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Quote from: bitmarket on January 10, 2015, 12:02:41 amI would love to hear how critical bitcoin infrastructure could be come more secure like we did with the decentralized exchange article.eg: How could payment gateways use bitshares to make accepting bitcoin more streamlined or safer?or How could btishares help bitcoin achieve remittance success?I still feel like this is one of the most important questions to answer. With the large investments in Bitcoin, how can we help them help ourselves? There will be a time when we won't need to market that demographic, but for now, it's a priority in my mind.BM,When you're looking for a break from coding and searching for the next blog post, this one would be great.
I would love to hear how critical bitcoin infrastructure could be come more secure like we did with the decentralized exchange article.eg: How could payment gateways use bitshares to make accepting bitcoin more streamlined or safer?or How could btishares help bitcoin achieve remittance success?
0.6.0 comes with support for offline voter key and multisig. A generic offline transaction builder for all possible transaction types will come from nathan's light wallet as well.
Quote from: bitmar on January 10, 2015, 02:40:58 pmQuote from: bitmarket on January 10, 2015, 05:59:03 amTo be clear, It is cool to point out the benefits of bts. In fact I would say it is critical. I am just saying being tactful.Dont say bitshares is better. Say bitshares is better in this instance.Say bitcoins does this great while bitshares does that great.Its just the principles in the classic. "How to win friends and influence people."But it is all kind of heightened by a factor of ten because if you can make it pro bitcoin you will get 10 times the eyeballs.The biggest problem I have with bitshares today is its lacking cold wallet functionality. I could x10 my bitshares investment overnight if there was a cold wallet feature that could sign offline transactions and a hot wallet that could broadcast them. Alternatively OTP support in the client would help. Unfortunately now I have to just sit on the sidelines and wait. In the meantime perhaps other options will come up that overtake bitshares. I'd like to hear more about this from our development team.
Quote from: bitmarket on January 10, 2015, 05:59:03 amTo be clear, It is cool to point out the benefits of bts. In fact I would say it is critical. I am just saying being tactful.Dont say bitshares is better. Say bitshares is better in this instance.Say bitcoins does this great while bitshares does that great.Its just the principles in the classic. "How to win friends and influence people."But it is all kind of heightened by a factor of ten because if you can make it pro bitcoin you will get 10 times the eyeballs.The biggest problem I have with bitshares today is its lacking cold wallet functionality. I could x10 my bitshares investment overnight if there was a cold wallet feature that could sign offline transactions and a hot wallet that could broadcast them. Alternatively OTP support in the client would help. Unfortunately now I have to just sit on the sidelines and wait. In the meantime perhaps other options will come up that overtake bitshares.
To be clear, It is cool to point out the benefits of bts. In fact I would say it is critical. I am just saying being tactful.Dont say bitshares is better. Say bitshares is better in this instance.Say bitcoins does this great while bitshares does that great.Its just the principles in the classic. "How to win friends and influence people."But it is all kind of heightened by a factor of ten because if you can make it pro bitcoin you will get 10 times the eyeballs.
I must not be making my point clear, b/c nobody has addressed it head on, it seems like it's being avoided.1) I agree with Max's idea in terms of an attitude & style. I disagree with the idea of hiding our advantages. 2) FOR THE SPECIFIC EXAMPLE OF REMITTANCES, how do you help bitcoin without taking something away from BitShares? Think about it in terms of opportunity costs. If we do X to help bitcoin gain a share of the remittance market, what impact would that have on BitShares?If the impact is none or positive, great, we help BitShares AND bitcoin. As I said, I see no reason to throw glass in front of them, but neither do I think we should effectively throw it in front of our own car.The more I think about it I see we are spending alot of time trying to focus on bitcoin here than moving ahead with our own work in markets we know we have an advantage in.I understand the reasons to try to win over bitcoiners and address our poor reputation in their minds. It's important to do (as best we can, realizing many won't be won over due to an emotional attachment that rejects rational info that challenges their attachment) and I'm with you Max in your efforts to raise the BitShares' community awareness of how NOT to throw bitcoin under the bus.I think a balance is necessary, and I've tried to explain why I think the scales are tipped more in one direction when we discuss the remittance market. Notice how I made my point in the previous sentence without even mentioning bitcoin? If we want to build a better mousetrap let's focus on engineering the best damned mousetrap we can, not anybody else that might be trying to build one. To arhag I'll say thanks for your attempt, but I think you now see how difficult it is to try and wear two hats. That's the essence of Max's challenge. Nevertheless, it was a good try which I like b/c it was "let's help BitShares while we also help bitcoin". You're thinking win-win not win-loose and that's great. Let's just make sure we don't sacrifice our own mousetrap in the process.
QuoteDiversify bitcoin into FIAT without entering a centralized counter party risk system.Dude, I love this angle.
Diversify bitcoin into FIAT without entering a centralized counter party risk system.
BitShares Android app? Was not aware this was available yet
Quote from: bitmarket on January 10, 2015, 05:59:03 amTo be clear, It is cool to point out the benefits of bts. In fact I would say it is critical. I am just saying being tactful.Dont say bitshares is better. Say bitshares is better in this instance.Say bitcoins does this great while bitshares does that great.Its just the principles in the classic. "How to win friends and influence people."But it is all kind of heightened by a factor of ten because if you can make it pro bitcoin you will get 10 times the eyeballs.I totally agree with you as a PR strategy. It extends further though into maturing the software features that bitcoin users need: Bitcoin users need bitshares bitAssets. I am a hardcore bitcoiner who has never invested in any other alt-crypto until a few weeks ago I got really interested in bitshares. I would say that it wasn't I chose bitshares but rather *I didn't have any choice but bitshares*. Learning about the bitshares network security helped. Bitshares is the only way I know of to diversify bitcoin into FIAT without entering a centralized counter party risk system. The bitAssets CFD pools are the only decentralized option that is functional today. Bitcoin users need fiat diversification now. So everytime there is short term volatility in bitcoin or a failure such as Gox/Stamp, bitcoiners will go on the lookout for fiat diversification options. Bitshares is standing there with open arms ready to solve their problems via a decentralized network. The biggest problem I have with bitshares today is its lacking cold wallet functionality. I could x10 my bitshares investment overnight if there was a cold wallet feature that could sign offline transactions and a hot wallet that could broadcast them. Alternatively OTP support in the client would help. Unfortunately now I have to just sit on the sidelines and wait. In the meantime perhaps other options will come up that overtake bitshares. This is the bitshares race. I recently downloaded the bitShares android app from these forms which seems to work great. Also I tried one of the btc/bitshares gateways you mentioned earlier and it worked! I would love to see a fully client side bitshares webwallet people could download and run locally in their browser with cold and hot wallet features. The existing software is 90% there but the final 10% missing security features are critical. These development features lay down bridges that invite bitcoiners to cross over into bitsharesland whenever there is turmoil in the bitcoin kingdom. There are still some critical bridges that aren't fully matured which means bitcoiners who come to them may think twice before crossing. The bridges needs to be strong, smooth, shiny and straight as possible to maximize rapid conversion.
Beating Bitcoin does not mean BTS will succeed. Beating Bitcoin will not add value to BTS users.we should consider on how to serve people who use Bit-assets and BTS to create value. This is the only long term grantee of high BTS price.So I agree with bitmarket said.
I would love to hear how critical bitcoin infrastructure could be come more secure like we did with the decentralized exchange article.eg: How could payment gateways use bitshares to make accepting bitcoin more streamlined or safer?
But it is all kind of heightened by a factor of ten because if you can make it pro bitcoin you will get 10 times the eyeballs.
How could btishares help bitcoin achieve remittance success?
In our case.1. Our next wave of users, developers, eveangelists, marketers, and investors are most likely to come from the bitcoin space.2. Every bitcoin enthusiast has been told by the majority of their friends that they were crazy for buying bitcoin and that they would lose money. There is tremendous ego involved to see bitcoin succeed for that reason, not just financial. Telling their friends they were right about crypto but wrong about bitcoin will not cut it at the next BBQ.3. It costs a lot of money which we do not have to get the attention of many eyeballs and educate them on our brand new industry. Bitcoin enthusiasts are fanatical and will happily read any article that speaks highly of bitcoin posted on reddit. That means lots of free eyeballs that are the right eyeballs.In my opinion it is strategically foolish to not take advantage of 3, by not acknowledging 2 and thus missing out on 1.Btw, how many people have you successfully sold the concept of bitshares too? Have you had much success with "we are better than bitcoin?" (Genuine question, not cheeky at all.)
Quote from: bitmarket on January 09, 2015, 11:25:15 pmmake it a check box that is ticked by default.Would you like to receive free updates?http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/11/Introducing-SafeBot/Check out the last sentence
make it a check box that is ticked by default.Would you like to receive free updates?
Quote from: bytemaster on January 09, 2015, 06:03:34 amGood idea. We are capturing emails of everyone who signs up to BitShares via the faucet. I will work with Valintine to capture the email address of users and tie it into our overall system. This is not good. These users do not specifically want emails from you. If you collect leads on your blog from people who want emails from you, they will be much more responsive and you will be able to engage them.If I got an email from you after signing up with the faucet, I will think that I fell for a trap for you to get my email so you can spam me.
Good idea. We are capturing emails of everyone who signs up to BitShares via the faucet. I will work with Valintine to capture the email address of users and tie it into our overall system.
I think your personal approach is good, but I don't think we should confuse PR with marketing & advertising though. Products are sold on their competitive strengths vs. their competitors. Bitcoin is the leading competitor. These are our advantages over Bitcoin in this area, try us. This is where we can be complimentary to Bitcoin, try us. Etc. The people you mentioned are both heavily positioned in Bitcoin so presumably would see anybody else as a threat. Are either of them very supportive & involved with any other options like XRP/NXT/PPC/STR? If not there's probably little benefit to pandering to your small sample of Bitcoin royalty if they historically haven't been directly involved with and supportive of a non Bitcoin linked options. I also expect those invested in BTC but not heavily positioned in BTC related projects will be able to make more rational investment decisions than 'I am not reading it. The guys at BitShares hate BitcoinEdit: Given that you have a personal relationship and friendship with these guys, I can see why you personally wouldn't want to be seen as being involved with a direct Bitcoin competitor. It's possible though that this dynamic could cloud your objectivity with regards to how BitShares should approach marketing. Though I agree working better on PR, communication & being polite and respectful of Bitcoin are important.
I just don't think I can write 6 articles by the 17th that end that way.
Quote from: Empirical1.1 on January 09, 2015, 07:35:26 amEdit: Given that you have a personal relationship and friendship with these guys, I can see why you personally wouldn't want to be seen as being involved with a direct Bitcoin competitor. It's possible though that this dynamic could cloud your objectivity with regards to how BitShares should approach marketing. It is a valid question. I believe my thoughts are grounded logic and strategy though. I recall an article from a former senior management type from Skype who said behind closed doors they knew Skype was a direct competitor and had superior technology and costs than existing telephony technology. Their mission was to replace that industry. Strategically they decided to not position themselves as a telephony company at all for fear of regulatory obstacles created by the legacy telephony lobbyists. All be it for a different reason it is certainly a valid option to not go head to head with the 400 pound gorilla in the right circumstances.In our case.1. Our next wave of users, developers, eveangelists, marketers, and investors are most likely to come from the bitcoin space.2. Every bitcoin enthusiast has been told by the majority of their friends that they were crazy for buying bitcoin and that they would lose money. There is tremendous ego involved to see bitcoin succeed for that reason, not just financial. Telling their friends they were right about crypto but wrong about bitcoin will not cut it at the next BBQ.3. It costs a lot of money which we do not have to get the attention of many eyeballs and educate them on our brand new industry. Bitcoin enthusiasts are fanatical and will happily read any article that speaks highly of bitcoin posted on reddit. That means lots of free eyeballs that are the right eyeballs.In my opinion it is strategically foolish to not take advantage of 3, by not acknowledging 2 and thus missing out on 1.Btw, how many people have you successfully sold the concept of bitshares too? Have you had much success with "we are better than bitcoin?" (Genuine question, not cheeky at all.)
Edit: Given that you have a personal relationship and friendship with these guys, I can see why you personally wouldn't want to be seen as being involved with a direct Bitcoin competitor. It's possible though that this dynamic could cloud your objectivity with regards to how BitShares should approach marketing.
Quote from: Empirical1.1 on January 09, 2015, 06:16:56 amQuote from: btswildpig on January 09, 2015, 06:05:08 amQuote from: thistome on January 09, 2015, 06:01:32 amBeyond Bitcoin is very bad slogan! We need to support from Bitcoin crowd, bts is distributed bitcoin exchange. There are common interests.Beyond Freedom is a better slogan ,perhapsSame conclusion I get from big time Bitcoin investors in China . They lost interest when they saw the articles about how Bitshares can replace Bitcoin .I agree that the titles really don't need Bitcoin in them. I also think we should be polite and respectful. I just don't like the approach of avoiding the weaknesses of your competitor for fear of offending them.I think it's patronising and disingenuous to frame yourself as a complimentary addition to the Bitcoin ecosystem when the intelligent people with capital are investors capable of making rational decisions based on direct comparisons. As an example how do we promote remittances if not as a direct competitor to Bitcoin? Are we supposed to keep this competitive advantage quiet?A post I made earlier today...Quote they're very excited about the potential Bitcoin has for remittance particularly in the Philippines, as $20 Billion annually is remitted there, unfortunately for them our dollar stable, 10 second, 1 cent transactions, interest paying BitUSD & the relationships & offramps John Underwood specifically has there, crushes their model. It's a huge market that BitShares is going to be vastly superior in. The approach of not explaining that, pretending to be complimentary, hoping they connect the dots and when they do say 'shhh, now that you' ve converted be vewy vewy quiet, nobody is aloud to openly make direct comparisons about BitShares having a better business model, we have to pwetend that our Bitcoin crushing remittance model is actually a complimentary addition to Bitcoin...' Is the wrong approach to me.If you have a superior product and can back it up, make direct comparisons & intelligent, mature males with capital will consider it. They're investors and that's advertising.If we don't a competitor will come along and say 'hey we can do the remittance job with a stable dollar asset, for 1c in 10 seconds and we have offramps in the Philippines' while Bitcoin is volatile, takes longer, charges more and has no banking relationships there' - People can see the light quickly with such a stark comparison which we will have failed to make if everyone took the soft sell approach.I think both methods have a place but advertising your strengths vs. the leading competitor is just advertising, there's not many successful Trojan Horse campaigns I can recall and if there are, I would say they're the exception rather than the rule.It will be an interesting challenge to try a few articles in the vein BitMarket suggests and I know that approach works very well for him. Personally though I'm going to continue to be clear and direct about our advantages as well as the weaknesses of Bitcoin when engaging people.Let me give you two direct quotes from very serious people in the bitcoin space and good friends of mine.1. A well known bitcoin investor and evengalist. Seed investor in many of the biggest bitcoin businesses that you all know the names of and a good friend was asked to proof read bitshares 101 for me. He is a bitcoin multimillionaire and then some. He has flown me around in his plane. Bear in mind he is a good friend and would probably read a childrens book if I wrote it out of courtesy."I am not reading it. The guys at bitshares hate bitcoin."2. Owner and developer of one of the best bitcoin wallets and a friend. He asked me to be a investor in his wallet because or my rep and ability to market. When I mentioned I was excited about bitshares his response was... "Oh dude stay away from them. They piss a lot of people off. If you align yourself with them you will feel it next time you are at a conference." Hence bitshares.tv and this challenge. If we can repair bitshares reputation, I can bring a lot of people in. But as long as we are banging on about, "proof of waste" "Proof of work is dead", "The one chain to rule them all", "bitshares makes bitcoin redundant" "bitcoins demise is inevitable because of its inefficiencies", "beyond bitcoin" we will be shunned by the demographic that should be most responsive to us.
Quote from: btswildpig on January 09, 2015, 06:05:08 amQuote from: thistome on January 09, 2015, 06:01:32 amBeyond Bitcoin is very bad slogan! We need to support from Bitcoin crowd, bts is distributed bitcoin exchange. There are common interests.Beyond Freedom is a better slogan ,perhapsSame conclusion I get from big time Bitcoin investors in China . They lost interest when they saw the articles about how Bitshares can replace Bitcoin .I agree that the titles really don't need Bitcoin in them. I also think we should be polite and respectful. I just don't like the approach of avoiding the weaknesses of your competitor for fear of offending them.I think it's patronising and disingenuous to frame yourself as a complimentary addition to the Bitcoin ecosystem when the intelligent people with capital are investors capable of making rational decisions based on direct comparisons. As an example how do we promote remittances if not as a direct competitor to Bitcoin? Are we supposed to keep this competitive advantage quiet?A post I made earlier today...Quote they're very excited about the potential Bitcoin has for remittance particularly in the Philippines, as $20 Billion annually is remitted there, unfortunately for them our dollar stable, 10 second, 1 cent transactions, interest paying BitUSD & the relationships & offramps John Underwood specifically has there, crushes their model. It's a huge market that BitShares is going to be vastly superior in. The approach of not explaining that, pretending to be complimentary, hoping they connect the dots and when they do say 'shhh, now that you' ve converted be vewy vewy quiet, nobody is aloud to openly make direct comparisons about BitShares having a better business model, we have to pwetend that our Bitcoin crushing remittance model is actually a complimentary addition to Bitcoin...' Is the wrong approach to me.If you have a superior product and can back it up, make direct comparisons & intelligent, mature males with capital will consider it. They're investors and that's advertising.If we don't a competitor will come along and say 'hey we can do the remittance job with a stable dollar asset, for 1c in 10 seconds and we have offramps in the Philippines' while Bitcoin is volatile, takes longer, charges more and has no banking relationships there' - People can see the light quickly with such a stark comparison which we will have failed to make if everyone took the soft sell approach.I think both methods have a place but advertising your strengths vs. the leading competitor is just advertising, there's not many successful Trojan Horse campaigns I can recall and if there are, I would say they're the exception rather than the rule.It will be an interesting challenge to try a few articles in the vein BitMarket suggests and I know that approach works very well for him. Personally though I'm going to continue to be clear and direct about our advantages as well as the weaknesses of Bitcoin when engaging people.
Quote from: thistome on January 09, 2015, 06:01:32 amBeyond Bitcoin is very bad slogan! We need to support from Bitcoin crowd, bts is distributed bitcoin exchange. There are common interests.Beyond Freedom is a better slogan ,perhapsSame conclusion I get from big time Bitcoin investors in China . They lost interest when they saw the articles about how Bitshares can replace Bitcoin .
Beyond Bitcoin is very bad slogan! We need to support from Bitcoin crowd, bts is distributed bitcoin exchange. There are common interests.Beyond Freedom is a better slogan ,perhaps
they're very excited about the potential Bitcoin has for remittance particularly in the Philippines, as $20 Billion annually is remitted there, unfortunately for them our dollar stable, 10 second, 1 cent transactions, interest paying BitUSD & the relationships & offramps John Underwood specifically has there, crushes their model. It's a huge market that BitShares is going to be vastly superior in. The approach of not explaining that, pretending to be complimentary, hoping they connect the dots and when they do say 'shhh, now that you' ve converted be vewy vewy quiet, nobody is aloud to openly make direct comparisons about BitShares having a better business model, we have to pwetend that our Bitcoin crushing remittance model is actually a complimentary addition to Bitcoin...' Is the wrong approach to me.If you have a superior product and can back it up, make direct comparisons & intelligent, mature males with capital will consider it. They're investors and that's advertising.If we don't a competitor will come along and say 'hey we can do the remittance job with a stable dollar asset, for 1c in 10 seconds and we have offramps in the Philippines' while Bitcoin is volatile, takes longer, charges more and has no banking relationships there' - People can see the light quickly with such a stark comparison which we will have failed to make if everyone took the soft sell approach.I think both methods have a place but advertising your strengths vs. the leading competitor is just advertising, there's not many successful Trojan Horse campaigns I can recall and if there are, I would say they're the exception rather than the rule.
Quote from: RenaudGagne on January 09, 2015, 05:52:03 amWow. Did you get to capture leads from all that traffic bytemaster?What do you mean by "capture leads"? Everything we received in the past 48 hours (one of my biggest days) has resulted in a cookie being delivered to every visitor as part of our referral program. I am working to optimize my blog to start funneling users into BitShares.
Wow. Did you get to capture leads from all that traffic bytemaster?
Quote from: Empirical1.1 on January 09, 2015, 06:16:56 amQuote from: btswildpig on January 09, 2015, 06:05:08 amQuote from: thistome on January 09, 2015, 06:01:32 amBeyond Bitcoin is very bad slogan! We need to support from Bitcoin crowd, bts is distributed bitcoin exchange. There are common interests.Beyond Freedom is a better slogan ,perhapsSame conclusion I get from big time Bitcoin investors in China . They lost interest when they saw the articles about how Bitshares can replace Bitcoin .I agree that the titles really don't need Bitcoin in them. I also think we should be polite and respectful. I just don't like the approach of avoiding the weaknesses of your competitor for fear of offending them.I think it's patronising and disingenuous to frame yourself as a complimentary addition to the Bitcoin ecosystem when the intelligent people with capital are investors capable of making rational decisions based on direct comparisons. As an example how do we promote remittances if not as a direct competitor to Bitcoin? Are we supposed to keep this competitive advantage quiet?A post I made earlier today...Quote they're very excited about the potential Bitcoin has for remittance particularly in the Philippines, as $20 Billion annually is remitted there, unfortunately for them our dollar stable, 10 second, 1 cent transactions, interest paying BitUSD & the relationships & offramps John Underwood specifically has there, crushes their model. It's a huge market that BitShares is going to be vastly superior in. The approach of not explaining that, pretending to be complimentary, hoping they connect the dots and when they do say 'shhh, now that you' ve converted be vewy vewy quiet, nobody is aloud to openly make direct comparisons about BitShares having a better business model, we have to pwetend that our Bitcoin crushing remittance model is actually a complimentary addition to Bitcoin...' Is the wrong approach to me.If you have a superior product and can back it up, make direct comparisons & intelligent, mature males with capital will consider it. They're investors and that's advertising.If we don't a competitor will come along and say 'hey we can do the remittance job with a stable dollar asset, for 1c in 10 seconds and we have offramps in the Philippines' while Bitcoin is volatile, takes longer, charges more and has no banking relationships there' - People can see the light quickly with such a stark comparison which we will have failed to make if everyone took the soft sell approach.I think both methods have a place but advertising your strengths vs. the leading competitor is just advertising, there's not many successful Trojan Horse campaigns I can recall and if there are, I would say they're the exception rather than the rule.It will be an interesting challenge to try a few articles in the vein BitMarket suggests and I know that approach works very well for him. Personally though I'm going to continue to be clear and direct about our advantages as well as the weaknesses of Bitcoin when engaging people.Let me give you two direct quotes from very serious people in the bitcoin space and good friends of mine.1. A well known bitcoin investor and evengalist. Seed investor in many of the biggest bitcoin businesses that you all know the names of and a good friend was asked to proof read bitshares 101 for me. He is a bitcoin multimillionaire and then some. He has flown me around in his plane. Bear in mind he is a good friend and would probably read a childrens book if I wrote it out of courtesy."I am not reading it. The guys at bitshares hate bitcoin."2. Owner and developer of one of the best bitcoin wallets and a friend. He asked me to be a investor in his wallet because or my rep and ability to market. When I mentioned I was excited about bitshares his response was... "Oh dude stay away from them. They piss a lot of people off. If you align yourself with them you will feel it next time you are at a conference." Hence bitshares.tv and this challenge. If I can repair bitshares reputation, I can bring a lot of people in. But as long as we are banging on about, "proof of waste" "Proof of work is dead", "The one chain to rule them all", "bitshares makes bitcoin redundant" "bitcoins demise is inevitable because of its inefficiencies", "beyond bitcoin" we will be shunned by the demographic that should be most responsive to us.
The PR announcement I wrote for Max about how Bitshares+Shapeshift can shape the bitcoin world for the better can count in this bet , if the Shapeshift thing did pan out like what I wrote in that article . What do you think , max ?
QuoteWhat do you mean by "capture leads"? Everything we received in the past 48 hours (one of my biggest days) has resulted in a cookie being delivered to every visitor as part of our referral program. I am working to optimize my blog to start funneling users into BitShares. You are doing great and this is not criticism. By leads I mean a way to capture email to build a list and have your own private source of traffic forever and ever. I mean you are producing a lot of content! Would be happy to setup a subscription form with a call to action at the end of every post for you if you need support.
What do you mean by "capture leads"? Everything we received in the past 48 hours (one of my biggest days) has resulted in a cookie being delivered to every visitor as part of our referral program. I am working to optimize my blog to start funneling users into BitShares.