BitShares Forum
Other => Random Discussion => Topic started by: kenCode on June 24, 2015, 02:06:44 pm
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I've heard Bitcoin is legal here in Germany, but how do I prove it?
How do I show a Client where it was declared a currency, or a private asset or whatever?
I just need a URL and Statute number that I can source right to the page that declares "Bitcoin" or Kryptowährungen...
Please and thanx :)
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http://www.coindesk.com/germany-official-recognises-bitcoin-as-private-money/
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/9922/regulation-bitcoins-germany-first-comprehensive-statement-bitcoins-german-federal-financial-supervisory-authority-bafin/
BaFin enhances legal certainty regarding Bitcoins
In this expert article BaFin explicitly points out – as already stated by the German Ministry of Finance – that Bitcoins are so called units of account (Rechnungseinheiten) and thus financial instruments in the meaning of the German Banking Act (Kreditwesengesetz).
http://www.osborneclarke.com/connected-insights/publications/geld-oder-nicht-geld-das-ist-hier-die-frage/?lang=de
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Good stuff, thanx Empirical.
The only article I was able to find was on CNBC, but they didn't bother to link to the legal document either.
The link you posted at least sent me to this much:
...the purchase and sale of bitcoin is a private sale transaction under Section 23 paragraph 1 sentence 2 of the Income Tax Act, which (according to section 2, paragraph 1, sentence 1, No. 7 Income Tax Act) is classed as income tax. The legal requirement is to collect on these transactions only if the period "between buying and selling is no longer than one year."
"As long as someone can prove they have held a certain balance for at least a year, subsequent purchases and withdrawals of the digital currency will be tax-free, as long as they don't exceed the balance of a year ago."
http://www.coindesk.com/german-government-relieves-capital-gains-tax-on-bitcoin-positions/
http://www.coindesk.com/german-government-relieves-capital-gains-tax-on-bitcoin-positions/#comment-944789738
There's this article too, but still no link to the actual government docs where cryptocurrencies (or just Bitcoin) are documented:
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/5947/bafin-on-bitcoins-a-blueprint-for-europe-2/
I wish they would have linked to the government website where this stuff is stated though so I can refer to it by number...
Maybe they're hiding it?
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http://www.coindesk.com/germany-official-recognises-bitcoin-as-private-money/
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/9922/regulation-bitcoins-germany-first-comprehensive-statement-bitcoins-german-federal-financial-supervisory-authority-bafin/
BaFin enhances legal certainty regarding Bitcoins
In this expert article BaFin explicitly points out – as already stated by the German Ministry of Finance – that Bitcoins are so called units of account (Rechnungseinheiten) and thus financial instruments in the meaning of the German Banking Act (Kreditwesengesetz).
http://www.osborneclarke.com/connected-insights/publications/geld-oder-nicht-geld-das-ist-hier-die-frage/?lang=de
Thanx again Empirical :)
That last article just says you need a license and the first article read said you only needed a license and 750K if you wanted to open a bitcoin company in germany. Crazy. None of them will link to the government website where this stuff is dictated though...
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http://www.coindesk.com/germany-official-recognises-bitcoin-as-private-money/
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/9922/regulation-bitcoins-germany-first-comprehensive-statement-bitcoins-german-federal-financial-supervisory-authority-bafin/
BaFin enhances legal certainty regarding Bitcoins
In this expert article BaFin explicitly points out – as already stated by the German Ministry of Finance – that Bitcoins are so called units of account (Rechnungseinheiten) and thus financial instruments in the meaning of the German Banking Act (Kreditwesengesetz).
http://www.osborneclarke.com/connected-insights/publications/geld-oder-nicht-geld-das-ist-hier-die-frage/?lang=de
Thanx again Empirical :)
That last article just says you need a license and the first article read said you only needed a license and 750K if you wanted to open a bitcoin company in germany. Crazy. None of them will link to the government website where this stuff is dictated though...
I would say BaFin is the government website. They are the Federal Financial Supervisory Authority for germany.
http://www.bafin.de/SharedDocs/Veroeffentlichungen/EN/Fachartikel/2014/fa_bj_1401_bitcoins_en.html
BaFin has qualified BTC with legally binding effect as financial instruments in the form of units of account pursuant to section 1 (11) sentence 1 of the German Banking Act
The mere use of BTC as a substitute currency for cash or scriptural money in currencies of legal tender to participate in the economy through exchange transactions is not an activity subject to authorisation. The provider may have his services paid with BTC without thereby providing banking transactions or financial services. The same holds true for the customer. Likewise, mining BTC per se does not constitute a transaction subject to authorisation since the miner does not issue or place the BTC himself. Neither is the sale of mined or acquired BTC or their purchase generally subject to authorisation.
However, an authorisation requirement may arise from additional circumstances. This applies where it is not only the case that BTC are mined, purchased or sold to participate in an existing market but in addition a special contribution is paid to create or preserve such market. This then qualifies as proprietary trading subject to authorisation pursuant to section 1 (1a) no. 4 of the KWG because of the additional service providing element. This is e.g. the case if persons advertise on the market that they regularly purchase and sell BTC. Another example is mining pools commercially sharing profit from mined and sold BTC in return for computing power provided by the user.
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I would say BaFin is the government website. They are the Federal Financial Supervisory Authority for germany.
http://www.bafin.de/SharedDocs/Veroeffentlichungen/EN/Fachartikel/2014/fa_bj_1401_bitcoins_en.html
BaFin has qualified BTC with legally binding effect as financial instruments in the form of units of account pursuant to section 1 (11) sentence 1 of the German Banking Act
The mere use of BTC as a substitute currency for cash or scriptural money in currencies of legal tender to participate in the economy through exchange transactions is not an activity subject to authorisation. The provider may have his services paid with BTC without thereby providing banking transactions or financial services. The same holds true for the customer. Likewise, mining BTC per se does not constitute a transaction subject to authorisation since the miner does not issue or place the BTC himself. Neither is the sale of mined or acquired BTC or their purchase generally subject to authorisation.
However, an authorisation requirement may arise from additional circumstances. This applies where it is not only the case that BTC are mined, purchased or sold to participate in an existing market but in addition a special contribution is paid to create or preserve such market. This then qualifies as proprietary trading subject to authorisation pursuant to section 1 (1a) no. 4 of the KWG because of the additional service providing element. This is e.g. the case if persons advertise on the market that they regularly purchase and sell BTC. Another example is mining pools commercially sharing profit from mined and sold BTC in return for computing power provided by the user.
Aaaah, there we go, thank you SO much for your help Empirical!!
That link does not work for me though, did you have a login or something? Or is there a more direct link to the specific chapter that begins talking about cryptos?
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BAMM:
http://www.bafin.de/SiteGlobals/Forms/Suche/EN/Servicesuche_Formular.html?nn=2799994&submit=Search&templateQueryString=bitcoins&sortOrder=score+desc
Thanx again Empirical :)
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i'd strongly adivse you to talk with a local tax consultant or tax lawyer if you plan to create a serious business around crypto in germany ...
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I have been, but she is not cheap. I see her every couple of weeks for accounting and legal related stuff so she helps with all that at her office for me. She was the one who advised me on the different points below (feel free to use them)...
Side note: I can't believe they make it so hard to find specific government links about crypto. Those docs are still very limited. That last link I posted above was all that I could find, so when asked, I will probably setup a tiny.cc url right to that link so people can see for themselves. I'm adding these links to the website datenschutz, impressum, AGB, urheberrecht, etc.
1. I work for an Amerikan company (BitShares) so the name "BitShares Munich" is just a brand/website, not a company.
2. I use the term "Crypto Coach", not Consultant. I do not need a Profession license.
3. I am not a Money Transmitter or an ATM machine, so no banking license is needed.
4. I am not a Broker, Accountant or an Attorney. I do not give financial, tax or legal advice.
5. I do not trade securities for myself or anyone else so a Securities license is not needed.
6. I am not a teacher with an office that students come to, therefore no Educators license or academic credentials needed.
I, as a Crypto Coach am providing products and services to those that wish to use and learn about cryptocurrencies.
I'm sure the rest of the BitShares community here can start offering the same thing to the people in their respective locales. Governments are going to realize that they want a piece of the crypto pie too, so using the proper legal wording in your ads (@38PTSwarrior) is very important. Don't give the authorities any reason at all to see you as competition, or try to force licensing fines on you.
I am adding "Crypto Coach" videos in english and deutsch to my youtube channel today as well:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCb78hNwIPH_44DnpvFrA-NQ
The content that I post online is of my own opinion and should not be taken as financial, tax or legal advice.
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I have been, but she is not cheap. I see her every couple of weeks for accounting and legal related stuff so she helps with all that at her office for me. She was the one who advised me on the different points below (feel free to use them)...
Side note: I can't believe they make it so hard to find specific government links about crypto. Those docs are still very limited. That last link I posted above was all that I could find, so when asked, I will probably setup a tiny.cc url right to that link so people can see for themselves. I'm adding these links to the website datenschutz, impressum, AGB, urheberrecht, etc.
1. I work for an Amerikan company (BitShares) so the name "BitShares Munich" is just a brand/website, not a company.
2. I use the term "Crypto Coach", not Consultant. I do not need a Profession license.
3. I am not a Money Transmitter or an ATM machine, so no banking license is needed.
4. I am not a Broker, Accountant or an Attorney. I do not give financial, tax or legal advice.
5. I do not trade securities for myself or anyone else so a Securities license is not needed.
6. I am not a teacher with an office that students come to, therefore no Educators license or academic credentials needed.
I, as a Crypto Coach am providing products and services to those that wish to use and learn about cryptocurrencies.
I'm sure the rest of the BitShares community here can start offering the same thing to the people in their respective locales. Governments are going to realize that they want a piece of the crypto pie too, so using the proper legal wording in your ads (@38PTSwarrior) is very important. Don't give the authorities any reason at all to see you as competition, or try to force licensing fines on you.
I am adding "Crypto Coach" videos in english and deutsch to my youtube channel today as well:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCb78hNwIPH_44DnpvFrA-NQ
The content that I post online is of my own opinion and should not be taken as financial, tax or legal advice.
Hey Ken, what you have accomplished is very impressive! Just wondering...you had a contest to design a new banner and it was great but you don't have it on your web site or you tube channel. Why?
Vote for @kencode as a delegate. He gets things done!!!!!!!!!!!
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Thanx cusknee! I could certainly use the votes. I can do a lot more ads and work with some income. All these bounties and everything right now is still coming out of my pocket and the wifey is not so enthused :o
The banner is on the BitShares Munich meetup page:
http://www.meetup.com/BitShares-Munich/
@Mjbmonetarymetals (as we speak) is sizing one for our youtube channel (not uploaded yet):
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCb78hNwIPH_44DnpvFrA-NQ
..and he'll have another sized for our G+ page:
https://plus.google.com/111824387753373900506
..and the new BitShares-Munich.de website (not ready till July) will have it in the footer across the bottom.
I paid him a little extra for the additional resizes too, he's a happy camper and an amazing artist!