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Quote from: binggo on May 09, 2019, 12:48:14 amIf you can't provide a quality feed price and timely view and maintenance it, and didn't understand how important to the smarcoin, please withdraw the witness position.and this also talk to some committee and big Proxy,don't play like a zombie.The witness should have a threshold,which one he want to become a witness should lock 5M bts in the system, i didn't want someone didn't have 1 bts to become the witness and sunk blood from the system.If the fuction of the witness is producing the block only,give Snoopy a computer it wil also can do this.How about let Snoopy become the witness?I agree
If you can't provide a quality feed price and timely view and maintenance it, and didn't understand how important to the smarcoin, please withdraw the witness position.and this also talk to some committee and big Proxy,don't play like a zombie.The witness should have a threshold,which one he want to become a witness should lock 5M bts in the system, i didn't want someone didn't have 1 bts to become the witness and sunk blood from the system.If the fuction of the witness is producing the block only,give Snoopy a computer it wil also can do this.How about let Snoopy become the witness?
If you can't provide a quality feed price and timely view and maintenance it, and didn't understand how important to the smarcoin, please withdraw the witness position.and this also talk to some committee and big Proxy,don't play like a zombie.The witness should have a threshold,which one he want to become a witness should lock 5M bts in the system, i didn't want someone didn't have 1 bts to become the witness and sunk blood from the system.If the fuction of the witness is producing the block only,give Snoopy a computer it wil also can do this.
If the median is manipulated to 0.05 then a will update his feed when he checks next. That's why I said you should *check* frequently.I admit that in your example the feed would be very much off for a short period of time, which could have catastrophic effects. It is an extreme example though, and I think that in practice such a situation would not occur.Still, it makes sense to add another rule:d) if your calculated feed price is off from your published feed price by more than 1-2%, you *should* publish the new price.
Then I do not understand where you see a problem.If b feeds 0.1 and c feeds 0.101 then it doesn't matter if a feeds 0.06 or 0.09.It is only important that a *checks* frequently what the price is. Then if b suddenly feeds 0.059, a can update quickly.
In your example a majority of witnesses collude to manipulate the feed price. That always works, independent from what the minority does.
you are definitely wrong.every witness should input the feed price without any dependence from other witness or median price.this is what the meaning of "witness".here is a possible result when follow your suggest:suppose there are 3 witness, a gives price 0.059USD, b gives 0.06 USD, c gives 0.061 USDwhen the price rise, b change to 0.061, c change to 0.062, a get a new price at 0.06, so he don't need to update feed price.when b and c goes to 0.062, 0.063, a still keep unchange....when b and c goes to 0.1, 0.101, a still keep unchange. now b and c got a chance to control median price between 0.059 to 0.1.for 21 witness, when there are 11 witness always get a little bit higher price, while other 10 always get a little bit lower, this could happen too.Quote from: pc on April 22, 2019, 06:28:32 amQuote from: sahkan on April 21, 2019, 10:27:53 pmIs that were we are trying to go with this? Provide frequent up to a minute feeds?*Publishing* a feed every 2 minutes is normally not required.*Checking* the feed often is a good idea though. Technically you need to publish only ifa) your feed is about to expire, orb) if the new feed price would change your position relative to the median (i. e. old price was below median and new price is above, or vice versa), orc) your feed price *is* the medianYou may want to publish more often than that to avoid being accused of neglecting your duties. :-/
Quote from: sahkan on April 21, 2019, 10:27:53 pmIs that were we are trying to go with this? Provide frequent up to a minute feeds?*Publishing* a feed every 2 minutes is normally not required.*Checking* the feed often is a good idea though. Technically you need to publish only ifa) your feed is about to expire, orb) if the new feed price would change your position relative to the median (i. e. old price was below median and new price is above, or vice versa), orc) your feed price *is* the medianYou may want to publish more often than that to avoid being accused of neglecting your duties. :-/
Is that were we are trying to go with this? Provide frequent up to a minute feeds?
There are many crypto exchanges around the world. They trade many coins and fiat currency, and they charge different fees. For example coinbase charges about .5% to trade and there are withdrawal fees. We can't feed prices based on all the fees that traders pay to acquire a particular coin, it would be impossible to get an accurate feed that way. So this is not how the feed price works or should work:Quote from: zhouxiaobao on April 22, 2019, 04:26:54 pm The feed price should be “how much RMB does it cost to buy 1 BTS?” But ,all along, I have been unable to use RMB to buy BTS at this feed price .It is too low. (DEX price *bitCNY premium )is the actual price I paid. It is totally unfair that the feed price is lower than the price I actually paid.
The feed price should be “how much RMB does it cost to buy 1 BTS?” But ,all along, I have been unable to use RMB to buy BTS at this feed price .It is too low. (DEX price *bitCNY premium )is the actual price I paid. It is totally unfair that the feed price is lower than the price I actually paid.
Quote from: bitcrab on April 13, 2019, 08:35:37 amQuote from: clockwork on April 12, 2019, 08:55:40 amQuote from: sahkan on April 12, 2019, 08:10:09 amyou do realise the prices we publish are not random right?I could cherry pick a combination of exchange routes from USD -> BTS or CNY -> BTS that result in even lower price or even higher than the ones you mention.Thats why we take all of them into account. Don't you think there is no handling charge for such many price changes?All major CEX give you free exchange? This is why the feed price thus calculated is always surprisingly low. The feed price should not be lower than the actual price paid by investors to buy a BTS in the DEX market. In fact, the feed price should take the highest price of several major CEX and DEX, because this is the actual amount of RMB paid by investors.
Quote from: clockwork on April 12, 2019, 08:55:40 amQuote from: sahkan on April 12, 2019, 08:10:09 amyou do realise the prices we publish are not random right?I could cherry pick a combination of exchange routes from USD -> BTS or CNY -> BTS that result in even lower price or even higher than the ones you mention.Thats why we take all of them into account. Don't you think there is no handling charge for such many price changes?All major CEX give you free exchange? This is why the feed price thus calculated is always surprisingly low. The feed price should not be lower than the actual price paid by investors to buy a BTS in the DEX market. In fact, the feed price should take the highest price of several major CEX and DEX, because this is the actual amount of RMB paid by investors.
Quote from: sahkan on April 12, 2019, 08:10:09 amyou do realise the prices we publish are not random right?I could cherry pick a combination of exchange routes from USD -> BTS or CNY -> BTS that result in even lower price or even higher than the ones you mention.Thats why we take all of them into account. Don't you think there is no handling charge for such many price changes?All major CEX give you free exchange? This is why the feed price thus calculated is always surprisingly low. The feed price should not be lower than the actual price paid by investors to buy a BTS in the DEX market. In fact, the feed price should take the highest price of several major CEX and DEX, because this is the actual amount of RMB paid by investors.
you do realise the prices we publish are not random right?I could cherry pick a combination of exchange routes from USD -> BTS or CNY -> BTS that result in even lower price or even higher than the ones you mention.Thats why we take all of them into account.
Is the price of the DEX fake? The daily turnover is tens of millions!
I have two questions:If I offboarding 1 bitCNY to my bank account, how much CNY will I get? If I onboard now 1 CNY, how much bitCNY do I get?This must include all fees in the process.
Even though currently the DEX price more or less reflex the market price; based on buys and sells it can spike significantly in relation to global markets. And of course we can't just feed the DEX price by itself. I have been working on my tuning my prices a bit. I have also noticed that GDEX updates their price feeds every 2 minutes. Is that were we are trying to go with this? Provide frequent up to a minute feeds?
So if the witness can get the "fair" price from the CEX? half of the witness give the lower feed price than the real price, the witnees think they give the "fair" price, can they prove it?
premium is not a fixed value, 1.8% is the value in these 2 days, 4 days before, the premium is about 0.5%. you can only get this value in the market.MSSR has impact on premium but it does not determine the premium.
Every time people in communities outside China talk about the premium of bitcny, they seem to have no idea about the premium at all. I think this should be because they have never tried to buy BTS with direct RMB. They simply cannot understand what the Chinese community has been complaining about.
If I were a trader and saw that margin calls happen regularly, I would place my sell orders 2% above the price at which the least collateralized short position is margin called, for an instant 2% profit. If I wanted to buy CNY on the DEX I would place my order 2% above that price, because otherwise I have no chance of getting it filled.Thus, margin calls and feed price and MSSR all interact with each other. The DEX price is driven by margin calls, which are in turn driven by the feed price and MSSR.If you reduce the MSSR to 1% the premium will also go down to 1%. Does changing MSSR change the "fair" price of bitCNY? I think not, but according to your logic the fair price would then be 1% higher than it is now, not 2%.On an external exchange you don't have that effect, because the external exchange is not influenced by margin calls in the way that the DEX is. The result is that the external trade price is much more natural than the DEX price, and so can more reasonably be called a "fair" price.
The result is that the external trade price is much more natural than the DEX price, and so can more reasonably be called a "fair" price.
Quote from: bitcrab on April 14, 2019, 09:10:28 amI don't care what cause the premium, the fact is the premium is there.You can't repair it if you don't find out why it's broken.And IMO it is quite obvious why it's broken: https://wallet.bitshares.org/#/asset/CNY lists over 200 short positions with a CR of less than 1.8. Whenever BTS goes down a tiny bit in relation to CNY, all of these get margin called, which eats all orders up to MSSR from the market.Also, almost all of them have set a target CR of 1.75, so it's clear that these short positions are *deliberately* kept at such a low collateralization.Fiddling with the feed price is not going to change any of this. Effectively you are trying to re-apply BSIP-42, with the same reasoning, the same justification and probably also the same outcome.Quote from: binggo on April 14, 2019, 02:30:31 pmIf they can't find the “fair” feed price, they should be blamed as they accepted the work.Like I said, in the presence of skewed external markets there is no such thing as *the correct price*. What you call fair may be unfair on others.
I don't care what cause the premium, the fact is the premium is there.
If they can't find the “fair” feed price, they should be blamed as they accepted the work.
Quote from: pc on April 14, 2019, 08:47:16 amBlaming this on the witnesses is short-sighted and unfair IMO.I agree with @pc
Blaming this on the witnesses is short-sighted and unfair IMO.
The reason for the premium is that (once again) shorters are deliberately keeping their positions in margin call territory, which means all orders below MSSR get eaten up by margin calls. Using the DEX price as the feed in this situation would be completely wrong, because the margin calls *define* the DEX price in terms of feed price and MSSR. There is your feedback loop.Blaming this on the witnesses is short-sighted and unfair IMO.
Quote from: clockwork on April 13, 2019, 09:19:12 amHere...take your pick....I'm getting tired of this.We can't simply publish high prices because it suits some people.same goes for low prices.that's why I suggest to feed price based on DEX price and bitCNY premium/discount.who know where there is an CEX has a price of 0.399? if there is, just arbitrage between it and DEX.
Here...take your pick....I'm getting tired of this.We can't simply publish high prices because it suits some people.same goes for low prices.
Quote from: clockwork on April 12, 2019, 08:55:40 amQuote from: sahkan on April 12, 2019, 08:10:09 amI think you meant to say that you "unvoted" us. Seems to me that everyone is within the specified 4%. Also I am one of the few (if not the only one) that uses paid price feeds so my feeds report changes a bit faster than the rest of the network.mine are paid too fwiwpaid price feeds does not mean good price feeds.it's not difficult to know what is the exact BTS price at a moment without rapid price change.when I do below screenshoting, DEX price is of 0.4266, bitCNY has a premium of about 1.8%, BTS price should be about 0.434CNY.at huobi BTS has a price of 0.0629 USDT and in OTC market 1USDT = 6.92CNY, so BTS price should be 0.435CNY.but both paid price feeds gave price 1%+ lower than the market price.
Quote from: sahkan on April 12, 2019, 08:10:09 amI think you meant to say that you "unvoted" us. Seems to me that everyone is within the specified 4%. Also I am one of the few (if not the only one) that uses paid price feeds so my feeds report changes a bit faster than the rest of the network.mine are paid too fwiw
I think you meant to say that you "unvoted" us. Seems to me that everyone is within the specified 4%. Also I am one of the few (if not the only one) that uses paid price feeds so my feeds report changes a bit faster than the rest of the network.