BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rune on February 16, 2015, 04:18:39 pm
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Hey everybody,
The BTER hack was really terrible for Cryptohedge because it put at risk all of the work we’ve been doing to improve bitAsset liquidity. Cryptohedge had almost all of its CFS asset funds on the exchange at the time of the attack.
We're working to figure out our exposure. We see the most likely outcome as the majority of all bitcoins will get a haircut while all altcoins will be returned.
Cryptohedge held around 93 BTC worth of CFS client funds on BTER in BTC, BTS, bitGold, and bitUSD. Of these funds about 27 BTC were exposed to the hack while the remaining funds were in assets or off exchange.
CFS asset funding is temporarily halted. Since the CFSBTC funding round just began and the BTC we received did not get touched, we'll refund those to anyone who is interested. Please PM me if you have CFSBTC and want to redeem it for your BTC.
To CFSGOLD and CFSUSD holders: We will be forthcoming with updates as soon as new information is made available by BTER and will arrange a buyback/withdrawal as soon as possible. Despite this huge setback we plan to keep Cryptohedge moving forward and get bitAsset liquidity going on Yunbi instead. This means there will also be the option of staying on as a funder. We hope to compensate for a part of the losses by doing an early CFSCOIN sharedrop on all funders. Only by moving forward and staying in business will this compensation have any value. We took a hit, but we’re not out.
Rune & Riverhead
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i'm feeling with you :( !
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Glad to hear it wasn't as bad as I thought it might be :)
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i'm feeling with you :( !
Agreed .. still a valuable service
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Rune, did you think about increasing liquidity on the DEX instead of on centralized exchanges? What obstacles would you face there?
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That's really sad.. I resold half of my CFSgold when I got the news, cause it may be hard to find affordable bitGold when cover time arrives :(. I'll be happy to buy back when the situation clears
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+5% keep the good work guys, your service is necessary for the entire ecosystem.
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Rune, did you think about increasing liquidity on the DEX instead of on centralized exchanges? What obstacles would you face there?
The biggest problem bitshares has at the moment is that we need an easy way to get in and out of bitassets from bitcoin. Unfortunately we cannot provide this in any other way than on centralized exchanges.
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You guys are doing a fine job, despite the crisis. You will pull through. :)
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Rune, did you think about increasing liquidity on the DEX instead of on centralized exchanges? What obstacles would you face there?
Metaexchange is looking into this possibility - stay tuned :)
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Rune, did you think about increasing liquidity on the DEX instead of on centralized exchanges? What obstacles would you face there?
Metaexchange is looking into this possibility - stay tuned :)
I said this because the first demographic to use the DEC would out community....
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=14328.msg186501#msg186501
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I hope in the end, most of the funds are save! I still have some altcoins on BTER and don't want to loose them.
metaexchange.info (http://metaexchange.info) is working on solutions to provide an alternative way of placing orders without much risk on 3rd party holders. Just wait a little bit longer to see, what we are planing!
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Did cryptohedge get some BTC back when bter reopened?
It seems that if you had btc in orders, you got a lot of it back. So I would think that some of the BTC in the buywalls would have been recovered?
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All my BTC was in orders when hacked, All my BTC is still in orders after they reopened.
Apparently BTC in orders was not stolen?
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Hey everybody,
The BTER hack was really terrible for Cryptohedge because it put at risk all of the work we’ve been doing to improve bitAsset liquidity. Cryptohedge had almost all of its CFS asset funds on the exchange at the time of the attack.
We're working to figure out our exposure. We see the most likely outcome as the majority of all bitcoins will get a haircut while all altcoins will be returned.
Cryptohedge held around 93 BTC worth of CFS client funds on BTER in BTC, BTS, bitGold, and bitUSD. Of these funds about 27 BTC were exposed to the hack while the remaining funds were in assets or off exchange.
CFS asset funding is temporarily halted. Since the CFSBTC funding round just began and the BTC we received did not get touched, we'll refund those to anyone who is interested. Please PM me if you have CFSBTC and want to redeem it for your BTC.
To CFSGOLD and CFSUSD holders: We will be forthcoming with updates as soon as new information is made available by BTER and will arrange a buyback/withdrawal as soon as possible. Despite this huge setback we plan to keep Cryptohedge moving forward and get bitAsset liquidity going on Yunbi instead. This means there will also be the option of staying on as a funder. We hope to compensate for a part of the losses by doing an early CFSCOIN sharedrop on all funders. Only by moving forward and staying in business will this compensation have any value. We took a hit, but we’re not out.
Rune & Riverhead
Has trading resumed to normal? or is there still accounting and losses to account for?
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Any news regarding CFSGOLD ?
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All my BTC was in orders when hacked, All my BTC is still in orders after they reopened.
Apparently BTC in orders was not stolen?
I believe that is correct. Hopefully most of cryptohedge's BTC is intact!
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We're still trying to actually get withdrawals through. Once we have our gold and bitUSD out we will do a full calculation of losses and liabilities. Right now it looks as if about 30% of all CFSGOLD and CFSUSD funds have been turned into bter BTC IOU's that cannot be withdrawn from bter but supposedly will become real BTC over time through income from trading fees. We then have to figure out a way we can allow people to withdraw both their bitgold/bitusd and their portion of the IOU, something that can't yet be done with UIA's.
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We're still trying to actually get withdrawals through. Once we have our gold and bitUSD out we will do a full calculation of losses and liabilities. Right now it looks as if about 30% of all CFSGOLD and CFSUSD funds have been turned into bter BTC IOU's that cannot be withdrawn from bter but supposedly will become real BTC over time through income from trading fees. We then have to figure out a way we can allow people to withdraw both their bitgold/bitusd and their portion of the IOU, something that can't yet be done with UIA's.
I think you will have to create new UIAs CFSGOLDB and CFSUSDB and sharedrop those on a snapshot of their respective UIAs. So CFSGOLDB would be distributed to a 100% snapshot of CFSGOLD and CFSUSDB would be distributed to a 100% snapshot of CFSUSD. CFSGOLD would then become a claim on the amount of BitGold you can get out of BTER while CFSGOLDB will be a claim on the amount of BTC you can eventually get from BTER from the BTC IOUs on the 30% of BitGold they took. Similarly, CFSUSDB would become a claim on the amount of BitUSD you can get out of BTER while CFSUSDB will be a claim on the amount of BTC you can eventually get from BTER from the BTC IOUs on the 30% of BitUSD they took. Alternatively, perhaps you could instead combine CFSGOLDB and CFSUSDB into one UIA and just sharedrop that on a combined snapshot. Either way, when you finally received the BTC you will gradually need to convert the BTC to BitBTC (perhaps as a part of making the BTC/BitBTC markets?) so you can buy back and burn the CFS*B assets in the CFS*B/BitBTC market(s) on the BitShares DEX.
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We're still trying to actually get withdrawals through. Once we have our gold and bitUSD out we will do a full calculation of losses and liabilities. Right now it looks as if about 30% of all CFSGOLD and CFSUSD funds have been turned into bter BTC IOU's that cannot be withdrawn from bter but supposedly will become real BTC over time through income from trading fees. We then have to figure out a way we can allow people to withdraw both their bitgold/bitusd and their portion of the IOU, something that can't yet be done with UIA's.
Any further update?
And could you please comment on why there is no longer any bids on the CFSUSDA market?
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We're still trying to actually get withdrawals through. Once we have our gold and bitUSD out we will do a full calculation of losses and liabilities. Right now it looks as if about 30% of all CFSGOLD and CFSUSD funds have been turned into bter BTC IOU's that cannot be withdrawn from bter but supposedly will become real BTC over time through income from trading fees. We then have to figure out a way we can allow people to withdraw both their bitgold/bitusd and their portion of the IOU, something that can't yet be done with UIA's.
Any further update?
And could you please comment on why there is no longer any bids on the CFSUSDA market?
+5%
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We're still trying to actually get withdrawals through. Once we have our gold and bitUSD out we will do a full calculation of losses and liabilities. Right now it looks as if about 30% of all CFSGOLD and CFSUSD funds have been turned into bter BTC IOU's that cannot be withdrawn from bter but supposedly will become real BTC over time through income from trading fees. We then have to figure out a way we can allow people to withdraw both their bitgold/bitusd and their portion of the IOU, something that can't yet be done with UIA's.
Any further update?
And could you please comment on why there is no longer any bids on the CFSUSDA market?
Sorry, I didn't realise they had run out.
Will put up more buy orders asap.
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We're still trying to actually get withdrawals through. Once we have our gold and bitUSD out we will do a full calculation of losses and liabilities. Right now it looks as if about 30% of all CFSGOLD and CFSUSD funds have been turned into bter BTC IOU's that cannot be withdrawn from bter but supposedly will become real BTC over time through income from trading fees. We then have to figure out a way we can allow people to withdraw both their bitgold/bitusd and their portion of the IOU, something that can't yet be done with UIA's.
I think you will have to create new UIAs CFSGOLDB and CFSUSDB and sharedrop those on a snapshot of their respective UIAs. So CFSGOLDB would be distributed to a 100% snapshot of CFSGOLD and CFSUSDB would be distributed to a 100% snapshot of CFSUSD. CFSGOLD would then become a claim on the amount of BitGold you can get out of BTER while CFSGOLDB will be a claim on the amount of BTC you can eventually get from BTER from the BTC IOUs on the 30% of BitGold they took. Similarly, CFSUSDB would become a claim on the amount of BitUSD you can get out of BTER while CFSUSDB will be a claim on the amount of BTC you can eventually get from BTER from the BTC IOUs on the 30% of BitUSD they took. Alternatively, perhaps you could instead combine CFSGOLDB and CFSUSDB into one UIA and just sharedrop that on a combined snapshot. Either way, when you finally received the BTC you will gradually need to convert the BTC to BitBTC (perhaps as a part of making the BTC/BitBTC markets?) so you can buy back and burn the CFS*B assets in the CFS*B/BitBTC market(s) on the BitShares DEX.
Does a mechanism currently exist for doing a sharedrop on UIA holders? It would be the best way to handle this but I don't know how we can do it. If its not possible to do at the moment then our options are to either auction off the IOU's and distribute the proceeds when we re-enable trading, or to take a snapshot and then do the sharedrop to the snapshot addresses at a later date when sharedrop tools have been developed.
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Does a mechanism currently exist for doing a sharedrop on UIA holders?
Nothing yet. At least not in the nice intuitive way where you just specify the amount and type of the dividend asset and the type of your UIA that you wish to distribute the dividend to (also nothing where the dividend issuing transaction size is fixed, and thus the transaction fee to issue the dividend is fixed).
You could always run a script that takes a map between addresses and amounts and makes the transfers one-by-one to each of the addresses for the corresponding amount of the UIA.
Then there is wallet_asset_issue_to_addresses (https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares/blob/bts/0.6.2/libraries/api/wallet_api.json#L1748-L1766). But like the description says wallet_asset_issue_to_addresses doesn't "do any magic for you" it just helps do the work of the script I discussed in the previous sentence on your behalf.
Of course, there is the possibility that the transaction exceeds the maximum transaction size (if there are many addresses to pay), in which case you would have to break up the map into pieces and use wallet_asset_issue_to_addresses multiple times (and pay multiple transaction fees).
Finally, you need to generate the map in the first place. It would nice if there was blockchain_generate_snapshot command that worked for any asset rather than just BTS. I'd imagine that it shouldn't be too difficult to create such a command. It seems like one could just copy the chain_database::generate_snapshot function and make some tweaks to support any non-BTS asset (it wouldn't need to worry about delegate pay balances, vesting balances, short order balances, or collateral balances, but it should be careful to pay attention to both asks and bids to not miss any markets that are trading the asset). One thing to wonder about is what would happen to assets protected by multisig or stored in escrow? I guess worst case scenario you tell your UIA holders to not hold the UIA in any multisig or escrow at the time of the pre-announced snapshot. Although it would be better if wallet_asset_issue_to_addresses allowed for reconstructing multisig withdraw conditions (then the snapshot generation tool would be augmented to support recording multisig balances and escrows could be treated as a 2-of-3 multisig).
It would be the best way to handle this but I don't know how we can do it. If its not possible to do at the moment then our options are to either auction off the IOU's and distribute the proceeds when we re-enable trading, or to take a snapshot and then do the sharedrop to the snapshot addresses at a later date when sharedrop tools have been developed.
Actually, yeah, I think it makes the most sense to just announce a snapshot and then resume the markets at a new NAV of 0.7 so people can withdraw their portion of their funds as soon as possible. The sharedrop would happen later (when there is a better support for it) but presumably the BTC repayment on the IOUs would take a while anyway.