Maybe it's time to do a proof of burn into a proto-asset that actually trades on the first Bitshares chain. Seems miners don't understand why they'd want to keep mining now that Bitshares has split off.
Maybe it's time to do a proof of burn into a proto-asset that actually trades on the first Bitshares chain. Seems miners don't understand why they'd want to keep mining now that Bitshares has split off.
I don't think this is a good idea, I think it's good if PTS is kept "pure".
We actually don't care if there are barely any miners, we just care that they dropped so quickly that the difficulty doesn't have time to adjust and so blocks are slowed down
1-2 block per hour it's not a problem, the main problem which we have it's that not all pools include tx into blocks: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=831.msg41839#msg41839re: the thread you linked, I'm 99% sure that doesn't apply here (and isn't practice by ypool anymore, anyway)
I found one, but as I see we have another one, which I can't find, maybe it's a solo miner.
1-2 block per hour it's not a problem, the main problem which we have it's that not all pools include tx into blocks: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=831.msg41839#msg41839re: the thread you linked, I'm 99% sure that doesn't apply here (and isn't practice by ypool anymore, anyway)
I found one, but as I see we have another one, which I can't find, maybe it's a solo miner.
I'll quote Stan, since his extremely condescending reply on another thread would be appropriate here as well
Knowledge and understanding is the ultimate proof of work.
People are sending transactions with zero fees, there are no longer ~5-10 blocks every hour, now there are 1 or 2. That means many of these transactions won't get into blocks for quite a long time.
Actually considering PTS is not meant as a currency, confirmation times are not terribly important as it will simply increase the number of transactions included per block (grouping) while also reducing the inflation / debasement rate. Sure it may be 'annoying', but as someone who holds a lot of PTS I see this as reducing the rate of inflation by 90% for the next month at the cost of some delays when I make a transaction.
I am fairly sure that if you counted the 'inflation rate' as part of your transaction fees you would consider a one hour processing time a fair trade.
Maybe it's time to do a proof of burn into a proto-asset that actually trades on the first Bitshares chain. Seems miners don't understand why they'd want to keep mining now that Bitshares has split off.
Maybe it's time to do a proof of burn into a proto-asset that actually trades on the first Bitshares chain. Seems miners don't understand why they'd want to keep mining now that Bitshares has split off.
i stopped ming right after the snapshot. The diff increase the week before cut 2 grand on hardware in half. in 2 more weeks, it drops in half again. This will be impossible for anyone who doesn't have free power. PTS will die because of this massive diff increases. The snapshot and fork made things worse than they should have been. People were not anticipating the diff increase to be so severe. If 2600cpm gave you 1 pts a day a few weeks ago, diff increase the other week cut that that around .3 pts. Next diff increase puts you at .15. Fuck man, it is like they are trying to force people away from PTS. Which i guess makes sense but it wasn't something that was talked about. Now having all this PTS is purely a hope that BTS turns into something worthwhile, and essentially the massive price drop made all the work of mining completely worthless. If you can by a PTS share for 5-6 dollars on the 1st of march, you miss the very first fork but have BTS in everything else once you buy, you basically say "fuck you miners, you got us started and now we are ditching you." I am kind of irritated, i guess i should have been smart enough to understand that concept way before i started mining, but there were so many changes leading up the the snap shot it is just ridiculous. Now, everyone who didn't mine was able to buy massive stake in PTS to gain BTS for all the next DACs that come out. It is not like the bingo and music dacs are going to be something amazing and make any investment worth it.... It is a slap in the face, anyone who mined should have sold at $20, right when the snapshot was announced.
Maybe it's time to do a proof of burn into a proto-asset that actually trades on the first Bitshares chain. Seems miners don't understand why they'd want to keep mining now that Bitshares has split off.
i stopped ming right after the snapshot. The diff increase the week before cut 2 grand on hardware in half. in 2 more weeks, it drops in half again. This will be impossible for anyone who doesn't have free power. PTS will die because of this massive diff increases. The snapshot and fork made things worse than they should have been. People were not anticipating the diff increase to be so severe. If 2600cpm gave you 1 pts a day a few weeks ago, diff increase the other week cut that that around .3 pts. Next diff increase puts you at .15. Fuck man, it is like they are trying to force people away from PTS. Which i guess makes sense but it wasn't something that was talked about. Now having all this PTS is purely a hope that BTS turns into something worthwhile, and essentially the massive price drop made all the work of mining completely worthless. If you can by a PTS share for 5-6 dollars on the 1st of march, you miss the very first fork but have BTS in everything else once you buy, you basically say "fuck you miners, you got us started and now we are ditching you." I am kind of irritated, i guess i should have been smart enough to understand that concept way before i started mining, but there were so many changes leading up the the snap shot it is just ridiculous. Now, everyone who didn't mine was able to buy massive stake in PTS to gain BTS for all the next DACs that come out. It is not like the bingo and music dacs are going to be something amazing and make any investment worth it.... It is a slap in the face, anyone who mined should have sold at $20, right when the snapshot was announced.
Well, yeah. I had roughly 15 that I was able to sell on Cryptsy, but the other 80 got stuck on beedui.com when they decided to freeze the wallet at 20:00 local time, which I assume is because they had nfc as to when this was actually taking place, otherwise shutting off trading and withdrawing 15 hrs early makes no sense (err, well, unless you plan on taking everyone's stuff and closing the exchange). I transferred them to beedui since there was a bid in place that was approx. 15% higher than what PTS was selling for on cryptsy. By the time it got there (confirmations were slow), the bid was gone. I decided to put an ask up and wait a bit and see if anyone would bite... after about an hr, I decided it was too risky to wait any longer and that's when I noticed that I could no longer withdraw my PTS. LOL.
A lot of people here seem rather blasé about the whole situation. Alas, I'm not loaded with money, so the $1,000 I lost actually has meaning. There is no way in hell that those Bitshares are going to make up for what I lost... and I don't want to hear the crap about how "miners" should be informed. The exchanges, including Cryptsy, didn't even know wtf was going on....... I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the people on this forum didn't, either. I was planning on selling on the 27th, but I figured there might be a last second rush on the 28th from the ignorant and/or uninformed, so I held longer. However, I still would have sold at a minimum of .023 on Cryptsy, which is a hell of a lot better than .009 or whatever it's at now.
... and, pls, none of the BS about how PTS wasn't meant to be a currency or w/e. I ran a PTS node for 5 months, I ran a memorycoin node for a couple months, I've been posting on these forums for months. The indifference & cavalier attitudes on display here by the ""people in the know"" sure as hell doesn't inspire me going forward. You bet as soon as I'm able to sell those PTS that I'll do so, even if they're at .005.
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't PTS trading for a month or two at 0.013-0.015 until a couple weeks before the snapshot? So if you didn't fully capitalize on the short term spike, I imagine many miners did. PTS at 0.01 isn't that far a drop off from where it was before the snapshot spike, and now PTS has given those who rode the wave something new, the very promising Bitshares.
Maybe it's time to do a proof of burn into a proto-asset that actually trades on the first Bitshares chain. Seems miners don't understand why they'd want to keep mining now that Bitshares has split off.
i stopped ming right after the snapshot. The diff increase the week before cut 2 grand on hardware in half. in 2 more weeks, it drops in half again. This will be impossible for anyone who doesn't have free power. PTS will die because of this massive diff increases. The snapshot and fork made things worse than they should have been. People were not anticipating the diff increase to be so severe. If 2600cpm gave you 1 pts a day a few weeks ago, diff increase the other week cut that that around .3 pts. Next diff increase puts you at .15. Fuck man, it is like they are trying to force people away from PTS. Which i guess makes sense but it wasn't something that was talked about. Now having all this PTS is purely a hope that BTS turns into something worthwhile, and essentially the massive price drop made all the work of mining completely worthless. If you can by a PTS share for 5-6 dollars on the 1st of march, you miss the very first fork but have BTS in everything else once you buy, you basically say "fuck you miners, you got us started and now we are ditching you." I am kind of irritated, i guess i should have been smart enough to understand that concept way before i started mining, but there were so many changes leading up the the snap shot it is just ridiculous. Now, everyone who didn't mine was able to buy massive stake in PTS to gain BTS for all the next DACs that come out. It is not like the bingo and music dacs are going to be something amazing and make any investment worth it.... It is a slap in the face, anyone who mined should have sold at $20, right when the snapshot was announced.
Well, yeah. I had roughly 15 that I was able to sell on Cryptsy, but the other 80 got stuck on beedui.com when they decided to freeze the wallet at 20:00 local time, which I assume is because they had nfc as to when this was actually taking place, otherwise shutting off trading and withdrawing 15 hrs early makes no sense (err, well, unless you plan on taking everyone's stuff and closing the exchange). I transferred them to beedui since there was a bid in place that was approx. 15% higher than what PTS was selling for on cryptsy. By the time it got there (confirmations were slow), the bid was gone. I decided to put an ask up and wait a bit and see if anyone would bite... after about an hr, I decided it was too risky to wait any longer and that's when I noticed that I could no longer withdraw my PTS. LOL.
A lot of people here seem rather blasé about the whole situation. Alas, I'm not loaded with money, so the $1,000 I lost actually has meaning. There is no way in hell that those Bitshares are going to make up for what I lost... and I don't want to hear the crap about how "miners" should be informed. The exchanges, including Cryptsy, didn't even know wtf was going on....... I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the people on this forum didn't, either. I was planning on selling on the 27th, but I figured there might be a last second rush on the 28th from the ignorant and/or uninformed, so I held longer. However, I still would have sold at a minimum of .023 on Cryptsy, which is a hell of a lot better than .009 or whatever it's at now.
... and, pls, none of the BS about how PTS wasn't meant to be a currency or w/e. I ran a PTS node for 5 months, I ran a memorycoin node for a couple months, I've been posting on these forums for months. The indifference & cavalier attitudes on display here by the ""people in the know"" sure as hell doesn't inspire me going forward. You bet as soon as I'm able to sell those PTS that I'll do so, even if they're at .005.
No one here changed the PTS difficulty, and no one changed the algorithm by which it is determined, so I don't see how the difficulty increase can be seen as an insult to miners. The miners are the ones who raised the difficulty anyway, because they (collectively, clearly some miners disagree...) thought it was worthwhile to invest in mining lots of PTS before the snapshot. The current difficulty is a consequence of that community action, and slow blocks really aren't going to hurt PTS for anything for which it should be used. I'm pretty sure no one is using it at point of sale to buy fast food anyway...
I'm sorry you lost money, BTS-x and or potential gains, but it was pretty publicized when the snapshot was going to happen and for people to take all funds out of he exchanges. Multiple posts on the sub reddits and many posts here warned users of what they should do. I too don't have 100's of BTC to throw around at these speculative plays, so in that regard I feel you and hope you make money back elsewhere.well, I didn't want to remove my PTS from the exchanges, I wanted to sell it. I was thinking there might be a jump on the 28th, so I was holding most of mine still. i was wrong and there wasn't a jump in price, but I still would have ended up selling at .023 or so on cryptsy.
Unfortunately, there is nothing we could do to keep miners on board after a 60% price drop because miners are purchasing PTS just like everyone else, they just pay with electricity. The only thing we could do is switch PTS to a proof-of-stake coin.
We could try to 'talk up miners', but miners are economic actors who see that it is cheaper to get PTS by trading than mining and thus make different economic choices.
If the difficulty becomes a long term problem we can take measures to increase the transaction rate, but short of increasing voluntary transaction fees in an attempt to motivate additional miners there is nothing we could do. It would be like asking us to stop the price of PTS from falling after the BTS-X snapshot.
Unfortunately, there is nothing we could do to keep miners on board after a 60% price drop because miners are purchasing PTS just like everyone else, they just pay with electricity. The only thing we could do is switch PTS to a proof-of-stake coin.
We could try to 'talk up miners', but miners are economic actors who see that it is cheaper to get PTS by trading than mining and thus make different economic choices.
If the difficulty becomes a long term problem we can take measures to increase the transaction rate, but short of increasing voluntary transaction fees in an attempt to motivate additional miners there is nothing we could do. It would be like asking us to stop the price of PTS from falling after the BTS-X snapshot.
Push the price up with more forks from PTS.
Unfortunately, there is nothing we could do to keep miners on board after a 60% price drop because miners are purchasing PTS just like everyone else, they just pay with electricity. The only thing we could do is switch PTS to a proof-of-stake coin.but the PTS-difficulty-retarget-block-time is implemented like a dinosaur-thing from the good old times...
We could try to 'talk up miners', but miners are economic actors who see that it is cheaper to get PTS by trading than mining and thus make different economic choices.
If the difficulty becomes a long term problem we can take measures to increase the transaction rate, but short of increasing voluntary transaction fees in an attempt to motivate additional miners there is nothing we could do. It would be like asking us to stop the price of PTS from falling after the BTS-X snapshot.
Unfortunately, there is nothing we could do to keep miners on board after a 60% price drop because miners are purchasing PTS just like everyone else, they just pay with electricity. The only thing we could do is switch PTS to a proof-of-stake coin.but the PTS-difficulty-retarget-block-time is implemented like a dinosaur-thing from the good old times...
We could try to 'talk up miners', but miners are economic actors who see that it is cheaper to get PTS by trading than mining and thus make different economic choices.
If the difficulty becomes a long term problem we can take measures to increase the transaction rate, but short of increasing voluntary transaction fees in an attempt to motivate additional miners there is nothing we could do. It would be like asking us to stop the price of PTS from falling after the BTS-X snapshot.
why not having the fine Kimoto Gravity Well / every block a fresh difficulty?
but the PTS-difficulty-retarget-block-time is implemented like a dinosaur-thing from the good old times...
why not having the fine Kimoto Gravity Well / every block a fresh difficulty?
Unfortunately, there is nothing we could do to keep miners on board after a 60% price drop because miners are purchasing PTS just like everyone else, they just pay with electricity. The only thing we could do is switch PTS to a proof-of-stake coin.
We could try to 'talk up miners', but miners are economic actors who see that it is cheaper to get PTS by trading than mining and thus make different economic choices.
If the difficulty becomes a long term problem we can take measures to increase the transaction rate, but short of increasing voluntary transaction fees in an attempt to motivate additional miners there is nothing we could do. It would be like asking us to stop the price of PTS from falling after the BTS-X snapshot.
Guys, why do we care about this at all? Just because confirmation times are slower or what? Decreased mining interest is totally unrelated to interest in PTS overall, except that higher prices means it's more attractive to miners (NOT the other way around!)
Miners are going to start mining easier or more profitable coins which will likely cause the PTS price to decline further
Miners are going to start mining easier or more profitable coins which will likely cause the PTS price to decline further
That's backwards though, miners by necessity dump their coins to cover their costs so if there are fewer miners then there's less downwards pressure on the price. If everyone who is in it for mining profit leaves then the only people left mining are people running nodes for the sake of keeping PTS up who will not dump their coins. Why do people think more miners causes a higher price? Am I missing something?
Miners are going to start mining easier or more profitable coins which will likely cause the PTS price to decline further
That's backwards though, miners by necessity dump their coins to cover their costs so if there are fewer miners then there's less downwards pressure on the price. If everyone who is in it for mining profit leaves then the only people left mining are people running nodes for the sake of keeping PTS up who will not dump their coins. Why do people think more miners causes a higher price? Am I missing something?
You have it perfectly straight toast.... claiming miners increase price is like claiming wet sidewalks cause rain.
Miners are going to start mining easier or more profitable coins which will likely cause the PTS price to decline further
That's backwards though, miners by necessity dump their coins to cover their costs so if there are fewer miners then there's less downwards pressure on the price. If everyone who is in it for mining profit leaves then the only people left mining are people running nodes for the sake of keeping PTS up who will not dump their coins. Why do people think more miners causes a higher price? Am I missing something?
Miners are going to start mining easier or more profitable coins which will likely cause the PTS price to decline further
That's backwards though, miners by necessity dump their coins to cover their costs so if there are fewer miners then there's less downwards pressure on the price. If everyone who is in it for mining profit leaves then the only people left mining are people running nodes for the sake of keeping PTS up who will not dump their coins. Why do people think more miners causes a higher price? Am I missing something?
You have it perfectly straight toast.... claiming miners increase price is like claiming wet sidewalks cause rain.
So you are saying more miners cause lower prices then? Tell that to Bitcoin.
Not sure you thought that one through.Miners are going to start mining easier or more profitable coins which will likely cause the PTS price to decline further
That's backwards though, miners by necessity dump their coins to cover their costs so if there are fewer miners then there's less downwards pressure on the price. If everyone who is in it for mining profit leaves then the only people left mining are people running nodes for the sake of keeping PTS up who will not dump their coins. Why do people think more miners causes a higher price? Am I missing something?
How can miners mine for profit if Difficulty is so high they can't mine a profitable amount in a profitable time and confirmations and transactions take days?
Miners are mining at the same difficulty as was when the price was 2.5x today's price, it is not profitable, so they will quit and sell.
Your guys offhand remarks make me wonder if there is an ulterior motive for not trying to correct this. As suggested by user Schwede65 and FreeTrade, implement the Kimoto gravity well or something. Can that even be done at this point? If not, why?
I think the "is what it is" attitude is very concerning given your position.
Your coin has the potential to dry up. I don't know for sure, but the potential is there and if there is something you can do, you probably should.
Let's keep it simple, tell me which of these you disagree with:
1) The only way for the price to go up is for people to buy
2) The only way for the price to go down is for people to sell
3) Miners sell more than they buy
Let's keep it simple, tell me which of these you disagree with:
1) The only way for the price to go up is for people to buy
2) The only way for the price to go down is for people to sell
3) Miners sell more than they buy
This is why mining and AGS are more or less identical. Miners are effectively BUYING PTS with their hash power. When they can BUY LOW via mining and SELL high it creates an arb opportunity which drives more miners into the mix. Right now mining is like buying HIGH.
This can create a feedback loop where people stop mining because it isn't profitable, then leave a coin because transaction times are slow, then this causes the price to drop which causes more miners to leave, etc. This feedback loop only applies to coins that get their value from being a currency competitor. PTS gets its value for a different reason and thus the price will not fall simply because of long transaction times. There are some people willing to mine and forget and these people continue to mine.
The number of transactions-per-day supported by the network are not effected by this.
Your guys offhand remarks make me wonder if there is an ulterior motive for not trying to correct this. As suggested by user Schwede65 and FreeTrade, implement the Kimoto gravity well or something. Can that even be done at this point? If not, why?i haven't found an answer to this concern - changing + updating this old fashioned PTS-retarget-time!
I think the "is what it is" attitude is very concerning given your position.
Your coin has the potential to dry up. I don't know for sure, but the potential is there and if there is something you can do, you probably should.
I agree with barwizi, this *is* a major problem because while you have no intention of doing anything with your stock of hundreds of thousands of PTS, it means anyone trying to use PTS as a cryptocurrency, it works worse than the majority of coins out there and the only reason is because Invictus sucked the value out of PTS without doing any sort of job explaining why someone would want it in the future.
Something like this for example https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3363.0
You solve the miners-not-caring problem by making it likely they'll have a reason to care in the future. It would have been better if that had been articulated and incentivized before removing Bitshares from Protoshares but doing it now is better than doing it later.
Manage. Expectations. or hire a CEO who will.
Incidentally Daniel, are you the perm CEO at Invictus? I was under the impression when we spoke in December that you were moving to the CTO role and bringing in someone on the business side to take over as CEO/Frontman
Did that change?
Miners are going to start mining easier or more profitable coins which will likely cause the PTS price to decline further
That's backwards though, miners by necessity dump their coins to cover their costs so if there are fewer miners then there's less downwards pressure on the price. If everyone who is in it for mining profit leaves then the only people left mining are people running nodes for the sake of keeping PTS up who will not dump their coins. Why do people think more miners causes a higher price? Am I missing something?
You have it perfectly straight toast.... claiming miners increase price is like claiming wet sidewalks cause rain.
Buying AGS is more useful than mining, except to power companies.Also, since PTS is basically an investment vehicle and not an instant payment system, I don't really care if blocks take 30 minutes or an hour. Additionally, if the PTS mining is slower, that means that the PTS I already have will command a higher share in new DACs released before all PTS are mined.+5%
Adjusting the block targeting system would require forking, and hardly seems justified. The current system is working predictably, and no one is being cheated or harmed. I expect the market price of PTS to continue rising overall until the next snapshot, and the difficulty will eventually correct. Unfortunately the price of PTS already seems to be rising and I'm still waiting on Coinbase for my BTC. :P
Correct me if I'm wrong but if now since the total hashing power of the PTS network is dropped significantly, will difficulty not auto adjust down at the next retarget? So all miners should just chill for a month and come back mid-April. :-\ (Obviously keep some seed nodes up.)from specification...
either i'm the only one with a good memory or most of you were not around when a similar situation arose.
there was once a coin called China coin CNC, it died, a horrible death after the devs failed to deal with this similar situation. Get off that high horse and realize that it's mining that keeps the chain moving and transactions confirming. This will continue sliding and loosing value, moreover if a new DAC was announced in the coming few days, miners would return and mine...the price will rise and so will the difficulty. After the snapshot, it will be abandoned again, this time with even higher difficulty and worse dumping because people will be expecting the price drop.
know that how you deal with the situation reflects on your commitment to PTS holders.
If Invictus wants to have all their PTS mined then this is not the correct way, if they simply do not care then that is that :D
either i'm the only one with a good memory or most of you were not around when a similar situation arose.
there was once a coin called China coin CNC, it died, a horrible death after the devs failed to deal with this similar situation. Get off that high horse and realize that it's mining that keeps the chain moving and transactions confirming. This will continue sliding and loosing value, moreover if a new DAC was announced in the coming few days, miners would return and mine...the price will rise and so will the difficulty. After the snapshot, it will be abandoned again, this time with even higher difficulty and worse dumping because people will be expecting the price drop.
know that how you deal with the situation reflects on your commitment to PTS holders.
We are PTS holders... :)
We don't want to do a hard fork if we can avoid it. We don't want to divert resources from other priorities if we can avoid it.
Hopefully it will gradually recalibrate on its own until we reach 2,000,000 in circulation. Then we have the option to upgrade just once to our new BitShares standard which would eliminate these problems and perhaps add other TBD benefits.
We don't want
We don't want to divert resources
Hopefully it will gradually recalibrate
TBD benefits.
t
If you start abandoning projects now or being complacent because of "indefinite future upgrades", lol watch the price plunge along with mass loss of confidence and trust in your group. Even the guy who did the coding for you Freetrade agrees that this needs to be addressed.
The investors here are mainly miners and (day)traders.
guess I'll just sit on my PTS, BTS, and AGS until it appreciates or starts returning dividends, I was always going long on this investment anyway. For me, it makes no sense to keep going for around 1 PTS a day.
QuoteThe investors here are mainly miners and (day)traders.
Personally, I'd love it if all those people dumped their PTS.Quoteguess I'll just sit on my PTS, BTS, and AGS until it appreciates or starts returning dividends, I was always going long on this investment anyway. For me, it makes no sense to keep going for around 1 PTS a day.
Great! Good thinking.
I think this thread is full of people trying to mine for a profit who are confused about their role in the cryptocurrency space
t
If you start abandoning projects now or being complacent because of "indefinite future upgrades", lol watch the price plunge along with mass loss of confidence and trust in your group. Even the guy who did the coding for you Freetrade agrees that this needs to be addressed.
you do not real understand PTS. it is a IPO-share. 2m is the total. As long as there is still some hash power then PTS is safe. as a shareholder, i do not like more shares (pts)in the market. the miners will be back if 3i announce another new DAC. as long as there is more than six block been generated per day then we are fine.
as long as there is more than six block been generated per day then we are fine.
As a shareholder you want your share to be popular. If the BTS-X will NOT be popular and will have a bad value there will hardly be any bump in value of the PTS EVER.
Yeah, I could see their frustration then. It's not a "coin" like most miners are used to, although it does have that feel, uses a QT wallet, etc. When I learned about PTS and started mining last year, it was all about mining as many "shares" as possible as a stake in future dividends. I always saw it as long term, as in many months to years. I have only mined, purchased more, and donated for AGS. I'll continue this, but via Scrypt as I can make more BTC, in a Rube Goldberg method to get more PTS then mining directly. ;)QuoteThe investors here are mainly miners and (day)traders.
Personally, I'd love it if all those people dumped their PTS.Quoteguess I'll just sit on my PTS, BTS, and AGS until it appreciates or starts returning dividends, I was always going long on this investment anyway. For me, it makes no sense to keep going for around 1 PTS a day.
Great! Good thinking.
I think this thread is full of people trying to mine for a profit who are confused about their role in the cryptocurrency space
QuoteThe investors here are mainly miners and (day)traders.
Personally, I'd love it if all those people dumped their PTS.Quoteguess I'll just sit on my PTS, BTS, and AGS until it appreciates or starts returning dividends, I was always going long on this investment anyway. For me, it makes no sense to keep going for around 1 PTS a day.
Great! Good thinking.
I think this thread is full of people trying to mine for a profit who are confused about their role in the cryptocurrency space
2) the difficulty WILL kill PTS if it's not addressed.
it is a good thing for new investor
1) PTS is de-valuing
you will see another gold rush when 3I announce new snapshot.
2) the difficulty WILL kill PTS if it's not addressed.
3) Trust and confidence will die if this is not addressed in a timely fashion.
How would a catastrophic fork happen if the difficulty is so high miners can barely make an honest chain?
edit: derp nvm ignore that ^^Quote2) the difficulty WILL kill PTS if it's not addressed.
I guess I still don't understand this argument. Time between blocks will increase to longer than one day or something? Actually it'd be useful to know exactly how much minimum mining power the network needs to keep block times under 1 day
it is a good thing for new investor
1) PTS is de-valuingyou will see another gold rush when 3I announce new snapshot.
2) the difficulty WILL kill PTS if it's not addressed.
the only concern is 51% attack but it is unlikely happened due to worthless to do so.
3) Trust and confidence will die if this is not addressed in a timely fashion.
that is fine for long term investor. we all agreed it take time to complete a solid decentralized trading platform
Our options are:
1) Hard fork and forcing everyone to upgrade
2) Get products out there and increase the value of PTS
3) Wait it out.
The hard fork option is likely to take a week of our time dealing with support, testing, etc.
The solution for those who want to see their transactions to go through faster is to pay more for it. This will reward those who do mine and if enough people randomly tip miners then they will start to factor that in.
Worst case: the PTS chain completely freezes because no one mines. They still have value, they are just less liquid until their value increases. Our preferred approach is to maximize our time spent increasing their value.
another interesting academic question... PTS is different than any other altcoin. If every miner in the world suddenly stops mining PTS, it still has value. PTS, at that point, has become just like AGS. An untradeable asset that represents a share in future I3 DACs.
If every miner in the world stops mining litecoin, it becomes worthless. PTS is different.
Ok... I will offer a 500 PTS bounty for the best solution to this problem. Testz, as the maintainer, of PTS right now will be responsible for reviewing and applying it and producing a release.+5%
In the mean time, we should have an updated checkpoint ASAP to minimize any damage from potential attacks.
Ok... I will offer a 500 PTS bounty for the best solution to this problem. Testz, as the maintainer, of PTS right now will be responsible for reviewing and applying it and producing a release.
In the mean time, we should have an updated checkpoint ASAP to minimize any damage from potential attacks.
Ok... I will offer a 500 PTS bounty for the best solution to this problem. Testz, as the maintainer, of PTS right now will be responsible for reviewing and applying it and producing a release.
In the mean time, we should have an updated checkpoint ASAP to minimize any damage from potential attacks.
Ok... I will offer a 500 PTS bounty for the best solution to this problem. Testz, as the maintainer, of PTS right now will be responsible for reviewing and applying it and producing a release.
In the mean time, we should have an updated checkpoint ASAP to minimize any damage from potential attacks.
You can break up that 500 PTS and send out as transaction fees. That alone should be enough to tide over the problem; not to mention will also generate a buzz.
With only 20% left to mine, it doesn't seem worth the trouble to hard fork it. Even if you do, if you are just paying to implement KGW, then 500 PTS sounds a lot (though the challenges may be different 'coz this is not just any scrypt coin, and so maybe worth it).
Ok... I will offer a 500 PTS bounty for the best solution to this problem. Testz, as the maintainer, of PTS right now will be responsible for reviewing and applying it and producing a release.
In the mean time, we should have an updated checkpoint ASAP to minimize any damage from potential attacks.
You can break up that 500 PTS and send out as transaction fees. That alone should be enough to tide over the problem; not to mention will also generate a buzz.
With only 20% left to mine, it doesn't seem worth the trouble to hard fork it. Even if you do, if you are just paying to implement KGW, then 500 PTS sounds a lot (though the challenges may be different 'coz this is not just any scrypt coin, and so maybe worth it).
A hard fork is a lot of effort & support to do RIGHT.
Ok... I will offer a 500 PTS bounty for the best solution to this problem. Testz, as the maintainer, of PTS right now will be responsible for reviewing and applying it and producing a release.
In the mean time, we should have an updated checkpoint ASAP to minimize any damage from potential attacks.
You can break up that 500 PTS and send out as transaction fees. That alone should be enough to tide over the problem; not to mention will also generate a buzz.
With only 20% left to mine, it doesn't seem worth the trouble to hard fork it. Even if you do, if you are just paying to implement KGW, then 500 PTS sounds a lot (though the challenges may be different 'coz this is not just any scrypt coin, and so maybe worth it).
Ok... I will offer a 500 PTS bounty for the best solution to this problem. Testz, as the maintainer, of PTS right now will be responsible for reviewing and applying it and producing a release.
In the mean time, we should have an updated checkpoint ASAP to minimize any damage from potential attacks.
Ok... I will offer a 500 PTS bounty for the best solution to this problem. Testz, as the maintainer, of PTS right now will be responsible for reviewing and applying it and producing a release.
In the mean time, we should have an updated checkpoint ASAP to minimize any damage from potential attacks.
+5%Ok... I will offer a 500 PTS bounty for the best solution to this problem. Testz, as the maintainer, of PTS right now will be responsible for reviewing and applying it and producing a release.
In the mean time, we should have an updated checkpoint ASAP to minimize any damage from potential attacks.
I offer the fix with checkpoint using kimoto gravity well implementation.. github.com/sidhujag/PTS
But testz said bounty isnt valid and to test it myself.
Are you going back on your word here or whats going on?
Ok... I will offer a 500 PTS bounty for the best solution to this problem. Testz, as the maintainer, of PTS right now will be responsible for reviewing and applying it and producing a release.
In the mean time, we should have an updated checkpoint ASAP to minimize any damage from potential attacks.
I offer the fix with checkpoint using kimoto gravity well implementation.. github.com/sidhujag/PTS
But testz said bounty isnt valid and to test it myself.
Are you going back on your word here or whats going on?
Sorry, but I don't think we will going to fork the network, I will ask bytemaster, or you can open the poll in the forum about this.
Regards,
TestZ
PS: Test net works if you want, you can check it by your self.
+5%Ok... I will offer a 500 PTS bounty for the best solution to this problem. Testz, as the maintainer, of PTS right now will be responsible for reviewing and applying it and producing a release.
In the mean time, we should have an updated checkpoint ASAP to minimize any damage from potential attacks.
I offer the fix with checkpoint using kimoto gravity well implementation.. github.com/sidhujag/PTS
But testz said bounty isnt valid and to test it myself.
Are you going back on your word here or whats going on?
Here is my answer:Sorry, but I don't think we will going to fork the network, I will ask bytemaster, or you can open the poll in the forum about this.
Regards,
TestZ
PS: Test net works if you want, you can check it by your self.
As you can see, I dont say that "bounty isnt valid".
Yes, BitShares-PTS has working testnet and you can check your Kimoto Gravity implementation.
+5%Ok... I will offer a 500 PTS bounty for the best solution to this problem. Testz, as the maintainer, of PTS right now will be responsible for reviewing and applying it and producing a release.
In the mean time, we should have an updated checkpoint ASAP to minimize any damage from potential attacks.
I offer the fix with checkpoint using kimoto gravity well implementation.. github.com/sidhujag/PTS
But testz said bounty isnt valid and to test it myself.
Are you going back on your word here or whats going on?
Here is my answer:Sorry, but I don't think we will going to fork the network, I will ask bytemaster, or you can open the poll in the forum about this.
Regards,
TestZ
PS: Test net works if you want, you can check it by your self.
As you can see, I dont say that "bounty isnt valid".
Yes, BitShares-PTS has working testnet and you can check your Kimoto Gravity implementation.
another interesting academic question... PTS is different than any other altcoin. If every miner in the world suddenly stops mining PTS, it still has value. PTS, at that point, has become just like AGS. An untradeable asset that represents a share in future I3 DACs.
If every miner in the world stops mining litecoin, it becomes worthless. PTS is different.
not sure if the time travel patch was implemented. if it wasnt, i will gladly prove you wrong by attcking the chain, simply reversing to the checkpoint block and branching off with static difficulty applied for blocks up till the very latest, then i raise the difficulty and pass the current block number at a raised diificulty, continued mining pushes me a hundred blocks ahead, then poof...your wallet is empty an i have the longest chain.
even if the fix is applied later, the sheer amount of dumping i would have done will irreversibly devalue PTS. ask TRC holders, they thought they were safe, and they were tethered to the BTC chain, yet they still got a huge kick in the ***
Ok... I will offer a 500 PTS bounty for the best solution to this problem. Testz, as the maintainer, of PTS right now will be responsible for reviewing and applying it and producing a release.
In the mean time, we should have an updated checkpoint ASAP to minimize any damage from potential attacks.
You can break up that 500 PTS and send out as transaction fees. That alone should be enough to tide over the problem; not to mention will also generate a buzz.
With only 20% left to mine, it doesn't seem worth the trouble to hard fork it. Even if you do, if you are just paying to implement KGW, then 500 PTS sounds a lot (though the challenges may be different 'coz this is not just any scrypt coin, and so maybe worth it).
there are two economic problems with fixing this with fees alone:
1) retarget occurs every ~2000 blocks, which now is ~3500PTS in mining revenue. Current hashrate is down to <50% of what it was previously. However, offering 500 PTS will only increase payouts by ~14%. Therefore, you will need a lot more than 500 PTS to entice miners back.
Is there nodes running the testnet? Ip?For Ip you can look into sources for testnet dns seeds.
Or do I have to do a test in a box approach.. creating a new testnet?
Also give me a list of good nodes on live.. preferabble dns.. Ill update the dnsseed list so client connects without add adding nodes manually. The ann thread has some nodes but they dont connect. This is unacceptable.
BitShares-PTS it's an investment cryptocurrency and peoples except speculators doesn't care about network speed. One more fork give us more problems and repute disadvantages.
BitShares-PTS it's an investment cryptocurrency and peoples except speculators doesn't care about network speed. One more fork give us more problems and repute disadvantages.
All the more reason to do something if you can. These investors on a normal network would be getting 3x the number of shares and here you are saying, "FU, not our problem. Go ahead and waste your time and energy mining for 1/3 the payout/dividends in the future, but keep mining to keep the network limping along."
Its just interim so KGW should suffice it does what we need it to do... Whats the verdict do I go test now or wait if we arent even gonna do it?
I downloaded client from the ANN thread and it doesnt sync so you may want to updte that link if said clien is old and 1.0.0 has new seeds. Even the add nodes dont work.
new KGW called DGW
coder please have a look here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.8760
chaeplin wrote
"
Yay name is "DarkGravityWave"
https://github.com/evan82/darkcoin/commit/50189ca2a010728bc559a4f46568267bf13b7ff7
"
new KGW called DGW
coder please have a look here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.8760
chaeplin wrote
"
Yay name is "DarkGravityWave"
https://github.com/evan82/darkcoin/commit/50189ca2a010728bc559a4f46568267bf13b7ff7
"
Its not tested how can you trust it?
new KGW called DGW
coder please have a look here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.8760
chaeplin wrote
"
Yay name is "DarkGravityWave"
https://github.com/evan82/darkcoin/commit/50189ca2a010728bc559a4f46568267bf13b7ff7
"
Its not tested how can you trust it?
new KGW called DGW
coder please have a look here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.8760
chaeplin wrote
"
Yay name is "DarkGravityWave"
https://github.com/evan82/darkcoin/commit/50189ca2a010728bc559a4f46568267bf13b7ff7
"
Its not tested how can you trust it?
o.k. then forget KGW or DGW
only a suggestion:
implement a short time-retarget after 16 or 32 blocks with maximum swing of +- 50 %
regarding the difficult-average of the last 128 blocks
new KGW called DGW
coder please have a look here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.8760
chaeplin wrote
"
Yay name is "DarkGravityWave"
https://github.com/evan82/darkcoin/commit/50189ca2a010728bc559a4f46568267bf13b7ff7
"
Its not tested how can you trust it?
o.k. then forget KGW or DGW
only a suggestion:
implement a short time-retarget after 16 or 32 blocks with maximum swing of +- 50 %
regarding the difficult-average of the last 128 blocks
25% swing makes for smoother transitions. but i think this is a better idea .
BitShares-PTS it's an investment cryptocurrency and peoples except speculators doesn't care about network speed. One more fork give us more problems and repute disadvantages.
All the more reason to do something if you can. These investors on a normal network would be getting 3x the number of shares and here you are saying, "FU, not our problem. Go ahead and waste your time and energy mining for 1/3 the payout/dividends in the future, but keep mining to keep the network limping along."
In our current case any solution requires hard fork. I can't consider current situation as a huge problem. The miners rewards doesn't connect to the network speed, with same diff they get same amount of PTS per day. The miners left the network because the exchange rate was drop.
Maybe I missed something important but I really doesn't see this as a problem.
Unfortunately KGW has some security disadvantages and probably in our case better to drop diff retarget from 4032 to 2016 blocks but again this requires hard fork.
Implementing KGW or changing the retarget interval will require code to be changed, and everybody to download new clients. Plus the stigma of a "hard fork".
A matching bounty on each block mined, up until the difficulty reset, would require just a bit of accounting work. (And ~3500 PTS.) The bounties could even be paid out over time, say every 100 blocks or something. Pools would have to make some changes, but they would just have to keep track of amounts credited to miners, and double them when they receive the bounty payment.
Of course, that doesn't solve the problem long-term; the next DAC snapshot announcement will undoubtedly bring in a lot of new mining power, and after the snapshot, price will drop and the miners will go away again, and the loyal miners will be stuck with the high difficulty again.
BitShares-PTS it's an investment cryptocurrency and peoples except speculators doesn't care about network speed. One more fork give us more problems and repute disadvantages.
All the more reason to do something if you can. These investors on a normal network would be getting 3x the number of shares and here you are saying, "FU, not our problem. Go ahead and waste your time and energy mining for 1/3 the payout/dividends in the future, but keep mining to keep the network limping along."
In our current case any solution requires hard fork. I can't consider current situation as a huge problem. The miners rewards doesn't connect to the network speed, with same diff they get same amount of PTS per day. The miners left the network because the exchange rate was drop.
Maybe I missed something important but I really doesn't see this as a problem.
Unfortunately KGW has some security disadvantages and probably in our case better to drop diff retarget from 4032 to 2016 blocks but again this requires hard fork.
Testz, I think you are missing something important. The time to retarget is getting longer, not shorter, therefore the the target block will never be reached. You will never have 2 million protoshares. This will make Invictus look bad. You said that a fork will have reputation disadvantages, not doing anything will be a much bigger reputation problem.
Here is a thread that has identified a means for miners to mine BTS:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3587.msg45111#msg45111
The reality is that people can mine anything and trade it for PTS. Miners should always mine what is most profitable so they can maximize their ROI.
That said it seems like we could benefit everyone by converting PTS to TaPOS and then allowing those who want to invest by mining to mine one of the other coins out there... NoirShares, DOGE, etc and then buy PTS on BTER. In fact, making such a move would increase the value of PTS in the long term by 30%.
What would everyone think about such an idea?
Here is a thread that has identified a means for miners to mine BTS:I think it's a great idea. I have sort of been doing that, mining Alts, since this whole mess started at the last diff increase. I've converted all my PTS rigs to Scrypt and pointed everything at http://ScryptGuild.com. It's a great auto-switch Scrypt pool run by Eleuthria, the OP of BTCGuild. It mines the most profitable Alts, and you get paid in BTC. Then feel free to buy PTS or whatever.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3587.msg45111#msg45111
The reality is that people can mine anything and trade it for PTS. Miners should always mine what is most profitable so they can maximize their ROI.
That said it seems like we could benefit everyone by converting PTS to TaPOS and then allowing those who want to invest by mining to mine one of the other coins out there... NoirShares, DOGE, etc and then buy PTS on BTER. In fact, making such a move would increase the value of PTS in the long term by 30%.
What would everyone think about such an idea?
Here is a thread that has identified a means for miners to mine BTS:How do you come up with a 30% increase in the long term?
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3587.msg45111#msg45111
The reality is that people can mine anything and trade it for PTS. Miners should always mine what is most profitable so they can maximize their ROI.
That said it seems like we could benefit everyone by converting PTS to TaPOS and then allowing those who want to invest by mining to mine one of the other coins out there... NoirShares, DOGE, etc and then buy PTS on BTER. In fact, making such a move would increase the value of PTS in the long term by 30%.
What would everyone think about such an idea?
Here is a thread that has identified a means for miners to mine BTS:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3587.msg45111#msg45111
The reality is that people can mine anything and trade it for PTS. Miners should always mine what is most profitable so they can maximize their ROI.
That said it seems like we could benefit everyone by converting PTS to TaPOS and then allowing those who want to invest by mining to mine one of the other coins out there... NoirShares, DOGE, etc and then buy PTS on BTER. In fact, making such a move would increase the value of PTS in the long term by 30%.
What would everyone think about such an idea?
Here is a thread that has identified a means for miners to mine BTS:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3587.msg45111#msg45111
The reality is that people can mine anything and trade it for PTS. Miners should always mine what is most profitable so they can maximize their ROI.
That said it seems like we could benefit everyone by converting PTS to TaPOS and then allowing those who want to invest by mining to mine one of the other coins out there... NoirShares, DOGE, etc and then buy PTS on BTER. In fact, making such a move would increase the value of PTS in the long term by 30%.
What would everyone think about such an idea?
Here is a thread that has identified a means for miners to mine BTS:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3587.msg45111#msg45111
The reality is that people can mine anything and trade it for PTS. Miners should always mine what is most profitable so they can maximize their ROI.
That said it seems like we could benefit everyone by converting PTS to TaPOS and then allowing those who want to invest by mining to mine one of the other coins out there... NoirShares, DOGE, etc and then buy PTS on BTER. In fact, making such a move would increase the value of PTS in the long term by 30%.
What would everyone think about such an idea?
leave NRS out of your nefarious plans Dan. >:( >:( >:(
In fact, people should mine PTS and trade for NRS, making such a move would increase the value of NRS in the long term by 30%.
Here is a thread that has identified a means for miners to mine BTS:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3587.msg45111#msg45111
The reality is that people can mine anything and trade it for PTS. Miners should always mine what is most profitable so they can maximize their ROI.
That said it seems like we could benefit everyone by converting PTS to TaPOS and then allowing those who want to invest by mining to mine one of the other coins out there... NoirShares, DOGE, etc and then buy PTS on BTER. In fact, making such a move would increase the value of PTS in the long term by 30%.
What would everyone think about such an idea?
This is what I think most people have been doing that are long Invictus plans that have wanted to continue to mine since mining dropped of a cliff.
Are you sure this won't disrupt your AGS holders feeling? Since now, 10% is split between 1.6million shares instead of 2 million therefore increasing PTS long term value.
I am ok with the idea because it benefits me as a PTS holder only.
I am still confused as to why action was not taken sooner? As if you didn't care when this was first brought up 11 days ago. I am glad you are acting now.
...
AGS holders are not diluted by this at all as the value of their 10% is independent of the 10% held by PTS holders. It will affect the PTS/AGS price ratio, but not the BTC/AGS price ratio.
On the other hand stopping inflation of PTS and making AGS liquid at the same time may add value to both parties positions and would dramatically simplify the understanding of our ecosystem. The benefits might be a win for all.
I think we may have a good plan here if we can get enough community buy-in.
...
AGS holders are not diluted by this at all as the value of their 10% is independent of the 10% held by PTS holders. It will affect the PTS/AGS price ratio, but not the BTC/AGS price ratio.
On the other hand stopping inflation of PTS and making AGS liquid at the same time may add value to both parties positions and would dramatically simplify the understanding of our ecosystem. The benefits might be a win for all.
I think we may have a good plan here if we can get enough community buy-in.
Ok, so to clarify, this proposal is to fork PTS into a TaPOS chain, with a total supply of 4 million, and genesis block consisting of a current PTS snapshot scaled up to 2 million, along with 2 million current AGS state. Is this correct?
If that's the plan, the question would be how exactly to rework the PTS side of the AGS donations. Either the daily BTC donation reward could absorb the PTS allocation, or the time frame could be extended.
Here is a thread that has identified a means for miners to mine BTS:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3587.msg45111#msg45111
The reality is that people can mine anything and trade it for PTS. Miners should always mine what is most profitable so they can maximize their ROI.
That said it seems like we could benefit everyone by converting PTS to TaPOS and then allowing those who want to invest by mining to mine one of the other coins out there... NoirShares, DOGE, etc and then buy PTS on BTER. In fact, making such a move would increase the value of PTS in the long term by 30%.
What would everyone think about such an idea?
leave NRS out of your nefarious plans Dan. >:( >:( >:(
In fact, people should mine PTS and trade for NRS, making such a move would increase the value of NRS in the long term by 30%.
Arn't your shares mined? Does it depend upon that mining being profitable? If that is the case then I see no reason why you would want to discourage people from mining your coin. I was trying to pump your coin lol... no hard feelings about NRS.
I also blame my inability to sleep since falling down the bitcoin rabbit hole. Has anyone found a solution to that "problem" yet or does it only get worse?
Here is a thread that has identified a means for miners to mine BTS:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3587.msg45111#msg45111
The reality is that people can mine anything and trade it for PTS. Miners should always mine what is most profitable so they can maximize their ROI.
That said it seems like we could benefit everyone by converting PTS to TaPOS and then allowing those who want to invest by mining to mine one of the other coins out there... NoirShares, DOGE, etc and then buy PTS on BTER. In fact, making such a move would increase the value of PTS in the long term by 30%.
What would everyone think about such an idea?
leave NRS out of your nefarious plans Dan. >:( >:( >:(
In fact, people should mine PTS and trade for NRS, making such a move would increase the value of NRS in the long term by 30%.
I think it is easy to solve this problem , just need to update the difficult change function ,Maybe it's time to do a proof of burn into a proto-asset that actually trades on the first Bitshares chain. Seems miners don't understand why they'd want to keep mining now that Bitshares has split off.
I don't think this is a good idea, I think it's good if PTS is kept "pure".
We actually don't care if there are barely any miners, we just care that they dropped so quickly that the difficulty doesn't have time to adjust and so blocks are slowed down
Here is a thread that has identified a means for miners to mine BTS:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3587.msg45111#msg45111
The reality is that people can mine anything and trade it for PTS. Miners should always mine what is most profitable so they can maximize their ROI.
That said it seems like we could benefit everyone by converting PTS to TaPOS and then allowing those who want to invest by mining to mine one of the other coins out there... NoirShares, DOGE, etc and then buy PTS on BTER. In fact, making such a move would increase the value of PTS in the long term by 30%.
What would everyone think about such an idea?
leave NRS out of your nefarious plans Dan. >:( >:( >:(
In fact, people should mine PTS and trade for NRS, making such a move would increase the value of NRS in the long term by 30%.
Barwizi,
I'm confused why you seem to want to help the BitShares community (which I appreciate a lot), but on the other hand, instead of cooperating with the community and the social consensus you released something that can only be viewed as a competitor and try to promote it here. It's beyond me why you couldn't bear to give a 20% stake to this community for their support when you seem to like this community.
The people mining Noirshares are probably mostly people who troll the altcoin announcements on bitcointalk looking for things to mine early before it hits exchanges and they sell it. These are the people you decided you prefer to give your shares away to.
Rather than have everyone interested in BitShares downloading your wallet and supporting your efforts and providing feedback, the only way for me to get into NoirShares is to take money away from what I would put into BitShares. So it is competition.
Unless I thought what you are doing is a bigger deal and more valuable to the goals of decentralization then what Invictus/Bitshares is doing, I just can't take support away from them to support you.
Maybe I have misinterpreted your goals and efforts but it feels this way to me. Again, I appreciate all your attempts to help the community and movement; your decision just confuses me and I feel like it would have been better to cooperate instead of compete.
(Apologies for adding something off subject to this important thread)
Here is a thread that has identified a means for miners to mine BTS:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3587.msg45111#msg45111
The reality is that people can mine anything and trade it for PTS. Miners should always mine what is most profitable so they can maximize their ROI.
That said it seems like we could benefit everyone by converting PTS to TaPOS and then allowing those who want to invest by mining to mine one of the other coins out there... NoirShares, DOGE, etc and then buy PTS on BTER. In fact, making such a move would increase the value of PTS in the long term by 30%.
What would everyone think about such an idea?
leave NRS out of your nefarious plans Dan. >:( >:( >:(
In fact, people should mine PTS and trade for NRS, making such a move would increase the value of NRS in the long term by 30%.
Barwizi,
I'm confused why you seem to want to help the BitShares community (which I appreciate a lot), but on the other hand, instead of cooperating with the community and the social consensus you released something that can only be viewed as a competitor and try to promote it here. It's beyond me why you couldn't bear to give a 20% stake to this community for their support when you seem to like this community.
The people mining Noirshares are probably mostly people who troll the altcoin announcements on bitcointalk looking for things to mine early before it hits exchanges and they sell it. These are the people you decided you prefer to give your shares away to.
Rather than have everyone interested in BitShares downloading your wallet and supporting your efforts and providing feedback, the only way for me to get into NoirShares is to take money away from what I would put into BitShares. So it is competition.
Unless I thought what you are doing is a bigger deal and more valuable to the goals of decentralization then what Invictus/Bitshares is doing, I just can't take support away from them to support you.
Maybe I have misinterpreted your goals and efforts but it feels this way to me. Again, I appreciate all your attempts to help the community and movement; your decision just confuses me and I feel like it would have been better to cooperate instead of compete.
(Apologies for adding something off subject to this important thread)
Here is a thread that has identified a means for miners to mine BTS:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3587.msg45111#msg45111
The reality is that people can mine anything and trade it for PTS. Miners should always mine what is most profitable so they can maximize their ROI.
That said it seems like we could benefit everyone by converting PTS to TaPOS and then allowing those who want to invest by mining to mine one of the other coins out there... NoirShares, DOGE, etc and then buy PTS on BTER. In fact, making such a move would increase the value of PTS in the long term by 30%.
What would everyone think about such an idea?
leave NRS out of your nefarious plans Dan. >:( >:( >:(
In fact, people should mine PTS and trade for NRS, making such a move would increase the value of NRS in the long term by 30%.
Barwizi,
I'm confused why you seem to want to help the BitShares community (which I appreciate a lot), but on the other hand, instead of cooperating with the community and the social consensus you released something that can only be viewed as a competitor and try to promote it here. It's beyond me why you couldn't bear to give a 20% stake to this community for their support when you seem to like this community.
The people mining Noirshares are probably mostly people who troll the altcoin announcements on bitcointalk looking for things to mine early before it hits exchanges and they sell it. These are the people you decided you prefer to give your shares away to.
Rather than have everyone interested in BitShares downloading your wallet and supporting your efforts and providing feedback, the only way for me to get into NoirShares is to take money away from what I would put into BitShares. So it is competition.
Unless I thought what you are doing is a bigger deal and more valuable to the goals of decentralization then what Invictus/Bitshares is doing, I just can't take support away from them to support you.
Maybe I have misinterpreted your goals and efforts but it feels this way to me. Again, I appreciate all your attempts to help the community and movement; your decision just confuses me and I feel like it would have been better to cooperate instead of compete.
(Apologies for adding something off subject to this important thread)
I could be totally wrong as I wasn't and am not following NRS, but I think he was trying to honor Bitshares and no one would help him with the import/snapshot. This maybe so wrong as to what happened....
I was thinking the other day, I hadn't read this before. But is it true the BTS X won't be released untill all PTS have been mined?
Blocks to retarget: 1675
Measured: 58.46%
Estimated difficulty: 0.01291682 (35.65%)
Time to retarget: 37d 23:14:47 (2014-04-26 00:14:11 UTC+9)
Is anyone working on this still?
Blocks to retarget: 1675
Measured: 58.46%
Estimated difficulty: 0.01291682 (35.65%)
Time to retarget: 37d 23:14:47 (2014-04-26 00:14:11 UTC+9)
Is anyone working on this still?
So you're saying it went down? It's all good then right?
Dan offered to pay someone to do it, that person took a look and decided it wasn't necessary. If you submit a patch I'm sure you'll get paid the same.
I just observe and report. If you guys (3I) don't want to do anything about it, then so be it. If something catastrophic happens in the near future, you can bet people will point back to this and wonder why nobody took it seriously. I could be wrong too. If at the current rate of col/min dropping off the network compared to 15 days ago we will never see the retarget happen.
I just observe and report. If you guys (3I) don't want to do anything about it, then so be it. If something catastrophic happens in the near future, you can bet people will point back to this and wonder why nobody took it seriously. I could be wrong too. If at the current rate of col/min dropping off the network compared to 15 days ago we will never see the retarget happen.
All that we can do requires hard fork, that we always can do if "catastrophic happens".
Currently network has approximately 2 blocks per hour, it's enough for normal operations and it's can be a problem only for speculators and exchange arbitrators, they should wait more.
I just observe and report. If you guys (3I) don't want to do anything about it, then so be it. If something catastrophic happens in the near future, you can bet people will point back to this and wonder why nobody took it seriously. I could be wrong too. If at the current rate of col/min dropping off the network compared to 15 days ago we will never see the retarget happen.
All that we can do requires hard fork, that we always can do if "catastrophic happens".
Currently network has approximately 2 blocks per hour, it's enough for normal operations and it's can be a problem only for speculators and exchange arbitrators, they should wait more.
A bounty per block (or per N blocks, randomly paid out) to increase the effective block reward would not require a hard fork.
I just observe and report. If you guys (3I) don't want to do anything about it, then so be it. If something catastrophic happens in the near future, you can bet people will point back to this and wonder why nobody took it seriously. I could be wrong too. If at the current rate of col/min dropping off the network compared to 15 days ago we will never see the retarget happen.
All that we can do requires hard fork, that we always can do if "catastrophic happens".
Currently network has approximately 2 blocks per hour, it's enough for normal operations and it's can be a problem only for speculators and exchange arbitrators, they should wait more.
they should wait more
we always can do if "catastrophic happens"
~18 days ago it was 42 also
15 days ago it was 42
today it is 37
So it went from ~0 days/day to ~0.3 days/day. I'm forecasting that the rate will continue to increase.
~18 days ago it was 42 also
15 days ago it was 42
today it is 37
So it went from ~0 days/day to ~0.3 days/day. I'm forecasting that the rate will continue to increase.
Your information is wrong.
It constantly swings all over the place. One moment it is 30, then 35 days and then 47 days.
Fact of the matter; the estimated difficulty is still dropping and since the snapshot the estimate hasn't been under 30 days. And that is 3 weeks ago!!!
This means the interest in the share is still getting less each day and the estimated will stay the same. It will only get shorter when only the few die hard miners are left mining this. You have no idea when this will happen. But it will take at least one more month and quite possibly 2 at least.
What you will see happen is the same as the Ron Paul Coin has had in the past. Interest is huge > everyone mines > difficulty shoots through the roof > everyone stops mining > difficulty drops to an extreme > takes a loooong time for the amount of blocks to have passed > the blocks is past > everyone drops onto the coin again and mines like crazy > rinse and repeat.
~18 days ago it was 42 also
15 days ago it was 42
today it is 37
So it went from ~0 days/day to ~0.3 days/day. I'm forecasting that the rate will continue to increase.
Your information is wrong.
It constantly swings all over the place. One moment it is 30, then 35 days and then 47 days.
Fact of the matter; the estimated difficulty is still dropping and since the snapshot the estimate hasn't been under 30 days. And that is 3 weeks ago!!!
This means the interest in the share is still getting less each day and the estimated will stay the same. It will only get shorter when only the few die hard miners are left mining this. You have no idea when this will happen. But it will take at least one more month and quite possibly 2 at least.
What you will see happen is the same as the Ron Paul Coin has had in the past. Interest is huge > everyone mines > difficulty shoots through the roof > everyone stops mining > difficulty drops to an extreme > takes a loooong time for the amount of blocks to have passed > the blocks is past > everyone drops onto the coin again and mines like crazy > rinse and repeat.
you're right on re:RPC. oscillations may become the norm for PTS since every snapshot will cause a shock to the mining market. The built in lag in retarget will cause oscillations, no way around it without hardforking.
However, the trend is currently towards increasing hashrate (and is continuing the trend toast pointed out)
Time to retarget: 27d 18:33:18 (2014-04-16 20:56:31 UTC+9)
Network hashing speed:
Last 100 blocks: 5,183,071.87 cpm ETA: 33d 16:33:40
Last 50 blocks: 6,287,297.60 cpm ETA: 27d 18:33:18
Last 15 blocks: 6,675,888.98 cpm ETA: 26d 03:45:22
Last 5 blocks: 6,937,143.86 cpm ETA: 25d 04:06:52
so over the past 100 blocks hash rate has been increasing, most likely due to discussions on new DACs and a corresponding rise in PTS value.
Can someone explain me in very simple terms what does "time to retarget 14days" mean? Is there a way someone can watch that if he is not a miner?Time to retarget is anticipated date when the difficulty of mining drops in some algorithm-defined fashion. Reducing the difficulty increases profits for miners and makes it more attractive to mine as compared to other alt-coins. You can track it here http://mrx.im/pts.php
I am very curious.. How much do you guys estimate that PTS will drop in $ terms (assuming BTC will remain at current levels $350 - $450) based on the numbers that you are watching? It appears to be on free fall...
It is very tempting to invest now and get as much shares that I can but so far my trading hasn't gone very well and I am starting to get really worried... I kept bying whenever I could. I was bying when first released at $2 - $20 and almost never sold even after the snapshot..And if I buy again now and falls to $1 I will have absolutely no way to recover from that...
I undesrtand that might be a silly question but just throw me some estimated numbers please...I can't afford to lose more.. :(
Thanks!
I am very curious.. How much do you guys estimate that PTS will drop in $ terms (assuming BTC will remain at current levels $350 - $450) based on the numbers that you are watching? It appears to be on free fall...
It is very tempting to invest now and get as much shares that I can but so far my trading hasn't gone very well and I am starting to get really worried... I kept bying whenever I could. I was bying when first released at $2 - $20 and almost never sold even after the snapshot..And if I buy again now and falls to $1 I will have absolutely no way to recover from that...
I undesrtand that might be a silly question but just throw me some estimated numbers please...I can't afford to lose more.. :(
Thanks!
When you look at PTS vs BTC you can see the price is fairly stable during the past quarter, except for all the positive excitement leading up to the snapshot February 28th. After the snapshot, much of the value was transferred as a dividend to BTS-XT and therefore has not been lost since you still own both.(https://static.squarespace.com/static/51fb043ee4b0608e46483caf/t/534a8a1de4b0e2dbda74cdce/1397393950071/?format=1500w)
The "free-fall" has been in BTC, the underlying reference for the market.
** i sold most of my altcoins and are ready to buy up all your bts ... no matter the price :-)
Estimated difficulty: 0.04039175 (375.39%)If this will happen, it will be the death of Bitshares PTS... :'(
Time to retarget: 0d 05:48:00 (2014-04-15 20:26:39 UTC+9)
QuoteEstimated difficulty: 0.04039175 (375.39%)If this will happen, it will be the death of Bitshares PTS... :'(
Time to retarget: 0d 05:48:00 (2014-04-15 20:26:39 UTC+9)
At that time ags donations will have stopped and the only possibility to participate in future dacs will be through pts ..
The difficulty has changed x4 ..
Goodbye PTS
The difficulty has changed x4 ..
Goodbye PTS
Why?
If it's that you think and want to share it with us, please explain and point us to the problem which you think we need to solve.
Yes, diff changed x4, by design BitShares-PTS has 5 min block target, I don't see any problems:
http://mrx.im/pts.php
http://ptsexplorer.cloudapp.net/chain/BitShares-PTS
The difficulty has changed x4 ..
Goodbye PTS
what thinks bytemaster about the situation and what will they do?
PS clear that out pls because phrases like "Goodbye PTS" every now and then can only panic investors out of PTS.
Why?
If it's that you think and want to share it with us, please explain and point us to the problem which you think we need to solve.
Yes, diff changed x4, by design BitShares-PTS has 5 min block target, I don't see any problems:
http://mrx.im/pts.php
http://ptsexplorer.cloudapp.net/chain/BitShares-PTS
He's just frustrated that the difficulty retargeting is so hopelessly outdated and slow, giving us 1-2 months of insane difficulty followed by 4-5 days of really low difficulty, making PTS not worth mining most of the time.
btc is no longer profitable for 95% of miners since the arrival of ASIC and soon the same problem will appear with the LTC. But if I chose PTS is because currently no asic is expected.
The functioning of PTS network is provided by the miners and the problems of btc/ltc are not identical.
Now I will do as the other miners, I will come only when the difficulty is low :(
Now I will do as the other miners, I will come only when the difficulty is low :(
You do everything right, it's a regular miner strategy to mine more profitable coins.
You will back to mine PTS when difficulty will lower or exchange rate will grow.
Difficulty history:
1. pre Feb. 16: 0.014043
2. Feb. 17 to 23: 0.017247 (7 days)
3. Feb. 23 to April 12: 0.036228 duration (51 days)
4. April 12 to 15: 0.01076 (3 days)
5. April 15: 0.041216.
According to http://mrx.im/pts.php, the difficulty will recalculated in 4000+ blocks.
When the difficulty decreased, many people came mining. Profitability was very high.
But as soon as the difficulty increased, we must mine 50 days with nearly zero returns.
We support PTS but with the actual prices of PTS we mine for no income during 50 days.
Once we have finished to wait 50 days, many miners came back and pump all blocks during a few days and want away.
I prefer a difficulty adjusted after each block, as the darkcoin, instead of the current situation.
The original retarget was supposed to be every week, such massive bumps in network hashrate defeat this purpose.
That wasn't supposed to be a problem when PTS was cpu only, which made difficult if not impossible such things.
So either a per block retarged, or per week (fixed), or less blocks retarged.
We are FAR from the 5 minutes block interval
Now you manage your network as you wish, for my part, I will pump when the difficulty is low.
Yeah, it does suck. I don't like it at all, being the miner type, but I don't see them pulling away the resources needed from other projects to fix the issue for the remaining 19%. Correct me if I'm wrong but, it's a fork, and a client update for all. Sounds like a week or more of work for a lateral movement instead of pushing forward on BTSX, Keyhotee, etc. :-\
Difficulty history:
1. pre Feb. 16: 0.014043
2. Feb. 17 to 23: 0.017247 (7 days)
3. Feb. 23 to April 12: 0.036228 duration (51 days)
4. April 12 to 15: 0.01076 (3 days)
5. April 15: 0.041216.
According to http://mrx.im/pts.php, the difficulty will recalculated in 4000+ blocks.
When the difficulty decreased, many people came mining. Profitability was very high.
But as soon as the difficulty increased, we must mine 50 days with nearly zero returns.
We support PTS but with the actual prices of PTS we mine for no income during 50 days.
Once we have finished to wait 50 days, many miners came back and pump all blocks during a few days and want away.
I prefer a difficulty adjusted after each block, as the darkcoin, instead of the current situation.
The original retarget was supposed to be every week, such massive bumps in network hashrate defeat this purpose.
That wasn't supposed to be a problem when PTS was cpu only, which made difficult if not impossible such things.
So either a per block retarged, or per week (fixed), or less blocks retarged.
We are FAR from the 5 minutes block interval
Now you manage your network as you wish, for my part, I will pump when the difficulty is low.
They don't care about it all that much.
If it's hard to mine, people will buy PTS or AGS to invest in Bitshares. Since AGS is a better ROI, people will most likely choose AGS over PTS. This is to I3's benefit. It puts the money in their control/hands. They are still offering AGS until July. This is why they don't care about PTS' network. Post July, I would bet they begin to care more.
This is the only reason I could come up with as to why they didn't and don't do anything. I guess they might just not care in general.Yeah, it does suck. I don't like it at all, being the miner type, but I don't see them pulling away the resources needed from other projects to fix the issue for the remaining 19%. Correct me if I'm wrong but, it's a fork, and a client update for all. Sounds like a week or more of work for a lateral movement instead of pushing forward on BTSX, Keyhotee, etc. :-\
They have had over 6 weeks to do something since I started this thread. ;)
I don't think it needs to be changed, of course I would like it to so I can mine more PTS in a shorter period of time, but I would rather them keep the focus and finish other projects before circling back to this. I'm a mine and hold type, not selling, having a very long term plan with these shares. I weight the difference between mining and paying electricity, or if it's too difficult, I stop and the money I would pay the electric company, I just buy PTS. It's a balance... I'm just hanging in there until PoS reigns supreme and us PoW miners are forced to retire the effort.
As an maintainer of BitShares-PTS I want to make my position clear (I says the same in this threads 1-2 month ago):
It's not question of development time, I doesn't see any reason to change anything in current network.
Network has enough nodes and stable, transaction speed is good enought.
If your argument "We need to change ... because network will die", I'm disagree, let's wait and see.
It is very simple why we don't change PTS with a hard fork:
1) Mining Rewards Dilute other PTS holders who are buy and hold... these holders are the ones we want to keep and they do not care about transaction speed.
2) POW is a dead-end system
3) Time & Effort to fix this would only delay actual product releases.
I am very surprised that the difficulty is so volatile, it proves the point that (most) miners are opportunistic profit seekers with no concern for the network. This helps make our case for DPOS.
If someone were to set up a Bitcoin mining pool that paid an extra 1 BTC per block they would quickly get near 51%.... once they get near 51% then then can produce 100% of all blocks with just a small amount of secret hash power that ignores all other mining pools work. This will force the 49% miners to join the 51% or earn nothing. Having to earn money to pay off their investment in mining hardware, you can bet they would join the 51%.
Once you have 51% you can freeze accounts and dictate transaction fees. So you raise the fees you charge which profits the miners even more and helps secure their loyalty. Sure some may object on philosophical reasons... but I doubt 51% will object on those grounds.
No because the value of pts is the social contract which is transferable on the daily snapshots. We will soon migrate pts to dpos and this problem will go away.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
Each network has its own delegates.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
No because the value of pts is the social contract which is transferable on the daily snapshots. We will soon migrate pts to dpos and this problem will go away.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
No because the value of pts is the social contract which is transferable on the daily snapshots. We will soon migrate pts to dpos and this problem will go away.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
How will this work? With 350k shares to be distributed before the 2 million mark and inflationary only period? I see it working post share exhaustion but not till then. Is the delegate to act as a faucet? What am I missing?
No because the value of pts is the social contract which is transferable on the daily snapshots. We will soon migrate pts to dpos and this problem will go away.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
How will this work? With 350k shares to be distributed before the 2 million mark and inflationary only period? I see it working post share exhaustion but not till then. Is the delegate to act as a faucet? What am I missing?
You are missing that PTS has no obligation to mine out all 2 million shares and that the final snapshot on PTS can occur at any time.
No because the value of pts is the social contract which is transferable on the daily snapshots. We will soon migrate pts to dpos and this problem will go away.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
How will this work? With 350k shares to be distributed before the 2 million mark and inflationary only period? I see it working post share exhaustion but not till then. Is the delegate to act as a faucet? What am I missing?
You are missing that PTS has no obligation to mine out all 2 million shares and that the final snapshot on PTS can occur at any time.
February, 28th spnapshot wasn't the last one ? A new snapshot will happen ? wich purpose ?
No because the value of pts is the social contract which is transferable on the daily snapshots. We will soon migrate pts to dpos and this problem will go away.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
How will this work? With 350k shares to be distributed before the 2 million mark and inflationary only period? I see it working post share exhaustion but not till then. Is the delegate to act as a faucet? What am I missing?
You are missing that PTS has no obligation to mine out all 2 million shares and that the final snapshot on PTS can occur at any time.
February, 28th spnapshot wasn't the last one ? A new snapshot will happen ? wich purpose ?
Every new DAC in the pipeline will have its own snapshot when it is ready to launch. No such dates have been announced by any developers I know of, but you can see many DACs are in various stages of development.
No because the value of pts is the social contract which is transferable on the daily snapshots. We will soon migrate pts to dpos and this problem will go away.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
How will this work? With 350k shares to be distributed before the 2 million mark and inflationary only period? I see it working post share exhaustion but not till then. Is the delegate to act as a faucet? What am I missing?
You are missing that PTS has no obligation to mine out all 2 million shares and that the final snapshot on PTS can occur at any time.
February, 28th spnapshot wasn't the last one ? A new snapshot will happen ? wich purpose ?
Every new DAC in the pipeline will have its own snapshot when it is ready to launch. No such dates have been announced by any developers I know of, but you can see many DACs are in various stages of development.
Do you have the knowledge that some announcements take place soon from some developers? Is it possible that some of them would not choose the path of snapshoting PTS and choose other ways to promote their DACs ??? Are they committed to a snapshot ?
the new protoshares DPOS client, will it be backwards compatible with proof of work, and the POS blocks will just overtake the POW blocks?
If protoshares revalues within the next month, would that put the DPOS migration on hold, or is this DPOS protoshares planned to be a test of DPOS before bitsharesX is released?
D'you mean our PTS are gonna become worthless ?
D'you mean our PTS are gonna become worthless ?
I mean they will change form and you will get something else of equal (or greater) value in exchange. More of a hard fork.
D'you mean our PTS are gonna become worthless ?
I mean they will change form and you will get something else of equal (or greater) value in exchange. More of a hard fork.
that means, after that, if someone will donate the new PTS for AGS it must be done to a new address I suppose...
That would be great to people who trusted you by holding their PTS whose value dropped :)
...and to attract miners again too!!!Probably wont happen .. mining sux! general consenus on that!
Whats the coin supply now? I am guessing around 1.8m?
what?
Whats the coin supply now? I am guessing around 1.8m?
As usual you can check total coin supply here:
http://coinmarketcap.com
Now it's 1,631,027 PTS and with current network difficulty and miners activity we will get + 36,000 PTS in 72 days if nothing changes we will have 1,667,000 PTS at the end of June.
Whats the coin supply now? I am guessing around 1.8m?
As usual you can check total coin supply here:
http://coinmarketcap.com
Now it's 1,631,027 PTS and with current network difficulty and miners activity we will get + 36,000 PTS in 72 days if nothing changes we will have 1,667,000 PTS at the end of June.
So, almost 25% increase in stake :D
He's comparing to 2m, like what we gain if we switch to DPOS
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Signing pools (delegates) earn a small fraction of the transaction fee from the block. Also, if you have enough stake, you will be proactive about protecting its value.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
It can run fine with less than 100 nodes. 100 is the upper bound for delegates.
Because each delegate has an equal vote and the top 100 are given equal weight regardless of votes delegated to them there is no ability to concentrate power by acquiring more than 1% of the vote in a single delegate.
?? Do you just mean you can choose which constant to cap it at per-DAC? The only possible point of confusion here is whether it is capped at all or not.Quote from: DPOS whitepaperBecause each delegate has an equal vote and the top 100 are given equal weight regardless of votes delegated to them there is no ability to concentrate power by acquiring more than 1% of the vote in a single delegate.
I don't think this has been answered. When is the switch to DPOS happening? Post 2million shares or before? There is over 300k shares to be mined still. If the switch to DPOS happens before the 2million and inflationary only mark, then do the 100 voted delegates get to split the remaining 300k PTS between themselves? This seems like a "rich get richer" scenario. I don't see a problem after the 2 million mark is hit, but before that 100 delegates, which one person could secretly act as multiple, will split the remaining PTS.
I don't think this has been answered. When is the switch to DPOS happening? Post 2million shares or before? There is over 300k shares to be mined still. If the switch to DPOS happens before the 2million and inflationary only mark, then do the 100 voted delegates get to split the remaining 300k PTS between themselves? This seems like a "rich get richer" scenario. I don't see a problem after the 2 million mark is hit, but before that 100 delegates, which one person could secretly act as multiple, will split the remaining PTS.
Delegates have no such advantage. There are two possibilities I can think of based on ideas I've seen on this forum:
1. The unmined shares could remain unmined. This would amount to a dividend to ALL PTS holders as their percent of the total supply would simply stop shrinking.
2. The unmined shares could be used for promotional purposes - air drops, partnerships or whatever.
Discuss?
I don't think this has been answered. When is the switch to DPOS happening? Post 2million shares or before? There is over 300k shares to be mined still. If the switch to DPOS happens before the 2million and inflationary only mark, then do the 100 voted delegates get to split the remaining 300k PTS between themselves? This seems like a "rich get richer" scenario. I don't see a problem after the 2 million mark is hit, but before that 100 delegates, which one person could secretly act as multiple, will split the remaining PTS.
Delegates have no such advantage. There are two possibilities I can think of based on ideas I've seen on this forum:
1. The unmined shares could remain unmined. This would amount to a dividend to ALL PTS holders as their percent of the total supply would simply stop shrinking.
2. The unmined shares could be used for promotional purposes - air drops, partnerships or whatever.
Discuss?
I like number 1.
Not sure how number 2 would work without actually "mining" them so to speak. It would make me feel uneasy to think ~15% of the PTS float would be "handed" out at discretion.
holy moly....sounds great!!I don't think this has been answered. When is the switch to DPOS happening? Post 2million shares or before? There is over 300k shares to be mined still. If the switch to DPOS happens before the 2million and inflationary only mark, then do the 100 voted delegates get to split the remaining 300k PTS between themselves? This seems like a "rich get richer" scenario. I don't see a problem after the 2 million mark is hit, but before that 100 delegates, which one person could secretly act as multiple, will split the remaining PTS.
Delegates have no such advantage. There are two possibilities I can think of based on ideas I've seen on this forum:
1. The unmined shares could remain unmined. This would amount to a dividend to ALL PTS holders as their percent of the total supply would simply stop shrinking.
2. The unmined shares could be used for promotional purposes - air drops, partnerships or whatever.
Discuss?
I like number 1.
Not sure how number 2 would work without actually "mining" them so to speak. It would make me feel uneasy to think ~15% of the PTS float would be "handed" out at discretion.
We have plans that wouldn't be discretionary and would drive adoption.... we will reveal our proposal for community review closer to the end date since people are worried about others copying our marketing gimics before we can.
Wow ! PTS value is falling deeper and deeper !
I don't think this has been answered. When is the switch to DPOS happening? Post 2million shares or before? There is over 300k shares to be mined still. If the switch to DPOS happens before the 2million and inflationary only mark, then do the 100 voted delegates get to split the remaining 300k PTS between themselves? This seems like a "rich get richer" scenario. I don't see a problem after the 2 million mark is hit, but before that 100 delegates, which one person could secretly act as multiple, will split the remaining PTS.
Delegates have no such advantage. There are two possibilities I can think of based on ideas I've seen on this forum:
1. The unmined shares could remain unmined. This would amount to a dividend to ALL PTS holders as their percent of the total supply would simply stop shrinking.
2. The unmined shares could be used for promotional purposes - air drops, partnerships or whatever.
Discuss?
The unmined shares dividend to all PTS&AGS maybe better
+1 hard fork to stop producing blocks at 2m shares. Fix difficulty while we're at it.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
+1 hard fork to stop producing blocks at 2m shares. Fix difficulty while we're at it.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
I don't know that we need to actually keep mining until 2m, as long as the final distribution is completely scaled from the total mined at the snapshot with no post-mine component. I'm just afraid a post-mine for airdrops or promotions as Stan mentioned could undermine trust.
Hard to send PTS and get confirmations on time if everyone stops mining PTS altogether.
So +5% and a bit more to help fix the difficulty re-target in case of the opportunistic mining stampedes. Even if the plan is to switch to DPOS the transition period needs to work as well.
Hard to send PTS and get confirmations on time if everyone stops mining PTS altogether.
So +5% and a bit more to help fix the difficulty re-target in case of the opportunistic mining stampedes. Even if the plan is to switch to DPOS the transition period needs to work as well.
Fixing this is not their priority. They don't care if people don't mine their coin. Which is very odd to me, especially since PTS is an investment vehicle for BTS.
Hard to send PTS and get confirmations on time if everyone stops mining PTS altogether.
So +5% and a bit more to help fix the difficulty re-target in case of the opportunistic mining stampedes. Even if the plan is to switch to DPOS the transition period needs to work as well.
Fixing this is not their priority. They don't care if people don't mine their coin. Which is very odd to me, especially since PTS is an investment vehicle for BTS.
I don't think They consider it a coin at all. So They are much less concerned with transaction times than someone promoting a coin would be. I agree that it does not seem to be a priority. Up until this becomes a security concern, I tend to agree with them. I'm not mining PTS though. I mine at scryptguild.com or manicminer.in and then exchange for PTS or whatever else I might want.
...
This all gets fixed with a single upgrade to PTS 2.0 after DPOS is proven via Bitshares X.
We don't want to perturb the PTS chain more than once.
...
This all gets fixed with a single upgrade to PTS 2.0 after DPOS is proven via Bitshares X.
We don't want to perturb the PTS chain more than once.
Agreed. The switch to DPOS will require a total disruption anyway, so might as well wait until that instead of disrupting it twice and wasting the extra development time on an intermediate step. Also, no one should be using PTS for point of sale transactions, so the block times aren't really a big deal. If people are in a hurry to grab some stake, they can use BTC to AGS anyway, and that way the resources actually go to development.
A year from now you may wish you had started today.
-Karen Lamb
On a long enough timeline, the development rate for bitshares drops to zero.
-Chuck Palahniuk
PTS is dead, impossible to sell at decent price price. Exchange are almost empty.... NRS killed PTS ?To the best of my knowledge my PTS still entitles me to my portion of 10% of any Invictus DAC and any other DAC that follows the Invictus social convention. So how is it "dead"? Seems to be serving the primary purpose it was created for.
PTS is dead, impossible to sell at decent price price. Exchange are almost empty.... NRS killed PTS ?
I think most of us who are holding PTS do not really care how fast it takes to confirm. That's because we are not selling it, only holding for the DAC "dividends". I'd rather that strong hands hold PTS, even if it takes awhile to confirm.
100% agree with u.I think most of us who are holding PTS do not really care how fast it takes to confirm. That's because we are not selling it, only holding for the DAC "dividends". I'd rather that strong hands hold PTS, even if it takes awhile to confirm.
since BTS wallet still not out. im kind worried how long to develop a DAC? years? mayby? loz of investors have lost confident in pts since the bts wallet sould be out around March and now two months later, we still don't know when the wallet comes out. maybe another couple of months? that is the issue.
promising future are based on facts not promises.
Why would X tests affect PTS price? Snapshot has been taken already.
Why would X tests affect PTS price? Snapshot has been taken already.
Delivery of one product gives confidence in the value of future products.
Why would X tests affect PTS price? Snapshot has been taken already.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Why would X tests affect PTS price? Snapshot has been taken already.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
DPOS is supposed to be the sea at which the entire DAC fleet sails on. With BTS-X as the flagship, I'd say it has a whole lot to do with PTS. Perhaps this is why there is such a caviler attitude toward PTS amongst Bitshares insiders, they assume PTS has nothing to do with BTS post snapshot. If BTS-X sinks like the Titanic, you can very well expect PTS to follow it.
Toast, can you give any insight on the status of the testing in layman terms? Particularly how the exchange is going? Is collateral working etc...?
Why would X tests affect PTS price? Snapshot has been taken already.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
DPOS is supposed to be the sea at which the entire DAC fleet sails on. With BTS-X as the flagship, I'd say it has a whole lot to do with PTS. Perhaps this is why there is such a caviler attitude toward PTS amongst Bitshares insiders, they assume PTS has nothing to do with BTS post snapshot. If BTS-X sinks like the Titanic, you can very well expect PTS to follow it.
Toast, can you give any insight on the status of the testing in layman terms? Particularly how the exchange is going? Is collateral working etc...?
No work on the exchange has taken place since DPOS since we want to have a solid foundation... I will provide more updates with respect to the exchange in a week or so. Our primary focus is a solid chain foundation with DPOS. So far we are relying on trustee model because the ability to handle natural chain forks automatically is challenging to say the least. We are making the wallet/RPC api as close to compatible with bitcoin as possible which should make the DPOS update to PTS as easy as possible for the exchanges.
What happens for pts miners with their unconfirmed pts? since the difficulty changes at November. I think loz of ppl will have hundreds unconfirmed pts in their account. which means, if there are two DAC is releasing, ppl lose a lot of invest?
any updates on BTS-X? sucks to sit here watching the value of my PTS fall further with every passing week. Be nice to know there is some sort of light at the end of the tunnel.
any updates on BTS-X? sucks to sit here watching the value of my PTS fall further with every passing week. Be nice to know there is some sort of light at the end of the tunnel.
any updates on BTS-X? sucks to sit here watching the value of my PTS fall further with every passing week. Be nice to know there is some sort of light at the end of the tunnel.Light at the End of the Tunnel(http://moblog.net/media/g/o/o/goode/light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel.jpg)The next few weeks will be full of jaw-dropping news.
So if I sent a few hundred PTS to an exchange to sell....and now they're stuck because the transaction has zero confirmations....I can't sell the PTS and I can't send the PTS back to my wallet to get a share in future DACs...this is pretty fucked...I come to the Bitshares message board almost every day and so no announcement about this....now it's going to cost me big time.
I donated several PTS yesterday noon to get ags. Now almost 24 hours passed, the transaction is still not confirmed. Sigh :-(
Is there a PTS block explorer aside coinplorer?
Can someone calculate
* price PTS has to hit to make mining profitable at this difficulty
* average inter-block time
* marginal cost of running miners at a loss to bring inter-block time to under 3 hours
Can someone calculate
* price PTS has to hit to make mining profitable at this difficulty
* average inter-block time
* marginal cost of running miners at a loss to bring inter-block time to under 3 hours
Calculating this also requires an agreed upon electricity cost/watt and what is considered the average way of mining (cpu / gpu for example).
I can give some of my numbers, but I don't know the exact number of PTS I'm receiving or at what intervals. By coincidence I had a couple of R9 280X gpus that are meant for other projects and it also just so happens that NaN released mining software that favors those exact cards, so I don't know if it would be fair to call that standard for all miners. I also had to improvise on the spot, so I do not have an optimal solution when it comes to cooling, powerdraw, crappy internet connection and no optimal clocks.
At the moment (just logged in to take a look, haven't been monitoring over a longer period of time) I have a total of seven 280X cards running a combined total of around 36440 collisions/minute with a total powerdraw of roughly 1700 Watts. If we use the one gpu per miner metric then this averages out to a little over 5200 c/m at 243 Watts.
I'll have to leave it to others to work out how much PTS per watt/hour that equates to with the current state of the network. I just figured I'd pitch in while I could, when I saw the miners exodus and NaN anouncing the release of his newest mining software.
What's the cpm for a 4gb cloud miner? Trying to calculate whether it's feasible to subsidize miners to get to the next reset
Dual Xeon E5-2697v2 512Gb RAM, OCed to 3.4 GHz, RAM at 1940. approx. 1200 CPMA quick check of the specs on that cpu would make that a dual 12 core so that would average around 50 cpm / core when overclocked from 2.7 GHz on most likely bare metal. I'm not an overclocker, so I have no clue how performance scales compared to percentages of overclock. Worst case scenario that would mean a 26% loss in performance on standard clocks and another couple of percent for running in a virtual machine on a VPS. So at 30% that would come in at around 35 cpm for each core. Now you need to find the price per core for your local VPS to see what that would cost per month.
Trying to calculate whether it's feasible to subsidize miners to get to the next reset
Trying to calculate whether it's feasible to subsidize miners to get to the next reset
That would be pointless. After the next reset, difficulty will be so low that it'll only take a couple of hours to reach the reset after that, and then difficulty will be really high. Much higher than it is now.
Trying to calculate whether it's feasible to subsidize miners to get to the next reset
That would be pointless. After the next reset, difficulty will be so low that it'll only take a couple of hours to reach the reset after that, and then difficulty will be really high. Much higher than it is now.
how long until next retarget?
Plenty of time left .. pretty sure that retarget will not happen :-)how long until next retarget?
You can check here:
http://mrx.im/pts.php
Time to retarget: 139d 09:44:40 (2014-10-14 08:23:49 UTC+9)
And PTS value is falling down deeper and deeper. No BTS in sight.... Should have bought them before February 28th....The reason for that is that the bitcoin is gaining value .. if you had 1000$ of PTS .. you still have 1000$ in PTS! No worry
And PTS value is falling down deeper and deeper. No BTS in sight.... Should have bought them before February 28th....The reason for that is that the bitcoin is gaining value .. if you had 1000$ of PTS .. you still have 1000$ in PTS! No worry
And PTS value is falling down deeper and deeper. No BTS in sight.... Should have bought them before February 28th....The reason for that is that the bitcoin is gaining value .. if you had 1000$ of PTS .. you still have 1000$ in PTS! No worry
Well not really...if nothing happens soon, there are not even buyers left on Cryptsy. PTS at 0.006?
I'm a Keyhotee founder, one of the first miners at the launch back in november and after reading about all those great projects I invested a lot of money PTS. But nearly all projects have an incredible delay by now...
I mean...with all the donations received in BTC, what about acquiring some PTS yourself (therefore put trust in your own future) with BTC to avoid 1$ PTS? WIth that amount of donations I really don't see why you don't spend some on marketing and publicity...
I must say I'm even not up-to-date with this forum anymore...so maybe I missed something.
But after 6 months I'm really starting to loose some faith...maybe because I'm holding something like 25% of the value I invested at the beginning. So maybe "there is light at the end of the tunnel", with an image of light at the end of a tunnel, is not enough...
And I just checked Cryptsy...I could bring PTS price to the very bottom myself :( .
That's bad.
we'll be exited when BTS and lottoshare at least will be there. At the moment, it's wasteland...Conclusion/Hint: Good buy opportunity ?!
Indeed, I bought some yesterday :)we'll be exited when BTS and lottoshare at least will be there. At the moment, it's wasteland...Conclusion/Hint: Good buy opportunity ?!
But the difficulty was not to get off?
Current difficulty: 0.046980
Difficulty in July ： 0.041221
Mining is much harder than before and each pts electricity cost is around 4usd in USA.
But the difficulty was not to get off?
Current difficulty: 0.046980
Difficulty in July ： 0.041221
Mining is much harder than before and each pts electricity cost is around 4usd in USA.
Ma la difficoltà non doveva scendere?
Current difficulty: 0.046980
Difficulty in July ： 0.041221
Mining is much harder than before and each pts electricity cost is around 4usd in USA.
Ok... That's right!
But the difficulty was not to get off?
Ma la difficoltà non doveva scendere?
It's get off and back:
Block/Diff/Date
40320 0,01499792 08.01.2014
44352 0,01374487 23.01.2014
48384 0,01404314 05.02.2014
52416 0,01724706 17.02.2014
56448 0,03622848 23.02.2014
60480 0,01075983 12.04.2014
64512 0,04121569 15.04.2014
68544 0,01030392 18.08.2014
72576 0,04697974 21.08.2014
It's get off and back:
Block/Diff/Date
40320 0,01499792 08.01.2014
44352 0,01374487 23.01.2014
48384 0,01404314 05.02.2014
52416 0,01724706 17.02.2014
56448 0,03622848 23.02.2014
60480 0,01075983 12.04.2014
64512 0,04121569 15.04.2014
68544 0,01030392 18.08.2014
72576 0,04697974 21.08.2014
It's get off and back:
Block/Diff/Date
40320 0,01499792 08.01.2014
44352 0,01374487 23.01.2014
48384 0,01404314 05.02.2014
52416 0,01724706 17.02.2014
56448 0,03622848 23.02.2014
60480 0,01075983 12.04.2014
64512 0,04121569 15.04.2014
68544 0,01030392 18.08.2014
72576 0,04697974 21.08.2014
I haven't followed pts diff closely but I thought since May the next retarget (from 0.04 to 0.01) time has been projected to be in September-October all the time. Did I missed a low diff run in August? If yes what caused the retarget date to move forward that much? Some big miner stepped in?
It's get off and back:
Block/Diff/Date
40320 0,01499792 08.01.2014
44352 0,01374487 23.01.2014
48384 0,01404314 05.02.2014
52416 0,01724706 17.02.2014
56448 0,03622848 23.02.2014
60480 0,01075983 12.04.2014
64512 0,04121569 15.04.2014
68544 0,01030392 18.08.2014
72576 0,04697974 21.08.2014
I haven't followed pts diff closely but I thought since May the next retarget (from 0.04 to 0.01) time has been projected to be in September-October all the time. Did I missed a low diff run in August? If yes what caused the retarget date to move forward that much? Some big miner stepped in?
On 21 August was BitShares DNS/Vote snapshot, exchange rate goes up, miners come back to mine PTS.
It's get off and back:
Block/Diff/Date
40320 0,01499792 08.01.2014
44352 0,01374487 23.01.2014
48384 0,01404314 05.02.2014
52416 0,01724706 17.02.2014
56448 0,03622848 23.02.2014
60480 0,01075983 12.04.2014
64512 0,04121569 15.04.2014
68544 0,01030392 18.08.2014
72576 0,04697974 21.08.2014
I haven't followed pts diff closely but I thought since May the next retarget (from 0.04 to 0.01) time has been projected to be in September-October all the time. Did I missed a low diff run in August? If yes what caused the retarget date to move forward that much? Some big miner stepped in?
On 21 August was BitShares DNS/Vote snapshot, exchange rate goes up, miners come back to mine PTS.
when will be next difficulty adjustament?
thanks!
It's get off and back:
Block/Diff/Date
40320 0,01499792 08.01.2014
44352 0,01374487 23.01.2014
48384 0,01404314 05.02.2014
52416 0,01724706 17.02.2014
56448 0,03622848 23.02.2014
60480 0,01075983 12.04.2014
64512 0,04121569 15.04.2014
68544 0,01030392 18.08.2014
72576 0,04697974 21.08.2014
I haven't followed pts diff closely but I thought since May the next retarget (from 0.04 to 0.01) time has been projected to be in September-October all the time. Did I missed a low diff run in August? If yes what caused the retarget date to move forward that much? Some big miner stepped in?
On 21 August was BitShares DNS/Vote snapshot, exchange rate goes up, miners come back to mine PTS.
when will be next difficulty adjustament?
thanks!
At block 76608 (http://ptsexplorer.cloudapp.net/) approximately, if nothing will change (like new snapshot), next difficulty adjustments will happened at beginning of October and looks like it's will drop from 0.046 to ~0.03
hum!!!
i can't find any ETA there: http://ptsexplorer.cloudapp.net/
where do you read " beginning of October and looks like it's will drop from 0.046 to ~0.03"
thanks!
hum!!!
i can't find any ETA there: http://ptsexplorer.cloudapp.net/
where do you read " beginning of October and looks like it's will drop from 0.046 to ~0.03"
thanks!
Calculate based on:
72576 21.08.2014
74592 12.09.2014
76608 ~04.10.2014
Sure it's a very raw estimation.
http://ptsexplorer.cloudapp.net you can see a current block and how many blocks per hour was generated.
Get ETA here http://mrx.im/pts.php
And we are back to the impossible high Current difficulty: 0.0700399
Hi, i'm a noob with all of this, i mined some PTS a week ago, and seems like mrx.im/pts.php is down, i would like to know how to calculate next difficulty retarget and if it's too hard to explained, when it will be ?
Thanks
And by the way, I hold some PTS right now, should I sell them now or the price will stabilize around 0.1 BTC ?