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Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: speedy on September 17, 2014, 05:02:41 pm

Title: Incentivize taking BTSX off the exchanges
Post by: speedy on September 17, 2014, 05:02:41 pm
This post is probably quite obvious, but I think its worth talking about.

IMO a big thing holding back the BTSX price/adoption is that people are just happy to trade it back and forth on the centralized exchanges. If more people would take it off the exchanges and trade via shorting/buying BitUSD, then it would lock up more money into BitAssets, thereby restricting the supply of BTSX.

Because of collateral, the following equation applies:
Code: [Select]
Sum of BTSX > Sum of BitAssets * 3
So the question is how do we incentivize people to start using the internal exchange instead? The obvious answer is that the QT wallet needs to be really beautiful & intuitive - even more than bter.com etc.

But perhaps there are other innovative ways of incentivizing the use of the wallet? Can anyone think of other ways?
Title: Re: Incentivize taking BTSX off the exchanges
Post by: 38PTSWarrior on September 17, 2014, 05:15:08 pm
It would be nice to make the market into a 3d game. There you can go to the tavern and talk to the bartender about prices, or go to the exchange house near by and you have a little animal that sometimes tells you when it is a good time to short here or there.



Title: Re: Incentivize taking BTSX off the exchanges
Post by: Method-X on September 17, 2014, 05:16:04 pm
Does anyone else think exchanges may see BTSX as a threat to their business model?
Title: Re: Incentivize taking BTSX off the exchanges
Post by: Shentist on September 17, 2014, 06:53:49 pm
i don't get it!

you need 3rd party exchanges to let people exchange other crypto or dollars into BTSX. you would just hurt our community.
Title: Re: Incentivize taking BTSX off the exchanges
Post by: Akado on September 17, 2014, 07:05:33 pm
i don't get it!

you need 3rd party exchanges to let people exchange other crypto or dollars into BTSX. you would just hurt our community.

unfortunately, this is true.

We need an ATM where we can deposit fiat and it automatically trades for the equivalent BitAsset :D
Title: Re: Incentivize taking BTSX off the exchanges
Post by: alt on September 17, 2014, 10:10:54 pm
this is a good question

来自我的 HUAWEI P7-L00 上的 Tapatalk

Title: Re: Incentivize taking BTSX off the exchanges
Post by: bernard on September 18, 2014, 12:03:50 am
Something like LocalBitcoins for BitUSD would be my recommendation.

You meet up with local sellers, hand over a $20 dollar note and seller transfers you $20 dollars BitUSD.

Quick and easy, no exchange rate haggling!
Title: Re: Incentivize taking BTSX off the exchanges
Post by: chryspano on September 18, 2014, 01:28:48 am
We need the exchanges so that people can quickly trade btc and fiat to get btsx. People that want to sell btsx I'm sure they can use the internal market for a large percentage of their trade volume. I initially used an exchange for 100% of the btsx I bought but when it comes to selling I used the internal market for 40% of my sales. 
Title: Re: Incentivize taking BTSX off the exchanges
Post by: yellowecho on September 18, 2014, 05:08:20 am
If bitUSD paid interest and there was an in-client gateway to USD and CNY then there'd be no need for external exchanges and increased liquidity.. and the increase in holdings and liquidity in-client will lesson the
dependence of delegate price feeds.
Title: Re: Incentivize taking BTSX off the exchanges
Post by: cube on September 18, 2014, 12:21:34 pm
Does anyone else think exchanges may see BTSX as a threat to their business model?

I believe they do.  They may not see BTSX a threat in near term but it could in time to come.
Title: Re: Incentivize taking BTSX off the exchanges
Post by: hadrian on September 18, 2014, 03:20:53 pm
One potential problem with the centralized exchanges is theft. I'm thinking about the large amount of NXT which was stolen (because of improper practices on the part of the exchange) from bter.

If something like this were to happen with any BitShares stuff it would cause significant harm.

I don't know whether or not people from BitShares or the community have worked with the exchanges in order to ensure, as far as possible, that problems don't occur. Is anybody aware to what extend this sort of collaboration has occurred?

I believe this to be worth the effort and time because it could avert a major blow.
Title: Re: Incentivize taking BTSX off the exchanges
Post by: serejandmyself on September 18, 2014, 03:26:55 pm
you got a point there, but right now there is now way of getting btsx apart from direct exchange. when we will be able to connect the bitcoin and btsx wallet, like people here talked about. then you should take it off i believe
Title: Re: Incentivize taking BTSX off the exchanges
Post by: oldman on September 18, 2014, 05:47:23 pm
Something like LocalBitcoins for BitUSD would be my recommendation.

You meet up with local sellers, hand over a $20 dollar note and seller transfers you $20 dollars BitUSD.

Quick and easy, no exchange rate haggling!

This is quite fascinating.

Instead of having to overcome the mental resistance to trading 'real money' for 'magic internet money' (ie. USD for BTC), folks can trade USD for bitUSD.

If bitUSD yield >= inflation this could be a lightbulb moment for a lot of folks.

Once they see how quick/easy it is to move bitAssets *and* see the yield roll in there will be no going back.

bitUSD/CNY/EUR/CAD etc. could be the gateway drug for the whole crypto eco system.

I know there's lots of discussion about Ripple/Stellar but no one understands what hell that means.

Now if localbitcoins could be convinced to add bitUSD or whatever the regional currency is a huge pipeline would open up practically overnight.
Title: Re: Incentivize taking BTSX off the exchanges
Post by: unimercio on September 18, 2014, 05:58:15 pm
I'm not sure we could unilaterally "take it off" the exchanges, assuming we wanted to.

I suspect we would need some type of "multi sig sanctioning mechanism" built into the DAC  to white/black list were it's officially traded or not.  ???  It would actually be a nice governance safety feature to weed out rogue exchanges (or all exchanges).
Title: Re: Incentivize taking BTSX off the exchanges
Post by: Chuckone on September 18, 2014, 06:05:20 pm
Now if localbitcoins could be convinced to add bitUSD or whatever the regional currency is a huge pipeline would open up practically overnight.

A direct pipeline from any currency to its equivalent in bitasset... The day it happens I'll be a happy man! Right now you have to buy Bitcoin with fiat on some exchange or OTC system (and pay a transaction fee), use those BTC to buy BTSX or buy any bitasset currently available on the exchanges (pay a transaction fee), transfer those BTSX/bitassets to your account (pay a transaction fee)... And all these transactions fees are paid out of the Bitshares ecosystem.

Not exactly the definition of efficiency...
Title: Re: Incentivize taking BTSX off the exchanges
Post by: donkeypong on September 18, 2014, 06:19:30 pm
When the one-stop shop arrives, people will be buying BTC --> BTSX on exchanges and simply not know it, because from their one-page interface it will all appear to be a seamless part of BitShares.
Title: Re: Incentivize taking BTSX off the exchanges
Post by: Ggozzo on September 18, 2014, 06:28:21 pm
BitUSD is based on BTSX and the dollar, or BTSX and the yuan. You can't get rid of third party exchanges because the peg is based on what you can sell BTSX for in fiat. We need the third party exchanges. It's the only true gauge of value for BTSX and thus the bitassets.


What is needed is a direct exchange. Someone needs to create a coinbase for BTSX/bitUSD. You would need about $50k to probably start. I think the mbs license is $5000 and then you would need to developer a website and have a reserve for lawyers, servers, hot and cold storage etc.
Title: Re: Incentivize taking BTSX off the exchanges
Post by: hadrian on September 18, 2014, 08:08:14 pm
I'm not sure we could unilaterally "take it off" the exchanges, assuming we wanted to.

I suspect we would need some type of "multi sig sanctioning mechanism" built into the DAC  to white/black list were it's officially traded or not.  ???  It would actually be a nice governance safety feature to weed out rogue exchanges (or all exchanges).

It could, under certain circumstances, be undesirable for some exchanges to trade BTSX. However, my first thought is that we should never implement such things as whitelists and blacklists within the protocol, even if doing so becomes highly tempting. It would "open up a can of worms", setting a precedent which could kill the DAC by undermining a lot of what it stands for. Fungibility must be maintained.

This kind of relates to NXT's decision relating to the huge theft of NXT from bter exchange. The NXT community discussed whether or not to roll back the blockchain in order to "undo" the theft. They decided (very sensibly in my view) not to alter the blockchain. If they'd rolled back the blockchain, how could people have any confidence in NXT going forward? There could be constant gray areas, disputes and problems occurring which would turn into a nightmare. People must have confidence in the underlying protocol without the possibility of people coming along and moving their "money" from under their feet.

The existence of blacklists and whitelists introduces too much possibility for the kind of power leading to corruption that we see in the FIAT world. I think we should level the playing field rather than recreate the old one.
Title: Re: Incentivize taking BTSX off the exchanges
Post by: patrickb323 on September 18, 2014, 08:42:37 pm
there needs to be a super simple BitUSD Wallet to support these on ramps.   no btsx functionality  included. 
Title: Re: Incentivize taking BTSX off the exchanges
Post by: bernard on September 19, 2014, 10:19:05 pm
there needs to be a super simple BitUSD Wallet to support these on ramps.   no btsx functionality  included. 

Thats a god idea.. remove all mentions of BTSX, remove the bit from bitUSD.. users just run the app, it shows a USD balance which they can spend or save :)
Title: Re: Incentivize taking BTSX off the exchanges
Post by: donkeypong on September 24, 2014, 04:46:20 am
there needs to be a super simple BitUSD Wallet to support these on ramps.   no btsx functionality  included. 

Thats a god idea.. remove all mentions of BTSX, remove the bit from bitUSD.. users just run the app, it shows a USD balance which they can spend or save :)

I fully agree with you if you change that to "BitUSD". We cannot mislead anyone into thinking it's the 'real' USD or else someone is going to jail.
Title: Re: Incentivize taking BTSX off the exchanges
Post by: alphaBar on September 24, 2014, 11:10:15 pm
No need to recreate the wheel, the best solution to this problem has already been implemented... in Nxt. "Nxt Multigateway" allows trustless BTC <-> Nxt trading using multisig. A similar solution should be built for BTSX.
Title: Re: Incentivize taking BTSX off the exchanges
Post by: matt608 on September 25, 2014, 09:54:30 am
there needs to be a super simple BitUSD Wallet to support these on ramps.   no btsx functionality  included.

That sounds interesting.  Individual wallets for the most popular crypto assets.  Not everyone wants to have all the other stuff.