BitShares Forum

Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: zonda on March 10, 2015, 10:03:46 pm

Title: What's happening with the price?
Post by: zonda on March 10, 2015, 10:03:46 pm
Why is BTS going down?
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Ander on March 10, 2015, 10:26:57 pm
Some reasons:

1) Some whales are upset, so they sell.  The whole PR gag order thing is an example of this.
2) Some BTS Developers (who you would normally expect to be strong hands during downturns), sold for tax purposes, which broke through some support levels and increased the amount of BTS out there among traders.
3) At least of the BTS inflation which is going to delegates is being sold to pay for marketing campaigns, fund development efforts, etc. 
4) Some community members got burned in the bter hack, and have withdrawn from buying.  For example, personally, I use to make regular small buys every week, but I havent bought any BTS in 4 weeks now, I've been building up BTC instead.  If/when I get my BTS out of bter I'll probably feel better about the whole thing and start buying again, probably on a different site.
5) Vesting balances of BTS becoming available from peoples PTS/DNS/etc shares means that soem of these people who had previously locked up BTS shares, but who had become bearish, have been selling them.
6) Most altcoins have been falling behind BTC in the recent rallies, with a few notable exceptions like Darkcoin, Monero, etc which had recent pumps.  BTS has dropped in satoshi terms just like most of them.


The marketing efforts and development of features like webwallet, decentralized exchange, etc, seem to be providing some community growth, but not enough yet to overcome these factors.   To see BTS go up we need to see either increasing mass adoption, or attract some new whales with plenty of money to spend, or to have some of the above negative factors go away, turning the downtrend around. 


The upside is that for those of us that believe in BTS long term, we can get very good prices right now.  Close to IPO prices, close to the lows from summer of 2014 before features like assets were even released yet.  We can buy BTS now with a full extra year or more of development work, without paying more than the people who bought long ago. 
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Empirical1.2 on March 10, 2015, 10:41:33 pm
Our BTC high was Oct 5th and we've been declining in $ and BTC terms since.   

At first I wasn't sure if this was a good idea but the more I think about it, the more I like it.

We know that a lot of bitcoiners and altcoiners think btsx is a "crapcoin" and a ponzi scheme. So why do we really care what they say about us diluting btsx? Many of them are set in stone and won't "convert". This is why they aren't a target demographic for btsx. Our time, money and energy should be focused on people outside the crypto sphere. Those people don't care how it works, but if it works.

I think as long as this is well thought out and all other options are exhausted that we should go for it.

Kind of reminds me of the famous five monkeys experiment. 
Nobody in those communities is willing to go for the bananas any more
but no one remembers why.
;)

(http://blog2.id.com.au/wp-content/uploads/Monkeys-300x199.jpg)

http://www.answers.com/Q/Did_the_monkey_banana_and_water_spray_experiment_ever_take_place (http://www.answers.com/Q/Did_the_monkey_banana_and_water_spray_experiment_ever_take_place)

Kind of reminds me of the famous goose that laid the golden eggs.

(http://motivatedmormon.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Dont-Kill-the-Goose-2.jpg)

Today at 0.000032  BTC, we're at a price that we haven't seen since the first few weeks BTSX was launched.

BitAssets are absolutely groundbreaking though.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Ander on March 10, 2015, 10:55:49 pm
Yes, mistakes were made.  Large mistakes.  BTS holders at the time paid the price dearly.  Those of us who didn't realize they were mistakes and held have suffered. 

One cannot undo mistakes of the past, we can only make decisions now.
The relevant question is:

At the present time, with the features that BTS has now (Paid delegates, market assets, etc), is a price of 3200 satoshis per BTS too high, too low, or roughly correct?

Based on your available funds, and current exposure to BTS or lack thereof, is the correct move for your portfolio to increase your BTS holdings, decrease, or hold the same?
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Empirical1.2 on March 10, 2015, 11:47:09 pm
Yes, mistakes were made.  Large mistakes.  BTS holders at the time paid the price dearly.  Those of us who didn't realize they were mistakes and held have suffered. 

One cannot undo mistakes of the past, we can only make decisions now.
The relevant question is:

At the present time, with the features that BTS has now (Paid delegates, market assets, etc), is a price of 3200 satoshis per BTS too high, too low, or roughly correct?

Based on your available funds, and current exposure to BTS or lack thereof, is the correct move for your portfolio to increase your BTS holdings, decrease, or hold the same?

I took a big position in BTS again at the 0.000045 BTC level we seemed to stabilise at as I thought with all the positive developments and the mistakes priced in, we'd start to grow again.  That has obviously proved to be incorrect. So I've been exiting that trade at a loss.

For what BTS technically is and how rapidly it can develop I think it's severely underpriced. However in terms of community growth, BitAsset adoption and general sentiment we've been weak & because we've been in a fairly sustained downtrend I've actually even sold a bit of my base position too.  I'm also concerned about the amount of development BTS seems to need and if it can afford it for more than a few months if the price doesn't recover.

In conclusion I would say we're cheap but I've already taken some losses so even if I miss some of the initial gains, i'll probably wait for a clear change in the direction rather than trying to call the bottom before I accumulate again.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: hadrian on March 11, 2015, 09:27:17 pm
Yes, mistakes were made.  Large mistakes.  BTS holders at the time paid the price dearly.  Those of us who didn't realize they were mistakes and held have suffered. 

One cannot undo mistakes of the past, we can only make decisions now.
The relevant question is:

At the present time, with the features that BTS has now (Paid delegates, market assets, etc), is a price of 3200 satoshis per BTS too high, too low, or roughly correct?

Based on your available funds, and current exposure to BTS or lack thereof, is the correct move for your portfolio to increase your BTS holdings, decrease, or hold the same?

I took a big position in BTS again at the 0.000045 BTC level we seemed to stabilise at as I thought with all the positive developments and the mistakes priced in, we'd start to grow again.  That has obviously proved to be incorrect. So I've been exiting that trade at a loss.

For what BTS technically is and how rapidly it can develop I think it's severely underpriced. However in terms of community growth, BitAsset adoption and general sentiment we've been weak & because we've been in a fairly sustained downtrend I've actually even sold a bit of my base position too.  I'm also concerned about the amount of development BTS seems to need and if it can afford it for more than a few months if the price doesn't recover.

In conclusion I would say we're cheap but I've already taken some losses so even if I miss some of the initial gains, i'll probably wait for a clear change in the direction rather than trying to call the bottom before I accumulate again.

I'm not disagreeing with anything Empirical said here - it's reasonable. There is obviously risk involved with anything as groundbreaking as BitShares. One can argue that it makes sense to pull out to a degree and then come back in if there's a clear positive change. I would, however, like to describe an alternative way to view things.

I put quite a lot of money (for me) into BitShares, in large part because I want it to succeed for ideological reasons. If I only wanted to make money I may do what Empirical suggested. I didn't put more money in than I can afford to lose, so I would rather lose it all while supporting BitShares than sell to avoid personal loss. I see it as a once in a lifetime thing and I'm gonna stick to my metaphorical guns! If I decide I can reasonably afford more, I'll get more.

This isn't to criticise Empirical, I'm posting this to remind myself why I'm here. It's easy (and sometimes exciting) to get caught up in market caps, but for me there is more at stake.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: roadscape on March 12, 2015, 01:47:59 am
Yes, mistakes were made.  Large mistakes.  BTS holders at the time paid the price dearly.  Those of us who didn't realize they were mistakes and held have suffered. 

One cannot undo mistakes of the past, we can only make decisions now.
The relevant question is:

At the present time, with the features that BTS has now (Paid delegates, market assets, etc), is a price of 3200 satoshis per BTS too high, too low, or roughly correct?

Based on your available funds, and current exposure to BTS or lack thereof, is the correct move for your portfolio to increase your BTS holdings, decrease, or hold the same?

I took a big position in BTS again at the 0.000045 BTC level we seemed to stabilise at as I thought with all the positive developments and the mistakes priced in, we'd start to grow again.  That has obviously proved to be incorrect. So I've been exiting that trade at a loss.

For what BTS technically is and how rapidly it can develop I think it's severely underpriced. However in terms of community growth, BitAsset adoption and general sentiment we've been weak & because we've been in a fairly sustained downtrend I've actually even sold a bit of my base position too.  I'm also concerned about the amount of development BTS seems to need and if it can afford it for more than a few months if the price doesn't recover.

In conclusion I would say we're cheap but I've already taken some losses so even if I miss some of the initial gains, i'll probably wait for a clear change in the direction rather than trying to call the bottom before I accumulate again.

I'm not disagreeing with anything Empirical said here - it's reasonable. There is obviously risk involved with anything as groundbreaking as BitShares. One can argue that it makes sense to pull out to a degree and then come back in if there's a clear positive change. I would, however, like to describe an alternative way to view things.

I put quite a lot of money (for me) into BitShares, in large part because I want it to succeed for ideological reasons. If I only wanted to make money I may do what Empirical suggested. I didn't put more money in than I can afford to lose, so I would rather lose it all while supporting BitShares than sell to avoid personal loss. I see it as a once in a lifetime thing and I'm gonna stick to my metaphorical guns! If I decide I can reasonably afford more, I'll get more.

This isn't to criticise Empirical, I'm posting this to remind myself why I'm here. It's easy (and sometimes exciting) to get caught up in market caps, but for me there is more at stake.

Well put!

Also, http://www.businessinsider.com/investors-miss-stock-market-rallies-charts-2014-10
"In other words, investors were just fantastic at being exposed to the market only when it was sliding."
"When volatility picks up, it's tempting to trade in and out of the market with the hope you'll protect your wealth. Unfortunately, this increases the risk you'll miss some of the best days in the market. And that can be very costly."
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Frodo03 on March 12, 2015, 01:23:16 pm
I haven't sold any of what I initially bought, but I must say I don't think the future for Bitshares is mass adoption. Ethereum is going to be coming out in roughly a month or so, and it can do everything Bitshares can do AND MUCH MORE. Not to mention that Ethereum's backing is much greater than Bitshares. So why settle for BitShares? Why not just wait until Ethereum is released?
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: hpenvy2 on March 12, 2015, 01:27:41 pm
I haven't sold any of what I initially bought, but I must say I don't think the future for Bitshares is mass adoption. Ethereum is going to be coming out in roughly a month or so, and it can do everything Bitshares can do AND MUCH MORE. Not to mention that Ethereum's backing is much greater than Bitshares. So why settle for BitShares? Why not just wait until Ethereum is released?

There's a rumor it also washes you car on the weekend and makes a mean double chocolate milkshake.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: btswildpig on March 12, 2015, 01:41:32 pm
I haven't sold any of what I initially bought, but I must say I don't think the future for Bitshares is mass adoption. Ethereum is going to be coming out in roughly a month or so, and it can do everything Bitshares can do AND MUCH MORE. Not to mention that Ethereum's backing is much greater than Bitshares. So why settle for BitShares? Why not just wait until Ethereum is released?

Go to Ethereum , earn some money , buy more BTS with the money you earn .  :P
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: xeroc on March 12, 2015, 01:43:08 pm
I haven't sold any of what I initially bought, but I must say I don't think the future for Bitshares is mass adoption. Ethereum is going to be coming out in roughly a month or so, and it can do everything Bitshares can do AND MUCH MORE. Not to mention that Ethereum's backing is much greater than Bitshares. So why settle for BitShares? Why not just wait until Ethereum is released?

There's a rumor it also washes you car on the weekend and makes a mean double chocolate milkshake.
*reusper*:
http://www.reddit.com/r/counterparty_xcp/comments/2y0apx/contract_news/

And this is *just* the beginning .. who knows what happens if this thing has to scale ..

BTW, with ethereum doing POW .. there are NO synchronous blocks .. hence .. network propagation has to be considere for network security .. which usually leads to higher average block confirmation times ..
what POW coin do you know that has 10 secs block time? how secure are they?

With POW in ethereum and asynchronous blocks, the market pegged assets will certainly not run as nice and smoothly as in BTS ..
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: TurkeyLeg on March 12, 2015, 01:49:49 pm
I bought BTS at 5k, 6k, and 7k Satoshi (and BTC around $500) last fall. Basically, I bought in as soon as I realized the potential of this project.

I have already lost most of my investment. To sell at this point would be pointless. The difference between selling now and the price dropping to 0.00 is too close to bother with it. I'll hold for the Hail Mary and maybe I'll get lucky.

Not how I expected the last 8 months to go, that's for sure - however the web wallet is almost useful and development in general is making progress- so we will see.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Tuck Fheman on March 12, 2015, 02:06:09 pm
Why is BTS going down?

It's because of a few people posting their opinions on this forum. I know it sounds amazing, but that's what actually drives the price of BitShares and determines if more developers will sharedrop (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=14871.msg192727#msg192727).

If everyone here would just say positive things and have happy thoughts about BitShares (no matter how bad things get screwed up behind the scenes), we'd all be millionaires by 2016.
 :-\
[/pointmaking]
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: mf-tzo on March 12, 2015, 02:11:26 pm
I bought BTS at 5, 6, and 7 Satoshi (and BTC around $500) last fall. Basically, I bought in as soon as I realized the potential of this project.

I have already lost most of my investment. To sell at this point would be pointless. The difference between selling now and the price dropping to 0.00 is too close to bother with it. I'll hold for the Hail Mary and maybe I'll get lucky.

Not how I expected the last 8 months to go, that's for sure - however the web wallet is almost useful and development in general is making progress- so we will see.

You are not the only one so don't worry...I have been around from the beginning and lost almost all my investment since I was buying whenever I can afford at whatever price. I think we will soon have a second pump. BTS just doesn't deserve to die. The world needs this more than ever..The problem is that the world doesn't know that yet..
 
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: TurkeyLeg on March 12, 2015, 02:26:04 pm

I bought BTS at 5, 6, and 7 Satoshi (and BTC around $500) last fall. Basically, I bought in as soon as I realized the potential of this project.

I have already lost most of my investment. To sell at this point would be pointless. The difference between selling now and the price dropping to 0.00 is too close to bother with it. I'll hold for the Hail Mary and maybe I'll get lucky.

Not how I expected the last 8 months to go, that's for sure - however the web wallet is almost useful and development in general is making progress- so we will see.

You are not the only one so don't worry...I have been around from the beginning and lost almost all my investment since I was buying whenever I can afford at whatever price. I think we will soon have a second pump. BTS just doesn't deserve to die. The world needs this more than ever..The problem is that the world doesn't know that yet..

+5% I'm with you on that brother!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Tuck Fheman on March 12, 2015, 02:42:25 pm
I bought BTS at 5, 6, and 7 Satoshi (and BTC around $500) last fall. Basically, I bought in as soon as I realized the potential of this project.

I have already lost most of my investment. To sell at this point would be pointless. The difference between selling now and the price dropping to 0.00 is too close to bother with it. I'll hold for the Hail Mary and maybe I'll get lucky.

Not how I expected the last 8 months to go, that's for sure - however the web wallet is almost useful and development in general is making progress- so we will see.

you had me for a second, you mean 5k, 6k, 7k satoshi.

this is not investment advice. do your own research. these are my personal opinions and nothing more. i have no idea what i'm doing.

hang in there! if anything i would buy right now while it's low. if you don't want to hodl long term, wait, the price will come back to it's previous level and more and you can exit then. personally i'm a long term hodler with bitshares. the only other platform that comes close is nxt (and they are actually still ahead of bitshares imo, which is why i also hodl nxt). bitshares has a brighter future than nxt i believe, simply because of the way things were structured to begin with and the people behind the projects. despite our objections to certain aspects of the bitshares "pr" campaign, most everyone here at tuck fheman are ags investors, mined pts and are long term hodlers. you can make some profit now by using the bitshares exchange you own and use those bitshares to get some bitsilver, bitgold, bitbtc, bitusd while they're low and sell when they go up. rinse & repeat. since you own the exchange, you're also increasing the value of your bitshares each time you do this. it would also make the rest of your partners happy too. =)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: TurkeyLeg on March 12, 2015, 02:53:34 pm

I bought BTS at 5, 6, and 7 Satoshi (and BTC around $500) last fall. Basically, I bought in as soon as I realized the potential of this project.

I have already lost most of my investment. To sell at this point would be pointless. The difference between selling now and the price dropping to 0.00 is too close to bother with it. I'll hold for the Hail Mary and maybe I'll get lucky.

Not how I expected the last 8 months to go, that's for sure - however the web wallet is almost useful and development in general is making progress- so we will see.

you had me for a second, you mean 5k, 6k, 7k satoshi.

this is not investment advice. do your own research. these are my personal opinions and nothing more. i have no idea what i'm doing.

hang in there! if anything i would buy right now while it's low. if you don't want to hodl long term, wait, the price will come back to it's previous level and more and you can exit then. personally i'm a long term hodler with bitshares. the only other platform that comes close is nxt (and they are actually still ahead of bitshares imo, which is why i also hodl nxt). bitshares has a brighter future than nxt i believe, simply because of the way things were structured to begin with and the people behind the projects. despite our objections to certain aspects of the bitshares "pr" campaign, most everyone here at tuck fheman are ags investors, mined pts and are long term hodlers. you can make some profit now by using the bitshares exchange you own and use those bitshares to get some bitsilver, bitgold, bitbtc, bitusd while they're low and sell when they go up. rinse & repeat. since you own the exchange, you're also increasing the value of your bitshares each time you do this. it would also make the rest of your partners happy too. =)

Yeah, sorry - 5K satoshi, etc.

And what do you mean buying bitUSD while it's low? It's pegged to $1 is it not? And I would only want to hedge into BitAssets if I expect the price of BTS to go down, correct? And that's really not what I want to see happen.

Unfortunately, I work full time and am a single parent to two kids - I don't have the time or mental bandwidth to play the DEX in hopes of small incremental gains - although it would be nice if I was smart enough to do that and not lose money :-).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: infovortice2013 on March 12, 2015, 02:58:28 pm
Buy more if you can, its easy. Buying BTS at 3.2k you make global price of your other bts go down. and when go up take more profit..

also you can play with BTS inside bitshares , make shorts etc

but sell your BTS to a stranger.... you must be crazy manz


another good form its to have one delegate to sharedrop over active comunity, and like this compensate them his inversion, work and time dedicated to bitshares
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Ander on March 12, 2015, 03:03:05 pm

And what do you mean buying bitUSD while it's low? It's pegged to $1 is it not? And I would only want to hedge into BitAssets if I expect the price of BTS to go down, correct? And that's really not what I want to see happen.

He means buy into BTS while its low.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: xiahui135 on March 12, 2015, 03:08:36 pm
I bought BTS at 5, 6, and 7 Satoshi (and BTC around $500) last fall. Basically, I bought in as soon as I realized the potential of this project.

I have already lost most of my investment. To sell at this point would be pointless. The difference between selling now and the price dropping to 0.00 is too close to bother with it. I'll hold for the Hail Mary and maybe I'll get lucky.

Not how I expected the last 8 months to go, that's for sure - however the web wallet is almost useful and development in general is making progress- so we will see.

You are not the only one so don't worry...I have been around from the beginning and lost almost all my investment since I was buying whenever I can afford at whatever price. I think we will soon have a second pump. BTS just doesn't deserve to die. The world needs this more than ever..The problem is that the world doesn't know that yet..
i think the idea is very good. but whether the community can do actual usable tools and marketing program.
DO NOT just think big and do little any more.( that is the feeling i felt from the community before. I would rather take this step by step)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Empirical1.2 on March 12, 2015, 03:25:51 pm
Does anyone know how much of the merger allocation is being claimed on average?

There's up to 650k merger BTS being released a day in addition to the up to 100k via delegate dilution which is a significant amount relative to the average BTS buy walls which could be having an impact on BTS sustaining it's price at this stage. http://www.btc38.com/trade_en.html?btc38_trade_coin_name=bts

 


Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: btswildpig on March 12, 2015, 03:27:28 pm
Does anyone know how much of the merger allocation is being claimed on average?

There's up to 650k merger BTS being released a day in addition to the up to 100k via delegate dilution which is a significant amount relative to the average BTS buy walls which could be having an impact on BTS sustaining it's price at this stage. http://www.btc38.com/trade_en.html?btc38_trade_coin_name=bts

well ....to be fair , most of the merger BTS was cost at least 3X than what it is now . (esp. those who got it from PTS / DNS / AGS)
I don't think many people would dump at this price .
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Empirical1.2 on March 12, 2015, 03:37:59 pm
Does anyone know how much of the merger allocation is being claimed on average?

There's up to 650k merger BTS being released a day in addition to the up to 100k via delegate dilution which is a significant amount relative to the average BTS buy walls which could be having an impact on BTS sustaining it's price at this stage. http://www.btc38.com/trade_en.html?btc38_trade_coin_name=bts

well ....to be fair , most of the merger BTS was cost at least 3X than what it is now . (esp. those who got it from PTS / DNS / AGS)
I don't think many people would dump at this price .

This is true. I would be surprised if even 25% of it was sold on average a day.

I think though most people making the effort to claim their merger BTS are probably sellers. So I can make some guesses for myself about how much is being sold if I know how much is being claimed.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: zerosum on March 12, 2015, 03:41:57 pm
Does anyone know how much of the merger allocation is being claimed on average?

There's up to 650k merger BTS being released a day in addition to the up to 100k via delegate dilution which is a significant amount relative to the average BTS buy walls which could be having an impact on BTS sustaining it's price at this stage. http://www.btc38.com/trade_en.html?btc38_trade_coin_name=bts

 129,427.20    currant daily new BTS  from delegates
  694,444.44    daily from superDAC merger
  823,871.64    total New BTS daily

How much is claimed daily is not so significant as they can be claimed the next day and the next... so the safe assumption is "upto 823K BTS must be bought on average, each and every day...for the next about 20mo."

[edit] I think buying about 1/3 of the above amount (on average) is what we need to keep the price from going down.

Title: What's happening with the price?
Post by: TurkeyLeg on March 12, 2015, 05:14:27 pm

Important point.   +5%


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Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Chuckone on March 12, 2015, 06:21:43 pm
For those who bought at a higher price, dumping at the current price would almost be like selling for almost nothing a lotto ticket you already paid for only because the odds of winning the big prize "seem" to have changed. It's just a perception issue here, because the technology and innovations are there, the progress is there also.

The money and liquidity aren't there though, and it's killing us.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: hadrian on March 12, 2015, 07:06:54 pm
BitShares is really successful compared with other projects. Look at our placing by market cap since launch!
It's not as if we're sliding out of sight on coinmarketcap!
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: konelectric on March 13, 2015, 01:01:57 am
"It's always darkest before the dawn".
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Empirical1.2 on March 13, 2015, 01:16:48 am
"It's always darkest before the dawn".

Now where have I heard that before?  :)

It is always darkest before dawn.   We have all seen how fast it can rise on crazy volume.    Easy come, easy go.   

Living by the day to day price moves is a good way to lose sight of our mission.

Then again near the poles it can be night for up to 6 months...
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: lzr1900 on March 13, 2015, 01:28:37 am
"It's always darkest before the dawn".
BS
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: lzr1900 on March 13, 2015, 01:40:50 am
(http://i.imgur.com/a3Uu4zG.png)
Why the fuck the release date changed again and again?
This is a very  slow progress.
Thats why the price was acting like a shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


AND this is DVS release date,the BTS chain release date,thats another topic.
cao,how long we have to wait for a function、stable wallet?we have been wait for a long long long time.

bitshares,I DON'T WANT TO WAIT FOR YOUR SLOW MOVEMENT,BYE BYE .
totally lost my hope and love with BTS.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: robrigo on March 13, 2015, 01:46:05 am
(http://i.imgur.com/a3Uu4zG.png)
Why the fuck the release data changed again and again?
This is a very  slow progress.
Thats why the price was acting like a shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You have a terrible attitude and nobody owes you anything.

What are you doing to make bitshares better besides bitching?
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: lzr1900 on March 13, 2015, 02:03:27 am
(http://i.imgur.com/a3Uu4zG.png)
Why the fuck the release data changed again and again?
This is a very  slow progress.
Thats why the price was acting like a shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You have a terrible attitude and nobody owes you anything.

What are you doing to make bitshares better besides bitching?
terrible attitude?thats the fucking reality.
Don‘t acting you do a lot to bitshares,bitch.
I have tons of shares to vote  for 100% delegate,I bought and mined PTS since day 1,you dare say i do nothing to bitshares?
你们这些老外一个个就是装逼犯,一天不装逼就不舒服
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: konelectric on March 13, 2015, 02:05:24 am
What are you doing to make bitshares better besides bitching?
[/quote]

 +5% you nailed it.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: robrigo on March 13, 2015, 02:08:08 am
(http://i.imgur.com/a3Uu4zG.png)
Why the fuck the release data changed again and again?
This is a very  slow progress.
Thats why the price was acting like a shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You have a terrible attitude and nobody owes you anything.

What are you doing to make bitshares better besides bitching?
terrible attitude?thats the fucking reality.
Don‘t acting you do a lot to bitshares,bitch.
I have tons of shares to vote  for 100% delegate,I bought and mined PTS since day 1,you dare say i do nothing to bitshares?
你们这些老外一个个就是装逼犯,一天不装逼就不舒服
Nope, I said you have a terrible attitude and bitch a lot, and asked you what you did. But apparently that struck a nerve.

"Ask not what bitshares can do for you, but what you can do for bitshares."

Don't take it too personally bro.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on March 13, 2015, 02:19:28 am
(http://i.imgur.com/a3Uu4zG.png)
Why the fuck the release data changed again and again?
This is a very  slow progress.
Thats why the price was acting like a shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You have a terrible attitude and nobody owes you anything.

What are you doing to make bitshares better besides bitching?

Hey Robrigo... since when does bitching help make bitshares better?  :)

Lets nuke the complainers. <play on lzr1900s avatar> All believers may take refuge in the bunker.. humm.. bet this post is going to show up in an NSA keyword scan now that I read what I wrote. :D Whupsy.

If there was anything driving down the price just from reading all the messages posted daily its this kind of thing that is doing it. Announcements are being made almost every other day about some new development carrying BitShares forward... anyways...

(http://i59.tinypic.com/wugvg8.jpg)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on March 13, 2015, 02:20:17 am
"It's always darkest before the dawn".
+5%
Press on to meet the dawn.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: lil_jay890 on March 13, 2015, 02:20:45 am
(http://i.imgur.com/a3Uu4zG.png)
Why the fuck the release data changed again and again?
This is a very  slow progress.
Thats why the price was acting like a shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You have a terrible attitude and nobody owes you anything.

What are you doing to make bitshares better besides bitching?
terrible attitude?thats the fucking reality.
Don‘t acting you do a lot to bitshares,bitch.
I have tons of shares to vote  for 100% delegate,I bought and mined PTS since day 1,you dare say i do nothing to bitshares?
你们这些老外一个个就是装逼犯,一天不装逼就不舒服

I understand the frustration with the delayed release, but as toast posted a while ago, 1.0 is over hyped and shouldn't be a huge catalyst or mystery potion for the price.

Still, throwing temper tantrums and spewing insults isn't going to get more people to buy bitshares or get the devs to even consider your opinion.  Why not focus all this energy on something productive for bitshares? Unless of course you want to see it fail...
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: vegolino on March 13, 2015, 02:22:26 am
Izr1900 did you maybe notice how 100% delegates are cooperating between each other and with other community members.
I know the price has been down but development is great and the price will eventually have to show all the great  work that has been put in to Bithshares.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: robrigo on March 13, 2015, 02:22:52 am
(http://i.imgur.com/a3Uu4zG.png)
Why the fuck the release data changed again and again?
This is a very  slow progress.
Thats why the price was acting like a shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You have a terrible attitude and nobody owes you anything.

What are you doing to make bitshares better besides bitching?

Hey Robrigo... since when does bitching help make bitshares better?  :)

Lets nuke the complainers. <play on lzr1900s avatar> All believers may take refuge in the bunker.. humm.. bet this post is going to show up in an NSA keyword scan now that I read what I wrote. :D Whupsy.

If there was anything driving down the price just from reading all the messages posted daily its this kind of thing that is doing it. Announcements are being made almost every other day about some new development carrying BitShares forward... anyways...

(http://i59.tinypic.com/wugvg8.jpg)

Ha good point, I could have phrased that better. Not trying to stir up shit but damn, almost everything lzr1900 posts is extremely negative and sometimes that shit needs to be called out.

lzr1900 can we be friends?  8)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Pheonike on March 13, 2015, 05:00:01 am
I'll buy what you have for half the price. Since you thinks it worth nothing then you will be ahead.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Riverhead on March 13, 2015, 05:42:10 am

Why the fuck the release date changed again and again?
This is a very  slow progress.

Since you're watching github so closely you can see that progress is being made daily. There is no "easy" button for development. It takes the time it takes. The dates are best guess targets.

I worry about the share price because I know a lot of people are compensated in BTS. However I will only be concerned for the project when I notice github slow down. Until then the market will speculate as it sees fit.

Think in terms of years not days. If a date gets pushed back a few weeks or a couple months who cares? The financial world isn't going anywhere and the market is huge.



Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: cube on March 13, 2015, 05:59:48 am
(http://i.imgur.com/a3Uu4zG.png)
Why the fuck the release date changed again and again?
This is a very  slow progress.
Thats why the price was acting like a shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


AND this is DVS release date,the BTS chain release date,thats another topic.
cao,how long we have to wait for a function、stable wallet?we have been wait for a long long long time.

bitshares,I DON'T WANT TO WAIT FOR YOUR SLOW MOVEMENT,BYE BYE .
totally lost my hope and love with BTS.

When a person is in pain (after losing a lot of money in bts?), it is natural that he/she would cry out (some may try to suppress).  It is understandable that you are feeling this way and you are showing your frustration.

But a highly frustrated state can cloud the mind.  There are improvements in the way the development is being managed. The developers have cut down their time with the forum (and mumble) and they are focused on development and improving the wallet.  In addition, the team has recently added a new member. Delegate dev-pc.bitcube is joining the team as an experienced part-time developer.

As for the changes in the release dates. I do agree that some transparency and accountability should be there.  But perhaps asking the devs,rather than demanding or condemning, would help.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: cube on March 13, 2015, 06:04:54 am

Ha good point, I could have phrased that better. Not trying to stir up shit but damn, almost everything lzr1900 posts is extremely negative and sometimes that shit needs to be called out.

lzr1900 can we be friends?  8)

When a person lost a lot of money in bts (he seems to be) and in grief, it is understandable that he vented his frustrations via negative posts.  We can help by showing the positive developments that are happening.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: btswildpig on March 13, 2015, 06:10:48 am
don't worry about development , it'll get there .
Adoption on the other hand , it's harder to control than development .

We may have a working 1.0 one day , but will still be fighting for adoption .
Let's focus on that , be ready for that .
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: cube on March 13, 2015, 07:05:04 am
don't worry about development , it'll get there .


Well. I think he is frustrated because he _believes_ it will never get there.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: xeroc on March 13, 2015, 07:42:54 am
(http://i.imgur.com/a3Uu4zG.png)
Why the fuck the release date changed again and again?

After hours of investigation I found the reason for the delay and highlighted it for you:

(http://i.imgur.com/MOUPsxr.png)

Quote
This is a very  slow much progress. Very wow!

After several more hours I even found an error in your statements. Fixed it for you .. Can thank me later
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: nomoreheroes7 on March 13, 2015, 12:13:25 pm
Lol I understand the need to avoid "bitching", but damn is it hard to watch those milestones get pushed back from...October? To March...To.....forever...

It'd be nice if there were some kind of "concreteness" to the dates set. Maybe a public dev flogging if they don't make the deadline?  :P

I'm being facetious, but it is hard to stay motivated/enthused about BTS when it feels like the project's development milestones just kinda go on forever.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: zonda on March 13, 2015, 01:20:45 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/a3Uu4zG.png)
Why the fuck the release data changed again and again?
This is a very  slow progress.
Thats why the price was acting like a shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You have a terrible attitude and nobody owes you anything.

What are you doing to make bitshares better besides bitching?
terrible attitude?thats the fucking reality.
Don‘t acting you do a lot to bitshares,bitch.
I have tons of shares to vote  for 100% delegate,I bought and mined PTS since day 1,you dare say i do nothing to bitshares?
你们这些老外一个个就是装逼犯,一天不装逼就不舒服

I understand the frustration with the delayed release, but as toast posted a while ago, 1.0 is over hyped and shouldn't be a huge catalyst or mystery potion for the price.

Still, throwing temper tantrums and spewing insults isn't going to get more people to buy bitshares or get the devs to even consider your opinion.  Why not focus all this energy on something productive for bitshares? Unless of course you want to see it fail...

I agree that is overrated and that it shouldn't bring nothing new to the price because it is essential to have a working wallet.

Let me give you my example:

Until November I managed to have a BTSX wallet on my computer. Then things started glitching. Every new update was slower and crashing more and more. Numerous crash reports etc.. I lost my mind with it and transferred all of my BTS to btc38. I couldn't anymore wait for the wallet to re-synchronize and re-index. My BTS were still on the exchange when bter hack happened. Yesterday I decided not to play with the faith if btc38 gets hacked as bter did. I downloaded a wallet thinking how more than 3 months have passed and how something had to change. Nothing!! I sent over 10 crash reports etc.. I cannot even import the wallet from my json file anymore. I lost it completely and sold all of my BTS this morning at the loss. I just don't have nowhere to hold them. Wallet doesn't work, web wallet is not secure, exchange - there is no way I am holding my money over there anymore. I will rather miss on some of the BTS growth if it happens than to lose all of my money how it could have happened with bter.

Now I am very tech savy. I've been in BTC for over 2 years, NXT since the beginnings and BTS as well. If I have lost my mind, what do you think will happen to a complete noob??

From my perspective the new wallet is not overrated, it is completely essential!!!

P.S. I am reading today that people can't even withdraw their BTS from bter since the faulty wallet. Completely understandable.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Tuck Fheman on March 13, 2015, 01:27:31 pm

You have a terrible attitude and nobody owes you anything.

What are you doing to make bitshares better besides bitching?

maybe, just maybe they helped fund bitshares and without that funding bitshares would not be here today???

if that's the case it appears they helped "make bitshares better" by helping it exist in the first place.

i dunno.

maybe he met his deadline for funding, but is a little miffed that the deadlines aren't being met on the other end (which he funded).

who knows why people vent.

maybe it's the way those who funded the project get treated when they simply want to vent their frustration and perhaps it does do them some good to get it off their chest and perhaps it lights a fire under the collective dev-ass. who knows.

all i do know is bitching about people bitching seems like an excellent solution to making bitshares better!

deleting threads is another solution. that really helps make bitshares better. gagging the devs, also helps make bitshares better.

meeting deadlines, transparency and all that good coding stuff, bah that's for amateurs and it definitely doesn't affect price (complainers do!).

imho, after all is said and done, i don't think anyone here gives a damn about the "complainers", they're simply taking their own frustration they have in the bitshares project out on the vocal few who aren't afraid to ruin some perceived forum reputation.

if the price of bts was 10k satoshi no one would give a damn what any of the "complainers" are saying. everyone would ignore them.

it's all about price.

the "complainer's" complainers are simply expressing their displeasure in the price via the other complainer.

they're both complaining about the price, one simply wants to appear like the "good guy" so he takes his price frustration out on the "complainer".

is any of it making bitshares better? can any of this nonsense really make bitshares worse?

no.

the code is the only thing that makes bitshares good/bad and unless you code, you're in the back seat paying for gas while you watch others drive all over the place while constantly telling you "in a little bit" every time you ask, "are we there yet?!".

that's my 2 bitsilver.






Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on March 13, 2015, 02:42:43 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/a3Uu4zG.png)
Why the fuck the release data changed again and again?
This is a very  slow progress.
Thats why the price was acting like a shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You have a terrible attitude and nobody owes you anything.

What are you doing to make bitshares better besides bitching?
terrible attitude?thats the fucking reality.
Don‘t acting you do a lot to bitshares,bitch.
I have tons of shares to vote  for 100% delegate,I bought and mined PTS since day 1,you dare say i do nothing to bitshares?
你们这些老外一个个就是装逼犯,一天不装逼就不舒服

I understand the frustration with the delayed release, but as toast posted a while ago, 1.0 is over hyped and shouldn't be a huge catalyst or mystery potion for the price.

Still, throwing temper tantrums and spewing insults isn't going to get more people to buy bitshares or get the devs to even consider your opinion.  Why not focus all this energy on something productive for bitshares? Unless of course you want to see it fail...

I agree that is overrated and that it shouldn't bring nothing new to the price because it is essential to have a working wallet.

Let me give you my example:

Until November I managed to have a BTSX wallet on my computer. Then things started glitching. Every new update was slower and crashing more and more. Numerous crash reports etc.. I lost my mind with it and transferred all of my BTS to btc38. I couldn't anymore wait for the wallet to re-synchronize and re-index. My BTS were still on the exchange when bter hack happened. Yesterday I decided not to play with the faith if btc38 gets hacked as bter did. I downloaded a wallet thinking how more than 3 months have passed and how something had to change. Nothing!! I sent over 10 crash reports etc.. I cannot even import the wallet from my json file anymore. I lost it completely and sold all of my BTS this morning at the loss. I just don't have nowhere to hold them. Wallet doesn't work, web wallet is not secure, exchange - there is no way I am holding my money over there anymore. I will rather miss on some of the BTS growth if it happens than to lose all of my money how it could have happened with bter.

Now I am very tech savy. I've been in BTC for over 2 years, NXT since the beginnings and BTS as well. If I have lost my mind, what do you think will happen to a complete noob??

From my perspective the new wallet is not overrated, it is completely essential!!!

P.S. I am reading today that people can't even withdraw their BTS from bter since the faulty wallet. Completely understandable.

I read stuff like this and for a long time Dan has talked about the wallet being stable and I am not sure what to think.

I use the wallet EVERY SINGLE DAY.. have been for months now all without any issue. I am trading every single day with it.. a little slow yeah.. do I get the occasional crash.. yes.. usually when I am rushing to click on something before all the data loads it will cause a crash.. I just learned not to do that. Nonetheless.. I don't think you should consider your experience as what everyone else is experiencing.. nor am I considering mine to be the norm.. btw.. I am just using the windows wallet.. what version you were using is unclear.

I guess the point is moot now though since you sold out... ironicly I am buying everyday.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: cn-members on March 13, 2015, 03:00:57 pm

Why the fuck the release data changed again and again?
This is a very  slow progress.
Thats why the price was acting like a shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You have a terrible attitude and nobody owes you anything.

What are you doing to make bitshares better besides bitching?
terrible attitude?thats the fucking reality.
Don‘t acting you do a lot to bitshares,bitch.
I have tons of shares to vote  for 100% delegate,I bought and mined PTS since day 1,you dare say i do nothing to bitshares?
你们这些老外一个个就是装逼犯,一天不装逼就不舒服

I understand the frustration with the delayed release, but as toast posted a while ago, 1.0 is over hyped and shouldn't be a huge catalyst or mystery potion for the price.

Still, throwing temper tantrums and spewing insults isn't going to get more people to buy bitshares or get the devs to even consider your opinion.  Why not focus all this energy on something productive for bitshares? Unless of course you want to see it fail...

I agree that is overrated and that it shouldn't bring nothing new to the price because it is essential to have a working wallet.

Let me give you my example:

Until November I managed to have a BTSX wallet on my computer. Then things started glitching. Every new update was slower and crashing more and more. Numerous crash reports etc.. I lost my mind with it and transferred all of my BTS to btc38. I couldn't anymore wait for the wallet to re-synchronize and re-index. My BTS were still on the exchange when bter hack happened. Yesterday I decided not to play with the faith if btc38 gets hacked as bter did. I downloaded a wallet thinking how more than 3 months have passed and how something had to change. Nothing!! I sent over 10 crash reports etc.. I cannot even import the wallet from my json file anymore. I lost it completely and sold all of my BTS this morning at the loss. I just don't have nowhere to hold them. Wallet doesn't work, web wallet is not secure, exchange - there is no way I am holding my money over there anymore. I will rather miss on some of the BTS growth if it happens than to lose all of my money how it could have happened with bter.

Now I am very tech savy. I've been in BTC for over 2 years, NXT since the beginnings and BTS as well. If I have lost my mind, what do you think will happen to a complete noob??

From my perspective the new wallet is not overrated, it is completely essential!!!

P.S. I am reading today that people can't even withdraw their BTS from bter since the faulty wallet. Completely understandable.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=14911.0 (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=14911.0)
follow this , you'll be able to restore your old backup .
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Empirical1.2 on March 17, 2015, 12:20:11 pm
I think the circa 0.05 CNY and $20 million is a key support level.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: vlight on March 17, 2015, 12:25:07 pm
I think the circa 0.05 CNY and $20 million is a key support level.

It should be at $20 billion. This is not fair that all those latecomers can buy at IPO price or lower.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: luckybit on March 17, 2015, 02:52:58 pm
I think the circa 0.05 CNY and $20 million is a key support level.

I don't think so.  I'm predicting $15-18 million as the actual price. I think BTS currently are overpriced but thats my opinion.

The reason I think this is because BTS has a lot of competition to deal with in the coming months. Ethereum is about to launch. Counterparty is catching on fire again. Omni/Mastercoin has Factom, NXT is still innovating, this is a tough market.

Bitshares and Darkcoin in my opinion are tied but because Bitshares has more momentum at this moment it's barely keeping a lead. Ethereum will probably take away that momentum as people will start to sell Bitshares to get Ethers for diversification.

Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: luckybit on March 17, 2015, 02:53:30 pm
I think the circa 0.05 CNY and $20 million is a key support level.

It should be at $20 billion. This is not fair that all those latecomers can buy at IPO price or lower.

Maybe in 5 or 10 years if we hold on. If we do reach 20 billion Bitcoin will have reached in the hundreds of billions. I think before we can reach 20 billion we'd need Turing complete scripting and for Bitcoin to have gone mainstream. People need to be introduced to basic cryptocurrency before they understand Bitshares.

Also Bitshares is going to have to keep innovating. If it stops innovating the other competitors aren't going to stop.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: oldman on March 17, 2015, 02:59:52 pm
I think the circa 0.05 CNY and $20 million is a key support level.

It should be at $20 billion. This is not fair that all those latecomers can buy at IPO price or lower.

This is an opportunity for angel investors to increase their stake without unduly increasing cost basis.

The forum has gone dark, the devs are coding like mad bastards, the spring is being wound for the next jump.

$20 billion is plausible, as is $100B and $1T and on. But it's going to take years, perhaps decades, to get there.

Folks that invested in Apple, Microsoft etc. made their fortunes 10, 20 years after their initial investments.

BTC and BTS are no different. Anyone with a significant stake now is likely to be very wealthy in 10 years....
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: jsidhu on March 17, 2015, 03:00:12 pm
I think the circa 0.05 CNY and $20 million is a key support level.

I don't think so.  I'm predicting $15-18 million as the actual price. I think BTS currently are overpriced but thats my opinion.

The reason I think this is because BTS has a lot of competition to deal with in the coming months. Ethereum is about to launch. Counterparty is catching on fire again. Omni/Mastercoin has Factom, NXT is still innovating, this is a tough market.

Bitshares and Darkcoin in my opinion are tied but because Bitshares has more momentum at this moment it's barely keeping a lead. Ethereum will probably take away that momentum as people will start to sell Bitshares to get Ethers for diversification.
We are oversold atm.. We usually match nxt price so we are off by a bit it will sync up again so good buy here
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: btswildpig on March 17, 2015, 03:22:02 pm
I think the circa 0.05 CNY and $20 million is a key support level.

I don't think so.  I'm predicting $15-18 million as the actual price. I think BTS currently are overpriced but thats my opinion.

The reason I think this is because BTS has a lot of competition to deal with in the coming months. Ethereum is about to launch. Counterparty is catching on fire again. Omni/Mastercoin has Factom, NXT is still innovating, this is a tough market.

Bitshares and Darkcoin in my opinion are tied but because Bitshares has more momentum at this moment it's barely keeping a lead. Ethereum will probably take away that momentum as people will start to sell Bitshares to get Ethers for diversification.
We are oversold atm.. We usually match nxt price so we are off by a bit it will sync up again so good buy here

with centralized exchange , oversold is possible .
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: TurkeyLeg on March 17, 2015, 05:02:15 pm
Could part of the disconnect regarding the desktop client be related to hardware? I have no problems running BTS and DVS clients simultaneously and they sync within minutes - but I am running them on a developer spec MacBook Pro...I'm pretty sure if I tried to run the clients on my T440 I would not have the same experience....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: kenCode on March 17, 2015, 05:30:21 pm
IMO, right NOW is the time to be buying up BTS. At 0.00003btc, BTS is at its floor, especially with Moonstone coming out, an awesome nullstreet Newsletter goin out every month, Bitshares TV gettin the word out now, wallet.bitshares.org, name associations (bitpay/bitshares, overstock/bitshares, etc) bein thrown around... it's just a matter of time right now.
 
If I was you, I'd get over to metaexchange.info ASAP. Putting even 20 bux into BTS is a smart move. My BTC ain't doin squat.
I'd love to see tools like Quatloo Trader arbitraging BTS too. I'm comm with fyrstikken on that as we speak.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Stan on March 17, 2015, 06:07:05 pm
Also Bitshares is going to have to keep innovating. If it stops innovating the other competitors aren't going to stop.

Heh.  That's one thing we've never been accused of.   :)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: btswildpig on March 17, 2015, 06:25:11 pm
hmm....I wonder if everybody withdraw BTS from centralized exchange now , what will happen .......

all these oversold BTS ..... feels weird ....
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: luckybit on March 17, 2015, 07:02:01 pm
I think the circa 0.05 CNY and $20 million is a key support level.

It should be at $20 billion. This is not fair that all those latecomers can buy at IPO price or lower.

This is an opportunity for angel investors to increase their stake without unduly increasing cost basis.

The forum has gone dark, the devs are coding like mad bastards, the spring is being wound for the next jump.

$20 billion is plausible, as is $100B and $1T and on. But it's going to take years, perhaps decades, to get there.

Folks that invested in Apple, Microsoft etc. made their fortunes 10, 20 years after their initial investments.

BTC and BTS are no different. Anyone with a significant stake now is likely to be very wealthy in 10 years....

What is a signficant stake?
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: luckybit on March 17, 2015, 07:02:25 pm
I think the circa 0.05 CNY and $20 million is a key support level.

I don't think so.  I'm predicting $15-18 million as the actual price. I think BTS currently are overpriced but thats my opinion.

The reason I think this is because BTS has a lot of competition to deal with in the coming months. Ethereum is about to launch. Counterparty is catching on fire again. Omni/Mastercoin has Factom, NXT is still innovating, this is a tough market.

Bitshares and Darkcoin in my opinion are tied but because Bitshares has more momentum at this moment it's barely keeping a lead. Ethereum will probably take away that momentum as people will start to sell Bitshares to get Ethers for diversification.
We are oversold atm.. We usually match nxt price so we are off by a bit it will sync up again so good buy here

Is NXT inflating the shares?
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Stan on March 17, 2015, 08:19:17 pm
I think the circa 0.05 CNY and $20 million is a key support level.

It should be at $20 billion. This is not fair that all those latecomers can buy at IPO price or lower.

This is an opportunity for angel investors to increase their stake without unduly increasing cost basis.

The forum has gone dark, the devs are coding like mad bastards, the spring is being wound for the next jump.

$20 billion is plausible, as is $100B and $1T and on. But it's going to take years, perhaps decades, to get there.

Folks that invested in Apple, Microsoft etc. made their fortunes 10, 20 years after their initial investments.

BTC and BTS are no different. Anyone with a significant stake now is likely to be very wealthy in 10 years....

What is a signficant stake?

Take "very wealthy" and divide it by "awesome growth factor".
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: gamey on March 17, 2015, 09:34:24 pm
Could part of the disconnect regarding the desktop client be related to hardware? I have no problems running BTS and DVS clients simultaneously and they sync within minutes - but I am running them on a developer spec MacBook Pro...I'm pretty sure if I tried to run the clients on my T440 I would not have the same experience....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lots of problems.  Development is on Macs.  With laptops you don't have brownouts.  THe other day we had a cold snap and my desktop that runs the wallet crashed during a brown out.  Took me multiple steps and hours to fix it.  (Wallet was corrupted, had to reimport another one - after realizing and going through resynching the whole chain)  With a stable laptop you never have to deal with this.

Then there is SSD vs traditional harddrive.  SSD eliminates performance hit from seek times so spinning HD makes the problem even worse when it does occur.  It makes people acutely more aware of the problems.

It is a lot more stable than it used to be but it really is the type of program suited for a datacenter more than joe's desktop.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: oldman on March 18, 2015, 04:00:18 am
I think the circa 0.05 CNY and $20 million is a key support level.

It should be at $20 billion. This is not fair that all those latecomers can buy at IPO price or lower.

This is an opportunity for angel investors to increase their stake without unduly increasing cost basis.

The forum has gone dark, the devs are coding like mad bastards, the spring is being wound for the next jump.

$20 billion is plausible, as is $100B and $1T and on. But it's going to take years, perhaps decades, to get there.

Folks that invested in Apple, Microsoft etc. made their fortunes 10, 20 years after their initial investments.

BTC and BTS are no different. Anyone with a significant stake now is likely to be very wealthy in 10 years....

What is a signficant stake?

> 1M BTS
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: btswildpig on March 18, 2015, 04:08:02 am
I think the circa 0.05 CNY and $20 million is a key support level.

It should be at $20 billion. This is not fair that all those latecomers can buy at IPO price or lower.

This is an opportunity for angel investors to increase their stake without unduly increasing cost basis.

The forum has gone dark, the devs are coding like mad bastards, the spring is being wound for the next jump.

$20 billion is plausible, as is $100B and $1T and on. But it's going to take years, perhaps decades, to get there.

Folks that invested in Apple, Microsoft etc. made their fortunes 10, 20 years after their initial investments.

BTC and BTS are no different. Anyone with a significant stake now is likely to be very wealthy in 10 years....

What is a signficant stake?

> 1M BTS

dang.....still short ...
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: sudo on March 22, 2015, 01:15:18 am
 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: lzr1900 on March 22, 2015, 03:15:39 am
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Tuck Fheman on March 22, 2015, 09:22:50 pm
(http://blog.redbeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/floorcave.gif)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Tuck Fheman on March 23, 2015, 05:33:55 am
BTS is at its floor

(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/364/5/9/yao_ming_meme_by_lecatinga-d4kpe13.jpg)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: yiminh on March 23, 2015, 07:37:30 am
Also Bitshares is going to have to keep innovating. If it stops innovating the other competitors aren't going to stop.

Heh.  That's one thing we've never been accused of.   :)

You are not innovating, you are put in a lot of useless features, introduse tones of bugs, creates unbelivable complexities, hardforks and inflate the BTS cap, thus destroyed the BTS price, job well done
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: xeroc on March 23, 2015, 09:04:24 am
You are not innovating
Do you even read what you write?
Let me give you counter examples:
- DPOS
- MPA
- TITAN
- VOTE
- ...

you are put in a lot of useless features
name just one!

introduse tones of bugs
Sure .. that's how coding works .. that's by the way why the release number is
0.7.0 and not 3.4 or even 10 (X) ... The sofware is still labeled beta .. If you
are not fine with that.. dont use it.. don't invest into it..

creates unbelivable complexities
I can believe almost everything .. except that that *they* introduce complexity
.. That's just wrong .. The market forced them to introduce extra complexity ..
and the people are still asking for more complex feature (i.e. relative orders)

We can feel lucky the devs are still considering them. Some other request have
been denied as too complex to implement, too!!

Quote
hardforks and inflate the BTS cap
.. not .. again ..
You are not find with the merger .. fork the blockchain and start your own.
period!

Quote
thus destroyed the BTS price, job well done
They not even sold for tax purpose .. At least Stan noted somewhere that he
NEVER sold a single Larmier (phun inteded) ..
So they are for sure not the once 'destroying' the price .. it's the market
participants that *still don't get it*(tm)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: pc on March 23, 2015, 11:10:41 am

introduse tones of bugs
Sure .. that's how coding works ..

Argh! No, not really. But bugs do happen.


 that's by the way why the release number is
0.7.0 and not 3.4 or even 10 (X) ... The sofware is still labeled beta .. If you
are not fine with that.. dont use it.. don't invest into it..

+1 ! https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=7962.0
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: kenCode on March 23, 2015, 12:11:04 pm
Is NXT inflating the shares?

I'd say it's very easy to manipulate the crypto markets right now.
The volatility is low which can cause knee jerks if someone does a pumpndump.
Looking at coinmarketcap reveals a flatline of percentages in either direction.
 
Inflating shares can be quite easy right now.
 
Lord Rothschild said it best a couple weeks ago with zerohedge:
"we are faced with a geopolitical situation as dangerous as any we have faced since World War II."
"equities are not well supported by current valuations"
"exposing equities to a potentially sharp correction"
"we expect to see in the next one to three years" - here he is saying be calm. he has to give a timeline. so in other words, we may have less than one year before the "sharp correction".
 
Those of you who got in mid last year are probably very antsy by now.
You know exactly how valuable the Bitshares technology, offerings and philosophy is.
If you're not buying BTS right now, even if it hasn't hit the absolute bottom, you're missing out IMO.
 
There is no longer any doubt in my mind that DPOS and Bitshares/Bitassets are our white knight.
As soon as an HD mobile wallet is out, wallet.bitshares.org includes 2FA and Moonstone is rockin, I'm putting 90% of everything I own in here. I'll retain some PM just in case they make crypto illegal too, or proxy out the crypto websites or something. Worst case, u know.
 
If you are an awesome coder, please assist the guys on Github. Every little bit helps.
  https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares/issues
If you like social media, get every social site (i have an xls of 326 sites) linked to wallet.bitshares.org
If you like politics for some reason, contact every elected Rep you can and let them know about bitAssets.
If you have connections in banking, walk them thru the wallet.bitshares.org site.
If you enjoy sales then show every centralized exchange why/how they can upgrade to the Bitshares platform.
If you work with the media (alt or msm) show them the bitshares.org site.
Investment/asset/fund managers.. Show them https://wallet.bitshares.org/#/markets
If you want to see certain features, start a forum thread and detail how it should work, where it appears, etc.
If you have a friend in a poor, oppressed country, send them to wallet.bitshares.org
 
This is the time to buy in. Right now. This is *enough* of a bottom for me. The number of shares you buy won't change. They're value might go down for a few months until the suppression becomes more difficult, but realistically, we'll all be seeing growth and profits in less than 9 months from today. You won't get another chance like this to buy in at such a low price. That goes for all the cryptos, not just BTS and bitAssets.
 
Bitshares has become my white knight.
My hat's off to the Larimer's and Delegates who are workin their frikn booties off right now fixing and adding.
Thank You all for this, from the bottom of my heart, thank you.
 
Peace thru Crypto
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on March 23, 2015, 12:23:51 pm
Is NXT inflating the shares?

I'd say it's very easy to manipulate the crypto markets right now.
The volatility is low which can cause knee jerks if someone does a pumpndump.
Looking at coinmarketcap reveals a flatline of percentages in either direction.
 
Inflating shares can be quite easy right now.
 
Lord Rothschild said it best a couple weeks ago with zerohedge:
"we are faced with a geopolitical situation as dangerous as any we have faced since World War II."
"equities are not well supported by current valuations"
"exposing equities to a potentially sharp correction"
"we expect to see in the next one to three years" - here he is saying be calm. he has to give a timeline. so in other words, we may have less than one year before the "sharp correction".
 
Those of you who got in mid last year are probably very antsy by now.
You know exactly how valuable the Bitshares technology, offerings and philosophy is.
If you're not buying BTS right now, even if it hasn't hit the absolute bottom, you're missing out IMO.
 
There is no longer any doubt in my mind that DPOS and Bitshares/Bitassets are our white knight.
As soon as an HD mobile wallet is out, wallet.bitshares.org includes 2FA and Moonstone is rockin, I'm putting 90% of everything I own in here. I'll retain some PM just in case they make crypto illegal too, or proxy out the crypto websites or something. Worst case, u know.
 
If you are an awesome coder, please assist the guys on Github. Every little bit helps.
  https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares/issues
If you like social media, get every social site (i have an xls of 326 sites) linked to wallet.bitshares.org
If you like politics for some reason, contact every elected Rep you can and let them know about bitAssets.
If you have connections in banking, walk them thru the wallet.bitshares.org site.
If you enjoy sales then show every centralized exchange why/how they can upgrade to the Bitshares platform.
If you work with the media (alt or msm) show them the bitshares.org site.
Investment/asset/fund managers.. Show them https://wallet.bitshares.org/#/markets
If you want to see certain features, start a forum thread and detail how it should work, where it appears, etc.
If you have a friend in a poor, oppressed country, send them to wallet.bitshares.org
 
This is the time to buy in. Right now. This is *enough* of a bottom for me. The number of shares you buy won't change. They're value might go down for a few months until the suppression becomes more difficult, but realistically, we'll all be seeing growth and profits in less than 9 months from today. You won't get another chance like this to buy in at such a low price. That goes for all the cryptos, not just BTS and bitAssets.
 
Bitshares has become my white knight.
My hat's off to the Larimer's and Delegates who are workin their frikn booties off right now fixing and adding.
Thank You all for this, from the bottom of my heart, thank you.
 
Peace thru Crypto

Well said..  +5%
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: xiahui135 on March 23, 2015, 01:13:53 pm
because bitshares is unusable, and people can not use it to create value. so bitshares is useless now.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: kenCode on March 23, 2015, 01:24:20 pm
because bitshares is unusable, and people can not use it to create value. so bitshares is useless now.

I have to disagree, even tho I too am antsy to see new features and bug fixes and more features etc. There's no denying the Yield that I am earning now that I would not have been earning with Wall Street or a bank.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: btswildpig on March 23, 2015, 01:27:44 pm
because bitshares is unusable, and people can not use it to create value. so bitshares is useless now.

I have to disagree, even tho I too am antsy to see new features and bug fixes and more features etc. There's no denying the Yield that I am earning now that I would not have been earning with Wall Street or a bank.

what about the cost of the spread due to in and out of the system for fiat or BTC ?
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: yiminh on March 23, 2015, 02:16:55 pm
You are not innovating
Do you even read what you write?
Let me give you counter examples:
- DPOS
- MPA
- TITAN
- VOTE
- ...

you are put in a lot of useless features
name just one!

introduse tones of bugs
Sure .. that's how coding works .. that's by the way why the release number is
0.7.0 and not 3.4 or even 10 (X) ... The sofware is still labeled beta .. If you
are not fine with that.. dont use it.. don't invest into it..

creates unbelivable complexities
I can believe almost everything .. except that that *they* introduce complexity
.. That's just wrong .. The market forced them to introduce extra complexity ..
and the people are still asking for more complex feature (i.e. relative orders)

We can feel lucky the devs are still considering them. Some other request have
been denied as too complex to implement, too!!

Quote
hardforks and inflate the BTS cap
.. not .. again ..
You are not find with the merger .. fork the blockchain and start your own.
period!

Quote
thus destroyed the BTS price, job well done
They not even sold for tax purpose .. At least Stan noted somewhere that he
NEVER sold a single Larmier (phun inteded) ..
So they are for sure not the once 'destroying' the price .. it's the market
participants that *still don't get it*(tm)

BTS will never bottom unless you wake up and face the reality, BTS is at all time low, everyone investing in BTS lost money except those scammers who got in for free.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: vlight on March 23, 2015, 02:29:25 pm
BTS will never bottom unless you wake up and face the reality, BTS is at all time low, everyone investing in BTS lost money except those scammers who got in for free.

So, if we all "wake up" and admit that "BTS is at all time low, everyone investing in BTS lost money except those scammers who got in for free", then BTS price will go up ?? ?
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Empirical1.2 on March 23, 2015, 02:58:15 pm
The new BTS is structured as a company and derives it's valuation primarily from the market's perception of the development and adoption of the product, BitAssets.

BitAsset adoption is anemic and there's a large gap between where BitAssets are and where they need to be for even existing shareholders to adopt them to any meaningful degree.  https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=14831.msg192017#msg192017

Development costs money. BTS is primarily funding development via dilution. Therefore the lower the price goes the less competitive BTS becomes & the less likely it is that it will be successful.

Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: luckybit on March 23, 2015, 03:07:11 pm
because bitshares is unusable, and people can not use it to create value. so bitshares is useless now.

I have to disagree, even tho I too am antsy to see new features and bug fixes and more features etc. There's no denying the Yield that I am earning now that I would not have been earning with Wall Street or a bank.

Aren't you the guy who has 80% of his money locked in as BitAssets?
You probably seem like a genius now. You should make a thread so other people can avoid losing money because by now you probably just gained quite a bit.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: kenCode on March 23, 2015, 03:28:56 pm
@yiminh +5% +5%
 
I love this thread. The price will be this, no, the price will be that, no wait, the cap should be going up! OMG you guys come on..
 
You could post this exact same thread when the price hits $1 or $5 or $500, whatever.
Stop quibbling over where a bottom is at, who cares, seriously.
 
Get in, get out, stop loss, trade.
 
See also; Cashflow 202: http://www.amazon.com/Rich-Dad-Cashflow-202/dp/B002LUBAT2
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: fuzzy on March 23, 2015, 03:48:07 pm
100% agree with you on pretty much everything Ken...though I wince to read Mr. Rothschild quoted anywhere---no matter how true his words.  :P
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: cube on March 23, 2015, 03:56:02 pm
Stop quibbling over where a bottom is at, who cares, seriously.

Yes, STOP quibbling.  We do care about the price because the developers and delegates depend on it to cover their cost.  They do need to feed and pay rent to survive. 

But START thinking of how we can help BitShares to succeed.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: kenCode on March 23, 2015, 04:08:05 pm
... START thinking of how we can help BitShares to succeed.


If you are an awesome coder, please assist the guys on Github. Every little bit helps.
  https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares/issues
If you like social media, get every social site (i have an xls of 326 sites) linked to wallet.bitshares.org
If you like politics for some reason, contact every elected Rep you can and let them know about bitAssets.
If you have connections in banking, walk them thru the wallet.bitshares.org site.
If you enjoy sales then show every centralized exchange why/how they can upgrade to the Bitshares platform.
If you work with the media (alt or msm) show them the bitshares.org site.
Investment/asset/fund managers.. Show them https://wallet.bitshares.org/#/markets
If you want to see certain features, start a forum thread and detail how it should work, where it appears, etc.
If you have a friend in a poor, oppressed country, send them to wallet.bitshares.org
 
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: fuzzy on March 23, 2015, 04:08:15 pm
Stop quibbling over where a bottom is at, who cares, seriously.

Yes, STOP quibbling.  We do care about the price because the developers and delegates depend on it to cover their cost.  They do need to feed and pay rent to survive. 

But START thinking of how we can help BitShares to succeed.

 +5%
The only thing that will make bitshares not succeed imho is if our community gives up on it.  The most important lesson I have learned (and it is a frigging HARD lesson) is that when you build a community, it takes longer than a year to get the foundation completely built and you will have many peaks and valleys.  We continue using it and it there will be something you NEVER saw coming, that will initiate ignition of the rocket to take us into space.  Then, once you reach the moon, it will be rinse and repeat....
People are not patient, and if timelines do not fit precisely how they perceive them, many are willing to go with something less valuable that promises far more than what they had built up to that point...just so they can feel certain of a big win (even if it is just an illusion).

Anyway, I have to talk to BM and Stan about something sometime in the coming day or two...but I think if it goes through, you guys are going to all be very very happy.  Not saying this to get hopes up, because it is really all up to the BitShares team right now, but there is a huge opportunity that just lined up and all I need is for them to listen and say yes.  If that happens....I'll be smiling despite my wife wanting to kill me over jealousy toward the bitshares community, and she will likely be smiling too when she figures it all out.  God I am so pumped right now.  Really wish I could tell you the details as though it was set in stone :P
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: inarizushi on March 23, 2015, 04:08:50 pm
The market is broken, and nobody even mention it ? That's what's happening : https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=15089.0. It's IMPOSSIBLE to short, therefore the BTS cannot do anything else than falling. The peg cannot hold. Why is the broken market still running ? It's so infuriating. All shorters are at huge risks.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: zerosum on March 23, 2015, 04:11:37 pm
- ...

you are put in a lot of useless features
name just one!


Useless or at the very least extremely badly timed i.e. before working bitAssets and their market place.

-TITAN - the 800 pound gorilla in the room.

- Improvement complete incompatibility with BTC.

- ordering short orders by collateral

-working on VOTE and pitching VOTE in California (together with the whole preparation for it and considering VOTE the cornerstone of the BTS marketing)

-mixing up block producers with people working for the blockchain - leading to the BTS paying too much or not enough all the time to such workers.

- starting to build key-graph into BTS.

- mail system.

- posting messages on account walls

-Sparkle - we will take over the world by DPOS mining....

- prediction markets

- bingo

I am sure I have missed at least 50% of the them...
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: fuzzy on March 23, 2015, 04:18:17 pm
Stop quibbling over where a bottom is at, who cares, seriously.

Yes, STOP quibbling.  We do care about the price because the developers and delegates depend on it to cover their cost.  They do need to feed and pay rent to survive. 

But START thinking of how we can help BitShares to succeed.

 +5%
The only thing that will make bitshares not succeed imho is if our community gives up on it.  The most important lesson I have learned (and it is a frigging HARD lesson) is that when you build a community, it takes longer than a year to get the foundation completely built and you will have many peaks and valleys.  We continue using it and it there will be something you NEVER saw coming, that will initiate ignition of the rocket to take us into space.  Then, once you reach the moon, it will be rinse and repeat....
People are not patient, and if timelines do not fit precisely how they perceive them, many are willing to go with something less valuable that promises far more than what they had built up to that point...just so they can feel certain of a big win (even if it is just an illusion).

Anyway, I have to talk to BM and Stan about something sometime in the coming day or two...but I think if it goes through, you guys are going to all be very very happy.  Not saying this to get hopes up, because it is really all up to the BitShares team right now, but there is a huge opportunity that just lined up and all I need is for them to listen and say yes.  If that happens....I'll be smiling despite my wife wanting to kill me over jealousy toward the bitshares community, and she will likely be smiling too when she figures it all out.  God I am so pumped right now.  Really wish I could tell you the details as though it was set in stone :P

- ...

you are put in a lot of useless features
name just one!


Useless or at the very least extremely badly timed i.e. before working bitAssets and their market place.

-TITAN - the 500 pond gorilla in the room.

- Improvement complete incompatibility with BTC.

- ordering short orders by collateral

-working on VOTE and pitching VOTE in California (together with the whole preparation for it and considering VOTE the cornerstone of the BTS marketing)

-mixing up block producers with people working for the blockchain - leading to the BTS paying too much or not enough all the time to such workers.

- starting to build key-graph into BTS.

- mail system.

- posting messages on account walls

-Sparkle - we will take over the world by DPOS mining....

- prediction markets

- bingo

I am sure I have missed at least 50% of the them...

Can't deny any of what you just said, but there are many problems with other cryptos, too....and we know that eventually the broken shorting (probably the chief reason for BTS's current discount) will eventually be fixed so as soon as that happens it will be good to go again---though I am sure it will take some time to regain what was lost. 
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: kenCode on March 23, 2015, 04:19:24 pm
... when you build a community, it takes longer than a year to get the foundation completely built and you will have many peaks and valleys.
... People are not patient, and if timelines do not fit precisely how they perceive them, many are willing to go with something less valuable that promises far more than what they had built up to that point...just so they can feel certain of a big win (even if it is just an illusion).

 - bingo
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Ander on March 23, 2015, 04:30:19 pm
100% agree with you on pretty much everything Ken...though I wince to read Mr. Rothschild quoted anywhere---no matter how true his words.  :P

Yes, people always drag out that quote about 10 times before the true bottom.
True blood wouldve been if it hit .5 cent last night.  True blood was Jan 13 in bitcoin when it was down 40% within a 24 hour period.

That said, the volume today in BTS was significant, and this could be a bottom, IF this level holds, and we continue to bounce.  The market engine being broken and the resulting attempt to manipulate the price down by bitUSD whales in order to ruin the longs is a good potential bottom.  If they succeed, then these whales 'steal' a bunch of BTS from the bitUSD shorts right at the bottom, and then they have incentive to drive it back up again.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: fuzzy on March 23, 2015, 04:43:59 pm
100% agree with you on pretty much everything Ken...though I wince to read Mr. Rothschild quoted anywhere---no matter how true his words.  :P

Yes, people always drag out that quote about 10 times before the true bottom.
True blood wouldve been if it hit .5 cent last night.  True blood was Jan 13 in bitcoin when it was down 40% within a 24 hour period.

That said, the volume today in BTS was significant, and this could be a bottom, IF this level holds, and we continue to bounce.  The market engine being broken and the resulting attempt to manipulate the price down by bitUSD whales in order to ruin the longs is a good potential bottom.  If they succeed, then these whales 'steal' a bunch of BTS from the bitUSD shorts right at the bottom, and then they have incentive to drive it back up again.

Oh Ander, there you go again screwing me...the biggest BTS whale here...when I was preparing to drink the blood running through the streets and become an all-powerful market vampire....
thank you greatly.  >:(
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Ander on March 23, 2015, 04:56:14 pm
I'm not sure how I screwed you...
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Tuck Fheman on March 23, 2015, 06:54:08 pm
everyone investing in BTS lost money except those scammers who got in for free.

please elaborate.

FWIW, I feel like anyone buying at this price is 'scamming' the ignorant ... and I'm personally responsible for 'scamming' a lot of ignorant people this week.

I want to slap the panic sellers and alert them to the mistake they are making ... and I do, unless the person is being an ass during their exit speech.

And if there are those making it clear they are exiting and there's no turning back, I find it hard to pass up on such a great deal and I feel the need to help them along at a faster pace (since they were leaving anyway).

More for the hodlers ... and at a better price!
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Tuck Fheman on March 23, 2015, 06:57:13 pm
I love this thread. The price will be this, no, the price will be that, no wait, the cap should be going up! OMG you guys come on..

This thread is the new https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.239420 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.239420).
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: kenCode on March 23, 2015, 08:27:18 pm
How Ripple Rips you: "The founders of Ripple Labs created 100 billion XRP at Ripple's inception. No more can be created according to the rules of the Ripple protocol. Of the 100 billion created, 20 billion XRP were retained by the creators, seeders, venture capital companies and other founders. The remaining 80 billion were given to Ripple Labs. Ripple Labs intends to distribute and sell 55 of that 80 billion XRP to users and strategic partners. Ripple Labs also had a giveaway of under 200 million XRP (0.002% of all XRP) via World Community Grid that was later discontinued.[29] Ripple Labs will retain the remaining 25 billion"
 - gizmoh (bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=87919)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: fuzzy on March 23, 2015, 08:29:19 pm
I'm not sure how I screwed you...

By giving away my master plan! 
I have been solely whaling this BTS drop with my 500+ million BTS!

If it weren't for that pesky Ander, it would have succeeded too... :(

How Ripple Rips you: "The founders of Ripple Labs created 100 billion XRP at Ripple's inception. No more can be created according to the rules of the Ripple protocol. Of the 100 billion created, 20 billion XRP were retained by the creators, seeders, venture capital companies and other founders. The remaining 80 billion were given to Ripple Labs. Ripple Labs intends to distribute and sell 55 of that 80 billion XRP to users and strategic partners. Ripple Labs also had a giveaway of under 200 million XRP (0.002% of all XRP) via World Community Grid that was later discontinued.[29] Ripple Labs will retain the remaining 25 billion"
 - gizmoh (bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=87919)

The very very sad thing about all this is how many people I constantly watch in cryptocurrency focusing so much on the price that they forget why we got into crypto in the first place.  Instead of changing the paradigm to one that empowers everyone, they are willing to lie to others to make a quick buck---and damn those they lie to. 

I was actually kicked from the Cryptocurrency Collectors Club for talking about the Ponzi nature of Nubits/Nushares while the admin pushed "the last thing we should be doing is calling out other cryptocurrencies.  We are all in this together!"  bs.  So sad. 

I personally am so pumped.  Let me explain why:

-MetaExchange
-3D Printing Alliance growing
-Open Source Hardware
-DataSecurity Shares
-MoonStone
-CryptoFresh
-LimeWallet
-Nathans Wallet
-MineBitShares
-PLAY
-MUSIC
-BitSharesTV
-NullStreet Marketers
-Other DACs some are considering working on that I am not at liberty to talk about
-...and many others I am not thinking of atm.

Not so very long ago we didn't have any of these....now we are making progress.  Now if only we can stop shooting ourselves in the foot by trying to be something we are not... :)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: oldman on March 24, 2015, 04:49:16 am
I'm not sure how I screwed you...

By giving away my master plan! 
I have been solely whaling this BTS drop with my 500+ million BTS!

If it weren't for that pesky Ander, it would have succeeded too... :(

How Ripple Rips you: "The founders of Ripple Labs created 100 billion XRP at Ripple's inception. No more can be created according to the rules of the Ripple protocol. Of the 100 billion created, 20 billion XRP were retained by the creators, seeders, venture capital companies and other founders. The remaining 80 billion were given to Ripple Labs. Ripple Labs intends to distribute and sell 55 of that 80 billion XRP to users and strategic partners. Ripple Labs also had a giveaway of under 200 million XRP (0.002% of all XRP) via World Community Grid that was later discontinued.[29] Ripple Labs will retain the remaining 25 billion"
 - gizmoh (bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=87919)

The very very sad thing about all this is how many people I constantly watch in cryptocurrency focusing so much on the price that they forget why we got into crypto in the first place.  Instead of changing the paradigm to one that empowers everyone, they are willing to lie to others to make a quick buck---and damn those they lie to. 

I was actually kicked from the Cryptocurrency Collectors Club for talking about the Ponzi nature of Nubits/Nushares while the admin pushed "the last thing we should be doing is calling out other cryptocurrencies.  We are all in this together!"  bs.  So sad. 

I personally am so pumped.  Let me explain why:

-MetaExchange
-3D Printing Alliance growing
-Open Source Hardware
-DataSecurity Shares
-MoonStone
-CryptoFresh
-LimeWallet
-Nathans Wallet
-MineBitShares
-PLAY
-MUSIC
-BitSharesTV
-NullStreet Marketers
-Other DACs some are considering working on that I am not at liberty to talk about
-...and many others I am not thinking of atm.

Not so very long ago we didn't have any of these....now we are making progress.  Now if only we can stop shooting ourselves in the foot by trying to be something we are not... :)

There seems to be an expectation that BTS is a little speed boat zipping towards the land of insta-riches.

BTS is a juggernaut that is going to roll over the world. Slowly, inexorably.

It is picking up momentum but folks can't see it.

Pity. I'll just keep DCAing each week and see ya'll in five years...
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: fuzzy on March 24, 2015, 05:01:05 am
I'm not sure how I screwed you...

By giving away my master plan! 
I have been solely whaling this BTS drop with my 500+ million BTS!

If it weren't for that pesky Ander, it would have succeeded too... :(

How Ripple Rips you: "The founders of Ripple Labs created 100 billion XRP at Ripple's inception. No more can be created according to the rules of the Ripple protocol. Of the 100 billion created, 20 billion XRP were retained by the creators, seeders, venture capital companies and other founders. The remaining 80 billion were given to Ripple Labs. Ripple Labs intends to distribute and sell 55 of that 80 billion XRP to users and strategic partners. Ripple Labs also had a giveaway of under 200 million XRP (0.002% of all XRP) via World Community Grid that was later discontinued.[29] Ripple Labs will retain the remaining 25 billion"
 - gizmoh (bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=87919)

The very very sad thing about all this is how many people I constantly watch in cryptocurrency focusing so much on the price that they forget why we got into crypto in the first place.  Instead of changing the paradigm to one that empowers everyone, they are willing to lie to others to make a quick buck---and damn those they lie to. 

I was actually kicked from the Cryptocurrency Collectors Club for talking about the Ponzi nature of Nubits/Nushares while the admin pushed "the last thing we should be doing is calling out other cryptocurrencies.  We are all in this together!"  bs.  So sad. 

I personally am so pumped.  Let me explain why:

-MetaExchange
-3D Printing Alliance growing
-Open Source Hardware
-DataSecurity Shares
-MoonStone
-CryptoFresh
-LimeWallet
-Nathans Wallet
-MineBitShares
-PLAY
-MUSIC
-BitSharesTV
-NullStreet Marketers
-Other DACs some are considering working on that I am not at liberty to talk about
-...and many others I am not thinking of atm.

Not so very long ago we didn't have any of these....now we are making progress.  Now if only we can stop shooting ourselves in the foot by trying to be something we are not... :)

There seems to be an expectation that BTS is a little speed boat zipping towards the land of insta-riches.

BTS is a juggernaut that is going to roll over the world. Slowly, inexorably.

It is picking up momentum but folks can't see it.

Pity. I'll just keep DCAing each week and see ya'll in five years...

To Oldman,

You are not only "old" but wise.  5 years is about the point I think we will be at when we are truly a juggernaut too, but my timeline already started over a year ago, so it is actually closer to 4 in my mind...of course this is just splitting hairs and takes attention away from the main point:  Patience will reward us handsomely. 

I am seeing so many amazing things going on behind the scenes...

Oh, btw, I forgot two:
Roadscape and Bitscape's roadtrip, Rune and Riverhead's UIA....
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on March 24, 2015, 05:15:49 am
Fun fact... it took less than 12hrs from all the crying about the market engine being broken today to it being fixed and making most of the commentary that attached/attacked with that null and void and look rather.. umm.. <fill in the blank>.

It's fixed.. you will have to switch to a new default complaint card... lets make it a good one.. I want to keep buying at this price as long as possible honestly. :)

Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: inarizushi on March 24, 2015, 08:59:26 am
Fun fact... it took less than 12hrs from all the crying about the market engine being broken today to it being fixed and making most of the commentary that attached/attacked with that null and void and look rather.. umm.. <fill in the blank>.

It's fixed.. you will have to switch to a new default complaint card... lets make it a good one.. I want to keep buying at this price as long as possible honestly. :)

I've been rather bullish all the way down, and supporting the system by shorting. I'm okay losing money when the price goes down, I'm okay losing BTS when the price goes down, but losing BTS because of a programming error and being laughed at, that's shitty.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: fuzzy on March 24, 2015, 09:25:03 am
Fun fact... it took less than 12hrs from all the crying about the market engine being broken today to it being fixed and making most of the commentary that attached/attacked with that null and void and look rather.. umm.. <fill in the blank>.

It's fixed.. you will have to switch to a new default complaint card... lets make it a good one.. I want to keep buying at this price as long as possible honestly. :)

I've been rather bullish all the way down, and supporting the system by shorting. I'm okay losing money when the price goes down, I'm okay losing BTS when the price goes down, but losing BTS because of a programming error and being laughed at, that's shitty.

It is definitely shitty.  It does hurt.  100% agreed.  However, I will also say that no matter how painful we should always remember that we are working with something that is really still in Beta.

When it is no longer Beta...and the risks are significantly lower of bugs causing problems....make sure you are not shorting BTS :)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: vlight on March 24, 2015, 12:20:02 pm
rekt
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Chuckone on March 24, 2015, 05:39:44 pm
I'm not sure how I screwed you...

By giving away my master plan! 
I have been solely whaling this BTS drop with my 500+ million BTS!

If it weren't for that pesky Ander, it would have succeeded too... :(

How Ripple Rips you: "The founders of Ripple Labs created 100 billion XRP at Ripple's inception. No more can be created according to the rules of the Ripple protocol. Of the 100 billion created, 20 billion XRP were retained by the creators, seeders, venture capital companies and other founders. The remaining 80 billion were given to Ripple Labs. Ripple Labs intends to distribute and sell 55 of that 80 billion XRP to users and strategic partners. Ripple Labs also had a giveaway of under 200 million XRP (0.002% of all XRP) via World Community Grid that was later discontinued.[29] Ripple Labs will retain the remaining 25 billion"
 - gizmoh (bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=87919)

The very very sad thing about all this is how many people I constantly watch in cryptocurrency focusing so much on the price that they forget why we got into crypto in the first place.  Instead of changing the paradigm to one that empowers everyone, they are willing to lie to others to make a quick buck---and damn those they lie to. 

I was actually kicked from the Cryptocurrency Collectors Club for talking about the Ponzi nature of Nubits/Nushares while the admin pushed "the last thing we should be doing is calling out other cryptocurrencies.  We are all in this together!"  bs.  So sad. 

I personally am so pumped.  Let me explain why:

-MetaExchange
-3D Printing Alliance growing
-Open Source Hardware
-DataSecurity Shares
-MoonStone
-CryptoFresh
-LimeWallet
-Nathans Wallet
-MineBitShares
-PLAY
-MUSIC
-BitSharesTV
-NullStreet Marketers
-Other DACs some are considering working on that I am not at liberty to talk about
-...and many others I am not thinking of atm.

Not so very long ago we didn't have any of these....now we are making progress.  Now if only we can stop shooting ourselves in the foot by trying to be something we are not... :)

When I see all those initiatives coming together I really get the feeling Bitshares is going to be HUGE, and I'm not talking market cap-wise, but feature-wise. When I look at market cap, the only thing it tells me is that several whales have lost faith and that some traders are riding the down trend. Is it market manipulation or a general sentiment that Bitshares isn't going anywhere? I honestly don't know.

The danger we face is if the market cap stays this low long enough, all the 100% delegates won't be able to put in as much time as they use to in Bitshares, because they'll have to work full time on other projects to pay their bills and feed their family.

If the market cap could get back up to at least $75M in a reasonable amount of time, it will at least secure a relatively decent salary to all those 100% delegates, and limit the risk of having those delegates leave their jobs for other more profitable projects. I'm sure all of them are truly dedicated to Bitshares, but everybody needs to pay their bills.

From there, I wouldn't mind if the market cap stays at the same level for a couple of years, I'm in here for the long run.

When investing, your best friend is time.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Tuck Fheman on March 26, 2015, 07:45:59 am
(https://41.media.tumblr.com/f9f3f0f3821e3acd3c05de29a4914a76/tumblr_nlt6vwSktp1rtef2wo1_1280.png)

that may have been the max? you now cannot sell bitUSD. it's back.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: vlight on March 31, 2015, 01:30:53 pm
What's going on with Doge? BitShares got pushed to #6  :-X
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: nomoreheroes7 on March 31, 2015, 01:51:10 pm
What's going on with Doge? BitShares got pushed to #6  :-X

Glitch on CMC. BTC38 has the most volume and price at 52 sat, CMC is reporting 70 sat overall. Not sure where the discrepancy comes from.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: btswildpig on March 31, 2015, 02:13:42 pm
What's going on with Doge? BitShares got pushed to #6  :-X

Glitch on CMC. BTC38 has the most volume and price at 52 sat, CMC is reporting 70 sat overall. Not sure where the discrepancy comes from.

coinmarketcap often plays such discrepancy . 38% off from the actual dogecoin price
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: fuzzy on March 31, 2015, 02:58:25 pm
What's going on with Doge? BitShares got pushed to #6  :-X

Glitch on CMC. BTC38 has the most volume and price at 52 sat, CMC is reporting 70 sat overall. Not sure where the discrepancy comes from.

coinmarketcap often plays such discrepancy . 38% off from the actual dogecoin price

So odd though that that discrepancy never seems to happen to push bitshares to new highs...
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Riverhead on April 02, 2015, 12:37:23 am
(https://41.media.tumblr.com/f9f3f0f3821e3acd3c05de29a4914a76/tumblr_nlt6vwSktp1rtef2wo1_1280.png)

that may have been the max? you now cannot sell bitUSD. it's back.

Don't forget about metaexchange :).

https://metaexchange.info/markets/BTC/bitUSD

#shamelessplugisshameless
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: clayop on April 02, 2015, 12:50:24 am
(https://41.media.tumblr.com/f9f3f0f3821e3acd3c05de29a4914a76/tumblr_nlt6vwSktp1rtef2wo1_1280.png)

that may have been the max? you now cannot sell bitUSD. it's back.

Don't forget about metaexchange :).

https://metaexchange.info/markets/BTC/bitUSD

#shamelessplugisshameless

Also, Blocktrades.us
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Riverhead on April 02, 2015, 02:03:57 am
Also, Blocktrades.us

 +5%
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: kenCode on April 02, 2015, 09:11:25 am
Don't forget about metaexchange :).
https://metaexchange.info/markets/BTC/bitUSD
#shamelessplugisshameless

 +5% +5% +5%
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: wasthatawolf on April 03, 2015, 03:09:22 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/BjhyHXE.png)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: yellowecho on April 03, 2015, 03:42:59 pm

(http://i.imgur.com/BjhyHXE.png)
correlation != causation

I miss seeing posts from BM and Toast too but let's not get ahead of ourselves


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: wasthatawolf on April 03, 2015, 04:29:31 pm
correlation != causation

Agreed, interesting nonetheless.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Empirical1.2 on April 03, 2015, 04:36:23 pm

(http://i.imgur.com/BjhyHXE.png)
correlation != causation

I miss seeing posts from BM and Toast too but let's not get ahead of ourselves


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with BM posting more however the loss of value is primarily due to the introduction of inflation & subsequent loss of crypto-currency status.

Bitcoin is an inefficient company that is wasteful and which can’t fund it’s own development and marketing. It doesn’t have any products on its blockchain.  Yet this ‘company’ is worth $3.5 Billion. Why? It is a popular crypto-currency with unchangeable supply rules. That is the product, a popular form of money with supply rules that aren’t changeable by man can become extremely valuable as Gold and Silver have shown.

BitSharesX was a Bitcoin challenger. It’s incredibly difficult to usurp the market leader but BTSX was on track to do it. With no inflation, more effective decentralisation and an incredibly fast blockchain that might also disintermediate centralised payment processors like BitPay, BTSX was arguably the strongest Bitcoin challenger on the market & was correctly valued as such. In addition it had a team of highly talented developers, money in the bank and was also developing the potential killer app, BitAssets which would allow people to move freely between a wide range of assets in a way that would benefit and generate revenue for holders of BitSharesX. It was also already hugely popular in Asia & growing in size by every community metric. It was amazing. The market correctly valued it at 0.00093 BTC and rising. It’s hard to imagine that with that trajectory and all the subsequent development we’ve enjoyed including web and mobile wallets and now a direct PM gateway too that BTS would be valued any less than $250 million at this stage and given the BTC capitulation at the beginning of the year may even as far-fetched as it sounds been in a much stronger position than even that.

Then the market realised the largest shareholder, main developer and overall leader was very serious about introducing dilution to turn BTSX into a self funding competitive company to maximise our ability to develop BitAssets & other blockchain based products and services. BitShares has since lost over 75% of it’s BTC & $ value. It is now viewed as a company and the market is evaluating the development, progress and adoption of BitAssets as the key valuation metric. Currently I would say BTS is valued fairly by the market for what it is now at the current stage. This unfortunately puts a lot of pressure on developers to constantly deliver.  It’s quite sad because BTSX as a crypto-currency was already largely developed and generating a bigger following every single month as opposed to our current constant state of value and community decline.

There are positive developments coming along and I wouldn’t be surprised to see a small reversal, potentially a bigger one if BitAssets can attract a niche market or create a popular product which uses BitAssets.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: bytemaster on April 03, 2015, 04:36:28 pm
correlation != causation

Agreed, interesting nonetheless.

I have gotten more done for the future of BTS in the past month than in the 3 months prior and everyone on the core team knows it.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: jaran on April 03, 2015, 04:50:22 pm

(http://i.imgur.com/BjhyHXE.png)
correlation != causation

I miss seeing posts from BM and Toast too but let's not get ahead of ourselves


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with BM posting more however the loss of value is primarily due to the introduction of inflation & subsequent loss of crypto-currency status.

Bitcoin is an inefficient company that is wasteful and which can’t fund it’s own development and marketing. It doesn’t have any products on its blockchain.  Yet this ‘company’ is worth $3.5 Billion. Why? It is a popular crypto-currency with unchangeable supply rules. That is the product, a popular form of money with supply rules that aren’t changeable by man can become extremely valuable as Gold and Silver have shown.

BitSharesX was a Bitcoin challenger. It’s incredibly difficult to usurp the market leader but BTSX was on track to do it. With no inflation, more effective decentralisation and an incredibly fast blockchain that might also disintermediate centralised payment processors like BitPay, BTSX was arguably the strongest Bitcoin challenger on the market & was correctly valued as such. In addition it had a team of highly talented developers, money in the bank and was also developing the potential killer app, BitAssets which would allow people to move freely between a wide range of assets in a way that would benefit and generate revenue for holders of BitSharesX. It was also already hugely popular in Asia & growing in size by every community metric. It was amazing. The market correctly valued it at 0.00093 BTC and rising. It’s hard to imagine that with that trajectory and all the subsequent development we’ve enjoyed including web and mobile wallets and now a direct PM gateway too that BTS would be valued any less than $250 million at this stage and given the BTC capitulation at the beginning of the year may even as far-fetched as it sounds been in a much stronger position than even that.

Then the market realised the largest shareholder, main developer and overall leader was very serious about introducing dilution to turn BTSX into a self funding competitive company to maximise our ability to develop BitAssets & other blockchain based products and services. BitShares has since lost over 75% of it’s BTC & $ value. It is now viewed as a company and the market is evaluating the development, progress and adoption of BitAssets as the key valuation metric. Currently I would say BTS is valued fairly by the market for what it is now at the current stage. This unfortunately puts a lot of pressure on developers to constantly deliver.  It’s quite sad because BTSX as a crypto-currency was already largely developed and generating a bigger following every single month as opposed to our current constant state of value and community decline.

There are positive developments coming along and I wouldn’t be surprised to see a small reversal, potentially a bigger one if BitAssets can attract a niche market or create a popular product which uses BitAssets.

I think this pretty much nails it. 

I wonder whats the point of inflation anymore?  I mean its had a negative effect on the community and will continue as long as it exists.  It has major problems where the "employees" have no clue what they are getting paid from day to day etc.

I bet that bitsharesX could have been a true self funding dac based on fees - meaning it hired and paid people set amounts based on its income (fees)


Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: kenCode on April 03, 2015, 04:55:06 pm
I have gotten more done for the future of BTS in the past month than in the 3 months prior and everyone on the core team knows it.

I know what it's like.
We're with you Dan, the community here handles most of the news anyway.
Just keep on keepin' on :)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: yellowecho on April 03, 2015, 04:56:46 pm
I wonder whats the point of inflation anymore?  I mean its had a negative effect on the community and will continue as long as it exists.  It has major problems where the "employees" have no clue what they are getting paid from day to day etc.

I bet that bitsharesX could have been a true self funding dac based on fees - meaning it hired and paid people set amounts based on its income (fees)

I agree.  Perhaps we should re-evaluate the inflation and weigh the pros and cons as it seems to have had a negative impact both short and long term.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: yellowecho on April 03, 2015, 04:58:37 pm
I have gotten more done for the future of BTS in the past month than in the 3 months prior and everyone on the core team knows it.
We love and appreciate you, Dan!  Keep up the awesome work  8)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: monsterer on April 03, 2015, 05:24:35 pm
Why? It is a popular crypto-currency with unchangeable supply rules.

Counter argument:

Why? Its the first real cryptocurrency and has been around the longest, nothing to do with supply rules.

To quote Come-from-Beyond:

Quote
You took Bitcoin weakness (necessity to pay money to electrical companies) and transformed it into your strength (self-funding). That was a smart engineering solution.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=940298.msg10895809#msg10895809
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: nomoreheroes7 on April 03, 2015, 05:35:26 pm
I have gotten more done for the future of BTS in the past month than in the 3 months prior and everyone on the core team knows it.

Hey, if keeping off the forum really is allowing you to bang out development like that then that's awesome. I'll take a more-or-less quiet but busting-ass BM if it means development pace is accelerated.  +5%

And @ Empirical: I think you're really, really overestimating the impact that dilution and the merger et al had on the BTS price. Just about every crypto in general has gone through the same phases: huge hype and price blowout followed by slow bleed. If nothing had changed supply-wise with BTS but the same promises remained unfulfilled (fiat on-ramps, marketing blitz, etc) I can pretty much guarantee we'd still be in about the same position price wise as we are today. Honestly it's just kind of how the markets work. Without real adoption it's nothing more than mass speculation, regardless of dilution etc.

I personally think the self-funding method of dilution is an incredible idea, and if the devs can truly knock out some key aspects/features in the next few months to raise the market cap, the self-funding will take on a life of its own.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: oco101 on April 03, 2015, 06:09:33 pm


I don’t think there’s anything wrong with BM posting more however the loss of value is primarily due to the introduction of inflation & subsequent loss of crypto-currency status.

Bitcoin is an inefficient company that is wasteful and which can’t fund it’s own development and marketing. It doesn’t have any products on its blockchain.  Yet this ‘company’ is worth $3.5 Billion. Why? It is a popular crypto-currency with unchangeable supply rules. That is the product, a popular form of money with supply rules that aren’t changeable by man can become extremely valuable as Gold and Silver have shown.

BitSharesX was a Bitcoin challenger. It’s incredibly difficult to usurp the market leader but BTSX was on track to do it. With no inflation, more effective decentralisation and an incredibly fast blockchain that might also disintermediate centralised payment processors like BitPay, BTSX was arguably the strongest Bitcoin challenger on the market & was correctly valued as such. In addition it had a team of highly talented developers, money in the bank and was also developing the potential killer app, BitAssets which would allow people to move freely between a wide range of assets in a way that would benefit and generate revenue for holders of BitSharesX. It was also already hugely popular in Asia & growing in size by every community metric. It was amazing. The market correctly valued it at 0.00093 BTC and rising. It’s hard to imagine that with that trajectory and all the subsequent development we’ve enjoyed including web and mobile wallets and now a direct PM gateway too that BTS would be valued any less than $250 million at this stage and given the BTC capitulation at the beginning of the year may even as far-fetched as it sounds been in a much stronger position than even that.

Then the market realised the largest shareholder, main developer and overall leader was very serious about introducing dilution to turn BTSX into a self-funding competitive company to maximise our ability to develop BitAssets & other blockchain based products and services. BitShares has since lost over 75% of it’s BTC & $ value. It is now viewed as a company and the market is evaluating the development, progress and adoption of BitAssets as the key valuation metric. Currently I would say BTS is valued fairly by the market for what it is now at the current stage. This unfortunately puts a lot of pressure on developers to constantly deliver.  It’s quite sad because BTSX as a crypto-currency was already largely developed and generating a bigger following every single month as opposed to our current constant state of value and community decline.

There are positive developments coming along and I wouldn’t be surprised to see a small reversal, potentially a bigger one if BitAssets can attract a niche market or create a popular product which uses BitAssets.

I see your points there, but there is no proof of what you are saying. NXT at one point had a market cap around 100 million there was not any major change since then and they are at 10 millions right now. No proof that  the inflation change created the decline. There are many factors that cause it, like  "pump and dump", btc price, poor marketing, not any major business deal, bad PR, bad wallet etc. I for one  thing that the self-funding model invented by Bitshares will be the used in every DAC in the future, I think it is absolutely genius. You forget also that if the market cap is big enough the dilution could practically disappear, in other word this could only be temporary on the startup phase of a DAC, the time where money are most need it and hard to come by. Even if Bitshare will not be the DAC that we all hoped it would be , they introduce so much innovation in the space that I'm pretty sure will stand the test of time. 
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Empirical1.2 on April 03, 2015, 06:29:40 pm
Why? It is a popular crypto-currency with unchangeable supply rules.

Counter argument:

Why? Its the first real cryptocurrency and has been around the longest, nothing to do with supply rules.

To quote Come-from-Beyond:

Quote
You took Bitcoin weakness (necessity to pay money to electrical companies) and transformed it into your strength (self-funding). That was a smart engineering solution.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=940298.msg10895809#msg10895809

CfB is absolutely right. Bitcoin is vastly inefficient with high and largely wasteful inflation. BTSX offered more effective decentralisation without the need for any inflation and was even profitable. With additional funds capable of being directed to developers and marketers. That was a genius engineering solution.

However I doubt Cfb is pushing to dilute NXT even though they could certainly use more funding. 

Quote
Counter argument:

Why? Its the first real cryptocurrency and has been around the longest, nothing to do with supply rules.

Do you think Bitcoin would have gained popularity if the Bitcoin foundation or early adopters got to decide on how much dilution Bitcoin should have the following year and where it should be directed? I highly doubt it. 

Q. You know that really successful, widely adopted form of money that shareholders choose the supply of?  (That isn't controlled by force)
A. No, me neither.

While shares in traditional companies have been used as a form of payment/exchange through history, this is not how those companies derive their value. Those companies derive their value based on their products and services. Traditional companies that can create shares exactly the way BTS does have been around for centuries, yet none have been widely adopted and gained value purely as a form of money. Bitcoin is different. Why? It has no product or service, yet it has a $3.5 Billion valuation and is used exclusively as a money. It's because unlike traditional shares, the supply of Bitcoin is pre-defined and can therefore be widely adopted purely as a form of money, very similarly to the reasons why gold and silver were adopted as a form of money.


I have gotten more done for the future of BTS in the past month than in the 3 months prior and everyone on the core team knows it.

Hey, if keeping off the forum really is allowing you to bang out development like that then that's awesome. I'll take a more-or-less quiet but busting-ass BM if it means development pace is accelerated.  +5%

And @ Empirical: I think you're really, really overestimating the impact that dilution and the merger et al had on the BTS price. Just about every crypto in general has gone through the same phases: huge hype and price blowout followed by slow bleed. If nothing had changed supply-wise with BTS but the same promises remained unfulfilled (fiat on-ramps, marketing blitz, etc) I can pretty much guarantee we'd still be in about the same position price wise as we are today. Honestly it's just kind of how the markets work. Without real adoption it's nothing more than mass speculation, regardless of dilution etc.

I personally think the self-funding method of dilution is an incredible idea, and if the devs can truly knock out some key aspects/features in the next few months to raise the market cap, the self-funding will take on a life of its own.

The BTSX share price clearly reflects a strong rise up until dilution became a serious reality after which we lost 50% of our value in less than a month. The forum posts at the time also show huge turmoil and division over dilution at the time. Going from debating when we would pass Litecoin to whether we would lose most of our value as a result of the move. It has proved to be the latter. It is hard to argue that it was not the major factor in the breaking of the strong uptrend and the cause of the huge decline in the BTSX price. Though there are many other contributing factors to speed of the decline in the months proceeding. 

I agree that a self funding BitAsset machine can be successful even without being backed by something structured like a limited form of money it's just a much harder task and because the products aren't patentable a crypto-currency can copy them very cheaply if they prove to be useful.
Also in favour of your argument, BTS is still at no.5 with lots of positive development all coming through in the next few months.



I see your points there, but there is no proof of what you are saying. NXT at one point had a market cap around 100 million there was not any major change since then and they are at 10 millions right now. No proof that  the inflation change created the decline. There are many factors that cause it, like  "pump and dump", btc price, poor marketing, not any major business deal, bad PR, bad wallet etc. I for one  thing that the self-funding model invented by Bitshares will be the used in every DAC in the future, I think it is absolutely genius. You forget also that if the market cap is big enough the dilution could practically disappear, in other word this could only be temporary on the startup phase of a DAC, the time where money are most need it and hard to come by. Even if Bitshare will not be the DAC that we all hoped it would be , they introduce so much innovation in the space that I'm pretty sure will stand the test of time.

I think there's ample proof that our specific decline was largely caused by dilution. I think NXT is a good example though in favour or your argument. I think NXT is vastly inferior though yet they are getting closer and closer to us with every passing month when dilution theory states the opposite, that we should be pulling further and further away. I think if NXT pass us in CAP that will be time to seriously re-evaluate the current model imo.

You're right that dilution could disappear once the CAP increases, this will be very positive for the share price. I'm unconvinced though that BTS will gain a large BTC comparable valuation and widespread adoption as a form of money in it's own right because there is always the spectre that someone may come up with an 'innovative' idea for diluting shareholders at a later stage.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Stan on April 03, 2015, 08:47:35 pm

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with BM posting more however the loss of value is primarily due to the introduction of inflation & subsequent loss of crypto-currency status.

Bitcoin is an inefficient company that is wasteful and which can’t fund it’s own development and marketing. It doesn’t have any products on its blockchain.  Yet this ‘company’ is worth $3.5 Billion. Why? It is a popular crypto-currency with unchangeable supply rules. That is the product, a popular form of money with supply rules that aren’t changeable by man can become extremely valuable as Gold and Silver have shown.

BitSharesX was a Bitcoin challenger. It’s incredibly difficult to usurp the market leader but BTSX was on track to do it. With no inflation, more effective decentralisation and an incredibly fast blockchain that might also disintermediate centralised payment processors like BitPay, BTSX was arguably the strongest Bitcoin challenger on the market & was correctly valued as such. In addition it had a team of highly talented developers, money in the bank and was also developing the potential killer app, BitAssets which would allow people to move freely between a wide range of assets in a way that would benefit and generate revenue for holders of BitSharesX. It was also already hugely popular in Asia & growing in size by every community metric. It was amazing. The market correctly valued it at 0.00093 BTC and rising. It’s hard to imagine that with that trajectory and all the subsequent development we’ve enjoyed including web and mobile wallets and now a direct PM gateway too that BTS would be valued any less than $250 million at this stage and given the BTC capitulation at the beginning of the year may even as far-fetched as it sounds been in a much stronger position than even that.

Then the market realised the largest shareholder, main developer and overall leader was very serious about introducing dilution to turn BTSX into a self funding competitive company to maximise our ability to develop BitAssets & other blockchain based products and services. BitShares has since lost over 75% of it’s BTC & $ value. It is now viewed as a company and the market is evaluating the development, progress and adoption of BitAssets as the key valuation metric. Currently I would say BTS is valued fairly by the market for what it is now at the current stage. This unfortunately puts a lot of pressure on developers to constantly deliver.  It’s quite sad because BTSX as a crypto-currency was already largely developed and generating a bigger following every single month as opposed to our current constant state of value and community decline.

"The current price is due to <fill in whatever you don't like about the union of all past decisions>."

 :)

BitShares has a fixed ceiling it will never reach and one-fifth the dilution of Bitcoin - which wastes its dilution instead of reinvesting it.  How does that disqualify one from being a currency and not the other?

Further, BitShares is a profitable company that produces smart-currencies as its products.  Products that are better in every way with none of the drawbacks you mention.  There is no inflation in BitAssets at all (relative to their underlying peg) and the underlying BTS can produce those stable currency products whether is gaining or falling in value.  BTS is not intended to be a currency itself, so a tiny amount of dilution has zero affect on the value proposition of its smart currency products.

Further, regardless of whether developers are paid in "mined" equity or existing equity from the AGS stash or 10% set aside for developers in the genesis block, the selling pressure they generate to pay their rent would be the same anyway.  That modicum of selling pressure is the cost of generating forward thrust.  There was no other source of thrust.  BTSX would have stopped advancing in the state it was in November.  If work had stopped, where would the price be?

BTSX would have stagnated with no further support while BitShares VOTE and DNS would be splitting the benefits of what BitShares is today - self funding of developers and other ecosystem entrepreneurs.  People always seem to forget what the alternatives were when the decisions were made.  The fact is that

The BTSX-only universe you are wishing for was not one of the choices available to us.

The only choices were to merge or commit fratricide - three block chains competing to the death for market depth and network effect (where BTSX was the only one unable to pay developers).  Imagine three different BitUSDs splitting the current market depth.

We are so incredibly much stronger than we were in November I can hardly believe it.  The market will catch up with that fact in due time.  In the meantime, I hope everybody enjoyed the March Madness sale!


Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: jaran on April 03, 2015, 09:01:50 pm
So the developers stuck around and are sticking around for less than $1k per month??  I highly doubt it...and i got the impression from other posts that they were actually "taken care of" behind the scenes.

I think the idea behind the merger was sound but the current dillution that pays employees in dilution is broken.

IMO we should push to move to payouts to employees cannot exceed fees.  Until such time that the fees are not enough to keep developers on there own the major stakeholders should be taking care of the developers behind the scenes  by reducing their stake.

Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Stan on April 03, 2015, 09:16:06 pm
So the developers stuck around and are sticking around for less than $1k per month??  I highly doubt it...and i got the impression from other posts that they were actually "taken care of" behind the scenes.

I think the idea behind the merger was sound but the current dillution that pays employees in dilution is broken.

IMO we should push to move to payouts to employees cannot exceed fees.  Until such time that the fees are not enough to keep developers on there own the major stakeholders should be taking care of the developers behind the scenes  by reducing their stake.

So let me get this straight.  You want major stakeholders to give them BTS to sell to pay their rent?

You see?  No difference.  Same selling pressure affecting price.

And you are advocating classic tragedy of the commons.  You want a few people to sacrifice so that everyone else can benefit.

Let's do a thought experiment:

Suppose there are three whales.  One has 2% and the others have 1%.  How would you divide up the bill?
Would they each pay the same amount based on being above some arbitrary whaleness threshold**?
Or would you say that the biggest whale owes twice as much?

Whichever logic you pick, now expand that out to all shareholders.
Either everybody chips in the same amount or everybody chips in according to the size of their stake.
Which is more fair to the little guys?
Obviously - proportional to their stake!

Guess what.  That's exactly what the current system does.

:)

 

**whaleness threshold = everybody with a bigger stake than me.  :)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: jaran on April 03, 2015, 09:44:50 pm
See I dont think the problem is the "Selling Pressure".  I think the problem is that people lost confidence because they now believe that there can be all this dilution.

So the point I was making was if we were to say adopt a policy of hey we can never dilute beyond the fees i think this would bring in more buyers and increase confidence.  In the meantime there is an issue where we need to get enough runway to keep the developers.

I know my comment about major stakeholders is not popular but my point is something has to give..i know there is no easy answer to fix the price imo. 

But that doesnt change the fact that a paying employees in share dilution has issues...they have no idea what they are going to make day to day...and b) it's so low at this point what is the point of it?  does it actually keep anyone developing? 
Title: What's happening with the price?
Post by: xiahui135 on April 03, 2015, 11:15:26 pm
I think DPOS is a good model. But as the money is given to delegates, it is not so attractive for miner. It means bts is harder than btc to attract more people in.
Essential of currency is to stand for credit. Why people will hold your money? Because they trust you. BTS itself lack credit, so there is little adoption of bit-asset. We should invest in UIA and other aspect to increase value of BTS itself. Attract people to use BTS(i mean the ecosystem). Then BTS will have the basis of credit, and then enough to make its currency widely adopt.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Stan on April 04, 2015, 01:17:18 am
See I dont think the problem is the "Selling Pressure".  I think the problem is that people lost confidence because they now believe that there can be all this dilution.

So the point I was making was if we were to say adopt a policy of hey we can never dilute beyond the fees i think this would bring in more buyers and increase confidence.  In the meantime there is an issue where we need to get enough runway to keep the developers.

I know my comment about major stakeholders is not popular but my point is something has to give..i know there is no easy answer to fix the price imo. 

But that doesnt change the fact that a paying employees in share dilution has issues...they have no idea what they are going to make day to day...and b) it's so low at this point what is the point of it?  does it actually keep anyone developing?

There are many things about human endeavors that don't work as well until they reach critical mass.  Market depth is one.  Human civilization size is another.  The number of kids on your block willing to play baseball. 

Try not to point to BitShares issues that improve with scale as problems with its design.  It must be bootstrapped through this early phase until it reaches critical mass in market depth and delegate pay and everything else.  Then watch out!

:)

Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: mike623317 on April 04, 2015, 02:16:31 am
BitShares has a fixed ceiling it will never reach and one-fifth the dilution of Bitcoin - which wastes its dilution instead of reinvesting it.  How does that disqualify one from being a currency and not the other?

Further, BitShares is a profitable company that produces smart-currencies as its products.  Products that are better in every way with none of the drawbacks you mention.  There is no inflation in BitAssets at all (relative to their underlying peg) and the underlying BTS can produce those stable currency products whether is gaining or falling in value.  BTS is not intended to be a currency itself, so a tiny amount of dilution has zero affect on the value proposition of its smart currency products.

Further, regardless of whether developers are paid in "mined" equity or existing equity from the AGS stash or 10% set aside for developers in the genesis block, the selling pressure they generate to pay their rent would be the same anyway.  That modicum of selling pressure is the cost of generating forward thrust.  There was no other source of thrust.  BTSX would have stopped advancing in the state it was in November.  If work had stopped, where would the price be?

BTSX would have stagnated with no further support while BitShares VOTE and DNS would be splitting the benefits of what BitShares is today - self funding of developers and other ecosystem entrepreneurs.  People always seem to forget what the alternatives were when the decisions were made.  The fact is that

The BTSX-only universe you are wishing for was not one of the choices available to us.

The only choices were to merge or commit fratricide - three block chains competing to the death for market depth and network effect (where BTSX was the only one unable to pay developers).  Imagine three different BitUSDs splitting the current market depth.

We are so incredibly much stronger than we were in November I can hardly believe it.  The market will catch up with that fact in due time.  In the meantime, I hope everybody enjoyed the March Madness sale!

Stan - this post should be a sticky. I couldn't agree more and needed this sanity check/reminder of where we are/came from in November.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Frodo on April 04, 2015, 09:03:33 am
BitShares has a fixed ceiling it will never reach and one-fifth the dilution of Bitcoin - which wastes its dilution instead of reinvesting it.  How does that disqualify one from being a currency and not the other?

Further, BitShares is a profitable company that produces smart-currencies as its products.  Products that are better in every way with none of the drawbacks you mention.  There is no inflation in BitAssets at all (relative to their underlying peg) and the underlying BTS can produce those stable currency products whether is gaining or falling in value.  BTS is not intended to be a currency itself, so a tiny amount of dilution has zero affect on the value proposition of its smart currency products.

Further, regardless of whether developers are paid in "mined" equity or existing equity from the AGS stash or 10% set aside for developers in the genesis block, the selling pressure they generate to pay their rent would be the same anyway.  That modicum of selling pressure is the cost of generating forward thrust.  There was no other source of thrust.  BTSX would have stopped advancing in the state it was in November.  If work had stopped, where would the price be?

BTSX would have stagnated with no further support while BitShares VOTE and DNS would be splitting the benefits of what BitShares is today - self funding of developers and other ecosystem entrepreneurs.  People always seem to forget what the alternatives were when the decisions were made.  The fact is that

The BTSX-only universe you are wishing for was not one of the choices available to us.

The only choices were to merge or commit fratricide - three block chains competing to the death for market depth and network effect (where BTSX was the only one unable to pay developers).  Imagine three different BitUSDs splitting the current market depth.

We are so incredibly much stronger than we were in November I can hardly believe it.  The market will catch up with that fact in due time.  In the meantime, I hope everybody enjoyed the March Madness sale!

Stan - this post should be a sticky. I couldn't agree more and needed this sanity check/reminder of where we are/came from in November.

 +5%

I'm really getting tired of all that delegate pay doom and gloom talk. I don't understand how our greatest advantage over all other crypto projects is constantly getting attacked in such a manner. Whereas Bitcoin with far higher inflation (and inefficient use) has still a market cap 200 times higher. And even more importantly is trading relatively stable at those prices.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: monsterer on April 04, 2015, 09:24:39 am
Do you think Bitcoin would have gained popularity if the Bitcoin foundation or early adopters got to decide on how much dilution Bitcoin should have the following year and where it should be directed? I highly doubt it. 

Actually, yes I do think it would have - the supply is one tiny part of the whole, it doesn't really change the nature of the currency, doesn't affect the buying/selling process, doesn't stand in the way of bitcoin's big innovation (the blockchain). Bitcoin is so much more than just an investment tool, and the same is true of bitshares.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: CalabiYau on April 04, 2015, 09:36:05 am
Long story short: I am buying  ;)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: fuzzy on April 04, 2015, 11:31:25 am
correlation != causation

Agreed, interesting nonetheless.

I have gotten more done for the future of BTS in the past month than in the 3 months prior and everyone on the core team knows it.

Except ultimately, BitShares is likely going to be even LESS inflationary than Bitcoin even with all delegates at 100% (and that won't happen).  So actually from everything I've read the Incorrect perception that BitShares is truly "inflationary" is a hard sell for those who have been around here reading the analysis over time on the forum. 

Bitcoin is going to change or die.  It cannot change, though, without pissing a bunch of people off, which will cause problems for it.  Bitcoin needs something better than the "Bitcoin foundation" to rule it. 

BitShares actually gives the citizenry a way to choose the course of BitShares in a more stable and less volatile way--BAKED INTO THE DAMNED CAKE!  This means that once we all figure out how to best utilize those tools (and some of those tools are built by people -- like bitsapphire and many others), our problems will not hold us back at all because we will more easily adapt to them. 

Everyone here does recognize BitShares is just a little bit over 1 year old and Bitcoin has been around for almost 7, right?  Let's everyone here do me a favor and lets promise to get on Mumble in 5 more years and look over this post together--and record the commentary.

One caveat though--I get to drink a bunch of Gin and laugh at all of you who are hanging your heads right now...and you have to laugh too, cause you will have to admit how ridiculous this fear was.   
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: fuzzy on April 04, 2015, 11:42:19 am
-MetaExchange
-3D Printing Alliance growing (ISG3D)
(http://i.imgur.com/q4X6pvB.png?1)
-Open Source Hardware
-DataSecurity Shares
-MoonStone
-CryptoFresh (bitscape & roadscape)
(http://i.imgur.com/3hv31za.jpg?1)
-LimeWallet
-Nathans Wallet
-MineBitShares
-PLAY
-MUSIC
-BitSharesTV
-NullStreet Marketers
-*CryptoSmith*
-*BeyondBitcoin.org* (when Stan gets the domain to Jabba
-*BitShares Island* 
(http://i.imgur.com/p3Vnl14.jpg)


And this isn't even talking about Chinese initiatives (like selling shares in berkshire hathaway)...
And as always...there are others I am not at liberty to talk about (yet).
Title: What's happening with the price?
Post by: xiahui135 on April 04, 2015, 02:00:31 pm
Btc has a larger inflation than bitshares now , but they just do not concentrate on it.  They just announce there will only be 21 million in total ever.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: EstefanTT on April 04, 2015, 02:41:28 pm
correlation != causation

Agreed, interesting nonetheless.

I have gotten more done for the future of BTS in the past month than in the 3 months prior and everyone on the core team knows it.

Except ultimately, BitShares is likely going to be even LESS inflationary than Bitcoin even with all delegates at 100% (and that won't happen).  So actually from everything I've read the Incorrect perception that BitShares is truly "inflationary" is a hard sell for those who have been around here reading the analysis over time on the forum. 

Bitcoin is going to change or die.  It cannot change, though, without pissing a bunch of people off, which will cause problems for it.  Bitcoin needs something better than the "Bitcoin foundation" to rule it. 

BitShares actually gives the citizenry a way to choose the course of BitShares in a more stable and less volatile way--BAKED INTO THE DAMNED CAKE!  This means that once we all figure out how to best utilize those tools (and some of those tools are built by people -- like bitsapphire and many others), our problems will not hold us back at all because we will more easily adapt to them. 

Everyone here does recognize BitShares is just a little bit over 1 year old and Bitcoin has been around for almost 7, right?  Let's everyone here do me a favor and lets promise to get on Mumble in 5 more years and look over this post together--and record the commentary.

One caveat though--I get to drink a bunch of Gin and laugh at all of you who are hanging your heads right now...and you have to laugh too, cause you will have to admit how ridiculous this fear was.   

It's a question I ask to myself a lot lately ; what does prevent bitcoin of upgrading his current noneffective tech & POW system to our BitShares way of doing things ? We would have the same tech but no market cap and no public reputation. That is not something that would hurt us but simply destroy the project.

Maybe it's not the best time to ask it, everybody is stressed enough with the price playing with our cortisol level but I'm probably not the only one who had this interrogation. An answer for someone with good knowledge about this could add some peace in some minds.

I don't postpone this question because, let's be reasonable, in a very near future BitShares will rock the world of cryptos and there won't be places for doubts anymore ... So, I enjoy the time of doubts and stressy questions, it won't last for long ;)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Stan on April 04, 2015, 03:10:09 pm
BitShares has a fixed ceiling it will never reach and one-fifth the dilution of Bitcoin - which wastes its dilution instead of reinvesting it.  How does that disqualify one from being a currency and not the other?

Further, BitShares is a profitable company that produces smart-currencies as its products.  Products that are better in every way with none of the drawbacks you mention.  There is no inflation in BitAssets at all (relative to their underlying peg) and the underlying BTS can produce those stable currency products whether is gaining or falling in value.  BTS is not intended to be a currency itself, so a tiny amount of dilution has zero affect on the value proposition of its smart currency products.

Further, regardless of whether developers are paid in "mined" equity or existing equity from the AGS stash or 10% set aside for developers in the genesis block, the selling pressure they generate to pay their rent would be the same anyway.  That modicum of selling pressure is the cost of generating forward thrust.  There was no other source of thrust.  BTSX would have stopped advancing in the state it was in November.  If work had stopped, where would the price be?

BTSX would have stagnated with no further support while BitShares VOTE and DNS would be splitting the benefits of what BitShares is today - self funding of developers and other ecosystem entrepreneurs.  People always seem to forget what the alternatives were when the decisions were made.  The fact is that

The BTSX-only universe you are wishing for was not one of the choices available to us.

The only choices were to merge or commit fratricide - three block chains competing to the death for market depth and network effect (where BTSX was the only one unable to pay developers).  Imagine three different BitUSDs splitting the current market depth.

We are so incredibly much stronger than we were in November I can hardly believe it.  The market will catch up with that fact in due time.  In the meantime, I hope everybody enjoyed the March Madness sale!

Stan - this post should be a sticky. I couldn't agree more and needed this sanity check/reminder of where we are/came from in November.

 +5%

I'm really getting tired of all that delegate pay doom and gloom talk. I don't understand how our greatest advantage over all other crypto projects is constantly getting attacked in such a manner. Whereas Bitcoin with far higher inflation (and inefficient use) has still a market cap 200 times higher. And even more importantly is trading relatively stable at those prices.

Actually, I left out one important Fun Fact:  In 5 months the share supply has increased from 2,498,764,342 to 2,505,960,283 for a net increase of 7,197,985 or 0.28%.    So, those who complain about dilution are asserting that a fraction of a percent worth of dilution is responsible for several hundred percent decline in price.

Now, it may be true that complaining about dilution is responsible for such a drop, but the dilution itself has been negligible.

:)

Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: yellowecho on April 04, 2015, 03:39:46 pm
Actually, I left out one important Fun Fact:  In 5 months the share supply has increased from 2,500,000,000 to 2,505,960,283 for a net increase of 5,960,283 or 0.24%.    So, those who complain about dilution are asserting that a fraction of a percent worth of dilution is responsible for several hundred percent decline in price.

Now, it may be true that complaining about dilution is responsible for such a drop, but the dilution itself has been negligible.

:)

Very good point!  This fact needs to spread like wild fire in the Chinese community since many had fears.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Stan on April 04, 2015, 03:41:50 pm
I edited my numbers to include the fact that we started slightly below 2.5 billion.  Same conclusion.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: pc on April 04, 2015, 03:59:32 pm
It's a question I ask to myself a lot lately ; what does prevent bitcoin of upgrading his current noneffective tech & POW system to our BitShares way of doing things ?

On the technical side, porting bitcoin to DPOS would be a major undertaking. Nobody would be willing to take the risk that something goes wrong along the way, because a mistake in that process could destroy bitcoin.

On the political side - NO WAY! The bitcoin community consists largely of PoW believers who wouldn't touch PoS or DPOS with a long pole. Ever. Even if a subset of the community did make such a move, the rest would stay behind and effectively fork bitcoin.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: fuzzy on April 04, 2015, 04:01:19 pm
It's a question I ask to myself a lot lately ; what does prevent bitcoin of upgrading his current noneffective tech & POW system to our BitShares way of doing things ?

On the technical side, porting bitcoin to DPOS would be a major undertaking. Nobody would be willing to take the risk that something goes wrong along the way, because a mistake in that process could destroy bitcoin.

On the political side - NO WAY! The bitcoin community consists largely of PoW believers who wouldn't touch PoS or DPOS with a long pole. Ever. Even if a subset of the community did make such a move, the rest would stay behind and effectively fork bitcoin.

This^^
Precisely this.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: mike623317 on April 04, 2015, 04:10:53 pm
And talking of bitcoin .... Bitcoin Foundation torn apart ..

"Dear Members,

I was elected on a platform of transparency and decentralization of core development. Since the beginning, the Foundation has been sorely lacking any transparency of its actions. I can no longer in good conscience hide the truth on what I have witnessed in the Bitcoin Foundation since I was elected last month.

First of all, the Bitcoin Foundation is effectively bankrupt. As a result of 2 years of ridiculous spending and poorly thought out decisions, they almost ran out of money in November of last year. In extremis, but way too late, they decided to select a new executive director during that time. That new director decided that the only way to still get funds at that point, was to focus solely on funding core development, in the hope that people would see that as a good cause. But people were smart enough not to trust the Foundation anymore. Despite it’s intentions, they failed to collect the necessary funds to support this idea. With the election in February-March, it became clear that people did not want the Foundation meddling with core development. The truth is that the Foundation’s plan was to hire even more core devs + to start a Bitcoin Standards Body. No organization should have this much control over Bitcoin, and a disaster was avoided.

When I joined on my first Board meeting, Jim Harper and myself immediately put forward a vote to have the board meeting recorded. We followed Robert’s rules of orders, and everyone else basically shut us down and failed to follow procedures. There were “more urgent” things to discuss (as you will see later, the urgent pattern was an excuse to just continue on their course and shut us up). It was critical for us to vote on a plan that would save the Foundation. When I mentioned that such a critical vote is all the more reason to make sure the whole meeting gets recorded, I was ignored. The Bitcoin Foundation hates transparency. If they would have been transparent then everyone would know there is no money left. Something I think the members have a right to know, wouldn’t you think? Members have a right to know that the current board failed to tell them the truth, and that their way of running the organization resulted in it going bankrupt. But instead of taking responsibility, they want to find the next executive director, that will come up with another magic plan. Ironically, being transparent from the start might have prevented this whole thing to begin with.
Everyone has the right to know the truth:

The Foundation has almost no money left, and just fired 90% of its people. Some will stay on as volunteers.
Core dev can no longer be funded by it, and Patrick Murck is trying to re-create a new Foundation just for core dev, because the current name is tarnished. Do not fall for this.
– The current Executive Director (Patrick Murck), will be gone in 2 weeks, and they are trying to find the next person to blame everything on.
– Jim Harper was threatened for doing a press release which was (barely) critical of the Foundation after he got elected. The Foundation tries to make sure we hide the truth by subtly threatening us on a regular basis.
– If I get asked to leave the Foundation for telling the truth, so be it. The truth is being told.
Moving forward:

– A special trust fund is being created and I will donate several 100k to pre-pay Gavin’s, Wladimirs and some other core devs wage for the next year (if they choose to accept). The control of this trust fund will be handed over to the core devs, who can decide who can join it. Alternatively, we can give voting power to everyone who puts money in it (pro-rata). I will also organize crowdfunds and help make this fund public. At no point do I want to have any control whatsoever.

– It is up to the members of the Bitcoin Foundation to decide what they want to do now. The bylaws allow for a special board meeting to be called by 15% of members. I would recommend you to do so and ask for all information to be released so you can learn the truth. Additionally I would recommend for you to replace the whole board if you want this organization to last. Alternatively you can vote to shut it down and get your money back. There might not be enough money left in the Foundation to pay its members back, but I will personally try to help make up the difference, even though I have not been part of it.

The lesson for all of us in Bitcoin is to never put any trust in a centralized org again that wanted to represent Bitcoin or the Core Development of Bitcoin.

Please provide feedback here on the Bitcoin forum.

Note: I totally expect the current Board members to try to place blame on me for whatever reason. They are very bad at taking personal responsibility. I have had several threats, but I’m releasing this anyway.

Olivier"
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: fuzzy on April 04, 2015, 04:15:10 pm
And talking of bitcoin .... Bitcoin Foundation torn apart ..

"Dear Members,

I was elected on a platform of transparency and decentralization of core development. Since the beginning, the Foundation has been sorely lacking any transparency of its actions. I can no longer in good conscience hide the truth on what I have witnessed in the Bitcoin Foundation since I was elected last month.

First of all, the Bitcoin Foundation is effectively bankrupt. As a result of 2 years of ridiculous spending and poorly thought out decisions, they almost ran out of money in November of last year. In extremis, but way too late, they decided to select a new executive director during that time. That new director decided that the only way to still get funds at that point, was to focus solely on funding core development, in the hope that people would see that as a good cause. But people were smart enough not to trust the Foundation anymore. Despite it’s intentions, they failed to collect the necessary funds to support this idea. With the election in February-March, it became clear that people did not want the Foundation meddling with core development. The truth is that the Foundation’s plan was to hire even more core devs + to start a Bitcoin Standards Body. No organization should have this much control over Bitcoin, and a disaster was avoided.

When I joined on my first Board meeting, Jim Harper and myself immediately put forward a vote to have the board meeting recorded. We followed Robert’s rules of orders, and everyone else basically shut us down and failed to follow procedures. There were “more urgent” things to discuss (as you will see later, the urgent pattern was an excuse to just continue on their course and shut us up). It was critical for us to vote on a plan that would save the Foundation. When I mentioned that such a critical vote is all the more reason to make sure the whole meeting gets recorded, I was ignored. The Bitcoin Foundation hates transparency. If they would have been transparent then everyone would know there is no money left. Something I think the members have a right to know, wouldn’t you think? Members have a right to know that the current board failed to tell them the truth, and that their way of running the organization resulted in it going bankrupt. But instead of taking responsibility, they want to find the next executive director, that will come up with another magic plan. Ironically, being transparent from the start might have prevented this whole thing to begin with.
Everyone has the right to know the truth:

The Foundation has almost no money left, and just fired 90% of its people. Some will stay on as volunteers.
Core dev can no longer be funded by it, and Patrick Murck is trying to re-create a new Foundation just for core dev, because the current name is tarnished. Do not fall for this.
– The current Executive Director (Patrick Murck), will be gone in 2 weeks, and they are trying to find the next person to blame everything on.
– Jim Harper was threatened for doing a press release which was (barely) critical of the Foundation after he got elected. The Foundation tries to make sure we hide the truth by subtly threatening us on a regular basis.
– If I get asked to leave the Foundation for telling the truth, so be it. The truth is being told.
Moving forward:

– A special trust fund is being created and I will donate several 100k to pre-pay Gavin’s, Wladimirs and some other core devs wage for the next year (if they choose to accept). The control of this trust fund will be handed over to the core devs, who can decide who can join it. Alternatively, we can give voting power to everyone who puts money in it (pro-rata). I will also organize crowdfunds and help make this fund public. At no point do I want to have any control whatsoever.

– It is up to the members of the Bitcoin Foundation to decide what they want to do now. The bylaws allow for a special board meeting to be called by 15% of members. I would recommend you to do so and ask for all information to be released so you can learn the truth. Additionally I would recommend for you to replace the whole board if you want this organization to last. Alternatively you can vote to shut it down and get your money back. There might not be enough money left in the Foundation to pay its members back, but I will personally try to help make up the difference, even though I have not been part of it.

The lesson for all of us in Bitcoin is to never put any trust in a centralized org again that wanted to represent Bitcoin or the Core Development of Bitcoin.

Please provide feedback here on the Bitcoin forum.

Note: I totally expect the current Board members to try to place blame on me for whatever reason. They are very bad at taking personal responsibility. I have had several threats, but I’m releasing this anyway.

Olivier"

wow...nice find man. Holy crap.  I think...this is overall a good thing if the "foundation" is breaking up. We will see how bitcoin guides itself though without voting and a system like that of delegates.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: NewMine on April 04, 2015, 04:25:38 pm
Actually, I left out one important Fun Fact:  In 5 months the share supply has increased from 2,500,000,000 to 2,505,960,283 for a net increase of 5,960,283 or 0.24%.    So, those who complain about dilution are asserting that a fraction of a percent worth of dilution is responsible for several hundred percent decline in price.

Now, it may be true that complaining about dilution is responsible for such a drop, but the dilution itself has been negligible.

:)

Very good point!  This fact needs to spread like wild fire in the Chinese community since many had fears.

Everyone knows that fact. They also know that all those numbers will keep getting bigger. Bigger in that way is perceived as not good. Why? Because in light of the genius idea to dilute and inflate, look what has happened to the share price. It going down, down, down despite all the Invictus innovations happening.

What's most amazing is you have multiple marketing delegates (and other delegates) collecting 100's of thousands of BTS and yet nothing is being done except a taxation to the chain at the expense of everyone else. Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot we need 1.0 before we can market anything.  It's a good thing nobody has ever made a teaser trailer for a movie yet to be released. I mean there is no way I just watched the Mad Max Fury Road trailer yesterday since it's not going to be released until next month. That would be idiotic to market something before it's release.

Also, it amazes me that the story of dilution and inflation was backed and reinforced by the fact that the Devs needed funding, yet here we are over 4 months later and the Devs have made a total of $3000 worth of BTS at current prices.  In their hindsight I know they know it was a bad idea as it has done more damage to their previous personal holdings than what it netted them in the meantime. Next time think things through and weigh the consequences and don't let the possible benefits blind you. Was it worth it?
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: fuzzy on April 04, 2015, 04:36:08 pm
Actually, I left out one important Fun Fact:  In 5 months the share supply has increased from 2,500,000,000 to 2,505,960,283 for a net increase of 5,960,283 or 0.24%.    So, those who complain about dilution are asserting that a fraction of a percent worth of dilution is responsible for several hundred percent decline in price.

Now, it may be true that complaining about dilution is responsible for such a drop, but the dilution itself has been negligible.

:)

Very good point!  This fact needs to spread like wild fire in the Chinese community since many had fears.

Everyone knows that fact. They also know that all those numbers will keep getting bigger. Bigger in that way is perceived as not good. Why? Because in light of the genius idea to dilute and inflate, look what has happened to the share price. It going down, down, down despite all the Invictus innovations happening.

What's most amazing is you have multiple marketing delegates (and other delegates) collecting 100's of thousands of BTS and yet nothing is being done except a taxation to the chain at the expense of everyone else. Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot we need 1.0 before we can market anything.  It's a good thing nobody has ever made a teaser trailer for a movie yet to be released. I mean there is no way I just watched the Mad Max Fury Road trailer yesterday since it's not going to be released until next month. That would be idiotic to market something before it's release.

Also, it amazes me that the story of dilution and inflation was backed and reinforced by the fact that the Devs needed funding, yet here we are over 4 months later and the Devs have made a total of $3000 worth of BTS at current prices.  In their hindsight I know they know it was a bad idea as it has done more damage to their previous personal holdings than what it netted them in the meantime. Next time think things through and weigh the consequences and don't let the possible benefits blind you. Was it worth it?

we do neeed a little more transparency from marketing delegates. Ill give you that...and only that.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: mdj on April 04, 2015, 04:57:54 pm
Actually, I left out one important Fun Fact:  In 5 months the share supply has increased from 2,498,764,342 to 2,505,960,283 for a net increase of 7,197,985 or 0.28%.    So, those who complain about dilution are asserting that a fraction of a percent worth of dilution is responsible for several hundred percent decline in price.

Now, it may be true that complaining about dilution is responsible for such a drop, but the dilution itself has been negligible.

:)

Good stats but I don't think anything can decline more than 100% unless we can go into negatives ;)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: CLains on April 04, 2015, 05:15:58 pm
fact is nearly all coins are in a downtrend, and fact is nxt, counterparty, mastercoin, ethereum, bitcoin foundation, etc. are struggling as much if not more than we are.. fact is everyone in crypto have underestimated the cost associated with revolutionizing finance. fact is if we all go up again to 150 million, bitshares devs would be making $10k a month. fact is there is a good chance the whole space, bitcoin included, is in its deceptive phase (https://plus.google.com/+PeterHDiamandis/posts/dWQFcpcws8V). fact is even at this price things are getting done that wouldn't have been without the delegate system. fact is most of the vc cash flowing into this space is going to solutions that break with honest principles, and they will suffer from centralized control down the line, just like gox did, just like ripple did, just like the bitcoin foundation did. fact is most people don't "get it" yet, and they won't until there is a new bubble, and by then we are ready with a decentralized, sound economically viable system.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Shentist on April 04, 2015, 05:21:34 pm
fact is nearly all coins are in a downtrend, and fact is nxt, counterparty, mastercoin, ethereum, bitcoin foundation, etc. are struggling as much if not more than we are.. fact is everyone in crypto have underestimated the cost associated with revolutionizing finance. fact is if we all go up again to 150 million, bitshares devs would be making $10k a month. fact is there is a good chance the whole space, bitcoin included, is in its deceptive phase (https://plus.google.com/+PeterHDiamandis/posts/dWQFcpcws8V). fact is even at this price things are getting done that wouldn't have been without the delegate system. fact is most of the vc cash flowing into this space is going to solutions that break with honest principles, and they will suffer from centralized control down the line, just like gox did, just like ripple did, just like the bitcoin foundation did. fact is most people don't "get it" yet, and they won't until there is a new bubble, and by then we are ready with a decentralized, sound economically viable system.

almost my own thoughts. We need now to lay the bricks and mortar to be prepared if someone needs an alternative.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: fuzzy on April 04, 2015, 06:40:58 pm
fact is nearly all coins are in a downtrend, and fact is nxt, counterparty, mastercoin, ethereum, bitcoin foundation, etc. are struggling as much if not more than we are.. fact is everyone in crypto have underestimated the cost associated with revolutionizing finance. fact is if we all go up again to 150 million, bitshares devs would be making $10k a month. fact is there is a good chance the whole space, bitcoin included, is in its deceptive phase (https://plus.google.com/+PeterHDiamandis/posts/dWQFcpcws8V). fact is even at this price things are getting done that wouldn't have been without the delegate system. fact is most of the vc cash flowing into this space is going to solutions that break with honest principles, and they will suffer from centralized control down the line, just like gox did, just like ripple did, just like the bitcoin foundation did. fact is most people don't "get it" yet, and they won't until there is a new bubble, and by then we are ready with a decentralized, sound economically viable system.

almost my own thoughts. We need now to lay the bricks and mortar to be prepared if someone needs an alternative.

They will. 

Of course, if NXT could get somewhat decent transaction times it would be a pretty solid platform... of course I specifically recall them making all their huge decisions in "pooled proof of stake" as Dan was on our Mumble hangouts telling people how he thought things needed to be done.  They got halfway there...because they took it from BM, but they didn't get all the way because we have BM. 
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: kenCode on April 04, 2015, 07:40:03 pm
fact is nearly all coins are in a downtrend, and fact is nxt, counterparty, mastercoin, ethereum, bitcoin foundation, etc. are struggling as much if not more than we are.. fact is everyone in crypto have underestimated the cost associated with revolutionizing finance. fact is if we all go up again to 150 million, bitshares devs would be making $10k a month. fact is there is a good chance the whole space, bitcoin included, is in its deceptive phase (https://plus.google.com/+PeterHDiamandis/posts/dWQFcpcws8V). fact is even at this price things are getting done that wouldn't have been without the delegate system. fact is most of the vc cash flowing into this space is going to solutions that break with honest principles, and they will suffer from centralized control down the line, just like gox did, just like ripple did, just like the bitcoin foundation did. fact is most people don't "get it" yet, and they won't until there is a new bubble, and by then we are ready with a decentralized, sound economically viable system.
almost my own thoughts. We need now to lay the bricks and mortar to be prepared if someone needs an alternative.

be prepared when the world is ready for the alternative.[/font]
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Empirical1.2 on April 04, 2015, 07:42:33 pm
fact is nearly all coins are in a downtrend, and fact is nxt, counterparty, mastercoin, ethereum, bitcoin foundation, etc. are struggling as much if not more than we are.. fact is everyone in crypto have underestimated the cost associated with revolutionizing finance. fact is if we all go up again to 150 million, bitshares devs would be making $10k a month. fact is there is a good chance the whole space, bitcoin included, is in its deceptive phase (https://plus.google.com/+PeterHDiamandis/posts/dWQFcpcws8V). fact is even at this price things are getting done that wouldn't have been without the delegate system. fact is most of the vc cash flowing into this space is going to solutions that break with honest principles, and they will suffer from centralized control down the line, just like gox did, just like ripple did, just like the bitcoin foundation did. fact is most people don't "get it" yet, and they won't until there is a new bubble, and by then we are ready with a decentralized, sound economically viable system.
almost my own thoughts. We need now to lay the bricks and mortar to be prepared if someone needs an alternative.

be prepared when the world is ready for the alternative.[/font]

I'm not sure you can blame the bear market for our poor performance since the merger.

Since the Merger on November 5th, the top alts have gained an average of 68% vs. BTC

DRK - UP 225%
XRP - UP 180%
STR - UP 125%
MAID - UP 45%
LTC - DOWN 35%
NXT -DOWN 25%
DGC - DOWN 20%
PAYCOIN - Did not exist

BitShares is the worst performer in the top 10 and has lost 55-65% in BTC terms since the merger.
(Since dilution became a serious reality obviously the numbers for BitShares are even worse and we’re down 70-75% vs. BTC) 

Bitcoin itself is down less 25% during that time.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: mdj on April 04, 2015, 07:49:04 pm

I'm not sure you can blame the bear market for our poor performance since the merger.

Since the Merger on November 5th, the top alts have gained an average of 68% vs. BTC

DRK - UP 225%
XRP - UP 180%
STR - UP 125%
MAID - UP 45%
LTC - DOWN 35%
NXT -DOWN 25%
DGC - DOWN 20%
PAYCOIN - Did not exist

BitShares is the worst performer in the top 10 and has lost 55-65% in BTC terms since the merger.
(Since dilution became a serious reality obviously the numbers for BitShares are even worse and we’re down 70-75% vs. BTC) 

Bitcoin itself is down less 25% during that time.

Very painful to see if spelt out, I really don't understand why Bitshares are taking such a hit though. If those other alts are considered to have a fair valuation then Bitshares is so so incredibly undervalued right now it's insane.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Troglodactyl on April 04, 2015, 08:17:43 pm
fact is nearly all coins are in a downtrend, and fact is nxt, counterparty, mastercoin, ethereum, bitcoin foundation, etc. are struggling as much if not more than we are.. fact is everyone in crypto have underestimated the cost associated with revolutionizing finance. fact is if we all go up again to 150 million, bitshares devs would be making $10k a month. fact is there is a good chance the whole space, bitcoin included, is in its deceptive phase (https://plus.google.com/+PeterHDiamandis/posts/dWQFcpcws8V). fact is even at this price things are getting done that wouldn't have been without the delegate system. fact is most of the vc cash flowing into this space is going to solutions that break with honest principles, and they will suffer from centralized control down the line, just like gox did, just like ripple did, just like the bitcoin foundation did. fact is most people don't "get it" yet, and they won't until there is a new bubble, and by then we are ready with a decentralized, sound economically viable system.
almost my own thoughts. We need now to lay the bricks and mortar to be prepared if someone needs an alternative.

be prepared when the world is ready for the alternative.[/font]

I'm not sure you can blame the bear market for our poor performance since the merger.

Since the Merger on November 5th, the top alts have gained an average of 68% vs. BTC

DRK - UP 225%
XRP - UP 180%
STR - UP 125%
MAID - UP 45%
LTC - DOWN 35%
NXT -DOWN 25%
DGC - DOWN 20%
PAYCOIN - Did not exist

BitShares is the worst performer in the top 10 and has lost 55-65% in BTC terms since the merger.
(Since dilution became a serious reality obviously the numbers for BitShares are even worse and we’re down 70-75% vs. BTC) 

Bitcoin itself is down less 25% during that time.
Is there something you hope to accomplish by constantly blaming low market cap on past decisions? The fact is, it's impossible to know where we'd be now had things been done differently, and reversing those decisions now would just destabilize things further and create conflict.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on April 04, 2015, 08:44:21 pm
fact is nearly all coins are in a downtrend, and fact is nxt, counterparty, mastercoin, ethereum, bitcoin foundation, etc. are struggling as much if not more than we are.. fact is everyone in crypto have underestimated the cost associated with revolutionizing finance. fact is if we all go up again to 150 million, bitshares devs would be making $10k a month. fact is there is a good chance the whole space, bitcoin included, is in its deceptive phase (https://plus.google.com/+PeterHDiamandis/posts/dWQFcpcws8V). fact is even at this price things are getting done that wouldn't have been without the delegate system. fact is most of the vc cash flowing into this space is going to solutions that break with honest principles, and they will suffer from centralized control down the line, just like gox did, just like ripple did, just like the bitcoin foundation did. fact is most people don't "get it" yet, and they won't until there is a new bubble, and by then we are ready with a decentralized, sound economically viable system.

Wow dude.  +5%

In a race you don't win by looking at where everyone else is at.. you win by keeping your focus ahead and your eye on the finish line.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: liondani on April 04, 2015, 09:43:01 pm


Very painful to see if spelt out, I really don't understand why Bitshares are taking such a hit though.

I think they have lost trust  ... And it is quite difficult to win it back...



Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 997D

Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: mf-tzo on April 04, 2015, 09:44:04 pm
Despite the whole negativity and the major hit in BTS price I am pretty confident that soon (by the end of 2015) BTS will be x 10 of the current market cap (So What...). Unless for some reason the Devs just give up, which I doubt they will.BM is a man with a vision and there are few people with vision nowadays....Will you sell at $150 mil market cap something that has the potential to be worth billions in the next couple of years?

We haven't seen anything yet, so take a deep breath all. Think about long term potential and enjoy these prices while they last. These levels of market cap won't last forever.

Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Stan on April 04, 2015, 11:31:49 pm
Everybody wishes they could find The Next Big Thing.
Everybody thinks those who have done so in the past got lucky.
No.
It's about doing your homework.
The fundamentals could not be more clear.
Invest accordingly.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: kenCode on April 05, 2015, 09:18:08 am
... enjoy these prices while they last. These levels of market cap won't last forever.

Exactly, but then they'll whine about how they can't afford it anymore, it's overpriced, blah blah blah.
Quit watching the damn cap and price and just invest what you can every month.
Pay it like it's a bill that has to be paid.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: mdj on April 05, 2015, 09:23:28 am

Pay it like it's a bill that has to be paid.

Haha I love this one!
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Marky0001 on April 05, 2015, 09:28:23 am
Can someone give me a short sum up about the dilution and merger? I thought 5k was cheap but now I have the feeling that sub 2k might still be not the bottom.

I will appreciate any helpful input for better understanding regarding the price crash!
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Stan on April 05, 2015, 12:34:58 pm
Can someone give me a short sum up about the dilution and merger? I thought 5k was cheap but now I have the feeling that sub 2k might still be not the bottom.

I will appreciate any helpful input for better understanding regarding the price crash!

The Origin of BitShares, Part 8,  Experimenting and Pivoting (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=14019.msg182307#msg182307)

Does the merger have anything to do with the price? (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=14862.msg199256#msg199256)


Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: liondani on April 05, 2015, 01:13:09 pm

with only $37,000 24h volume we are 5% down... what does it mean? ( I ask the traders to interpret what means low volume with increased price volatility)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: btswildpig on April 05, 2015, 01:25:19 pm

with only $37,000 24h volume we are 5% down... what does it mean? ( I ask the traders to interpret what means low volume with increased price volatility)

it means the money of the supporters have dried up ....
I know plenty of people who wants to buy more , but they already bought at higher price .......
And it's not easy to develop new supporters with money over night .....
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: lil_jay890 on April 05, 2015, 01:37:48 pm

with only $37,000 24h volume we are 5% down... what does it mean? ( I ask the traders to interpret what means low volume with increased price volatility)

There is a fairly popular trading method that could be in play with bitshares right now...

We had a high volume low a week ago.  It was the massive dumping on btc38.  Often times this high volume low gets retested. If it gets retested with lower volume, that will often mean a bounce will insue after the stops under the high volume low are taken out. If we had continued high volume now I would be more worried that a medium term low is not in.  But since we are seeing diminishing volume i would bet we are higher than current market price by the end of next week.  Hard to say how much higher, but I would guess we will be around 18-20 million market cap.

This method has been made popular by Tom O'Brien of TFNN.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: btswildpig on April 05, 2015, 01:39:55 pm

with only $37,000 24h volume we are 5% down... what does it mean? ( I ask the traders to interpret what means low volume with increased price volatility)

There is a fairly popular trading method that could be in play with bitshares right now...

We had a high volume low a week ago.  It was the massive dumping on btc38.  Often times this high volume low gets retested. If it gets retested with lower volume, that will often mean a bounce will insue after the stops under the high volume low are taken out. If we had continued high volume now I would be more worried that a medium term low is not in.  But since we are seeing diminishing volume i would bet we are higher than current market price by the end of next week.  Hard to say how much higher, but I would guess we will be around 18-20 million market cap.

This method has been made popular by Tom O'Brien of TFNN.

has methods like this helped you earn money before ?  :P
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Empirical1.2 on April 05, 2015, 01:40:07 pm

with only $37,000 24h volume we are 5% down... what does it mean? ( I ask the traders to interpret what means low volume with increased price volatility)

It means there is very little buying support, even at these levels.

The key developers still seem very committed though and there are good developments all coming through soon. If I didn't have any BTS I would take a punt at these prices but as I've already tried to call the bottom incorrectly and lost as a result, I'm personally waiting for a significant reversal in the downtrend or evidence of actual BitAsset adoption before I buy more. (I value BTS almost exclusively on BitAsset progress and adoption.)

BitSapphire though have identified perhaps the key problem with BitAssets which is liquidity. So creative ways to address that are possibly needed.

Also if there was a use for BitAssets like buying Music, Gaming or my personal favourite Blockchain based Gambling, then we could see an uptick in BitAsset use and growth.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: mdj on April 05, 2015, 01:45:12 pm

with only $37,000 24h volume we are 5% down... what does it mean? ( I ask the traders to interpret what means low volume with increased price volatility)

Low volume means there is a lot of uncertainty. Most of us on the forums have been buying all the way down and have just kept losing and losing money. We don't want to lose more so want to see if we fall again before putting more in. It's difficult to catch a falling knife but the prices are very attractive right now.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: jsidhu on April 05, 2015, 06:37:12 pm
I woukd wager that the btc38 bears are running out of ammo.. soon there will only be buyers
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Shentist on April 05, 2015, 07:42:07 pm
for the records

on metaexchange.info (http://metaexchange.info) we have more buyers then seller, so it seems that the sales pressure comes from btc38 alone!
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: bluebit on April 05, 2015, 09:28:23 pm
I sold all of mine, I don't know where the bottom is, but it looks like there is nothing stopping it from falling further.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: donkeypong on April 05, 2015, 09:53:41 pm
has methods like this helped you earn money before ?  :P

Don't bet on it. Without much liquidity in the market, models/charts/methods won't be that helpful. Any big trader can move this market very quickly.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: bitsapphire on April 05, 2015, 10:00:05 pm

with only $37,000 24h volume we are 5% down... what does it mean? ( I ask the traders to interpret what means low volume with increased price volatility)

It means there is very little buying support, even at these levels.

The key developers still seem very committed though and there are good developments all coming through soon. If I didn't have any BTS I would take a punt at these prices but as I've already tried to call the bottom incorrectly and lost as a result, I'm personally waiting for a significant reversal in the downtrend or evidence of actual BitAsset adoption before I buy more. (I value BTS almost exclusively on BitAsset progress and adoption.)

BitSapphire though have identified perhaps the key problem with BitAssets which is liquidity. So creative ways to address that are possibly needed.

Also if there was a use for BitAssets like buying Music, Gaming or my personal favourite Blockchain based Gambling, then we could see an uptick in BitAsset use and growth.

The two easiest ways to add gateways to the picture is in our opinion:

Both need easy and friction-less KYC to be legally compliant. I think adding easy KYC compliance should be the number one thing in mind of every delegate and wallet creator out there atm.

The easiest to reach potential gateways are most likely already existing equity crowdfunding websites in Europe and already existing Bitcoin ATM networks. The ATM networks especially could easily integrate by providing ATM Gateway fiat IOUs rather than do the whole buying and selling of bitUSD at the ATM. This would also be a lot more secure.

Our two cents.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: pendragon3 on April 05, 2015, 11:01:50 pm

with only $37,000 24h volume we are 5% down... what does it mean? ( I ask the traders to interpret what means low volume with increased price volatility)

It means there is very little buying support, even at these levels.

The key developers still seem very committed though and there are good developments all coming through soon. If I didn't have any BTS I would take a punt at these prices but as I've already tried to call the bottom incorrectly and lost as a result, I'm personally waiting for a significant reversal in the downtrend or evidence of actual BitAsset adoption before I buy more. (I value BTS almost exclusively on BitAsset progress and adoption.)

BitSapphire though have identified perhaps the key problem with BitAssets which is liquidity. So creative ways to address that are possibly needed.

Also if there was a use for BitAssets like buying Music, Gaming or my personal favourite Blockchain based Gambling, then we could see an uptick in BitAsset use and growth.

The two easiest ways to add gateways to the picture is in our opinion:
  • Add legal stock and bond gateways
  • Add legal fiat IOU gateways

Both need easy and friction-less KYC to be legally compliant. I think adding easy KYC compliance should be the number one thing in mind of every delegate and wallet creator out there atm.

The easiest to reach potential gateways are most likely already existing equity crowdfunding websites in Europe and already existing Bitcoin ATM networks. The ATM networks especially could easily integrate by providing ATM Gateway fiat IOUs rather than do the whole buying and selling of bitUSD at the ATM. This would also be a lot more secure.

Our two cents.

 +5% +5%
Agree. As I said a few months back, developing easy fiat on- and off-ramps is tremendously important for BitShares, second only to providing the typical user with a great wallet experience.

I hope our best talent is focusing on fiat ramps now because of the significant lead time involved. Developing good, legally-compliant ramps won't be easy. It's a bit unfortunate that BitShares has not (yet) been the beneficiary of a price bubble, as Bitcoin was. So, getting a robust system of ramps will take a lot of resourcefulness, persistence, and ingenuity, but IMO it's a make-or-break and of paramount importance.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: vlight on April 10, 2015, 10:12:30 am
rekt again

 :'( :D :'(

overtaken by some crappy coin distributed through facebook, that's so sad  :(
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: MrJeans on April 10, 2015, 10:35:46 am
rekt again

 :'( :D :'(

overtaken by some crappy coin distributed through facebook, that's so sad  :(
Ya, I dont understand this. What does Dash have that we dont?

Whereas I dont have the time to list what we have that Dash does not.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: vlight on April 10, 2015, 10:42:10 am
Ya, I dont understand this. What does Dash have that we dont?

Whereas I dont have the time to list what we have that Dash does not.

Dash too:

(http://i.imgur.com/Osih1EX.jpg)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: liondani on April 10, 2015, 10:48:03 am
Ya, I dont understand this. What does Dash have that we dont?

what has bitcoin,ripple,litecoin,stellar,dash and very soon doge,  that we don't?
...when we find the answer maybe it is to late (if not already) :(


edit:

PS but don't complain not reaching the moon.... we have MOONSTONES indeed  ;)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: MrJeans on April 10, 2015, 01:47:07 pm
Ya, I dont understand this. What does Dash have that we dont?

what has bitcoin,ripple,litecoin,stellar,dash and very soon doge,  that we don't?
...when we find the answer maybe it is to late (if not already) :(


edit:

PS but don't complain not reaching the moon.... we have MOONSTONES indeed  ;)
Not too worried about not reaching the moon. Just want to stop loosing my savings.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: nomoreheroes7 on April 10, 2015, 02:03:27 pm
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/3736991/going-down-with-this-ship-o.gif)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: liondani on April 10, 2015, 02:26:46 pm
Ya, I dont understand this. What does Dash have that we dont?

what has bitcoin,ripple,litecoin,stellar,dash and very soon doge,  that we don't?
...when we find the answer maybe it is to late (if not already) :(


edit:

PS but don't complain not reaching the moon.... we have MOONSTONES indeed  ;)
Not too worried about not reaching the moon. Just want to stop loosing my savings.

yep that is what I want too...
I am really disappointed ... what is happening is not normal...
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: liondani on April 10, 2015, 02:27:58 pm
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/3736991/going-down-with-this-ship-o.gif)

I doubt the captain is in the same boat
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: nomoreheroes7 on April 10, 2015, 02:32:51 pm
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/3736991/going-down-with-this-ship-o.gif)

I doubt the captain is in the same boat

It'd be nice to hear from the captain...silence is only making things worse IMO.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: monsterer on April 10, 2015, 02:46:53 pm
Not too worried about not reaching the moon. Just want to stop loosing my savings.

It's a foolish idea to put savings into a volatile currency. Use bitUSD instead if you want stability.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: kenCode on April 10, 2015, 02:48:11 pm
We're not alone guys.
Paypal now accepts Bitcoin and the prices are still crashing.
 
Bitcoin is being dry f*kd:
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-price-not-advancing-paypal-announcement/
 
This is overall crypto-space fear. Something really big is about to happen I think.
A dollar collapse? An EU-wide crypto-ban? A false flag?
Here's the thing man, it could be a tipping point this year for all cryptos. It's no longer about the coin, it's the protocol wars now.
POW. POS. DPOS..?
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: kenCode on April 10, 2015, 02:49:48 pm
I'm a Moonstoner.
 
first!
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: liondani on April 10, 2015, 02:52:18 pm
Not too worried about not reaching the moon. Just want to stop loosing my savings.

It's a foolish idea to put savings into a volatile currency. Use bitUSD instead if you want stability.

lol

How the hell you could have bitUSD in existence if nobody would short USD?
Do you have smart advises for SHORTERS too?
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: nomoreheroes7 on April 10, 2015, 02:57:03 pm
Not too worried about not reaching the moon. Just want to stop loosing my savings.

It's a foolish idea to put savings into a volatile currency. Use bitUSD instead if you want stability.

If BTS were to skyrocket like it (may) be destined to then it would be foolish not to have your savings in BTS. But I guess it depends on how much you're putting in/your age...I'm still pretty young and can afford to lose the "savings" I invested in BTS...I've got more savings in a 401k anyway.

BitUSD doesn't really have any possibility of making you a millionaire...

We're not alone guys.
Paypal now accepts Bitcoin and the prices are still crashing.

Hmm, I didn't even hear about that. Either it's not a very good acceptance of bitcoin by PayPal or people really don't care anymore...hence panic. Doesn't really look like adoption news can move markets anymore. Things are getting interesting...
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on April 10, 2015, 03:19:01 pm
I think what you are seeing is the result of the Moonstone crowdfund in part.. there is a big sell pressure to convert to BTC.. that would impact the price pretty quick I think.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: nomoreheroes7 on April 10, 2015, 03:28:45 pm
I think what you are seeing is the result of the Moonstone crowdfund in part.. there is a big sell pressure to convert to BTC.. that would impact the price pretty quick I think.

I'd believe that if moonstone was receiving massive amounts of donations...but so far only $7,000.

I'd say the rest of the price drop is due to other coins dropping, manipulation by people knowing/thinking a price drop is imminent due to moonstone, and just general panic over the lack of solid BTS progress/communication lately...
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: liondani on April 10, 2015, 03:29:47 pm
I think what you are seeing is the result of the Moonstone crowdfund in part.. there is a big sell pressure to convert to BTC.. that would impact the price pretty quick I think.

I don't buy it. They raised until now about $8000... If they raise $130000 the next couple of days I will agree with you...
But in case you are right I think the best approach from us would be to vote them in* (their 5 delegates) so the fund-raise would not be necessary ...
And if that is the case, that BTS loose so much equity on every fund-raise, why the hell we should keep BTS on our portfolio?
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on April 10, 2015, 04:19:03 pm
I think what you are seeing is the result of the Moonstone crowdfund in part.. there is a big sell pressure to convert to BTC.. that would impact the price pretty quick I think.

I don't buy it. They raised until now about $8000... If they raise $130000 the next couple of days I will agree with you...
But in case you are right I think the best approach from us would be to vote them in* (their 5 delegates) so the fund-raise would not be necessary ...
And if that is the case, that BTS loose so much equity on every fund-raise, why the hell we should keep BTS on our portfolio?

It wouldn't have had an impact if they accepted BTS from the start.. but they accepted BTC.. which put selling pressure on everyone who holds any BTS/Assets to convert to BTC then.

Someone says the chinese community are unloading to put money into some chinese company stock market stuff also.

Either way I don't care.. just bought more BTS today and love'en the price. :)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: kenCode on April 10, 2015, 05:17:04 pm
Either way I don't care.. just bought more BTS today and love'en the price. :)

ditto :) +5%
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Shentist on April 10, 2015, 05:26:54 pm
to think the moonstone fundraiser is the cause --- please take a look on the charts and the downtrend is 5-6 month long.

so, we are loosing more then other 2.0 crypto projects, but we have also the biggest chinese community. In the last weeks the indices in china doubled on the stock exchanges, so
why should they stay in crypto? they can come back later.

we are pressured the most, because our chinese community is the biggest and the BTS whales are sitting in china, but we will also get pushed the most, if the bearmarket in crypto is over.

maybe you all should welcome this time and tell all your friends to buy some BTS.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: kenCode on April 10, 2015, 06:15:26 pm
In the last weeks the indices in china doubled on the stock exchanges, so why should they stay in crypto? they can come back later.
+5%
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: btswildpig on April 10, 2015, 07:18:08 pm
rekt again

 :'( :D :'(

overtaken by some crappy coin distributed through facebook, that's so sad  :(
Ya, I dont understand this. What does Dash have that we dont?

Whereas I dont have the time to list what we have that Dash does not.

Dash= Darkcoin .
Bitfinex exchange has big market depth for BTC/LTC . good for trader , makes them big exchange . so Dash got the juice too .
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: toast on April 10, 2015, 09:55:26 pm
The killer feature bitshares is missing is credibility and trustworthiness. Changing the supply schedule is a cardinal sin and absolutely nothing has been done to legitimize it
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: fuzzy on April 10, 2015, 10:12:15 pm
The killer feature bitshares is missing is credibility and trustworthiness. Changing the supply schedule is a cardinal sin and absolutely nothing has been done to legitimize it

Is there a solution oriented approach coming?
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Volker on April 10, 2015, 10:27:15 pm
The killer feature bitshares is missing is credibility and trustworthiness. Changing the supply schedule is a cardinal sin and absolutely nothing has been done to legitimize it

Monero's community had a proposal to change its supply schedule in order to reduce its 50%+ annual inflation. It was discussed for several months and ultimately rejected unanimously.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: MrJeans on April 10, 2015, 10:29:39 pm
Not too worried about not reaching the moon. Just want to stop loosing my savings.

It's a foolish idea to put savings into a volatile currency. Use bitUSD instead if you want stability.
Thank you for your amazing advice! Where were you about a year ago when I needed you to assist me in my investment decisions.

My savings is not a lot as I am just starting out. Im not regretting the decision, although I believe I am allowed to be unhappy if the price is dropping the way it is.

But thanks for your words of wisdom anyway  ;)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Tuck Fheman on April 11, 2015, 12:29:14 pm
The killer feature bitshares is missing is credibility and trustworthiness. Changing the supply schedule is a cardinal sin and absolutely nothing has been done to legitimize it

(https://33.media.tumblr.com/c3a9a748b4390e84dfd0360427670219/tumblr_nmn6akDCS61rtef2wo1_250.gif)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: chewchew on April 11, 2015, 01:53:34 pm
The killer feature bitshares is missing is credibility and trustworthiness. Changing the supply schedule is a cardinal sin and absolutely nothing has been done to legitimize it

Also it seems like some of the elected delegates don't really have their heart in bitshares. If one of the top delegates can't get behind their own employer, how can anyone else see it as legitimate?
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: mf-tzo on April 11, 2015, 01:59:05 pm
I think unfortunately Bitshares is going to become really centralized...

1) I think that at these levels most of the original investors who kept their BTS at all costs are very discouraged. Of course most of them appear to have already gone and dump BTS at any price..Discouraging people and dumping their investments has the consequence few whales to buy them and results in centralization of shares...

2) We have heard about potential huge deals behind the scenes but nothing yet..So what is their purpose? To discourage all the current investors so new investors can get in at ridiculously low prices? Guess what these new investors will do when their investment suddenly doubles or more... New crash all over again..

3) It looks to me that BTS had just 1 pump and then got dumped...We appear to be no different from any altcoin out there..Confidence gets destroyed day by day...

Unless you guys stop dumping your holdings NOW then BTS will become worthless very very soon and no matter what happens in the future, no matter the development, the progress and all the nice things that BTS could become no one is going to care...

I think we need some Huge announcements from the Devs at this point, some serious media coverage before it is really too late! Only the Devs can stop this downfall and I think its about time they act.

I apologize for the tone of this post. I know many people and especially the Devs are doing whatever they can. I believe that this community has many honest people that want BTS to succeed but we are getting hammered day by day..So please Devs just do something about this..
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: nomoreheroes7 on April 11, 2015, 02:46:34 pm
2) We have heard about potential huge deals behind the scenes but nothing yet..So what is their purpose? To discourage all the current investors so new investors can get in at ridiculously low prices? Guess what these new investors will do when their investment suddenly doubles or more... New crash all over again..

...

I think we need some Huge announcements from the Devs at this point, some serious media coverage before it is really too late! Only the Devs can stop this downfall and I think its about time they act.

That's part of the problem. Before the devs were all "guys don't worry we have huge deals brewing behind the scenes! Gonna be EPIC!" People bought into that and were just waiting for the devs to deliver. When they don't deliver, panic ensues. So if there really are these "huge deals" brewing, we need more concrete details that prove things are actually happening. Devs remaining largely silent and showing slow progress at GitHub just makes it look like they can't really deliver on their promises.

The killer feature bitshares is missing is credibility and trustworthiness. Changing the supply schedule is a cardinal sin and absolutely nothing has been done to legitimize it

I hate seeing posts like this. First of all, it's impossible to directly correlate the drop in price with the change in supply. Second, the self-funding dilution could one day prove to be BTS' greatest weapon. We just don't know yet because all we're getting is speculative dumping. Third, Toast is a CORE DEV. If you feel so strongly about it why can't you talk this over with the other core devs? You have the power to shape the future of bitshares. Instead of bitching to us about how BTS is no longer trustworthy and has not legitimized its change in share supply, why can't you take this up with the other devs and come up with a CONCRETE answer to the problem together?

I sense a huge disconnect between the core devs and I'm just not feeling it.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: btswildpig on April 11, 2015, 03:01:55 pm
if you buy BTS , make sure you withdraw to your wallet , that's how you actually own BTS .
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: kenCode on April 11, 2015, 03:15:13 pm
Devs ..... showing slow progress at GitHub just makes it look like they can't really deliver on their promises.
...
I sense a huge disconnect between the core devs and I'm just not feeling it.

I started and ran a software company for over 16 years. As evil as this sounds, I used to actually enjoy FIRING the proven non-performers.. There were always hundreds of other coders beating my office door down for a job. Then the new coder would come in and bust out twice as much.
Github makes it very easy to prove who the top performers are.
 
A lot of us here are working for FREE.
Look, they either get their sh*t together, or pack their sh*t. VOTE.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: jsidhu on April 11, 2015, 03:30:38 pm
2) We have heard about potential huge deals behind the scenes but nothing yet..So what is their purpose? To discourage all the current investors so new investors can get in at ridiculously low prices? Guess what these new investors will do when their investment suddenly doubles or more... New crash all over again..

...

I think we need some Huge announcements from the Devs at this point, some serious media coverage before it is really too late! Only the Devs can stop this downfall and I think its about time they act.

That's part of the problem. Before the devs were all "guys don't worry we have huge deals brewing behind the scenes! Gonna be EPIC!" People bought into that and were just waiting for the devs to deliver. When they don't deliver, panic ensues. So if there really are these "huge deals" brewing, we need more concrete details that prove things are actually happening. Devs remaining largely silent and showing slow progress at GitHub just makes it look like they can't really deliver on their promises.

The killer feature bitshares is missing is credibility and trustworthiness. Changing the supply schedule is a cardinal sin and absolutely nothing has been done to legitimize it

I hate seeing posts like this. First of all, it's impossible to directly correlate the drop in price with the change in supply. Second, the self-funding dilution could one day prove to be BTS' greatest weapon. We just don't know yet because all we're getting is speculative dumping. Third, Toast is a CORE DEV. If you feel so strongly about it why can't you talk this over with the other core devs? You have the power to shape the future of bitshares. Instead of bitching to us about how BTS is no longer trustworthy and has not legitimized its change in share supply, why can't you take this up with the other devs and come up with a CONCRETE answer to the problem together?

I sense a huge disconnect between the core devs and I'm just not feeling it.
I think he made it clear he doesnt believe in same things as other core members i doubt hes working on bts.. Probably helped cause the downtrend by selling his millions of bts and every bts he earns via delegate
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: robrigo on April 11, 2015, 03:33:48 pm
The entire crypto space is fledgling. That includes Bitcoin. I suggest that those worried about  immediate results take a longer term view. A lot of dev work isn't being done in public repos, and the reason why the team isn't tempting the community with "big things" is precisely because they don't want to hype anything until it is finished.

These guys are trying to learn from the past by keeping the hype to a minimum until there is substance to back it. I'd rather have that than over promising and under delivering any day.

We won't see sustained growth until there is a sustainable market for bitshares technology. We likely won't see that until there is a stable release.

Cryptocurrency prices are all speculation. Invest in people. That's my $0.02 bitusd.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: cube on April 11, 2015, 03:43:26 pm
2) We have heard about potential huge deals behind the scenes but nothing yet..So what is their purpose? To discourage all the current investors so new investors can get in at ridiculously low prices? Guess what these new investors will do when their investment suddenly doubles or more... New crash all over again..

...

I think we need some Huge announcements from the Devs at this point, some serious media coverage before it is really too late! Only the Devs can stop this downfall and I think its about time they act.

That's part of the problem. Before the devs were all "guys don't worry we have huge deals brewing behind the scenes! Gonna be EPIC!" People bought into that and were just waiting for the devs to deliver. When they don't deliver, panic ensues. So if there really are these "huge deals" brewing, we need more concrete details that prove things are actually happening. Devs remaining largely silent and showing slow progress at GitHub just makes it look like they can't really deliver on their promises.

The killer feature bitshares is missing is credibility and trustworthiness. Changing the supply schedule is a cardinal sin and absolutely nothing has been done to legitimize it

I hate seeing posts like this. First of all, it's impossible to directly correlate the drop in price with the change in supply. Second, the self-funding dilution could one day prove to be BTS' greatest weapon. We just don't know yet because all we're getting is speculative dumping. Third, Toast is a CORE DEV. If you feel so strongly about it why can't you talk this over with the other core devs? You have the power to shape the future of bitshares. Instead of bitching to us about how BTS is no longer trustworthy and has not legitimized its change in share supply, why can't you take this up with the other devs and come up with a CONCRETE answer to the problem together?

I sense a huge disconnect between the core devs and I'm just not feeling it.
I think he made it clear he doesnt believe in same things as other core members i doubt hes working on bts.. Probably helped cause the downtrend by selling his millions of bts and every bts he earns via delegate

Are you saying toast has left bts?
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: chewchew on April 11, 2015, 04:18:36 pm
2) We have heard about potential huge deals behind the scenes but nothing yet..So what is their purpose? To discourage all the current investors so new investors can get in at ridiculously low prices? Guess what these new investors will do when their investment suddenly doubles or more... New crash all over again..

...

I think we need some Huge announcements from the Devs at this point, some serious media coverage before it is really too late! Only the Devs can stop this downfall and I think its about time they act.

That's part of the problem. Before the devs were all "guys don't worry we have huge deals brewing behind the scenes! Gonna be EPIC!" People bought into that and were just waiting for the devs to deliver. When they don't deliver, panic ensues. So if there really are these "huge deals" brewing, we need more concrete details that prove things are actually happening. Devs remaining largely silent and showing slow progress at GitHub just makes it look like they can't really deliver on their promises.

The killer feature bitshares is missing is credibility and trustworthiness. Changing the supply schedule is a cardinal sin and absolutely nothing has been done to legitimize it

I hate seeing posts like this. First of all, it's impossible to directly correlate the drop in price with the change in supply. Second, the self-funding dilution could one day prove to be BTS' greatest weapon. We just don't know yet because all we're getting is speculative dumping. Third, Toast is a CORE DEV. If you feel so strongly about it why can't you talk this over with the other core devs? You have the power to shape the future of bitshares. Instead of bitching to us about how BTS is no longer trustworthy and has not legitimized its change in share supply, why can't you take this up with the other devs and come up with a CONCRETE answer to the problem together?

I sense a huge disconnect between the core devs and I'm just not feeling it.

Yes I agree. Toast has been very unprofessional. It seems so inappropriate. If you are looking for a PR problem, I think bm is not the problem.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Shentist on April 11, 2015, 04:36:46 pm
old trading wisdom

"if good news are not moving the price higher or bad news lower, you are probably on the end of a trend"

in our case i think in a couple of month the bearmarket in crypto is over. So you have to think which crypto will profit the most. I am on BitShares, so i will buy more.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: graffenwalder on April 11, 2015, 04:51:21 pm
Quote
I think he made it clear he doesnt believe in same things as other core members i doubt hes working on bts.. Probably helped cause the downtrend by selling his millions of bts and every bts he earns via delegate

Haha, now pointing the finger at Toast? He made it clear he left BTS for Note. And if his delegate wasn't voted out, all pay would go to Valvaz.

Apparently the BTS holders thought this was a good idea, to keep the delegate in. Luckily Fuzzy and the awesome  +5% gang, have decided that in times of crisis creating more 100% delegates is the solution. With the help of BM we are made to believe that the extra created BTS, doesn't have a influence on the price. This is why the price is falling, realization has set in that there will never be a fiat crisis, since QE is apparently the solution.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: toast on April 11, 2015, 05:35:02 pm
Quote
I think he made it clear he doesnt believe in same things as other core members i doubt hes working on bts.. Probably helped cause the downtrend by selling his millions of bts and every bts he earns via delegate

Haha, now pointing the finger at Toast? He made it clear he left BTS for Note. And if his delegate wasn't voted out, all pay would go to Valvaz.

Apparently the BTS holders thought this was a good idea, to keep the delegate in. Luckily Fuzzy and the awesome  +5% gang, have decided that in times of crisis creating more 100% delegates is the solution. With the help of BM we are made to believe that the extra created BTS, doesn't have a influence on the price. This is why the price is falling, realization has set in that there will never be a fiat crisis, since QE is apparently the solution.

Thanks, I hate having to repeat this stuff. Maybe it's easier to just turn off the delegates to make it clear to people who don't hang around the forum?
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: kenCode on April 11, 2015, 05:40:40 pm
old trading wisdom
"if good news are not moving the price higher or bad news lower, you are probably on the end of a trend"
in our case i think in a couple of month the bearmarket in crypto is over. So you have to think which crypto will profit the most. I am on BitShares, so i will buy more.

exactly. the announcement that Paypal now accepts Bitcoin should have rocketed the price up or at least slowed the bear in the crypto space, but all cryptos are still staggering.
 
if however a coder is a slacker, you fire him on a friday. (just ask Samir and Michael)
 
for the record, i bought more BTS today and will buy more tomorrow too.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: svk on April 11, 2015, 05:41:43 pm
Quote
I think he made it clear he doesnt believe in same things as other core members i doubt hes working on bts.. Probably helped cause the downtrend by selling his millions of bts and every bts he earns via delegate

Haha, now pointing the finger at Toast? He made it clear he left BTS for Note. And if his delegate wasn't voted out, all pay would go to Valvaz.

Apparently the BTS holders thought this was a good idea, to keep the delegate in. Luckily Fuzzy and the awesome  +5% gang, have decided that in times of crisis creating more 100% delegates is the solution. With the help of BM we are made to believe that the extra created BTS, doesn't have a influence on the price. This is why the price is falling, realization has set in that there will never be a fiat crisis, since QE is apparently the solution.

Thanks, I hate having to repeat this stuff. Maybe it's easier to just turn off the delegates to make it clear to people who don't hang around the forum?
I for one completely missed that announcement and I spend way too much time on this forum, I was under the impression you were temporarily helping out with Music, and I only saw a discussion about your second delegate, not the primary one.

So you're no longer working on BTS?
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: jsidhu on April 11, 2015, 05:44:02 pm
Quote
I think he made it clear he doesnt believe in same things as other core members i doubt hes working on bts.. Probably helped cause the downtrend by selling his millions of bts and every bts he earns via delegate

Haha, now pointing the finger at Toast? He made it clear he left BTS for Note. And if his delegate wasn't voted out, all pay would go to Valvaz.

Apparently the BTS holders thought this was a good idea, to keep the delegate in. Luckily Fuzzy and the awesome  +5% gang, have decided that in times of crisis creating more 100% delegates is the solution. With the help of BM we are made to believe that the extra created BTS, doesn't have a influence on the price. This is why the price is falling, realization has set in that there will never be a fiat crisis, since QE is apparently the solution.

Thanks, I hate having to repeat this stuff. Maybe it's easier to just turn off the delegates to make it clear to people who don't hang around the forum?
Maybe you can talk a bit more indepth on the cardinal sins that bitshares committed instead of coming off as if tou were right and noone listened to you.. I wouldnt be here if it werent for the delegate system and inflation as other devs.. You will stsrt to see fruit of the labor soon as these tools will be integrated.. Would you have said that if price was rising no.. So you assume its one of the reasons it fell howver i think it makes for a buying opp because all of the work hasnt been priced in.. Nothing in crypto to compare it to..

I check the forum every single day and knew only faintly about it howver its so obvious by the tone of your posts.. Usually happens when dev leaves or has little or no stake (sold off)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: btswildpig on April 11, 2015, 05:44:51 pm
old trading wisdom
"if good news are not moving the price higher or bad news lower, you are probably on the end of a trend"
in our case i think in a couple of month the bearmarket in crypto is over. So you have to think which crypto will profit the most. I am on BitShares, so i will buy more.

exactly. the announcement that Paypal now accepts Bitcoin should have rocketed the price up or at least slowed the bear in the crypto space, but all cryptos are still staggering.
 
if however a coder is a slacker, you fire him on a friday. (just ask Samir and Michael)
 
for the record, i bought more BTS today and will buy more tomorrow too.

crypto currency in general can't sustain its price by the value they provide , but totally hinged by what people think they're provide in the long long future ...
so once those expectations are gone , it's hard to sustain the price at the present day .

Unless a system can generate actual income instead of basing its future purely on the expectation of early investors .

this goes to all crypto currency , including BitShares .
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: mint chocolate chip on April 11, 2015, 05:47:05 pm
Quote
I think he made it clear he doesnt believe in same things as other core members i doubt hes working on bts.. Probably helped cause the downtrend by selling his millions of bts and every bts he earns via delegate

Haha, now pointing the finger at Toast? He made it clear he left BTS for Note. And if his delegate wasn't voted out, all pay would go to Valvaz.

Apparently the BTS holders thought this was a good idea, to keep the delegate in. Luckily Fuzzy and the awesome  +5% gang, have decided that in times of crisis creating more 100% delegates is the solution. With the help of BM we are made to believe that the extra created BTS, doesn't have a influence on the price. This is why the price is falling, realization has set in that there will never be a fiat crisis, since QE is apparently the solution.

Thanks, I hate having to repeat this stuff. Maybe it's easier to just turn off the delegates to make it clear to people who don't hang around the forum?
Maybe you can talk a bit more indepth on the cardinal sins that bitshares committed instead of coming off as if tou were right and noone listened to you.. I wouldnt be here if it werent for the delegate system and inflation as other devs.. You will stsrt to see fruit of the labor soon as these tools will be integrated.. Would you have said that if price was rising no.. So you assume its one of the reasons it fell howver i think it makes for a buying opp because all of the work hasnt been priced in.. Nothing in crypto to compare it to..

I check the forum every single day and knew only faintly about it howver its so obvious by the tone of your posts.. Usually happens when dev leaves or has little or no stake (sold off)

Almost two months... this page has the discussion about it https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,14379.msg187335.html#msg187335
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: jsidhu on April 11, 2015, 05:52:04 pm
Meh comes off as a i told you so approach. Sometimes you have to pay for skill yes but id rather have skill dedicated to the cause and get behind the whole idea.. Skill as a consultant wont work for crypto.. Until we can compete financially. There is skill out there willing to code for fun (and herr you get paid a bit while your at it) if you dont believe me see bitcoin.

That said sometimes core beliefs clash and the person is not willing to adapt or able to convince.. So its tough but nothing wrong with it.. For the sake of the project good for that persons to move on.. But just dont come back to tell ppl they are wrong for believing in something without proper justification... Just becsuse you think something doesnt make it the global truth.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: emailtooaj on April 11, 2015, 05:56:49 pm
I don't want to belittle some of the complaints posted so far but in the scheme of things (the entire Crypto-World combined) is in a steady downtrend. If you look at what Coinmarketcap had reported for a combined total Market Cap on Nov.14 2014 (http://web.archive.org/web/20141114040807/http://coinmarketcap.com/ ) and compair it to today's Market cap, then there's been a total value loss of 29.8%. The numbers don't lie!
So the arguments that Bitshares decrease is directly caused because of this, that or the other is not acurate. The Cytpo comunnity as a whole is feeling the pinch.
Outside of this... the bigger purse holders are in China. So what Shentist had stated has the most common sense factor I've heard so far (minus the Moonstone comment)...
to think the moonstone fundraiser is the cause --- please take a look on the charts and the downtrend is 5-6 month long.

so, we are loosing more then other 2.0 crypto projects, but we have also the biggest chinese community. In the last weeks the indices in china doubled on the stock exchanges, so
why should they stay in crypto? they can come back later.

we are pressured the most, because our chinese community is the biggest and the BTS whales are sitting in china, but we will also get pushed the most, if the bearmarket in crypto is over.

maybe you all should welcome this time and tell all your friends to buy some BTS.

That being said, we aren't doing ourselves any favors by pointing fingers at each other for "plausible" causes regarding the price drop and creating unnecessary FUD, unless there's a hidden agenda to do so!
 :P

Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: rnglab on April 11, 2015, 08:18:24 pm
DAC's C may stand for Company (profit) but Distributed and Autonomous means freedom.
Trying to imagine bitcoin's first stages being mainly focused on price and makes no sense to me
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: rnglab on April 11, 2015, 08:27:53 pm
I'd sugest a rollback to self moderated devs participation on the forum, to balance the speculation content with more constructive feedback
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Tuck Fheman on April 11, 2015, 11:20:18 pm
realization has set in that there will never be a fiat crisis, since QE is apparently the solution.

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/jck.gif)
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: yiminh on April 13, 2015, 12:34:32 am
The killer feature bitshares is missing is credibility and trustworthiness. Changing the supply schedule is a cardinal sin and absolutely nothing has been done to legitimize it

The killer feature is the ability to hardfork and must upgrade at will, for a big stake holder that's like a gun at his head and he'll agree to whatever the dev demands:( that totally distroys bitshare value as a cryptocurrence!
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: yiminh on April 13, 2015, 01:51:01 am
From my observation BM has a little above average intelligence that was far overmatched by his big ego, a fake Libertarian that jump at every chance of grabing power, he single handedly destroied Bitshare, that's sad.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: liondani on April 13, 2015, 01:01:05 pm
Where can we see on github how "notes" development is in progress?

PS I bet a core dev will be totally "unknown " to us...

Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 997D
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: bitmeat on April 13, 2015, 03:08:44 pm
Where can we see on github how "notes" development is in progress?

PS I bet a core dev will be totally "unknown " to us...

Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 997D

Isn't toast a core notes dev?
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: fuzzy on April 13, 2015, 03:18:03 pm
I think unfortunately Bitshares is going to become really centralized...

1) I think that at these levels most of the original investors who kept their BTS at all costs are very discouraged. Of course most of them appear to have already gone and dump BTS at any price..Discouraging people and dumping their investments has the consequence few whales to buy them and results in centralization of shares...

2) We have heard about potential huge deals behind the scenes but nothing yet..So what is their purpose? To discourage all the current investors so new investors can get in at ridiculously low prices? Guess what these new investors will do when their investment suddenly doubles or more... New crash all over again..

3) It looks to me that BTS had just 1 pump and then got dumped...We appear to be no different from any altcoin out there..Confidence gets destroyed day by day...

Unless you guys stop dumping your holdings NOW then BTS will become worthless very very soon and no matter what happens in the future, no matter the development, the progress and all the nice things that BTS could become no one is going to care...

I think we need some Huge announcements from the Devs at this point, some serious media coverage before it is really too late! Only the Devs can stop this downfall and I think its about time they act.

I apologize for the tone of this post. I know many people and especially the Devs are doing whatever they can. I believe that this community has many honest people that want BTS to succeed but we are getting hammered day by day..So please Devs just do something about this..

Is Noone looking at moonstone?  Have you seen how applesque their presentation is from the very start? I see many potentially huge things on the horizon stemming from that alone.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: kenCode on April 13, 2015, 04:05:07 pm
I think we need some Huge announcements from the Devs at this point, some serious media coverage before it is really too late! Only the Devs can stop this downfall and I think its about time they act.

They act?
 
The video footage of them coding like maniacs is about to be released thanx to the BitShares Peer to Peer Tour that is just now coming to an end. I just heard the mumble from their roadtrip, their visit with the Devs along the way, their interview on Let's Talk Bitcoin in Nashville.......
They're workin Mad Hours.
Maybe you can help us out a bit (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,15715.0.html) ??

Shots from their journey: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,14865.0.html
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: btswildpig on April 13, 2015, 04:27:12 pm
I think we need some Huge announcements from the Devs at this point, some serious media coverage before it is really too late! Only the Devs can stop this downfall and I think its about time they act.

They act?
 
The video footage of them coding like maniacs is about to be released thanx to the BitShares Peer to Peer Tour that is just now coming to an end. I just heard the mumble from their roadtrip, their visit with the Devs along the way, their interview on Let's Talk Bitcoin in Nashville.......
They're workin Mad Hours.
Maybe you can help us out a bit (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,15715.0.html) ??

Shots from their journey: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,14865.0.html

Bad news can drive the price down .
But good news can't drive the price up , unlike what people commonly believe in .

Good news only matters when the price is going up . If a good news happened at exactly the moment the pumper want to pump the price , then the good news often takes credit for the rise . But it's not .

That's why in Bitcoin market , huge good news sometimes doesn't work , while sometimes small good news would drive the price up .

Driving the price up needs cash , good news can't provide actual cash itself .
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: oldman on April 14, 2015, 12:06:53 am
Something something greedy fearful something something.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: cube on April 14, 2015, 06:57:00 am
Quote
I think he made it clear he doesnt believe in same things as other core members i doubt hes working on bts.. Probably helped cause the downtrend by selling his millions of bts and every bts he earns via delegate

Haha, now pointing the finger at Toast? He made it clear he left BTS for Note. And if his delegate wasn't voted out, all pay would go to Valvaz.

Apparently the BTS holders thought this was a good idea, to keep the delegate in. Luckily Fuzzy and the awesome  +5% gang, have decided that in times of crisis creating more 100% delegates is the solution. With the help of BM we are made to believe that the extra created BTS, doesn't have a influence on the price. This is why the price is falling, realization has set in that there will never be a fiat crisis, since QE is apparently the solution.

Thanks, I hate having to repeat this stuff. Maybe it's easier to just turn off the delegates to make it clear to people who don't hang around the forum?
Maybe you can talk a bit more indepth on the cardinal sins that bitshares committed instead of coming off as if tou were right and noone listened to you.. I wouldnt be here if it werent for the delegate system and inflation as other devs.. You will stsrt to see fruit of the labor soon as these tools will be integrated.. Would you have said that if price was rising no.. So you assume its one of the reasons it fell howver i think it makes for a buying opp because all of the work hasnt been priced in.. Nothing in crypto to compare it to..

I check the forum every single day and knew only faintly about it howver its so obvious by the tone of your posts.. Usually happens when dev leaves or has little or no stake (sold off)

Almost two months... this page has the discussion about it https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,14379.msg187335.html#msg187335

Thanks for pointing out the thread which indicates toast has left for Notes for good.  Strange that there is no formal announcement of it and it was being mentioned as a by-the-way reply-post in a 'random discussion' thread.  I suppose the the core team finds no value in giving a formal announcement to the community.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: jsidhu on April 14, 2015, 02:47:19 pm
Quote
I think he made it clear he doesnt believe in same things as other core members i doubt hes working on bts.. Probably helped cause the downtrend by selling his millions of bts and every bts he earns via delegate

Haha, now pointing the finger at Toast? He made it clear he left BTS for Note. And if his delegate wasn't voted out, all pay would go to Valvaz.

Apparently the BTS holders thought this was a good idea, to keep the delegate in. Luckily Fuzzy and the awesome  +5% gang, have decided that in times of crisis creating more 100% delegates is the solution. With the help of BM we are made to believe that the extra created BTS, doesn't have a influence on the price. This is why the price is falling, realization has set in that there will never be a fiat crisis, since QE is apparently the solution.

Thanks, I hate having to repeat this stuff. Maybe it's easier to just turn off the delegates to make it clear to people who don't hang around the forum?
Maybe you can talk a bit more indepth on the cardinal sins that bitshares committed instead of coming off as if tou were right and noone listened to you.. I wouldnt be here if it werent for the delegate system and inflation as other devs.. You will stsrt to see fruit of the labor soon as these tools will be integrated.. Would you have said that if price was rising no.. So you assume its one of the reasons it fell howver i think it makes for a buying opp because all of the work hasnt been priced in.. Nothing in crypto to compare it to..

I check the forum every single day and knew only faintly about it howver its so obvious by the tone of your posts.. Usually happens when dev leaves or has little or no stake (sold off)

Almost two months... this page has the discussion about it https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,14379.msg187335.html#msg187335

Thanks for pointing out the thread which indicates toast has left for Notes for good.  Strange that there is no formal announcement of it and it was being mentioned as a by-the-way reply-post in a 'random discussion' thread.  I suppose the the core team finds no value in giving a formal announcement to the community.
They  prob left it to him.. And we know the resullt of that
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: bitmeat on April 15, 2015, 04:19:21 am
I think toast has always been independent, so I don't see what the big fuss is all about. If he wants to work on something he likes no one can stop him. I'm actually excited about this, and now have more confidence in NOTE than ever.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: fuzzy on April 16, 2015, 03:57:40 pm
Quote
I think he made it clear he doesnt believe in same things as other core members i doubt hes working on bts.. Probably helped cause the downtrend by selling his millions of bts and every bts he earns via delegate

Haha, now pointing the finger at Toast? He made it clear he left BTS for Note. And if his delegate wasn't voted out, all pay would go to Valvaz.

Apparently the BTS holders thought this was a good idea, to keep the delegate in. Luckily Fuzzy and the awesome  +5% gang, have decided that in times of crisis creating more 100% delegates is the solution. With the help of BM we are made to believe that the extra created BTS, doesn't have a influence on the price. This is why the price is falling, realization has set in that there will never be a fiat crisis, since QE is apparently the solution.

Thanks, I hate having to repeat this stuff. Maybe it's easier to just turn off the delegates to make it clear to people who don't hang around the forum?
Maybe you can talk a bit more indepth on the cardinal sins that bitshares committed instead of coming off as if tou were right and noone listened to you.. I wouldnt be here if it werent for the delegate system and inflation as other devs.. You will stsrt to see fruit of the labor soon as these tools will be integrated.. Would you have said that if price was rising no.. So you assume its one of the reasons it fell howver i think it makes for a buying opp because all of the work hasnt been priced in.. Nothing in crypto to compare it to..

I check the forum every single day and knew only faintly about it howver its so obvious by the tone of your posts.. Usually happens when dev leaves or has little or no stake (sold off)

Almost two months... this page has the discussion about it https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,14379.msg187335.html#msg187335

Thanks for pointing out the thread which indicates toast has left for Notes for good.  Strange that there is no formal announcement of it and it was being mentioned as a by-the-way reply-post in a 'random discussion' thread.  I suppose the the core team finds no value in giving a formal announcement to the community.

One thing I can say for certain is that I have reached out to toast to join up with the community again on more than a few occasions.   There has been plenty of chances.  To say the entire dev team does not find value in it is to me a bit unfair.   
Toast makes his own decisions and must live with the consequences. ..both positive and negative.
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Empirical1.2 on April 20, 2015, 09:40:19 am
BTS suffers from many problems, past and present and though there are good developments in the pipeline which give BTS a lot of potential, none of them gave me a great deal of certainty that BitAsset use and adoption would increase drastically. Over the last few months I sold over 90%+ of my BTS and was waiting for a significant reversal in either share price or BitAsset adoption before I would consider buying again.

However BitAssets3.0  has completely altered my expectations. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,15775.0.html
These changes or some ultimate variation of them make BitAsset use far more attractive to longs and also to shorts too and I think will largely address BitAssets core problem of liquidity.

I will personally use BitAssets in fairly large quantities, even at the current stage of development. I also anticipate others will do the same.
I think we're going to see a sharp uptick in BitAsset use from existing BTS shareholders & others once these changes are introduced. 

The increased BitAsset CAP's and adoption trend should quickly translate into a much higher valuation for BTS. So I've been buying at these prices even though it could still dip further. 
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on April 20, 2015, 02:45:44 pm
BTS suffers from many problems, past and present and though there are good developments in the pipeline which give BTS a lot of potential, none of them gave me a great deal of certainty that BitAsset use and adoption would increase drastically. Over the last few months I sold over 90%+ of my BTS and was waiting for a significant reversal in either share price or BitAsset adoption before I would consider buying again.

However BitAssets3.0  has completely altered my expectations. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,15775.0.html
These changes or some ultimate variation of them make BitAsset use far more attractive to longs and also to shorts too and I think will largely address BitAssets core problem of liquidity.

I will personally use BitAssets in fairly large quantities, even at the current stage of development. I also anticipate others will do the same.
I think we're going to see a sharp uptick in BitAsset use from existing BTS shareholders & others once these changes are introduced. 

The increased BitAsset CAP's and adoption trend should quickly translate into a much higher valuation for BTS. So I've been buying at these prices even though it could still dip further.

You are welcome to come back via BunkerShares UIA!  :D .. if you want a use case for bitassets this is in my estimation the current most compelling one for use and returns.

Either way happy to hear you are back to buying.  +5%
Title: Re: What's happening with the price?
Post by: Empirical1.2 on April 22, 2015, 10:17:48 am
Actually it looks like Greece might have a bank holiday etc. pretty soon, so I would guess for the next week or so you're better off being in Bitcoin.