BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: bitmeat on August 27, 2014, 12:10:47 pm
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Can someone explain, how come all the purchasers of BitUSD disappeared?
Here is a theory of mine...
BitUSD has total supply of 100B. Which means BitUSD could never really be more than 50 BTSX, since supply of BTSX is 2B.
That means that any BitUSD short above 33.3333... are relatively safe. BTSX should never really hit a margin call by design (unless some spike in the system occurs).
Now go down a notch - for shorts at 22.222222... BTSX their margin call is at 33.3333.... But since 33.3333.... is like a sure short, then so is 22.222....
Wow! No wonder there are no BitUSD buyers, and BitUSD price is lower than it should be. So once BTSX rises to like $1B, BitUSD would be really stable. There is wishful thinking.
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There isn't a lot of bitUSD buyers also I believe as buyers don't want USD at the present time, where bitcoin is historically quite low and may increase soon as well as BTSX just had a solid correction and is probably due for a rise in price next (although that isn't certain).
Basically a buyer of USD probably doesn't want to hold onto a heap of bitUSD with low liquidity (it just opened) so limited exit points in what could be a rising market for the alternatives. This will change over time as the market matures, especially with regards to actual uses for bitUSD.
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You guys are sounding kind of scammy.
Personally, after reading your last several posts I wouldn't listen to what you have to say in the future.
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You guys are sounding kind of scammy.
Personally, after reading your last several posts I wouldn't listen to what you have to say in the future.
Umm confused, sure. Scammy?!? I'm trying to understand how all this works. I said it's a theory, and I asked for other people's opinion. It just puzzles me that there are no bids.
Do you have a better theory?
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No I don't but why such interest in BitUSD buyers? Thats all you guys have been talking about for last several posts. Unless you are holding many BitUSD's and looking to unload.
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I'm in the same boat as bitmeat trying to work it out too, and that's what my conclusion came too. Not sure how that sounds scammy?
I pretty much am all in on bitshares not that that proves any thing here.
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No I don't but why such interest in BitUSD buyers? Thats all you guys have been talking about for last several posts. Unless you are holding many BitUSD's and looking to unload.
In case you haven't worked it out there is one asset trading currently and we are talking about it on the bitshares forum. I'll leave that at that.
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No I don't but why such interest in BitUSD buyers? Thats all you guys have been talking about for last several posts. Unless you are holding many BitUSD's and looking to unload.
Because it's a big deal. If there are no BitUSD buyers, then the whole experiment that BTSX is, doesn't work.
There is a breakdown somewhere and I'm trying to figure out where. It could be a bootstrapping problem - no BitUSD buyers = no support = no trust in the system = even less BitUSD buyers.
Add to that the other theory above, that it is just not worth for anyone to buy this high, since I believe there are theoretical maximums.
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What will more than likely help is when BTSX start rising in price. Demand should pick up for bitUSD as people want to lock in profits. The way it is now most of the first users are bitshares believers. I think this is the best theory. Which means it just needs time and movement.
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My very simple theory is that the only reason to buy and or hold bitUSD as a trader is if you think BTSX is over valued. Given the pull back in the last 48 hours people think we've neared the bottom which makes bitUSD less compelling.
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At the moment people in BTSX are long term BTSX bulls the BitUSD market hasn't really come here yet. (The main time BitUSD will be heavily bid atm till that market arrives is if people are short term bearish.)
There's a conundrum that if you think BTSX is a relatively safe place to store the value of $ for the next few months that would make you a BTSX bull in which case you'll probably prefer to short BitUSD with your BTSX.
I identified this could be a problem before trading started,
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=7416.msg99591#msg99591
Possible ideas for solutions
Introduce BitUSD + 10%. It's the same as shorting below the peg but it might look better if BitUSD was trading closer to the peg.
make a trading pair where the people going short aren't actually taking a leveraged position on the future of BTSX If/how this will work I don't know.
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Either way I think it will all work out once BTSX is worth a few billion dollars. Might just be limited general BitAsset demand beforehand but plenty of people willing to short
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I think people are still learning the best strategies.... I made some money over night with the following strategy.
1) Buy BitUSD when prices BTSX is high and BitUSD is cheap vs USD
2) Sell BitUSD at the "peg price" (I make money on corrections automatically)
3) Places shorts low to catch a market correction. (when the market overshoots on the down side I get solid short positions)
4) Cover shorts with USD that was bought cheap.
Anyone who wants to trade on the BTSX volatility can make a killing right now.
So for the BTSX bull who is also a trader the slight discount on BitUSD vs USD is irrelevant and mostly a constant offset that will gradually move closer and closer to the peg over time as liquidity is added.
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I think people are still learning the best strategies.... I made some money over night with the following strategy.
1) Buy BitUSD when prices BTSX is high and BitUSD is cheap vs USD
2) Sell BitUSD at the "peg price" (I make money on corrections automatically)
3) Places shorts low to catch a market correction. (when the market overshoots on the down side I get solid short positions)
4) Cover shorts with USD that was bought cheap.
Now I just need to capture that in a python script and retire :D.
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I think people are still learning the best strategies.... I made some money over night with the following strategy.
1) Buy BitUSD when prices BTSX is high and BitUSD is cheap vs USD
2) Sell BitUSD at the "peg price" (I make money on corrections automatically)
3) Places shorts low to catch a market correction. (when the market overshoots on the down side I get solid short positions)
4) Cover shorts with USD that was bought cheap.
Anyone who wants to trade on the BTSX volatility can make a killing right now.
So for the BTSX bull who is also a trader the slight discount on BitUSD vs USD is irrelevant and mostly a constant offset that will gradually move closer and closer to the peg over time as liquidity is added.
bytemaster, you are wrong. The current market mechanic is flawed.
Using the price feed to set a floor price for valid bitUSD shorts is imperative. The good news is that this will make bitUSD really work and it will actually track the value of the dollar nicely! Please act quickly.
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bytemaster, you are wrong. The current market mechanic is flawed.
Using the price feed to set a floor price for valid bitUSD shorts is imperative. The good news is that this will make bitUSD really work and it will actually track the value of the dollar nicely! Please act quickly.
And there it is. I couldn't agree more.
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I think people are still learning the best strategies.... I made some money over night with the following strategy.
1) Buy BitUSD when prices BTSX is high and BitUSD is cheap vs USD
2) Sell BitUSD at the "peg price" (I make money on corrections automatically)
3) Places shorts low to catch a market correction. (when the market overshoots on the down side I get solid short positions)
4) Cover shorts with USD that was bought cheap.
Anyone who wants to trade on the BTSX volatility can make a killing right now.
So for the BTSX bull who is also a trader the slight discount on BitUSD vs USD is irrelevant and mostly a constant offset that will gradually move closer and closer to the peg over time as liquidity is added.
bytemaster, you are wrong. The current market mechanic is flawed.
Using the price feed to set a floor price for valid bitUSD shorts is imperative. The good news is that this will make bitUSD really work and it will actually track the value of the dollar nicely! Please act quickly.
Agent, I am going to disagree with you on this one. The price needs to offer people incentive to go long USD and thus the peg will currently be biased and thus BitUSD is currently 14% cheaper than USD. To me 14% seems like a reasonable premium to entice people into BitUSD. It means many people want to leverage up and are so sure of their position they are willing to do it at 14% above market. The next time we get to bubble highs you will see this spread approach 0 or go negative as demand for a hedge increases.
So if you want to trade BitUSD vs USD you just have to ask yourself which way will the spread be moving and trade accordingly.
If we were to use "price fixing" as you suggest then you would just dry up the supply of BitUSD and nothing would happen. I already hate the 10% limits on either side of the feed which were interfering the other day.
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bytemaster, you are wrong. The current market mechanic is flawed.
Using the price feed to set a floor price for valid bitUSD shorts is imperative. The good news is that this will make bitUSD really work and it will actually track the value of the dollar nicely! Please act quickly.
Agent, I am going to disagree with you on this one. The price needs to offer people incentive to go long USD and thus the peg will currently be biased and thus BitUSD is currently 14% cheaper than USD. To me 14% seems like a reasonable premium to entice people into BitUSD. It means many people want to leverage up and are so sure of their position they are willing to do it at 14% above market. The next time we get to bubble highs you will see this spread approach 0 or go negative as demand for a hedge increases.
So if you want to trade BitUSD vs USD you just have to ask yourself which way will the spread be moving and trade accordingly.
If we were to use "price fixing" as you suggest then you would just dry up the supply of BitUSD and nothing would happen. I already hate the 10% limits on either side of the feed which were interfering the other day.
I have to do something for work but will respond when I can.
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I think people are still learning the best strategies.... I made some money over night with the following strategy.
1) Buy BitUSD when prices BTSX is high and BitUSD is cheap vs USD
2) Sell BitUSD at the "peg price" (I make money on corrections automatically)
3) Places shorts low to catch a market correction. (when the market overshoots on the down side I get solid short positions)
4) Cover shorts with USD that was bought cheap.
Anyone who wants to trade on the BTSX volatility can make a killing right now.
So for the BTSX bull who is also a trader the slight discount on BitUSD vs USD is irrelevant and mostly a constant offset that will gradually move closer and closer to the peg over time as liquidity is added.
bytemaster, you are wrong. The current market mechanic is flawed.
Using the price feed to set a floor price for valid bitUSD shorts is imperative. The good news is that this will make bitUSD really work and it will actually track the value of the dollar nicely! Please act quickly.
Agent, I am going to disagree with you on this one. The price needs to offer people incentive to go long USD and thus the peg will currently be biased and thus BitUSD is currently 14% cheaper than USD. To me 14% seems like a reasonable premium to entice people into BitUSD. It means many people want to leverage up and are so sure of their position they are willing to do it at 14% above market. The next time we get to bubble highs you will see this spread approach 0 or go negative as demand for a hedge increases.
So if you want to trade BitUSD vs USD you just have to ask yourself which way will the spread be moving and trade accordingly.
If we were to use "price fixing" as you suggest then you would just dry up the supply of BitUSD and nothing would happen. I already hate the 10% limits on either side of the feed which were interfering the other day.
I agree this is price fixing. Basically hard coding the price. I think another reason for low BitUSD is that it's not that easy to use yet, as in converting to actual USD Fiat or purchasing goods and services. Once you can more easilly get actualy USD fiat or purchase goods and services with it, people will have more confidence in owning it.
Right now, if you look at the BitUSD "markets" on bter with a goal of converting to USD fiat, it doesn't inspire confidence IMHO.
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I think people are still learning the best strategies.... I made some money over night with the following strategy.
1) Buy BitUSD when prices BTSX is high and BitUSD is cheap vs USD
2) Sell BitUSD at the "peg price" (I make money on corrections automatically)
3) Places shorts low to catch a market correction. (when the market overshoots on the down side I get solid short positions)
4) Cover shorts with USD that was bought cheap.
Anyone who wants to trade on the BTSX volatility can make a killing right now.
So for the BTSX bull who is also a trader the slight discount on BitUSD vs USD is irrelevant and mostly a constant offset that will gradually move closer and closer to the peg over time as liquidity is added.
bytemaster, you are wrong. The current market mechanic is flawed.
Using the price feed to set a floor price for valid bitUSD shorts is imperative. The good news is that this will make bitUSD really work and it will actually track the value of the dollar nicely! Please act quickly.
Agent, I am going to disagree with you on this one. The price needs to offer people incentive to go long USD and thus the peg will currently be biased and thus BitUSD is currently 14% cheaper than USD. To me 14% seems like a reasonable premium to entice people into BitUSD. It means many people want to leverage up and are so sure of their position they are willing to do it at 14% above market. The next time we get to bubble highs you will see this spread approach 0 or go negative as demand for a hedge increases.
So if you want to trade BitUSD vs USD you just have to ask yourself which way will the spread be moving and trade accordingly.
If we were to use "price fixing" as you suggest then you would just dry up the supply of BitUSD and nothing would happen. I already hate the 10% limits on either side of the feed which were interfering the other day.
Under those conditions 1 BitUSD is always worth 1 USD long term. But if BitUSD fluctuates that much (around the USD) then is is stable enough? I'd say yes if people hold BitUSD medium term at least.
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Right now BitUSD is highly correlated to USD price with an offset... that is already useful. As long as you factor in that offset in your strategy you are good. Over time the offset will narrow.
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I see 500 dollars on either side usd/bitUSD 1:1 with a 10% difference,
https://bter.com/trade/bitusd_usd
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I see 500 dollars on either side usd/bitUSD 1:1 with a 10% difference,
https://bter.com/trade/bitusd_usd
That's good. Please let me know when you see many thousands in that range.
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The price needs to offer people incentive to go long USD and thus the peg will currently be biased and thus BitUSD is currently 14% cheaper than USD. To me 14% seems like a reasonable premium to entice people into BitUSD.
The only incentive people need to buy bitUSD is the additional benefits of bitUSD over USD (easy international transfers etc.) They should be willing to pay the full price for these benefits.
So if you want to trade BitUSD vs USD you just have to ask yourself which way will the spread be moving and trade accordingly.
If we were to use "price fixing" as you suggest then you would just dry up the supply of BitUSD and nothing would happen. I already hate the 10% limits on either side of the feed which were interfering the other day.
The point of BitUSD is not about trading profits. The point is to create an asset that is useful by virtue of how closely it tracks real USD. The supply doesn't dry up because bitUSD that tracks USD and has benefits of crypto is valuable to some people.
The term "price fixing" has a lot of negative connotations that have nothing to do with what I am proposing and it's not appropriate. On some level the whole point is to "fix" the price of bitUSD to USD without centralized counterparty risk. Under my proposal all trades are still entered into voluntarily by people taking opposite sides of the transaction.
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With "price fixing laws" all trades are still voluntary... they just don't happen.
There is a supply/demand dynamic at play here. If you only allow people to short at price X and there are 2 people that both want to short at that price, who goes first?
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Once you can more easilly get actualy USD fiat or purchase goods and services with it, people will have more confidence in owning it.
Right now, if you look at the BitUSD "markets" on bter with a goal of converting to USD fiat, it doesn't inspire confidence IMHO.
Maybe I'll start a Pizza broker business that only takes bitUSD :).
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Once you can more easilly get actualy USD fiat or purchase goods and services with it, people will have more confidence in owning it.
Right now, if you look at the BitUSD "markets" on bter with a goal of converting to USD fiat, it doesn't inspire confidence IMHO.
Maybe I'll start a Pizza broker business that only takes bitUSD :).
That would be interesting!! Can't wait to see some of those types of experiments.
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Once you can more easilly get actualy USD fiat or purchase goods and services with it, people will have more confidence in owning it.
Right now, if you look at the BitUSD "markets" on bter with a goal of converting to USD fiat, it doesn't inspire confidence IMHO.
Maybe I'll start a Pizza broker business that only takes bitUSD :).
Right now you can buy BitUSD cheap and sell it cheap.... :) I think once the BitUSD:USD market on BTER gains more depth from arb people will discover what the premium is and that is what will drive confidence in BitUSD.
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With "price fixing laws" all trades are still voluntary... they just don't happen.
There is a supply/demand dynamic at play here. If you only allow people to short at price X and there are 2 people that both want to short at that price, who goes first?
People can short at price X or above. They can also short below price X but it is not valid unless the exchange rate drops. If two people both happen to short at the same price then the person who got their order in first gets first dibs but something like this already must be used. Trades will still happen; some people want to increase their exposure to BTSX and others want dollar valued crypto.
I think you're also not appreciating the severity of the problem, this needs to be fixed or the peg will not hold and will be irreparably destroyed.
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With "price fixing laws" all trades are still voluntary... they just don't happen.
There is a supply/demand dynamic at play here. If you only allow people to short at price X and there are 2 people that both want to short at that price, who goes first?
Could the issuers pay the difference in discrepancy as interest over time? I don't think we need to rush this, but some sort of Unit of account would be good.
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With "price fixing laws" all trades are still voluntary... they just don't happen.
There is a supply/demand dynamic at play here. If you only allow people to short at price X and there are 2 people that both want to short at that price, who goes first?
People can short at price X or above. They can also short below price X but it is not valid unless the exchange rate drops. If two people both happen to short at the same price then the person who got their order in first gets first dibs but something like this already must be used. Trades will still happen; some people want to increase their exposure to BTSX and others want dollar valued crypto.
I think you're also not appreciating the severity of the problem, this needs to be fixed or the peg will not hold and will be irreparably destroyed.
Ok, put you money where your mouth is... which way will the peg go? From where I sit the peg is behaving perfectly given the low supply of liquidity providers.
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They can also short below price X but it is not valid unless the exchange rate drops.
to clarify by "not valid" I mean these shorts do not appear on the standard order book and can not be matched with buy orders for bitUSD.
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Ok, put you money where your mouth is... which way will the peg go? From where I sit the peg is behaving perfectly given the low supply of liquidity providers.
Before answering, can I ask if you have a means to stop trading on short notice? (such as delegates remove feeds) - I don't want to make a problem worse.
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They can also short below price X but it is not valid unless the exchange rate drops.
to clarify by "not valid" I mean these shorts do not appear on the standard order book and can not be matched with buy orders for bitUSD.
I understand what you are saying.... so lets describe BitUSD better:
BitUSD is a market between those who want leverage and those who want stability. The "price" in this market will depend upon the interest rate people are willing to borrow at to get the leverage they desire.
What you want to do is price fix the interest rate. The result of price fixing the interest rate will be "gas lines" for those who would like to short as shorts pile up on the price. Now the start of the line is constantly moving as the feeds are updated and every time a short updates their "price" they go to the back of the line.
The huge demand to "short" will thus provide liquidity for those who want to go long USD. Where as under the non-price-fixed scheme there is less liquidity.
I think this approach has some real potential to help in the bootstrapping phase.
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Ok, put you money where your mouth is... which way will the peg go? From where I sit the peg is behaving perfectly given the low supply of liquidity providers.
Before answering, can I ask if you have a means to stop trading on short notice? (such as delegates remove feeds) - I don't want to make a problem worse.
I can stop trades by removing required depth.
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They can also short below price X but it is not valid unless the exchange rate drops.
to clarify by "not valid" I mean these shorts do not appear on the standard order book and can not be matched with buy orders for bitUSD.
I understand what you are saying.... so lets describe BitUSD better:
BitUSD is a market between those who want leverage and those who want stability. The "price" in this market will depend upon the interest rate people are willing to borrow at to get the leverage they desire.
What you want to do is price fix the interest rate. The result of price fixing the interest rate will be "gas lines" for those who would like to short as shorts pile up on the price. Now the start of the line is constantly moving as the feeds are updated and every time a short updates their "price" they go to the back of the line.
The huge demand to "short" will thus provide liquidity for those who want to go long USD. Where as under the non-price-fixed scheme there is less liquidity.
I think this approach has some real potential to help in the bootstrapping phase.
For every benefit there is an equal and opposite side effect. Today there is a huge demand to "short"... at the top of the next bubble there will be a huge demand to go "long" as a hedge. When this happens BitUSD will break the peg to the upside (be worth more than 1 USD).
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Ok, put you money where your mouth is... which way will the peg go? From where I sit the peg is behaving perfectly given the low supply of liquidity providers.
Before answering, can I ask if you have a means to stop trading on short notice? (such as delegates remove feeds) - I don't want to make a problem worse.
I can stop trades by removing required depth.
Price of bitUSD crashes to worthless unless you do something.
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Ok, put you money where your mouth is... which way will the peg go? From where I sit the peg is behaving perfectly given the low supply of liquidity providers.
Before answering, can I ask if you have a means to stop trading on short notice? (such as delegates remove feeds) - I don't want to make a problem worse.
I can stop trades by removing required depth.
Price of bitUSD crashes to worthless unless you do something.
If you believe that then you should be shorting it :)
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They can also short below price X but it is not valid unless the exchange rate drops.
to clarify by "not valid" I mean these shorts do not appear on the standard order book and can not be matched with buy orders for bitUSD.
So 2 willing consenting parties involved. 1 wants to take the risk of a short below standard market rates. The other wants to buy. All participants are acting from their own information, their own judgements of profitability etc. I don't see the problem.
If shorting below standard USD market rate is a bad idea, then these actors will pay the price.
I don't think the market should be subject to the 'desires' that only these traders are allowed to trade and only at this price. The market should be subject to the resulting inclination of all participants to "put their money where there mouth is" making there own decisions and paying the price for bad, uninformed ones.
If the market peg holds 10% below the standard, there is a reason for that. Unless your *removing* barriers to free participation, it should not be meddled with.
Shorting below market rates is not a free ride, and trading at all on this new market carries great risk. It will take some time for a more clear and distinguished consensus about where bitUSD should be valued to emerge. I personally think as the tree and it branches grow the price will tend to a tighter range around the standard USD market and I will place my bets accordingly. If you feel otherwise, you know what to do.
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If the price is fixed I think the market depth would fluctuate widely and often be below 10% especially at the beginning. So it would not abe good for bootstrapping the system if we keep the market depth requierement.
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They can also short below price X but it is not valid unless the exchange rate drops.
to clarify by "not valid" I mean these shorts do not appear on the standard order book and can not be matched with buy orders for bitUSD.
So 2 willing consenting parties involved. 1 wants to take the risk of a short below standard market rates. The other wants to buy. All participants are acting from their own information, their own judgements of profitability etc. I don't see the problem.
If shorting below standard USD market rate is a bad idea, then these actors will pay the price.
I don't think the market should be subject to the 'desires' that only these traders are allowed to trade and only at this price. The market should be subject to the resulting inclination of all participants to "put their money where there mouth is" making there own decisions and paying the price for bad, uninformed ones.
If the market peg holds 10% below the standard, there is a reason for that. Unless your *removing* barriers to free participation, it should not be meddled with.
Shorting below market rates is not a free ride, and trading at all on this new market carries great risk. It will take some time for a more clear and distinguished consensus about where bitUSD should be valued to emerge. I personally think as the tree and it branches grow the price will tend to a tighter range around the standard USD market and I will place my bets accordingly. If you feel otherwise, you know what to do.
+1mm
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Ok, put you money where your mouth is... which way will the peg go? From where I sit the peg is behaving perfectly given the low supply of liquidity providers.
Before answering, can I ask if you have a means to stop trading on short notice? (such as delegates remove feeds) - I don't want to make a problem worse.
I can stop trades by removing required depth.
Price of bitUSD crashes to worthless unless you do something.
If you believe that then you should be shorting it :)
How much BTC from AGS funds do I get if I'm right and bitUSD crashes or I convince you to make the change (preferred)? Although I don't want to disincentivize changes... How much if my solution works?
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Ok, put you money where your mouth is... which way will the peg go? From where I sit the peg is behaving perfectly given the low supply of liquidity providers.
Before answering, can I ask if you have a means to stop trading on short notice? (such as delegates remove feeds) - I don't want to make a problem worse.
I can stop trades by removing required depth.
Price of bitUSD crashes to worthless unless you do something.
If you believe that then you should be shorting it :)
How much BTC from AGS funds do I get if I'm right and bitUSD crashes or I convince you to make the change (preferred)? Although I don't want to disincentivize changes... How much if my solution works?
Bet in the markets my friend. Throw everything you have at it.
You limit shorts which will limit "selling" of USD... but does not create any "buying" of USD. If the value of BitUSD is less than USD then no BitUSD would ever be created and if someone did buy it at parity, they would have to sell at a loss to get in front of the shorts. Then you have the latency in the price feed which will create arb. opportunities.
Bottom line, you cannot get rid of "interest rates" or "premiums" by resorting to price feeds or price fixing.
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My theory is that bitUSD is a toy money at the moment. They are mostly bought out of curiosity, because the only business accepting them is a pizza brokerage 'business' operating out of this forum. The fact that the market values bitUSD with 10-15% discount is pretty encouraging actually. In crypto terms 10-15% is probably interest reflecting a time of just weeks before the market thinks bitUSD will have actual utility.
The good news is that this theory can be easily tested. If we start bitBTC we will see if it trades with a discount/premium or right at par.
Then we will know if we need to think about changing something, in particular if the shorts need additional disadvantages.
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If the price is fixed I think the market depth would fluctuate widely and often be below 10% especially at the beginning. So it would not abe good for bootstrapping the system if we keep the market depth requierement.
On the other side: Wouldnt BitUSD trade mostly at a discount as long as BTSX goes up (month, years)? This could lead people to think that the peg does not really work good enough.
Is this the trade of here?
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Power to the pizza.
Reading this debate fills me with hope. We have a decentralized system for the first time ever on which these theories can be put to the test. On top of that we have some pretty great minds debating them. These are Exciting Times indeed.
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No I don't but why such interest in BitUSD buyers? Thats all you guys have been talking about for last several posts. Unless you are holding many BitUSD's and looking to unload.
Because it's a big deal. If there are no BitUSD buyers, then the whole experiment that BTSX is, doesn't work.
There is a breakdown somewhere and I'm trying to figure out where. It could be a bootstrapping problem - no BitUSD buyers = no support = no trust in the system = even less BitUSD buyers.
Add to that the other theory above, that it is just not worth for anyone to buy this high, since I believe there are theoretical maximums.
The problem is information flow. Information doesn't flow quickly or efficiently enough to coordinate the behavior of market participants.
Another problem is we don't have BitBTC or BitCNY. We need both. Most people are dumping into BTC or CNY, not the USD.
And then we have to show people how it's more profitable to do things on Bitshares X than to work with real BTC or real CNY. BTC ultimately has to be translated into CNY or USD anyway to pay your bills so it doesn't make sense to dump into it unless you want to go speculate elsewhere.
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Another problem is we don't have BitBTC or BitCNY. We need both. Most people are dumping into BTC or CNY, not the USD.
Yes I agree with this BitBTC is the big one that can help a lot. Actually excited now!
A lot of people have a mental block where they keep their crypto investments separate from their fiat.
Keeping fiat in crypto form either requires a lot of faith in the BTSX system (in which case your a BTSX bull & would prefer to short) or a huge amount of distrust in the regular financial system. (BTSX is very new and can't engender that level of trust yet nor does it have any BitUSD utility yet.) So in the short term <3 months you're relying mainly on traders etc. vs. a lot of demand from people who actually want to keep a position in fiat on the blockchain.
However very few people could resist moving some of their BTC position into BTSX if people are effectively paying them high interest shorting below the peg.
The BitBTC peg will be tighter and effective BTC interest will be more of a talking point. Confidence in BitBTC on BTSX will be easier and more natural than fiat. So you will attract a lot more BitBTC longs than BitUSD longs in the shor term. That peg being tighter will help the BitUSD peg.
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No I don't but why such interest in BitUSD buyers? Thats all you guys have been talking about for last several posts. Unless you are holding many BitUSD's and looking to unload.
Because it's a big deal. If there are no BitUSD buyers, then the whole experiment that BTSX is, doesn't work.
There is a breakdown somewhere and I'm trying to figure out where. It could be a bootstrapping problem - no BitUSD buyers = no support = no trust in the system = even less BitUSD buyers.
Add to that the other theory above, that it is just not worth for anyone to buy this high, since I believe there are theoretical maximums.
...Most people are dumping into BTC or CNY, not the USD.
...
I managed to get some BitUSD sold into USD on bter at .90 which is probably near what i paid for it in BTSX. Guess I need to get verified now or convert to BTC and send to coinbase. Just testing how easy/hard to convert to fiat so far.