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Messages - gamey

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286
General Discussion / Re: Bittorrent Maelstrom browser beta
« on: April 19, 2015, 02:00:48 pm »

Can someone verify if this is a browser meant for a proprietary distributed web and not for actual web browsing?

I visit their webpage and they just have a lot of vague descriptions.

287
General Discussion / Re: Gavin's thoughts on mining
« on: April 19, 2015, 01:56:30 pm »
The problem is those people treat Satoshi as a god when they should be adjusting his poorly conceived inflation schedule with a hardfork.

Bitcoiners are stupid but they're not that stupid.

I don't follow?  I don't think it is very easy to hardfork bitcoin, but do you think adjusting the inflation downwards would be that damaging?  It would put off the miners but the reduction in downward price pressure could easily make up for it.  Smooth out the blockreward differences...

288
General Discussion / Re: Friday's Mumble with BM for a tip?
« on: April 19, 2015, 01:52:14 pm »
Have you thought of using advertisers and sponsors as a way to generate income?  You could have dedicated 15-30 second blocks where you read an ad.  I'm sure several companies would find value in doing this. You also could add a subscription model where people pay to get add free recordings. You also could allow subscribers to be guaranteed answers to questions by giving them some sort of token or uia that they can spend for airtime with bm or whoever is being interviewed.  Just a rough idea of ways to possibly monetize beyond bitcoin.

I remember Arthur who started out the project with Fuz came around trying to get people to buy ads on his show and it gets far far more viewers via placement on the LTB portal. It didn't seem like he was having a lot of luck with an ad based approach. A lot of this stuff requires more development time than it is worth.

The idea of having people pay to guarantee their question being asked is interesting.  Not sure how that'd play out.

289
General Discussion / Re: Friday's Mumble with BM for a tip?
« on: April 19, 2015, 01:45:12 pm »
Either you want input or you don't; not everything should be considered a complaint.

Again, there are different audiences. Some prefer prompt raw full audio and good data; some don't mind a presentation of the facts; some don't mind PR; and some will believe anything they hear.

Yea my attitude has been showing a lot lately but everyone knows that promptness is desired. I was just giving insight to the considerations aj/fuzzy have to deal with as I used to do what AJ is doing.  People can wait, but then some people may have more time on Saturday etc.  There are different audiences and one can seemingly never make everyone happy.  IMO it really is a discussion about promptness and not whether one has to listen to an edited version or not.

Everyone has the option to record it if they wish. People do this.  Logon mumble and hit record then listen to it later.

I like the idea of the .99 cost to get an unedited recording, just because bitshares is woefully lacking in applications of commerce.

290
General Discussion / Re: Friday's Mumble with BM for a tip?
« on: April 19, 2015, 01:12:32 pm »
Maybe Aj should put all the cut out stuff on a seperate track.
So you can play the edited version first and later listen to the clicks and pops.
Problem solved.

lololol

291
General Discussion / Re: Gavin's thoughts on mining
« on: April 19, 2015, 01:05:41 pm »
The problem is those people treat Satoshi as a god when they should be adjusting his poorly conceived inflation schedule with a hardfork.

292
General Discussion / Re: Friday's Mumble with BM for a tip?
« on: April 19, 2015, 01:00:21 pm »
I personally have never heard anyone express any concerns about authenticity.

It's one factor among others. Media and PR etc isn't trusted widely anyhow but especially in the blockchain world there are too many people talking up their own interests;  even devs and early developers, play to their own interest and become unrealistic in their expectations. Someone stumbling over raw 'data' as it were, might consider that more valuable, than another polished presentation of a hope and a dream.

It all depends how it's done but seeing a certain level of commitment coupled with a consistency over time, give investors confidence. Perpetually changing the sources of information, can be frustrating. I don't want to listen to all the mumbles but on occasion might look to catch up on them by random sampling and I don't find skipping over topics that aren't relevant at all difficult.

No one implied it is "difficult" - just time consuming and annoying. It isn't skipping over topics as much as skipping over technical glitches. The horrible pops on poorly adjusted mics... mismatched volumes etc.  Someone might find that data more valuable but I'm skeptical to say the least.

If you've listened to much radio in your life you'd get a feel for how much radio guys hate dead air time. I suppose listening to a audio stream on your computer is different in some ways, but the general concern is that you lose your audience because they'll change stations.

I agree about the level of commitment for investors etc, but that is what editing and putting out a polished product shows.

If I were you guys I'd complain more about not having the edited versions pushed out into other venues.

293
General Discussion / Re: Friday's Mumble with BM for a tip?
« on: April 19, 2015, 11:02:10 am »
Keep it simple; Content is more important than Presentation; and making it useful, is about making it available.

Putting it out unedited, gives an audience more confidence what they have is authentic. Tarting it up, does not add value, except on occasions where there is very high information density. Putting the raw feed out promptly also aids communication.. we can skip over the bits we don't want. It's not as if the host doesn't have a grip - fuzzy does it well enough the raw is good. If you want edited content then that could be fed into BitShares.tv as highlights or some other presented content. An edited mumble is just more work for little added benefit.

The alternate would be to focus mumble sessions on a core topic, edit those carefully and use that as a marketing aid to describe in detail certain aspects to targeted other audiences than just those here.. pass those to MSM and let them feast on it.

I personally have never heard anyone express any concerns about authenticity.

You are right about editting have questionable value but you are seeing it from the view of someone heavily into Bitshares.  Those who just come across  the recordings will definitely be put off by long technical glitches etc. I haven't listened to an unedited  recording in a long time, but you'll be hard pressed to find a podcast elsewhere that is raw like you believe is desirable. 

Skipping forward isn't so simple when you don't know how far to skip ahead. THe process is more like skip forward, then backwards a bit, then forwards a bit.... perhaps then backwards a few seconds. etc

I always hoped the edited versions would be put on youtube.

Mainly people just don't want to wait and thats understandable.  Perhaps it would be better to not edit them. I do not know. I just know it has little to do with economics or trying to monetize a public good.

294
General Discussion / Re: Friday's Mumble with BM for a tip?
« on: April 19, 2015, 09:18:44 am »
fuzzy, are you trying out some economic experiment with Mumble?

This is what it looks like to me. You are running a free public concert out on the street where anyone can join and listen and even has permission to record it with their cameras. And then you try to somehow align incentives so that all the people (and it really could be any stranger) recording the live concert in public are somehow economically motivated to not give out the recording to someone else unless the person requesting the recording happens to possess a special sticker that you sell.

It's an interesting experiment I guess, but I think the end result will be that the economic motivation won't work out and someone (even if it is just one person) who recorded the live event will just stick it up online thereby making the stickers worthless.

Edit: My view is that if this raw recording is a public good (which it is) that we as a community value, then the community should fund that public good the same way we fund other BitShares-related public goods: delegate pay. Obviously any extra funds you can receive from ads in the final edited shows or just from donations would be useful in offsetting the delegate funds necessary. However, if this is truly something we value as a community, it should be possible to fund it entirely from delegate pay without relying on altruism or the effectiveness of advertisements (which can be bypassed).

It takes time to edit it so the audio doesn't have multi-mins of awkwardness.  When you put out the raw  one upfront lots view it and you have no way to track how many people actually view the session overall.  Not only that, it is personally demotivating when you put effort into trying to make it sound like a real show and 1/2 the people (diehards) listen to it raw. However people who are new to the  community might not want to listen to a pure hangout and might tune out when someone spends 5 mins trying to get their mic working. (for example)

AFAIK everyone has always been allowed to record it and do what they wish. 

In the end, it is just like you said at first.  If you want to get your own stickers, then figure out a way to attend and record it then post it for stickers!

It has nothing to do with economics unless Fuzzy has decided to issue a token and enforce it.  Sometimes it is smaller day to day things and not something economic or market based.

Granted I do understand your frustration.

295
If we are a company, we should really start acting like one. Paying employees who are working for another company is not a practice done by any Fortune 500 companies.

Look at the situation from the standpoint of new investors. It is probably not such a good thing for them to think we have full time developers being paid by the blockchain but then find out that that is not the case.

#1 Fortune 500 companies hire contractors all the time who may be working on other things.
#2 Fortune 500 companies also have PR and we saw how that went !  We did go up from like 21 to 27 million.. briefly.
#3 Toast is not keeping the pittance but redirecting it to help BTS.
#4 No new investors would even be aware of this if Ken Code wasn't making an issue out of something where there shouldn't be one.
#5 When people get desperate and try to find problems where they don't get exist... well.. not sure how to put it, except BTS seems to be going backwards.

Honestly, I don't care anymore but it just seems very short sighted.  You guys need whatever incentives you can to bring in developers.  I'd like to see a breakdown of code written by volunteers across blockchain 2.0 projects. BM once stated he is against altruism in general... lol.. I didn't know where to start on that, so I ignored it. So if developer money runs out ... well we'll see what happens.

From everything i saw, Toast was the biggest force behind trying to make Bitshares more like it should be... and you guys are worried about him giving 1k a month to other developers.  SMH



296

This new round of community is going to really turn BTS around.

Toast was the best asset BitShares had and I'd assume he still looks out for it.  A couple of 100% delegates will not make any noticeable difference financially, but if those funds were properly directed by Toast then perhaps the funds would have made a noticeable positive difference.

Given that Toast was the best asset of BitShares that is public facing, being all quick to remove all his remaining interest in the project is probably not in the interest of BitShares.  lol.
+5% +5%
Plus as far as I know this funds are redirected to other severely underpaid core developers...

I can see a ton of other delegates that I will vote out before toast's, but hey if you disagree it is you vote....break your head and this project.
And good luck!

Toast said himself that he was surprised he hasn't been down voted.  He even said he would turn off the delegate and miss blocks to expedite the process of being voted out.  He hasn't made any mention that his delegate funds were being redirected.

I recall he did make mention of it somewhere. Now whether he'd been on top of divvying up the funds , I can not say. Regardless, I would be a bit surprised if he kept all the BTS. It would make him look bad, and it just isn't that much $$. He is probably a bit ambivalent about it and is just like whatever you guys want......

People here seem to have a hard time judging the scale of the problems that exist and what the actual problems are these days.

edit - After seeing Toast's last post, I am not very far off.

297

This new round of community is going to really turn BTS around.

Toast was the best asset BitShares had and I'd assume he still looks out for it.  A couple of 100% delegates will not make any noticeable difference financially, but if those funds were properly directed by Toast then perhaps the funds would have made a noticeable positive difference.

Given that Toast was the best asset of BitShares that is public facing, being all quick to remove all his remaining interest in the project is probably not in the interest of BitShares.  lol.

298
General Discussion / Re: Coinless blockchains, brilliant or evil?
« on: April 15, 2015, 08:55:11 pm »
It is a quasi-solution to a different set of problems. A blockchain could help prove nothing changed.  It will just require a higher level of trust of a central authority. 

I am not sure where thsee things will be used.

299
General Discussion / Re: Coinless blockchains, brilliant or evil?
« on: April 15, 2015, 04:09:27 pm »

On some levels it is going the same direction as BitShares.  That is the managed miners direction instead of the weird Bitcoin system where no one particularly wins.  Miners lose/break even on $$.  Value holders get hit from the inflation and in the end the blockchain isn't that secure from an attack.  (Go find the mining pool ops and it could break, at least temporarily.)

I am curious how a centralized entity can actually seriously secure a blockchain.  Do they have x computers doing POW?  So they just need x *2 servers in standby somewhere.

300
I think it would be cool to use crypto-style ledgers as the guts of a machine learning application. 
Multiple instances of an algorithm could share and update a database tracking it's success at a task.
 If the task was simple analysis or prediction, the program could automatically mutate and run the code looking for better solutions evolution-style.

The crypto ledger(or matrix) would form a sort of distributed memory database in which each instance and/or mutation would have it's own address to store it's feedback information. 

The database could be host to a whole ecosystem of programs built on top of it.  Programs that analyze the data, programs that spawn new mutations of itself, programs that interface with human beings, etc.

The program could even hire coders by putting on coding competitions where people submit code, the machine tries it out, and then releases tokens to whoever's code works the best. 

The program could then stack itself fractal-style, using smaller and smaller agents to process information on multiple levels.

I think a substantial analytic intelligence could be built in such a way, even though their 'mortality' rate might be high.

Thoughts?

This is pretty much what neureal.net aims to do but there are many steps in the product.

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