BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: xeroc on June 06, 2014, 10:25:56 am
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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426303.msg7122197#msg7122197
Interesting quote:
NEM And The Altcoin Landscape
Unfortunately the altcoin landscape is currently plagued with cheap scams and elaborate pump and dump schemes along with a horde of impulsive people enjoying playing this game. However NEM has nothing to do with this landscape. While we may well go through a cambrian crypto-explosion phase, NEM seems to be already between the fittest and is only getting stronger every passing day.
I know things are more complex but for the sake of simplicity consider the following graph:
The Altcoin Landscape
Cheap Scams Elaborate Scams Clones Low Innovation Deep Innovation
I--------------------I--------------------I--------------------I--------------------I
Approx. Time: 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month 3 - 6 Months 1 Year
Approx. Difficulty: 1/10 2/10 4/10 6/10 10/10
Approx. Value Created: 1 btc 10 btc 50 btc 100 btc 10000 btc
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Very interesting :)
Well Bitshares is definitely in the 'deep innovation' side
I don't remember the source but I remember reading that the best predictor
of whether kids will be financially successful later or not is the marshmallow test.
Delayed Gratification
Not IQ or anything but the marshmallow test.
Instant Gratification=Hunter Gatherer Genes
Delayed Gratification=Farmer Genes
Very interesting stuff
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wow .. you have a link?
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I was reading something dealing with NEM development and they also list Bitshares as an influence.
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1500 dollars for a nem stake. :o
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1500 dollars for a nem stake. :o
Cheap, eh ? :) NEM is impressive. A really passionate dev team + putting forth a lot of effort into distribution. Not familiar with anything similar.
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Is NEM just a hype or a real deal? I haven't done my research on it, but so far i only see a hype with no substance to back it up. :o
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I got a stake in the original NEM so I guess that's still valid.
I think it's mostly hype, they were mainly a NXT clone at the time, but felt they were addressing the initial distribution problem associated with POS. Personally I don't think they did and looking at where NXT is now valuation wise, I think NXT has mostly got over that distribution perception hurdle.
I only got a stake to hedge my NXT position, but haven't even looked at NEM again in last few months, so maybe they have some new 'deep innovation' now...
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Typically the market knows something. The stake price has been liquid for quite some time now and seems to have settled at a particular price. Also remember that a stake is one four thousandth of the whole cap. 1500 dollars for one is 6 million market cap.. quite reasonable really. They certainly handle the volume of people brilliantly across the threads and complexities. We are just surprised our minor investment turned into 2+ bitcoin, but that is crypto world :D
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I can concur. The price before the listing on the NXT asset exchange was around 0.5BTC (this would mean the stakeholder selling his forum account). Price seems stable between 2-3 BTC for two weeks now.
Its still vapourware of course. But you have to consider that the development team is shaping up, and their PR is amazing. And apart from some loose change in fees all the devs have is the developers stake in a yet to be born crypto, which motivates.
NEM was born when the first boobytrapped NXT source code was released (february somewhere). You had around 20 (some scammy scammy) NXT forks on the boards. Utopianfuture was behind one of them and got good response by the community because of the egalitarian distribution thing. NEM (and NAS) were the only ones to pull through. Utopianfuture shaped up, got a development team together from people that contributed to NXT, started from scratch, and went for it.
I used to be envious at the 73 that were in the original NXT IPO. That was until the day NEM listed on the Nxt Asset Exchange. I'm looking at 1500$ for posting 'interested' on page 17 of a thread on a dodgy internet forum. Talk about ROI :)
Anyways. I'm in the process of listing my stake on the NXT asset exchange for security reasons (I'm not trusting theymos with my 1500$) and in order to do so I needed a NXT wallet.
I downloaded this:
http://nxtra.org/nxt-wallet/
Regardless of what you think of NXT, the above wallet has functionality, ease of use, eye-candy, and a built-in decentralized exchange. It is perhaps the first wallet to come out of crypto that looks like a commercial product. Bytemaster if you are reading this: the stakes have been raised :)
[edited for edits]
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And recall, NEM did not come out of nowhere, it reached escape velocity from a cesspool (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF5L0VqEfcw#t=2m25s) of NXT clones where evolution accelerated to a high pitch. x)
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And recall, NEM did not come out of nowhere, it reached escape velocity from a cesspool (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF5L0VqEfcw#t=2m25s) of NXT clones where evolution accelerated to a high pitch. x)
That was what I was trying to explain :) Thanks :) NEM was the only one out of 167 that I deemed worthy of my 'interested' post :)
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OK, so it started as an NXT clone and then devs changed their mind and decided develop their own coin.
lol scam :P
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.... That was until the day NEM listed on the Nxt Asset Exchange. I'm looking at 1500$ for posting 'interested' on page 17 of a thread on a dodgy internet forum. Talk about ROI :)
Anyways. I'm in the process of listing my stake on the NXT asset exchange for security reasons (I'm not trusting theymos with my 1500$) ...
I am not familiar with this NEM business… If I buy your stake on the exchange what assurance do I get that I will receive my actual NEM?
Do not get me wrong - I like your picture on this forum , it screams ‘dependable and trustworthy,’ but is that all I have to rely on, or is there other mechanism to help me sleep till I actually get the stake?
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.... That was until the day NEM listed on the Nxt Asset Exchange. I'm looking at 1500$ for posting 'interested' on page 17 of a thread on a dodgy internet forum. Talk about ROI :)
Anyways. I'm in the process of listing my stake on the NXT asset exchange for security reasons (I'm not trusting theymos with my 1500$) ...
I am not familiar with this NEM business… If I buy your stake on the exchange what assurance do I get that I will receive my actual NEM?
Do not get me wrong - I like your picture on this forum , it screams ‘dependable and trustworthy,’ but is that all I have to rely on, or is there other mechanism to help me sleep till I actually get the stake?
Thank you. I'm currently working with my associates Trendon Shavers and Brock Pierce on a bitcoin project that will change the world as we know it. Its called Mt. Wrox and we have early bird investment opportunities through a BTC address announced shortly.
If you are a participant in the New Economy Movement your only method of identification is the forum account that was used to show your interest. This means that theymos (owner of bitcointalk) is essentially in control of 6 million worth of NEM as it stands now.
If you transfer your stake to the NXT asset exchange it is protected by a random 12 word password. But is is still an IOU, since NEM is in pre-alpha. Utopianfuture promises to redeem NEM asset exchange stakes in the same fashion as he will redeem BTC talk accounts who are on the stakeholder list. Once you buy a stake, you buy an IOU by the NEM team. The NXT exchange is like Counterparty.
Difference is that now I got an IOU from NEM lead dev rather than from theymos. Plus, BTCtalk has been hacked before, and the NTX exchange is far more hack proof.
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"If you transfer your stake to the NXT asset exchange"
One can do that? How?
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Very easy. There are ca. 3000 bitcointalk accounts on the NEM stakeholders list. Anyone of those can send a PM to utopianfuture requesting their stake to be listed. Utopianfuture created an asset on the NEM Asset Exchange, called NEM. You PM him with your NXT address, and utopianfuture will send you a NEM asset (a token for your NEM stake). Once NEM launches you can send this token back to utopianfuture to claim your coins. You can keep the token in in your next wallet or you can trade it on the exchange.
EDIT: utopianfuture created 1000 NEM assets, any stakeholder can get one while stocks last.
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WAW...
And he i.e ‘utopianWhatever’ listed all those shares just as an estimate how many people would like to do that and/or sell their stake?
Cool…
Wish somebody have listed AGS the same way and offered ‘simulated tradability” for the AGS shares… :)
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WAW...
And he i.e ‘utopianWhatever’ listed all those shares just as an estimate how many people would like to do that and/or sell their stake?
Cool…
Wish somebody have listed AGS the same way and offered ‘simulated tradability” for the AGS shares… :)
Utopianfuture (REMBER THAT NAME!) listened to a request from the community: to have stakes tradable before release. So that any dumpers could cash out and any interested people could get in even after registrations closed.
He then gave the option for stakes be traded on the NXT AE, on MSC and on Counterparty. With a minimum of 100 people interested in any of the above listed before he'd enable trading. NXT AE was the winner.
The 1000 tokens were his estimate of how much would be needed to satisfy the communities' request. As of now 400 or so have been transferred so it seems he was ok with that estimate.
AGS could be listed in the same fashion on both Counterparty or the NXT Asset exchange. But asking I3 to allow that is probably like asking the Pope for permission to shoot a porn gig inside the Sistine Chapel.
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AGS could be listed in the same fashion on both Counterparty or the NXT Asset exchange. But asking I3 to allow that is probably like asking the Pope for permission to shoot a porn gig inside the Sistine Chapel.
+5% I know man!
Now I like more than your picture Mrrr :) +5%
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And recall, NEM did not come out of nowhere, it reached escape velocity from a cesspool (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF5L0VqEfcw#t=2m25s) of NXT clones where evolution accelerated to a high pitch. x)
At the time I was very into reading bitcointalk I found the thread. It had a different vibe and I watched it grow and saw how much effort they put into catching sock puppets. Nothing terribly unfair but they put forth a lot of effort. There were times I questioned it, but patmast3r and utopianfuture always came across as legitimate. Anyone who dismisses it doesn't have their pulse on crypto-currency or has missed the factors that make winning "coins". NEM could very well surpass NXT. It is vaporware though, but so are many projects.
UF puts no effort as establishing his credibility and will just say google my name. It is there you see his passion etc. Maybe they'll flub the implementation, but given implementations are already out there... I am not sure why anyone would expect it.
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Very interesting :)
Well Bitshares is definitely in the 'deep innovation' side
I don't remember the source but I remember reading that the best predictor
of whether kids will be financially successful later or not is the marshmallow test.
Delayed Gratification
Not IQ or anything but the marshmallow test.
Instant Gratification=Hunter Gatherer Genes
Delayed Gratification=Farmer Genes
Very interesting stuff
If i recall correctly the results suggested a high correlation between the ability to delay gratification and high IQs in children tested later in life in addition to the genetic expression of hunter/gatherer vs producer traits. Very interesting study.
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Very interesting :)
Well Bitshares is definitely in the 'deep innovation' side
I don't remember the source but I remember reading that the best predictor
of whether kids will be financially successful later or not is the marshmallow test.
Delayed Gratification
Not IQ or anything but the marshmallow test.
Instant Gratification=Hunter Gatherer Genes
Delayed Gratification=Farmer Genes
Very interesting stuff
If i recall correctly the results suggested a high correlation between the ability to delay gratification and high IQs in children tested later in life in addition to the genetic expression of hunter/gatherer vs producer traits. Very interesting study.
Could also just mean you're a kid like me who just doesn't like sweets all that much. Don't know if I was smart enough back then to eat the yucky thing before the big strange man brings more of them.
Anyway I wouldn't put too much value in tests like those predicting your future success. Look at me, my life certainly didn't turn out in the way those tests would suggest.
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I haven't done any research regarding NEM but I intend to do so...Do you believe it is too late now? I think I read some posts from NXT forum saying that NEM is not a threat to NXT, that they bought cheap NEM and now are selling etc..So if NXTers got first NEM stakes and are dumping now their shares I don't think there is much potential with NEM but I might be mistaken ofcourse..
Something else that might sound silly to many people is the name "NEM" is not nice. "NXT" "Next generation bla bla" is much nicer...I can't believe that any cryptocurrency, equity will survive without a nice name...
PPC is obviously a better coin than bitcoin. But how on earth they came up with the name peerpeer coin? The could have just called it p2pcoin...
Black coin also could be a nice coin. Why on earth would you call a coin "black" and stigmatize it whith racism? Same applies to "Darkcoin"...oooo dark..drugs, anonymity, illegal activities....
Some people really should pay more attention how they name their coins...
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I haven't done any research regarding NEM but I intend to do so...Do you believe it is too late now? I think I read some posts from NXT forum saying that NEM is not a threat to NXT, that they bought cheap NEM and now are selling etc..So if NXTers got first NEM stakes and are dumping now their shares I don't think there is much potential with NEM but I might be mistaken ofcourse..
Something else that might sound silly to many people is the name "NEM" is not nice. "NXT" "Next generation bla bla" is much nicer...I can't believe that any cryptocurrency, equity will survive without a nice name...
NXT is sorta a marketyable name isn't it ? NEM has new economy movement though which captures a lot of anger at established fiat systems. So it might be a toss.
As far as reading NXT threads, of course guys are going to say they are now selling NEM etc. What else would you expect ? If I had a bunch of spare BTC sitting around I'd buy stakes at 2 btc all day just to diversify. Seems quite likely for that to be profitable. Give estimations it'll hit certain market caps etc... do the math.
Remember these guys are trying to make basically a 3rd generation currency off the backs of all the mistakes elsewhere.
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I haven't done any research regarding NEM but I intend to do so...Do you believe it is too late now? I think I read some posts from NXT forum saying that NEM is not a threat to NXT, that they bought cheap NEM and now are selling etc..So if NXTers got first NEM stakes and are dumping now their shares I don't think there is much potential with NEM but I might be mistaken ofcourse..
Something else that might sound silly to many people is the name "NEM" is not nice. "NXT" "Next generation bla bla" is much nicer...I can't believe that any cryptocurrency, equity will survive without a nice name...
PPC is obviously a better coin than bitcoin. But how on earth they came up with the name peerpeer coin? The could have just called it p2pcoin...
Black coin also could be a nice coin. Why on earth would you call a coin "black" and stigmatize it whith racism? Same applies to "Darkcoin"...oooo dark..drugs, anonymity, illegal activities....
Some people really should pay more attention how they name their coins...
I have my NEM stake. I take bitshares more seriously, but I like NEM better than NXT at current price... mostly a gut feeling. NEM stands for "New Economy Movement" I actually like the name better than NXT. I think they are auctioning off a good number of stakes after they release an alpha. I'm not sure if it would be cheaper now or then, but you could wait for the auction to play it safer. And of course nothing is released so it's speculation. I like bitshares in the long run but lots of people are into NEM and I could see it going up a lot.
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OK, so it started as an NXT clone and then devs changed their mind and decided develop their own coin.
lol scam :P
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=649852.0
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OK, so it started as an NXT clone and then devs changed their mind and decided develop their own coin.
lol scam :P
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426303.msg7273210#msg7273210 :o
lol, I know NXTchg deleted lot of posts by ghosthouse in his simcoin topic. But it is funny to see it turn out to be the dev of NEM, very interesting.
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OK, so it started as an NXT clone and then devs changed their mind and decided develop their own coin.
lol scam :P
Yea, guys who go through 3000 line spreadsheets to remove sock puppets via taint analysis / board activity are creating a scam. At that point they already had most of the money.
My guess is they realized how flawed using NXT code would be, so they changed course. Why would that equate scam ?
The funniest thing is seeing NXT's asset exchange and the asset with the most volume BY FAR is an up and coming coin yet to be released. LOOL at the FUD being flung about.
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OK, so it started as an NXT clone and then devs changed their mind and decided develop their own coin.
lol scam :P
Yea, guys who go through 3000 line spreadsheets to remove sock puppets via taint analysis / board activity are creating a scam. At that point they already had most of the money.
My guess is they realized how flawed using NXT code would be, so they changed course. Why would that equate scam ?
The funniest thing is seeing NXT's asset exchange and the asset with the most volume BY FAR is an up and coming coin yet to be released. LOOL at the FUD being flung about.
Uhm, actually i used "lol scam :P" in a sarcastic way. Anyway, utopianfuture just messed up badly.
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OK, so it started as an NXT clone and then devs changed their mind and decided develop their own coin.
lol scam :P
Yea, guys who go through 3000 line spreadsheets to remove sock puppets via taint analysis / board activity are creating a scam. At that point they already had most of the money.
My guess is they realized how flawed using NXT code would be, so they changed course. Why would that equate scam ?
The funniest thing is seeing NXT's asset exchange and the asset with the most volume BY FAR is an up and coming coin yet to be released. LOOL at the FUD being flung about.
Uhm, actually i used "lol scam :P" in a sarcastic way. Anyway, utopianfuture just messed up badly.
Yea he did and it is very unfortunate. Definitely a blackeye on NEM but it won't kill it. It is the fact that apparently he had sock puppet accounts for extra stakes that is worrisome, not
that he had an account to troll/criticize the dev of another coin for being a phoney.
My apologies for missing sarcasm. Read it as a NXTer taunt. ;) Even with emoticons we lose meanings.
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Yea he did and it is very unfortunate. Definitely a blackeye on NEM but it won't kill it. It is the fact that apparently he had sock puppet accounts for extra stakes that is worrisome, not
that he had an account to troll/criticize the dev of another coin for being a phoney.
My apologies for missing sarcasm. Read it as a NXTer taunt. ;) Even with emoticons we lose meanings.
No worries :D
And yeah, sock puppet accounts is much worse than his trolling in a simcoin thread.
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PPC is obviously a better coin than bitcoin. But how on earth they came up with the name peerpeer coin? The could have just called it p2pcoin...
actually they did.
originally it was p2pcoin. thats how the symbol ended up being PPC
but people ended up finding it easier to shorten to just ppcoin.
then last year the community decided that ppcoin is silly, and opted to rebrand it to peercoin.
so now it's peercoin, but like how Bitshares-PTS ended up with PTS from originally being protoshares, they ended up keeping the original symbol.
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I failed in my personal conduct and not adhere to the rules I set myself. If you are familiar with American politics, now I have the Eliot Spitzer or Anthony Weiner problem.
I had a few sockpuppet accounts but I have no intention of cashing out any of them. I did not write down the sock accounts (using an arbitrary password that I can't remember) neither and plan to donate the fees for the development fund. I created sock accounts to keep the thread at a high demand when we have few supporters. Ghosthouse is the only account I kept using more so that I can use it sometimes to cheer up NEM threads.
It is what it is. I apologize to my core team members, to all NEM supporting developers and helpers for this issue. I will step down from now on.
The task of maintaining NEM stakeholder list will be transfered to Patmast3r. He has been sharing the access to the file with me for quite sometimes. NEMtoken account will be passed to Pastmast3r as well.
NEM Twitter account will be transfered to Makoto and he could pass on to the most suitable person.
NEM development fund accounts will be fully transfered to Jaguar0625, Gimre and Thies1965.
Ournem website will be transfered to the core team as well.
Update and Discussion and Refunds threads will be closed after new threads with similar functions can be made up.
All press contacts will be passed to the core team so that they can find an appropriate person for the job.
I resign from all leading function within NEM and this will be the last post of UtopianFuture.
What can I say – Good that Bitshares does not distribute ownership based on forum accounts…
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what is the problem there? he created sock puppet accounts and claimed more NEMs? And why this is a problem? Everybody is supposed to have only 1 NEM stake? If so, how come on NXT AE people are trading more than 1 stake?
Or it is the question of morality that he was chasing sock puppet accounts and in fact he has created some?
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and more importantly...how low do you think NEM stake will fall now?
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what is the problem there? he created sock puppet accounts and claimed more NEMs? And why this is a problem? Everybody is supposed to have only 1 NEM stake? If so, how come on NXT AE people are trading more than 1 stake?
Or it is the question of morality that he was chasing sock puppet accounts and in fact he has created some?
I see the biggest problem in preaching one thing and doing the exact opposite
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Utopianfuture (REMBER THAT NAME!) listened to a request from the community: to have stakes tradable before release. So that any dumpers could cash out and any interested people could get in even after registrations closed.
He then gave the option for stakes be traded on the NXT AE, on MSC and on Counterparty. With a minimum of 100 people interested in any of the above listed before he'd enable trading. NXT AE was the winner.
The 1000 tokens were his estimate of how much would be needed to satisfy the communities' request. As of now 400 or so have been transferred so it seems he was ok with that estimate.
AGS could be listed in the same fashion on both Counterparty or the NXT Asset exchange. But asking I3 to allow that is probably like asking the Pope for permission to shoot a porn gig inside the Sistine Chapel.
I'll remember that name now...Luckily I bought some @18k NXT and sold @25k NXT two days afterwards...I don't think i will take this bet any time soon again...
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hello everyone,
just came across this thread and would like to just bring it back to life for a moment so i can let you guys know that nem is in the final stages of stake redemption, beta has been out and publicly tested for months, multisig will be ready for launch and if you have a stake you are not too late to claim(by claim i mean send in a nem address so you can receive your coins, the genesis block hasnt been launched yet). thousands already have claimed. drop by and see how things are going. :) we are still very much alive!
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hello everyone,
just came across this thread and would like to just bring it back to life for a moment so i can let you guys know that nem is in the final stages of stake redemption, beta has been out and publicly tested for months, multisig will be ready for launch and if you have a stake you are not too late to claim(by claim i mean send in a nem address so you can receive your coins, the genesis block hasnt been launched yet). thousands already have claimed. drop by and see how things are going. :) we are still very much alive!
have a link?
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i cant post external links.. could you post this for me?
wasnt sure what link you were looking for so stuck em all in lol
btt thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=654845.0
beta 0.4.39: https://forum.nemcoin.com/beta-launch-discussion/nem-beta-0-4-39/
api documentation(subject to change): https://forum.nemcoin.com/api-support/api-documentation/
for anyone who doesnt know about nem(also a good read for those who done know much): https://medium.com/@xtester/the-new-economy-movement-fb9bb67eb9fe
all the news letters: http://www.ournem.com/newsletters/
it was also announced recently that 4 of the largest altcoin exchanges have agreed to list nem on launch which include bter, bittrex, poloniex, and btc38. another announcement should be made soon.
anyway, just thought id bring people up to speed.. if you have a stake, please redeem asap.
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I can't remember if I posted on the NEM thread early enough to have a stake from posting or not, and now i can't find the thread!
how do I know if I have a stake?
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I can't remember if I posted on the NEM thread early enough to have a stake from posting or not, and now i can't find the thread!
how do I know if I have a stake?
Find the stakeholder spreadsheet in gdocs and search through it for your btt account.
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I can't remember if I posted on the NEM thread early enough to have a stake from posting or not, and now i can't find the thread!
how do I know if I have a stake?
Find the stakeholder spreadsheet in gdocs and search through it for your btt account.
hmm... the one on this thread doesn't seem to work: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=496112.0
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They are making it more difficult that it needed to be.. if you missed Phase I, then you might have missed out.. if you did Phase I hoop jump, then you need to jump Phase II, and perhaps some lesser amount for having cottoned on late.. or some confusion of that.
See: https://forum.nemcoin.com/nem-news-alerts/updated-redemption-guide/ for more. The old spreadsheets have given way to a confirmed list of those who've done what's needed.. but they fudged up, so a large number of original and Phase I holders haven't got to Phase II.
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They are making it more difficult that it needed to be.. if you missed Phase I, then you might have missed out.. if you did Phase I hoop jump, then you need to jump Phase II, and perhaps some lesser amount for having cottoned on late.. or some confusion of that.
See: https://forum.nemcoin.com/nem-news-alerts/updated-redemption-guide/ for more. The old spreadsheets have given way to a confirmed list of those who've done what's needed.. but they fudged up, so a large number of original and Phase I holders haven't got to Phase II.
If you need a PhD just to become involved or claim your stake, then it won't be any more successful than NXT.
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Realize that in this project the #1 guy was caught making numerous sock puppet accounts. His answer to that was to say he threw away the passwords to them. It is called "Faith of Burn".
Then #2 guy took care of stakes. Somehow he managed to give out 5-6 stakes for people who created accounts that had a slight misspelling. (Same security problem with our account names) He never caught this until a third party who had had their stake given away bought it to attention. Huh? Sketchy to say the least.
Everyone involved in the project has a BTT account from around the same time.
To this date they have never published a whitepaper about their consensus algorithm or what is better about it. I am not sure the developers are known. They have had plenty of time to do this. 1 shortish whitepaper isn't that difficult.
They played the game really well, but I can't see this coin going anywhere.
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I just want to grab my 2BTC :D
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Realize that in this project the #1 guy was caught making numerous sock puppet accounts. His answer to that was to say he threw away the passwords to them. It is called "Faith of Burn".
Then #2 guy took care of stakes. Somehow he managed to give out 5-6 stakes for people who created accounts that had a slight misspelling. (Same security problem with our account names) He never caught this until a third party who had had their stake given away bought it to attention. Huh? Sketchy to say the least.
Everyone involved in the project has a BTT account from around the same time.
To this date they have never published a whitepaper about their consensus algorithm or what is better about it. I am not sure the developers are known. They have had plenty of time to do this. 1 shortish whitepaper isn't that difficult.
They played the game really well, but I can't see this coin going anywhere.
you are correct about utopian and socks. however you have it sort of wrong. he was only caught with one account and admitted that he had others. it isnt very likely he would have been able to redeem them either as the second round of sock removals involved logging IP address and browser finger prints which he could not have known about as he was removed from all private boards/chats and was long gone by the time the second sock removal was implemented.
as for patmast3r, the #2 guy as you say, i know that you would have to take my word for it but that was a genuine mistake. if you think about it, if he really wanted to scam he could have just dumped the 100's of nemstakes he was in control of onto the market and run away with a hell of a lot more than 6 stakes worth. so it doesnt make much sense that he would scam 6 stakes when he could have stole a hell of a lot more.
The white paper has been put off because development of the software is far more important. in all honesty would it be better to launch with a whitepaper and shaky software or to put of the whitepaper and focus on launching with a heavily tested and optimised platform with some very powerful features like remote harvesting and the first ever blockchain based multisig implementation aswell as a new anti-spam feature which is working spectacularly as of now.
the anti-spam feature works like this:
It basicly works like this:
1) The cache is limited to 1000 transactions (slots).
2) If there are less than 120 transactions waiting in the cache any new transaction is accepted.
3) Otherwise it is calculated how many slots the originator of the transaction is allowed to occupy in the transaction cache.
If he has already reached his maximum, then the transaction is rejected.
This maximum is dependent in the fill level of the cache, the importance of the account and the transaction fee.
screen shots of the new multisig implementation can be seen here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=942352.0
remote harvesting is a remarkable feature:
first you need to understand there are two parts to the nem software. NIS(nem infrastructure software) and NCC(Nem Community Client). NCC connects to NIS and one or the other can be run remotely and connected to from another location. IE. NIS running on a server can be connected to by multiple instances of NCC.
The state of the art harvesting(forging) technology allows (multiple) users to connect to a (single) remote instance of the software and harvest using a cold storage account with out ever sending a private key or any sensitive data over the network, even the operator of the instance (of NIS) could be a known thief and the account you harvest on it with can not be compromised. combine this with multisig and you can lock down your coins in a cold storage multisig account and use that account to harvest on a thiefs NIS and your coins will be safe all while using them to harvest. and in the same way you can harvest safely on a thief's nis, you can also do transactions safely.
these features all out on beta currently and working perfectly and the network has held up to enormous pressure. recently we had a blockchain restart but the one that was just stopped had over 2.2 million transactions in the space of a few months and for around 2 days every block was over loaded ie. more than the max transactions per block were done causing a huge backlog of transactions. the network handled this easily. also, even though there were 2.2m transactions, (far more than have been done in NXT in over a year), NIS still downloads/scans the bocks much faster than nxt(i would compare to bitshares but i havnt used it). getting to this stage is with out a doubt more important than a white paper and i think most would agree.
in regards to your comment about what makes POI better, you are also right that few details have been released about it. But imo what is better about it is that instead of participants in the network being rewarded based on "how much" (how much mining power they have, how much money they have in the system) participants are rewarded based on "how well" they participate in the network. much like a web of trust, your "weight" is judged by how much you transact and with who. The essence of POS is not completely removed however. if no one in the network was to transact, it would act exactly the same as POS. your importance is weighted relative to other accounts too. ie. if no one else transacts except for 5 people in the network. those 5 people would essential absorb importance from those who do not transact. at least this is my understanding of it so there very well might be some errors in my understanding due to there being a lack of technical information released for PoI.
i cannot say that you are wrong in you last statement as that is your opinion and i wont argue with that. However, if we fail to "go anywhere" it will most certainly not be from a lack of technological advancement or a lack of interest from the community.
hope you dont mind me stopping in to fill in some details.
if any parties are interested you can test the beta here: https://forum.nemcoin.com/beta-launch-discussion/nem-beta-0-5-4/
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They are making it more difficult that it needed to be.. if you missed Phase I, then you might have missed out.. if you did Phase I hoop jump, then you need to jump Phase II, and perhaps some lesser amount for having cottoned on late.. or some confusion of that.
See: https://forum.nemcoin.com/nem-news-alerts/updated-redemption-guide/ for more. The old spreadsheets have given way to a confirmed list of those who've done what's needed.. but they fudged up, so a large number of original and Phase I holders haven't got to Phase II.
just to note, if you missed phase one to register the token you would have gotten in PM, you will be able to use that token to redeem your stake after launch. you wont have lost your stake if you still have your token.
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just to note, if you missed phase one to register the token you would have gotten in PM, you will be able to use that token to redeem your stake after launch. you wont have lost your stake if you still have your token.
Is there a launch date published already?
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just to note, if you missed phase one to register the token you would have gotten in PM, you will be able to use that token to redeem your stake after launch. you wont have lost your stake if you still have your token.
Is there a launch date published already?
no not yet. it was estimated that we will launch 3 weeks from release of multisig on testnet which came out on the 1st of feb i think, but conservatively i would say 1st to 3rd week in march due to there being a number of (mostly gui) bugs that need fixing. i cant see it being any later than march in any case.
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So we can expect a release of bts1.0, ethereum and NEM in the same month .. wow
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So we can expect a release of bts1.0, ethereum and NEM in the same month .. wow
if that doesnt scare the crap out of die hard bitcoiners, i dont know what will :D
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if that doesnt scare the crap out of die hard bitcoiners, i dont know what will :D
Most bitcoiners are hopelessly blinded by religious motives (TM) :)
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Realize that in this project the #1 guy was caught making numerous sock puppet accounts. His answer to that was to say he threw away the passwords to them. It is called "Faith of Burn".
Then #2 guy took care of stakes. Somehow he managed to give out 5-6 stakes for people who created accounts that had a slight misspelling. (Same security problem with our account names) He never caught this until a third party who had had their stake given away bought it to attention. Huh? Sketchy to say the least.
Everyone involved in the project has a BTT account from around the same time.
To this date they have never published a whitepaper about their consensus algorithm or what is better about it. I am not sure the developers are known. They have had plenty of time to do this. 1 shortish whitepaper isn't that difficult.
They played the game really well, but I can't see this coin going anywhere.
you are correct about utopian and socks. however you have it sort of wrong. he was only caught with one account and admitted that he had others. it isnt very likely he would have been able to redeem them either as the second round of sock removals involved logging IP address and browser finger prints which he could not have known about as he was removed from all private boards/chats and was long gone by the time the second sock removal was implemented.
I know someone who made 10 NEMstakes in one night and was able to redeem every single one of them. He used TOR and a phone but later thought it didn't matter as the NEM people didn't have IP info
as for patmast3r, the #2 guy as you say, i know that you would have to take my word for it but that was a genuine mistake. if you think about it, if he really wanted to scam he could have just dumped the 100's of nemstakes he was in control of onto the market and run away with a hell of a lot more than 6 stakes worth. so it doesnt make much sense that he would scam 6 stakes when he could have stole a hell of a lot more.
His mistake would be a hard one to do for 6 stakes. He had like 12 accounts every week to verify by name, not 100s. He should have caught one by the end of the 6 and subsequently been on the lookout. Scamming 100s of stakes would have crashed the market and ruined the whole project. I don't know why that would be the smart move
The white paper has been put off because development of the software is far more important. in all honesty would it be better to launch with a whitepaper and shaky software or to put of the whitepaper and focus on launching with a heavily tested and optimised platform with some very powerful features like remote harvesting and the first ever blockchain based multisig implementation aswell as a new anti-spam feature which is working spectacularly as of now.
All other serious crypto projects put out white-papers beforehand. It doesn't have to be perfect. As it is no one really know how POI is supposed to work or even critique it. The doge wallet lets you do some sort of multisig stuff. I find it hard to believe you are legitimately the first one to implement it ?
the anti-spam feature works like this:
It basicly works like this:
1) The cache is limited to 1000 transactions (slots).
2) If there are less than 120 transactions waiting in the cache any new transaction is accepted.
3) Otherwise it is calculated how many slots the originator of the transaction is allowed to occupy in the transaction cache.
If he has already reached his maximum, then the transaction is rejected.
This maximum is dependent in the fill level of the cache, the importance of the account and the transaction fee.
screen shots of the new multisig implementation can be seen here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=942352.0
remote harvesting is a remarkable feature:
first you need to understand there are two parts to the nem software. NIS(nem infrastructure software) and NCC(Nem Community Client). NCC connects to NIS and one or the other can be run remotely and connected to from another location. IE. NIS running on a server can be connected to by multiple instances of NCC.
The state of the art harvesting(forging) technology allows (multiple) users to connect to a (single) remote instance of the software and harvest using a cold storage account with out ever sending a private key or any sensitive data over the network, even the operator of the instance (of NIS) could be a known thief and the account you harvest on it with can not be compromised. combine this with multisig and you can lock down your coins in a cold storage multisig account and use that account to harvest on a thiefs NIS and your coins will be safe all while using them to harvest. and in the same way you can harvest safely on a thief's nis, you can also do transactions safely.
these features all out on beta currently and working perfectly and the network has held up to enormous pressure. recently we had a blockchain restart but the one that was just stopped had over 2.2 million transactions in the space of a few months and for around 2 days every block was over loaded ie. more than the max transactions per block were done causing a huge backlog of transactions. the network handled this easily. also, even though there were 2.2m transactions, (far more than have been done in NXT in over a year), NIS still downloads/scans the bocks much faster than nxt(i would compare to bitshares but i havnt used it). getting to this stage is with out a doubt more important than a white paper and i think most would agree.
White papers demonstrate real thought and let people criticize your design. It is a bit of a design document and I am not sure why you keep making excuses for it not being produced. To me that says the devs are not all that proud of how POI really works. Good job on handling all the transactions, that is impressive.
in regards to your comment about what makes POI better, you are also right that few details have been released about it. But imo what is better about it is that instead of participants in the network being rewarded based on "how much" (how much mining power they have, how much money they have in the system) participants are rewarded based on "how well" they participate in the network. much like a web of trust, your "weight" is judged by how much you transact and with who. The essence of POS is not completely removed however. if no one in the network was to transact, it would act exactly the same as POS. your importance is weighted relative to other accounts too. ie. if no one else transacts except for 5 people in the network. those 5 people would essential absorb importance from those who do not transact. at least this is my understanding of it so there very well might be some errors in my understanding due to there being a lack of technical information released for PoI.
i cannot say that you are wrong in you last statement as that is your opinion and i wont argue with that. However, if we fail to "go anywhere" it will most certainly not be from a lack of technological advancement or a lack of interest from the community.
hope you dont mind me stopping in to fill in some details.
if any parties are interested you can test the beta here: https://forum.nemcoin.com/beta-launch-discussion/nem-beta-0-5-4/
Feel free. I was once a big supporter of NEM but at some point you walk away after too many shenanigans. I'd never seen more discussion over logos in my life.
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Feel free. I was once a big supporter of NEM but at some point you walk away after too many shenanigans. I'd never seen more discussion over logos in my life.
It wasnt the dev team that was discussing that.. its was primarily the community. devs were busy coding and improving nem. sorry to hear you walked away. perhaps seeing the developments since then might sway you back. :)
for the record, that discussion did my head in too and i think many others. trolls didnt help by stirring things up with sock accounts either.
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incase any of you have got nemstake on AE, redemption for your nemstake will close on the 26th of this month. after that day, nemstake will be worthless as it will not longer be redeemed for real nem after that day. if you do not know the process to redeem, ask here and il post the process. :)
this deadline is only for people who have nemstake on the nxt AE. btt holders will still be able to claim.