is a distributed-prediction-market-based polymorphic digital asset exchange, but are you honestly going to say that on an elevator to someone? We need to shorten that to something understandable. Bitcoin - Digital Currency. Bitshares -  Assets Exchange?
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: toast on January 10, 2014, 07:51:08 am
Bitshares is a distributed-prediction-market-based polymorphic digital asset exchange, but are you honestly going to say that on an elevator to someone? We need to shorten that to something understandable. Bitcoin - Digital Currency. Bitshares -  Assets Exchange?

Nope, BitShares is not an asset exchange anymore. You're thinking of BitShares BEX. BitShares is a loose collection of I3 DACs which all have the common theme that they relate to equity. What you're suggesting would be natural and easy to market, but we have a new Branding StrategyTM

You can own a bitcoin. You can't own a bitshare (anymore). You can own a unit of a thing which has the brand BitShares prepended to it though.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: bytemaster on January 10, 2014, 08:17:34 am
Bitshares is a distributed-prediction-market-based polymorphic digital asset exchange, but are you honestly going to say that on an elevator to someone? We need to shorten that to something understandable. Bitcoin - Digital Currency. Bitshares -  Assets Exchange?

Nope, BitShares is not an asset exchange anymore. You're thinking of BitShares BEX. BitShares is a loose collection of I3 DACs which all have the common theme that they relate to equity. What you're suggesting would be natural and easy to market, but we have a new Branding StrategyTM

You can own a bitcoin. You can't own a bitshare (anymore). You can own a unit of a thing which has the brand BitShares prepended to it though.

I agree it is a bit messy.  Thank you all for your feedback I am sure Stan & Brian will hear you out and entertain ideas to clear things up.   Something to consider is the following:

BitShares BEX -> Currency Assets (ie banking)
BitShares CEX ->  CommodityShares  Commodities (ie comex)
BitSHares NDQ -> TechShares    Tech Exchange, Nasdaq
BitShares DOW -> ...

You get the idea, all of these BitShares changes are 100% identical except for the asset names in the prediction markets.  They are all "BitShares" but each has a dedicated purpose.   Given this reality having BitShares PTS, AGS, DMS, etc don't seem that out of place.

Brian and Stan are reasonable people looking for a good branding solution and I am very busy with other tasks so generally defer to them on these issues.  I will have to increasingly rely on others (Dan Notestein for Keyhotee) etc to fully implement my vision and ideas. 






Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: toast on January 10, 2014, 08:42:46 am
Bitshares is a distributed-prediction-market-based polymorphic digital asset exchange, but are you honestly going to say that on an elevator to someone? We need to shorten that to something understandable. Bitcoin - Digital Currency. Bitshares -  Assets Exchange?

Nope, BitShares is not an asset exchange anymore. You're thinking of BitShares BEX. BitShares is a loose collection of I3 DACs which all have the common theme that they relate to equity. What you're suggesting would be natural and easy to market, but we have a new Branding StrategyTM

You can own a bitcoin. You can't own a bitshare (anymore). You can own a unit of a thing which has the brand BitShares prepended to it though.

I agree it is a bit messy.  Thank you all for your feedback I am sure Stan & Brian will hear you out and entertain ideas to clear things up.   Something to consider is the following:

BitShares BEX -> Currency Assets (ie banking)
BitShares CEX ->  CommodityShares  Commodities (ie comex)
BitSHares NDQ -> TechShares    Tech Exchange, Nasdaq
BitShares DOW -> ...

You get the idea, all of these BitShares changes are 100% identical except for the asset names in the prediction markets.  They are all "BitShares" but each has a dedicated purpose.   Given this reality having BitShares PTS, AGS, DMS, etc don't seem that out of place.

Brian and Stan are reasonable people looking for a good branding solution and I am very busy with other tasks so generally defer to them on these issues.  I will have to increasingly rely on others (Dan Notestein for Keyhotee) etc to fully implement my vision and ideas.

Thank you. The main point is that "bitshares" should only be used for DACs that are the asset-tracking market thing (which can be interconnected as described in the whitepaper), which works for all the examples bytemaster gives here. We should *not* just milk the term "bitshares" for all the SEO juice it's worth to draw more attention to PTS/AGS.

Quote
Given this reality having BitShares PTS, AGS, DMS, etc don't seem that out of place.
DMS yes, if it is implemented as an asset-tracking marketplace where the assets are domains, using the same mechanism as the above bitshare types.

PTS and AGS should not be classified as a sub-group of BitShares, which is what branding them with BitShares causes a normal person to automatically assume.
edit: Unless you implement cross-chain trading for PTS to be able to link them into the BitShares equity ecosystem.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: super3 on January 10, 2014, 02:14:49 pm
Bitshares is a distributed-prediction-market-based polymorphic digital asset exchange, but are you honestly going to say that on an elevator to someone? We need to shorten that to something understandable. Bitcoin - Digital Currency. Bitshares -  Assets Exchange?

Nope, BitShares is not an asset exchange anymore. You're thinking of BitShares BEX. BitShares is a loose collection of I3 DACs which all have the common theme that they relate to equity. What you're suggesting would be natural and easy to market, but we have a new Branding StrategyTM

You can own a bitcoin. You can't own a bitshare (anymore). You can own a unit of a thing which has the brand BitShares prepended to it though.
Ah ok. Makes sense. Really love this concept now.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: Riverhead on January 10, 2014, 02:38:23 pm

•   BitShares LKS is our brand for LuckyShares – robotically honest gaming.
 


Any relation to: https://github.com/LuckyCoinProject/Luckycoin ?


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=214614.0

Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: Stan on January 10, 2014, 02:50:16 pm

•   BitShares LKS is our brand for LuckyShares – robotically honest gaming.
 


Any relation to: https://github.com/LuckyCoinProject/Luckycoin ?


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=214614.0

No, LKS will be far more lucky...   :)

Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: Stan on January 10, 2014, 03:14:31 pm
Bitshares is a distributed-prediction-market-based polymorphic digital asset exchange, but are you honestly going to say that on an elevator to someone? We need to shorten that to something understandable. Bitcoin - Digital Currency. Bitshares -  Assets Exchange?

Nope, BitShares is not an asset exchange anymore. You're thinking of BitShares BEX. BitShares is a loose collection of I3 DACs which all have the common theme that they relate to equity. What you're suggesting would be natural and easy to market, but we have a new Branding StrategyTM

You can own a bitcoin. You can't own a bitshare (anymore). You can own a unit of a thing which has the brand BitShares prepended to it though.
Ah ok. Makes sense. Really love this concept now.
Yes, from the public/media's point of view we want to achieve this parallelism:

BitShares is to crypto-equities
what
Bitcoin is to crypto-currencies

Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: bitcoinba on January 10, 2014, 04:02:19 pm
Here is my take:

"Bitshares: the digital standard for assets and equities." or even simpler "Bitshares: the digital standard of value exchange."

From merriam webster:

Standard:
3
:  something established by authority, custom, or general consent as a model or example
4
:  something set up and established by authority as a rule for the measure of quantity, weight, extent, value, or quality
5
b :  the basis of value in a monetary system <the gold standard>
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: toast on January 10, 2014, 05:24:06 pm
Stan can you please address my post where I ask you guys to name the list of 6 concepts?

You want to achieve parallelism in the public eye.
Bitcoin is the flagship cryptocurrency.
Bitshares should be the flagship cryptoequity.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: toast on January 10, 2014, 05:26:41 pm
Also, read bytemaster's post. Notice you two have different ideas of what "bitshares" should represent.

You can give "bitshares" a promotion - promote it to "the main unit of crypto-equity" in the bitshares asset hair ecosystem.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: luckybit on January 10, 2014, 05:59:05 pm
Ok two more questions:

What's the new "short name" the thing Dan is currently working on? BEX?

As per my previous post, where do you draw the line between crypto-equity that counts as bitshares? BitShares Litecoin is crypto-equity in the litecoin currency DAC!

Again, my proposed criteria: honoring pts/ags, and cross-chain trading with other bitshares (base case being BEX)

Those two criteria certainly make a good start! 
It also has to be endorsable, i.e. compatible with our core principles. 
I don't think BitShares SlaveTrader would fly...   :)

Sometimes just a name which sounds cool is better than a name which means anything. You give it meaning after it's in people's heads. What is a Firefox? I don't know but the logo looks cool and it sounds cool.

Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: Stan on January 10, 2014, 08:41:15 pm
I've collected everything I'm trying to say in one post to make replying easier.

Thanks for the answers and patience from Stan and others. I'm arguing with you guys because I think this is a *really* important issue and that you haven't realized how much confusion it could cause.

Please tell me what the new names are for ALL of these concepts. They should have clear names and should be overloaded only if the terms can only appear in different contexts.
If you find this challenging, don't go ahead with this re-branding until we figure everything out.

Names:
1) What was formerly known as BitShares, the awesome innovation that is the distributed-prediction-market-based polymorphic digital asset exchange
2) The core asset in the original BitShares chain, formerly BTS
3) The whole system of prediction-market-based exchanges
4) An arbitrary new instance of (1), which is a part of (3)
5) An arbitrary new core asset, the core asset of a (4)
6) An invictus-endorsed crypto-equity (the NEW BitShares)

(my answers after my moment of clarity are: 1) BEX for the concept as a whole, BEXCurrency for the root chain 2) BEX 3) BEX 4) BEX***, BEXchain 5) BEX***Share 6) BitShares )
(second point of confusion: do non-primary chains have *separate* base units, like BEXStockShares? or do BEX aka BitShares1.0 units get transferred into the new chain?)

And, on top of that naming challenge, a question: Could there possibly be a DAC you release whose equity you do NOT call a BitShare? If so, give an example; if not, acknowledge that "BitShares" is essentially the new name for "I3 DAC".

Put another way: bitshares are a sub-thing of i3 DACs. What kinds of DACs might you make that aren't a sub-thing of bitshares?

This is important too

Keyhotee is not a DAC

I understand. I'm asking, is there anything that would be a DAC, but would not be a BitShare, under the new scheme.


Quote
It is already getting a lot of attention and it has a nice parallelism with Bitcoin, which in the public mind has become virtually synonymous with the crypto-currency ecosystem, including all its altcoins.  We hope that BitShares will serve a similar function for the crypto-equity domain.
Quote
This is for one very simple reason:  bit-shares is the perfect parallel to bit-coin for communicating the duality (and differences) and between crypto-equities and crypto-currencies.  No other name would do for that purpose.

But "bitcoin" doesn't mean "cryptocurrency"! Nobody says "litecoin and peercoin are two examples of bitcoins".
You are making the analogy to bitcoin LESS applicable. bitcoin:currency::bitshares:equity worked better for the OLD definition. You can't own a bitshare anymore, for example.

Thank you for all your deep thinking!

Let's start with the last point first:  If you think of just bitcoin vs Bitcoin you are very right.
If you consider that there is a third unused capitalization, BITCOIN, then maybe you can see our motivation.

bitcoin is a unit of a specific currency.
  Bitcoin is a standard which has been used to implement multiple alt-currencies from many developers.
    BITCOIN is the not-too-informed general public's name for any crypto-currency.  (Kleenex = tissues)
    BITSHARES would be what we hope first dawn's in the public's mind as a crypto-equity.
  BitShares is a standard which could used to implement multiple alt-equities from many developers.
bitshares could be the unit of a specific equity, but which one?  There will be many such exchanges.

BITCOIN and BITSHARES won't be used explicitly, but Bitcoin and BitShares have that unspoken flagship function which is distinct from representing their own standards for deriving specific instances of coins and shares.  What other name than BitShares could serve this role better?

And "shares" isn't confined to just "things that trade shares".  Every unmanned company we can envision will have shares, whatever their business models.

But, just as there are alt-coins that aren't built to Bitcoin standards, there will surely be alt-shares that aren't built to BitShares standards.  The main distinguishing feature is the BitShares Social Consensus License.

So there is still room for much discussion on most of your naming conventions. For example, if you have to name the currencies of each exchange anyway, why should the shares of BitShares BEX get to be just "bitshares"?  Because they were the first?

It would be more uniform to have BEXshares, CEXshares, LKSshares, etc. and let bitshares be the generic name for them all.

BitShares BEX would have BEXshares,
BitShares LKS would have LKSshares, and so on.

So far, we have only introduced a top-down branding strategy for
how public attention will be drawn to the equities of PTS and AGS holders.
(and how they can be associated so that they reinforce each other).
That's the main purpose of having a brand.

The remaining questions you ask are still valid topics for robust discussion in this forum.  Thanks for posing them.

Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: santaclause102 on January 10, 2014, 11:13:56 pm
I think that makes a lot of sense and is perfectly sound.

But consider that Bitcoin (or BITCOIN respectively) being referred as a generic term for all crypto currencies comes from Bitcoin being the de facto standard. There was no marketing that implemented that...

The challenge here is to on the one hand not confuse the average user with 5 different meanings of the same word (Bitshares) but at the same time implement what you just presented. The first thing has no. 1 priority short to medium term. The latter might evolve a bit on its own if bitshares de facto grows to where it would earn to be referred as the standard in crypto equity.

The conclusion would be: Follow your hidden agenda of Bitshares' perception ex- or implicitly as long as it doesn't confuse people and deter anyone from using it. 
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: toast on January 11, 2014, 04:56:30 am
Stan - thank you so much! Your response was helpful and clear. I am ready to endorse this change now.

So the short-term plan of action would be to make sure we properly commit to this branding strategy for what is now BEXShares. In particular, making it clear that investor's pts/ags are still giving them the same amount of equity in the same technology.

We should also do things like rename the bitshares subforum to BEX, update the bounties, and update all the descriptions of BEX out in the wild, like the whitepaper various intro videos. Bitshares may not take up much of the public's headspace, but much of the early adopter community will need to be caught up.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: Giga on January 11, 2014, 12:51:41 pm
I'm a big advocate of branding I love where this is going. I believe in the modern world branding plays a huge role, I didn't find the post confusing at all.

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Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: Giga on January 11, 2014, 12:53:18 pm
Great thinking. I gotta get me some more BitShares PTS before this news gets out!
+1

I just exchanged all my PTS for BitShares PTSTM at the rate 1:1!

You are kidding about this right?
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: 5chdn on January 11, 2014, 03:16:56 pm
Great thinking. I gotta get me some more BitShares PTS before this news gets out!
+1

I just exchanged all my PTS for BitShares PTSTM at the rate 1:1!

You are kidding about this right?
Yes :)
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: Giga on January 11, 2014, 06:06:10 pm
Great thinking. I gotta get me some more BitShares PTS before this news gets out!
+1

I just exchanged all my PTS for BitShares PTSTM at the rate 1:1!

You are kidding about this right?
Yes :)

 :P
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: Yui Xie on January 13, 2014, 07:26:23 pm
An often overlooked issue when attempting to establish credibility/branding is the quality of writing.  Inviticus appears to have sharp, forward-looking, creative people, but their writing skills just aren't on the same level.  Heck, the present company homepage wasn't even run through a spellchecker: "concensus" is not a word. 

I'll admit I was initially turned off when I first started looking at the DAC concepts because the explanatory writing was not at a professional level.  American idioms and metaphors are used and these are not going to play well with an international audience.  Sloppy writing is not going to dissuade everybody (and I eventually became a Protoshare investor), but why add an additional barrier?

Impressions count for a lot.  Going to a job interview wearing jeans, sneakers, and a T-shirt doesn't automatically dismiss you as an under-qualified candidate.  Most potential employers, however, aren't going to make the extra effort to determine if you've got the desired skills if you present yourself poorly. 

Cleaning up the writing will go a long way to promoting the company and its ideas.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: bytemaster on January 13, 2014, 08:20:55 pm
An often overlooked issue when attempting to establish credibility/branding is the quality of writing.  Inviticus appears to have sharp, forward-looking, creative people, but their writing skills just aren't on the same level.  Heck, the present company homepage wasn't even run through a spellchecker: "concensus" is not a word. 

I'll admit I was initially turned off when I first started looking at the DAC concepts because the explanatory writing was not at a professional level.  American idioms and metaphors are used and these are not going to play well with an international audience.  Sloppy writing is not going to dissuade everybody (and I eventually became a Protoshare investor), but why add an additional barrier?

Impressions count for a lot.  Going to a job interview wearing jeans, sneakers, and a T-shirt doesn't automatically dismiss you as an under-qualified candidate.  Most potential employers, however, aren't going to make the extra effort to determine if you've got the desired skills if you present yourself poorly. 

Cleaning up the writing will go a long way to promoting the company and its ideas.

Have no fear, Brian Page is here.  We just spent an entire weekend working on cleaning up how we explain things and by the time we get to the Miami conference everything will be different. 
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: bytemaster on January 14, 2014, 12:54:32 am
(http://the-iland.net/static/images/BitSharesFinalTM.jpg)

BitShares    - Reimagine Everything
Keyhotee    - Own your Identity
PTS            - Trade future BitShares
AGS           - Build future BitShares
BitShares X - Save & Exchange Anything

Another Idea:
BitShares X - Earn 5% or MORE on ANYTHING

BitShares are any blockchain-based business and are what we would like to be the official 'brand name' to replace the technical term DAC.  All DACs have bitshares and thus all DACs produced by Invictus are BitShares.    BitShares X is the generic concept for all BitShares exchanges originally described by our white paper.   X is symbolic of eXchange and also the variable x which indicates that there may be many different kinds of exchanges such as DOW, S&P, COMEX, FOREX, etc and these will be branded by the people who launch them.   BitShares X is the brand of the system and generic open source software WE are producing.   As BitShares X is an abstract class with no instantiations it has no 3 letter currency such as BEX, TEX, DMS, PTS, AGS, etc... these 3-letter extensions will be reserved for the specific instances.

The X will be styled after the arm of the 'b' and the tickmark on the 'i' in the BitShares logo. 

As always we are rapidly working to refine our brand and doing so early, often, and publicly.  We just wanted to share our latest thinking as I think we are converging on something that will be much easier for Brian to market.  Feedback is appreciated.   


Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: santaclause102 on January 14, 2014, 01:17:52 am
A marketing / branding strategy for PTS and maybe AGS:

A term that is widely known, among investors and as a metaphor also to a wider group of people, is "accelerator (company)" (with or without the term "company" or instead "accelerator share/stock/network").

I3 could make use of this term and its connotations in the way that "accelerator (company/share/network)" is maybe the best pre-DAC analogy for what I3 does for DACs with PTS. A similar term would be seed funding. For example: "PTS - the Bitshares Accelerator Network" or  "PTS - the Bitshares accelerator stock"... 
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: sumantso on January 14, 2014, 01:30:18 am
Is that Bitshare logo final? Kinda looks like a snail trying to climb up a wall :-\
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: Bitcoinfan on January 14, 2014, 01:32:32 am
(http://the-iland.net/static/images/BitSharesFinalTM.jpg)

BitShares    - Reimagine Everything
Keyhotee    - Own your Identity
PTS            - Trade future BitShares
AGS           - Build future BitShares
BitShares X - Save & Exchange Anything

Another Idea:
BitShares X - Earn 5% or MORE on ANYTHING

BitShares are any blockchain-based business and are what we would like to be the official 'brand name' to replace the technical term DAC.  All DACs have bitshares and thus all DACs produced by Invictus are BitShares.    BitShares X is the generic concept for all BitShares exchanges originally described by our white paper.   X is symbolic of eXchange and also the variable x which indicates that there may be many different kinds of exchanges such as DOW, S&P, COMEX, FOREX, etc and these will be branded by the people who launch them.   BitShares X is the brand of the system and generic open source software WE are producing.   As BitShares X is an abstract class with no instantiations it has no 3 letter currency such as BEX, TEX, DMS, PTS, AGS, etc... these 3-letter extensions will be reserved for the specific instances.

The X will be styled after the arm of the 'b' and the tickmark on the 'i' in the BitShares logo. 

As always we are rapidly working to refine our brand and doing so early, often, and publicly.  We just wanted to share our latest thinking as I think we are converging on something that will be much easier for Brian to market.  Feedback is appreciated.

Bytemaster.  I'm a huge fan of all of this.  Especially the logo.  Who made it?
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: santaclause102 on January 14, 2014, 02:27:31 am
What would be a better topic for texting / marketing suggestions?
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: bytemaster on January 14, 2014, 03:32:04 am
Is that Bitshare logo final? Kinda looks like a snail trying to climb up a wall :-\

You just had to point that out to me didn't you... lol 
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: bytemaster on January 14, 2014, 03:34:30 am
Quote
Bytemaster.  I'm a huge fan of all of this.  Especially the logo.  Who made it?

Brian has a graphics designer he is working with.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: Stan on January 14, 2014, 03:37:17 am
Is that Bitshare logo final? Kinda looks like a snail trying to climb up a wall :-\

You just had to point that out to me didn't you... lol

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder:  Here's by far the best interpretation I've heard so far:

Quote
I see in that logo a "B" that looks like a spiral staircase shaped conveyor that's 7 DACs coming onto a slide and out into the world one after another.  The different shades give them a little individuality.

Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: voldemort628 on January 14, 2014, 04:17:18 am
@Stan: 7?
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: cm8108@163.com on January 14, 2014, 05:15:19 am
Stan,请注意中国这个巨大的新兴市场,这里有很多战略家和精英,请将中国的分公司提上日程,构建bitshares 全球布局。我们很多人持有pts ,还有ags .但和你们缺少沟通的平台。还有在中国的传统节日-春节,释放一些好消息,信心非常重要!持续的影响力是你们营销部门该思考的。
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: 520Bit on January 15, 2014, 02:40:30 pm
Stan,请注意中国这个巨大的新兴市场,这里有很多战略家和精英,请将中国的分公司提上日程,构建bitshares 全球布局。我们很多人持有pts ,还有ags .但和你们缺少沟通的平台。还有在中国的传统节日-春节,释放一些好消息,信心非常重要!持续的影响力是你们营销部门该思考的。

I am not sure if Stan can understand what you texted here. I would like to translate:

Please pay attention to Chinese huge new market, there are lots of strategist and elites in China. Could you please build a Chinese branch company and global layout of bitshares? We hold lots of PTS and AGS, but lack of communication platform in China. Moreover, it is very important to give people more confidence by issuing some good news during Chinese traditional new year - spring festival. You should pay more attention to the continuous influence of III company.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: Stan on January 15, 2014, 03:10:32 pm
Stan,请注意中国这个巨大的新兴市场,这里有很多战略家和精英,请将中国的分公司提上日程,构建bitshares 全球布局。我们很多人持有pts ,还有ags .但和你们缺少沟通的平台。还有在中国的传统节日-春节,释放一些好消息,信心非常重要!持续的影响力是你们营销部门该思考的。

I am not sure if Stan can understand what you texted here. I would like to translate:

Please pay attention to Chinese huge new market, there are lots of strategist and elites in China. Could you please build a Chinese branch company and global layout of bitshares? We hold lots of PTS and AGS, but lack of communication platform in China. Moreover, it is very important to give people more confidence by issuing some good news during Chinese traditional new year - spring festival. You should pay more attention to the continuous influence of III company.

Thank you for being pro-active!  We are very well aware of the over 5000 people in China that are following BitShares closely and note with delight how when the sun goes down here and rises in China our forum gains a strong Asian flavor.  Mr. Bo Shen, our Asian CEO is working very hard to bring about the very things you are suggesting!  At our company summit meeting last weekend it was a major topic of our 24-hour long strategic planning marathon. 
:)
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: santaclause102 on January 15, 2014, 03:14:11 pm
Stan,请注意中国这个巨大的新兴市场,这里有很多战略家和精英,请将中国的分公司提上日程,构建bitshares 全球布局。我们很多人持有pts ,还有ags .但和你们缺少沟通的平台。还有在中国的传统节日-春节,释放一些好消息,信心非常重要!持续的影响力是你们营销部门该思考的。

I am not sure if Stan can understand what you texted here. I would like to translate:

Please pay attention to Chinese huge new market, there are lots of strategist and elites in China. Could you please build a Chinese branch company and global layout of bitshares? We hold lots of PTS and AGS, but lack of communication platform in China. Moreover, it is very important to give people more confidence by issuing some good news during Chinese traditional new year - spring festival. You should pay more attention to the continuous influence of III company.
+1 for big picture and thinking globally
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: santaclause102 on January 15, 2014, 09:34:43 pm
Clarification: Doe PTS and AGS holders each get 50% in Bitshares x (meaning all Bitshares) or just in bitshares BEX? 
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: bytemaster on January 15, 2014, 10:26:55 pm
Clarification: Doe PTS and AGS holders each get 50% in Bitshares x (meaning all Bitshares) or just in bitshares BEX?

We have promised exactly 1 chain to be 50/50; however, unless the other chains require significant extra R&D I can see no rationale to allocate other than 50/50 for all BitShares X chains. 
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: santaclause102 on January 15, 2014, 11:15:17 pm
Clarification: Doe PTS and AGS holders each get 50% in Bitshares x (meaning all Bitshares) or just in bitshares BEX?

We have promised exactly 1 chain to be 50/50; however, unless the other chains require significant extra R&D I can see no rationale to allocate other than 50/50 for all BitShares X chains.

+ 1 :)
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: santaclause102 on January 18, 2014, 01:46:57 am
 BitShares CEX is our brand for our first Commodities EXchange. That would equal the colored coins idea?
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: bytemaster on January 18, 2014, 06:18:45 am
BitShares CEX is our brand for our first Commodities EXchange. That would equal the colored coins idea?

Nope, colored coins are digital bearer bonds...
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: santaclause102 on January 18, 2014, 12:04:57 pm
BitShares CEX is our brand for our first Commodities EXchange. That would equal the colored coins idea?

Nope, colored coins are digital bearer bonds...

Yes. Does I3 plan on something with colored coins? And what is CEX then? Where can I read about it?
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: bytemaster on January 18, 2014, 04:38:27 pm
BitShares CEX is our brand for our first Commodities EXchange. That would equal the colored coins idea?

Nope, colored coins are digital bearer bonds...

Yes. Does I3 plan on something with colored coins? And what is CEX then? Where can I read about it?

Every BitShares X chain has certain assets it trades, "CEX" was for commodity derivatives and is otherwise the same as every other BitShares X chain.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: santaclause102 on January 18, 2014, 05:07:20 pm
BitShares CEX is our brand for our first Commodities EXchange. That would equal the colored coins idea?

Nope, colored coins are digital bearer bonds...

Yes. Does I3 plan on something with colored coins? And what is CEX then? Where can I read about it?

Every BitShares X chain has certain assets it trades, "CEX" was for commodity derivatives and is otherwise the same as every other BitShares X chain.

What are examples for things traded on BEX compared to CEX?
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: bytemaster on January 18, 2014, 05:55:02 pm
Oil corn copper lead etc. 


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Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: santaclause102 on January 18, 2014, 06:19:21 pm
Oil corn copper lead etc. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

So same technology but different block chain for scaling purposes?
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: bytemaster on January 18, 2014, 07:59:10 pm
Oil corn copper lead etc. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

So same technology but different block chain for scaling purposes?

Yes
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: logramuda on January 20, 2014, 01:08:16 am

[/quote]+1

I just exchanged all my PTS for BitShares PTSTM at the rate 1:1!
[/quote]

Where? How?
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: onceuponatime on January 20, 2014, 01:33:06 am

+1

I just exchanged all my PTS for BitShares PTSTM at the rate 1:1!
[/quote]

Where? How?
[/quote]

That was an "insider's" joke. He didn't do anything. The "branding" name changed.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: Simulacra_and_Simulation on January 20, 2014, 03:48:08 am
New logo looks great.
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: fuzzy on January 27, 2014, 11:31:03 pm
New logo looks great.

Nice User Name ;)
Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: Brent.Allsop on January 30, 2014, 01:28:17 am

This link is dead?

http://invictus.io/funding-angelshares.php

Title: Re: The BitShares Brand
Post by: bytemaster on January 30, 2014, 01:54:59 am

This link is dead?

http://invictus.io/funding-angelshares.php

http://invictus.io/bitshares-ags.php