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Quote from: 8bit on November 25, 2013, 11:31:50 amOnce you redeem your BTS from your PTS, is there any point in holding onto PTS? Also, once PTS are already used to redeem BTS, can they not be used again? So someone buying PTS won't know if they're getting PTS+BTS or just PTS?You never lose your PTS, you'll just get additional shares in every DAC. So say if you're holding on to 100 PTS at the launch, after the launch of BitShares, you'll have 100 PTS + 100 BTS. The value of PTS might fall but it still has value because Invictus or other community members might come up with other DACs in the future and honor the same social contract of giving initial shares to PTS holders. Invictus has publicly announced their social contract - every DAC they create will be forked from ProtoShares which means by holding ProtoShares, you get a share of each of the Invictus DACs in the future. That's why they're valuable.
Once you redeem your BTS from your PTS, is there any point in holding onto PTS? Also, once PTS are already used to redeem BTS, can they not be used again? So someone buying PTS won't know if they're getting PTS+BTS or just PTS?
Earthbound like the game Mother 2? If so, bomb
Quote from: bytemaster on November 20, 2013, 01:06:27 amQuote from: her0 on November 20, 2013, 01:03:50 amQuote from: Stan on November 18, 2013, 02:24:20 pmQuote from: Sy on November 18, 2013, 10:14:11 amBut you will only own the PTS mined so far, right?So it's taking a snapshot at release - or will future pts get credited too?Just a snapshot of PTS ownership distribution at first release, when the genesis block of a new DAC is laid down. After that, your PTS are still good for ownership in other developing DACs that honor the ProtoShares Social Contract.Before obtaining a snapshot should be given me some time so that we can withdraw the coins from the trading platform into our wallets, in other words, there should be a prior notice.Yes, that is a very good point. We will give everyone a 2 week notice and the exact block number from which the snapshot will be taken.I drafted the following reply here, before I realized it was a larger problem that needs solving, which I address in the following post:https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1997.msg23020#msg23020
Quote from: her0 on November 20, 2013, 01:03:50 amQuote from: Stan on November 18, 2013, 02:24:20 pmQuote from: Sy on November 18, 2013, 10:14:11 amBut you will only own the PTS mined so far, right?So it's taking a snapshot at release - or will future pts get credited too?Just a snapshot of PTS ownership distribution at first release, when the genesis block of a new DAC is laid down. After that, your PTS are still good for ownership in other developing DACs that honor the ProtoShares Social Contract.Before obtaining a snapshot should be given me some time so that we can withdraw the coins from the trading platform into our wallets, in other words, there should be a prior notice.Yes, that is a very good point. We will give everyone a 2 week notice and the exact block number from which the snapshot will be taken.
Quote from: Stan on November 18, 2013, 02:24:20 pmQuote from: Sy on November 18, 2013, 10:14:11 amBut you will only own the PTS mined so far, right?So it's taking a snapshot at release - or will future pts get credited too?Just a snapshot of PTS ownership distribution at first release, when the genesis block of a new DAC is laid down. After that, your PTS are still good for ownership in other developing DACs that honor the ProtoShares Social Contract.Before obtaining a snapshot should be given me some time so that we can withdraw the coins from the trading platform into our wallets, in other words, there should be a prior notice.
Quote from: Sy on November 18, 2013, 10:14:11 amBut you will only own the PTS mined so far, right?So it's taking a snapshot at release - or will future pts get credited too?Just a snapshot of PTS ownership distribution at first release, when the genesis block of a new DAC is laid down. After that, your PTS are still good for ownership in other developing DACs that honor the ProtoShares Social Contract.
But you will only own the PTS mined so far, right?So it's taking a snapshot at release - or will future pts get credited too?
where do we do that?
Quote from: Stan on November 18, 2013, 02:24:20 pmQuote from: Sy on November 18, 2013, 10:14:11 amBut you will only own the PTS mined so far, right?So it's taking a snapshot at release - or will future pts get credited too?Just a snapshot of PTS ownership distribution at first release, when the genesis block of a new DAC is laid down. After that, your PTS are still good for ownership in other developing DACs that honor the ProtoShares Social Contract.I'm finding it hard to understand why competing DACs would honor Protoshares. What incentives are there? Wouldn't Invictus and Invictus' DACs also be making money off competitors? I've also seen an explanation that referred to the competing DACs wanting an already present customer foundation via Protoshare holders. Does that mean competitors would be inheriting your customer base away from you guys?
wallet_approve_delegate eightbit
Quote from: cassiopaia on November 25, 2013, 10:16:26 pmQuote from: bytemaster on November 25, 2013, 09:40:34 pmCorrect, once you have your BTS you can sell your PTS and keep the BTS.ok thx for your answers But if selling after getting my BTS then iam out of the run for future III product launches ... so it mustn't be clever to do this ...DomainShares, VoteShares, LuckyShares, BitShares 2.0, AP DAC, ....
Quote from: bytemaster on November 25, 2013, 09:40:34 pmCorrect, once you have your BTS you can sell your PTS and keep the BTS.ok thx for your answers But if selling after getting my BTS then iam out of the run for future III product launches ... so it mustn't be clever to do this ...
Correct, once you have your BTS you can sell your PTS and keep the BTS.
Quote from: cassiopaia on November 25, 2013, 08:26:24 pmQuote from: Stan on November 25, 2013, 03:09:18 pmQuote from: 8bit on November 25, 2013, 02:30:17 pmAlso, I'm not sure if you addressed my other question. Let's say Alice has 1PTS which she redeems for 1BTS. She then sells her 1PTS to Bob for 10BTC (It doesn't hurt to dream! ). Bob takes the 1PTS he just bought and attempts to use it to redeem 1BTS. What happens?It is not a redemption process. At one specific point in time, when PTS reaches a specific pre-announced block number in its block chain, the forked BTS DAC will initialize a "matching" genesis block. Whatever PTS you hold as of that block get duplicated into the new DAC. Then its over. Alice will have 1 PTS and 1 BTS.There is no way to recycle your new BTS shares back around for a second forking iteration. That's what trading exchanges are for. so when i get 1:1 change for my PTS in BTS and then sell PTS for example , the buyer can't redeem them again for BTS but he could use it for possible future DACs ?No redemption, that implies trading in. BTS is like a dividend on PTS. Once you earn your BTS you can then trade PTS vs BTS just like PTS vs BTC.
Quote from: Stan on November 25, 2013, 03:09:18 pmQuote from: 8bit on November 25, 2013, 02:30:17 pmAlso, I'm not sure if you addressed my other question. Let's say Alice has 1PTS which she redeems for 1BTS. She then sells her 1PTS to Bob for 10BTC (It doesn't hurt to dream! ). Bob takes the 1PTS he just bought and attempts to use it to redeem 1BTS. What happens?It is not a redemption process. At one specific point in time, when PTS reaches a specific pre-announced block number in its block chain, the forked BTS DAC will initialize a "matching" genesis block. Whatever PTS you hold as of that block get duplicated into the new DAC. Then its over. Alice will have 1 PTS and 1 BTS.There is no way to recycle your new BTS shares back around for a second forking iteration. That's what trading exchanges are for. so when i get 1:1 change for my PTS in BTS and then sell PTS for example , the buyer can't redeem them again for BTS but he could use it for possible future DACs ?
Quote from: 8bit on November 25, 2013, 02:30:17 pmAlso, I'm not sure if you addressed my other question. Let's say Alice has 1PTS which she redeems for 1BTS. She then sells her 1PTS to Bob for 10BTC (It doesn't hurt to dream! ). Bob takes the 1PTS he just bought and attempts to use it to redeem 1BTS. What happens?It is not a redemption process. At one specific point in time, when PTS reaches a specific pre-announced block number in its block chain, the forked BTS DAC will initialize a "matching" genesis block. Whatever PTS you hold as of that block get duplicated into the new DAC. Then its over. Alice will have 1 PTS and 1 BTS.There is no way to recycle your new BTS shares back around for a second forking iteration. That's what trading exchanges are for.
Also, I'm not sure if you addressed my other question. Let's say Alice has 1PTS which she redeems for 1BTS. She then sells her 1PTS to Bob for 10BTC (It doesn't hurt to dream! ). Bob takes the 1PTS he just bought and attempts to use it to redeem 1BTS. What happens?
Quote from: ruletheworld on November 25, 2013, 01:39:46 pmQuote from: 8bit on November 25, 2013, 11:31:50 amOnce you redeem your BTS from your PTS, is there any point in holding onto PTS? Also, once PTS are already used to redeem BTS, can they not be used again? So someone buying PTS won't know if they're getting PTS+BTS or just PTS?You never lose your PTS, you'll just get additional shares in every DAC. So say if you're holding on to 100 PTS at the launch, after the launch of BitShares, you'll have 100 PTS + 100 BTS. The value of PTS might fall but it still has value because Invictus or other community members might come up with other DACs in the future and honor the same social contract of giving initial shares to PTS holders. Invictus has publicly announced their social contract - every DAC they create will be forked from ProtoShares which means by holding ProtoShares, you get a share of each of the Invictus DACs in the future. That's why they're valuable.Ah, I see. Do I get Keyhotee rep/name for holding PTS?Is there incentive for other groups to release their DACs forked from PTS? Or is the success of PTS post-BTS launch pretty much entirely dependent on the success of Invictus' other DACs?
So What will the PTS price go just before and after release of bitshares? There may be lots of people want to get BTS so they buy PTS and few people want to sell. So the price maybe go very high. And PTS may become very cheap after people receive their BTS. In the result, will the price fluctuate dramatically at that time?
so for 6 months the supply will be 1.5 mil, meanwhile 5 million reward blocks are just piling up? By the way this is one of the more interesting things ive come across on the internet. thank you bytemaster
So when the transition happens Protoshares will be honored 1:1. How many bitshares exist? 5 million BTS block reward yes? So since there are aprox 600,000 pts everyone will be sharing like a 1/10 of the first block in founding shares or whatever? If one was trying to acquire BTS would they not be better off just waiting and buying bts or spending that money on mining?
And what are DACs? Digital startups? If so, this coulda been a great idea in 95, we could be stockholders in google, yahoo and facebook, lol
With our protoshares will we be able to turn them in every dac that is bitshare based? The same pts can be used in 10 different DACs?
So if Invictus is invested in a new DAC, they wouldn't necessarily have an incentive to "sabotage" them by selling shares at a super low price? I guess so long as it is a new DAC unrelated to the services that Invictus provides...Say the new DAC is a competing service that Invictus already offers... would there even be incentive for someone to compete with Invictus since Invictus could just change its protocol to the upgraded competing service's protocol and sell off the shares of a competitor at a hyper-undervalued price?
Quote from: bytemaster on November 18, 2013, 06:09:34 pmQuote from: marauder on November 18, 2013, 06:07:29 pmI was wandering, will the mining difficulty be getting reset (for bitshares) or will it be inherited from the PTS difficulty in the genesis block?The initial difficulty for BitShares will be the same order of magnitude as PTS and will adjust continuously.Probably the best way to do it to be honest, it will be interesting to see how the mining forces decide to move around, the community will end up splitting a little more each time a new chain is split off from protoshares, hopefully the growth will be high enough to overcome this/the difficulty won't kill the chain when miners move to different DACs!
Quote from: marauder on November 18, 2013, 06:07:29 pmI was wandering, will the mining difficulty be getting reset (for bitshares) or will it be inherited from the PTS difficulty in the genesis block?The initial difficulty for BitShares will be the same order of magnitude as PTS and will adjust continuously.
I was wandering, will the mining difficulty be getting reset (for bitshares) or will it be inherited from the PTS difficulty in the genesis block?
Quote from: bytemaster on November 17, 2013, 02:26:01 amQuote from: phoenix on November 17, 2013, 02:24:21 amI'm sorry if this has already been explained and I missed it, but how exactly do Protoshares holders get their stake in Bitshares when they come out? I know that you get to keep the PTS for future DACs, but how do we get those Bitshares once they're mined in the Genesis Block? Will they be tied to the same public & private keys as our PTS so we just need to import the private keys on our Bitshares wallet, or is there some other mechanism for obtaining them?You can import your PTS wallet into BitShares and your balance will show up.If I import my wallet, does that mean I lost PTS private key. PTS will continue mining it?
Quote from: phoenix on November 17, 2013, 02:24:21 amI'm sorry if this has already been explained and I missed it, but how exactly do Protoshares holders get their stake in Bitshares when they come out? I know that you get to keep the PTS for future DACs, but how do we get those Bitshares once they're mined in the Genesis Block? Will they be tied to the same public & private keys as our PTS so we just need to import the private keys on our Bitshares wallet, or is there some other mechanism for obtaining them?You can import your PTS wallet into BitShares and your balance will show up.
I'm sorry if this has already been explained and I missed it, but how exactly do Protoshares holders get their stake in Bitshares when they come out? I know that you get to keep the PTS for future DACs, but how do we get those Bitshares once they're mined in the Genesis Block? Will they be tied to the same public & private keys as our PTS so we just need to import the private keys on our Bitshares wallet, or is there some other mechanism for obtaining them?