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Quote from: lafona on November 06, 2015, 01:06:20 pmQuote from: funnybear on November 06, 2015, 12:46:16 amIf I buy my lifetime membership at "DACPLAY", am I still able to use that lifetime member username to refer new users via "openledger"?As far as I know it should. The lifetime membership and the account is registered on the blockchain. When you refer someone your lifetime account will be listed as the lifetime referrer for that account and that information will be stored at the blockchain level.this. your status will change anyways on the blockchain with the uprgade.edit: check fav membership status to see how a lifetime member looks like on chain
Quote from: funnybear on November 06, 2015, 12:46:16 amIf I buy my lifetime membership at "DACPLAY", am I still able to use that lifetime member username to refer new users via "openledger"?As far as I know it should. The lifetime membership and the account is registered on the blockchain. When you refer someone your lifetime account will be listed as the lifetime referrer for that account and that information will be stored at the blockchain level.
If I buy my lifetime membership at "DACPLAY", am I still able to use that lifetime member username to refer new users via "openledger"?
Quote from: luckybit on November 06, 2015, 11:27:52 pmQuote from: clayop on November 06, 2015, 09:52:36 pmQuote from: bytemaster on November 06, 2015, 09:39:45 pmWhat use case do you want to support, an exchange or a currency? Exchange!I totally agree wit BM. If we can charge the "network fee" of 0.1~0.15% on traders, referrers will get much more money.BitShares first should be the trader's heaven, no counterparty risks, decent trading speed (1~3sec), honest orderbook, and lower fees (slightly maybe).If our system is attractive, bots and traders will come and generate money.Looking forward to reading the worker proposal!It's much more complicated than that. Without the bond market and prediction market, or margin trading, what is the liquidity supposed to come from? Traders need loans to keep trading. There has to be profit taking from somewhere.The referral market is a great idea and I support any plans to expand or continue the growth of it, but it's not enough. We need a loan market. People who for example make money from the referrals might benefit form margin trading. Other people who make money from referrals might want a place to park their wealth and might decide loaning for a safe 1-5% in interest is best. Another person might launch a UIA of a decentralized market fund and let everyone who holds it collect dividends.We need as many different opportunities for profit making as we can generate. We then need to advertise the opportunities to take a profit. If the UI/UX is sufficient, and the profit opportunities are ubiquitous, there will be an endless supply of profit takers and then Bitshares will be flooded with liquidity.Profit opportunity acts as the bait which attracts everyone to Bitshares. If there isn't any known way to make a profit we will not do much trading. Right now it's too hard to use the interface or to make a profit. I'm unable to figure Bitshares 2.0 out well enough to know how to take a profit and it seems most everyone is losing money trying to trade right now.There aren't any blogs set up to show people how to trade. How do you expect to attract traders when you don't have a network of blogs showing people your trading schemes and spreadsheets examining how much money you made? There isn't even a troll box so people who are making money can discuss it while they are making money.As a result, it looks like Bitshares isn't being used at all. If anyone is using it to make money they seem to prefer to keep everything a secret. Keeping it a secret is not going to market the platform. The way to market the platform is to bring profit making opportunities to regular people.Prediction markets, bond markets, margin trading, referral markets, crowd funding, and as soon as legal, equity crowd funding. Do that and you'll have plenty of advertising not coming from the forum, but from people launching crowd fund campaigns on the Bitshares platform, or from people making lots of money trading on the Bitshares platform, the sort of people who make a living trading on the Bitshares platform are the best possible marketing to professional traders. Show it's possible to be a professional trader and you'll attract more people who want to be professional traders.I am about 90% sure the worker proposal includes margin trading. ...prediction market just needs a gui.
Quote from: clayop on November 06, 2015, 09:52:36 pmQuote from: bytemaster on November 06, 2015, 09:39:45 pmWhat use case do you want to support, an exchange or a currency? Exchange!I totally agree wit BM. If we can charge the "network fee" of 0.1~0.15% on traders, referrers will get much more money.BitShares first should be the trader's heaven, no counterparty risks, decent trading speed (1~3sec), honest orderbook, and lower fees (slightly maybe).If our system is attractive, bots and traders will come and generate money.Looking forward to reading the worker proposal!It's much more complicated than that. Without the bond market and prediction market, or margin trading, what is the liquidity supposed to come from? Traders need loans to keep trading. There has to be profit taking from somewhere.The referral market is a great idea and I support any plans to expand or continue the growth of it, but it's not enough. We need a loan market. People who for example make money from the referrals might benefit form margin trading. Other people who make money from referrals might want a place to park their wealth and might decide loaning for a safe 1-5% in interest is best. Another person might launch a UIA of a decentralized market fund and let everyone who holds it collect dividends.We need as many different opportunities for profit making as we can generate. We then need to advertise the opportunities to take a profit. If the UI/UX is sufficient, and the profit opportunities are ubiquitous, there will be an endless supply of profit takers and then Bitshares will be flooded with liquidity.Profit opportunity acts as the bait which attracts everyone to Bitshares. If there isn't any known way to make a profit we will not do much trading. Right now it's too hard to use the interface or to make a profit. I'm unable to figure Bitshares 2.0 out well enough to know how to take a profit and it seems most everyone is losing money trying to trade right now.There aren't any blogs set up to show people how to trade. How do you expect to attract traders when you don't have a network of blogs showing people your trading schemes and spreadsheets examining how much money you made? There isn't even a troll box so people who are making money can discuss it while they are making money.As a result, it looks like Bitshares isn't being used at all. If anyone is using it to make money they seem to prefer to keep everything a secret. Keeping it a secret is not going to market the platform. The way to market the platform is to bring profit making opportunities to regular people.Prediction markets, bond markets, margin trading, referral markets, crowd funding, and as soon as legal, equity crowd funding. Do that and you'll have plenty of advertising not coming from the forum, but from people launching crowd fund campaigns on the Bitshares platform, or from people making lots of money trading on the Bitshares platform, the sort of people who make a living trading on the Bitshares platform are the best possible marketing to professional traders. Show it's possible to be a professional trader and you'll attract more people who want to be professional traders.
Quote from: bytemaster on November 06, 2015, 09:39:45 pmWhat use case do you want to support, an exchange or a currency? Exchange!I totally agree wit BM. If we can charge the "network fee" of 0.1~0.15% on traders, referrers will get much more money.BitShares first should be the trader's heaven, no counterparty risks, decent trading speed (1~3sec), honest orderbook, and lower fees (slightly maybe).If our system is attractive, bots and traders will come and generate money.Looking forward to reading the worker proposal!
What use case do you want to support, an exchange or a currency?
Quote from: Pheonike on November 06, 2015, 10:45:49 pmWhat is the use case of Bitshares for average user at moment? Buy and Hold. Buy and Hold doesn't generate a lot of fees which doesn't generate alot of income for referrers.There is anything for them to use it for yet. The only thing for the average user to do is refer other users. What is the average user using bitshares for at the moment?. The infrastructure is still being built. Currently there is use case for traders. They have an immediate use for Bitshares. They can trade between other assets/uia and use bitusd to hedge. Traders are the immediate customer for Bitshares. They will generate the most fees for referrers. Until an average user can buy groceries or pay bills with bitusd they wont be generating fees because they wont be transferring BitAssets anyway. , referral programme has limited value atmQuote from: Empirical1.2 on October 30, 2015, 12:37:24 pmThe referral program won't work without a product to sell. The core product is BitAssets, but without a credible plan for liquidity/incentives for market makers it will be very slow going to attract regular customers. If you're struggling to artificially create BitAsset liquidity then you have to look at introducing other key sellable products that will bring users in and who will slowly create that liquidity over time. But paying more people to promote BTS but with nothing users want to buy when they get here is not the answer imo. We can see from the recent LTC and BTC pyramid ponzi schemes that when people are incentivised to promote crypto related products they can quickly go viral.So combine a legitimate referral programme with an innovative and useful crypto product & you do have the recipe for great results.
What is the use case of Bitshares for average user at moment? Buy and Hold. Buy and Hold doesn't generate a lot of fees which doesn't generate alot of income for referrers.There is anything for them to use it for yet. The only thing for the average user to do is refer other users. What is the average user using bitshares for at the moment?. The infrastructure is still being built. Currently there is use case for traders. They have an immediate use for Bitshares. They can trade between other assets/uia and use bitusd to hedge. Traders are the immediate customer for Bitshares. They will generate the most fees for referrers. Until an average user can buy groceries or pay bills with bitusd they wont be generating fees because they wont be transferring BitAssets anyway.
The referral program won't work without a product to sell. The core product is BitAssets, but without a credible plan for liquidity/incentives for market makers it will be very slow going to attract regular customers. If you're struggling to artificially create BitAsset liquidity then you have to look at introducing other key sellable products that will bring users in and who will slowly create that liquidity over time. But paying more people to promote BTS but with nothing users want to buy when they get here is not the answer imo.
so you guys are fine with charging traders $5k for a lifetime membership yet you get teary eyed for a $0.15 tx fee? interesting.
For your fun, I made a simple spreasheet for LTM price calculationhttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/139sx5ozo3KY7FzF0SeI9q6XFcaAPqejkL0ErNaMyKHk/edit?usp=sharing
Also the regular users become day traders. Bitcoin miners became day traders. Referral markets could take their profits and then be day traders as a second job.
Okay, I understand now. This is much better and it could generate someone a serious income for referring heavy users. This incentive is more powerful in aiming at the business we want to attract. And I assume that if we did manage to get the traders here, then theoretically, the incentives could be changed again to fit another need that might arise in the future.What will be the cost of a lifetime membership now?
Under the current referral program none of that money would be going to referrers. Under the new referral program 80% of that money would be going to referrers. So which is going to generate more referral income? Trading or Transfers? To generate 540,000 per year from transfers would require a sustained 5 transfers per minute on the network. What use case do you want to support, an exchange or a currency?
Quote from: clayop on November 06, 2015, 09:52:36 pmQuote from: bytemaster on November 06, 2015, 09:39:45 pmWhat use case do you want to support, an exchange or a currency? Exchange!I totally agree wit BM. If we can charge the "network fee" of 0.1~0.15% on traders, referrers will get much more money.BitShares first should be the trader's heaven, no counterparty risks, decent trading speed (1~3sec), honest orderbook, and lower fees (slightly maybe).If our system is attractive, bots and traders will come and generate money.Looking forward to reading the worker proposal!I disagree. a daytrader will upgrade to lifetime and that's it.as I wrote earlier, if your LT upgrades go down from 10 to maybe 1 per 1000 it's literally a negative marketing initiative. since you will never be able to make enough money to sustain campaigns or even worth your time.
From a referrer perspective, which is going to generate you more money: referring 100 people each of which does a few transfers per year or referring one person who does day trading?If we can get the day traders then we make money. Much easier and much more profitable. I am thinking that the lifetime value of a day trader is much higher than the LTV of a regular user. This means that the LTM fees should be much higher.
*** NOT CANCELING THE REFERRAL PROGRAM **You should not believe everything you read on these forums
Quote from: mint chocolate chip on November 06, 2015, 09:19:01 pmQuote from: fav on November 06, 2015, 09:16:45 pmQuote from: mint chocolate chip on November 06, 2015, 08:45:04 pmQuote from: luckybit on November 06, 2015, 08:30:57 pmQuote from: Thom on November 04, 2015, 10:10:10 pmI'd like to get a definitive answer. Perhaps my goal is to make BitShares successful and indirectly I benefit. Besides, there's more to a business than just getting some referral income, which according to your numbers (so far at least) doesn't look sustainable as a profitable business, especially if you consider what it would cost to obtain a CNX license before you signed up 42 new users for a 2500 BTS reward.And that is the secret to the success or failure of Bitshares. Developers have to create as many technical ways for us to make BitShares successful while allowing us to indirectly benefit. The more we can align the two the better the ecosystem will get.The referral program is just the beginning of course. There is also the Brownie.PTS, the crowd funding opportunities, the potential bond market, the potential prediction market, so we have to basically bootstrap an industry and attract people to the community with mutually benefiting profit opportunities.If his stats show 42 users / 2500 bts reward figures, then that means none of his referred users upgraded to annual/lifetime accounts, otherwise it would reflect a much higher reward.currently it's ~10 LT per 1000 sign-ups. this is a numbers game, don't bother looking at my 44 users. anyways, if BM makes true what he said in today's mumble there's no need to talk about referral program or earning money here anymore. since that will be deadCan you explain please, I wasn't in the mumble and this sounds like something I want to hear.there will be a proposal by him, basically nulling all fees except for trading fees.sounds good at the beginning, but there's absolutely no need for regular users to upgrade their accounts. that makes 10 LT per 1000 to MAYBE 1 (an active trader) per 1000. there's no way a marketer can sustain at that level.
Quote from: fav on November 06, 2015, 09:16:45 pmQuote from: mint chocolate chip on November 06, 2015, 08:45:04 pmQuote from: luckybit on November 06, 2015, 08:30:57 pmQuote from: Thom on November 04, 2015, 10:10:10 pmI'd like to get a definitive answer. Perhaps my goal is to make BitShares successful and indirectly I benefit. Besides, there's more to a business than just getting some referral income, which according to your numbers (so far at least) doesn't look sustainable as a profitable business, especially if you consider what it would cost to obtain a CNX license before you signed up 42 new users for a 2500 BTS reward.And that is the secret to the success or failure of Bitshares. Developers have to create as many technical ways for us to make BitShares successful while allowing us to indirectly benefit. The more we can align the two the better the ecosystem will get.The referral program is just the beginning of course. There is also the Brownie.PTS, the crowd funding opportunities, the potential bond market, the potential prediction market, so we have to basically bootstrap an industry and attract people to the community with mutually benefiting profit opportunities.If his stats show 42 users / 2500 bts reward figures, then that means none of his referred users upgraded to annual/lifetime accounts, otherwise it would reflect a much higher reward.currently it's ~10 LT per 1000 sign-ups. this is a numbers game, don't bother looking at my 44 users. anyways, if BM makes true what he said in today's mumble there's no need to talk about referral program or earning money here anymore. since that will be deadCan you explain please, I wasn't in the mumble and this sounds like something I want to hear.
Quote from: mint chocolate chip on November 06, 2015, 08:45:04 pmQuote from: luckybit on November 06, 2015, 08:30:57 pmQuote from: Thom on November 04, 2015, 10:10:10 pmI'd like to get a definitive answer. Perhaps my goal is to make BitShares successful and indirectly I benefit. Besides, there's more to a business than just getting some referral income, which according to your numbers (so far at least) doesn't look sustainable as a profitable business, especially if you consider what it would cost to obtain a CNX license before you signed up 42 new users for a 2500 BTS reward.And that is the secret to the success or failure of Bitshares. Developers have to create as many technical ways for us to make BitShares successful while allowing us to indirectly benefit. The more we can align the two the better the ecosystem will get.The referral program is just the beginning of course. There is also the Brownie.PTS, the crowd funding opportunities, the potential bond market, the potential prediction market, so we have to basically bootstrap an industry and attract people to the community with mutually benefiting profit opportunities.If his stats show 42 users / 2500 bts reward figures, then that means none of his referred users upgraded to annual/lifetime accounts, otherwise it would reflect a much higher reward.currently it's ~10 LT per 1000 sign-ups. this is a numbers game, don't bother looking at my 44 users. anyways, if BM makes true what he said in today's mumble there's no need to talk about referral program or earning money here anymore. since that will be dead
Quote from: luckybit on November 06, 2015, 08:30:57 pmQuote from: Thom on November 04, 2015, 10:10:10 pmI'd like to get a definitive answer. Perhaps my goal is to make BitShares successful and indirectly I benefit. Besides, there's more to a business than just getting some referral income, which according to your numbers (so far at least) doesn't look sustainable as a profitable business, especially if you consider what it would cost to obtain a CNX license before you signed up 42 new users for a 2500 BTS reward.And that is the secret to the success or failure of Bitshares. Developers have to create as many technical ways for us to make BitShares successful while allowing us to indirectly benefit. The more we can align the two the better the ecosystem will get.The referral program is just the beginning of course. There is also the Brownie.PTS, the crowd funding opportunities, the potential bond market, the potential prediction market, so we have to basically bootstrap an industry and attract people to the community with mutually benefiting profit opportunities.If his stats show 42 users / 2500 bts reward figures, then that means none of his referred users upgraded to annual/lifetime accounts, otherwise it would reflect a much higher reward.
Quote from: Thom on November 04, 2015, 10:10:10 pmI'd like to get a definitive answer. Perhaps my goal is to make BitShares successful and indirectly I benefit. Besides, there's more to a business than just getting some referral income, which according to your numbers (so far at least) doesn't look sustainable as a profitable business, especially if you consider what it would cost to obtain a CNX license before you signed up 42 new users for a 2500 BTS reward.And that is the secret to the success or failure of Bitshares. Developers have to create as many technical ways for us to make BitShares successful while allowing us to indirectly benefit. The more we can align the two the better the ecosystem will get.The referral program is just the beginning of course. There is also the Brownie.PTS, the crowd funding opportunities, the potential bond market, the potential prediction market, so we have to basically bootstrap an industry and attract people to the community with mutually benefiting profit opportunities.
I'd like to get a definitive answer. Perhaps my goal is to make BitShares successful and indirectly I benefit. Besides, there's more to a business than just getting some referral income, which according to your numbers (so far at least) doesn't look sustainable as a profitable business, especially if you consider what it would cost to obtain a CNX license before you signed up 42 new users for a 2500 BTS reward.
Quote from: Thom on November 04, 2015, 09:23:05 pmIs the light wallet offered in the same manor as the source for Graphene - available on github and with the same restrictions that "you need a license if you build a business using this"?@Thom both Graphene and GUI (wallets) are free to use with BitShares blockchain, you don't need a special license for them.The faucet server software used to power https://bitshares.openledger.info is not open sourced yet, if you considering to use it, please contact Cryptonomex.Also FYI - we are working on a solution to support referrals in light wallets.
Is the light wallet offered in the same manor as the source for Graphene - available on github and with the same restrictions that "you need a license if you build a business using this"?
tested using my own web node using a browser:file://filelocation/index.html?r=maqifrnswaworked in firefox. openledger-reg (faucet) was registrar, i was referrer
I like your bot btw.Why is it down? I can use some more bitUSD, even at 2 at a time.
@Thom to QuoteQ2 (Why that is called a "light" wallet makes no sense to me, but that's not really important.)It's called light wallet because you don't need the graphene toolkit to run it .. on other words .. you'll also connect to a full node (weight client) ..
Q2 (Why that is called a "light" wallet makes no sense to me, but that's not really important.)
Thanks @fav. I think your answer to Q4 is the same as it was in Telegram yesterday.The answer doesn't fully satisfy, kindof like "light" beer Is the light wallet offered in the same manor as the source for Graphene - available on github and with the same restrictions that "you need a license if you build a business using this"?If so does using it to get new users to create BitShares accounts constitute "building a business" around it?
I asked this on Telegram yesterday but not sure I understand it all.The questions were related to referral program, what is the "light" wallet and licensing.I see how referrals can be done now (hooray!) using the OpenLedger wallet. Jakub asked the question about the split of fees I didn't see a reply to, so that is my first question:Q1: How are the referral fees split for OpenLedger? Is it indeed 60% to referrer, 20% to network, 10% to CNX and 10% to CCDEK?From what I understood in the Telegram convo, the "light" wallet is the OpenLedger javascript bundled with (i.e. built into) the open source Chromium web browser as a binary executable. Why that is called a "light" wallet makes no sense to me, but that's not really important.Q2: Is that what the "light" wallet actually is, and is it updated along with changes to OpenLedger, or is it a reference implementation that will not be changed much aside from bug fixes (i.e. without the goal of keeping it uptodate with OpenLedger)?Q3: Can it also be pointed at any graphene websocket server via settings like the OpenLedger wallet?Q4: Is the source for the "light" wallet truly open and free to build on?Q5: How does the "light" wallet handle referrals, and how are the referral fees split?It was also stated that if one wanted to provide a faucet to incentivize users, that would require a license from CNX.Q6: Is that flatly, always true?Q7: Depending on the answers to Q4 & Q5 I can see ways to possibly get around that. The whole topic of licensing is a bit muddy. I am not interested in any type of "hosted" wallet, where I would store any user account info. That was what I thought CNX licensing was focused on, as well as direct, exclusive (i.e. proprietary) use of CNX technology for a private blockchain. It doesn't make much sense to me to penalize my desire to incentivize account creation with a little faucet funding with a license. I could also just tell anybody that signs up with my referral code / account to contact me directly to receive their token faucet deposit.
Hi fav , " http://www.bitshares.org/?r=accountname", does this work , because the wallet will be one more click ahead right ?
Why do I read "BLOCKCHAIN IS OUT OF SYNC, PLEASE WAIT UNTIL IT'S SYNCHRONIZED.. Head block #624035" (number is counting up) here?https://bitshares.openledger.infoIs something wrong?
And I'm assuming that https://bitshares.org/wallet/?r=fav will work as well?
Does it mean that the big & complex task of affiliation system (the one BM was referring to in the last mumble, he said @valzav had been actively working on it for the last couple of days) is finally finished & fully tested?