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Quote from: Riverhead on August 17, 2014, 12:53:02 pmQuote from: cass on August 17, 2014, 12:27:01 pmQuote from: xeroc on August 17, 2014, 10:07:50 amAlso the hacker seems to have returned the NXT 50m ..http://www.reddit.com/r/NXT/comments/2ds1m0/hacker_begins_to_return_stolen_nxt/ok wow - why he's doing that? Was it like a penetration test ... ?That puts it at about 10% of the market value of the heist. Bter is still getting off easy. Are they still going to fork?One of the hacker's NXT message says, "DevilDave is a plunker" or something like that. Perhaps it was proving a point about the true autonomous nature of a blockchain's ability to resist tampering. Also, the hacker still has the 100BTC for their efforts.I believe the price was raised to 300 BTC.
Quote from: cass on August 17, 2014, 12:27:01 pmQuote from: xeroc on August 17, 2014, 10:07:50 amAlso the hacker seems to have returned the NXT 50m ..http://www.reddit.com/r/NXT/comments/2ds1m0/hacker_begins_to_return_stolen_nxt/ok wow - why he's doing that? Was it like a penetration test ... ?That puts it at about 10% of the market value of the heist. Bter is still getting off easy. Are they still going to fork?One of the hacker's NXT message says, "DevilDave is a plunker" or something like that. Perhaps it was proving a point about the true autonomous nature of a blockchain's ability to resist tampering. Also, the hacker still has the 100BTC for their efforts.
Quote from: xeroc on August 17, 2014, 10:07:50 amAlso the hacker seems to have returned the NXT 50m ..http://www.reddit.com/r/NXT/comments/2ds1m0/hacker_begins_to_return_stolen_nxt/ok wow - why he's doing that? Was it like a penetration test ... ?
Also the hacker seems to have returned the NXT 50m ..http://www.reddit.com/r/NXT/comments/2ds1m0/hacker_begins_to_return_stolen_nxt/
Quote from: cass on August 17, 2014, 12:27:01 pmQuote from: xeroc on August 17, 2014, 10:07:50 amAlso the hacker seems to have returned the NXT 50m ..http://www.reddit.com/r/NXT/comments/2ds1m0/hacker_begins_to_return_stolen_nxt/ok wow - why he's doing that? Was it like a penetration test ... ?One of the hacker's NXT message says, "DevilDave is a plunker" or something like that. Perhaps it was proving a point about the true autonomous nature of a blockchain's ability to resist tampering. Also, the hacker still has the 100BTC for their efforts.
Quote from: lucky331 on August 17, 2014, 02:38:42 amQuote from: tonyk on August 16, 2014, 10:24:48 pmI am personally more intrigued which NXT chain are the other exchanges running, especially btc38. Anybody depositing any NXT on btc38 in last hours?the fuck? i thought there was no roll back... going to the nxt forum now..It is not roll back, it is a forks now. Very cool ones tho. I have been playing with them with last $1 on NXT I have. You transfer on one fork and it appears on both. Very cool.
Quote from: tonyk on August 16, 2014, 10:24:48 pmI am personally more intrigued which NXT chain are the other exchanges running, especially btc38. Anybody depositing any NXT on btc38 in last hours?the fuck? i thought there was no roll back... going to the nxt forum now..
I am personally more intrigued which NXT chain are the other exchanges running, especially btc38. Anybody depositing any NXT on btc38 in last hours?
Quote from: lucky331 on August 16, 2014, 09:47:49 pmQuote from: Riverhead on August 16, 2014, 01:45:00 pmI trade there now and then but don't leave any currency on the exchange. Nothing against BTer I just find it's a good policy in general. Also, I am transitioning some of my activity to Coinport because of their efforts for transparency.but what if they block withdrawals all of a sudden like gox? scary..Indeed, that would be scary. Thankfully there are plenty of other exchanges around.
Quote from: Riverhead on August 16, 2014, 01:45:00 pmI trade there now and then but don't leave any currency on the exchange. Nothing against BTer I just find it's a good policy in general. Also, I am transitioning some of my activity to Coinport because of their efforts for transparency.but what if they block withdrawals all of a sudden like gox? scary..
I trade there now and then but don't leave any currency on the exchange. Nothing against BTer I just find it's a good policy in general. Also, I am transitioning some of my activity to Coinport because of their efforts for transparency.
isn't bter losing 50m nxt a bit of a concern that the exchange will close down? who among here still trades at bter?
He just bought 100 BTC IOU's (the multigateway BTC )Transaction: 3943495016275895492 Asset: 4551058913252105307
Is this a joke?If the major exchanges change to an upgrade chain,the old chain will be worthless.So,the people don't really have a choice to stick to the old chain.
Quote from: Riverhead on August 15, 2014, 05:52:59 pmI guess the theory is that if a pool of people is diverse enough they'd never come to a political consenses. Something like what happened to Bter is a bit more cut and dried and easier to get consensus on.According to the roll back option,If bter gets broke at some day,need a lot of money to cover their ass.they can do this trick :Sell clients's 50Mil NXT to some guy name "Whale" for a good price,gets 100Mil USD.Whale paid 100Mil USD to bter through Bitcoin or whatever roll-back-disable ways,and gets 50Mil NXT.Now,BTER has 100Mil USD,Whale has 50 Mil NXT.But bter need to pay back the 50MIL NXT that belongs to its client.So,they can make up a hacker story,even plant some dialog of the negotiation,then ask for a roll back. if the so-called NXT community agrees,then Whale would lost 100 MIL USD,for nothing ,while bter gets 100 MIL USD.
I guess the theory is that if a pool of people is diverse enough they'd never come to a political consenses. Something like what happened to Bter is a bit more cut and dried and easier to get consensus on.
Quote from: Riverhead on August 15, 2014, 05:41:50 pmQuote from: kokojie on August 15, 2014, 04:18:01 pmThe developer will do the rollback with the blessing of majority of the forgers, it's basically a coordinated hard fork that is happening all the time in alt coins (and Bitcoin had one too).Thinking about this longer I get more concerned. Let's say someone donates $5M worth of X to Israel/Hamas (just picking a random conflict that most would be familiar with which also has strong opinions in both camps). Someone creates a thread on the Xtalk forum slamming the injustice about giving so much money to such horrible people. The community generally agrees, namely the forgers, and they decide to roll back that transaction and give the money to the other side instead.How many people are needed to effectively perpetrate a 51% attack on their own blockchain? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of an autonomous currency if a relatively small group of people (let's call them the coin's government) can make policy decisions based on political affiliation?Maybe there's no way around this because someone(s) need to maintain the code so it'll never be completely hands off.I think the general crypto community is smart enough to decide if it's something "clearly wrong and needs to be rolled back", (ie. code bug, hack of major exchange that will have real impact on all users)vs something that is "possibly wrong, but not our place to judge" (ie. funding israel/hamas, paying prostitutes, FBI raids etc...).
Quote from: kokojie on August 15, 2014, 04:18:01 pmThe developer will do the rollback with the blessing of majority of the forgers, it's basically a coordinated hard fork that is happening all the time in alt coins (and Bitcoin had one too).Thinking about this longer I get more concerned. Let's say someone donates $5M worth of X to Israel/Hamas (just picking a random conflict that most would be familiar with which also has strong opinions in both camps). Someone creates a thread on the Xtalk forum slamming the injustice about giving so much money to such horrible people. The community generally agrees, namely the forgers, and they decide to roll back that transaction and give the money to the other side instead.How many people are needed to effectively perpetrate a 51% attack on their own blockchain? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of an autonomous currency if a relatively small group of people (let's call them the coin's government) can make policy decisions based on political affiliation?Maybe there's no way around this because someone(s) need to maintain the code so it'll never be completely hands off.
The developer will do the rollback with the blessing of majority of the forgers, it's basically a coordinated hard fork that is happening all the time in alt coins (and Bitcoin had one too).
Quote from: Riverhead on August 15, 2014, 04:15:22 pmQuote from: kokojie on August 15, 2014, 04:13:23 pmQuote from: Riverhead on August 15, 2014, 04:09:49 pmHard to say. I think all the threats and pleas are for not. I would be really surprised if the hacker is even reading the thread anymore. 44M NXT and 100BTC in the hackers pocket. There is no incentive to negotiate anymore. IMHO the "negotiation" was just the hacker bilking them out of more money with false hope.Yeah, I can't believe BTER is so naive and sent 110 BTC without any guarantee. On the other hand, looks like a rollback is easier than I thought. I originally thought a lot of transactions will be affected. But that's not true, it looks like NxT developer will be able to simply target the hacker's address and rollback will only happen to the hacker's address. No one else will be affected by the rollback. So BTER basically just lost 110 BTC for nothing.So my take away from that is the blockchain is only as secure as your faith in the developer? Holy crap. I suppose the forgers will have to mine the new chain so it is decentralized I guess.The developer will do the rollback with the blessing of majority of the forgers, it's basically a coordinated hard fork that is happening all the time in alt coins (and Bitcoin had one too).
Quote from: kokojie on August 15, 2014, 04:13:23 pmQuote from: Riverhead on August 15, 2014, 04:09:49 pmHard to say. I think all the threats and pleas are for not. I would be really surprised if the hacker is even reading the thread anymore. 44M NXT and 100BTC in the hackers pocket. There is no incentive to negotiate anymore. IMHO the "negotiation" was just the hacker bilking them out of more money with false hope.Yeah, I can't believe BTER is so naive and sent 110 BTC without any guarantee. On the other hand, looks like a rollback is easier than I thought. I originally thought a lot of transactions will be affected. But that's not true, it looks like NxT developer will be able to simply target the hacker's address and rollback will only happen to the hacker's address. No one else will be affected by the rollback. So BTER basically just lost 110 BTC for nothing.So my take away from that is the blockchain is only as secure as your faith in the developer? Holy crap. I suppose the forgers will have to mine the new chain so it is decentralized I guess.
Quote from: Riverhead on August 15, 2014, 04:09:49 pmHard to say. I think all the threats and pleas are for not. I would be really surprised if the hacker is even reading the thread anymore. 44M NXT and 100BTC in the hackers pocket. There is no incentive to negotiate anymore. IMHO the "negotiation" was just the hacker bilking them out of more money with false hope.Yeah, I can't believe BTER is so naive and sent 110 BTC without any guarantee. On the other hand, looks like a rollback is easier than I thought. I originally thought a lot of transactions will be affected. But that's not true, it looks like NxT developer will be able to simply target the hacker's address and rollback will only happen to the hacker's address. No one else will be affected by the rollback. So BTER basically just lost 110 BTC for nothing.
Hard to say. I think all the threats and pleas are for not. I would be really surprised if the hacker is even reading the thread anymore. 44M NXT and 100BTC in the hackers pocket. There is no incentive to negotiate anymore. IMHO the "negotiation" was just the hacker bilking them out of more money with false hope.
Quote from: currencydebt on August 15, 2014, 03:33:23 pmAm I understanding this right, bter and the hacker made a deal, bter sent them 100 bitcoins and the hacker was supposed to then be honest and give back all the nxt?yes, and the he disappeared. First it seemed everything would work out nicely. Sorry for bter!
Am I understanding this right, bter and the hacker made a deal, bter sent them 100 bitcoins and the hacker was supposed to then be honest and give back all the nxt?
Message: Deal is off. Good night.
Quote from: luckybit on August 15, 2014, 02:51:11 pmIf we own NXT on Bitshares then it's worth a certain amount in XTS which then gets accepted in exchange for NXT via some sort of API level connection to Counterparty or Vennd. Someone redeems the IOU and then the BTSX are represented on Counterparty as an IOU which gets sold for NXT and transferred to the owner on the Bitshares chain. On the Bitshares X chain you would lock it to your NXT address and the market asset NXT would allow us to trade on the Bitshares X exchange.This is important because we need the ability to hedge on the success of Bitshares X by buying NXT when people panic sell it.What's the end game here? Trade NXT without a centralized exchange?
If we own NXT on Bitshares then it's worth a certain amount in XTS which then gets accepted in exchange for NXT via some sort of API level connection to Counterparty or Vennd. Someone redeems the IOU and then the BTSX are represented on Counterparty as an IOU which gets sold for NXT and transferred to the owner on the Bitshares chain. On the Bitshares X chain you would lock it to your NXT address and the market asset NXT would allow us to trade on the Bitshares X exchange.This is important because we need the ability to hedge on the success of Bitshares X by buying NXT when people panic sell it.
https://nxtblocks.info/#section/blockexplorer_messagesstreet justice
Quote from: kokojie on August 15, 2014, 03:13:57 pmThe one thing I'd like to know is why did BTER keep 50m NxT in a hot wallet? surely NxT can be kept in a cold wallet? is this something special about NxT? or is BTER keeping everything they have in a hot wallet?ok, I found this:https://bter.com/article/968so looks like NxT was not on the list of coins that are being kept in a cold wallet, the only thing I don't understand is ... why?
The one thing I'd like to know is why did BTER keep 50m NxT in a hot wallet? surely NxT can be kept in a cold wallet? is this something special about NxT? or is BTER keeping everything they have in a hot wallet?
Perhaps. I personally would have been dumping NXT for more BTSX and I would have expected others holding NXT to do the same. But yes perhaps the implications are bigger.
Quote from: tonyk on August 15, 2014, 02:21:53 pmQuote from: Empirical1 on August 15, 2014, 02:06:13 pmVery good for BTSX obv.Cannot disagree more!Ya, large thefts are bad PR. The people sitting on the fence or the sidelines don't distinguish the details of which product or how it was taken. They just read, "$1.7M USD worth of BTC like money stolen".
Quote from: Empirical1 on August 15, 2014, 02:06:13 pmVery good for BTSX obv.Cannot disagree more!
Very good for BTSX obv.
This is worth a read and maybe following. It's the NXT thread on to rollback or not to rollback. Not for the feint of heart. I also agree with CLains: this is no way to win. Really it could have just as easily been BTSX.https://nxtforum.org/news-and-announcements/roll-back-bter-hack-of-50m-nxt/?allWhy turn NXT into an IOU on Bitshares X? Not disagreeing just not sure what it means.
This is a huge amount. I feel sorry for them.https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=740147.0
I feel really bad for Bter, it is my favorite exchange atm. Terrible news for NXT as well. No fun winning like this
Quote from: kokojie on August 15, 2014, 01:48:45 pmQuote from: Riverhead on August 15, 2014, 01:40:50 pmQuote from: kokojie on August 15, 2014, 01:35:11 pmThis is good news, may trigger a NxT sell off, and BTSX will take the #1 market cap spot for p2p asset market.Though I wonder what is our policy if something like this happens? ie. if 1 billion BTSX stolen from bter, do we rollback or not rollback?NO ROLLBACKS!1) Even in this instance the flaw was not with NXT2) From the of theft to the time of rollback there will be thousands of transactions that'll either have to be applied to the fork or lost.It would be a nightmare.But that would be a small price to pay? in order to not let a hacker control 25% of BTSX. The thousands of reversed transactions can be sorted out afterwards, and fully compensated by the exchange. This would be the "moral" choice I believe.I think they only control 5%. I would have dumped a truck myself but bter not accepting deposits obv nor cryptsy it seems.Very good for BTSX obv.
Quote from: Riverhead on August 15, 2014, 01:40:50 pmQuote from: kokojie on August 15, 2014, 01:35:11 pmThis is good news, may trigger a NxT sell off, and BTSX will take the #1 market cap spot for p2p asset market.Though I wonder what is our policy if something like this happens? ie. if 1 billion BTSX stolen from bter, do we rollback or not rollback?NO ROLLBACKS!1) Even in this instance the flaw was not with NXT2) From the of theft to the time of rollback there will be thousands of transactions that'll either have to be applied to the fork or lost.It would be a nightmare.But that would be a small price to pay? in order to not let a hacker control 25% of BTSX. The thousands of reversed transactions can be sorted out afterwards, and fully compensated by the exchange. This would be the "moral" choice I believe.
Quote from: kokojie on August 15, 2014, 01:35:11 pmThis is good news, may trigger a NxT sell off, and BTSX will take the #1 market cap spot for p2p asset market.Though I wonder what is our policy if something like this happens? ie. if 1 billion BTSX stolen from bter, do we rollback or not rollback?NO ROLLBACKS!1) Even in this instance the flaw was not with NXT2) From the of theft to the time of rollback there will be thousands of transactions that'll either have to be applied to the fork or lost.It would be a nightmare.
This is good news, may trigger a NxT sell off, and BTSX will take the #1 market cap spot for p2p asset market.Though I wonder what is our policy if something like this happens? ie. if 1 billion BTSX stolen from bter, do we rollback or not rollback?