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Messages - btswildpig

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271
General Discussion / Re: Connecting the dots
« on: January 27, 2016, 04:37:08 pm »
The smart coin design is contingent on people speculate on the rise of BitShares ..

And BM always said : speculators are just people who want to dump their shares at higher price . They don't contribute to the system like the developers do . They contribute "nothing" compare to the developers .


Here we are . A smart coin system whose core is totally based on the theory of a speculative market , and the builder himself think speculating on the price of bitshares has no meaning . And he think as long as they can keep develop , no matter the ungreatful speculators keep leaving , users will come , the system will be good . But how on earth could we provide a product to the customers when our product relies on people positively on the short term return of BTS ?

272
General Discussion / Re: Bitshares price discussion
« on: January 27, 2016, 11:40:19 am »
super33 sent 13,670,000 BTS to poloniexwallet
block 3,002,472 - 5 hours ago - 32 BTS
super33 sent 3,000,000 BTS to poloniexwallet
block 3,002,371 - 5 hours ago - 32 BTS
super33 sent 500,000 BTS to blocktrades
block 2,827,051 - 6 days ago - 32 BTS

I guess Storj Labs needed an injection of cash... :(

this is him , super33?
Perhaps super33 is bm.

Pretty sure it's him yea, he mined the first PTS block so probably had lots of PTS, and was a contractor for Invictus which I guess gave him even more. All of which probably translated into a huge stake in BTSX/BTS.

crap , and he waited until....now to claim it .
No wonder there is endless BTS on the market . There are still a lot unsold early miners .

273
General Discussion / Re: Bitshares price discussion
« on: January 27, 2016, 07:40:39 am »
super33 sent 13,670,000 BTS to poloniexwallet
block 3,002,472 - 5 hours ago - 32 BTS
super33 sent 3,000,000 BTS to poloniexwallet
block 3,002,371 - 5 hours ago - 32 BTS
super33 sent 500,000 BTS to blocktrades
block 2,827,051 - 6 days ago - 32 BTS

I guess Storj Labs needed an injection of cash... :(

this is him , super33?

274
General Discussion / Re: Trading Contest on the Testnet?
« on: January 27, 2016, 07:12:51 am »
I pledge 1000 bts to the contest

275
General Discussion / Re: Connecting the dots
« on: January 27, 2016, 06:18:41 am »
Bitcoin foundation spent 7 million USD in the past 2 years .

And that's Bitcoin , a coin with zero new functions , and doesn't even need to spend 7 million to keep it running . All the cost went to lobbying stuff or activity , etc .

So you get the idea , when people have "budget"  and "will to spend" ,  all idea to spend it will come out .

And after ran out off money , they finally cut off 95% the spending that they thought was necessary and couldn't be cut off in the first place .

That's what people do when the budget is limited and people won't contribute to it anymore without seeing actual positive result  .

Now , imaging bitcoin foundation has the power to dilute on bitcoin "on need" , what kind of proposal will they propose ? they of course will propose a lot of things that "necessary for bitcoin to survive. "

276
General Discussion / Re: Bitshares price discussion
« on: January 27, 2016, 02:22:34 am »
Are they selling for tax losses now - with the intention of buying back when Privacy Mode is in place in a couple of weeks?

buying back bitshares is the burden of the speculators .
Developers need to put food on the table . Why would they risking financial lost by buying back BitShares when they can do programming to earn it at market rate . 

277
@alt 我准备申请worker了,这个思路:

建一个新账户申请worker,由我、Jakub和理事会共同管理(多重签名),worker资金进入这个新账户。这个账户所有的动作需要得到理事会批准,也就是说,
理事会投票决定什么时候放款给我

我的资金分两部分:
第一部分用来short 1000 TUSD,通过巨蟹网关转账给BM (顺便问下 @bitcrab 这样可以吗?)
第二部分我自愿冻结1年

Jakub也会申请一些资金,用来写详细文档。冻结1年。

还有一笔资金用于给svk开发界面。

你看怎么样?
第一,我1年内不砸盘
第二,提供1000 TUSD给市场增加流动性,我自己承担BTS价格下降导致爆仓的风险

2016 感动bts 的中国开发者。
你要跟老外们强调,你也要养家糊口,你也想马上卖,但是为了bts的前途和利益着想,暂时不卖。让老外们对比下 :P

278
Lack of dilution does not support a price and in fact can collapse it all the way to liquidation price.

Suppose a startup company spent $3 million dollars and three years of development and had so little revenue that it couldn't even fund one developer, but still had some of the best technology and lots of potential value.

Suppose this startup company had bylaws that prevented it from diluting without 100% approval.

Suppose there was a single shareholder that refused to allow dilution.

All work would stop, offices closed, servers shut down until that single shareholder sold to someone who would approve dilution to raise funds.

The longer that shareholder held out the lower the liquidation price would go until finally the price is 0 because the assets of the company were not maintained and all the talent left.

So the question of dilution is really about a game of musical chairs where current speculators want to minimize "sell pressure" so they can exit at a higher price and leave everyone else holding the bag.

My conclusion is that dilution hurts speculators who didn't factor it into their purchase decision. Dilution does push the price down if it is sold, this is identical to selling shares for dollars to hire labor. The more you dilute the larger the "funding round".

But just because dilution, by definition, lowers the price it does not prove that not-diluting will raise the price or prevent it from falling.  Instead, the price will fall because the market knows that dilution is needed to keep the company alive and adapting long enough to find the product / market fit.

In other words, whether you want dilution or not, the price will ultimately reflect the need for investment (aka the need for dilution). In some sense, the longer you delay the more you must dilute to make up for lost time and lower valuations.     

So if the premise is that diluting by $6 million per year when BTS is at $100M is ok, but diluting by $300 thousand per year when BTS is at $5M is not ok then you are essentially saying that once BTS falls below a certain threshold all work should stop and everyone who is left should be powerless to revive their investment by attracting new capital?

So what happens next is that a clone of BTS is created with a new allocation that then attempts to fix all of the problems and realize the value potential of the basic technology. At this point the BTS holders will be lucky if the new investors allocate them a cut at all when they have little financial incentive to do so.

Ultimately, dilution is the means of bringing in new investors to BTS and discouraging them from starting a clone that grants them sufficient ownership to make it worth their time and money.

I think all you're saying is that :
1. You need dilution .
2. You think after all these magical amazing development result that you're so proud of , BitShares will go to zero after stop continue working on it , even BitShares is already significantly lower than Dogecoin(a coin with zero function) or Dash's market cap already . So the translation is , the value of BitShares is contingent on the continue work , and if one day there is no more work , BitShares dies  .

So your future worker proposal's value proposition becomes , "this work will cost BitShares xxx dilution , but keep in mind , its effect won't be sustained if you reject our future proposal" .

I'm not really following .  When you built good DAC software , it doesn't suppose to work that way .
And I don't think a system that runs this way can really be used for major user cases . After all , what if one day the developers go on a trip and don't have time to manually keep it running ? 1 week ? 2 week ? What time do you expect this trip could kill BitShares ?

Can one of your future proposal do something "that even if we left , the valuable work that we've done will provide good strength for BTS , and BTS wouldn't die because of my amazing work ? " ?

I think that's the kind of proposal that people would be gladly vote it in ,  not these "you have to keep paying , or the previous work will be for nothing " .

In fact , let's make it two kinds of worker proposals . The ones that truely strenghthens BitShares and will keep BitShares grow  , and the other ones will contribute nothing just empty promise of adding value to it but even the writer of the proposal doesn't believe it .  People should file their proposal properly in order for a true vote . 

279
do you have a plan for the development work?
It's up to each worker proposal to have a viable plan and deliver - or not get paid.

do you have a budget limit?
Yes, each worker proposal has a strict limit and there is also a total limit for all worker proposals - 5 BTS per second.

do you have a priority for the task lists?
Yes, priority is set by shareholders' votes.

the value of these devlopment's will be relected in what place?
take the money from these place please. this could be a fair deal.
This is what FBAs are for.

What's your point, alt? You've been with BitShares long enough to know all these things.
Let us not be scared by the market cap - this is only a manifestation of external perception by people who look for a quick profit.

We are in a good shape - as long as the development is steady and the stuff we produce can be considered useful for our future customers.
Spending funds meant for workers on... our workers is part of our business model - we do and should continue to do it, just like others spend money on mining.

so why don't we just dilute 100000000000000000000000000000000 BTS to hire more people to develop amazing features for BTS ?  Knowing every BTS spent will be well worth it .

And make it 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 BTS dilution , and we will take over Bitcoin soon

280
I prefer to pay for the development work from our network income.
Where does this "network income" is supposed to come from?
I thought you were a strong proponent of low transfer fees.

even we can issue an IOU USD reserved by future network income, we can pay development by the future income.
if you believe your work worth for the payment, it should bring enough incomes, and these incomes will used to buy back the IOU USA.
So you want the devs to do the job and take the downside risk.
If things go bad, they'll foot the bill.
If things go well, you'll be happy to participate in the profits.

so I'll be the bad guy, I'll object all dilution workers.
if you agree me, please set account "baozi" as your  vote proxy, thanks.
I disagree with you completely.
High quality & efficient devs are one of our best assets.

We have a consensus embedded in the blockchain that allows us to spend 5 BTS per second on workers. And this consensus is already factored in the price.
Other blockchains spend it on electricity, we spend it on development - this is our strength.
We should utilize those funds and not be scared about the market cap going down.
Unless you think that BitShares is a finished product at this stage and no more development is needed.

Spending money by dilution is not a strength .
It's just "things that everybody knows how to do" .
Every company on Earth knows how to spending money .

Only few of them can yielded positive financial gain .  Most of them are bankrupted  . 

Doing the right thing , making the right choice , spending the money with calculated strategy , and amend the strategy when realize you've made a wrong move , is strength .


281
Technical Support / Re: dividend for asset
« on: January 24, 2016, 03:13:23 pm »
Could you tell us more about what you are trying to do? This sounds like it could be interesting.

pay dividend to UIA holders

282
General Discussion / Re: Marketing cap of bts descend to twelfth.
« on: January 24, 2016, 01:53:15 pm »
... I just read the code

You just "read the code"? Please, enlighten us.

He meant he is disappointed in BitShares , but not in the code , and he is reading the code to study it .

283
when will TBTC , TDOGE coming  8) 8) 8)

284
General Discussion / Re: Meanwhile - Ethereum quietly overtakes Litecoin
« on: January 24, 2016, 06:08:49 am »
I think they well deserve it. They have great ideas, great developers and did way better marketing it then we did.
And we need to get to the point that we have the same optimism and enthusiasm in our community as they have it in theirs.
Who's with me?

I think it's not that simple .
Crypto are risky investment object , it's not like any usual commodity where you can sell it like crazy by promotion , features and usage .

The only reason that a risky investment object can rise is because some capital is willing to risk their money and speculate on a return . Users are not gonna do that , they'll just pay petty fees and won't risk that much .

Even with Ethereum today, I don't think it's development,marketing that matters . Coding and marketing are cheap , Money is real .   

That's why I also believe Bitcoin will still be the king in many years to come .

It's just like the argument against alt-coin in the beginning ----- No matter how good you are , people can copy it in one sec .  But what they can't copy , is the money behind it .

285
General Discussion / Re: Meanwhile - Ethereum quietly overtakes Litecoin
« on: January 24, 2016, 06:04:01 am »
Let it rise and rise, paves the way for all 2.0 stuff, just like Bitcoin paved the way for Litecoin. Reminds me how low LTC/Ripple are atm, not to mention BitShares, everybody work hard and invest your best, in the end freedom and powerlaws beats divisory common sense ;)

a little different . LTC go up because of speculative drive .

And bitshares has made a point that it's gonna rise through "real users" .

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