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Messages - FreeTrade

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661
General Discussion / Re: Decentralizing Mining - The future of BitShares Mining
« on: November 20, 2013, 06:00:20 am »
Quote from: bytemaster on November 20, 2013, 05:50:22 am
I want to eliminate the MINE AND DUMP strategy, mining should only benefit those who are committed.

This would be good if it were possible - I think you'll just see a futures market.

A better approach is to concentrate on making it super easy for many people to mine small amounts - amounts small enough that they're not rushing for the exits. I think you want mass adoption across millions of desktop pc to make the business of mining impossible. Concentrate on easy-to-use pool mining clients.

662
General Discussion / Re: Decentralizing Mining - The future of BitShares Mining
« on: November 20, 2013, 05:47:05 am »
Quote from: bytemaster on November 20, 2013, 05:40:17 am
a pool that is selling future production will act in the best interest of the coin

I think you might be considering rash measures to deal with a problem that might prove to be short-term, and better dealt with in other ways. How does Bitcoin deal with this? I assume by waiting for pools to act in their rational self-interest. Maybe consider a soft fork requiring more than 1 transaction per block to encourage ypool to update their userbase. Even knowing you're considering a measure like that should encourage them to put their skates on.

663
General Discussion / Re: Decentralizing Mining - The future of BitShares Mining
« on: November 20, 2013, 05:34:29 am »
Quote from: bytemaster on November 20, 2013, 05:27:38 am
Professionals can use stand alone miners that are 100% pool based, but of course would have to find a pool willing to finance their mining for 6 months.   

I don't know about this - I think a pool could pre-sell the blocks they find for Bitcoin - so someone would have to finance it, but it wouldn't necessarily have to be the pool operator or miners. You might find a very small number of sophisticated individuals financing the pools with BTC, and the pools paying the miners in BTC, so you'd have reduced distribution rather than wider distribution.

664
General Discussion / Re: Decentralizing Mining - The future of BitShares Mining
« on: November 20, 2013, 05:23:10 am »
Quote from: bytemaster on November 20, 2013, 05:05:02 am
With BitShares people will already see a steady growth in their stash from dividends. 

That's great, but we want to get people started, and they'll start at 0.

Quote from: bytemaster on November 20, 2013, 05:05:02 am
I honestly couldn't care about a well-behaved process that uses 25% of my CPU when IDLE with a low priority setting and 99% of users wouldn't even know how to monitor their CPU usage and wouldn't look at it unless something else was slowing their computer down.  Having an option to 'turn it off' would allow those who it really bothers to turn it off.

That's fine - I'm saying get them keyed into a pool so they are seeing immediate rewards. Add in luckybit's idea of unpredictable and variable rewards, and it'll start to get compelling.

665
General Discussion / Re: Decentralizing Mining - The future of BitShares Mining
« on: November 20, 2013, 05:20:33 am »
Quote from: luckybit on November 20, 2013, 05:08:40 am
Quote from: FreeTrade on November 20, 2013, 04:59:18 am
I don't know that a mining lottery will provide enough excitement. With a regular lottery, the excitement is anticipation before the draw, and then an intense 30 seconds while the numbers are drawn. Users will tire of a process that draws 25% of their computing power and provides no benefits.

I've had very few takers for my optimized solo miner which essentially provides the same lottery effect.

Users want to see a steady increase in their fortune, I suggest working with that rather than against it. What we need is an easy to use pool miner (Press a button in the GUI) and a selection of pools to choose from (open source pool software), and rapid payouts - users should see their balances ticking up after a few blocks . . 15 minutes or so. All of these things have been achieved already in other coins - I recommend looking at infinitecoin for a good example, although it could be even better. We get these things right, we'll see a rapid adoption by unsophisticated users without capital costs, and drive the dedicated miners out of business.

Frequent rewards of different sizes are necessary to get people to adopt a new behavior pattern. People prefer frequent rewards. The chance to win very large rewards is important too. Seriously study the Netcoin proposals because many of these ideas have been discussed in detail. We came up with some solutions on the Netcoin thread which are included on the portal http://www.netcoin.io/wiki/Netcoin:Community_Portal

It even includes an idea similar to DACs called the Netcoin Community-Oriented Decentralized Social Organization Supported by Blockchain which I proposed. It was supposed to be based on Colored Coin and it was before there was a Mastercoin or before I had heard about Bitshares.

The lottery system for Netcoin was set up so people who crowd funded it by buying the coins in advance would get a ticket. Then they would get the coins they paid for but it wouldn't be all at once but over a period of time and this delay was to make them into long term supporters who would work hard to make these coins as valuable as possible. Basically it was a similar goal to what protoshares is trying to do.

I will see if I can help contribute some new ideas to this problem or perhaps see if I can come up with my own DAC which takes full advantage of a bunch of new ideas. I think the main concepts useful for solving this problem are diversity and unpredictability. When you combine both to rewards and proof of work then you get closer to the solution.

Maybe a hybrid pool/solo miner with a slider allowing users to adjust between 10% to 90% solo/pool.

666
General Discussion / Re: Decentralizing Mining - The future of BitShares Mining
« on: November 20, 2013, 04:59:18 am »
I don't know that a mining lottery will provide enough excitement. With a regular lottery, the excitement is anticipation before the draw, and then an intense 30 seconds while the numbers are drawn. Users will tire of a process that draws 25% of their computing power and provides no benefits.

I've had very few takers for my optimized solo miner which essentially provides the same lottery effect.

Users want to see a steady increase in their fortune, I suggest working with that rather than against it. What we need is an easy to use pool miner (Press a button in the GUI) and a selection of pools to choose from (open source pool software), and rapid payouts - users should see their balances ticking up after a few blocks . . 15 minutes or so. All of these things have been achieved already in other coins - I recommend looking at infinitecoin for a good example, although it could be even better. We get these things right, we'll see a rapid adoption by unsophisticated users without capital costs, and drive the dedicated miners out of business.








667
BitShares PTS / Re: ProtoShares explorer, simulator & co
« on: November 19, 2013, 05:06:50 am »
Quote from: crazydownloaded on November 17, 2013, 09:13:45 pm
I've just added support for PTS on my website: http://coinplorer.com/PTS
It's still importing though, not yet up to date (see importation status on http://coinplorer.com/Console/Status2).
Unfortunately PTS is not yet supported on major exchanges so I don't have historical prices, I'll try to find a an exchange to provide prices.

This is cool - but 3 days behind - maybe needs a restart or updated software?

668
BitShares PTS / Re: [ANN] ypool.net + Custom high speed miner (up to 500% faster)
« on: November 18, 2013, 05:26:52 pm »
Quote from: jh00 on November 17, 2013, 08:18:32 pm

See my post here
There is no evil intention, just a lack of time on my side.

That's good to hear but please give this issue priority - it's beginning to make PTS look broken and may be affecting market price. Obviously by virtue of your large pool, you've a big investment in PTS, so it's in your interests more than anyone else to get this resolved.

Pool miners - please consider other pools until this issue is resolved - you're harming the coin by letting this slide.

669
BitShares PTS / Re: Algorithm efficiency with memory usage
« on: November 17, 2013, 09:50:52 am »
Yes. The algorithm in the stock client uses a bucket size, I think it allows for 8 entries. Once that's full, it starts discarding new entries - although they are checked for collisions before being discarded. About 10% get discarded. So we lose about 1% of collisions. Doubling the bucket size means fewer entries are discarded, or better, doubling the number of buckets means there are fewer entries in each bucket and can be searched faster.   

670
General Discussion / Re: $5000 Bounty - Dividend Paying ProtoShares
« on: November 15, 2013, 06:43:28 pm »
Okay I think I've got it - the dividends are funds which aren't explicitly recorded in the blockchain, but which can be inferred by examination of the blockchain. The cleanest implementation I can think of would be to add them as coinbase transactions that are immediately spendable and spent in the block in which they are added. Conceptually, it's very clean, but implementation would require very careful work. You'd have to be extra careful to avoid ruling out the possibility of a lightweight client in the future. 

671
General Discussion / Re: $5000 Bounty - Dividend Paying ProtoShares
« on: November 15, 2013, 04:57:54 am »
Hmm - one issue I encountered with MemoryCoin voting was that it was never clear in the outputs which address was receiving the funds and which was the change address. You might have a similar issue here - how do you know which output address to award the dividend to?
If you start awarding the dividend to the sending address, then there may be no way to clear a balance to zero - there is always dust there.
 

672
General Discussion / Re: $5000 Bounty - Dividend Paying ProtoShares
« on: November 15, 2013, 03:35:45 am »
Quote from: bytemaster on November 14, 2013, 05:14:48 pm
Dividends are paid as part of every transaction.   You can always calculate your balance as OUTPUT + Dividends Available Upon Spending.   

So if you receive 100 PTS it will sit as an 'unspent output' for  X blocks.   Each block will pay Y dividends per PTS but these are not transferred to anyone yet.    When you spend the output with 100 PTS you then calculate the dividends due and add it to the input value of a trx.   In this way, dividends have 0 extra overhead in trx volume.

So if I spend 100 PTS and have 10PTS waiting for me in dividends, the input is increased to 110PTS, and the recipient still gets 100PTS, but the 10 goes back to me as additional change?

673
General Discussion / Re: $5000 Bounty - Dividend Paying ProtoShares
« on: November 14, 2013, 11:38:43 am »
Hmmm - how frequently are the dividends to be payed? What triggers a payment in the blockchain?

674
BitShares PTS / Re: FreeTrade's Opimized Solo Miner for ProtoShares - 2.9% fee.
« on: November 14, 2013, 05:33:06 am »
Updated - comparable speeds now to any of the pool or solo miners. Easy to use!

675
BitShares PTS / Re: GetWork Miner 120 HPM on 3.4Ghz i7 3x faster than coyote pool miner
« on: November 14, 2013, 03:55:51 am »
i7-4770 (4GB,1 Chip) - 121 hpm (cpm??)
i7-3770 (8GB,2 Chip) - 132 hpm
Core 2 Duo - T6600 - 21 hpm

Interesting that the i7-3770 should outperform the i7-4770, I put this down to its memory being spread out over 2 chips.

Older machines achieve a much lower cpm obviously, but I think at reasonable power usage levels - so hoping we'll see large pools of old computers from individual miners, rather than capital intensive commercial mining.
 

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