0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Hi I'm new to this BTS stuff. Do I just need to have BTS in my wallet to get the BTS Play?
I can excuse only the too big to sell their entire position in reasonable time...For the rest of the post November 5th PTS holders - they can go to hell, if they expect future share drops.[disclaimer] One man's opinion only. Mine.PS sorry for posting partially off topic.
Is vested balance included in the snapshot? (I guess it is..)
Quote Market orders and collateral on market will also be honored too, the allocation to collateral will be divided between long and short according to current price feed.this means bitUSD is being share-dropped on? unlike, with sharedrop on BTS or PTS, bitUSD can be sold after snapshot for same value it is purchased for. it should be close to zero expense. and also additional benefit 1 bitUSD = 1.5 bitUSD worth of bitshares to be sharedropped on. crowd sale will raise less funds I think if people can just get playshares this way.
Market orders and collateral on market will also be honored too, the allocation to collateral will be divided between long and short according to current price feed.
AGS was used to fund the "life-giving" grant to PLAY ...how could it not get the larger allocation for which BM is advocates? Doing so is simply the fairest option there is and would be respectful of those who made it possible for you to pursue your dream.Hackerfish...please directly address why you do not support BM's, and many others, strong belief that PLAY allocation SHOULD more handsomely reward AGS over BTS. THANK YOU.
Quote from: bytemaster on November 12, 2014, 02:16:57 pmWhen snapshotting Play you should allocate collateral between shorts and longs based upon the price feed.I also feel that AGS/PTS deserve more than BTS simply because AGS was used to fund your grant Hack Fisher. So I would reverse the allocation if it were up to me. 10% BTS and 40% AGS/PTS.I would also not do a pre-sale of any form. Launch and fund with dilution. That said I am just one opinion of many so do what you think is best.I also support not to do crowdsale to avoid any legal issues.
When snapshotting Play you should allocate collateral between shorts and longs based upon the price feed.I also feel that AGS/PTS deserve more than BTS simply because AGS was used to fund your grant Hack Fisher. So I would reverse the allocation if it were up to me. 10% BTS and 40% AGS/PTS.I would also not do a pre-sale of any form. Launch and fund with dilution. That said I am just one opinion of many so do what you think is best.
Quote from: bytemaster on November 13, 2014, 01:04:13 amQuote from: HackFisher on November 12, 2014, 01:50:02 amQuote from: robrigo on November 11, 2014, 07:48:58 pmCan BTS that is locked up in a margin order be included in the snapshot? My gut tells me, probably not. Unless you were to take the initial BTS put up as collateral from each side of the trade?If not, will BTS locked up in orders as collateral be excluded from the total supply the 35% allocation is honoring?yes, as you described, market orders will not be included, the exactly definition would be the balance records in balance db (the balance you see in your wallet).HackFisher... all stake regardless of where it is located should be considered. If you need a script to dump it out for you that can be arranged. Lets not make this complicated.Yes, that's already been changed, market orders will be honored.
Quote from: HackFisher on November 12, 2014, 01:50:02 amQuote from: robrigo on November 11, 2014, 07:48:58 pmCan BTS that is locked up in a margin order be included in the snapshot? My gut tells me, probably not. Unless you were to take the initial BTS put up as collateral from each side of the trade?If not, will BTS locked up in orders as collateral be excluded from the total supply the 35% allocation is honoring?yes, as you described, market orders will not be included, the exactly definition would be the balance records in balance db (the balance you see in your wallet).HackFisher... all stake regardless of where it is located should be considered. If you need a script to dump it out for you that can be arranged. Lets not make this complicated.
Quote from: robrigo on November 11, 2014, 07:48:58 pmCan BTS that is locked up in a margin order be included in the snapshot? My gut tells me, probably not. Unless you were to take the initial BTS put up as collateral from each side of the trade?If not, will BTS locked up in orders as collateral be excluded from the total supply the 35% allocation is honoring?yes, as you described, market orders will not be included, the exactly definition would be the balance records in balance db (the balance you see in your wallet).
Can BTS that is locked up in a margin order be included in the snapshot? My gut tells me, probably not. Unless you were to take the initial BTS put up as collateral from each side of the trade?If not, will BTS locked up in orders as collateral be excluded from the total supply the 35% allocation is honoring?
I assume that if we haven't yet converted our BTS from the Feb 28 PTS/AGS snapshot that they will still be allocated in PLAY. Similar to DNS and VOTE. Is this correct?
I also feel that AGS/PTS deserve more than BTS simply because AGS was used to fund your grant Hack Fisher. So I would reverse the allocation if it were up to me. 10% BTS and 40% AGS/PTS.
Quote from: 天籁 on November 12, 2014, 04:18:00 amQuote from: HackFisher on November 12, 2014, 01:50:02 amQuote from: robrigo on November 11, 2014, 07:48:58 pmCan BTS that is locked up in a margin order be included in the snapshot? My gut tells me, probably not. Unless you were to take the initial BTS put up as collateral from each side of the trade?If not, will BTS locked up in orders as collateral be excluded from the total supply the 35% allocation is honoring?yes, as you described, market orders will not be included, the exactly definition would be the balance records in balance db (the balance you see in your wallet).This will kill the market.We are currently evaluating this, and after a few tests, we may honor the market orders (_ask_db, _bid_db, _short_odb, _collateral_db) if the tests showing that it's OK to do so.
Quote from: HackFisher on November 12, 2014, 01:50:02 amQuote from: robrigo on November 11, 2014, 07:48:58 pmCan BTS that is locked up in a margin order be included in the snapshot? My gut tells me, probably not. Unless you were to take the initial BTS put up as collateral from each side of the trade?If not, will BTS locked up in orders as collateral be excluded from the total supply the 35% allocation is honoring?yes, as you described, market orders will not be included, the exactly definition would be the balance records in balance db (the balance you see in your wallet).This will kill the market.
Quote from: fuzzy on November 11, 2014, 07:13:31 pmQuote from: godzirra on November 11, 2014, 06:50:34 pmI find this allocation to be ridiculous. Post Feb 28 holders are supposed to be rewarded for making much of this possible. Instead Btsx gets another huge allocation. Of course Hack fisher can do whatever he wants. But it is absurd in my opinion.Here godzirra goes again..! From the ocean you can see his monstrous frame rise steadily, pools of water rushing down his scales like whitewater down a mountain pass...as he treads into the shores of bitshares playland. He is looking for a million points...a record even his mother never achieved. Men=10, women=15, children and elderly=20. Buildings=400, Key infrastructure=1500. Go our little angry lizard go! I think godzirra has a valid point I also made before here! Someone might have donated after feb 28th to AGS and gets close to nothing although he contributed the most to PLAY in terms of funding. Getting BTSX holders behind PLAY makes sense too but why should they get so much more than AGS/PTS without having contributed to funding?
Quote from: godzirra on November 11, 2014, 06:50:34 pmI find this allocation to be ridiculous. Post Feb 28 holders are supposed to be rewarded for making much of this possible. Instead Btsx gets another huge allocation. Of course Hack fisher can do whatever he wants. But it is absurd in my opinion.Here godzirra goes again..! From the ocean you can see his monstrous frame rise steadily, pools of water rushing down his scales like whitewater down a mountain pass...as he treads into the shores of bitshares playland. He is looking for a million points...a record even his mother never achieved. Men=10, women=15, children and elderly=20. Buildings=400, Key infrastructure=1500. Go our little angry lizard go!
I find this allocation to be ridiculous. Post Feb 28 holders are supposed to be rewarded for making much of this possible. Instead Btsx gets another huge allocation. Of course Hack fisher can do whatever he wants. But it is absurd in my opinion.
We are currently evaluating this, and after a few tests, we may honor the market orders (_ask_db, _bid_db, _short_odb, _collateral_db) if the tests showing that it's OK to do so.
Quote from: HackFisher on November 12, 2014, 01:50:02 amQuote from: robrigo on November 11, 2014, 07:48:58 pmCan BTS that is locked up in a margin order be included in the snapshot? My gut tells me, probably not. Unless you were to take the initial BTS put up as collateral from each side of the trade?If not, will BTS locked up in orders as collateral be excluded from the total supply the 35% allocation is honoring?yes, as you described, market orders will not be included, the exactly definition would be the balance records in balance db (the balance you see in your wallet).I don't see the technical reason why it has to be this way. Why couldn't BTS held in collateral be included as part of the snapshot and claimed in the new DAC using a signature from the same key that allows the BTS to be unlocked from collateral or open orders (the signatures on transactions that are authorized either to cancel an open order to sell BTS or short a BitAsset, or to cover a short position)?
Quote from: HackFisher on November 08, 2014, 09:55:13 amInitial and maximum total supply is 2 billion.1. BTS holders 35%The block to take the snapshot on BTS undecided, BTS being the SuperDAC after the merger. The number of the block will be published after BTS being launched. To simplify this, the block the merge happening is preferred to be the one BitShares PLAY honoring, but this depend on the details plan from BTS, we need to get the exact snapshot time so that we can inform the exchanges to take snapshot too.2. AGS holders 10%3. PTS holders 10%The block to take the snapshot on PTS is on November 5, 2014. This is also the anniversary snapshot for both BTS and PLAY.4. Crowd Saling 20%The start time and details will be announced later, please stay tuned.5. Development and Marketing 15%Long-term development, including a part to cover costs in pre-launch period.6. Reserved Funds 10%Reserved fund is for specific purposes including Faucet, Business Development, Game Incubation, long-term ecosystem building. Reserved Fund will be locked on initial launch, and will be linear unlocked monthly after launch in 1 year.Please refer http://bitsharesplayfoundation.org/ for details.Trying to work out what where I am losing out on anything, so will be back with a long list of complaints soon 1. Still unhappy at the 5 day announcement of PTS snapshot.2. .... (thinking)Seriously though, reasonably fair suggestion considering the complicated landscape.
Initial and maximum total supply is 2 billion.1. BTS holders 35%The block to take the snapshot on BTS undecided, BTS being the SuperDAC after the merger. The number of the block will be published after BTS being launched. To simplify this, the block the merge happening is preferred to be the one BitShares PLAY honoring, but this depend on the details plan from BTS, we need to get the exact snapshot time so that we can inform the exchanges to take snapshot too.2. AGS holders 10%3. PTS holders 10%The block to take the snapshot on PTS is on November 5, 2014. This is also the anniversary snapshot for both BTS and PLAY.4. Crowd Saling 20%The start time and details will be announced later, please stay tuned.5. Development and Marketing 15%Long-term development, including a part to cover costs in pre-launch period.6. Reserved Funds 10%Reserved fund is for specific purposes including Faucet, Business Development, Game Incubation, long-term ecosystem building. Reserved Fund will be locked on initial launch, and will be linear unlocked monthly after launch in 1 year.Please refer http://bitsharesplayfoundation.org/ for details.
I hope I made my point clear - not a native speaker...
Your opinion seems to be shared by a number of people who used to promote and stand behind the concept of PTS. A lot of people sold their PTS because they thought, for whatever reason, the social contract transferred to BTS.
I blame the term "merger" for the confusion. There wasn't a merger.Nothing was bought or sold. If Pepsi share dropped 10:1 Pepsi:Coke shares on all holders of Coke stock would anyone think that Pepsi just bought out Coke, or the value of Coke? No, they'd say: Sweet - thanks for the free shares.
I can excuse only the too big to sell their entire position in reasonable time...For the rest of the post November 5th PTS holders - they can go to hell, if they expect future share drops.[disclaimer] One man's opinion only. Mine.
for this allocation.Anything you do you're going to have a group of super happy people, a group of satisfied people, and a group that thinks their getting screwed. Just have to put your stake in the ground .Looking forward to PLAY.
Quote from: HackFisher on November 08, 2014, 09:55:13 amPlease refer http://bitsharesplayfoundation.org/ for details.I don't think the subscription form at the bottom of the page is working. When trying to submit, the email field gets highlighted in red.
Please refer http://bitsharesplayfoundation.org/ for details.
Quote from: feedthemcake on November 08, 2014, 02:01:24 pmQuote from: HackFisher on November 08, 2014, 11:56:01 amAh, I get your point. The reason make sense, but I still think it's better to avoid any further change, since BTS are merging AGS/PTS and want to give it an end. I thought The AGS/PTS contributions are already well evaluated by being merged to BTS, and the 10/10 AGS/PTS is an extra reward to PTSer/AGSer's support to BitShares DACs. I don't even clear whether third party DACs are still required to honor AGS/PTS, but PLAY do. Stan has made posts stating that they invite and fully expect 3rd parties will honor PTS/AGS holders as a means of gaining more traction. I am of the belief that this will also be the case. Some of the PTS/AGS holders will be very frustrated that they will no longer receive sharedrops from BTS...which will create a pretty big divide for some. Many who want to compete in this space will see this divide as an opportunity and will see a great opportunity in sharedropping on them. Why? Because PTS/AGS holders were who composed the core community that helped bring BitShares the second largest community in crypto--despite a practical media blackout that BitShares had to endure from the Proof of Waste (PoW) community.
Quote from: HackFisher on November 08, 2014, 11:56:01 amAh, I get your point. The reason make sense, but I still think it's better to avoid any further change, since BTS are merging AGS/PTS and want to give it an end. I thought The AGS/PTS contributions are already well evaluated by being merged to BTS, and the 10/10 AGS/PTS is an extra reward to PTSer/AGSer's support to BitShares DACs. I don't even clear whether third party DACs are still required to honor AGS/PTS, but PLAY do.
Ah, I get your point. The reason make sense, but I still think it's better to avoid any further change, since BTS are merging AGS/PTS and want to give it an end. I thought The AGS/PTS contributions are already well evaluated by being merged to BTS, and the 10/10 AGS/PTS is an extra reward to PTSer/AGSer's support to BitShares DACs. I don't even clear whether third party DACs are still required to honor AGS/PTS, but PLAY do.
I get snapshot from my funds that will be vesting in BTS as well?
Quote from: HackFisher on November 08, 2014, 11:19:25 amQuote from: delulo on November 08, 2014, 10:59:41 amQuote from: Shentist on November 08, 2014, 10:52:31 amQuote from: delulo on November 08, 2014, 10:44:32 amGiven that PLAY will have its own chain...I understand that BTS has the bigger network effect but is 10/10 AGS/PTS and 35 BTS reasonable? AGS/PTS were the ones that enabled this and AGS/PTS are the proto coins with all the early supporters...Hackfisher can do as he pleases as long as the social consensus honored. so this allocation is fine. why start complaining? This allocation is totally fine.Sure he can do what he wants! Support is based on a perception of fairness. It was the same with the Music DAC which also offered 10/10 initially. The discussion after the allocation announcement in the end lead to a better allocation. Discussion (not complaining) is never bad. As for me: I will support the PLAY DAC ANYWAY but I would find it more "fair" to have more for AGS/PTS since AGS/PTS contributed something of value (initial funding for the toolkit). I can understand the people who held AGS/PTS but already sold BTSX might have concerns like you. But as soon as it's the BTS holder now are supporting the current codebase of BTS/BTSX, or toolkit, and PLAY is forking that codebase in some sense, so I think it is not a bad choice. And I was involved in BTSX to some extent, play will be more successful with support from BTS community members, they are holding here at least.For Play, it will have a more wide distribution.I did not sell any BTSX. The reason I brought it up is that there is a difference between the AGS holders that were honored by BTSX (pre Feb28 AGS donators) and all AGS donators (before and after Feb28).
Quote from: delulo on November 08, 2014, 10:59:41 amQuote from: Shentist on November 08, 2014, 10:52:31 amQuote from: delulo on November 08, 2014, 10:44:32 amGiven that PLAY will have its own chain...I understand that BTS has the bigger network effect but is 10/10 AGS/PTS and 35 BTS reasonable? AGS/PTS were the ones that enabled this and AGS/PTS are the proto coins with all the early supporters...Hackfisher can do as he pleases as long as the social consensus honored. so this allocation is fine. why start complaining? This allocation is totally fine.Sure he can do what he wants! Support is based on a perception of fairness. It was the same with the Music DAC which also offered 10/10 initially. The discussion after the allocation announcement in the end lead to a better allocation. Discussion (not complaining) is never bad. As for me: I will support the PLAY DAC ANYWAY but I would find it more "fair" to have more for AGS/PTS since AGS/PTS contributed something of value (initial funding for the toolkit). I can understand the people who held AGS/PTS but already sold BTSX might have concerns like you. But as soon as it's the BTS holder now are supporting the current codebase of BTS/BTSX, or toolkit, and PLAY is forking that codebase in some sense, so I think it is not a bad choice. And I was involved in BTSX to some extent, play will be more successful with support from BTS community members, they are holding here at least.For Play, it will have a more wide distribution.
Quote from: Shentist on November 08, 2014, 10:52:31 amQuote from: delulo on November 08, 2014, 10:44:32 amGiven that PLAY will have its own chain...I understand that BTS has the bigger network effect but is 10/10 AGS/PTS and 35 BTS reasonable? AGS/PTS were the ones that enabled this and AGS/PTS are the proto coins with all the early supporters...Hackfisher can do as he pleases as long as the social consensus honored. so this allocation is fine. why start complaining? This allocation is totally fine.Sure he can do what he wants! Support is based on a perception of fairness. It was the same with the Music DAC which also offered 10/10 initially. The discussion after the allocation announcement in the end lead to a better allocation. Discussion (not complaining) is never bad. As for me: I will support the PLAY DAC ANYWAY but I would find it more "fair" to have more for AGS/PTS since AGS/PTS contributed something of value (initial funding for the toolkit).
Quote from: delulo on November 08, 2014, 10:44:32 amGiven that PLAY will have its own chain...I understand that BTS has the bigger network effect but is 10/10 AGS/PTS and 35 BTS reasonable? AGS/PTS were the ones that enabled this and AGS/PTS are the proto coins with all the early supporters...Hackfisher can do as he pleases as long as the social consensus honored. so this allocation is fine. why start complaining? This allocation is totally fine.
Given that PLAY will have its own chain...I understand that BTS has the bigger network effect but is 10/10 AGS/PTS and 35 BTS reasonable? AGS/PTS were the ones that enabled this and AGS/PTS are the proto coins with all the early supporters...
I could not follow things super closely lately.Will PLAY be included into the BTS chain?