One quick question, does it matter if I donate from a multi-address PTS/BTC wallet? Or do I have to donate from a single address PTS/BTC wallet? I experienced MMC 2.0 that single address was easy. Please advise.
One quick question, does it matter if I donate from a multi-address PTS/BTC wallet? Or do I have to donate from a single address PTS/BTC wallet? I experienced MMC 2.0 that single address was easy. Please advise.
It should not matter, we will have tools to import all keys from your PTS and BTC wallets.
One quick question, does it matter if I donate from a multi-address PTS/BTC wallet? Or do I have to donate from a single address PTS/BTC wallet? I experienced MMC 2.0 that single address was easy. Please advise.
It should not matter, we will have tools to import all keys from your PTS and BTC wallets.
Thanks, I have given my donation. When will the AngelShares client available? Is there a due date for the donation?
One quick question, does it matter if I donate from a multi-address PTS/BTC wallet? Or do I have to donate from a single address PTS/BTC wallet? I experienced MMC 2.0 that single address was easy. Please advise.
It should not matter, we will have tools to import all keys from your PTS and BTC wallets.
Thanks, I have given my donation. When will the AngelShares client available? Is there a due date for the donation?
AngelShares are non-transferrable, but will turn into something transferrable when we launch BitShares in Q1 2014. Everything received before the end of Jan 1, 2014 counts as part of the Jan 1, 2014 auction of 10000 AGS. Currently have have 5000 AGS as you are the first PTS bidder! After that every day is a fresh Auction. We wanted to give people some time to digest the system before the daily auctions start that way everyone has equal opportunity.
Honoring AngelShares only applies to anyone who uses our code (paid for by the Angels) to develop their DAC. Obviously they have very different value propositions.
1) PTS is liquid and allows you to speculate on not just Invictus but all DACs
2) AngelShares is much closer tied to Invictus and we encourage other DAC development teams to form their own funding method or perhaps simply copy the AngelShares model.
3) If you don't like how the project is going you can sell PTS... AngelShare holders are in it for the long run.
Obviously the market will sort it all out and price them accordingly. Note that AngelShares creates DEMAND for PTS as a means of purchasing AGS on part with BTC.
Honoring AngelShares only applies to anyone who uses our code (paid for by the Angels) to develop their DAC. Obviously they have very different value propositions.
1) PTS is liquid and allows you to speculate on not just Invictus but all DACs
2) AngelShares is much closer tied to Invictus and we encourage other DAC development teams to form their own funding method or perhaps simply copy the AngelShares model.
3) If you don't like how the project is going you can sell PTS... AngelShare holders are in it for the long run.
Obviously the market will sort it all out and price them accordingly. Note that AngelShares creates DEMAND for PTS as a means of purchasing AGS on part with BTC.
Does this mean that there is no way BitShares will be released before 200 days into 2014, and possibly later?
Is Invictus signing a social contract now that says AGS holders will get access to at least 10% of ALL future DACs (I know you said that on the website, but just confirming again)?
Seems like "we will release bitshares in Q1 2014" and "angelshares will be released over 200 days" are incompatible. What am I missing?
Seems like "we will release bitshares in Q1 2014" and "angelshares will be released over 200 days" are incompatible. What am I missing?
You are missing that AGS is for more than just BTS and that BTS will scale ownership proportional to the AGS supply at launch.
Seems like "we will release bitshares in Q1 2014" and "angelshares will be released over 200 days" are incompatible. What am I missing?
You are missing that AGS is for more than just BTS and that BTS will scale ownership proportional to the AGS supply at launch.
Ah, that makes sense.
What time zone are you using for determining which day a donation appeared?
....aaaand I'm a dumbass. Misread "new years" as "christmas" and went ahead and donated. Will you count it as being donated on the first day?
Actually wait, there are already PTS donations too. Can we just have this start "today" (the 26th just started by GMT)?
One quick question, does it matter if I donate from a multi-address PTS/BTC wallet? Or do I have to donate from a single address PTS/BTC wallet? I experienced MMC 2.0 that single address was easy. Please advise.
It should not matter, we will have tools to import all keys from your PTS and BTC wallets.
Thanks, I have given my donation. When will the AngelShares client available? Is there a due date for the donation?
AngelShares are non-transferrable, but will turn into something transferrable when we launch BitShares in Q1 2014. Everything received before the end of Jan 1, 2014 counts as part of the Jan 1, 2014 auction of 10000 AGS. Currently have have 5000 AGS as you are the first PTS bidder! After that every day is a fresh Auction. We wanted to give people some time to digest the system before the daily auctions start that way everyone has equal opportunity.
Currently have have 5000 AGS as you are the first PTS bidder! One quick question, does it matter if I donate from a multi-address PTS/BTC wallet? Or do I have to donate from a single address PTS/BTC wallet? I experienced MMC 2.0 that single address was easy. Please advise.
It should not matter, we will have tools to import all keys from your PTS and BTC wallets.
Thanks, I have given my donation. When will the AngelShares client available? Is there a due date for the donation?
AngelShares are non-transferrable, but will turn into something transferrable when we launch BitShares in Q1 2014. Everything received before the end of Jan 1, 2014 counts as part of the Jan 1, 2014 auction of 10000 AGS. Currently have have 5000 AGS as you are the first PTS bidder! After that every day is a fresh Auction. We wanted to give people some time to digest the system before the daily auctions start that way everyone has equal opportunity.
bytemaster, can you explain this:Code: [Select]Currently have have 5000 AGS as you are the first PTS bidder!
Cause I've just donated BTC to the funding address.
That should be clearly stated because it would undermine the whole process if we did that.
We will not recycle funds through the address.
We need to find a way to address people we pay bounties to to reinvest without invictus being blamed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
bytemaster, how many confirmations does each transaction need to have before each day's deadline? People may choose to denote in the last minute.
That should be clearly stated because it would undermine the whole process if we did that.
We will not recycle funds through the address.
We need to find a way to address people we pay bounties to to reinvest without invictus being blamed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
Why would a bounty recipient want to reinvest? Performing the work is what the bounty compensates, and they're being compensated in PTS.
I really really really think focusing on retaining as much value internally as possible is a huge mistake you seem determined to make.
That should be clearly stated because it would undermine the whole process if we did that.
We will not recycle funds through the address.
We need to find a way to address people we pay bounties to to reinvest without invictus being blamed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
Why would a bounty recipient want to reinvest? Performing the work is what the bounty compensates, and they're being compensated in PTS.
I really really really think focusing on retaining as much value internally as possible is a huge mistake you seem determined to make.
Why does an employee buy company stock? Because they think it will be more valuable than keeping the cash they were paid.
We are not keeping anything in the company but spending it all on development and promotion.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
Am I understanding this correctly in that if one person sends 1 PTS to the Angelshares address and that is all the PTS sent in for THAT day, then they get all 5,000 Angelshares for that day? But if 5,000 people send in 1 PTS for that day, each gets 1 Angelshare?
Am I understanding this correctly in that if one person sends 1 PTS to the Angelshares address and that is all the PTS sent in for THAT day, then they get all 5,000 Angelshares for that day? But if 5,000 people send in 1 PTS for that day, each gets 1 Angelshare?
Am I understanding this correctly in that if one person sends 1 PTS to the Angelshares address and that is all the PTS sent in for THAT day, then they get all 5,000 Angelshares for that day? But if 5,000 people send in 1 PTS for that day, each gets 1 Angelshare?
So it might just be better to dollar cost average the total amount you want to invest? Say I have $10,000. I spend half on bitcoins, half on pts then send in 1/200th bitcoin and pts in each day. Or is it better to send the entire amount in at once at go for the highest proportion sent in for that day.
That should be clearly stated because it would undermine the whole process if we did that.
We will not recycle funds through the address.
We need to find a way to address people we pay bounties to to reinvest without invictus being blamed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
Merry Christmas Keyhotee Founders!!
The first 10,000 AngelShares are set-aside proportionally for Keyhotee Founders. Invictus Innovations shareholders are not eligible. Donations to Keyhotee after Dec 24, 2013 at Midnight GMT don't count.
[/center]
Jan 1st, 2014 shall include all transactions sent to the Angel addresses in 2013.
Merry Christmas Keyhotee Founders!!
The first 10,000 AngelShares are set-aside proportionally for Keyhotee Founders. Invictus Innovations shareholders are not eligible. Donations to Keyhotee after Dec 24, 2013 at Midnight GMT don't count.
[/center]
Jan 1st, 2014 shall include all transactions sent to the Angel addresses in 2013.
Please can you elaborate on this.. Have the Angelshares for Keyhotee founders already been allocated based on Keyhotee ID contributions before dec 24th?
Nice gesture for early adopters who donated :)
We are in the process of auditing payments, but the number of people that submitted the form and were assigned a PTS or BTC address is about 650.
Merry Christmas Keyhotee Founders!!
The first 10,000 AngelShares are set-aside proportionally for Keyhotee Founders. Invictus Innovations shareholders are not eligible. Donations to Keyhotee after Dec 24, 2013 at Midnight GMT don't count.
[/center]
Jan 1st, 2014 shall include all transactions sent to the Angel addresses in 2013.
Please can you elaborate on this.. Have the Angelshares for Keyhotee founders already been allocated based on Keyhotee ID contributions before dec 24th?
Nice gesture for early adopters who donated :)
Yes, what was the total number of founder IDs claimed, and how many PTS was raised in this way?
So each Keyhotee founder should get approximately 2 angelshares per PTS donated.
So you raised over 100BTC worth of PTS from something that is basically free for you to do, pretty successful initiative!
So you raised over 100BTC worth of PTS from something that is basically free for you to do, pretty successful initiative!
+1
Merry Christmas Keyhotee Founders!!
The first 10,000 AngelShares are set-aside proportionally for Keyhotee Founders. Invictus Innovations shareholders are not eligible. Donations to Keyhotee after Dec 24, 2013 at Midnight GMT don't count.
[/center]
Jan 1st, 2014 shall include all transactions sent to the Angel addresses in 2013.
Please can you elaborate on this.. Have the Angelshares for Keyhotee founders already been allocated based on Keyhotee ID contributions before dec 24th?
Nice gesture for early adopters who donated :)
Hi sent a few btc to the angel share wallet address. what happens now do we get a notification shares sent where?
So it might just be better to dollar cost average the total amount you want to invest? Say I have $10,000. I spend half on bitcoins, half on pts then send in 1/200th bitcoin and pts in each day. Or is it better to send the entire amount in at once at go for the highest proportion sent in for that day.
Right, I'm just saying any pts spent on angelshares has the effect of raising the pts/bts mapping. Instead of 1:1, it could end up being 1:2 or something with pts holders getting more bitshares.
So it might just be better to dollar cost average the total amount you want to invest? Say I have $10,000. I spend half on bitcoins, half on pts then send in 1/200th bitcoin and pts in each day. Or is it better to send the entire amount in at once at go for the highest proportion sent in for that day.
I would suggest Invictus offers a service (for a small fee) to investors who would like to hand off a large amount of investment funds without having to try and micromanage daily investments. Bytemaster, do you have any plans for how to address this issue? If I for example wanted to invest 1000 PTS in angelshares, how could I efficiently do that without having to pay attention all the time to the address? Seems like this is a method intended to service larger investors and yet it requires more hands-on management than Protoshares ever did.That should be clearly stated because it would undermine the whole process if we did that.
We will not recycle funds through the address.
We need to find a way to address people we pay bounties to to reinvest without invictus being blamed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
Are you keeping your policy for dealing with larger investors private? I thought the reason AngelShares was created was because you had several people wanting to invest hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars with you, so while I think you can say Angelshares are about the little guy that's new, and what you actually said was you wanted to launch angelshares as soon as possible because people wanted to give you large amounts of money in exchange for a stake, which this does not seem to offer.
As a potential large investor in Angelshares, what type of process would I find if I contacted you asking this question per your response?
So it might just be better to dollar cost average the total amount you want to invest? Say I have $10,000. I spend half on bitcoins, half on pts then send in 1/200th bitcoin and pts in each day. Or is it better to send the entire amount in at once at go for the highest proportion sent in for that day.
I would suggest Invictus offers a service (for a small fee) to investors who would like to hand off a large amount of investment funds without having to try and micromanage daily investments. Bytemaster, do you have any plans for how to address this issue? If I for example wanted to invest 1000 PTS in angelshares, how could I efficiently do that without having to pay attention all the time to the address? Seems like this is a method intended to service larger investors and yet it requires more hands-on management than Protoshares ever did.That should be clearly stated because it would undermine the whole process if we did that.
We will not recycle funds through the address.
We need to find a way to address people we pay bounties to to reinvest without invictus being blamed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
Actually this method was intended to level the playing field and benefit smaller investors. Which by your posting demonstrates that we did make it less convenient for larger investors. That said, large investors would probably just make one payment per day at the beginning of the day or pay someone to do it for them like you suggest. Anyone wanting to invest 100K or more will already be in contact with us and we can make arrangements. However, we feel that the daily nature benefits the little guy.
Given that, my incentives suggest I should wait to invest because since total investment in Angelshares is capped per day, there's probably a lot of pent up demand that will be very impatient and maybe not think so much about the value they're getting for their investment, in their rush to invest.
Problem is, that's actually a disservice you're doing the people who want to help you reach your goal. You're saying - Ok, I'm offering interest and you should all compete against each other to see who wants it most, but if tomorrow none of you show up I'm going to sell it all to Lighthouse for a dollar because those are the rules I invented!
If you designed this system to allow people with a lot of capital to invest in you, it's a loser. It requires either minimum daily micromanagement or is basically picking pricing with a blindfold on.
Given that, my incentives suggest I should wait to invest because since total investment in Angelshares is capped per day, there's probably a lot of pent up demand that will be very impatient and maybe not think so much about the value they're getting for their investment, in their rush to invest.
Problem is, that's actually a disservice you're doing the people who want to help you reach your goal. You're saying - Ok, I'm offering interest and you should all compete against each other to see who wants it most, but if tomorrow none of you show up I'm going to sell it all to Lighthouse for a dollar because those are the rules I invented!
If you designed this system to allow people with a lot of capital to invest in you, it's a loser. It requires either minimum daily micromanagement or is basically picking pricing with a blindfold on.
Honestly the "minimum daily micromanagement" takes what, 15 seconds? Or if you plan to be AFK, do you have a computer you can leave a cron job on? I could write a guide on how to set that up if there's enough interest
We have chosen 50-50 for our first DAC to equally honor mining-lottery and patron-donor schools of thought.
For our first BitShares DAC:
Allocate 50% of its shares to ProtoShares holders at genesis.
Allocate 50% of its shares to AngelShares holders at genesis.
We will scale the total share count to 4 million shares, equally divided between the two schools.
1 questionQuoteWe have chosen 50-50 for our first DAC to equally honor mining-lottery and patron-donor schools of thought.
For our first BitShares DAC:
Allocate 50% of its shares to ProtoShares holders at genesis.
Allocate 50% of its shares to AngelShares holders at genesis.
We will scale the total share count to 4 million shares, equally divided between the two schools.
what does "our first" mean?
Thanks
After that is undefined but may be more than 10%.So PTS will account for 10% or more of BitShares?
So you raised over 100BTC worth of PTS from something that is basically free for you to do, pretty successful initiative!
+1
It will fund a team working on keyhotee for a couple of months. Enough to get a pretty nice user experience. Our polish devs have been working hard on it, unfortunately they don't work for pts.
So you raised over 100BTC worth of PTS from something that is basically free for you to do, pretty successful initiative!
+1
It will fund a team working on keyhotee for a couple of months. Enough to get a pretty nice user experience. Our polish devs have been working hard on it, unfortunately they don't work for pts.
I believed the PTS launch was more successful than expected. Thus Invictus has more money than they expected to, right?
So why the need for more funding via AngelShares? Was this the plan all along?
I dont mean to be so critical, I believe Invictus is really doing something great here.
I just dont understand why there is a need for more funding at this stage if venture capital was successfully obtained and PTS launch was such a success.
Now it looks like either the original plan was set under-budget. Or the plan was to just get some cash, see how far it goes, and then get some more.
So how will I get my angelshares?
How will it be possible to obtain our DAC shares with only our PTS public key associated with how much we own?
So you raised over 100BTC worth of PTS from something that is basically free for you to do, pretty successful initiative!
+1
It will fund a team working on keyhotee for a couple of months. Enough to get a pretty nice user experience. Our polish devs have been working hard on it, unfortunately they don't work for pts.
I believed the PTS launch was more successful than expected. Thus Invictus has more money than they expected to, right?
So why the need for more funding via AngelShares? Was this the plan all along?
I dont mean to be so critical, I believe Invictus is really doing something great here.
I just dont understand why there is a need for more funding at this stage if venture capital was successfully obtained and PTS launch was such a success.
Now it looks like either the original plan was set under-budget. Or the plan was to just get some cash, see how far it goes, and then get some more.
How will it be possible to obtain our DAC shares with only our PTS public key associated with how much we own?
You will simply import your PTS wallet into BitShares and other DACs and it will scan the genesis block for your balance.
After that is undefined but may be more than 10%.So PTS will account for 10% or more of BitShares?
And AngelShares may account for 10% or more?
Will PTS and AGS always count for the same percentage of BitShares?
I believe the introduction of AGS is unfair to PTS early adopters.
I purchased PTS under the impression that all PTS will represent 10% of bitshares. And the remainder 90% of BitShares will be distributed to miners (through their mining) and to BitShare holders (through half of mining rewards).
Under this original agreement if PTS holders keep the BitShares they get, for the 12 years it takes to mine all BitShares, they would end up with 55% of BitShares in existence.
In a 50:50 split with AGS, PTS holders are reduced to 50% of BitShares.
If AGS gets 10% and PTS gets 10% then PTS early adopters end up with 30% of BitShares if they hold them for the 12 year period.
I hope I didn't mix up my maths, but from this it looks like the original deal (when I bought PTS) promised me a 450% growth in number of BitShares over 12 years. Now I am looking at a possible 200% growth in 12 years.
How will it be possible to obtain our DAC shares with only our PTS public key associated with how much we own?
You will simply import your PTS wallet into BitShares and other DACs and it will scan the genesis block for your balance.
How do you get this for angels shares that were obtained from bitcoins? Will angel shares be sent to that bitcoin address? Or do we have to import that Bitcoin wallet into Bitshares? That sounds like its going to be a mess if we have to do that.
You went from owning a share of a company (DAC) which had to pay 50% of its earnings (transaction fees) to miners to burn them up while also serving to centralize control in economies of scale to owning a share of a company (DAC) which can pay you 100% of its earnings. This alone DOUBLES the value of the new BTS vs the old BTS. You also went from owning 55% of a company that has $500K to grow on to owning 50% of a company with several million backing it and therefore much better adoption and support.
If you ignore the stock-split effect of the original BTS dividend design, then what you have is a DAC that was charging you a 20% wealth tax to pay miners the first year and then taking 50% of the profits. Now you get a DAC with no wealth tax paying you 100% of the profits. The question becomes what kind of revenue will be generated from transaction fees because this will determine how long it takes before PTS holders under AGS surpass PTS holders under the original design in terms of percent ownership. In terms of the value proposition you come out ahead in the first year based on the value being 2x the old value (when viewed as a revenue stream).
One last detail is that if PTS holders contribute just 5% of their PTS to get AGS then they will have significantly increased their cut from 50% to 75% while providing $1 million worth of PTS to fund development and promotion. Essentially, we have given PTS holders a way to repurpose their debasement due to mining toward more productive activities that increase the value of BTS and PTS.
I hope this helps.
You went from owning a share of a company (DAC) which had to pay 50% of its earnings (transaction fees) to miners to burn them up while also serving to centralize control in economies of scale to owning a share of a company (DAC) which can pay you 100% of its earnings. This alone DOUBLES the value of the new BTS vs the old BTS. You also went from owning 55% of a company that has $500K to grow on to owning 50% of a company with several million backing it and therefore much better adoption and support.
If you ignore the stock-split effect of the original BTS dividend design, then what you have is a DAC that was charging you a 20% wealth tax to pay miners the first year and then taking 50% of the profits. Now you get a DAC with no wealth tax paying you 100% of the profits. The question becomes what kind of revenue will be generated from transaction fees because this will determine how long it takes before PTS holders under AGS surpass PTS holders under the original design in terms of percent ownership. In terms of the value proposition you come out ahead in the first year based on the value being 2x the old value (when viewed as a revenue stream).
One last detail is that if PTS holders contribute just 5% of their PTS to get AGS then they will have significantly increased their cut from 50% to 75% while providing $1 million worth of PTS to fund development and promotion. Essentially, we have given PTS holders a way to repurpose their debasement due to mining toward more productive activities that increase the value of BTS and PTS.
I hope this helps.
This is a good deal for people who just want to hold their PTS. But for people who want to invest their PTS in Angel Shares, this is an amazing deal! The ROI for Angel Shares looks pretty good right now (about 7.76 AGS per PTS), and might be better on some days than others
You went from owning a share of a company (DAC) which had to pay 50% of its earnings (transaction fees) to miners to burn them up while also serving to centralize control in economies of scale to owning a share of a company (DAC) which can pay you 100% of its earnings. This alone DOUBLES the value of the new BTS vs the old BTS. You also went from owning 55% of a company that has $500K to grow on to owning 50% of a company with several million backing it and therefore much better adoption and support.
If you ignore the stock-split effect of the original BTS dividend design, then what you have is a DAC that was charging you a 20% wealth tax to pay miners the first year and then taking 50% of the profits. Now you get a DAC with no wealth tax paying you 100% of the profits. The question becomes what kind of revenue will be generated from transaction fees because this will determine how long it takes before PTS holders under AGS surpass PTS holders under the original design in terms of percent ownership. In terms of the value proposition you come out ahead in the first year based on the value being 2x the old value (when viewed as a revenue stream).
One last detail is that if PTS holders contribute just 5% of their PTS to get AGS then they will have significantly increased their cut from 50% to 75% while providing $1 million worth of PTS to fund development and promotion. Essentially, we have given PTS holders a way to repurpose their debasement due to mining toward more productive activities that increase the value of BTS and PTS.
I hope this helps.
This is a good deal for people who just want to hold their PTS. But for people who want to invest their PTS in Angel Shares, this is an amazing deal! The ROI for Angel Shares looks pretty good right now (about 7.76 AGS per PTS), and might be better on some days than others
HOw did you calculate 7.75 AGS per PTS?
Will we be able to see live tracking of the donation pools each day until launch?
Would donating from a BTC wallet like Coinbase be acceptable for getting the angelshares?
Okay, and let's say I donate BTC or PTS from the client on my laptop and I control the private keys: Will the angelshares be sent to the wallet that the PTS (or BTC) came from? .... Or will I need a BTS client, or sometinhg else?
Will we be able to see live tracking of the donation pools each day until launch?
Okay, and let's say I donate BTC or PTS from the client on my laptop and I control the private keys: Will the angelshares be sent to the wallet that the PTS (or BTC) came from? .... Or will I need a BTS client, or sometinhg else?
You will need a BTS client and then import your private keys. Same way Memorycoin 2.0 did.
Okay, and let's say I donate BTC or PTS from the client on my laptop and I control the private keys: Will the angelshares be sent to the wallet that the PTS (or BTC) came from? .... Or will I need a BTS client, or sometinhg else?
You will need a BTS client and then import your private keys. Same way Memorycoin 2.0 did.
Not quite the same way, we will offer better tools for it.
Okay, and let's say I donate BTC or PTS from the client on my laptop and I control the private keys: Will the angelshares be sent to the wallet that the PTS (or BTC) came from? .... Or will I need a BTS client, or sometinhg else?
You will need a BTS client and then import your private keys. Same way Memorycoin 2.0 did.
So, there is a 100% secure way of attributing shares with nothing but the public key? Is there any way someone can 'spoof' someone else's public key by engineering a wallet file?
I believe something like this is in the roadmap. At the start we will probably do this for large investors, but in the future we will have a open-source automated tool for this.So it might just be better to dollar cost average the total amount you want to invest? Say I have $10,000. I spend half on bitcoins, half on pts then send in 1/200th bitcoin and pts in each day. Or is it better to send the entire amount in at once at go for the highest proportion sent in for that day.
I would suggest Invictus offers a service (for a small fee) to investors who would like to hand off a large amount of investment funds without having to try and micromanage daily investments. Bytemaster, do you have any plans for how to address this issue? If I for example wanted to invest 1000 PTS in angelshares, how could I efficiently do that without having to pay attention all the time to the address? Seems like this is a method intended to service larger investors and yet it requires more hands-on management than Protoshares ever did.That should be clearly stated because it would undermine the whole process if we did that.
We will not recycle funds through the address.
We need to find a way to address people we pay bounties to to reinvest without invictus being blamed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
Do the donations get cleared out every day? Or once you donate you will get Angel Shares every day?
Do the donations get cleared out every day? Or once you donate you will get Angel Shares every day?
Do the donations get cleared out every day? Or once you donate you will get Angel Shares every day?
Huh,
now THAT is an interesting idea. Make the whole thing cumulative, rewards people who are either early or put in a lot of value.
Might be better to split Angelshares between PTS -> Daily Auctions vs. PTS -> Cumulative Daily Split based on proportional, all time investment.
There is one thing that bothers me. This one is related to inevitable influence to future Pts trading.
All Pts accumulated in the pool for Ags could not be used directly in order to pay developers , bounties , promotions and etc…It has to be traded for Btc. Who is controlling supply of those accumulated Pts to the market. Are those accumulated one day, going to be traded next day. If not then when? Obviously the one who controls supply of those accumulated Pts is going to influence the market price in a big way.
Why do you think so? I don't think it's right to assume that the PTS donated for this would flood the market. I don't see why bounties shouldn't be paid in PTS. They also have funds from the BTC pool to pay for developers who don't want to work for BTC, but I see no reason why bounties shouldn't be paid and accepted in PTS.There is one thing that bothers me. This one is related to inevitable influence to future Pts trading.
All Pts accumulated in the pool for Ags could not be used directly in order to pay developers , bounties , promotions and etc…It has to be traded for Btc. Who is controlling supply of those accumulated Pts to the market. Are those accumulated one day, going to be traded next day. If not then when? Obviously the one who controls supply of those accumulated Pts is going to influence the market price in a big way.
+1
hook or by crook somebody wants to accumulate PTS.
Why do you think so? I don't think it's right to assume that the PTS donated for this would flood the market. I don't see why bounties shouldn't be paid in PTS. They also have funds from the BTC pool to pay for developers who don't want to work for BTC, but I see no reason why bounties shouldn't be paid and accepted in PTS.There is one thing that bothers me. This one is related to inevitable influence to future Pts trading.
All Pts accumulated in the pool for Ags could not be used directly in order to pay developers , bounties , promotions and etc…It has to be traded for Btc. Who is controlling supply of those accumulated Pts to the market. Are those accumulated one day, going to be traded next day. If not then when? Obviously the one who controls supply of those accumulated Pts is going to influence the market price in a big way.
+1
hook or by crook somebody wants to accumulate PTS.
If anything, this whole thing is going to increase the velocity of PTS.
So ags means the end of mining?AGS means end of mining for a profit. LuckyShares may require LuckyMining to generate random numbers in a secure decentralized manner but most DACS do not need a decentralized random number source and thus will not use mining for security.
What I do not understand is if that thing with angel shares for >1000 PTS holders is terminated. If so, then why no announcement/explanation on that?
yvg1900
DAC Angels Rising
When we first conceived the idea of DAC Angels, we thought of approaching newly-wealthy
ProtoShareholders to see if some might want to invest in new DACs in order to grow the value
of their holdings. We invited those who held 1000 or more PTS to sign up for a new DAC
Angel investors newsletter. We were blown away by the number of such investors that exist!
Instead of a small group of successful investors slowly pondering how to grow the industry, we
were looking at a whole army of investors yelling “I’m in!” Then it occurred to us: this is a
decentralized movement developing decentralized products and services. Why were we trying to
centralize our investors? Why can’t the owner of a single ProtoShare be a venture capitalist if
she want’s to? We should be sharing our ideas with everyone. So we are using this newsletter.
Is there a thread that we can go to to follow the progress on AGS.
Such as how much was submitted to each block for each day.
Total funding collected by Invictus through AGS.
Amount of funding currently being used for specific projects (DACs) etc.
Thanks
I apologize if this has been asked already...As a Keyhotee Founder I just found out about this AGS -- I wish there was an emailed newsletter or something.
What address do I send to and how do I specify that this is coming from a Founder address?
MD
I apologize if this has been asked already...As a Keyhotee Founder I just found out about this AGS -- I wish there was an emailed newsletter or something.
What address do I send to and how do I specify that this is coming from a Founder address?
MD
You send to the addresses in the OP.
I think you don't specify that they're coming from a founder ID, I think they just mean that any PTS received for keyhotee donations (founder ID purchases) count as angelshare "purchases" and so you can use those private keys will be able to redeem the shares.
I would like some clarification though, if what I'm saying is right that means we had to have kept the keys we sent the donations from even though there was no warning that we would need to keep them. If I'm wrong, then I'm just totally confused about how the first 10,000 AGS are set aside for founders.
Sorry if this is not in the correct thread, I did look around a bit prior. I can't seem to find an answer to this question with all these other AGS, BTS, etc being announced.
Will mining PTS still be necessary after December 31st, 2013 23:59 GMT? If yes, what will they be good for? AGS? BTS?
I'm just a little confused and don't want to miss out on an opportunity. Thanks.
Ok thank you. Also, can you clarify any deadlines for December 31st, 2013 23:59 GMT? I could swear I read something about something getting converted at that point.Sorry if this is not in the correct thread, I did look around a bit prior. I can't seem to find an answer to this question with all these other AGS, BTS, etc being announced.
Will mining PTS still be necessary after December 31st, 2013 23:59 GMT? If yes, what will they be good for? AGS? BTS?
I'm just a little confused and don't want to miss out on an opportunity. Thanks.
PTS requires mining and its social contract is unmodified. Mined PTS is still valid for a stake in all future DACs.
Ok thank you. Also, can you clarify any deadlines for December 31st, 2013 23:59 GMT? I could swear I read something about something getting converted at that point.Sorry if this is not in the correct thread, I did look around a bit prior. I can't seem to find an answer to this question with all these other AGS, BTS, etc being announced.
Will mining PTS still be necessary after December 31st, 2013 23:59 GMT? If yes, what will they be good for? AGS? BTS?
I'm just a little confused and don't want to miss out on an opportunity. Thanks.
PTS requires mining and its social contract is unmodified. Mined PTS is still valid for a stake in all future DACs.
coinexplorer doesnt seem to show the correct numbers here, cos the first transaction of 500pts from some punk (well maybe not) is shown twice....
https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Addresses/PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw
coinexplorer doesnt seem to show the correct numbers here, cos the first transaction of 500pts from some punk (well maybe not) is shown twice....
https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Addresses/PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw
You're right. There's a bug in coinplorer.com counting many PTS transactions twice.
one question regarding the BTS allocation:
according to my understing, suppose at BTS release only 1.5M PTS are mined out, then each PTS will be allocated 2/1.5=1.33 BTS, the rest 0.5M PTS which are not mined out yet will not get BTS allocated and there will be no more 1:1 matching for PTS and BTS, right?
the same question for AGS and BTS matching, as at BTS release maybe only 1M AGS are sold out.
one question regarding the BTS allocation:
according to my understing, suppose at BTS release only 1.5M PTS are mined out, then each PTS will be allocated 2/1.5=1.33 BTS, the rest 0.5M PTS which are not mined out yet will not get BTS allocated and there will be no more 1:1 matching for PTS and BTS, right?
the same question for AGS and BTS matching, as at BTS release maybe only 1M AGS are sold out.
Correct, there will be greater than 1:1 matching if we launch before things are mined out.
one question regarding the BTS allocation:
according to my understing, suppose at BTS release only 1.5M PTS are mined out, then each PTS will be allocated 2/1.5=1.33 BTS, the rest 0.5M PTS which are not mined out yet will not get BTS allocated and there will be no more 1:1 matching for PTS and BTS, right?
the same question for AGS and BTS matching, as at BTS release maybe only 1M AGS are sold out.
Correct, there will be greater than 1:1 matching if we launch before things are mined out.
same for AGS? suppose BTS will be released after exactly 100 days from now and at that time 1M AGS are sold out, will it be a 1:2 matching for AGS:BTS?
In the long run, it doesnt matter.
I have created a google docs XLS sheet to track all expenses paid from the Angel fund. Our goal is to make everything as transparent as possible.Thanks for this.
https://docs.google.com/a/invictus-innovations.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqTwk-e7yzJydFZ3bVVWT0o1OUwzXzdESHFBY0FkUWc&usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqTwk-e7yzJydDFnQmlkTVlkbWpubnJBbzR2UG5ucnc&usp=sharing
I have created a google docs XLS sheet to track all expenses paid from the Angel fund. Our goal is to make everything as transparent as possible.Thanks for this.
https://docs.google.com/a/invictus-innovations.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqTwk-e7yzJydFZ3bVVWT0o1OUwzXzdESHFBY0FkUWc&usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqTwk-e7yzJydDFnQmlkTVlkbWpubnJBbzR2UG5ucnc&usp=sharing
Is there a document that will show all AGS income (donations) so that we can work out a balance sheet.
Or are we just waiting for a good 'blockchain explorer' of AGS and can work it out from there.
Is there any term prohibiting Invictus to invest in AGS with PTS mined by itself?
Could you please explain 74 PTS spent from the angel address?
https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Addresses/PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw
Is it another coinplorer glitch or you have started spending it already and will count total received PTS for the auction purposes and not the final balance?
One quick question, does it matter if I donate from a multi-address PTS/BTC wallet? Or do I have to donate from a single address PTS/BTC wallet? I experienced MMC 2.0 that single address was easy. Please advise.
It should not matter, we will have tools to import all keys from your PTS and BTC wallets.
I sent my PTS 30 seconds before midnight GMT, but Coinplorer shows the transaction time at the first confirmation after midnight GMT (https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Transactions/b7cda8e97abbf152c0a4175c21fcb2cfa5abd2d7aa871b7368d72f2ad313a241). (BTSBlock appears to be down at the moment, so I cannot check if its reporting of the transaction time is different.)
Blockchain.info shows my BTC transaction time when the transaction was sent (0 confirmations).
Which time counts for being included in a particular day's auction, when it is sent or when it is first confirmed? If it's the latter, that could adversely affect auction sniping.
I sent my PTS 30 seconds before midnight GMT, but Coinplorer shows the transaction time at the first confirmation after midnight GMT (https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Transactions/b7cda8e97abbf152c0a4175c21fcb2cfa5abd2d7aa871b7368d72f2ad313a241). (BTSBlock appears to be down at the moment, so I cannot check if its reporting of the transaction time is different.)
Blockchain.info shows my BTC transaction time when the transaction was sent (0 confirmations).
Which time counts for being included in a particular day's auction, when it is sent or when it is first confirmed? If it's the latter, that could adversely affect auction sniping.
This is why if you're smart you should send early in the day rather than late.
I sent my PTS 30 seconds before midnight GMT, but Coinplorer shows the transaction time at the first confirmation after midnight GMT (https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Transactions/b7cda8e97abbf152c0a4175c21fcb2cfa5abd2d7aa871b7368d72f2ad313a241). (BTSBlock appears to be down at the moment, so I cannot check if its reporting of the transaction time is different.)
Blockchain.info shows my BTC transaction time when the transaction was sent (0 confirmations).
Which time counts for being included in a particular day's auction, when it is sent or when it is first confirmed? If it's the latter, that could adversely affect auction sniping.
This is why if you're smart you should send early in the day rather than late.
Timestamp of the block that includes the transaction is how it is measured. Note that block timestamps have a variance of +/- 2 hrs actual time and can occur out of order. In other words, if you attempt to send in a payment near the end of the day or at the very beginning of the day you cannot know for certain which day the BTS or PTS blockchain will count it as.
Could you please explain 74 PTS spent from the angel address?
https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Addresses/PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw
Is it another coinplorer glitch or you have started spending it already and will count total received PTS for the auction purposes and not the final balance?
All use of Angel Funds is documented here: https://docs.google.com/a/invictus-innovations.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqTwk-e7yzJydFZ3bVVWT0o1OUwzXzdESHFBY0FkUWc&usp=drive_web#gid=0
Expect them to be used as fast as people earn their bountiful bounties and advance the BitShares ecosystem -- driving up value for everybody.
The only thing that matters for share award purposes is the permanent record of deposits which will be scanned at the genesis of each honorable DAC to give every Angel his/her shares in those DACs.
Could you please explain 74 PTS spent from the angel address?
https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Addresses/PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw
Is it another coinplorer glitch or you have started spending it already and will count total received PTS for the auction purposes and not the final balance?
All use of Angel Funds is documented here: https://docs.google.com/a/invictus-innovations.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqTwk-e7yzJydFZ3bVVWT0o1OUwzXzdESHFBY0FkUWc&usp=drive_web#gid=0
Expect them to be used as fast as people earn their bountiful bounties and advance the BitShares ecosystem -- driving up value for everybody.
The only thing that matters for share award purposes is the permanent record of deposits which will be scanned at the genesis of each honorable DAC to give every Angel his/her shares in those DACs.
So shares will be awarded based on total amount received each day, not the balance at the end of the day.
Is there any term prohibiting Invictus to invest in AGS with PTS mined by itself?
We apply the same rules to ourselves that we apply to everyone else. Equal opportunity for all. The only rule we have is that funds sent to an Angel address cannot be sent back to the Angel address (by us) and must be documented in our public spread sheet showing how the funds are spent. In other words, our opportunity to profit from this project is EQUAL to everyone else's opportunity to profit and our sources of profit are the same as everyone else's.
All PTS that is sent to the Angel fund is spent into circulation. If we send our mined/purchased PTS to the Angel address you will be able to see how we spend it and once we do so we will be unable to 'dump and run' without building BitShares and other DACs. This is a very good thing for the community because we are reinvesting our 'profits in PTS' back into building the ecosystem rather than holding the PTS.
The major reason we can offer the bounties prior to fully funding AGS is because we know we will be investing 95% of our own PTS into the fund over time.
Is there any term prohibiting Invictus to invest in AGS with PTS mined by itself?
We apply the same rules to ourselves that we apply to everyone else. Equal opportunity for all. The only rule we have is that funds sent to an Angel address cannot be sent back to the Angel address (by us) and must be documented in our public spread sheet showing how the funds are spent. In other words, our opportunity to profit from this project is EQUAL to everyone else's opportunity to profit and our sources of profit are the same as everyone else's.
All PTS that is sent to the Angel fund is spent into circulation. If we send our mined/purchased PTS to the Angel address you will be able to see how we spend it and once we do so we will be unable to 'dump and run' without building BitShares and other DACs. This is a very good thing for the community because we are reinvesting our 'profits in PTS' back into building the ecosystem rather than holding the PTS.
The major reason we can offer the bounties prior to fully funding AGS is because we know we will be investing 95% of our own PTS into the fund over time.
Invictus has "insider" information of when BitShares will be released and how it is going on, it puts the compnay in a much better position than outside investors.
Can you make Invictus AGS investment transparent by using a fixed Bitcoin/ProtoShares address?
Is there any term prohibiting Invictus to invest in AGS with PTS mined by itself?
We apply the same rules to ourselves that we apply to everyone else. Equal opportunity for all. The only rule we have is that funds sent to an Angel address cannot be sent back to the Angel address (by us) and must be documented in our public spread sheet showing how the funds are spent. In other words, our opportunity to profit from this project is EQUAL to everyone else's opportunity to profit and our sources of profit are the same as everyone else's.
All PTS that is sent to the Angel fund is spent into circulation. If we send our mined/purchased PTS to the Angel address you will be able to see how we spend it and once we do so we will be unable to 'dump and run' without building BitShares and other DACs. This is a very good thing for the community because we are reinvesting our 'profits in PTS' back into building the ecosystem rather than holding the PTS.
The major reason we can offer the bounties prior to fully funding AGS is because we know we will be investing 95% of our own PTS into the fund over time.
Invictus has "insider" information of when BitShares will be released and how it is going on, it puts the compnay in a much better position than outside investors.
Can you make Invictus AGS investment transparent by using a fixed Bitcoin/ProtoShares address?
Actually we don't have much insider information, 100% of code will be public and we will have a lot of public testing / reports. Our current strategy is to invest evenly over the first 2-3 months. However, we would like to maintain some privacy over our addresses for obvious reasons. I think anyone can look at the code, the progress, the bug reports, and make an independent assessment of our delivery date because I know i am horrible at estimating these things.
Is there any term prohibiting Invictus to invest in AGS with PTS mined by itself?
We apply the same rules to ourselves that we apply to everyone else. Equal opportunity for all. The only rule we have is that funds sent to an Angel address cannot be sent back to the Angel address (by us) and must be documented in our public spread sheet showing how the funds are spent. In other words, our opportunity to profit from this project is EQUAL to everyone else's opportunity to profit and our sources of profit are the same as everyone else's.
All PTS that is sent to the Angel fund is spent into circulation. If we send our mined/purchased PTS to the Angel address you will be able to see how we spend it and once we do so we will be unable to 'dump and run' without building BitShares and other DACs. This is a very good thing for the community because we are reinvesting our 'profits in PTS' back into building the ecosystem rather than holding the PTS.
The major reason we can offer the bounties prior to fully funding AGS is because we know we will be investing 95% of our own PTS into the fund over time.
Invictus has "insider" information of when BitShares will be released and how it is going on, it puts the compnay in a much better position than outside investors.
Can you make Invictus AGS investment transparent by using a fixed Bitcoin/ProtoShares address?
Actually we don't have much insider information, 100% of code will be public and we will have a lot of public testing / reports. Our current strategy is to invest evenly over the first 2-3 months. However, we would like to maintain some privacy over our addresses for obvious reasons. I think anyone can look at the code, the progress, the bug reports, and make an independent assessment of our delivery date because I know i am horrible at estimating these things.
Is there any term prohibiting Invictus to invest in AGS with PTS mined by itself?
We apply the same rules to ourselves that we apply to everyone else. Equal opportunity for all. The only rule we have is that funds sent to an Angel address cannot be sent back to the Angel address (by us) and must be documented in our public spread sheet showing how the funds are spent. In other words, our opportunity to profit from this project is EQUAL to everyone else's opportunity to profit and our sources of profit are the same as everyone else's.
All PTS that is sent to the Angel fund is spent into circulation. If we send our mined/purchased PTS to the Angel address you will be able to see how we spend it and once we do so we will be unable to 'dump and run' without building BitShares and other DACs. This is a very good thing for the community because we are reinvesting our 'profits in PTS' back into building the ecosystem rather than holding the PTS.
The major reason we can offer the bounties prior to fully funding AGS is because we know we will be investing 95% of our own PTS into the fund over time.
Invictus has "insider" information of when BitShares will be released and how it is going on, it puts the compnay in a much better position than outside investors.
Can you make Invictus AGS investment transparent by using a fixed Bitcoin/ProtoShares address?
Actually we don't have much insider information, 100% of code will be public and we will have a lot of public testing / reports. Our current strategy is to invest evenly over the first 2-3 months. However, we would like to maintain some privacy over our addresses for obvious reasons. I think anyone can look at the code, the progress, the bug reports, and make an independent assessment of our delivery date because I know i am horrible at estimating these things.
Just to confirm one "day" start/end is in GMT?
Hi All,
I am new to the Angel Shares and Bit Shares concept and trying to learn my way in. :)
I just read the "Announcing Angel Shares & BitShares Allocation"
I went to my BlockChain wallet and sent few bitcoins to the address that shows on the post.
I cant see that I got any Angel Shares back. Again - Sorry for the ignorance but if you help me understand I promise to help many others to do so as well.
Peace and freedom to all
Elena
Hi All,
I am new to the Angel Shares and Bit Shares concept and trying to learn my way in. :)
I just read the "Announcing Angel Shares & BitShares Allocation"
I went to my BlockChain wallet and sent few bitcoins to the address that shows on the post.
I cant see that I got any Angel Shares back. Again - Sorry for the ignorance but if you help me understand I promise to help many others to do so as well.
Peace and freedom to all
Elena
Hi All,
I am new to the Angel Shares and Bit Shares concept and trying to learn my way in. :)
I just read the "Announcing Angel Shares & BitShares Allocation"
I went to my BlockChain wallet and sent few bitcoins to the address that shows on the post.
I cant see that I got any Angel Shares back. Again - Sorry for the ignorance but if you help me understand I promise to help many others to do so as well.
Peace and freedom to all
Elena
Elena,
AngelShares are not transferrable and represent a donation into the DAC ecosystem. The record of your donation is logged in the respective blockchains. When a new DAC is launched, such as BitShares you will be able to import your Bitcoin/ProtoShares wallet and claim your BTS as a result of your donation.
The AngelShare system is setup to encourage dollar cost average investing that gives everyone an equal opportunity to get in.
If you sent payment from a wallet where you do not control the private key (web wallet, exchange, etc) then the exchange will be given your AGS/BTS and I am afraid there is nothing we can do other than thank you for your contribution to the cause.
Dan
3. You mentioned "wallet where you do not control the private key (web wallet, exchange, etc)
Does the wallet in BlockChain.info is such?
Can you refer the rest of us to how such 'qualified' wallet is being created.
Lets say I have some BTC/PTS in my wallets. I send a portion of my BTC to the required address. The rest of the BTC goes to a new address generated in my wallet. So next time I send BTC those will be from a mixture of addresses. Will that cause a problem to claim the AngelShares?
Since we are close to the 2nd deadline to be over, can I find a list which shows how much of each was donated each day?
Lets say I have some BTC/PTS in my wallets. I send a portion of my BTC to the required address. The rest of the BTC goes to a new address generated in my wallet. So next time I send BTC those will be from a mixture of addresses. Will that cause a problem to claim the AngelShares?
Since we are close to the 2nd deadline to be over, can I find a list which shows how much of each was donated each day?
No problem with your wallet. We assume all inputs to a transaction belong to the same person so assign the full balance to the first input address. angelshares.info/beta is where you will eventually be able to get stats once the bounty is won for the Angel Share explorer.
Looks like the sell wall at BTER has disappeared... no one is selling PTS right now!
http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/orderbook.php?pair=pts-btc&market=bter
Looks like the sell wall at BTER has disappeared... no one is selling PTS right now!
http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/orderbook.php?pair=pts-btc&market=bter
I dunno, I just bought some at bter so someone is selling :)
Do AGS 1:1 map to BTS? For example, if one investor has 100 AGS, can he claim 100 BTS by 100 AGS? Or only 10%=10BTS? If only 10%, I do not think this is a good idea. Please clarify.
Do AGS 1:1 map to BTS? For example, if one investor has 100 AGS, can he claim 100 BTS by 100 AGS? Or only 10%=10BTS? If only 10%, I do not think this is a good idea. Please clarify.
If Investor has X AGS out of T total AGS issued then they get X/T * 2000000 BTC out of a total of 4M BTC.
Dan
Do AGS 1:1 map to BTS? For example, if one investor has 100 AGS, can he claim 100 BTS by 100 AGS? Or only 10%=10BTS? If only 10%, I do not think this is a good idea. Please clarify.
If Investor has X AGS out of T total AGS issued then they get X/T * 2000000 BTC out of a total of 4M BTC.
Dan
The T should equal to 200M from the beginning of this thread, or still changing?
We are establishing the share allocation of BitShares 1.0 which will have 4 million total shares. 2 million will be allocated proportional to PTS holders and 2 million proportional to AngelShare (AGS) holders.
So looking at the bitcoin address for angelshares, is the tx of 8btc shown at around 2 05 am 2/1/2014 included in the date of '1/1' or '2/1'?
We are establishing the share allocation of BitShares 1.0 which will have 4 million total shares. 2 million will be allocated proportional to PTS holders and 2 million proportional to AngelShare (AGS) holders.
Hi guys, I just wanted to confirm this was right.
Will there still be 20 000 000 Bitshares in total and AGS & PTS will make up 4 million of that total?
Or will there only be 4 million BTS in total now?
Thanks
Edit: Ok pretty sure it looks like 4 million total from the posts above but just wanted to confirm as makes a big difference.
Gonna keep asking this in both threads since this keeps getting buried with no response.
The OP states:
A) There will be 10,000 angelshares set aside proportionally for keyhotee founders.
b) There will be 200 x (5,000 x 2) rewarded over the course of 200 days.
That does not sum to 2,000,000, that sums to 2,010,000.
Can someone explain this?
I already responded to this once. First 2 days were Keyhotee Founders, and Christmas to Jan 1, then 198 days after that.
We are establishing the share allocation of BitShares 1.0 which will have 4 million total shares. 2 million will be allocated proportional to PTS holders and 2 million proportional to AngelShare (AGS) holders.
Hi guys, I just wanted to confirm this was right.
Will there still be 20 000 000 Bitshares in total and AGS & PTS will make up 4 million of that total?
Or will there only be 4 million BTS in total now?
Thanks
Edit: Ok pretty sure it looks like 4 million total from the posts above but just wanted to confirm as makes a big difference.
Total of 4 million. Period.
We are establishing the share allocation of BitShares 1.0 which will have 4 million total shares. 2 million will be allocated proportional to PTS holders and 2 million proportional to AngelShare (AGS) holders.
Hi guys, I just wanted to confirm this was right.
Will there still be 20 000 000 Bitshares in total and AGS & PTS will make up 4 million of that total?
Or will there only be 4 million BTS in total now?
Thanks
Edit: Ok pretty sure it looks like 4 million total from the posts above but just wanted to confirm as makes a big difference.
Total of 4 million. Period.
This is EPIC. (I would have replied yesterday but I bought up loads of PTS after you clarified that!)
According to my calculations -
From the launch of PTS up until 1 week ago, PTS only made up 10% of Bitshares issuance. (2 million PTS would be given the first 2 million Bitshares out of a total of 20 million Bitshares.)
Nearly everybody was buying PTS to get Bitshares.
So when PTS was +-$20 each, it was really valuing those future Bitshares at up to $20 each.
Given that there would be 20 million Bitshares, PTS was implying a speculative market cap for Bitshares of up to $400 million. (20 million x $20 = $400 million)
The announcement that there will now only be 4 million Bitshares is EPIC. PTS now gives you 5x more of the total Bitshares issuance (50% vs. 10%) than it did a week ago! (I.e. The speculative market cap of Bitshares is now divided by 4 million not 20 million. Potentially revaluing PTS from $20 to $100 each!) It will be interesting to see how much of that adjustment the market price will reflect in the next week or two!
Other: (Because of the illiquidity of Angelshares, my maths says I need about 1.8 AGS per PTS to make it worthwhile exchanging my PTS for AGS at this stage. My ratio will decrease as we get closer to the Bitshares launch provided good progress is visible. However I'd be interested to hear how other people value AGS ATM.)
On Christmas Day I was asking, "Where's the Kaboom? There's supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom!"
(http://just-thinkin.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Marvin-Kaboom-small.jpg)
I think its just very difficult for the market to value the idea.
BitShares will have an untapped CFD market in the US and an untapped foreign exchange market in China (as these services are currently illegal in the respective countries).
Trading in foreign exchange markets averaged $5.3 trillion per day! Kaboom!!!!
If we capture a 0.1% of this market, and receive 0.1% of trade turnover as fees (dividends) you looking at annual earnings per share of $468!
Berkshire Hathaway will be doing an earnings per share thats twice as good, but each share cost $176,807.
So where does that put PTS...
So a competitive service will have allot of space that it can gobble up.
Perhaps the price is depressed due to perceived risk. I believe when Keyhotee launches people will be able to see something tangible and perceived risk may be reduced.
On Christmas Day I was asking, "Where's the Kaboom? There's supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom!"
(http://just-thinkin.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Marvin-Kaboom-small.jpg)
I have one question...
I donate small amount of PTS to address PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw.
When i go to site: https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Addresses/PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw next to my amount that i donated i see different address that is not mine. (Address that is standing is PuwPg6mLcRqXcVYjGBt8KN2EWJLKxfge4t, but mine is PvUTfVVyTJhZp1JgVd8TasQvQJ2wgMuguL).
What seems to be problem here? I donated twice already, and everything was ok, but today's donation is not?
I have one question...
I donate small amount of PTS to address PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw.
When i go to site: https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Addresses/PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw next to my amount that i donated i see different address that is not mine. (Address that is standing is PuwPg6mLcRqXcVYjGBt8KN2EWJLKxfge4t, but mine is PvUTfVVyTJhZp1JgVd8TasQvQJ2wgMuguL).
What seems to be problem here? I donated twice already, and everything was ok, but today's donation is not?
I sent it from my wallet... So everything seems to be ok then? Can i expect this in other donation?I have one question...
I donate small amount of PTS to address PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw.
When i go to site: https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Addresses/PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw next to my amount that i donated i see different address that is not mine. (Address that is standing is PuwPg6mLcRqXcVYjGBt8KN2EWJLKxfge4t, but mine is PvUTfVVyTJhZp1JgVd8TasQvQJ2wgMuguL).
What seems to be problem here? I donated twice already, and everything was ok, but today's donation is not?
As long as you sent it from your PTS client and you control the private keys behind that client you should be fine. The address was sent with a hidden PTS address that is yours, but cannot see.
We also announced that BTS would be 2x as profitable as mining fees would no longer be split with miners.
Ah, I've realised why the PTS price might be suppressed by the AGS allocation.
To get AGS you either need to contribute to the PTS or BTC fund.
But most Bitshares believers will already have made their max $ bitshare allocation into PTS.
But when they see that the BTC to AGS address is more lucrative than PTS to AGS they willl want to put BTC into there. However they've already invested their max $ into PTS, so the only way for them to unlock/offset funds for the BTC to AGS address is to sell PTS.
So the BTC to AGS address may inadvertantly create some selling pressure on PTS (by Bitshares believers) that is hard to offset with new demand in the quiet New Year week.
And every btc investment increases pts value by having more "real" capital behind things.
The market will do the right thing
Ah, I've realised why the PTS price might be suppressed by the AGS allocation.
To get AGS you either need to contribute to the PTS or BTC fund.
But most Bitshares believers will already have made their max $ bitshare allocation into PTS.
But when they see that the BTC to AGS address is more lucrative than PTS to AGS they willl want to put BTC into there. However they've already invested their max $ into PTS, so the only way for them to unlock/offset funds for the BTC to AGS address is to sell PTS.
So the BTC to AGS address may inadvertantly create some selling pressure on PTS (by Bitshares believers) that is hard to offset with new demand in the quiet New Year week.
Play the game to maximize your stake in the genesis of all upcoming DACs.
Everything else is just noise.
:)
Ah, I've realised why the PTS price might be suppressed by the AGS allocation.
To get AGS you either need to contribute to the PTS or BTC fund.
But most Bitshares believers will already have made their max $ bitshare allocation into PTS.
But when they see that the BTC to AGS address is more lucrative than PTS to AGS they willl want to put BTC into there. However they've already invested their max $ into PTS, so the only way for them to unlock/offset funds for the BTC to AGS address is to sell PTS.
So the BTC to AGS address may inadvertantly create some selling pressure on PTS (by Bitshares believers) that is hard to offset with new demand in the quiet New Year week.
Is BTC to AGS address really more lucrative than PTS to AGS? Take Jan 1st, 2014 for example, there are 61.86 BTC totally to AGS and 2269.99 PTS totally to AGS, the price should be 1/61.86*5000 AGS/BTC=80.82 AGS/BTC, 1/2269.99*5000 AGS/PTS = 2.2 AGS/PTS alternatively. 1 PTS = 0.025 BTC on Jan 1st, 2014, rewrite the AGS/PTS price here, 2.2 AGS/PTS = 2.2/0.025 AGS/BTC = 88 AGS/BTC!!!
What do you really think???
Ah, I've realised why the PTS price might be suppressed by the AGS allocation.
To get AGS you either need to contribute to the PTS or BTC fund.
But most Bitshares believers will already have made their max $ bitshare allocation into PTS.
But when they see that the BTC to AGS address is more lucrative than PTS to AGS they willl want to put BTC into there. However they've already invested their max $ into PTS, so the only way for them to unlock/offset funds for the BTC to AGS address is to sell PTS.
So the BTC to AGS address may inadvertantly create some selling pressure on PTS (by Bitshares believers) that is hard to offset with new demand in the quiet New Year week.
Is BTC to AGS address really more lucrative than PTS to AGS? Take Jan 1st, 2014 for example, there are 61.86 BTC totally to AGS and 2269.99 PTS totally to AGS, the price should be 1/61.86*5000 AGS/BTC=80.82 AGS/BTC, 1/2269.99*5000 AGS/PTS = 2.2 AGS/PTS alternatively. 1 PTS = 0.025 BTC on Jan 1st, 2014, rewrite the AGS/PTS price here, 2.2 AGS/PTS = 2.2/0.025 AGS/BTC = 88 AGS/BTC!!!
What do you really think???
What do I really think? (Well only because you asked the question in such unnecessary big red letters with three question marks.)
I think maybe you're not very smart???
Firstly: Day 1 was closer than you suggest. (PTS was 0.027 not 0.025)
& I think yesterday you will find that BTC to AGS was more favourable than PTS to AGS, which may inspire PTS to BTC selling today.
Secondly: The end of day prices you are using, don't show how the process I am suggesting played out. (Think of the addresses like balancing weight scales, if one gets too full early in the day, people may start putting there funds into the other address to even it out...)
Anyway the point is it's not a bad thing if my idea is partly correct, because, once the general crypto market gets busier next week, the trend will probably reverse. (Especially when some form of Keyhotee is released, because even though it's not related to Bitshares it inspires confidence in the team behind Bitshares.)
So all it means imo is that this is a GREAT week to buy both PTS &/or AGS because both are potentially much cheaper than they will be next week.
What happens if I send BTC from Bitstamp? How do I get the AGS then?
What happens if I send BTC from Bitstamp? How do I get the AGS then?
You must control the private keys to receive AGS. If you send from BitStamp you will not control your keys.
What happens if I send BTC from Bitstamp? How do I get the AGS then?
You must control the private keys to receive AGS. If you send from BitStamp you will not control your keys.
Same goes for Blockchain Wallet? Do I need to send it from Bitcoin QT then as an only option?
Ok one more thing. Is it safe to send 1PTS today from the PTS wallet and assume it will bring me more than 1 AGS?
Ok one more thing. Is it safe to send 1PTS today from the PTS wallet and assume it will bring me more than 1 AGS?
I think that is probably a safe assumption, it has averaged about 2:1 for the first 3 days.
Ok one more thing. Is it safe to send 1PTS today from the PTS wallet and assume it will bring me more than 1 AGS?
I think that is probably a safe assumption, it has averaged about 2:1 for the first 3 days.
Wouldn't it be also safe to assume that with time, there will be less and less PTS sent into the AGS blockchain?, meaning - in weeks (or until the AGS "promo" is available) there will be less PTS sent daily on average than right now when the interest is high and fresh.
Ok one more thing. Is it safe to send 1PTS today from the PTS wallet and assume it will bring me more than 1 AGS?
I think that is probably a safe assumption, it has averaged about 2:1 for the first 3 days.
Wouldn't it be also safe to assume that with time, there will be less and less PTS sent into the AGS blockchain?, meaning - in weeks (or until the AGS "promo" is available) there will be less PTS sent daily on average than right now when the interest is high and fresh.
We've been assuming just the opposite. As more and more people find out about this, the competition should heat up - just like it typically does with mining as the word spreads. Especially as we approach the release of a DAC when no sane person will be selling PTS -- leaving AGS as the last chance to get a primordial stake. Then there's our coming marketing campaign intended to bring in outside demand for the first time. 99.999999999% of the world hasn't heard of this deal yet. I'm converting my shares while I can still enjoy the ~2:1 premium.
However, this does not constitute financial advice... :)
Play the game to maximize your stake in the genesis of all upcoming DACs.
Everything else is just noise.
:)
Play the game to maximize your stake in the genesis of all upcoming DACs.
Everything else is just noise.
:)
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't this mean it would be wiser to leave your PTS alone since the PTS will have a stake in ALL of the future DACs (third party AND Invictus ones)
If you go for the AGS you get only the share in the "1st party DACs".
Play the game to maximize your stake in the genesis of all upcoming DACs.
Everything else is just noise.
:)
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't this mean it would be wiser to leave your PTS alone since the PTS will have a stake in ALL of the future DACs (third party AND Invictus ones)
If you go for the AGS you get only the share in the "1st party DACs".
We are building infrastructure... you get a cut in any DAC that uses our code whether we release it or not.
Play the game to maximize your stake in the genesis of all upcoming DACs.
Everything else is just noise.
:)
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't this mean it would be wiser to leave your PTS alone since the PTS will have a stake in ALL of the future DACs (third party AND Invictus ones)
If you go for the AGS you get only the share in the "1st party DACs".
We are building infrastructure... you get a cut in any DAC that uses our code whether we release it or not.
But not with AGS if I understood correctly from the Social Contract. But it's impossible for me to know what the future will be in terms of success of "homegrown DACS vs 3rd party ones that use your code". It's impossible even for you, insiders and developers to know, but maybe you could share some insights how you think things might develop?
A Noob question:
If donated several times in the last days with bitcoin qt and protoshares qt. Every time I did this, a new address was made.
So for each address that holds ags, I need to dump the private key.
When the time comes, is there a way to ''autodump'' all keys, or do I have to dump every key separate?
And is there also a way to import multiple keys at once?
Bitshares 2 and all DACs afterwards, sponsored by Invictus will have a 10% PTS and 10% AGS allocation. Only Bitshares 1 is 50% PTS and 50% AGS
Bitshares 2 and all DACs afterwards, sponsored by Invictus will have a 10% PTS and 10% AGS allocation. Only Bitshares 1 is 50% PTS and 50% AGS
This is one very likely possibility, but we only guarantee that supported DACs must have at least 10% of each. Our position is that each DAC must be free to allocate the final 80% according to its funding needs, business model, and marketing strategy.
What makes sense for BitShares BEX will probably not make sense for BitShares LKS, for example. They have completely different client demographics, business models, and marketing strategies.
Bitshares 2 and all DACs afterwards, sponsored by Invictus will have a 10% PTS and 10% AGS allocation. Only Bitshares 1 is 50% PTS and 50% AGS
This is one very likely possibility, but we only guarantee that supported DACs must have at least 10% of each. Our position is that each DAC must be free to allocate the final 80% according to its funding needs, business model, and marketing strategy.
What makes sense for BitShares BEX will probably not make sense for BitShares LKS, for example. They have completely different client demographics, business models, and marketing strategies.
Can I just get some clarification. The initial bitshare chain will be the first of many chains under the flag BEX yes? It's not like we get 50/50 of the first 16 assets then 10/10 for the next chain of another 16 assets. The asset exchange although encompassing multiple chains will only honor BEXshares? When referring to subsequent bitshares chains we are talking about domainshares and luckyshares and so on yes?
Bitshares 2 and all DACs afterwards, sponsored by Invictus will have a 10% PTS and 10% AGS allocation. Only Bitshares 1 is 50% PTS and 50% AGS
This is one very likely possibility, but we only guarantee that supported DACs must have at least 10% of each. Our position is that each DAC must be free to allocate the final 80% according to its funding needs, business model, and marketing strategy.
What makes sense for BitShares BEX will probably not make sense for BitShares LKS, for example. They have completely different client demographics, business models, and marketing strategies.
Can I just get some clarification. The initial bitshare chain will be the first of many chains under the flag BEX yes? It's not like we get 50/50 of the first 16 assets then 10/10 for the next chain of another 16 assets. The asset exchange although encompassing multiple chains will only honor BEXshares? When referring to subsequent bitshares chains we are talking about domainshares and luckyshares and so on yes?
We are specifically referring to the currency trading chain which we expect to be the biggest and most relevant. The other chains where the only change is a redefinition of assets will likely follow the 50/50 allocation for lack of any justification for alternative allocations. We left the remaining 80% wiggle room merely to keep our options open in the event that AGS was a flop. Given the success of AGS I see no solid justification for an alternative allocation without significant additional development effort invested in creating the other chains.
Our general goal is to under promise and over deliver and so while we only promise 10/10/80 we will likely over-deliver. Please do not interpret these comments to imply that we will do anything in particular. Invest accordingly.
Bitshares 2 and all DACs afterwards, sponsored by Invictus will have a 10% PTS and 10% AGS allocation. Only Bitshares 1 is 50% PTS and 50% AGS
This is one very likely possibility, but we only guarantee that supported DACs must have at least 10% of each. Our position is that each DAC must be free to allocate the final 80% according to its funding needs, business model, and marketing strategy.
What makes sense for BitShares BEX will probably not make sense for BitShares LKS, for example. They have completely different client demographics, business models, and marketing strategies.
Can I just get some clarification. The initial bitshare chain will be the first of many chains under the flag BEX yes? It's not like we get 50/50 of the first 16 assets then 10/10 for the next chain of another 16 assets. The asset exchange although encompassing multiple chains will only honor BEXshares? When referring to subsequent bitshares chains we are talking about domainshares and luckyshares and so on yes?
We are specifically referring to the currency trading chain which we expect to be the biggest and most relevant. The other chains where the only change is a redefinition of assets will likely follow the 50/50 allocation for lack of any justification for alternative allocations. We left the remaining 80% wiggle room merely to keep our options open in the event that AGS was a flop. Given the success of AGS I see no solid justification for an alternative allocation without significant additional development effort invested in creating the other chains.
Our general goal is to under promise and over deliver and so while we only promise 10/10/80 we will likely over-deliver. Please do not interpret these comments to imply that we will do anything in particular. Invest accordingly.
(http://static.squarespace.com/static/51fb043ee4b0608e46483caf/t/52bb2f8be4b0d918c0342a40/1387999115673/Home%20Center.png?format=300w)
Does the Bitshares homepage not imply that anything "BitShares" will give 50% of ownings to AGS and 50% to PTS? With the branding effort to make BitShares an umbrella term, the logic seems to suggest that there would not be a 10/10/80% allocation on subsequent BitShares chains, but a 50/50% allocation. Correct me if I am wrong.
Question about Angel Shares.
I've read some of this thread, but it's getting pretty long... I apologize if this has been asked already.
With this whole donate-to-recieve Angel Shares thing, if there are only 5000 AGS for PTS per day, that means that it's a crap-shoot how many AGS I'll get for a given PTS donation? Why don't I just donate .0001 PTS per day?
Also, is there any advantage to holding AGS vs. PTS? I mean, I can at least trade PTS on an exchange.
Catching up here. Just when I thought I understood protoshares, and how they would be converted to bitshares, now angelshares are announced. For people who are intrigued by Invictus and would like to invest in AGS, can you simplify this process? Do I need an AGS wallet? If I donate to the addressed listed, how do I know how many AGS I've received in return? Where do I "store" them safely? Where can I look to see which days are slower than others? The Angelshares page of the website is down so I can't find anything there...
This all seems way more complicated than it should be and is probably turning potential investors off. I'm not trying to be negative, but man, is there a simpler way to do all of this?
Catching up here. Just when I thought I understood protoshares, and how they would be converted to bitshares, now angelshares are announced. For people who are intrigued by Invictus and would like to invest in AGS, can you simplify this process? Do I need an AGS wallet? If I donate to the addressed listed, how do I know how many AGS I've received in return? Where do I "store" them safely? Where can I look to see which days are slower than others? The Angelshares page of the website is down so I can't find anything there...
This all seems way more complicated than it should be and is probably turning potential investors off. I'm not trying to be negative, but man, is there a simpler way to do all of this?
Catching up here. Just when I thought I understood protoshares, and how they would be converted to bitshares, now angelshares are announced. For people who are intrigued by Invictus and would like to invest in AGS, can you simplify this process? Do I need an AGS wallet? If I donate to the addressed listed, how do I know how many AGS I've received in return? Where do I "store" them safely? Where can I look to see which days are slower than others? The Angelshares page of the website is down so I can't find anything there...
This all seems way more complicated than it should be and is probably turning potential investors off. I'm not trying to be negative, but man, is there a simpler way to do all of this?
Download Bitcoin-Qt or ProtoShares-Qt send PTS or BTC from that wallet to the Angel address and keep your wallet file secure. You can track status a www.agsexplorer.com or angelshares.info.
Catching up here. Just when I thought I understood protoshares, and how they would be converted to bitshares, now angelshares are announced. For people who are intrigued by Invictus and would like to invest in AGS, can you simplify this process? Do I need an AGS wallet? If I donate to the addressed listed, how do I know how many AGS I've received in return? Where do I "store" them safely? Where can I look to see which days are slower than others? The Angelshares page of the website is down so I can't find anything there...
This all seems way more complicated than it should be and is probably turning potential investors off. I'm not trying to be negative, but man, is there a simpler way to do all of this?
So after donating some PTS to the AGS address using my PTS wallet I should just be able to point the bitsharesBEX client (and other DAC clients) at the PTS wallet and this should import my Bitshares (or shares in other DACs).Catching up here. Just when I thought I understood protoshares, and how they would be converted to bitshares, now angelshares are announced. For people who are intrigued by Invictus and would like to invest in AGS, can you simplify this process? Do I need an AGS wallet? If I donate to the addressed listed, how do I know how many AGS I've received in return? Where do I "store" them safely? Where can I look to see which days are slower than others? The Angelshares page of the website is down so I can't find anything there...
This all seems way more complicated than it should be and is probably turning potential investors off. I'm not trying to be negative, but man, is there a simpler way to do all of this?
AGS is not a coin, but a share. Its basically a donation, and I3 will provide you with the appropriate DACs when they are released (Bitshares, Domainshares etc).
You need to send BTC or PTS from your own wallet (so you own the private keys). All you have to do is keep hold of the wallets you donated from (or rather the private keys).
So after donating some PTS to the AGS address using my PTS wallet I should just be able to point the bitsharesBEX client (and other DAC clients) at the PTS wallet and this should import my Bitshares (or shares in other DACs).Catching up here. Just when I thought I understood protoshares, and how they would be converted to bitshares, now angelshares are announced. For people who are intrigued by Invictus and would like to invest in AGS, can you simplify this process? Do I need an AGS wallet? If I donate to the addressed listed, how do I know how many AGS I've received in return? Where do I "store" them safely? Where can I look to see which days are slower than others? The Angelshares page of the website is down so I can't find anything there...
This all seems way more complicated than it should be and is probably turning potential investors off. I'm not trying to be negative, but man, is there a simpler way to do all of this?
AGS is not a coin, but a share. Its basically a donation, and I3 will provide you with the appropriate DACs when they are released (Bitshares, Domainshares etc).
You need to send BTC or PTS from your own wallet (so you own the private keys). All you have to do is keep hold of the wallets you donated from (or rather the private keys).
So I wont need to worry about not being able to see any AGS in the client or anything?
Just want to make sure I understand before donating (things get a bit confusing when cash starts turning into numbers on a client, and then those numbers turn into shares on a client, and then those numbers disappear. I take a deep breath and journey further down this rabbit hole go. hahaha).
Have people been using the blockchain.info bitcoin wallet to make donations to AGS?
Is this okay to do?
I found out that using blockchain.info for this pupose is very technical. Has everyone been using the original client. I'm trying to download this but its taking forever to syncYeah it can take a extremely long time to sync up a fresh bitcoin-qt client, it has to download somewhere around 13.5GB of data. https://blockchain.info/charts/blocks-size
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