BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ggozzo on October 04, 2014, 05:33:53 pm
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These numbers are based on the price of $336.45/BTC(Coinbase) and $0.02978/BTSX(average exchange price) at the time.
These numbers are based on a initial $100 investment/conversion
The path: Bank($) - Coinbase($ BTC) - Bter(BTC- BTSX) - BitsharesX(BTSX-bitUSD)
1. $100 from bank to Coinbase = .2938 BTC
Coinbase fee = $1.14
2. .2938 BTC to Bter = .2937 BTC
BTC transaction fee .0001
3. .2937 BTC exchanged for 3327.293 BTSX
Bter fee = .0005876 BTC
4. 3327.293 BTSX from Bter to BitshareX = 3293.02007 BTSX
Bter withdraw fee = 1% + 1 BTSX = 34.27293
5. 3293.02007 BTSX exchanged for 105.60272 bitUSD
31.18BTSX/bitUSD rate + BTSX fee = .1 BTSX
Total Fees:
$1.14 Coinbase fee
$0.033645 .0001BTC fee
$0.19769802 Bter exchange fee
$1.018180204 Bter withdraw fee
$0.002978 .1BTSX fee
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Total fees $2.3925
There is $2.39 in fees going to Coinbase, BTC and Bter as a whole.
This should be massive incentive for someone to create a gateway. I wish I had the know how!
5 Steps to get to bitUSD is TOO MANY!
Right now $100 gets you 105 bitUSD and that is after all the fees paid. 100 bitUSD will net far less than $100 going the other way. The peg will hold truer if we can get an expressway into bitUSD. There are too many floating factors to really test the peg.
*Note Bter had BTSX priced at ~$.0293/BTSX and BitsharesX price feed was at .02977/BTSX and the Filled price on BitsharesX was actually .03207?BTSX
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Soon to be 1 step.
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Soon to be 1 step.
8)
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I see "suppose" isn't present in this statement bytemaster...and I like it...
(http://img.pandawhale.com/101379-Jim-Carrey-I-like-it-alot-gif-GflM.gif)
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Soon to be 1 step.
Hehe :D .. but could you define "soon"? ::)
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This year
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+5%
This is very good. Hopefully 1 step globally, not just in the U.S.
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+5%
This is very good. Hopefully 1 step globally, not just in the U.S.
The rest of the world should be easy, US is probably the tricky part because of banking laws.
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What is really fantastic about bitUSD though, is that it lends itself so perfectly to something like localbitcoins. It will be almost impossible to be scammed or ripped off (on the price) if the seller just charges a % fee and then gives you bitUSD one for one. Average people will feel a lot safer getting into it, I think.
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Soon to be 1 step.
+5%
I3 just keeps nailing it.
What is really fantastic about bitUSD though, is that it lends itself so perfectly to something like localbitcoins. It will be almost impossible to be scammed or ripped off if the seller just charges a % fee and then gives you bitUSD one for one.
Localbitcoins is interesting because it provides a way to completely sidestep the banking complex and exchange physical assets for digital assets.
It would very, very interesting if, in addition to CC/debit gateways, I3 could integrate a P2P gateway for direct conversion of physical to crypto.
So P2P USD -> bitUSD, CNY -> bitCNY, gold -> bitGLD, silver -> bitSLV etc. etc.
Circle + Localbitcoins.
Edit: I just re-read... imagine the love child of Circle/LBTC integrated into the client.
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+5%
Sounds good
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cool, this year ")
just 3 months left ;) ;)
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cool, this year ")
just 3 months left ;) ;)
And when he wrote "this year" he was pointing on the calendar to . . . 2014, we hope!
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cool, this year ")
just 3 months left ;) ;)
And when he wrote "this year" he was pointing on the calendar to . . . 2014, we hope!
LOL
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So if this year people will be able to purchase bitUSD directly, then how many transactions would it take for all the fees to start increasing the value/profits of bitsharesX?
Do anyone how to calculate this?
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So if this year people will be able to purchase bitUSD directly, then how many transactions would it take for all the fees to start increasing the value of bitsharesX?
Do anyone how to calculate this?
It really depends on why they are buying BitUSD. If it's a means to spend it all and cash out, then the value impact is really a wash. Once BitUSD is being used for transactions, it needs to be something the recipient will hold, or change into BTSX, etc, staying in this ecosystem. One they get confident in BitUSD itself, it could become a virtual bank account, but that will take time to earn the sort of trust needed. Because once it gets converted to BTC, fiat, etc., then that added volume has not increased the value. Just look at Litecoin with all the mining and cashing out--plenty of volume, but minimal appreciation for awhile now. Regarding pre-paid debit cards, I'm not aware of the numbers on those, but I do know that $1-2 billion in gift cards go unused every year. People often tend to hold, forget, or lose pre-paid cards when small amounts are involved.
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So then maybe the best strategy is to hand out prepaid cards to people that trade and hold a lot of USD, I wonder who those people could be.
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this year +5%
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So if this year people will be able to purchase bitUSD directly, then how many transactions would it take for all the fees to start increasing the value of bitsharesX?
Do anyone how to calculate this?
It really depends on why they are buying BitUSD. If it's a means to spend it all and cash out, then the value impact is really a wash. Once BitUSD is being used for transactions, it needs to be something the recipient will hold, or change into BTSX, etc, staying in this ecosystem. One they get confident in BitUSD itself, it could become a virtual bank account, but that will take time to earn the sort of trust needed. Because once it gets converted to BTC, fiat, etc., then that added volume has not increased the value. Just look at Litecoin with all the mining and cashing out--plenty of volume, but minimal appreciation for awhile now. Regarding pre-paid debit cards, I'm not aware of the numbers on those, but I do know that $1-2 billion in gift cards go unused every year. People often tend to hold, forget, or lose pre-paid cards when small amounts are involved.
And even with normal use it's fairly rare when gift card holders spend 100% of the card's balance. Usually there at least a few cents, if not a few dollars left on the card where the balance is so small it isn't practical to use it in many cases.
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Any progress now?
(Sorry for reviving old post)
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Any progress now?
(Sorry for reviving old post)
Don't be sorry. It's pretty darned important.
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No real BitUSD ramp in sight yet but the BTC/BitUSD market on Bter has picked up slightly and now offers usable spreads.
So we are down to four steps:
1. $100 from bank to Coinbase = 0.367322 BTC
Current buy price 272.24 $/BTC
2. Transfer to Bter = 0.367222 BTC
Transfer fee 0.0001 BTC
3. Buy BitUSD, receive 97.40 BitUSD
Current spread at 100$ depth is 265.76 to 284.30
Transaction fee 0.2%
4. Withdraw 97.30 BitUSD
0.1 BitUSD withdrawal fee from Bter
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I wonder why Bytemaster was so confident the on-ramp would be available by the end of 2014...
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I wonder why Bytemaster was so confident the on-ramp would be available by the end of 2014...
That's the $1,000,000 question now isn't it?
That just illustrates the need to be cautious and take such statements with a grain of salt unless they are backed by factual evidence to support them. I'm beginning to learn that my optimism for BitShares progress may need to be dialed back a notch or 2. In far less than 6 months there have been some major changes and mistakes here such as with marketing. I remain optimistic but each of these cost a few points of confidence / optimism.
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I wonder why Bytemaster was so confident the on-ramp would be available by the end of 2014...
That's the $1,000,000 question now isn't it?
That just illustrates the need to be cautious and take such statements with a grain of salt unless they are backed by factual evidence to support them. I'm beginning to learn that my optimism for BitShares progress may need to be dialed back a notch or 2. In far less than 6 months there have been some major changes and mistakes here such as with marketing. I remain optimistic but each of these cost a few points of confidence / optimism.
I realized when he started asking about the possibility of buying/starting a credit union that the outlook on the "available by the end of 2014" avenues were looking increasingly bleak.
An organization to offer a bts on-ramp is probably considering risk and effort compared to the profit potential reward, apparently we need more users so there would be more demand for such a service.
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I wonder why Bytemaster was so confident the on-ramp would be available by the end of 2014...
That's the $1,000,000 question now isn't it?
That just illustrates the need to be cautious and take such statements with a grain of salt unless they are backed by factual evidence to support them. I'm beginning to learn that my optimism for BitShares progress may need to be dialed back a notch or 2. In far less than 6 months there have been some major changes and mistakes here such as with marketing. I remain optimistic but each of these cost a few points of confidence / optimism.
I feel much the same way.
The best metaphor I could think of that helped me to better understand the issues that have come up is to view Bitshares as a ship and the dev team as the shipbuilders. At the end of the day, you can't expect the shipbuilders to be experts at piloting the ship they're building, no matter how well it's built. For the most part, all the missteps we've seen to this point have been on the business side of things. Until Bitshares finds an experienced captain and crew (business development team), it's going to be difficult to break through and gain any sort of traction in any market.
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To be fair my projections on certain gateways coming on line were based upon statements by Brian Page which turned out to be way off the mark.
From what I know right now, there are several exchanges that are in the process of integrating with us. We even have Dan & Eric actively working to produce a gateway. Unfortunately, our dev team can do very little to accelerate the development teams of 3rd party exchanges. It will take time, but slow and steady will win the race.
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I wonder why Bytemaster was so confident the on-ramp would be available by the end of 2014...
That's the $1,000,000 question now isn't it?
That just illustrates the need to be cautious and take such statements with a grain of salt unless they are backed by factual evidence to support them. I'm beginning to learn that my optimism for BitShares progress may need to be dialed back a notch or 2. In far less than 6 months there have been some major changes and mistakes here such as with marketing. I remain optimistic but each of these cost a few points of confidence / optimism.
I feel much the same way.
The best metaphor I could think of that helped me to better understand the issues that have come up is to view Bitshares as a ship and the dev team as the shipbuilders. At the end of the day, you can't expect the shipbuilders to be experts at piloting the ship they're building, no matter how well it's built. For the most part, all the missteps we've seen to this point have been on the business side of things. Until Bitshares finds an experienced captain and crew (business development team), it's going to be difficult to break through and gain any sort of traction in any market.
+5% to both.
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To be fair my projections on certain gateways coming on line were based upon statements by Brian Page which turned out to be way off the mark.
From what I know right now, there are several exchanges that are in the process of integrating with us. We even have Dan & Eric actively working to produce a gateway. Unfortunately, our dev team can do very little to accelerate the development teams of 3rd party exchanges. It will take time, but slow and steady will win the race.
Thanks for the update Bytemaster!
But...
Can we have names of these "several exchanges"?
I dont see the point in staying in stealth mode, and it just leaves lingering doubts for BTS holders.
For a good example of how to launch, the UK exchange Coinfloor announced their offering many months before going live. They were giving frequent updates on their development progress and security testing etc. I wish we had the same thing for the Bitshares gateways. I know that youre not directly responsible for them, but if we at least know who they are then we can tweet/upvote/support them.
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exco.in is pretty public about their status in their delegate thread. Today dan and eric reported that they can process BTC deposits on their gateway
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If Yunbi add bitUSD/CNY market, it would be amazing.
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To be fair my projections on certain gateways coming on line were based upon statements by Brian Page which turned out to be way off the mark.
From what I know right now, there are several exchanges that are in the process of integrating with us. We even have Dan & Eric actively working to produce a gateway. Unfortunately, our dev team can do very little to accelerate the development teams of 3rd party exchanges. It will take time, but slow and steady will win the race.
Did Brian just flat out lie to you guys? If so, that is amazing and sad. I feel like it would've had to be an elaborate lie to convince you of a pipeline of things to come without ever working toward them or providing evidence of maturation. The amount of work it would take seems to be more than to have just done it.
I remember posting something that it would've been like $5K (here in CA) to apply for a money services license and then however much for some one to design a site that could sell bitUSD for a dollar plus fee or sell BTS for dollars. Brian's salary could've been used for this and so much more. Hindsight I guess.
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To be fair my projections on certain gateways coming on line were based upon statements by Brian Page which turned out to be way off the mark.
From what I know right now, there are several exchanges that are in the process of integrating with us. We even have Dan & Eric actively working to produce a gateway. Unfortunately, our dev team can do very little to accelerate the development teams of 3rd party exchanges. It will take time, but slow and steady will win the race.
Did Brian just flat out lie to you guys? If so, that is amazing and sad. I feel like it would've had to be an elaborate lie to convince you of a pipeline of things to come without ever working toward them or providing evidence of maturation. The amount of work it would take seems to be more than to have just done it.
I remember posting something that it would've been like $5K (here in CA) to apply for a money services license and then however much for some one to design a site that could sell bitUSD for a dollar plus fee or sell BTS for dollars. Brian's salary could've been used for this and so much more. Hindsight I guess.
I was sure it was something like that! This guy has damaged bitshares more then he has bring benefits to it !!! (2 steps forward and 3 steps backward)...
But it is not only his fault... I hope you all can now better identify the honest guys that will work with you in future... And I hope we don't have other's like him around us from now own!!!.... (unfortunately I doubt it will not happen again,at least then it's "all" shareholder's "fault"....theoretical....and,at least the funds in stake will not be so huge I assume )
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To be fair my projections on certain gateways coming on line were based upon statements by Brian Page which turned out to be way off the mark.
From what I know right now, there are several exchanges that are in the process of integrating with us. We even have Dan & Eric actively working to produce a gateway. Unfortunately, our dev team can do very little to accelerate the development teams of 3rd party exchanges. It will take time, but slow and steady will win the race.
Did Brian just flat out lie to you guys? If so, that is amazing and sad. I feel like it would've had to be an elaborate lie to convince you of a pipeline of things to come without ever working toward them or providing evidence of maturation. The amount of work it would take seems to be more than to have just done it.
I remember posting something that it would've been like $5K (here in CA) to apply for a money services license and then however much for some one to design a site that could sell bitUSD for a dollar plus fee or sell BTS for dollars. Brian's salary could've been used for this and so much more. Hindsight I guess.
I was sure it was something like that! This guy has damaged bitshares more then he has bring benefits to it !!! (2 steps forward and 3 steps backward)...
But it is not only his fault... I hope you all can now better identify the honest guys that will work with you in future... And I hope we don't have other's like him around us from now own!!!.... (unfortunately I doubt it will not happen again,at least then it's "all" shareholder's "fault"....theoretical....and,at least the funds in stake will not be so huge I assume )
I wouldn't say he lied or intended to deceive. I would just say that when you have two high-level guys from BitShares and an Exchange talking to each other they almost never know what the engineers have to say. In this case the exchange told Brian: "Yes we plan on listing you, and we think we can do it by date X" Brian then relays that to me.
After Brian left I had a conversation with the exchange(s) and knew what tough questions to ask to assess where they were on the development process and that is when I realized what was going on.
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This year
Ouch!!
To be fair my projections on certain gateways coming on line were based upon statements by Brian Page which turned out to be way off the mark.
I hope Brian Page is not slated to receive bonus if the marketcap increases.
5m BTS - could've got us so much *sigh*
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This year
Ouch!!
To be fair my projections on certain gateways coming on line were based upon statements by Brian Page which turned out to be way off the mark.
I hope Brian Page is not slated to receive bonus if the marketcap increases.
5m BTS - could've got us so much *sigh*
NO MORE PAY FOR HIM.