I know Ken wants to demonstrate how much he is behind cleaning things up, but the vote at the top comes across as a joke wth the 2 artificial/fake options.
The blockchain either requires these few fields to be maintained, or not.
How much gray area would you guys like to add?
This is IMO the biggest problem BitShares faces. No accountability. Voter apathy. Both inhibit growth.
When a Poll (ie: Vote) is successful like this, how do we make our "President" do what we want?approve if he does what you want
By the poll response, I'd say the market has spoken. Workers must be accountable,
Ok, 1) which delegate accounts are responsible?
2) Who are the biggest stakeholders?
accountability is not necessary for a company that is written in software.
Even though there is no accountability in BitShares as a company
I hope to get an answer for EXACTLY this question in the TL;DR; reply for the "big announcement" ..accountability is not necessary for a company that is written in software.
Yes, accountability is required ESPECIALLY in a company that is decentralized around the world. The fact that we cna drive accountability WITH software is just icing on the cake, so how do we get rid of Voter apathy and ENFORCE the workers to be accountable (fines) and reward them when they work hard (bonuses)? Exactly, with a blockchain. (HR)
I hope to get an answer for EXACTLY this question in the TL;DR; reply for the "big announcement" ..
Everyone using public funds should be required to publish their accountability. Else, how are you sure they are doing what they're supposed to?
If accountability didn't evolve when BitShares was a tiny company, do you really think it will evolve if BitShares gets bigger?Yes .. it will .. because shareholders will vote for that
If accountability didn't evolve when BitShares was a tiny company, do you really think it will evolve if BitShares gets bigger?Yes .. it will .. because shareholders will vote for that
Ken, opinions are as varied as people. No need to belittle those who have a different opinion.
IMO forcing delegates to present activity reports is a bit like assuming they are up to no good by default. Why then mistrust by default?
You are not going to fix this presumed voter apathy issue by making reports mandatory, if shareholders are (allegedly) apathethic, then what is a report going to change? Apathethic people don't read reports ;D
It seems to follow, like I said, that if this is something that we as shareholders truly need, then naturally the delegates who don't comply will get voted out, outcompeted.
To presume the issue is with 'apathethic shareholders' is to doom the whole enterprise, for if that is the reality then we have bigger issues than monthly reports.
For the record, I shouldn't have to downvote the "President" just to get him to do what the community has requested of him above. He is doing other things that are extremely important, so, I will not downvote him, but he does need to come to this thread and acknowledge that we want those 10 features listed above added to the core.
This way, I can use those 10 features in our 2 DAC's here in Munich. Our investors REQUIRE accountability, whether the BitShares DAC does or not. Those features need to be coded into DPOS 2.0.
IMO forcing delegates to present activity reports is a bit like assuming they are up to no good by default. Why then mistrust by default?
I really don't get the issue. Isn't there a PUBLIC DATA section?
If shareholders deem it necessary that delegates produce reports regularly, then DON'T VOTE FOR THOSE WHO DON'T!
Isn't the voting for things such as this ? Rather than hardcoding an evergrowing amount of rules into the system.
Personally I couldn't care any less about the reports. Am I going to read 101 reports a month? No.
Are most shareholders? Probably not.
However would I scroll through the list of active delegates now and then and have a look here in the forum (& possibly at their website) regarding their latest feats? Sure thing. Would I not approve a delegate who's been public exposed as riding the gravy train? You bet.
It's good to have the choice.
Nullstreet Journal ... that is what shareholders or investors want to read IMO ...
Nullstreet Journal ... that is what shareholders or investors want to read IMO ...
True! +5%
Nullstreet Journal ... that is what shareholders or investors want to read IMO ...
True! +5%
+5%
Does Bitshares have a "recommended slate" data feed feature? I.E. informed community members publish feeds of recommended votes, and those who subscribe automatically get their votes updated by the client when their feed changes.
Nullstreet Journal ... that is what shareholders or investors want to read IMO ...
True! +5%
+5%
Yep.
Nullstreet Journal ... that is what shareholders or investors want to read IMO ...
True! +5%
+5%
Yep.
Talking about what shareholders want to read, what happened to Stan's Monday dev meeting report?
One thing you gotta acknowledge about "management", it's not too consistent on the follow through. The consistency I can see lies within BM's recital of founding principles (plying politics or real conviction?) and the dedication of the dev team. Beyond that I see pivots come without much of a warning and things change at the drop of a hat around here. No wonder Taluant (sp? moonstone) had a zillion questions for BM the other day, before they took their convo into private space. Do you believe like you once believed in the rhetoric of politicians, or will you wise up and demand tangible accountability in our grassroots ecosystem currently under reconstruction?
Until the details are revealed about the revamping of DPoS into the "trinity" scheme, I will be uneasy with this round of koolaid. I like what I hear so far, but it's not enough to increase my confidence that BitShares will live up to the vision that has been hyped. I truly hope it's not the "devil in the details" but rather benevolent angels.
Off the top of my head, here are a few important questions that come to mind:
- How will multisig be used by delegates? (to choose proposals for what gets on the ballot for shareholder voting or...)
- Will multisig require unanimous (all 101 delegates must sign off) or some lesser %?
- How will dev team's major milestones be set? Proposed to delegates first then approved by shareholders?
- How will the 101 delegates be transitioned into the new "trinity" scheme? Details are important here!
I was once punch drunk with optimism like KC, and I think such enthusiasm is great. But once you've been here awhile you begin to think more critically about this project and how it's run. Being critical is a characteristic we also need in greater supply as the project matures, if done right it's one aspect of keeping people accountable, of growing towards improvement. If there's one thing I see in KC's posts it's the need for accountability, and I can't agree with that more.
I'm not asking for full disclosure of every last detail right now before the dev staff is ready to release this "next big thing", but I am saying this community will forever be negatively affected if the dev staff fails to deliver commensurate with the level of hype and expectations being set. It will very much feel like the disillusionment that comes from faith placed in politicians for tangible, positive change.
I sure hope BM & "the gang" have thoroughly thought through what their about to spring on this community. If they misjudged anything we need to let them know, loudly. It would be great if that can be accomplished using new tools built into the code rather than thru ad hoc means like this forum or scattered conversations. The community has no choice atm except to wait for more info, as it seems whatever is going to happen is mostly already decided.
17,000 lines of code
This project died between Feb and early March this year, Thom.
Do not get too pumped up. It is all history now. You can wait and see what the next big thing is...trinity-Dpos, bitAssets 2.0 and the 17,000 lines of code solving 17 non-existing issues ... a whole lot of nonsense and dust in the eyes of the few left... Just save your nerves, it is all BS that gonna come supposedly early June.
There will probably be one more round on 'great news/secret sauces' iteration 6-9 mo. later, but the thing died several months ago.
(1000BTS bounty to the best answer)
This project died between Feb and early March this year, Thom.
Do not get too pumped up. It is all history now. You can wait and see what the next big thing is...trinity-Dpos, bitAssets 2.0 and the 17,000 lines of code solving 17 non-existing issues ... a whole lot of nonsense and dust in the eyes of the few left... Just save your nerves, it is all BS that gonna come supposedly early June.
There will probably be one more round on 'great news/secret sauces' iteration 6-9 mo. later, but the thing died several months ago.
This project has been dead for months, jshow.
Don't get your "small stakes" in a wad or get too excited to post here, it's all history now.
You can move on, it's ok. You're good enough, you're smart enough, and doggone it, people like you ... on other forums, I'm sure ... I mean, it's possible.
Why stick around a dead project coding 17,000 lines of new code for a new faster way to do things when they could have spent that time fixing old code that's flawed and should be done away with forever!
This place works completely backwards, jshow. You should be heading up the team, because we need to look backwards, not forwards! We need to dwell on our mistakes, try to fix code we've proven cannot possibly work in the future and stop coming up with solutions and new ideas. If I see one more round of secret sauce sagacity I'm going to spew!
But this thing died several months ago, so none of this matters. I don't even know why the two of us are still here, do you?
Did I win?
TUCK YEAH FHEMAN!
Drop me dat addy, but it better not be:
Oh, and I have to toss in a little extra for yoursecret sauce sagacity
I for one, know why I am here....I think I have a few good friends here still with their heads in the sand...
The ship has sunk...I am just the messenger here...
All right kids, there you have it. Your next assignment is to paint me a picture of exactly where we would be today if Protoshares (and AGS of course) had never existed. Imagine the possibilities (this is where they got that motto)(from the fother mucking future)
Somebody, take this money, please don't make me post another James Brown link, please. Please PLEASE PLEEEEEEEEEEEEASEEEEEEEEE!!!!!
(http://i.imgur.com/76arJQo.png)
@BitcoinJesus2.O - You are just all kinds of awesome. Not sure how old you are, but you sound like you've run a few companies yourself.
I can tell you guys, it takes years to develop a badass product. When I first started Line9 Corp (a software company that I built and ran for over 16 years) all we had was a basic shopping cart. Then it became an inventory management system. And then it read barcodes. And then CRM. And then a Project Manager (similar to github). And then it connected to dialin pools. And then it handled RMA's and logistics. And then and then and then.....
Building a software product takes thousands of manhours. Very very expensive manhours.
I was able to skype anybody in the company at any time during their working hours (USA, Latvia, Ukraine, Germany, India, etc). I knew who was doing what, and exactly when it would be done. If the Devs told me two weeks, I told the customer 6 weeks. If I didn't have that kind of control (yes, I said the evil word) who knows what those guys would have been doing.
Patience is key. Accountability is required.
Drive them hard, hire/fire when absolutely necessary, and constantly reward the top performers.
It's not that hard to turn this company around.
Put our technology to Work.. #BlockchainHR
@BitcoinJesus2.O - You are just all kinds of awesome. Not sure how old you are, but you sound like you've run a few companies yourself.
I can tell you guys, it takes years to develop a badass product. When I first started Line9 Corp (a software company that I built and ran for over 16 years) all we had was a basic shopping cart. Then it became an inventory management system. And then it read barcodes. And then CRM. And then a Project Manager (similar to github). And then it connected to dialin pools. And then it handled RMA's and logistics. And then and then and then.....
Building a software product takes thousands of manhours. Very very expensive manhours.
I was able to skype anybody in the company at any time during their working hours (USA, Latvia, Ukraine, Germany, India, etc). I knew who was doing what, and exactly when it would be done. If the Devs told me two weeks, I told the customer 6 weeks. If I didn't have that kind of control (yes, I said the evil word) who knows what those guys would have been doing.
Patience is key. Accountability is required.
Drive them hard, hire/fire when absolutely necessary, and constantly reward the top performers.
It's not that hard to turn this company around.
Put our technology to Work.. #BlockchainHR
I think we need to elect and utilize Ken's skills and knowledge as much as possible.
Ken makes a lot of sense and i love his ideas and drive. +5% +5%
(http://i.imgur.com/76arJQo.png)
are you that? - Tuck Fheman ? ;)
This thread went WAY off topic!
For those who do not speak English well (like myself), the above images are jokes.
I sometimes forget that not everyone gets the joke, or speaks the same language. I apologize if the images alarmed anyone.
I always try to make it somewhat obvious, but if I give in too much it loses it's luster.
Re: the pm I received ... Someone please translate this properly and repost it where necessary to avoid a nuclear panic selloff please. ;)
The language everyone can understand...
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2n4oc4.png)
to the moon? :)not yet ..
to the moon? :)not yet ..
<-- waiting for the "big announcement(s)" to come
to the moon? :)not yet ..
<-- waiting for the "big announcement(s)" to come
Buy the rumor sell the news. :)
FYI - Delegates will soon be called Workers.
DPOS 2.0 (as per BM) utilizes Witnesses, Workers, and Delegates.
The biggest impediment of any decentralized company is Accountability. What is each employee doing at any given moment?
Are these Workers aggressively performing their job duties, taking time off, or just out on a smoke break?
A successful company is one that employs Workers who are driven to see it succeed.
Workers - are paid a fixed number of tokens per day to perform Proposed Services
- Worker Proposal (worker.proposal)
- Worker Monthly Report (worker.report) - aka "Report" below
- Worker proof of work URL's (worker.pow) one or more URL's that allow the public to verify Proposed Services are performed
- Worker Services (worker.services) a "lookup table" of searchable job titles, in order of precedence (ie: show me just the "Tech Support", "Sales" or "Developer" people)
- Worker Description (worker.description) a brief description of what this employee does for BitShares
- Worker Country (worker.country) just a country code so the public knows what timezone the Worker resides in
- Worker Handles (worker.handle) bitsharestalk userid, twitter handle, skype id, etc. (at least 1 handle is required)
BitShares v1.0...
- The date/time-stamped keys/values above will be stored on the blockchain (ie: Factom)
- The blockchain is our HR Worker; Global Holidays, Vacation, Sick Leave, Paternal Leave and designated workdays must be requested/approved by the blockchain.
- will provide a textarea for Worker to submit their monthly Report. That transaction can't be modified after broadcasted. Creating the monthly Newsletter also becomes much easier.
- If Worker edits and resubmits their Proposal, they must be voted in again.
- The Report must be at least 200-5000 characters and it must be at least 10% different than last month's published Report or else HR (the blockchain) won't accept it.
- The Worker will be fined ____BTS per day that their monthly Report is not filed on-time. Once funds are depleted (OR >14 days has passed), Worker is fired automatically.
- The Worker will be fined ____BTS per day if the other 6 keys/values are not valid. Once funds are depleted (OR >14 days has passed), Worker is fired automatically.
- To avoid a Worker taking unapproved time off, the blockchain will track A) Worker wallet has been manually logged into at least once per week, and B) a Witness and a Delegate manually vouches for Worker by each sending 0.5 BTS to the Worker.
- Quarterly BTS bonuses (____% of the current market cap) go to the Top ____ Workers (based on their current rank ("rank" # will be upgraded to include all of the above))
- Workers cannot be voted on until all of their info is published properly.
BitsharesBlocks.com...
- will display the Worker's date/time-stamped Report and the additional validated 6 keys/values.
- If the creation date of the displayed Report is older than 31 days, it is bolded and colored RED with "This Worker has not filed on-time".
Please leave your comments below on adding these managerial "HR" features to our blockchain.
Codename: #BlockchainHR
Notice the red and green text.. Good? Bad?
short answer: no to all.*agreed* ..
In my opinion, the blockchain doesn't care about trivial things, nor should it care. It's up to shareholders to measure and vote, if you feel uncomfortable with a worker, don't vote for it.
In order to "fine" a worker, you'd need a centralized body and that's a big no.
short answer: no to all.
In my opinion, the blockchain doesn't care about trivial things, nor should it care. It's up to shareholders to measure and vote, if you feel uncomfortable with a worker, don't vote for it.
In order to "fine" a worker, you'd need a centralized body and that's a big no.
Funny, the majority of people attacking me on requiring accountability are delegates, or are running for delegate.. I wonder why. :o
A successful company employs Workers that are driven, accountable and rewarded.
Work hard, and prove it. No more hiding.
FYI - Delegates will soon be called Workers.
DPOS 2.0 (as per BM) utilizes Witnesses, Workers, and Delegates.
The biggest impediment of any decentralized company is Accountability. What is each employee doing at any given moment?
Are these Workers aggressively performing their job duties, taking time off, or just out on a smoke break?
A successful company is one that employs Workers who are driven to see it succeed.
Workers - are paid a fixed number of tokens per day to perform Proposed Services
- Worker Proposal (worker.proposal)
- Worker Monthly Report (worker.report) - aka "Report" below
- Worker proof of work URL's (worker.pow) one or more URL's that allow the public to verify Proposed Services are performed
- Worker Services (worker.services) a "lookup table" of searchable job titles, in order of precedence (ie: show me just the "Tech Support", "Sales" or "Developer" people)
- Worker Description (worker.description) a brief description of what this employee does for BitShares
- Worker Country (worker.country) just a country code so the public knows what timezone the Worker resides in
- Worker Handles (worker.handle) bitsharestalk userid, twitter handle, skype id, etc. (at least 1 handle is required)
BitShares v1.0...
- The date/time-stamped keys/values above will be stored on the blockchain (ie: Factom)
- The blockchain is our HR Worker; Global Holidays, Vacation, Sick Leave, Paternal Leave and designated workdays must be requested/approved by the blockchain.
- will provide a textarea for Worker to submit their monthly Report. That transaction can't be modified after broadcasted. Creating the monthly Newsletter also becomes much easier.
- If Worker edits and resubmits their Proposal, they must be voted in again.
- The Report must be at least 200-5000 characters and it must be at least 10% different than last month's published Report or else HR (the blockchain) won't accept it.
- The Worker will be fined ____BTS per day that their monthly Report is not filed on-time. Once funds are depleted (OR >14 days has passed), Worker is fired automatically.
- The Worker will be fined ____BTS per day if the other 6 keys/values are not valid. Once funds are depleted (OR >14 days has passed), Worker is fired automatically.
- To avoid a Worker taking unapproved time off, the blockchain will track A) Worker wallet has been manually logged into at least once per week, and B) a Witness and a Delegate manually vouches for Worker by each sending 0.5 BTS to the Worker.
- Quarterly BTS bonuses (____% of the current market cap) go to the Top ____ Workers (based on their current rank ("rank" # will be upgraded to include all of the above))
- Workers cannot be voted on until all of their info is published properly.
BitsharesBlocks.com...
- will display the Worker's date/time-stamped Report and the additional validated 6 keys/values.
- If the creation date of the displayed Report is older than 31 days, it is bolded and colored RED with "This Worker has not filed on-time".
Please leave your comments below on adding these managerial "HR" features to our blockchain.
Codename: #BlockchainHR
Notice the red and green text.. Good? Bad?
Delegates should do as they please
Funny, the majority of people attacking me on requiring accountability are delegates, or are running for delegate.. I wonder why. :o
A successful company employs Workers that are driven, accountable and rewarded.
Work hard, and prove it. No more hiding.
short answer: no to all.
In my opinion, the blockchain doesn't care about trivial things, nor should it care. It's up to shareholders to measure and vote, if you feel uncomfortable with a worker, don't vote for it.
In order to "fine" a worker, you'd need a centralized body and that's a big no.
Ken, I've been observing your accountability campaign for a while.
I think your intentions are good but the methods you are proposing are not going to get any traction here.
Delegates (or workers) are never going to apply for a sick leave from a blockchain. This is just unrealistic.
Forcing them to report is just a bad idea. It might work in a corporate world but my gut tells me it is just not going to happen here.
Voters would love to make informed decisions but to do so they need an up-to-date and concise source of information.
So let's give them this information.
Let's vote for one HR delegate whose only duty will be preparing, managing and publishing information about all other delegates, both active and stand-by.
Compile delegates' forum posts and compare their promises with results delivered.
Create a dedicated website for this. Make it clear and keep it up-to-date and show their progress (or lack of it).
Your Google roster was such a good start.
If you were willing to become this HR delegate I'll be glad to vote for you.
You are the man, Ken, you have the passion but please make good use of it.
Concentrates a lot of power? I agree.Ken, I've been observing your accountability campaign for a while.
I think your intentions are good but the methods you are proposing are not going to get any traction here.
Delegates (or workers) are never going to apply for a sick leave from a blockchain. This is just unrealistic.
Forcing them to report is just a bad idea. It might work in a corporate world but my gut tells me it is just not going to happen here.
Voters would love to make informed decisions but to do so they need an up-to-date and concise source of information.
So let's give them this information.
Let's vote for one HR delegate whose only duty will be preparing, managing and publishing information about all other delegates, both active and stand-by.
Compile delegates' forum posts and compare their promises with results delivered.
Create a dedicated website for this. Make it clear and keep it up-to-date and show their progress (or lack of it).
Your Google roster was such a good start.
If you were willing to become this HR delegate I'll be glad to vote for you.
You are the man, Ken, you have the passion but please make good use of it.
This is a very reasonable idea, except it concentrates a lot of power in the hands of this delegate, similar to the power of the news media. Centralizing this is quite risky, and it's not likely many will want to do the work you describe.
Delegates (or workers) are never going to apply for a sick leave from a blockchain. This is just unrealistic.
Forcing them to report is just a bad idea. It might work in a corporate world but my gut tells me it is just not going to happen here.
Voters would love to make informed decisions but to do so they need an up-to-date and concise source of information.
So let's give them this information.
Let's vote for one HR delegate whose only duty will be preparing, managing and publishing information about all other delegates, both active and stand-by.
Compile delegates' forum posts and compare their promises with results delivered.
Create a dedicated website for this. Make it clear and keep it up-to-date and show their progress (or lack of it).
Your Google roster was such a good start.
Code it in, and store the data forever on the blockchain.
Storj and Factom tech can help with this, see my series of posts above explaining how this is done.
Thru code, I can easily check grammar, make sure it's 10% than last month's submission, etc.
Factom is a data-layer for the Bitcoin blockchain, that's why I said "tech" after their name. If we have the ability to store additional data on our blockchain, then let's make use of it in a way that brings value to BitShares.
Reports and Proposals won't fit on a wall, that's asking too much.
It sounds like you're not too fond of Factom or Open Transactions. Moonstone has Partnered with them and will be using OT tech as well, so they can't be that bad. I see Factom doing a lot of good things too in securing property registers and such as well.
Factom and Storj are just examples, ways we could access large chunks of data with our blockchain.
Automated firing/hiring/rewards - It's very tough to manage a globally distributed team of people, especially in a large company with hundreds of workers.
No mud here, just perfect clarity. If an employee has 2-weeks of vacation time each year, works M-F, 9-5, has two 15min breaks per shift, then we can calculate how many days they have left (also sick days, paternal, etc). If we need say, 10 Tech Support people, the blockchain will know who is on, who is off, and who will be gone during what days. Now, when a customer calls and needs Tech Support, the blockchain will instantly reveal who is available that second. We could even code it in (like the forum "Notify" feature) to randomly contact one of those available people. Customer Service is everything.
Those are just a few of the great things that can come from really having our proverbial *shit* together, ya know?
At least the "basics". See my definition of that a few posts back..
I don't care about hours or sick days, I care about results.
Shows little understanding that measuring performance relies on information. Easy access to information, not scattered here and there all over the Internet. The blockchain is the obvious place it should reside, so it is available and readily accessible to all shareholders worldwide. Fines or other "enforcement" measures, if shareholders agree to them, must be coded into the fabric of the ecosystem. That is, by consensus and based on publicly accessible info stored on the blockchain. IMO, "enforcement" should be carried out by the shareholders in the form of votes. It could be considered centralized in the blockchain (i.e. information) but decentralized in shareholder voting / consensus.+5%
Ken, I've been observing your accountability campaign for a while.Perhaps the blockchain could be coded to deterministically assign which delegate should audit which other delegate/worker in a cycle so that every delegate and every worker gets an inspection on average of once every 30 days.
I think your intentions are good but the methods you are proposing are not going to get any traction here.
Delegates (or workers) are never going to apply for a sick leave from a blockchain. This is just unrealistic.
Forcing them to report is just a bad idea. It might work in a corporate world but my gut tells me it is just not going to happen here.
Voters would love to make informed decisions but to do so they need an up-to-date and concise source of information.
So let's give them this information.
Let's vote for one HR delegate whose only duty will be preparing, managing and publishing information about all other delegates, both active and stand-by.
Compile delegates' forum posts and compare their promises with results delivered.
Create a dedicated website for this. Make it clear and keep it up-to-date and show their progress (or lack of it).
Your Google roster was such a good start.
If you were willing to become this HR delegate I'll be glad to vote for you.
You are the man, Ken, you have the passion but please make good use of it.
Think of paid Workers like government employees..
Everybody knows what the Postman does all day.
Everybody knows what the Toll-Booth worker does all day.
Everybody knows what the public kindergarten teacher does all day.
But what did the Postal Service warehouse guy do all day today? Yesterday? What did he say he would have done by thursday of next week?
If he's a 100% payrate worker, then he should be proving himself 5 days/week, right?
So what was that logo designer doing for the last 2 months? What's she going to get done tomorrow?
Basics guys, that's all I'm asking. Work hours are part of keeping track too.
If I'm/we're paying someone 100% (a full time job) then I want to know what his real name is, I want to see his face once in a while and I want him to tell ME what's been going on. I shouldn't have to babysit our employees.
Let BlockchainHR at least handle these basics.
That's not too much to ask from someone who is using your money.
Think of paid Workers like government employees..
Everybody knows what the Postman does all day.
Everybody knows what the Toll-Booth worker does all day.
Everybody knows what the public kindergarten teacher does all day.
But what did the Postal Service warehouse guy do all day today? Yesterday? What did he say he would have done by thursday of next week?
If he's a 100% payrate worker, then he should be proving himself 5 days/week, right?
So what was that logo designer doing for the last 2 months? What's she going to get done tomorrow?
Basics guys, that's all I'm asking. Work hours are part of keeping track too.
If I'm/we're paying someone 100% (a full time job) then I want to know what his real name is, I want to see his face once in a while and I want him to tell ME what's been going on. I shouldn't have to babysit our employees.
Let BlockchainHR at least handle these basics.
That's not too much to ask from someone who is using your money.
Think of paid Workers like government employees..You are misunderstanding what blockchains can do.
Everybody knows what the Postman does all day.
Everybody knows what the Toll-Booth worker does all day.
Everybody knows what the public kindergarten teacher does all day.
But what did the Postal Service warehouse guy do all day today? Yesterday? What did he say he would have done by thursday of next week?
If he's a 100% payrate worker, then he should be proving himself 5 days/week, right?
So what was that logo designer doing for the last 2 months? What's she going to get done tomorrow?
Basics guys, that's all I'm asking. Work hours are part of keeping track too.
If I'm/we're paying someone 100% (a full time job) then I want to know what his real name is, I want to see his face once in a while and I want him to tell ME what's been going on. I shouldn't have to babysit our employees.
Let BlockchainHR at least handle these basics.
That's not too much to ask from someone who is using your money.
You shouldn't have to babysit the employees, but if you ask too much you'll never ever hire talent that is anywhere near the top. I personally would never work for such a micromanager. Goodluck finding a productive employee that does high level work and is willing to tell everyone what they're going to do the next day .. and if they do thats just time they could be doing work, no?
I liked the idea of the blockchain hiring people, but never liked the idea of having 100000s of bosses. The reason should be obvious.
Think of paid Workers like government employees..
Everybody knows what the Postman does all day.
Everybody knows what the Toll-Booth worker does all day.
Everybody knows what the public kindergarten teacher does all day.
But what did the Postal Service warehouse guy do all day today? Yesterday? What did he say he would have done by thursday of next week?
If he's a 100% payrate worker, then he should be proving himself 5 days/week, right?
So what was that logo designer doing for the last 2 months? What's she going to get done tomorrow?
Basics guys, that's all I'm asking. Work hours are part of keeping track too.
If I'm/we're paying someone 100% (a full time job) then I want to know what his real name is, I want to see his face once in a while and I want him to tell ME what's been going on. I shouldn't have to babysit our employees.
Let BlockchainHR at least handle these basics.
That's not too much to ask from someone who is using your money.
You have no way to verify their work hours. Thats why people have managers etc in the real world. You're just asking for a system where honest people are screwed and the dishonest continue on. That was my point about the blockchain. You are misunderstanding what blockchains can do. They do not have anyway to enforce anything except by the economics of their tokens. So yes you can easily fire someone, but you can't get a blockchain to make that decision, nor can you make the blockchain report hours in a trustless (? trustful ?) manner.
All people need are tools that shows how much workers are paid and what they've done.
You shouldn't have to babysit the employees, but if you ask too much you'll never ever hire talent that is anywhere near the top. I personally would never work for such a micromanager. Goodluck finding a productive employee that does high level work and is willing to tell everyone what they're going to do the next day .. and if they do thats just time they could be doing work, no?
I liked the idea of the blockchain hiring people, but never liked the idea of having 100000s of bosses. The reason should be obvious.
You were a bigtime developer in early internet days, so you should have some idea about the job market for developers. At least in the West, they're being paid quite well these days. The 100% delegate doesn't touch such a salary, but you seem to suggest they should be working 5 days a week. How do you justify all this? It is all a bit nuts to me. One size fits all approach.
Think of paid Workers like government employees..You are misunderstanding what blockchains can do.
Everybody knows what the Postman does all day.
Everybody knows what the Toll-Booth worker does all day.
Everybody knows what the public kindergarten teacher does all day.
But what did the Postal Service warehouse guy do all day today? Yesterday? What did he say he would have done by thursday of next week?
If he's a 100% payrate worker, then he should be proving himself 5 days/week, right?
So what was that logo designer doing for the last 2 months? What's she going to get done tomorrow?
Basics guys, that's all I'm asking. Work hours are part of keeping track too.
If I'm/we're paying someone 100% (a full time job) then I want to know what his real name is, I want to see his face once in a while and I want him to tell ME what's been going on. I shouldn't have to babysit our employees.
Let BlockchainHR at least handle these basics.
That's not too much to ask from someone who is using your money.
You shouldn't have to babysit the employees, but if you ask too much you'll never ever hire talent that is anywhere near the top. I personally would never work for such a micromanager. Goodluck finding a productive employee that does high level work and is willing to tell everyone what they're going to do the next day .. and if they do thats just time they could be doing work, no?
I liked the idea of the blockchain hiring people, but never liked the idea of having 100000s of bosses. The reason should be obvious.
I know that. The code makes the decisions, and the blockchain keeps track.
"finding a productive employee that does high level work and is willing to tell everyone what they're going to do the next day"
Not a problem. I've done just that for over 20 years and multiple types of globally distributed companies.
It's not too much to require these basics from the people we are paying.
Cass I agree with you on real identity.
If you want to hide behind cute gravatars and nicknames, that's fine.
What I mean is skype. I always skyped with every member of our team. That way I could at least see their face and have real conversation. Telephone conversations with my employees in a different country was never enough.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER BUSINESS PEOPLE IN HERE WITH 20+YRS EXPERIENCE THAT I CAN TALK WITH ABOUT THIS?
Until you've been accountable for hundreds of globally distributed workers, I don't expect most of you to truly understand where I'm coming from.
Let me know when you want to build this company right.
Discussing the stupidity of this clown ken, on a 8 page thread never the less, makes this community look even more desperate and pathetic. To say nothing that every other post same ken is praised as 'one of more effective members of this community'. ken - the self proclaimed enforcer that even the lead developer should report to! Pretty sad.
Think of paid Workers like government employees..
...
If I'm/we're paying someone 100% (a full time job) then I want to know what his real name is, I want to see his face once in a while and I want him to tell ME what's been going on. I shouldn't have to babysit our employees.
One interesting solution, though I'm stealing it from Qora, is hosting html on the blockchain
ARE THERE ANY OTHER BUSINESS PEOPLE IN HERE WITH 20+YRS EXPERIENCE THAT I CAN TALK WITH ABOUT THIS?
Cass I agree with you on real identity.
If you want to hide behind cute gravatars and nicknames, that's fine.
What I mean is skype. I always skyped with every member of our team. That way I could at least see their face and have real conversation. Telephone conversations with my employees in a different country was never enough.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER BUSINESS PEOPLE IN HERE WITH 20+YRS EXPERIENCE THAT I CAN TALK WITH ABOUT THIS?
Until you've been accountable for hundreds of globally distributed workers, I don't expect most of you to truly understand where I'm coming from.
Let me know when you want to build this company right.
I don't care about hours or sick days, I care about results.+5%
If such things are relevant for a particular worker position, the worker can commit to any conceivable accountability system off chain, and provide a hash of that signed commitment on chain. Flexible accountability systems can be enforced manually or by voting scripts if there's support for them, but I see no need to impose a one size fits all solution at the protocol level.
DPOShub - Update and Progress Report
Delegate:
delegate.dposhub-org
By: Michael Paul Maloney (@CryptoPrometheus)
and Jonathan Baha’i (@DataSecurityNode)
Since last month, Jonathan and I have been working to build a simple, solid, functional and
reliable platform for BitShares delegates (which now includes witnesses and workers) to
organize, publish, and syndicate their shareholder updates and proposals and thus create a
more efficient delivery system for vital shareholder (voter) information. We are also implementing a real time communications network similar to Slack for all account holders
(both delegate and non-delegate), and a message board which will enable users to post
classified listings of Meetups, Jobs/Help Wanted, Professional Services, Resumes and ore.
In essence, the first iteration of DPOShub.org will be a multi-facited web-based application
which will include all of the functionality outlined in Phase 1 of the delegate proposal section of our whitepaper ( http://www.dposhub.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/dposhubdelegateproposal.pdf )
, along with several bonus features that I’ve been told I am not allowed to
speak about yet :).
Why do the BitShares members take guys like Mr. Code more seriously than anonymous fools like jshow6666 and BJ2 who don't have the guts to reveal their true identities to those whom they plan to transact business with? What is this crypto world coming to! Bitcoin was founded on the principles of anonymous developers (Satoshi), and single points of control (Gavin the forker), and millionaire early adopters, and electricity mining. BitShares just makes a mockery of everything that is holy in crypto!We had plenty discussion about this in the past .. and, when it comes to delegation, the consensus was that people need to first establish trust and then may get voted in .. independent of revealing the identity.
Yeah ken is silly for using his real name and photo likeness and identity to get instant credibility and mad support within the BitShares community.
Why do the BitShares members take guys like Mr. Code more seriously than anonymous fools like jshow6666 and BJ2 who don't have the guts to reveal their true identities to those whom they plan to transact business with?
Relax, it's a poll, and anyone should be able to vent all kind of ideas,
which might be helpful to reach a better understanding or a new,
even more confusing idea worthwhile of further exploration.
One thing all can learn, avoiding ad hominem attacks is +5%
Show all how smart you are re-phrasing more constructively.
We maybe need only a more streamlined reputation system,
one that works across all roles? I don't know, we'll find out…
I hope that knowledgeable people will jump in and explain …