BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: bytemaster on January 28, 2014, 05:48:50 pm
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Everyone is familiar with the +1 convention... well we have recognized that we can take anyone's great idea (Ethereum, Mastercoin, Nxt, etc) and offer people the same investment opportunity +5% or more.
To that end we would like everyone who supports what we are doing to use +5% on every forum they use when they would normally use +1.
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+5% , noted!
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+5%
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Haha, they will love this
+5%
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Like it. +5%
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Clever +5%
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+5%
We need a +5% smiley.
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+5%
We need a +5% smiley.
Use "+ 1" without the space... +1
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+5% :)
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already, both " + 1" and " + 5%" is automatically converted to the smiley
Let's +5% +5% +5% +5% +5%
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+5% +5% +5% .. works :)
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+5%
We need a +5% smiley.
Use "+ 1" without the space... +1
+1
Neat :D
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+1
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lol +1
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I guess not everyone is impressed by the +5%... http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2014/01/28/bitcoin-conference-miami/
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I guess not everyone is impressed by the +5%... http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2014/01/28/bitcoin-conference-miami/
Ad- and disadvantages to the fixed 5% meme. Attracts attention but can come across as ponzi. It's like going all in at poker. If you are 100% sure you can guarentee the 5% you may surprise and convince like bitcoin did. If you have to step back from it you might loose credit... All you need is trust and people dont trust things that are too good to be true.... In my opinion it is definitely not a good idea if you are not 100% sure yet that it's gonna be 5%
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Can't wait for the ignore/laugh/fight/lose cycle re: 5‰
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I guess not everyone is impressed by the +5%... http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2014/01/28/bitcoin-conference-miami/
Ad- and disadvantages to the fixed 5% meme. Attracts attention but can come across as ponzi. It's like going all in at poker. If you are 100% sure you can guarentee the 5% you may surprise and convince like bitcoin did. If you have to step back from it you might loose credit... All you need is trust and people dont trust things that are too good to be true.... In my opinion it is definitely not a good idea if you are not 100% sure yet that it's gonna be 5%
Actually I am 100% sure the first one will be 5%, hard coded into the block chain.
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I guess not everyone is impressed by the +5%... http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2014/01/28/bitcoin-conference-miami/
Ad- and disadvantages to the fixed 5% meme. Attracts attention but can come across as ponzi. It's like going all in at poker. If you are 100% sure you can guarentee the 5% you may surprise and convince like bitcoin did. If you have to step back from it you might loose credit... All you need is trust and people dont trust things that are too good to be true.... In my opinion it is definitely not a good idea if you are not 100% sure yet that it's gonna be 5%
Actually I am 100% sure the first one will be 5%, hard coded into the block chain.
+5%
So the discussion about at that other thread was more a long term perspective?
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I guess not everyone is impressed by the +5%... http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2014/01/28/bitcoin-conference-miami/
Ad- and disadvantages to the fixed 5% meme. Attracts attention but can come across as ponzi. It's like going all in at poker. If you are 100% sure you can guarentee the 5% you may surprise and convince like bitcoin did. If you have to step back from it you might loose credit... All you need is trust and people dont trust things that are too good to be true.... In my opinion it is definitely not a good idea if you are not 100% sure yet that it's gonna be 5%
Actually I am 100% sure the first one will be 5%, hard coded into the block chain.
+5%
So the discussion about at that other thread was more a long term perspective?
Yes, anything other than 5% will be more complex and harder to communicate. As long as we understand the economic result of hardcoding 5% which I think is fine because it is no different than hardcoding 0% other than shifting the ratios by a 'constant' factor.
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+5%
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+5%? On MY usd?
It's more likely than you think
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to be honest i dont realy think, this is such a great idea and to many people would start using this. i have no idea of marketing and stuff like that though.
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to be honest i dont realy think, this is such a great idea and to many people would start using this. i have no idea of marketing and stuff like that though.
+5%
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to be honest i dont realy think, this is such a great idea and to many people would start using this. i have no idea of marketing and stuff like that though.
+5%
+1 to your +5%
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to be honest i dont realy think, this is such a great idea and to many people would start using this. i have no idea of marketing and stuff like that though.
+5%
+1 to your +5%
Now I am all confused... ;)
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+5%
PTS: PjyBnWVCKaDhNvGEM9Xb6pcggirWnEU7tH
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+5%
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to be honest i dont realy think, this is such a great idea and to many people would start using this. i have no idea of marketing and stuff like that though.
+5%
+1 to your +5%
The thing I love about this forum is that a lot of great minds come together and push us toward improving everything. After debates on whether or not BitAssets even need interest I have concluded that they do not and that any interest will serve as a 'constant' offset in price. Implementing interest will take extra time that I am sure someone will experiment with after the initial release.
So given the fact that markets will find a way of undoing my 5% interest by adjusting prices elsewhere and the risk is so low due to collateral it seems best to simplify everything and just use 0% interest. BitUSD will be on par with cash in your pocket or a gold coin in your hand. You hold it because you want price stability not for its yield.
So I will ask Amazon to remove the +5% meme and replace the +5% with old school + 1 so that we can avoid confusion.
This means this marketing meme is now over despite being very good and catchy. It also seems to draw negative attention and scam accusations.
I do think it would be a fun experiment to implement interest in a chain, but at this point time getting something on the market with value is probably best.
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What was the reason you gave before about how we need interest to make shorting more different from just selling?
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What was the reason you gave before about how we need interest to make shorting more different from just selling?
It seemed to make sense to me at the time that if you borrow the asset into existence that you should pay interest. But I think that metaphor may have lead us down the wrong path.
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I was thinking about this also, especially from the perspective of Warren Buffett, who believes that a company should not pay dividends since that suggest the company does not know how to reinvest excess capital back into the company. Within the bitshares network, obviously the dividend system is a little different than one would find when investing in a traditional company in the stock market, but I think that Buffett's sentiment holds true in this instance as well. The +5% idea, while good for early adoption, disrupts the stability of prices on the exchange. If bitshares were to continue with +5% then those dividends would serve as excess profits for the stake holders in the network, rather than a "reinvestment" in the network in order to stabilize prices on the exchange. While getting rid of +5% may be an immediate sacrifice this course of action would further bolster the utility of the network, which serves to stabilize prices, thereby demonstrating that crypto currencies can be a means of storing value as well as a great medium of exchange.
As Buffett has shown through his own management of Berkshire, if a company reinvests the capital that they would have otherwise wasted in dividends shareholders will profit even more due to rising share prices. I think the same can be said of bitshares. If this network does provide derivative assets that maintain stable prices more people will begin to use it, consequently making bts appreciate in value.
With all that being said, you never really know...Perhaps +5% is a good idea. Why not put out three different test nets (if thats not too much excess work). One with +5%, one with +0% and another with floating interest rates. I don't think you can accurately predict which will be the best construction at this point in time. I have seen you say that +0% was not good in the past, or at least prone to the same inefficiencies as pegging the interest rate to +5%.
Not sure if all of these networks would be feasible to implement in a reasonable amount of time, but I think diversification may be the best solution.
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Diversification is key, so they will be launched in simplest form first and move toward most complex.
0% requires no new code and is done today.
5% requires some tricky new code...
Variable % requires some very tricky new code...
So we will release them as we make progress.
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Sounds great!
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Thanks for the update and explanation, as always
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Diversification is key, so they will be launched in simplest form first and move toward most complex.
0% requires no new code and is done today.
5% requires some tricky new code...
Variable % requires some very tricky new code...
So we will release them as we make progress.
Would those changes require a new chain each or can the then old chain be patched?
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Diversification is key, so they will be launched in simplest form first and move toward most complex.
0% requires no new code and is done today.
5% requires some tricky new code...
Variable % requires some very tricky new code...
So we will release them as we make progress.
This has rather serious implications. Wouldn't it be possible and advisable to reassign most productive capacity to Keyhotee development and release while this is mulled over in the forum?
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Diversification is key, so they will be launched in simplest form first and move toward most complex.
0% requires no new code and is done today.
5% requires some tricky new code...
Variable % requires some very tricky new code...
So we will release them as we make progress.
This has rather serious implications. Wouldn't it be possible and advisable to reassign most productive capacity to Keyhotee development and release while this is mulled over in the forum?
?
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Is everything falling apart right now?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I don't see where the concern lies... it doesn't sound like anything is falling apart. It seems there will be three iterations of the software, with each subsequent iteration becoming more complex. A network with no dividends is still a perfectly good network, and it would behoove i3 to move as quickly as possible to release bitshares x in order to be the first in the market.
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Network will have dividends. Just not interest.
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Wait so where do the dividends come from and where does the interest come from? How can there be dividends if there arent fees? Or am I missing something?
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Dividends come from transaction fees.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
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Dividends come from transaction fees.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
But just for bts, right?
And would those changes require a new chain each or can the then old chain be patched?
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Need to update http://www.invictus.io/bitsharesx.php then. :\
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to be honest i dont realy think, this is such a great idea and to many people would start using this. i have no idea of marketing and stuff like that though.
+5%
+1 to your +5%
The thing I love about this forum is that a lot of great minds come together and push us toward improving everything. After debates on whether or not BitAssets even need interest I have concluded that they do not and that any interest will serve as a 'constant' offset in price. Implementing interest will take extra time that I am sure someone will experiment with after the initial release.
So given the fact that markets will find a way of undoing my 5% interest by adjusting prices elsewhere and the risk is so low due to collateral it seems best to simplify everything and just use 0% interest. BitUSD will be on par with cash in your pocket or a gold coin in your hand. You hold it because you want price stability not for its yield.
So I will ask Amazon to remove the +5% meme and replace the +5% with old school + 1 so that we can avoid confusion.
This means this marketing meme is now over despite being very good and catchy. It also seems to draw negative attention and scam accusations.
I do think it would be a fun experiment to implement interest in a chain, but at this point time getting something on the market with value is probably best.
I think that's brilliant.
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Need to update http://www.invictus.io/bitsharesx.php then. :\
I would definitely recommend taking this down. If this was an SEC registered security it would be a clear violation. Projects like this are potentially walking that tightrope already. Just my 2 cents.
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+0%, interesting
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So BitSharesX needs a new tag line, probably focused more on the ability to further reduce market friction than on giving people free money... :P
"Bring the market together."?
"Own your portfolio."?
"Trade anything, anywhere."?
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So BitSharesX needs a new tag line, probably focused more on the ability to further reduce market friction than on giving people free money... :P
"Bring the market together."?
"Own your portfolio."?
"Trade anything, anywhere."?
The flux capacitor of finance, moving value through time and space.
Yes we are trying to come up with a new tag line, any ideas are welcome!
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"Free your market."? Then you could have lots of variants to keep things interesting. "Free your market from distance." "Free your market from middle-men."
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+5% nice
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"Free your market."? Then you could have lots of variants to keep things interesting. "Free your market from distance." "Free your market from middle-men."
I like it.
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Also with the "Free your market." tagline we get to do Matrix "Free your mind." parodies:
*Neo opens eyes*
Neo: "I know Austrian Economics."
Morpheus: "Show me."
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Also with the "Free your market." tagline we get to do Matrix "Free your mind." parodies:
*Neo opens eyes*
Neo: "I know Austrian Economics."
Morpheus: "Show me."
You think that's air you're breathing?
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You think that's money you're earning?
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+1