To the point. NXT since then has done a tremendous progress for the non tech guys like me and what I really like about them is that they have almost daily a market update report. They talk about prices of alts, NXT price speculation, graphs etc...Wouldn't make sense at the moment as the product is not yet released. Once we have product, the eco and tech talk will for sure start by its own :-)
Can we do something similar here?
It would be nice if some experienced crypto investors illuminate the rest of us about what they think, how they value especially PTS/AGS, future DACs but also other altcoins that pop out all the time. Apparently this community has a lot of "geniuses" and it would be very nice to hear their thoughts about the market on a regular basis.- Ehm, .. bitshares is not meant to be an altcoin, as it will *not* be a currency!
Wouldn't make sense at the moment as the product is not yet released. Once we have product, the eco and tech talk will for sure start by its own :-)
I am a member here from the beginning and I completely missed the argument that 1 PTS = 1.3 BTS and 1 AGS = 3.33 BTS (I wasn't visiting every single day) and I took serious losses because of that.
NXT in their thread talk about NXT price trends and many other altcoins. Why should I be obliged to go look at their thread and read the thoughts of people I "don't know" instead of listen to the thoughts of people I "know" from this community?
In the end of the day this is also MARKETING!! Try to protect your investors with transparency and honest thoughts!
I disagree! Even if PTS is not an altcoin it is a share with tradable value. It would be very nice if there was a sticky thread from the beginning talking about that value. I am a member here from the beginning and I completely missed the argument that 1 PTS = 1.3 BTS and 1 AGS = 3.33 BTS (I wasn't visiting every single day) and I took serious losses because of that. I have also missed the argument that after the snapshot everyone would sell their PTS and instead I kept on buying... Most will say " that's your problem you didn't make proper research" but the NXT community "protects" their investors with this market update thread. They don't have to go around the whole forum to look around for information and make their judgments. If there was a thread back then and most of the people were saying the same things I wouldn't have made these mistakes.For PTS we sure should set this up .. you can go for it! For BTS it doesn't make sense as BTS do not have value yet.
BM, Stan and others, including you Xeroc, to me are very respectable voices and I take now very seriously every single small comment you guys make!Thanks for your trust, however I am just a small part of this community. No a developer. I am helping out in my spare time when I can. Nothing too special.
I think that we should start the market update thread as soon as possible in order to protect long term investors like me for future losses like that. The "company" or the "investors" or the "community" should share their thoughts regarding prices and future values and market trends. This is not like anybody has insight information or something. It is collaboration of ideas for the most important part of the whole investment, that is the shares price!+5%
NXT in their thread talk about NXT price trends and many other altcoins. Why should I be obliged to go look at their thread and read the thoughts of people I "don't know" instead of listen to the thoughts of people I "know" from this community?I like the idea of having trusted friends of the community chat about market prices ..
In the end of the day this is also MARKETING!! Try to protect your investors with transparency and honest thoughts!
I could easily take a break from my work for 1 year and to be honest the way the market see BTS so far I don't think this will happen any time soon... :( :( :(. A market report update is essential!There's a hole thread dedicated to that "issue"
Do you know where the thread that does the equivalence math between the various shares is ? I've always been meaning to do the math out on paper but never got around to it. I'd like to see it worked out.Checkout:
People's opinions on coins are pretty much going to follow their holdings and they're going to say what they wish others to believe. I am not sure there is much value in that. And if you stick with the guys on here, they'll just tell you PTS is great value and to buy it up. What other answer is there ?That's probably true for Bitcointalk. I am pretty sure people in here are more serious! (That might change once bitshares products is successful)
However I do agree with you about discussion! This is why we need an off-topic forum that is not buried at the bottom in a discouraging manner. You could post your market talk thread and ask for opinions.There's an Economics subforum:
For PTS we sure should set this up .. you can go for it! For BTS it doesn't make sense as BTS do not have value yet.
Sorry for your loss.. However, the "sell after snapshot" was not an agreement. It was a consequence of the snapshot and will happen over and over again after each snapshot! Afair BM announced this also on LTB (http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/caution-watch-for-falling-pts)
For PTS we sure should set this up .. you can go for it!. After my amazing performance in PTS trading I think I am the worst person to start this thread ;)... Someone else more experienced should start it and pin the thread so it always comes on top!
If there was a specific thread back then for the price speculation and this article was posted many people would have been protected. I do not follow LTB...I only follow this forum. There is no much time to follow everything unfortunately...However, you can see it as follows: You didnt really loose money but got shares in the snapshot. The only thing "lost" is the trading opportunity making some EXTRA bucks against those uninformed.
After my amazing performance in PTS trading I think I am the worst person to start this thread ;)... Someone else more experienced should start it and pin the thread so it always comes on top!Why not change the topic-title and let Amazon move+sticky this thread.
I speculated for long enough. Bigger players than you or me are manipulating it. The wisest thing I did was to sell all my crap coins and bet on Bitshares.
It would be very nice if there was a sticky thread from the beginning talking about that value. I am a member here from the beginning and I completely missed the argument that 1 PTS = 1.3 BTS and 1 AGS = 3.33 BTS (I wasn't visiting every single day) and I took serious losses because of that.
...
In the end of the day this is also MARKETING!! Try to protect your investors with transparency and honest thoughts!
Angleshares value in PTS: 2.133 AGS/PTS = 9.50 USD. Total donations today: 2,343.996 PTS = 47,770.64 USD.
Angleshares value in BTC: 80.825 AGS/BTC = 9.28 USD. Total donations today: 61.862 BTC = 46,693.44 USD.
That's a total funding of 94,464.08 USD on day one! Good job!
Folks who moved from PTS/BTC to AGS today more than doubled their stake in BitShares and subsequent DACs.
I wonder how long that deal will hold up...
"...And we're goin' to Surf City, 'cause it's two to one"
From coinmarketcap:
10 NeutrinoCoin $ 12,174,444 $ 0.057901 210,264,208 NTR $ 14,797 +1132.15 %
Can someone alert me the next time they see something out of the blue potentially about to explode like this? thanks.
I saw this too and was left scratching my head.
I think that the privacy thing is taking off. People saw Darkcoin skyrocket and so this innovation is very appealing. I didn't quite get a chance to read everything on how neutroncoin is different in their approach to anonymity, but I have to agree their website did a good job explaining it.
Personally I think BTC has enough privacy and fail to see privacy alone as enough innovation. It is becoming something of a standard of 2nd generation altcoins. Darkcoin did a great job marketing.
Just like Auracoin (sp?) spawned a ton of other geographical airdrops. None were as successful as Auracoin and now none of that family of coins are particularly special. I have a feeling something similar will happen to darkcoin etc.
It would be very nice if there was a sticky thread from the beginning talking about that value. I am a member here from the beginning and I completely missed the argument that 1 PTS = 1.3 BTS and 1 AGS = 3.33 BTS (I wasn't visiting every single day) and I took serious losses because of that.
...
In the end of the day this is also MARKETING!! Try to protect your investors with transparency and honest thoughts!
That brings back great memories from January 1, the first day of AGS donations:Angleshares value in PTS: 2.133 AGS/PTS = 9.50 USD. Total donations today: 2,343.996 PTS = 47,770.64 USD.
Angleshares value in BTC: 80.825 AGS/BTC = 9.28 USD. Total donations today: 61.862 BTC = 46,693.44 USD.
That's a total funding of 94,464.08 USD on day one! Good job!
Folks who moved from PTS/BTC to AGS today more than doubled their stake in BitShares and subsequent DACs.
I wonder how long that deal will hold up...
"...And we're goin' to Surf City, 'cause it's two to one"Now we are seeing much bigger ratios than the Beach Boys once sang about.
Staggering ratios!
And there is less risk now than there was then!
Think of how many problems have been solved.
Think of how much stronger our underlying tech base is today.
How much more flexible and robust and full-featured it has become.
All the DACs in obvious parallel development by many talented, independent, self-motivated developers.
And BitShares XT operating with scores of examples posted daily.
If people were that excited on January 2nd, how can it be anything but blowing their minds now?
Humans are funny creatures.
A ten week delay to make a flurry of critical innovations
completely changes their calibration of what constitutes outstanding performance.
despite daily improvements
and triumphant breakthroughs
and videos and interviews and direct-access mumbles.
The pessimists are letting 5 to 1 and even greater opportunities slip away to the optimists.
But you, the strong, the patient, the informed and therefore the optimistic
will prevail and prosper.
You deserve it.
:)
It would be very nice if there was a sticky thread from the beginning talking about that value. I am a member here from the beginning and I completely missed the argument that 1 PTS = 1.3 BTS and 1 AGS = 3.33 BTS (I wasn't visiting every single day) and I took serious losses because of that.
...
In the end of the day this is also MARKETING!! Try to protect your investors with transparency and honest thoughts!
That brings back great memories from January 1, the first day of AGS donations:Angleshares value in PTS: 2.133 AGS/PTS = 9.50 USD. Total donations today: 2,343.996 PTS = 47,770.64 USD.
Angleshares value in BTC: 80.825 AGS/BTC = 9.28 USD. Total donations today: 61.862 BTC = 46,693.44 USD.
That's a total funding of 94,464.08 USD on day one! Good job!
Folks who moved from PTS/BTC to AGS today more than doubled their stake in BitShares and subsequent DACs.
I wonder how long that deal will hold up...
"...And we're goin' to Surf City, 'cause it's two to one"Now we are seeing much bigger ratios than the Beach Boys once sang about.
Staggering ratios!
And there is less risk now than there was then!
Think of how many problems have been solved.
Think of how much stronger our underlying tech base is today.
How much more flexible and robust and full-featured it has become.
All the DACs in obvious parallel development by many talented, independent, self-motivated developers.
And BitShares XT operating with scores of examples posted daily.
If people were that excited on January 2nd, how can it be anything but blowing their minds now?
Humans are funny creatures.
A ten week delay to make a flurry of critical innovations
completely changes their calibration of what constitutes outstanding performance.
despite daily improvements
and triumphant breakthroughs
and videos and interviews and direct-access mumbles.
The pessimists are letting 5 to 1 and even greater opportunities slip away to the optimists.
But you, the strong, the patient, the informed and therefore the optimistic
will prevail and prosper.
You deserve it.
:)
Pretty sure "Surf City" is Jan and Dean, not The Beach Boys. ;)
Plus 2 weeks now,we wait XTS FOT 1/4 OF A YEAR!Very Suck;;;; WTF exactly XTS be liquid , you have been talking soon soon soon for a long time,we are lack of confidence right now.And due to the fork issue in the recent dry run test,i guess we have to wait until the end of the summer,damn.i will no longer support I3 anymore,not a liar company,but a ill management company.
It would be very nice if there was a sticky thread from the beginning talking about that value. I am a member here from the beginning and I completely missed the argument that 1 PTS = 1.3 BTS and 1 AGS = 3.33 BTS (I wasn't visiting every single day) and I took serious losses because of that.
...
In the end of the day this is also MARKETING!! Try to protect your investors with transparency and honest thoughts!
That brings back great memories from January 1, the first day of AGS donations:Angleshares value in PTS: 2.133 AGS/PTS = 9.50 USD. Total donations today: 2,343.996 PTS = 47,770.64 USD.
Angleshares value in BTC: 80.825 AGS/BTC = 9.28 USD. Total donations today: 61.862 BTC = 46,693.44 USD.
That's a total funding of 94,464.08 USD on day one! Good job!
Folks who moved from PTS/BTC to AGS today more than doubled their stake in BitShares and subsequent DACs.
I wonder how long that deal will hold up...
"...And we're goin' to Surf City, 'cause it's two to one"Now we are seeing much bigger ratios than the Beach Boys once sang about.
Staggering ratios!
And there is less risk now than there was then!
Think of how many problems have been solved.
Think of how much stronger our underlying tech base is today.
How much more flexible and robust and full-featured it has become.
All the DACs in obvious parallel development by many talented, independent, self-motivated developers.
And BitShares XT operating with scores of examples posted daily.
If people were that excited on January 2nd, how can it be anything but blowing their minds now?
Humans are funny creatures.
A ten week delay to make a flurry of critical innovations
completely changes their calibration of what constitutes outstanding performance.
despite daily improvements
and triumphant breakthroughs
and videos and interviews and direct-access mumbles.
The pessimists are letting 5 to 1 and even greater opportunities slip away to the optimists.
But you, the strong, the patient, the informed and therefore the optimistic
will prevail and prosper.
You deserve it.
:)
So you mean we have to wait until the end of the summer,right?If we don't have that patience we are a bad investor,right?Plus 2 weeks now,we wait XTS FOT 1/4 OF A YEAR!Very Suck;;;; WTF exactly XTS be liquid , you have been talking soon soon soon for a long time,we are lack of confidence right now.And due to the fork issue in the recent dry run test,i guess we have to wait until the end of the summer,damn.i will no longer support I3 anymore,not a liar company,but a ill management company.
It would be very nice if there was a sticky thread from the beginning talking about that value. I am a member here from the beginning and I completely missed the argument that 1 PTS = 1.3 BTS and 1 AGS = 3.33 BTS (I wasn't visiting every single day) and I took serious losses because of that.
...
In the end of the day this is also MARKETING!! Try to protect your investors with transparency and honest thoughts!
That brings back great memories from January 1, the first day of AGS donations:Angleshares value in PTS: 2.133 AGS/PTS = 9.50 USD. Total donations today: 2,343.996 PTS = 47,770.64 USD.
Angleshares value in BTC: 80.825 AGS/BTC = 9.28 USD. Total donations today: 61.862 BTC = 46,693.44 USD.
That's a total funding of 94,464.08 USD on day one! Good job!
Folks who moved from PTS/BTC to AGS today more than doubled their stake in BitShares and subsequent DACs.
I wonder how long that deal will hold up...
"...And we're goin' to Surf City, 'cause it's two to one"Now we are seeing much bigger ratios than the Beach Boys once sang about.
Staggering ratios!
And there is less risk now than there was then!
Think of how many problems have been solved.
Think of how much stronger our underlying tech base is today.
How much more flexible and robust and full-featured it has become.
All the DACs in obvious parallel development by many talented, independent, self-motivated developers.
And BitShares XT operating with scores of examples posted daily.
If people were that excited on January 2nd, how can it be anything but blowing their minds now?
Humans are funny creatures.
A ten week delay to make a flurry of critical innovations
completely changes their calibration of what constitutes outstanding performance.
despite daily improvements
and triumphant breakthroughs
and videos and interviews and direct-access mumbles.
The pessimists are letting 5 to 1 and even greater opportunities slip away to the optimists.
But you, the strong, the patient, the informed and therefore the optimistic
will prevail and prosper.
You deserve it.
:)
The ten week reference was the time it took us to get back to where we thought we would be on March 15th - ready to start doing the testing you see us doing.In those 10 weeks we invented DPOS.
And what DPOS will do for this industry is far more than reliably eliminate wasteful mining. It gives control back to the little guy - produces genuine decentralization - permits grass-roots counter attacks - and most importantly, raises up 101 elected champions for each DAC - champions that will have to promote that DAC and grow its value to stay elected. Champions that will have the financial incentive to compete fiercely for a delegate slot and the financial resources to have genuine influence on how that DAC develops.
This is freaking huge. And well worth the 10 week delay. :)
That's why we hope people understand the difference between 10 weeks of priceless innovation and 10 weeks of aimless wandering. Those who do will get the deserved rewards. Those who don't will also get what they deserve.
Come on ,business is business,especially the crypto world,time is money.
We don't need your gaudy words to inspire our confidence,we need product,a real release product,so give us a time frame, even a vague one.
The ten week reference was the time it took us to get back to where we thought we would be on March 15th - ready to start doing the testing you see us doing.In those 10 weeks we invented DPOS.
And what DPOS will do for this industry is far more than reliably eliminate wasteful mining. It gives control back to the little guy - produces genuine decentralization - permits grass-roots counter attacks - and most importantly, raises up 101 elected champions for each DAC - champions that will have to promote that DAC and grow its value to stay elected. Champions that will have the financial incentive to compete fiercely for a delegate slot and the financial resources to have genuine influence on how that DAC develops.
This is freaking huge. And well worth the 10 week delay. :)
[/size]That's why we hope people understand the difference between 10 weeks of priceless innovation and 10 weeks of aimless wandering. Those who do will get the deserved rewards. Those who don't will also get what they deserve.
So you mean we have to wait until the end of the summer,right?If we don't have that patience we are a bad investor,right?
The ten week reference was the time it took us to get back to where we thought we would be on March 15th - ready to start doing the testing you see us doing.In those 10 weeks we invented DPOS.
And what DPOS will do for this industry is far more than reliably eliminate wasteful mining. It gives control back to the little guy - produces genuine decentralization - permits grass-roots counter attacks - and most importantly, raises up 101 elected champions for each DAC - champions that will have to promote that DAC and grow its value to stay elected. Champions that will have the financial incentive to compete fiercely for a delegate slot and the financial resources to have genuine influence on how that DAC develops.
This is freaking huge. And well worth the 10 week delay. :)
That's why we hope people understand the difference between 10 weeks of priceless innovation and 10 weeks of aimless wandering. Those who do will get the deserved rewards. Those who don't will also get what they deserve.
FWIW the forking issues you said would delay us all summer just got fixed by dan and eric
If you don't understand what we are doing, don't know what it takes, and are unable to correctly evaluate our status, you should not be investing.
FWIW the forking issues you said would delay us all summer just got fixed by dan and eric
Absolutely fantastic! +5%
A couple of months it was way too buggy and non friendly for non tech guys and their progress now is outstanding...
"The question is did we missed that boat and initial investors will soon start to dump at some point"? Or do you guys believe that it will overtake litecoin and could reach the 1/2 bil market cap?
A couple of months it was way too buggy and non friendly for non tech guys and their progress now is outstanding...
"The question is did we missed that boat and initial investors will soon start to dump at some point"? Or do you guys believe that it will overtake litecoin and could reach the 1/2 bil market cap?
NXT is a currency first of all, with added on features. Their AE is pretty cool. It is not something that can't be easily overtaken. NXT also isn't as successful as people think it is. Look at Cryptsy volumes.
CRYPT/BTC CryptCoin 1012 BTC
LTC/BTC LiteCoin 181 BTC
DRK/BTC DarkCoin 176 BTC
DOGE/BTC Dogecoin 151 BTC
POT/BTC PotCoin 67.5 BTC
NXT/BTC Nxt 47.0 BTC
So Dogecoin has 3x the volume (unspecified timeframe) and even PotCoin beats NXT.
A couple of months it was way too buggy and non friendly for non tech guys and their progress now is outstanding...
"The question is did we missed that boat and initial investors will soon start to dump at some point"? Or do you guys believe that it will overtake litecoin and could reach the 1/2 bil market cap?
NXT is a currency first of all, with added on features. Their AE is pretty cool. It is not something that can't be easily overtaken. NXT also isn't as successful as people think it is. Look at Cryptsy volumes.
CRYPT/BTC CryptCoin 1012 BTC
LTC/BTC LiteCoin 181 BTC
DRK/BTC DarkCoin 176 BTC
DOGE/BTC Dogecoin 151 BTC
POT/BTC PotCoin 67.5 BTC
NXT/BTC Nxt 47.0 BTC
So Dogecoin has 3x the volume (unspecified timeframe) and even PotCoin beats NXT.
I wish coinmarketcap would adjust NXT's supply to exclude the unclaimed genesis addresses. They did adjust Ripple's supply, after all. Anyone want to send them that suggestion? Use words like "misleading" and "would be more accurate"
Does NEM has potential? It starts to appear having high volume on their AE. Can someone explain simply how to claim the NEM share? If I buy the token on the exchange is there a deadline I should send something to someone?
Despite many times the frustration of many members here about the delays of I3 I really think that we are one of the best communities out there. And if we stop bitching about delays, stop with the unnecessary negativity and we all collaborate as we can, I really think we can overtake all the other coins...
Since I have been burned quite a few times with bad trading and I value very much your opinions can you please share some thoughts...
Do you guys think this is a good time to buy 1-2 bitcoins?
Do you think we will have any increase to $800 shortly?
I want to do some short term trading in bitcoin. All funds are in AGS by now so I need some liquidity diversification...
How do you think the auction of the FBI coins will affect the price?
When is this auction taking place anyway? I thought that all 30,000 BTCs would be auctioned on the 25th June but I might misunderstood...
4.I predict that after the end of AGS very soon after, they will introduce us the first DAC ;)BitShares Lotto, BitShares DNS, BitShares ME, BitShares Music
4. Any Euth investors around? If yes, kiss them good bye. If you get almost all of your money back after 12-15mo you should consider yourself extremely lucky and not try this again!My guess is he is talking about "eth"/"ether"/ethereum" investors ..
I wish coinmarketcap would adjust NXT's supply to exclude the unclaimed genesis addresses.
Here are my (arguably useless thoughts).
1.NXT is the next best thing after Bitshares (BTSX in particular). NXT has been in down-ward spiral for well over a month. Any actual market functionality by BTSX will send NXT if not at, pretty close to 0.000025... MHO
2.If you gonna invest real $, there is a good chance BTC will go down below $500/BTC. Do you want to wait for that opportunity to buy BTSX? I honestly do not know....
I personally liquidated all my crypto hedges (NXT, NEM, Qora... you name it) to go all in BTSX, and can afford to patiently wait BTC to go down, so I can go USD ->BTC -> BTSX
3.Putting all eggs in one basket is not recommended strategy, but if you consider crypto currency as just one egg in your basket, I find it not too risky too put all my money on that one thing I see most viable.
4. Any Euth investors around? If yes, kiss them good bye. If you get almost all of your money back after 12-15mo you should consider yourself extremely lucky and not try this again!
08/13/2014 5:00 pm CST
Here are my (arguably useless thoughts).
1.NXT is the next best thing after Bitshares (BTSX in particular). NXT has been in down-ward spiral for well over a month. Any actual market functionality by BTSX will send NXT if not at, pretty close to 0.000025... MHO
2.If you gonna invest real $, there is a good chance BTC will go down below $500/BTC. Do you want to wait for that opportunity to buy BTSX? I honestly do not know....
I personally liquidated all my crypto hedges (NXT, NEM, Qora... you name it) to go all in BTSX, and can afford to patiently wait BTC to go down, so I can go USD ->BTC -> BTSX
3.Putting all eggs in one basket is not recommended strategy, but if you consider crypto currency as just one egg in your basket, I find it not too risky too put all my money on that one thing I see most viable.
4. Any Euth investors around? If yes, kiss them good bye. If you get almost all of your money back after 12-15mo you should consider yourself extremely lucky and not try this again!
I wish coinmarketcap would adjust NXT's supply to exclude the unclaimed genesis addresses.
Do we have such data for BTSX?
I wish coinmarketcap would adjust NXT's supply to exclude the unclaimed genesis addresses.
Do we have such data for BTSX?
4. Any Euth investors around? If yes, kiss them good bye. If you get almost all of your money back after 12-15mo you should consider yourself extremely lucky and not try this again!My guess is he is talking about "eth"/"ether"/ethereum" investors ..
besides that .. I can pretty much understand you! +5%
Good post. However I don't think Maidsafe should be ignored..
3.Putting all eggs in one basket is not recommended strategy, but if you consider crypto currency as just one egg in your basket, I find it not too risky too put all my money on that one thing I see most viable.
3.Putting all eggs in one basket is not recommended strategy, but if you consider crypto currency as just one egg in your basket, I find it not too risky too put all my money on that one thing I see most viable.
I went with a more balanced BTSX/PTS approach. Although there is no reason you can't shift back and forth between them depending on the situation. For example we know there is a double snapshot coming Aug 21st. One has to think how likely is it that BTSX is going to move a lot between now and the 22nd. It could make sense to shift your balance from BTSX to PTS, let the snapshot happen, then back to BTSX where it's warm and safe.
I'm sure this strategy isn't even remotely novel to anyone here :) .
Signed,
Cpt. Obvious
3.Putting all eggs in one basket is not recommended strategy, but if you consider crypto currency as just one egg in your basket, I find it not too risky too put all my money on that one thing I see most viable.
I went with a more balanced BTSX/PTS approach. Although there is no reason you can't shift back and forth between them depending on the situation. For example we know there is a double snapshot coming Aug 21st. One has to think how likely is it that BTSX is going to move a lot between now and the 22nd. It could make sense to shift your balance from BTSX to PTS, let the snapshot happen, then back to BTSX where it's warm and safe.
I'm sure this strategy isn't even remotely novel to anyone here :) .
Signed,
Cpt. Obvious
Hopefully it means we have a lot of bulls and investors who are independent of BTC.What's BTC? :P
3.Putting all eggs in one basket is not recommended strategy, but if you consider crypto currency as just one egg in your basket, I find it not too risky too put all my money on that one thing I see most viable.
I went with a more balanced BTSX/PTS approach. Although there is no reason you can't shift back and forth between them depending on the situation. For example we know there is a double snapshot coming Aug 21st. One has to think how likely is it that BTSX is going to move a lot between now and the 22nd. It could make sense to shift your balance from BTSX to PTS, let the snapshot happen, then back to BTSX where it's warm and safe.
I'm sure this strategy isn't even remotely novel to anyone here :) .
Signed,
Cpt. Obvious
Hopefully it means we have a lot of bulls and investors who are independent of BTC.What's BTC? :P
... study more history at school. :)I have a dream .. that one day ... they teach
... study more history at school. :)I have a dream .. that one day ... they teachblockchainDPOS in school :)
// edit: fixed typo :P
3.Putting all eggs in one basket is not recommended strategy, but if you consider crypto currency as just one egg in your basket, I find it not too risky too put all my money on that one thing I see most viable.
I went with a more balanced BTSX/PTS approach. Although there is no reason you can't shift back and forth between them depending on the situation. For example we know there is a double snapshot coming Aug 21st. One has to think how likely is it that BTSX is going to move a lot between now and the 22nd. It could make sense to shift your balance from BTSX to PTS, let the snapshot happen, then back to BTSX where it's warm and safe.
I'm sure this strategy isn't even remotely novel to anyone here :) .
Signed,
Cpt. Obvious
3.Putting all eggs in one basket is not recommended strategy, but if you consider crypto currency as just one egg in your basket, I find it not too risky too put all my money on that one thing I see most viable.
I went with a more balanced BTSX/PTS approach. Although there is no reason you can't shift back and forth between them depending on the situation. For example we know there is a double snapshot coming Aug 21st. One has to think how likely is it that BTSX is going to move a lot between now and the 22nd. It could make sense to shift your balance from BTSX to PTS, let the snapshot happen, then back to BTSX where it's warm and safe.
I'm sure this strategy isn't even remotely novel to anyone here :) .
Signed,
Cpt. Obvious
But isn't PTS supposed to crash (in theory) after a snapshot? I would say it's a risky move and would also like to know why you think that wont happen (if you could explain of course)
It probably will go down to where it is now I'm thinking. It'll probably spike a bit right before the snapshot but my thinking is that anyone that wants PTS already has them so there isn't much reason for a big spike. Also how well these two DACs are received will determine the value of PTS a lot.
Although I said that was my strategy I'm having second thoughts :). PTS is stagnating before the snapshot more than I expected but BTSX has already had it's first value bump. I'm a bit reluctant to leave BTSX right now.
True, but as far as I can see, the only reason to get out of PTS is if one is extremely excited about BTSX and needs to pay for it somehow. Otherwise, why have people held it until now only to flake out the week of a dual snapshot?
True, but as far as I can see, the only reason to get out of PTS is if one is extremely excited about BTSX and needs to pay for it somehow. Otherwise, why have people held it until now only to flake out the week of a dual snapshot?1) Donate to AGS using PTS
True, but as far as I can see, the only reason to get out of PTS is if one is extremely excited about BTSX and needs to pay for it somehow. Otherwise, why have people held it until now only to flake out the week of a dual snapshot?1) Donate to AGS using PTS
2) wait for snapshot annoucment
3) sell pts when high
4) get your shares from AGS
5) buy low after snapshot
sounds reasonable to me
True, but as far as I can see, the only reason to get out of PTS is if one is extremely excited about BTSX and needs to pay for it somehow. Otherwise, why have people held it until now only to flake out the week of a dual snapshot?1) Donate to AGS using PTS
2) wait for snapshot annoucment
3) sell pts when high
4) get your shares from AGS
5) buy low after snapshot
sounds reasonable to me
True, but as far as I can see, the only reason to get out of PTS is if one is extremely excited about BTSX and needs to pay for it somehow. Otherwise, why have people held it until now only to flake out the week of a dual snapshot?
Because their PTS would/should achieve the maximum selling price right before the dual snapshot.
True, but as far as I can see, the only reason to get out of PTS is if one is extremely excited about BTSX and needs to pay for it somehow. Otherwise, why have people held it until now only to flake out the week of a dual snapshot?1) Donate to AGS using PTS
2) wait for snapshot annoucment
3) sell pts when high
4) get your shares from AGS
5) buy low after snapshot
sounds reasonable to me
That was reasonable when AGS existed. I'm talking about today, this week. Why would people sell PTS if not to buy BTSX?
You must teach me the trick to do both 1) and 3) and in that order ... :)Just wanted to give a reasoning for why people might not be holding!
so....with the coming snapshot any speculation about pts price?
personally i don't think it will go more than 0.0087 prior to snapshot. I have no opinion though about the price the days that will follow after...
All the same, I plan to load up on PTS, because all this interest in Bitshares X will be great marketing for the next round of BitShares DACs.
While BitsharesX has the spotlight and the glamour something like BitShares Domains and perhaps a gambling DAC could be silent and consistent income.
I had forgotten about that one. Makes your head spin.
While BitsharesX has the spotlight and the glamour something like BitShares Domains and perhaps a gambling DAC could be silent and consistent income.
Absolutely. And let's not forget BitShares Music, which has always been my favorite. If they ever get that thing off the ground, and if they beat Amazon and Apple into the crypto space, that one could be enormous.
I will give 1000 BTSX to anybody who gives me a good explanation why his/her PTS from before the end of the AGS donation period are not in the AGS fund already! (This prize has about $1,000,000 value in about 2-2,5 years in my estimation.)
The only way it makes sense is if you do not like one particular upcoming DAC and you want to sell them PTS shortly before its snapshot day and buy them after it. But which one don't you like? Music - great potential (even though I do not know if anybody is actually developing it). HackerFish is making the lottery (play) DAC into something great - not a simple casino but a platform for the casinos! Truthcoin is probably just a centralize business on a blockchain, but even so the potential market is in the hundred of millions or revenue....
PS
And sorry I will be the judge what I deem good explanation!
I do not like DAC A do not qualify!
Concrete example with numbers will increase your chances!
This offer is good for 5 days.
TheOnion
Just some of my arguments against:
1.You did not provide numbers... If you did you must expect the chance of 1 happening to be a)pretty high (>75% for the more realistic values of .'b') or b)the difference AGS:PTS to be pretty high.
2. Actually, I consider the chance of AGS>PTS bigger, if ever those two percentages do differ at any point/any DAC.
Got myself a dose of the PTS holders' buzz.
For me personally, the shares received due to my PTS holding in DNS&VOTE will be worth 0.00021 BTC / #shares per PT). Or about $0.11/# shares per PTS.
I think I am good at those levels.???
Unfortunately:
1.I did not have them at AGS donation end time
2.I do not hold the anymore.
So, you are ways from qualifying. This was a gig of my own that I came up with today. :)
[edit]
That being said - if you send me a 20 dollar bill, I will send you 1000 BTS -Just for the fame of being the guy who paid that much for a dollar. :)
But at least bitMusic will have in house exchange, rivaling the complexity of BTSX. Do not ask me why - the answer of course is -Because they can!
I promised to share my thoughts on the market when I have one. Well today I do.Agree on the IPO model. It has the downside of not knowing what you will get / at which market cap you buy in. Instead an ASG style fundraiser or normal bank style IPOs would make sense. For the latter you would have to valuate the company / nodes beforehand.
The topic is:
'BitShares Music'Short Version:
Sell, sell, sell... whenever you get your hands on any bishashares Music shares (called Notes) sell. At whatever price the poor buyer is offering; do not give him a chance to think twice!
Compared to bitMusic Notes, LTBcoin is a stroke of genius!
Long Version:
-Totally screwed or laughable IPO, depending on your point of view.
Let’s not talk about PTS/AGS holders – getting in 30 % of a worthless product is not much better than getting just 10%, I know getting 10% is insulting nevertheless.
The IPO is designed to follow all well-known path of ‘crypto space’ stupidity –Ethereum style, or ‘known number unknown quantity’ style IPO. In short you pay $5 for X number of shares, but you are totally unaware how many shares will be sold. With every passing day the new buyer get less number of shares per $5 but at least know how many other crazies have bought before them. The total number of crazies still remains unknown, as there may be many more coming after them.
If this is not enough, the wise DAC creators/founders not just keep the proceeds of the ipo, they also reward themselves with free shares (about 30% of the total DAC’s shares, never the less!)
-Suspicious business model and incentive structure.
-Well the IPO was the fun part, there the creators of this DAC just rob you in bright daylight and that is in a way honorable of them.
While they thought hard for their 30-35% free notes, in the business model we see that those Notes are not worth much. They entitle you to transactions fees… and that is pretty much it (well other than being a speculator and shorting musicUSDs at their own eXchange)
The other way to make money in this system are the following:
– You lend money to a promising musician, he promises to give you something back (or not) if he is a success. Way to enforce such promises are something that the ‘founders’ will have to think of… but that is for later.
-The 3rd way the system makes money is buy selling music- on $1 dollar sales here are the proposed ratios:
95% for the musician;
4% for the ‘founders’ ???? (as they have expenses for bandwidth, etc.)
1% transaction fees…
But at least bitMusic will have in house exchange, rivaling the complexity of BTSX. Do not ask me why - the answer of course is -Because they can!
I promised to share my thoughts on the market when I have one. Well today I do.Agree on the IPO model. It has the downside of not knowing what you will get / at which market cap you buy in. Instead an ASG style fundraiser or normal bank style IPOs would make sense. For the latter you would have to valuate the company / nodes beforehand.
The topic is:
'BitShares Music'Short Version:
Sell, sell, sell... whenever you get your hands on any bishashares Music shares (called Notes) sell. At whatever price the poor buyer is offering; do not give him a chance to think twice!
Compared to bitMusic Notes, LTBcoin is a stroke of genius!
Long Version:
-Totally screwed or laughable IPO, depending on your point of view.
Let’s not talk about PTS/AGS holders – getting in 30 % of a worthless product is not much better than getting just 10%, I know getting 10% is insulting nevertheless.
The IPO is designed to follow all well-known path of ‘crypto space’ stupidity –Ethereum style, or ‘known number unknown quantity’ style IPO. In short you pay $5 for X number of shares, but you are totally unaware how many shares will be sold. With every passing day the new buyer get less number of shares per $5 but at least know how many other crazies have bought before them. The total number of crazies still remains unknown, as there may be many more coming after them.
If this is not enough, the wise DAC creators/founders not just keep the proceeds of the ipo, they also reward themselves with free shares (about 30% of the total DAC’s shares, never the less!)
-Suspicious business model and incentive structure.
-Well the IPO was the fun part, there the creators of this DAC just rob you in bright daylight and that is in a way honorable of them.
While they thought hard for their 30-35% free notes, in the business model we see that those Notes are not worth much. They entitle you to transactions fees… and that is pretty much it (well other than being a speculator and shorting musicUSDs at their own eXchange)
The other way to make money in this system are the following:
– You lend money to a promising musician, he promises to give you something back (or not) if he is a success. Way to enforce such promises are something that the ‘founders’ will have to think of… but that is for later.
-The 3rd way the system makes money is buy selling music- on $1 dollar sales here are the proposed ratios:
95% for the musician;
4% for the ‘founders’ ???? (as they have expenses for bandwidth, etc.)
1% transaction fees…
But at least bitMusic will have in house exchange, rivaling the complexity of BTSX. Do not ask me why - the answer of course is -Because they can!
As for the 10%. That could have been more I agree. But no reason to act against the DAC or refuse it! Be grateful for what you get! No one has to honor anything. Its all a free market. If you think 10% is too low create or help create a competitor that honors more. All voluntary.
As for why nodes should be worth s.t.:
- Two types of tx fees: Normal transaction processing fees and a higher fee for buying music.
- You need bitUSD backed by nodes to buy music (whether creating an own bitUSD market on that chain is advisable I dont know).
If you criticize someone you should be able to say how you would make it better. What would be your business / monetization model?
let's see the details once cob reveals them
tony it is very entertaining to read you sarcastic posts (not kidding) but it would give your critique more weight if you can come up with an alternative plan...+5%
tony it is very entertaining to read you sarcastic posts (not kidding) but it would give your critique more weight if you can come up with an alternative plan...
But let us wait until we get something official! :)
But let us wait until we get something official! :)
Wise advice!
1) I think though it's kind of weird investors will put money in "notes" instead of investing in equity of the DAC.
2) The fact that 30% of all the notes will be hoarded by the centralized corporation behind it (and its founders), is kind of weird also. Let's say the DAC is worth 100 000 000$ at some point... The founders' stake will be worth 5M$ for a few months worth of work? Also they will get paid by the corporation running the whole thing (cumulating tx fees), and the corporation stake will be 25M$? (and it would be safe to assume the corporation behind it is owned and controlled by the founders). I might be wrong, but this scheme is created in a way that money will flow mostly in one direction: The founders.
I do understand the capitalism principle, and it seems very well applied here.
I might be wrong (and I really hope I am)
Investors will probably make a nice profit out of it, no doubt, I don't disagree with that. But it's a leap of faith, as they don't have any idea how many notes their investment entitle them to (as a percentage of the total investor's allowance).
One thing for sure, is that no matter how much the music DAC is worth (even just a few millions in market cap), a few stake holders (founders) will make a fortune. I guess that's the whole point of this scheme?
But let us wait until we get something official! :)
Wise advice!
1) I think though it's kind of weird investors will put money in "notes" instead of investing in equity of the DAC.
2) The fact that 30% of all the notes will be hoarded by the centralized corporation behind it (and its founders), is kind of weird also. Let's say the DAC is worth 100 000 000$ at some point... The founders' stake will be worth 5M$ for a few months worth of work? Also they will get paid by the corporation running the whole thing (cumulating tx fees), and the corporation stake will be 25M$? (and it would be safe to assume the corporation behind it is owned and controlled by the founders). I might be wrong, but this scheme is created in a way that money will flow mostly in one direction: The founders.
I do understand the capitalism principle, and it seems very well applied here.
I might be wrong (and I really hope I am)
Investors will probably make a nice profit out of it, no doubt, I don't disagree with that. But it's a leap of faith, as they don't have any idea how many notes their investment entitle them to (as a percentage of the total investor's allowance).
One thing for sure, is that no matter how much the music DAC is worth (even just a few millions in market cap), a few stake holders (founders) will make a fortune. I guess that's the whole point of this scheme?
Ug...this isn't a scheme and although I am not a fan of Ethereum itself the way they funded it was pretty damn well thought out. AGS, too, was very well thought out. As far as DACs having a core group with vested interest in it...that is not necessarily bad. Some people "hoard" what they think is valuable while others sell what they think is going to lose value. Please relax a bit on this "hoarding" stuff Chuck...we can go the complete opposite direction and complain about Pump and Dumps for the thousands of worthless altcoins each day, mined into existence and pumped onto newbies to syphon their hard earned Satoshis.
The wonderful thing about bitshares PTS is that YOU can go buy them and get a stake in all of these. Yeh, sure, the early adopters who took the risk will likely have a cheaper price in that stake than you, but I am sure you have a cheaper stake in other projects than others. Does that make it unfair? Or does it mean I didn't research enough to find those gems before they began to truly shine?
These are things worth considering. At risk of sounding like i'm kissing ass, Bytemaster and the I3 team--though not perfect--have always done their best to be open about the project, plans and the rollout. We are all wading in waters no human has ever seen before much less jumped into. Yet here we all are...so early in the game. Let's be happy about this fact and realize that there is literally a multitrillion dollar market out there for crypto once it reaches full adoption. It is a good idea to have a huge number of DACs that clone each other, offering competitive market alternatives and distribution models.
I am not for the one chain to rule them all concept, so I really like the idea of all systems that invite clones to compete with each other. This is especially true when talking about the long term value PTS brings to the equation. It is the lowest risk asset that will pay dividends in new companies that use the toolkit. How much better (and fairer) can that "scheme" be? Certainly more "noob" friendly than Bitcoin...and certainly more ethical than a bunch of miners mining "shit"coins, flipping them to Bitcoin holders and exiting stage left.
tony it is very entertaining to read you sarcastic posts (not kidding) but it would give your critique more weight if you can come up with an alternative plan...
For 9 mo. the 'FOUNDERS" came with nothing but schemes to get bigger part of the pie for themselves.
For 9 mo. the 'FOUNDERS" came with nothing but schemes to get bigger part of the pie for themselves.
Hopefully, it will turn out that they've been quite busy behind the scenes. Personally, I've always been more excited about BitShares Music than any other DAC. It could be the first DAC (aside from BTSX) to present something new to a potentially mass audience that doesn't know or care what a DAC is. Like others, I've been eagerly awaiting details. Until we get an official announcement, I think we shouldn't be jumping to too many conclusions. So far, I'll agree with you, Tony, that the IPO idea rubs me the wrong way, after all the money I've spent on AGS and PTS. There was a time when we were promised 50% of this DAC. That sort of promise, when people are spending money in anticipation of it, is important. BitShares Music or PeerTracks will not get another dime from me in its IPO. I've bought in heavily already, even if it's now a share of 20% and not 50%.
However, I remain very optimistic about BitShares Music. Maybe I don't need a share of 50%. If I own only some small fraction of 1%, then who knows, that could be worth a fortune. And the IPO could turn out to be a positive if that gives this business the resources to succeed. I'll be patient and see how this develops.
One more thing to consider: in this open source world, a DAC may need an IPO or fundraiser to cement its first-mover advantage. If a developer has blown his wad just to get the thing off the ground, and then someone else with more resources comes in and clones the thing right away, able to pour those resources into the next stage, then that first effort is at least partly wasted. But a first-mover with a big war chest can make it a lot harder for someone else to swoop in and compete at the same level. This helps to incentivize DAC development. Also, I have to guess that running BitShares Music will not be a low-maintenance operation. So I don't mind funding that to some degree.
I promised to share my thoughts on the market when I have one. Well today I do.I don't give any financial advise so can't comment on this.
The topic is:
'BitShares Music'Short Version:
Sell, sell, sell... whenever you get your hands on any bishashares Music shares (called Notes) sell. At whatever price the poor buyer is offering; do not give him a chance to think twice!
Let’s not talk about PTS/AGS holders – getting in 30 % of a worthless product is not much better than getting just 10%, I know getting 10% is insulting nevertheless.That is why on the 8th day the lawd invented forking. PeerTracks does not have a monopoly on the BitShares toolkit.
The IPO is designed to follow all well-known path of ‘crypto space’ stupidity –Ethereum style, or ‘known number unknown quantity’ style IPO. In short you pay $5 for X number of shares, but you are totally unaware how many shares will be sold. With every passing day the new buyer get less number of shares per $5 but at least know how many other crazies have bought before them. The total number of crazies still remains unknown, as there may be many more coming after them.If by stupidity you mean most successful crypto IPO yet. Then yes!
If this is not enough, the wise DAC creators/founders not just keep the proceeds of the ipo, they also reward themselves with free shares (about 30% of the total DAC’s shares, never the less!)Of course we are going to keep the proceeds. What do you think we would do? Give it to charity? We have an entire industry to revolutionize. We need all the funds we can get.
-Well the IPO was the fun part, there the creators of this DAC just rob you in bright daylight and that is in a way honorable of them.Yes, COB is taking around 2% of Notes. If it pleases you, I can just take all my bitcoin, send it to the Pre-Sale address so that it looks fair.
While they thought hard for their 30-35% free notes, in the business model we see that those Notes are not worth much. They entitle you to transactions fees… and that is pretty much it (well other than being a speculator and shorting musicUSDs at their own eXchange)
The other way to make money in this system are the following:This is wrong. I'm sorry if I wasn't more clear. We'll get to the secret sauce soon. Before we start the Pre-Sale of course.
– You lend money to a promising musician, he promises to give you something back (or not) if he is a success. Way to enforce such promises are something that the ‘founders’ will have to think of… but that is for later.
-The 3rd way the system makes money is buy selling music- on $1 dollar sales here are the proposed ratios:This is quote mining, cherry picking and a strawman.
95% for the musician;
4% for the ‘founders’ ???? (as they have expenses for bandwidth, etc.)
1% transaction fees…
keep in mind these are fictitious %s and #s for the sake of simplicity
If a song sells for 1 BitUSD (FROM the PeerTracks website), a couple of things happen.
I hope cob and crew gives the community some time to critique the plan before they make it final.. If a genius like bytemaster believes in full transparency and constantly getting people to attack his thoughts and plans, .. how arrogant do other people have to be if they believe they can get it right from the get-go? In all probability it is motivated as much by fear as arrogance.
We should observe not so much what their initial plan is, but how they respond and handle valid criticism. Wasnn't this a lesson from Shark Tank as well? But let us wait until we get something official! :)
Notes ARE the DAC units.
I think though it's kind of weird investors will put money in "notes" instead of investing in equity of the DAC.
Investors will probably make a nice profit out of it, no doubt, I don't disagree with that. But it's a leap of faith, as they don't have any idea how many notes their investment entitle them to (as a percentage of the total investor's allowance).Just like AGS donations.
One thing for sure, is that no matter how much the music DAC is worth (even just a few millions in market cap), a few stake holders (founders) will make a fortune. I guess that's the whole point of this scheme?
I'm just saying that as it is, the communications for this DAC are kind of shady and open for interpretation (interpreting is exactly what I'm doing right now), and compared to the other DACs that are currently online (or going to be), there's a lot of the "equity" that will be flowing in the direction of the founders/centralized corporation. Either they hoard those notes or they spend it, I don't care, but I'm not comfortable with the fact that approximately 30% of the total equity is in very few hands, pretty much like all the other premined altcoins (and I also include Bitcoin in that statement).
I promised to share my thoughts on the market when I have one. Well today I do.I don't give any financial advise so can't comment on this.
The topic is:
'BitShares Music'Short Version:
Sell, sell, sell... whenever you get your hands on any bishashares Music shares (called Notes) sell. At whatever price the poor buyer is offering; do not give him a chance to think twice!QuoteLet’s not talk about PTS/AGS holders – getting in 30 % of a worthless product is not much better than getting just 10%, I know getting 10% is insulting nevertheless.That is why on the 8th day the lawd invented forking. PeerTracks does not have a monopoly on the BitShares toolkit.QuoteThe IPO is designed to follow all well-known path of ‘crypto space’ stupidity –Ethereum style, or ‘known number unknown quantity’ style IPO. In short you pay $5 for X number of shares, but you are totally unaware how many shares will be sold. With every passing day the new buyer get less number of shares per $5 but at least know how many other crazies have bought before them. The total number of crazies still remains unknown, as there may be many more coming after them.If by stupidity you mean most successful crypto IPO yet. Then yes!
Our first goal is to raise capital... effectively.
In the absence of price, this is the simplest model imo. We put up a random arbitrary price per Note. We don't know how many Notes will sell and so we can't sell out / run out. Now after the 6-8 week Note pre-sale, we use the number of sold notes to determine the total number of units this DAC will have.
If only 5 Notes sell, then the DAC will have a low unit number. If a million sell, then we base our DAC unit amount on this. People that bought Notes still get their percentage.
Similar to what AGS did really. Whenever I donated funds to the AGS addresses I never knew how many AGS I would get. I knew how many were sold that day but didn't know how many "crazies" as you put it where also going to jump in the pot.
This is the exact same thing only it's the other variable that is missing. In one case it's the fixed amount of "shares" the other case it's the % of shares.QuoteIf this is not enough, the wise DAC creators/founders not just keep the proceeds of the ipo, they also reward themselves with free shares (about 30% of the total DAC’s shares, never the less!)Of course we are going to keep the proceeds. What do you think we would do? Give it to charity? We have an entire industry to revolutionize. We need all the funds we can get.Quote-Well the IPO was the fun part, there the creators of this DAC just rob you in bright daylight and that is in a way honorable of them.Yes, COB is taking around 2% of Notes. If it pleases you, I can just take all my bitcoin, send it to the Pre-Sale address so that it looks fair.
While they thought hard for their 30-35% free notes, in the business model we see that those Notes are not worth much. They entitle you to transactions fees… and that is pretty much it (well other than being a speculator and shorting musicUSDs at their own eXchange)
1. Seems like a waste of time to send my funds from my btc address, to the peertracks pre-sale address which I will also control...
2. this will just inflate our Pre-sale numbers. Kinda crooked imo
3. How is it so surprising that I would want stake in this project? I've been at this since Febuary it would be highly fishy if I didn't have any stake at all in this haha
As for the % going to the peertracks corporation, this is another entity.
These are the corporate funds. They are to be used in whatever way benefits the whole endeavour. We might need them for partnerships, marketing, getting big name artists to jump on, etc.
They also are used to generate revenue via transaction fees. If the fees are enough to cover Peertracks' expenses, we can then reduce (or possible even eliminate) the small fee the website charges on each song/album sale.
Also, keep in mind that at launch, Peertracks will pretty much be synonymous to BitShares Music. The blockchain itself NEEDS a platform that ties every coins together, that allows a place to actually browse and download music, etc. Without a user friendly front end, you'll only have Ode to Satoshi being downloaded lol. No offense to Lij and John. That song is badass. But a song here and a song there just is not going to get crypto to mass adoption.
At launch, no Peertracks, no BitShares Music... AT LAUNCH. Now give it a couple months or years and competitors will pop up, or maybe it'll be a site in china that does the same thing, or a spanish music focused website, or an audiobook store, etc.
PeerTracks will be the company bringing value to the BitShares Music Blockchain at first.
And yes, we are aware that no BitShares, no PeerTracks. This is a symbiotic relationship. PeerTracks will get high volume and exposure to BitShares Music, they BitShares music will be strong enough to survive even if PeerTracks disappears.
Think of a site that just sells bikes. Then a site that just sells cell phone cases. And another site that just sells 1 type of lamp.
Sure they get a bit of traffic...
Now think of ebay. The fact that it is a site where you can shop for anything is what gives everyone an advantage, buyers, sellers and ebay itself. It's a win / win / win. This is what PeerTracks aims to be.
Titiana coin was a great experiment but it lacks PeerTracks to make it successful.... not to mention our mechanism that brings value to the coin!QuoteThe other way to make money in this system are the following:This is wrong. I'm sorry if I wasn't more clear. We'll get to the secret sauce soon. Before we start the Pre-Sale of course.
– You lend money to a promising musician, he promises to give you something back (or not) if he is a success. Way to enforce such promises are something that the ‘founders’ will have to think of… but that is for later.
We don't have to think about it. We already have a working, regulation compatible model. Artistcoins will have value depending on the amount of content that is sold. They are not stock in the artists, they are not equity, they do not pay dividends.Quote-The 3rd way the system makes money is buy selling music- on $1 dollar sales here are the proposed ratios:This is quote mining, cherry picking and a strawman.
95% for the musician;
4% for the ‘founders’ ???? (as they have expenses for bandwidth, etc.)
1% transaction fees…
First of all, the very first line in my post waskeep in mind these are fictitious %s and #s for the sake of simplicity
Then I say
If a song sells for 1 BitUSD (FROM the PeerTracks website), a couple of things happen.
So not only are you bashing the fictitious numbers I gave out to explain the concept. But also the big "IF"
In PeerTracks, the artist decides what price he sells his music for. It's none of our business!
Second, that fictitious 4% does not go to the founders at all. It goes to the PeerTracks corporation. And this is only on stuff PURCHASED ON PEERTRACKS. It has nothing to do with the Bitshares Music blockchain. ANYONE can start a website that uses this blockchain and charge whatever fees they want. We are betting on it!
It's like you are complaining that Bitpay takes a certain % out of merchant transaction. Well... Bitpay can do what it wants! If it screws up, a competitor will capitalize on their errors and take em over or just outcompete them.
You seam to be mixing up Bitpay with Bitcoin and PeerTracks with BitShares Music.
And to cover your final point, yes, the DAC makes money from transaction fees of of every piece of audio content sold. Be it, songs, albums, audiobooks, podcasts, lectures, etc. If you don't think that's a big enough market, look at the numbers more closely. Check out Pandora, spotify, itunes, google play, etc. Add up that potential.
Then realize that there are also transaction fees from anything else that isn't a sale. People trading around artistcoins for example. What if a band starts accepting it's artistcoin as currency for it's concerts? For it's merch? Think of the incentive artists and bands will have to make their coin worth more then the others. We envision 1000 DOGEcoin type ecosystems all residing on the BitShares Music Blockchain.
By all means, sell sell sell ^^
To sum up.
This is going to be one hell of a game changer. Not only for the music world, but for BitShares and the crypto world. Whether you sell your Notes or not.
If only 5 Notes sell, then the DAC will have a low unit number. If a million sell, then we base our DAC unit amount on this. People that bought Notes still get their percentage.
Similar to what AGS did really. Whenever I donated funds to the AGS addresses I never knew how many AGS I would get. I knew how many were sold that day but didn't know how many "crazies" as you put it where also going to jump in the pot.
This is the exact same thing only it's the other variable that is missing. In one case it's the fixed amount of "shares" the other case it's the % of shares.
tony it is very entertaining to read you sarcastic posts (not kidding) but it would give your critique more weight if you can come up with an alternative plan...
Removing the stupid and or greedy parts of the plan will be a start.
1. If you want to give just 20% to AGS/PTS, fine, it your right. (The useless bastards are not a good marketing group anyway, why give them more).
2.If you think IPO is the best way to go - fine;
-Make a model that makes sense ('Here investor buy some notes', 'What PERCENT will 100 BTC buy me?' -'Well we do not know, but definitely 5Mil shares" - Does, not cut it! )
AGS style is a good start. Improve on it!
-Buy as much as you want through that IPO
3. Want a stability of a dollar, in the payments in the system? - Good - Make a gateway on BTSX exchange, to make trading Notes for bitUSD. (Building your own exchange for that purpose - Wistful overkill). You can have automatic Note<--> bitUSD on your site for the customer convenience if you would like.
4. Having 5% fee of every sell (for the bandwidth???, how did you calculate it will be enough?), in current form it just smells money grab, money grab. My solution leave 25% as delegate fee. Let the delegates/Note-holders decide what is a good split bandwidth/Profit (Burning)/Marketing etc. You will run quite a few of them delegates anyway.
That's me thinking 15min on the subject.
For 9 mo. the 'FOUNDERS" came with nothing but schemes to get bigger part of the pie for themselves.
How to put what you said to your level of arguments... Let's give it a try:
Shark Tank example: How many times do you think the sharks have taken a deal - '5 Million shares in a company, that represent unknown % of the company' ?
[Hint the number looks like 'O']
I do not know ... I hope in the music business, such reasoning has a better chance of to be taken seriously...
Yeah what are you getting worked up about tonk? I really don't get it. Who cares how many units exist if your going to receive a fixed percentage. It doesn't matter how many of this alt or that alt you own, its about what % you own, everything else serves to trick noobs. I'm pretty excited for this project!
My questions would be, what about this music DAC makes it need to be decentralized? Hit a chord with the kids at being anti-establishment? Is someone trying to avoid intellectual property? Why not just a centralized website with a db backend to keep track of shares ?This is a good question! My thoughts are:
QuoteMy questions would be, what about this music DAC makes it need to be decentralized? Hit a chord with the kids at being anti-establishment? Is someone trying to avoid intellectual property? Why not just a centralized website with a db backend to keep track of shares ?This is a good question! My thoughts are:
With a blockchain tracking the ownership of artistcoins people can exchange those coins outside the peertracks platform on exhanges and between phones.
Other devs can write applications around the open source software.
Artistcoins have value as long as the bitshares music blockchain exists no matter how long the peershares company exists.
Transparency: With a dentralized database you couldnt prove it if you had the feeling that some artistcons where stolen from your account, with a blockchain(explorer) you can.
Downsides:
User can loose his private keys and lose his shares? Might be possible to offer a service to backup private keys by peertracks optionally. You could see of peertracks company abused this on the blockchain.
Slightly more costly than running one cerntralized database. Might not be as many delegates might work for the several DACs.
Dependence on the DPOS network's security (potentially vunerable to attacks). Isnt a centralized database also vunerable to attacks .
What else?
2. And for the idiots selling BTSX - first Thank you! and second, unfortunately I have broken all available piggy-banks in my house, so I after today I can no longer take advantage of your stupidity, but somebody else for sure will.I am having the exact same issue here ???