BitShares Forum
Other => Graveyard => DAC PLAY => Topic started by: MrJeans on April 07, 2014, 10:19:17 pm
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Just want to gauge what people think would make for a fun DAC ;D
Add more suggestions below if you chose 'something else'
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Even though I play a lot of online poker, I chose Lottery.
All the other games are pretty well represented online with fairly high 'trust' ratings, so there's not that much advantage to having them as DAC's. Having said that, as the crypto-economy grows, being the leading poker/bingo/casino DAC will still be very lucrative.
The lottery DAC on the other hand can double the average players winning odds because of the 50% waste in the current centralised real world model, so there's a real opportunity there to be a really disruptive game-changing, excuse the pun DAC IMO.
Edit: Another advantage is that our crypto-currencies are borderless, so the long term potential is that the leading lottery could ultimately become a global lottery - much bigger than any current lottery - being able to offer bigger prizes at much better odds is something real world counterparts could never compete with.
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I would like to see some chess tournaments and people betting each other or even bet to another player if they wish.. :)
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I would like to see some chess tournaments and people betting each other or even bet to another player if they wish.. :)
I don't really play chess, but I know it's really popular.
I think the problem though is that chess computer programmes can beat the best human players, so you don't see much 2 human player chess and/or gambling online because people will just use computer programmes instead to win.
Edit: What do people think about sports betting? I don't know if it falls under gaming but Bytemaster came up with a great approach using external feeds. I don't think there's anyone in the crypto-economy offering that yet, so getting in there first with a workable solution could be a big winner.
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Hey all, I'm the founder of Gamerholic.com (http://Gamerholic.com) a crypto currency arcade.
Win bitcoin playing video games. This can be console games, mobile games, browser games etc.
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Craps! This will be a bit harder than a simple lottery, as state has to be maintained, but I think it is more fun than any simple memory-less game.
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I would like to see some chess tournaments and people betting each other or even bet to another player if they wish.. :)
I don't really play chess, but I know it's really popular.
I think the problem though is that chess computer programmes can beat the best human players, so you don't see much 2 human player chess and/or gambling online because people will just use computer programmes instead to win.
Edit: What do people think about sports betting? I don't know if it falls under gaming but Bytemaster came up with a great approach using external feeds. I don't think there's anyone in the crypto-economy offering that yet, so getting in there first with a workable solution could be a big winner.
I read an article somewhere, which looked at human-computer interactions.
It showed tournaments with computers vs chess masters, here sometimes the chess master would win and sometimes the computer.
It then showed that when a chess master worked together with a computer they would beet individual chess masters and individual computers.
So if this DAC were created you may end up with competitions where chess masters pair up with computer programmes to play against other chess masters together with their programmes. This would be really cool to bet on :P
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I would consider a game like Monopoly or Risk. Known board games. I am not sure what the trademark/copyright issues are exactly. There is also an issue of these games being predominantly American.
The upside is you could actually buyin to these games with PTS. Consider a monopoly game where basically price everything in the underlying currency. Risk could give players an option to surrender and retain a certain amount of their buyin?
Monopoly could be rethemed into some different. It is an easy game to code logic wise. Not sure how the frontend with this technology is going to work...
Games of complete information are a big advantage. (Is that the correct term?) The reason is that this technology will never guarantee someone not having access to the DAC itself from my understanding. It is a problem that you can not solve, so perhaps start off avoiding such games.
Games like backgammon,chess,checkers etc are nice, but they're not particularly inspiring to pull people in.
Poker is huge, but it has been done a dozen times in bitcoin world and the complexity + this technology makes my brain melt.
If anything, I might go with backgammon. You have a game that requires a random element. Backgammon is pretty simple. Complete information except for the upcoming rolls.
Your early market will be the nerdy early adopters. Don't be scared to go after them.
Settlers ?
Competitive timed Sudoku ? Bots too much of a problem...
Your overall best bet is to make a slotgame, but with guaranteed payouts in the blockchain with jackpot etc. <-- money maker, transcends all cultures.
So much of the game design depends on how this technology will work... Anyway.. just random thoughts.
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I believe the copyright on monopoly has expired.
And I dont like the idea of only one company being in control of Monopoly ;)
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Yes, Poker has been done to death, but there is a problem that a DAC could solve. Low Rake and RNG trust. I can't think of a need for a Chess DAC.
Backgammon could work.
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Yes, Poker has been done to death, but there is a problem that a DAC could solve. Low Rake and RNG trust. I can't think of a need for a Chess DAC.
Backgammon could work.
I think Backgammon suffers the same problem online as chess, computers can beat humans so there is not a lot of online demand. However the rake is apparently very high in online backgammon so a DAC could help there,
'State of online backgammon - discussion'
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/138/backgammon/state-online-backgammon-1202277/
At it's absolute heart, the simple fact is no amateur player will trust it in my humble opinion.
There is no adequate bot protection either available or implementable - even if there were, I'm wholly unconvinced amateurs could be led to believe in it in significant enough numbers to make backgammon viable as a deposit driven peer to peer game.
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Apologies for over-posting in this thread, but the gaming DAC is a very lucrative area and one I'm quite interested in.
Sorry, this is slightly dated, but if you look at global gambling revenues, you can see that lotteries have the biggest share at 28.4%.
(http://www.gbgc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/GBGC-Global-Gambling-Revenues-By-Category-2011.jpg)
However, online, the big winner is betting at 40.6% of total market share.
(http://www.gbgc.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/GBGC-I-gaming-Share.jpg)
So I think long term the Betting DAC and the Lottery DAC will be the big winners.
(You'll also notice that online lottery's shrink from 28% to 13% market share, this to me represents a real opportunity, IMO the dominant decentralised lottery will eventually trump all regular lotteries, (because it can offer up to 2x better odds and have a GLOBAL player base = HUGE jackpots.)
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I had a quick look at the Bitcoin gambling thread - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=56.0
1. It seems there is a lot of 'noise' and no clear market leader in many fields.
ATM Dice is by far the most popular Bitcoin Betting game (by # of bets.)
'Listing Betting Sites Total # Of Bets' https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=529963.0
(8/9 of the top 10 are dice games! Also Satoshi-Dice is not on the list but I'm sure they're no.1 by a long margin.)
1 JUST-DICE.COM 978,889,464
2 PRIMEDICE.COM 562,719,050
3 DOGE-DICE.COM 411,685,597
4 DICENOW.COM 346,409,188
5 DICENOW.COM 209,807,916
6 COINROLL.IT 63,332,606
7 DICEONCRACK.COM 47,389,035
8 SEALSWITHCLUBS.EU 21,809,533
9 ICE-DICE.COM 14,675,117
10 NOBLEDICE.TK 13,057,954
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Looking at the other games, despite being supposed 'provably fair' games there is a lack of trust.
(Many first page threads are dedicated to discerning who is trustworthy -
'Ratings and Reviews of all the bitcoin sports books' https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=448302.0
'Creating a list of gambling sites we can trust' https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=561428.0
'Fucking ponzi's..' https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=510323.0
In my opinion this is FANTASTIC! There are no/few market leaders and what the market is really calling out for, is not only 'provably fair' blockchain games but from a trusted decentralised source.
That is exactly what the Bitshares Brand can offer!
A brand building a reputation in a bunch of much larger areas wouldn't want to risk it on a dodgy gaming DAC. So Gaming DAC's bought to you by Bitshares and endorsed/verified by the likes of Bytemaster can easily dominate here.
This is perhaps why only something simply verifiable like Dice has taken off so far? My understanding is that things like Roulette, BlackJack and Slots are the easiest to implement? Personally I would start with something easy and get Bitshares toe into the water as soon as possible to start building trust, brand recognition, reputation etc.
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Lottery
At the moment there is no credible lottery, there is a lotto coin, http://lottocoin.org/
Which is ridiculous. It pays out coins to miners in lottery form - miners are people trying to get a consistent return on their rig investment they're not lottery players. (The clearest example of this is the mining pools in Bitcoin & other coins - if you wanted to play the lottery as a miner you'd just solo mine for coins, miners are trying to earn an income not gamble.)
There are some other vague attempts but nothing a Lottery DAC backed by the Bitshares Brand with a good interface couldn't steamroll over in less than a few weeks.
Sports/betting
Bytemaster has some great ideas & Truthcoin https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3916.0 might be an option.
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Lottos are probably the best first attempt. You could take a relatively small % and give part of it to a charity DAC/fund to help promote. It is a problem that lends itself readily to this technology.
Gaming will be your #1 market IMO. Most other DACs will need people to adopt other business models around it. Fair and trustworthy gaming is probably the market that has the largest potential to pull in people from outside Bitshares space.
Oh I started using "space". I've officially started adopting the bitcoin 2.0 vernacular. :)
The other nice things about lotto versus other gambling is that all funding is done by the players. The house puts up no money to win.
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For those interested, I'm strongly considering using my gaming platform with bitshares.
A platform works better than an individual game. We cover all games, console, mobile and browser.
I'll need a very savvy technical and finance participants.
The platform is Gamerholic.com (http://Gamerholic.com)
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For those interested, I'm strongly considering using my gaming platform with bitshares.
A platform works better than an individual game. We cover all games, console, mobile and browser.
I'll need a very savvy technical and finance participants.
The platform is Gamerholic.com (http://Gamerholic.com)
Could you explain what exactly you are strongly considering?
I'm not trying to be rude, it's just your new and your only two posts read like Ad's for your website.
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For those interested, I'm strongly considering using my gaming platform with bitshares.
A platform works better than an individual game. We cover all games, console, mobile and browser.
I'll need a very savvy technical and finance participants.
The platform is Gamerholic.com (http://Gamerholic.com)
Perhaps we could do a PTS/MMC/NIG--AngelShares IPO for development on this? I'm not sure of how all the details would work out, but quite interested.
I am a HUGE fan of gamification (especially with respect to learning environments). The pie chart that shows the statistics on revenues for gambling misses one key trend--the younger generations enjoy competing in a wide range of games within a robust and consistently growing industry.
One thing I will say, though, is that there should always be a free version where bets award something like "reputation" in the community. The benefits of this are two-fold:
1) People can overcome their natural fear of losing and build confidence through participation in the ecosystem
2) Reputation Points, though not liquid and tradable, fulfill the human tendency to become more socially attached to a system that validates their own value.
Then, of course, there are sponsorships that can be gained from big gaming companies and special offers can be made to individuals who participate in the platform, offering discounts for individuals purchasing digital content with PTS/BTS/MMC/NIG/BTC (or any other coin that is going to be supported).
So then, I suppose we could say there is a third benefit:
3) Reputation Tiers could be established that enable players to "unlock" special content and special offers.
This is just off the top of my head...once the mumble server is up and running, perhaps we can chat about this.
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My choice would be for a Lottery DAC and maybe something like a "Keno" type game DAC!
Can Beer Pong get worked into a DAC :P
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To 'something else' I would add betting. Sports and all kinds of betting.
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To 'something else' I would add betting. Sports and all kinds of betting.
and in the spirit of doing away with third parties, perhaps an option to propose bets on alsorts.
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Lottery, Poker and Sporting Bets