BitShares Forum
Other => Graveyard => MemoryCoin => Topic started by: AdamBLevine on January 07, 2014, 07:14:23 pm
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How many MMC were given in the Genesis block to MMC addresses you control directly or indirectly? We don't care about how much you have now. Just how much you started with?
You have stated that if someone voted you out as CEO and did things you didn't like, you would quit as a developer.
How much would you pay someone, in whatever currency, to do your Job?
I'll write the answers out and you fill in the blank.
1. After block 1 and before block 2 of MMC I had coins.
2. If I had to hire someone to do my job, I would pay them per year.
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I've noticed a correlation between Newmine winning votes and price decreases.
The value recovers somewhat when useful candidates win the positions back, but not quite as much as the drop.
Looks like we've got some serious CMO contenders - hopefully an active CMO can help the market value of the coin.
So to translate this, it's not your fault, you didn't mean to do it (vote with 40k premined coins), you'll never do it again, and you're not willing to disclose how many MMC you gave yourself in the Genesis Block of memorycoin 2, or what a year of support from you for your project would cost.
I've asked literally four times and you have yet to do anything but quote yourself saying if you were voted out as CEO you would quit unless you decided it was really worth it.
Here it is one more time since you seem to keep losing track of my questions.
If the only price is a project you believe in, are you willing to put all your how about just 75% MMC into development bounties paid to other developers in exchange for a guarantee you'll be able to guide the coin as you see fit? Somehow I think the speculative upside has your attention too.
It would be great if you addressed the parts that actually matter instead of just responding to semantics.
Lets assume you spent 1 month of full time work adapting Protoshares (which you were paid to develop) to MemoryCoin. What do you think is a reasonable amount to pay you for that time in US dollar terms. What would be a compelling US dollar amount worth of pay be to convince you to give support to your project for say, a year?
and are you really comparing yourself to Satoshi with regards to holdings? He could easily answer this question, he did not give himself any advantage or number of Bitcoins in the Genesis block of Bitcoin. That is not true of MemoryCoin, and yes you gave some of those coins to other people but many of them went to you or addresses you control. To be clear, you are not willing to publicly share how many MemoryCoins you gave yourself in the Genesis Block of Memorycoin?
ouch..
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All these questions are answered here -
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2288.0
Try to stay on topic please Adam. I've responded to your questions already - please don't try to take every thread off topic because you're not getting what you want.
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Try to stay on topic please Adam. I've responded to your questions already - please don't try to take every thread off topic because you're not getting what you want.
1.: The title of this topic is: Adam B Levine's concers. So Adam's post could not be more ON topic.
2.: You have responded to Adam's questions, but that is something different than ANSWERING them.
3.: Adam is not getting what he wants because all he wants is answers from you.
4.: Can we please get a decent CEO on this coin that can say more than "it isn't my fault, it's them"
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No, Adam posted this on another topic. I split it so that we could collect all issues related to it in once place.
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Try to stay on topic please Adam. I've responded to your questions already - please don't try to take every thread off topic because you're not getting what you want.
In reading the thread that those quotes were from you didn't answer anything other than you would not dev for the coin if you were sacked unless you approved of the coins direction.
Are you willing to donate a large portion of you MMC2.0 for development bounties? and What do you think is a reasonable amount of pay to support your project for a year would be?
Those are still unanswered
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Imagine big banks saying ,"it wasn't me" back in 2008
Oh wait...
A cryptocurrency or similar technology should not have paid CxO officers that are paid in advance ESPECIALLY if officers had premined beforehand.
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Adam, I don't think you understand how this works. You mention people getting paid 1000s of bitcoins a year assuming a price of 0.2btc each but by that point the payout will be far lower. Instead of trying to be productive you just moan on the forums without making any serious proposals.
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Instead of trying to be productive you just moan on the forums without making any serious proposals.
a huge +1 on that.
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When I'm removed as CEO, as will happen sooner or later, I'll have to decide carefully whether its worth my while volunteering efforts in an emeritus role. It'll depend on the new CEO and team and whether they're leading in the right direction. That's the price - a project that I believe in.
Yes
Let's use the power of the vote. Let's use our voting power to fix the fiat monetary system.
Let's vote for Obama because we believe in change.
Let's vote for a Republican that will balance the budget and bring down debt like Bush did.
I think MMC takes innovation backwards rather than forward...
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I'm not asking how many MMC you have in your wallet. I'm asking what is the number of MMC that you granted yourself direct or indirect control of as codified in the Genesis block. There is only one right answer to this, and frankly if you're not willing to tell the users of your currency how many you gave yourself when you launched the thing how can you ever expect people to trust you? How about a percentage of the coins generated in the genesis block, what 40%? 50%?
As mentioned before, these remain unanswered
How much time did you spend converting Protoshares to Memorycoin? I assumed a month of full time work, but I would be happy if you would correct that to the real number. In exchange for that work you did, since you do not consider the value of the coins moving forward what is the US dollar amount you feel compensates the work you've done on Memorycoin to this point if you were voted out today as CEO and decided to quit. At what level of compensation would you feel "Well, that was a fair deal"
What would it cost in US dollar terms for the community to secure your support and development of your project for a year starting next month.
Since you have stated the only payoff you need is a project you believe in, would you be willing to devote 75% of your MMC holdings to the funding of Bounties that fulfill your vision of all that Memorycoin can be?
At this point, seems like you're more likely to quit than actually clear the air. Good news is you might have so many MMC you can't be fired this time :)
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Adam, I don't think you understand how this works. You mention people getting paid 1000s of bitcoins a year assuming a price of 0.2btc each but by that point the payout will be far lower. Instead of trying to be productive you just moan on the forums without making any serious proposals.
I provided a range with the pay at current prices relative to the pay at higher MMC prices. Point was, it's a pretty good job considering you don't have to do anything because there is no way to quality control the work before you've paid the applicant in advance quite well.
And I did not talk about that in this thread, please try to stay on topic. Here the questions are very clear - How many MMC did FreeTrade give himself in the Genesis block, how much is a month of his time working on a project that is close to his heart worth, and what would it cost for the community to secure his development services for a year. As has been discussed before, the last time he abandoned a coin, you know, MemoryCoin 1, it was after being ousted by coinholders and the coin then died. His stance about MemoryCoin 2 (thats the coin you've got now) is that he'll develop so long as he is the CEO and wants to. If at any point for any reason he stops believing in the project, he'll think about leaving.
If you're comfortable with that kind of situation this seems like the coin for you. Meanwhile, they are real questions that deserve real answers and I'm still waiting.
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Adam, I don't think you understand how this works. You mention people getting paid 1000s of bitcoins a year assuming a price of 0.2btc each but by that point the payout will be far lower. Instead of trying to be productive you just moan on the forums without making any serious proposals.
I provided a range with the pay at current prices relative to the pay at higher MMC prices. Point was, it's a pretty good job considering you don't have to do anything because there is no way to quality control the work before you've paid the applicant in advance quite well.
And I did not talk about that in this thread, please try to stay on topic. Here the questions are very clear - How many MMC did FreeTrade give himself in the Genesis block, how much is a month of his time working on a project that is close to his heart worth, and what would it cost for the community to secure his development services for a year. As has been discussed before, the last time he abandoned a coin, you know, MemoryCoin 1, it was after being ousted by coinholders and the coin then died. His stance about MemoryCoin 2 (thats the coin you've got now) is that he'll develop so long as he is the CEO and wants to. If at any point for any reason he stops believing in the project, he'll think about leaving.
If you're comfortable with that kind of situation this seems like the coin for you. Meanwhile, they are real questions that deserve real answers and I'm still waiting.
From what I have found by searching addresses freetrade has approx 80,000 MMC, not that unreasonable as far as I am concerned.
No applicants so far have elected just because of their promises, they have all done something already to deserve that position.
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Adam, I don't think you understand how this works. You mention people getting paid 1000s of bitcoins a year assuming a price of 0.2btc each but by that point the payout will be far lower. Instead of trying to be productive you just moan on the forums without making any serious proposals.
I provided a range with the pay at current prices relative to the pay at higher MMC prices. Point was, it's a pretty good job considering you don't have to do anything because there is no way to quality control the work before you've paid the applicant in advance quite well.
And I did not talk about that in this thread, please try to stay on topic. Here the questions are very clear - How many MMC did FreeTrade give himself in the Genesis block, how much is a month of his time working on a project that is close to his heart worth, and what would it cost for the community to secure his development services for a year. As has been discussed before, the last time he abandoned a coin, you know, MemoryCoin 1, it was after being ousted by coinholders and the coin then died. His stance about MemoryCoin 2 (thats the coin you've got now) is that he'll develop so long as he is the CEO and wants to. If at any point for any reason he stops believing in the project, he'll think about leaving.
If you're comfortable with that kind of situation this seems like the coin for you. Meanwhile, they are real questions that deserve real answers and I'm still waiting.
From what I have found by searching addresses freetrade has approx 80,000 MMC, not that unreasonable as far as I am concerned.
No applicants so far have elected just because of their promises, they have all done something already to deserve that position.
Only Freetrade can answer this question unfortunately because he's the one who built the Genesis Block and only he knows how many addresses he controls. Your speculation is as good as mine, which is not very good at all.
I'm not asking about the positions, I think it's very clear what I feel is important to know.
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So Freetrade, now that you cleaned out my posts from other threads and compiled them here, do you have any intention of answering?
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Would be interesting if this is also Freetrade:
The start of Memorycoin 2.0
eacc494ba5f29ebf4cf7dd0f2a3250893a80d49dbd8350a6301a2131466ac227 12-15-13 08:09:40
Mined Block Reward for
MBw4baArvAshpJtogWM4A39MBcrXoxkfAB 71933.37404660 MMC
bd278ecd20ded897fba48f54609a6d7b8959f195e6946cdac854771cdc2acfc6 01-07-14 02:32:00 today
From: MBw4baArvAshpJtogWM4A39MBcrXoxkfAB
To: MJ9bFhL4RihqCTnJjTKxUYMnwpGvhEYKfu 69933.3739466 MMC
MQ8R2zQEfgBsgLRES3ooyuKey4qqm4XiTb 2000 MMC
And about the falling price which started on 2nd January I think this is because of the big GPU mining rigs which sell the MMC and overstocking the market.
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And here a list of some other top scorer when Memory Coin 2.0 started:
12-15-13 08:09:40 MLdZXb6PTZ1Pz9iSsUF2UGtkTJ28Ek4GTS 82555.12961190 MMC
12-15-13 08:09:40 MVTEoEoXmYzFydRfg5uNJRewt9tZ329fAN 38644.12392340 MMC
12-15-13 08:09:40 MVTEoEo5LgYAMVh95oBBfGPj2eCDzkuJC3 34207.68138260 MMC
12-15-13 08:09:40 MVZEBcsue2Y2MBFPQ6Mru5uL8vZEAPiMcm 28930.49534570 MMC
12-15-13 08:09:40 MVF4kgdRuCQoFHxuy63Ses5F3QpfDNJvGy 11532.00000000 MMC
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Adam, I don't think you understand how this works. You mention people getting paid 1000s of bitcoins a year assuming a price of 0.2btc each but by that point the payout will be far lower. Instead of trying to be productive you just moan on the forums without making any serious proposals.
Says a guy in one of the elected paid positions.
Instead of trying to be productive you just moan on the forums without making any serious proposals.
a huge +1 on that.
Says another guy in one of the elected paid positions.
I'm not in an elected position?
And I have contributed to this coin, all you have done is reduced confidence and moaned.
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So Freetrade, now that you cleaned out my posts from other threads and compiled them here, do you have any intention of answering?
You're totally right - How many MMC were assigned to addresses you directly or indirectly control, in the genesis block? I believe you are the only one who can answer this and it seems like a vitally important transparency issue given this directly impacts voting and you've already shown that you've got no problem voting with a block of 40k because heck, didn't think it would be a conflict of interest to vote for yourself when you gave yourself coins for free!
That's been pointed out to above, acknowledged as a mistake and corrected. Its disappointing that you just repeat it without acknowledging the steps taken to correct it. As for specific balances, I'm not getting into that, because it would never end, and I'm entitled to the same privacy as any other shareholders. I suggest you track down satoshi and ask him the same question.
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Lets assume you spent 1 month of full time work adapting Protoshares (which you were paid to develop) to MemoryCoin. What do you think is a reasonable amount to pay you for that time in US dollar terms. What would be a compelling US dollar amount worth of pay be to convince you to give support to your project for say, a year?
Is this the other question you want answered? I don't understand it. Are you offering me a job? I don't want to work for you. Is MemoryCoin offering me a contract? It can't. I have a job for now - MemoryCoin CEO while the shareholders decide to keep me. I'm not looking for another position.
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So Freetrade, now that you cleaned out my posts from other threads and compiled them here, do you have any intention of answering?
You gave yourself hundreds of thousands of coins and you can't be bothered to develop without a constant stream of pay?
Again, don't believe everything you read in an internet forum. Sure I have coins from MC1 and the ProtoShares distribution, but it's not hundreds of thousands of coins - suggest you check your sources before repeating them.
You're totally right - How many MMC were assigned to addresses you directly or indirectly control, in the genesis block? I believe you are the only one who can answer this and it seems like a vitally important transparency issue given this directly impacts voting and you've already shown that you've got no problem voting with a block of 40k because heck, didn't think it would be a conflict of interest to vote for yourself when you gave yourself coins for free!
That's been pointed out to above, acknowledged as a mistake and corrected. Its disappointing that you just repeat it without acknowledging the steps taken to correct it. As for specific balances, I'm not getting into that, because it would never end, and I'm entitled to the same privacy as any other shareholders. I suggest you track down satoshi and ask him the same question.
Lets assume you spent 1 month of full time work adapting Protoshares (which you were paid to develop) to MemoryCoin. What do you think is a reasonable amount to pay you for that time in US dollar terms. What would be a compelling US dollar amount worth of pay be to convince you to give support to your project for say, a year?
Is this the other question you want answered? I don't understand it. Are you offering me a job? I don't want to work for you. Is MemoryCoin offering me a contract? It can't. I have a job for now - MemoryCoin CEO while the shareholders decide to keep me. I'm not looking for another position.
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It doesn't matter what I say, this topic is never going to go away - I'm just not engaging with it anymore.
As for you NewMine, I think you're ideologically opposed to what we're trying to do here, and I don't trust you at all. You'll be back with another name in no time at all.
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It doesn't matter what I say, this topic is never going to go away - I'm just not engaging with it anymore.
As for you NewMine, I think you're ideologically opposed to what we're trying to do here, and I don't trust you at all. You'll be back with another name in no time at all.
It truly does matter what you say because you're the CEO and as CEO you can affect confidence in your coin. Every time you respond you attempt to shift the focus away from you thinking people will forget about the questions being asked. It seems extremely shady to continually dodge legitimate questions. Hopefully you sack up and answer at some point.
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Insider holdings of stocks are made public. While I am not suggesting that cryptocurrency is subject to these rules there is a reason they exist.
http://www.sec.gov/investor/pubs/insidertradingguide.htm
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It doesn't matter what I say, this topic is never going to go away - I'm just not engaging with it anymore.
As for you NewMine, I think you're ideologically opposed to what we're trying to do here, and I don't trust you at all. You'll be back with another name in no time at all.
Thanks for the answer!
NewMine, you are not good for the currency, I know you do not realise this but none of the tools we have already would be here if not for the positions.
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I've only found myself interested in MemoryCoin for a few weeks now, but this lack of transparency is hugely concerning. I can respect FreeTrade's inclination to not want to feed trolls, but anyone new to this situation, reading only this thread, will immediately get the impression that he/she is trying to hide something, and/or doesn't have the best interest of the community in mind. The pending questions are valid, and no trollish behaviour is on display here.
A project unwilling to respond to valid concerns in an open and transparent way (regardless of whatever personal issues exist between parties) is extremely challenging to invest in.
If the "CEO" is unwilling to be transparent and answer these questions, he/she should, at the very least, re-iterate the values he/she DOES represent and stand up for. "It doesn't matter what I say" only works for someone who doesn't currently hold the most important position in the organization. It definitely matters what the CEO says, anytime he/she says anything. These threads are archives, "memories" if you will, for all to see and read.
Oh, and if this project wants to toss about these fancy corporate titles for things, we should probably avoid using ones like where this thread is headed: "PR disaster"
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Send 1 satoshi to MVTEceo1111111111111111111111TvNrt to fire FreeTrade as CEO and advertise the position as available.
I must admit, it is a strange role to be CEO of a distributed autonomous corporation, and not one I'm entirely comfortable with. I'm wondering if I'm a liability in that position now. I'm more comfortable with a technical role, but stepped aside from that to bring more talented devs on board.
Anyway, I think we're doing great - we've got a great dev and support team, and lots of competition for the CMO position.
Whatever happens with the CEO role, I plan to continue working as a dev and where-ever else I can be useful so long as we're working to further the MemoryCoin Manifesto.
These are FreeTrades own words (in another thread).
He was voted out in blocks 5780 and 5800 but returned as CEO in block 5820 when MQmmL6MDuRZVkXd9t3Zy6hcfhPBrTKETjM voted for him.
I encourage everybody who agrees with Adam and the fact that FreeTrade is hiding something, to send 1 satoshi (0.00000001 MMC) to MVTEceo1111111111111111111111TvNrt and vote FreeTrade out as CEO and 'advertise the position as available' (his own words).
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Ze Germanz strike again. Miner turn-off! Somebody set us up the bomb!
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I agree that FreeTrade should answer these sensitive questions honestly. As a CEO who wants MMC to be successful, he has the direct responsibility to clear all of the reasonable doubts .
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It's unfortunate FreeTrade would rather let this unknown pre-mine hang over the head of his currency than demonstrate a little transparency.
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This question will never and can never be answered to your satisfaction.
No matter what any one person says about themselves, no matter what proof they give...there will always be someone who doesn't trust them and/or ways that person can still "trick" others...it's the nature of the beast we're dealing with in virtual currencies and a pseudonymous society...
And, does it really matter? What if any premine was already sold? What if the buyer then transferred them, that address re-sold, etc, until they were actually distributed among individuals? Whatever - assume it's exactly what you wanted. You have already indicated you do not trust and/or do not believe any answer you receive...you'll have to convince yourself instead of attacking another person whom you've already told yourself that you will never believe...
And, it takes time and effort to convince people...during which others would say that labor should be spent elsewhere, etc...
I think instead, we should focus on supporting development of tools that others in the community can use to answer similar questions that are certain to arise in the future.
All we know for certain is that FreeTrade has claimed ownership of his MVTEceo address...work backwards from that address and see what the blockchain says, etc...
Post a bounty to develop such tools.
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(sorry for my english)
Stop trolling, is not good for the coin.
Use Google or go here, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=370806.0
look in the first post, at "Premine" look this: "~6.2% - MemoryCoin Beta
All balances from the original MemoryCoin as at block 8820 are transferred into the new blockchain at Block 1. MemoryCoin 2.0 has 10 million coins so there is a significant dilution. This dilution does not apply to MCF supporters. You can import your balance by using your old wallet with the new blockchain."
bye
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There are two questions, they're simple and highly relevant to the value proposition of people buying at current high prices and future higher prices if the MMC holding community has its way
The Questions to FreeTrade, CEO and Creator of Memorycoin 1 and Memorycoin 2:
How many MMC were given in the Genesis block to MMC addresses you control directly or indirectly? We don't care about how much you have now. Just how much you started with?
You have stated that if someone voted you out as CEO and did things you didn't like, you would quit as a developer.
How much would you pay someone, in whatever currency, to do your Job?
I'll write the answers out and you fill in the blank.
1. After block 1 and before block 2 of MMC I had coins.
2. If I had to hire someone to do my job, I would pay them per year.
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While everyone got an opinion on this topic, I think we won't get more information by expressing it all the time.
Deleted the last 3 posts (FT 2 : 1 AL if you're interested :P ) and closing.
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Opening again.
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Opening again.
FreeTrade I have stood up for you this far, and I will still regardless of your response.
Do you think it would be better to just reveal your current holdings and justify why you have so many or do you think that would just feed the trolls?
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You want to know how much MMC coin freetrade hold on block 1, it's easy :
- He is holding the memorycoin 1.0 he mined (converted to MMC on block one) as everybody else !
This is usually private information and we generally didn't expect people to disclose it even coin dev.
- He is holding the memorycoin 1.0 he won from grant (converted to MMC on block one) as everybody who won grant !
This is public information, and you can find it in the blockchain from memorycoin 1.0
- He is holding the memorycoin 1.0 he won from MemoryCoinFondation grant (converted to MMC on block one) !
This is public information, and he should use it to fund some bounty for MMC, since he was just the manager of MemoryCoinFondation.
- He is holding Protoshare he mined (converted 10% to MMC on block one) as everybody else !
This is usually private information and we generally didn't expect people to disclose it even coin dev.
So you have your answers, make search for the ones that are public, or ask Freetrade if you are too lazy and he is willing to help someone that is spreading FUD.
But don't expect the private info to be released, even thou you could grasp some on the blockchain if you take some time instead of trolling.
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You want to know how much MMC coin freetrade hold on block 1, it's easy :
- He is holding the memorycoin 1.0 he mined (converted to MMC on block one) as everybody else !
This is usually private information and we generally didn't expect people to disclose it even coin dev.
- He is holding the memorycoin 1.0 he won from grant (converted to MMC on block one) as everybody who won grant !
This is public information, and you can find it in the blockchain from memorycoin 1.0
- He is holding the memorycoin 1.0 he won from MemoryCoinFondation grant (converted to MMC on block one) !
This is public information, and he should use it to fund some bounty for MMC, since he was just the manager of MemoryCoinFondation.
- He is holding Protoshare he mined (converted 10% to MMC on block one) as everybody else !
This is usually private information and we generally didn't expect people to disclose it even coin dev.
So you have your answers, make search for the ones that are public, or ask Freetrade if you are too lazy and he is willing to help someone that is spreading FUD.
But don't expect the private info to be released, even thou you could grasp some on the blockchain if you take some time instead of trolling.
Um, there's the problem, people have asked FreeTrade multiple times and he refuses to answer
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And he made clear he won't. Deal with it.
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You want to know how much MMC coin freetrade hold on block 1, it's easy :
- He is holding the memorycoin 1.0 he mined (converted to MMC on block one) as everybody else !
This is usually private information and we generally didn't expect people to disclose it even coin dev.
- He is holding the memorycoin 1.0 he won from grant (converted to MMC on block one) as everybody who won grant !
This is public information, and you can find it in the blockchain from memorycoin 1.0
- He is holding the memorycoin 1.0 he won from MemoryCoinFondation grant (converted to MMC on block one) !
This is public information, and he should use it to fund some bounty for MMC, since he was just the manager of MemoryCoinFondation.
- He is holding Protoshare he mined (converted 10% to MMC on block one) as everybody else !
This is usually private information and we generally didn't expect people to disclose it even coin dev.
So you have your answers, make search for the ones that are public, or ask Freetrade if you are too lazy and he is willing to help someone that is spreading FUD.
But don't expect the private info to be released, even thou you could grasp some on the blockchain if you take some time instead of trolling.
Um, there's the problem, people have asked FreeTrade multiple times and he refuses to answer
Which perfectly makes sense since you are asking for the private info mixed with public one.
So don't be lazy and go get the info, and report back to us. Otherwise, well stfu...
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if(nHeight<7){
return (200000*COIN); // 6% premine 1 million coins as float for operations (you can ask for further explanation if you do not trust me) and the rest i will divide between Bounties and my own pocket
extract from MMC 2.0. Does that answer the question? Now can you just let this thread and others like it DIE!!
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The only thing bm says in this posting is that FT wasn't interested in continuing his work for 3I, because he had other plans. And that he couldn't change his mind by offering a paycheck.
He promised MemoryCoin beta participants to continue working on it, and he fulfilled that promise.
Now about the numbers:
If he was holding 80k coins from start, that's about 10% of the premine. While his vote counted a lot (as it should in the beginning imo), it never was like he could decide alone.
You tried hard convincing the community to vote him out. You failed. And not because he is holding too many coins, but because a lot of people seem not to mind, what tells me they feel like he's doing a good job.
Accept your defeat, leave us alone. It's getting absurd.
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The only thing bm says in this posting is that FT wasn't interested in continuing his work for 3I, because he had other plans. And that he couldn't change his mind by offering a paycheck.
He promised MemoryCoin beta participants to continue working on it, and he fulfilled that promise.
Now about the numbers:
If he was holding 80k coins from start, that's about 10% of the premine. While his vote counted a lot (as it should in the beginning imo), it never was like he could decide alone.
You tried hard convincing the community to vote him out. You failed. And not because he is holding too many coins, but because a lot of people seem not to mind, what tells me they feel like he's doing a good job.
Accept your defeat, leave us alone. It's getting absurd.
Well there is the whole issue of 40k coins from the MCF that he was using to vote for himself before we pointed that out.
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He did that, i think it's his right to do it, and it didn't change anything regarding the outcomes.
And with that the issue is done for me. Lost enough time on it I could have used for much more reasonable tasks.
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We all were defeated from block 1. This is what you don't get.
No, NewMine. You are defeted. Because we all voted for current CEO, and we all think it's dumb to vote the founder out of what he created.
If you disagree, you still can win. System still works great. There are over 2M coins out there, go buy some coins on bter and vote for the dumb couse only you beleive in.
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MMC is based upon elected paid positions and being GPU resistant. This is what was to separate it from other alts.
MMC elected positions is still unique as an altcoin. Many positions have changed hands through voting, and the amount of work that has been put into this coin in such a small amount of time has been astounding. All of this work would not have happened without the incentive of paid positions. 1% of the coin for each position does seem high. .5% or .25% would be more reasonable. If you're getting 575+ coins a day for your position, you can still make off decently selling right away. Now, hopefully, the officers realize the potential of the coin, and realize that the current price of $0.25 is not much compared to the $1-2 per coin in the near future. However, a few may be willing to simply sell right away. Freetrade being CEO is fine. He created the coin, why shouldn't he in one of the officers to promote the coin?
About being GPU resistant, sure that surprised me. However, it's not that crazy, it terms of advantage. Even in the current state, my 7950 gets 13 hpm (overclocked 1050/1450), while my 3770k i7 gets 3.3 hpm (not overclocked). That's about a 4x increase using GPU. However, a 7950 is also more expensive to buy, and uses over double the power. Plus, yvg1900's optimized mmcminer is rumored to increase a CPU's hpm by 3x (thus a 3770k would give you 10hpm). The beta version of this miner is already out in private testing. This will equalize CPU/GPU mining, until a more optimized GPU comes out.
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He did that, i think it's his right to do it, and it didn't change anything regarding the outcomes.
And with that the issue is done for me. Lost enough time on it I could have used for much more reasonable tasks.
http://mmcvotes.com/block/5440
M9rJudKWdiE4dQd2K6DD9bLtkviKwnhNZG
MHodpHe3qVMzGKtgcrjwRQdvUTEyaXfHPE
both voted for you, newmine would've won otherwise.
There are a number of other votes where the deciding support is from the MCF funds. It's obvious why you're not opposed though.
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MMC is based upon elected paid positions and being GPU resistant. This is what was to separate it from other alts.
MMC elected positions is still unique as an altcoin. Many positions have changed hands through voting, and the amount of work that has been put into this coin in such a small amount of time has been astounding. All of this work would not have happened without the incentive of paid positions. 1% of the coin for each position does seem high. .5% or .25% would be more reasonable. If you're getting 575+ coins a day for your position, you can still make off decently selling right away. Now, hopefully, the officers realize the potential of the coin, and realize that the current price of $0.25 is not much compared to the $1-2 per coin in the near future. However, a few may be willing to simply sell right away. Freetrade being CEO is fine. He created the coin, why shouldn't he in one of the officers to promote the coin?
About being GPU resistant, sure that surprised me. However, it's not that crazy, it terms of advantage. Even in the current state, my 7950 gets 13 hpm (overclocked 1050/1450), while my 3770k i7 gets 3.3 hpm (not overclocked). That's about a 4x increase using GPU. However, a 7950 is also more expensive to buy, and uses over double the power. Plus, yvg1900's optimized mmcminer is rumored to increase a CPU's hpm by 3x (thus a 3770k would give you 10hpm). The beta version of this miner is already out in private testing. This will equalize CPU/GPU mining, until a more optimized GPU comes out.
the point being made here is that the voting is basically rigged right now since FreeTrade still decides it with his own funds, and with funds from the MCF foundation that were generated from the start of the coin. He, and several of the officers here would have lost their seats already if it wasn't for his backing from the foundation
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He, and several of the officers here would have lost their seats already if it wasn't for his backing from the foundation
Lost to whom? As far as I can see, the current officers have contributed greatly to MMC. Officers have also lost their seats when they've failed to due their job and a better candidate emerged. You can argue about voter participation (7% of MMC voting is pretty abyssal), but I wouldn't say it's rigged. If even 30% of all MMC holders voted, Freetrade's vote would count for little. Hell, with only 7% voters participating, my vote counts for 10% of the elected candidates total votes. That's huge. The issue is more about getting more people to vote. However, I don't think that would change much, if anything, since the current officers are doing quite well.
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You want to know how much MMC coin freetrade hold on block 1, it's easy :
- He is holding the memorycoin 1.0 he mined (converted to MMC on block one) as everybody else !
This is usually private information and we generally didn't expect people to disclose it even coin dev.
- He is holding the memorycoin 1.0 he won from grant (converted to MMC on block one) as everybody who won grant !
This is public information, and you can find it in the blockchain from memorycoin 1.0
- He is holding the memorycoin 1.0 he won from MemoryCoinFondation grant (converted to MMC on block one) !
This is public information, and he should use it to fund some bounty for MMC, since he was just the manager of MemoryCoinFondation.
- He is holding Protoshare he mined (converted 10% to MMC on block one) as everybody else !
This is usually private information and we generally didn't expect people to disclose it even coin dev.
So you have your answers, make search for the ones that are public, or ask Freetrade if you are too lazy and he is willing to help someone that is spreading FUD.
But don't expect the private info to be released, even thou you could grasp some on the blockchain if you take some time instead of trolling.
I wasn't going to post on this issue anymore, but GD, you guys just don't seem to see the forest through the trees.
MMC is based upon elected paid positions and being GPU resistant. This is what was to separate it from other alts.
GPU resistant failed, but that is not the issue I have.
The elections being based on the number of MMC is where I take issue.
FreeTrade has given himself a lot of coin from the pre-mine. MCF was to get the only non diluted cut of the pre-mine. MCF seems to have ~40k coins. If you look at the genesis block you will see 2 addresses that received ~80k coins each. Since no PTS holder could've been holding 10x 80k coins as it was not possible, it is safe to say those coins went to memorycoin 1 contributors. FreeTrade being the creator of memorycoin 1 most likely would grant himself the largest share of the contributors. 80,000 coins is more than 10% of the pre-mine alone. If FreeTrade holds this coin it compromised the integrity of the elections from day 1. These holdings made FreeTrades election undisputed and guaranteed. Guaranteed until the GPU aspect failed and some large players stepped in. Had FreeTrades plan worked, the coin would have held off the GPU miners and FreeTrade's seat would have never been challenged as a CPU coin. This all the while the 2 positions he held kept paying more and more coin. (Yes, he only holds one now, most likely due to my original concerns and him trying to distance himself from the issue).
I think in the interest of the coin FreeTrade should only divulge what coin he was awarded from block 1. Or he should take his coin and step out of the position and not use his votes for a replacement.
This way you will all know what the elections are really about: are they for the Coin or are they for Freetrade's wallet?
Side note-
I thought it was quite interesting that bytemaster came forward seeming to distance himself from FreeTrade. Maybe bad blood, nonetheless interesting though.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2047.msg24598#msg24598
I'm not going to comment on the rest, as I don't thing 80,000 constitutes a big deal but GPU resistance did not fail. 4x performance increase (power wise) is VERY resistant. You can still mine and beat power costs on a CPU
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Well there is the whole issue of 40k coins from the MCF that he was using to vote for himself before we pointed that out.
[...]
both voted for you, newmine would've won otherwise.
There are a number of other votes where the deciding support is from the MCF funds. It's obvious why you're not opposed though.
You never mentioned that you regard the MCF funds voting for other officers to be a problem too. The discussion was about him voting for himself.
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Well there is the whole issue of 40k coins from the MCF that he was using to vote for himself before we pointed that out.
[...]
both voted for you, newmine would've won otherwise.
There are a number of other votes where the deciding support is from the MCF funds. It's obvious why you're not opposed though.
You never mentioned that you regard the MCF funds voting for other officers to be a problem too. The discussion was about him voting for himself.
The people he voted for were chosen well.
For example at the beginning one large holder had voted himself into CHA and CMO. He used the funds to remove them from positions and replace with SeansOutpost (me) and Belltown.
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Jeeez what a soap story this coin... It's a shame this happens on the bitsharestalk board and it only hurts the good reputation of Invictus. If this coin was honest all this drama never happened!!
Sorry to say but this coin is doomed and can never be used for a honest voting system after all what happened... What goes around comes around!? Maybe launch GreedCoin where MMC2 will be included in the genesis block... I think this name fits a whole bunch off people involved with MMC
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Jeeez what a soap story this coin... It's a shame this happens on the bitsharestalk board and it only hurts the good reputation of Invictus. If this coin was honest all this drama never happened!!
Sorry to say but this coin is doomed and can never be used for a honest voting system after all what happened... What goes around comes around!? Maybe launch GreedCoin where MMC2 will be included in the genesis block... I think this name fits a whole bunch off people involved with MMC
I had nothing to do with 1.0, protoshares and was not included in the genesis block either?
I think it has potential, I believe freetrade will disperse the coins he gave himself to those who create things for the coin.
For example he gave 5000 coins to the people who created the optimized miner
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Jeeez what a soap story this coin... It's a shame this happens on the bitsharestalk board and it only hurts the good reputation of Invictus. If this coin was honest all this drama never happened!!
Sorry to say but this coin is doomed and can never be used for a honest voting system after all what happened... What goes around comes around!? Maybe launch GreedCoin where MMC2 will be included in the genesis block... I think this name fits a whole bunch off people involved with MMC
I had nothing to do with 1.0, protoshares and was not included in the genesis block either?
I think it has potential, I believe freetrade will disperse the coins he gave himself to those who create things for the coin.
For example he gave 5000 coins to the people who created the optimized miner
The idea behind the coin is fantastic, really! But look at it like this... you life in a country where some dictator says; we have a democracy and people are free to vote!! But behind the scenes there is one absolute power that overrules all votes and only organizes elections to give a fake feeling to the people that they actually have a choice... There are still many countries in the world where this happens and if i get it right this is the opposite of why crypto's are invented. Makes sense right?
In the first place it was a big mistake to gave the votes power by how many coins they are backed. I think this was perfectly thought of before it was implemented.... How can you create a fair democratic coin if only the rich have power?
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The idea behind the coin is fantastic, really! But look at it like this... you life in a country where some dictator says; we have a democracy and people are free to vote!! But behind the scenes there is one absolute power that overrules all votes and only organizes elections to give a fake feeling to the people that they actually have a choice... There are still many countries in the world where this happens
you mean like in the USA ?
Where the money pay for add on TV and only rich people get elected !
and if i get it right this is the opposite of why crypto's are invented. Makes sense right?
In the first place it was a big mistake to gave the votes power by how many coins they are backed. I think this was perfectly thought of before it was implemented.... How can you create a fair democratic coin if only the rich have power?
You misunderstand the technical reality/difficulty here.
There is no way to enforce 1 man 1 vote on cryptocurrency, unless you use a central certifying authority.
Other ways are to be found yet. (Web of trust is a possibility but could be cheated)
So the only way right now is one coin one vote. And it's like any other shareholder voting in regular corporation (one stock one vote).
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It's unfortunate FreeTrade would rather let this unknown pre-mine hang over the head of his currency than demonstrate a little transparency.
You should write an article or do a podcast on this. Indeed it is very unfortunate. This is a ponzi scheme. Freetrade will most likely dump his coins once there is a price increase.
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There seems to be alot of allegations and attacks agains memorycoin and freetrade going on in bitcointalk, especially regarding a massive pre-mine freetrade owns. I hope these allegations can be refuted.
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A lot of fud is spread at the moment, but I'm optimistic that the facts speak for themselves and the haters will give up soon.
The market was crashed by someone selling about 25k coins at once a few days ago. Plus, regarding profitability we're still ahead of scrypt coins for GPU miners, and they tend to sell fast. Price will recover soon, and with the fast decline of the block reward we can expect a bright future :)
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A lot of fud is spread at the moment, but I'm optimistic that the facts speak for themselves and the haters will give up soon.
The market was crashed by someone selling about 25k coins at once a few days ago. Plus, regarding profitability we're still ahead of scrypt coins for GPU miners, and they tend to sell fast. Price will recover soon, and with the fast decline of the block reward we can expect a bright future :)
I hadn't taken miners into account, but looking at market volume vs coins mined per day they are fairly similar
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There's seems to be a really bad vibe with MemoryCoin2.
Any interesting features are overshadowed by rumors of corruption. And the air isn't cleared.
Bad community = no interest for me. I can go back to XPM or PTS.
Best luck!
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There's seems to be a really bad vibe with MemoryCoin2.
Any interesting features are overshadowed by rumors of corruption. And the air isn't cleared.
Bad community = no interest for me. I can go back to XPM or PTS.
Best luck!
XPM and ProtoShares are very good, innovative currencies, but neither of them went smoothly initially.
We are working on it, we have a few people who post a lot of negative things but largely the community here is outstanding. In just a few short weeks we have more tools available than even litecoin, it is rather unfair for you to say the community "has a bad vibe". I would say we are actually incredibly productive
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https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2288.msg27422#msg27422 (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2288.msg27422#msg27422)
Guess that answers your questions?
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Just wanted to give you guys the point of view of a potential investor...
On the positive side, MMC2 has the attributes of what I think the Bitcoin Beating coin will have.
1. They need central bank proof mining. (They may already control Bitcoin network.)
2. Central Bank proof developers. (Most core devs are already compromised.)
Your coin addresses this. It has a commitment to keeping mining distributed and you have a voting system that allows suspected compromised individuals to be voted out.
I was really excited, it's exactly what the successor of Bitcoin needs, but of course then we get to the pre-mine scandal.
The fact that you gave yourself 160k coins is not a big deal, the fact that this lets you influence the voting in the beginning is actually a good thing. (Personally I would have had the voting system only kick in after 6 months so it gives the founding team the ability & incentive to develop the coin and prove themselves, and only if we feel they're compromised, eg. by joining circle, or they are not up to task then they would be voted off.)
Unfortunately what is a big deal is that you thought you were entitled to some priivacy regarding the pre-mine!? Pre-mining etc. is very controversial anyway and if it is done it needs to be as clear and transparent as possible. The way you avoided, deflected and justified not answering the questions is SO disappointing. Even the tongue in cheek/humorous way you finally addressed it was wrong and paragraphs like this are still very dubious...
fork all the balances from the old coin, but dilute anyone who wasn't voting, or just voting to share the grants out amongst the winning voters. So the fork rewarded people who were really engaged and trying to make the project work, but still kept balances for everyone.
People in crypto are literally waiting for a coin that has the ability to stay true to the vision Satoshi created, I believe that coin will look a lot like MemoryCoin, but I can't see anything of substance being built on such a shaky foundation.
At the moment my conclusion is that MemoryCoin has managed to snatch defeat from the Jaws of victory.
It's a pity because if it wasn't for this I would have bought a boat-load.
But good luck, you never know. If you can re-lay the foundation you might still be able to build something, but I doubt it.
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I guess you're talking about the interview -
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2288.msg27422#msg27422
I think good luck with a coin that doesn't hold any elections for six months. They'll call you worse names even than they called me.
Truth is, it's difficult to get a coin like this bootstrapped . . . it might be a bit easier now that everyone understands a little better how a coin like this is supposed to work, but I'd guess not much. MemoryCoin doesn't have shaky foundations at all - we're laying down a very positive culture for growth here.
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I am a bit late to the whole premine controversy but can someone just sum it up for me. Did freetrade only get 160 000 MMC and thats causing all this fuss ?
Look at the shit thats called Ripple with a few billion effective premine and central authority and backed by google, it is doing reasonably well and everyone is losing their fucking toys over 160 000 / $32000 worth of premine coins ?
If all this chaos is only because of voting power I guess there is some reason for it but still overcoming the 160k vote is fairly easy combining just a few big miners coin votes.
Please correct me if I am wrong or inform me of the actual total premine in case it is much higher than that.
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I am a bit late to the whole premine controversy but can someone just sum it up for me. Did freetrade only get 160 000 MMC and thats causing all this fuss ?
Look at the shit thats called Ripple with a few billion effective premine and central authority and backed by google, it is doing reasonably well and everyone is losing their fucking toys over 160 000 / $32000 worth of premine coins ?
If all this chaos is only because of voting power I guess there is some reason for it but still overcoming the 160k vote is fairly easy combining just a few big miners coin votes.
Please correct me if I am wrong or inform me of the actual total premine in case it is much higher than that.
No, you're not wrong.
It started with a campaign which stated that the cXo get paid too many coins (the campaign wanted to distribute those coins between the people voting for it). When they realized they don't get enough support they started whining about FreeTrade having too many coins and that they can't win because of that.
The whole premine has been transparent from the start, just not the amount FreeTrade got. He regarded this as a private issue. And while most of the active members of the community agreed with him on that, some others didn't. Finally he posted the "interview" https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2288.0 to stop the fuss.
In the end it's not really been a scandal in my opinion, but just a few greedy jealous people making lots of noise.
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Yes, please back up your accusation with some facts.
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Alot of noise indeed.
Personally I think this could all be taken care by simply splitting all the premine coins he allocated to himself across all network generated addresses equally. Sure some coins would go to non-used wallets and effectively end up in /dev/null but this way he would distance himself completely from what seems to be a big issue and causing unneccesary friction.
This would be a very small price to pay to resolve this matter for the better of Memorycoin and also show great faith from Freetrade and his believe in Memorycoin's future.
After doing this, he could also justify receiving payments for positions he is holding right now and no one can claim that he shouldnt be compensated right now due to the early premine coins he allocated to himself.
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Personally I think this could all be taken care by simply splitting all the premine coins he allocated to himself across all network generated addresses equally. Sure some coins would go to non-used wallets and effectively end up in /dev/null but this way he would distance himself completely from what seems to be a big issue and causing unneccesary friction.
I'm not sure what the best solution is but something needs to be corrected. You guys in it can talk your book as much you like. Personally I'd like to have 50 000 of something than 160 000 of nothing.
I did give you kind of a positive shout on the Bitcoin forums..
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=415138.80
The successor to Bitcoin needs 2 things...
1. Central Bank proof mining (Central banks may already control >51% of Bitcoin hashing power.)
2. Central Bank proof developers (See Mike joining circle to sit with Goldman Sachs.)
The closest coin I've come across so far is memorycoin 2.0 they have a constant commitment to keeping mining decentralised and voting system that allows compromised developers to be replaced.
Unfortunately there's a bit of pre-mine scandal re: that coin, so personally I can't see the vision of Satoshi being transferred to something built on a questionable foundation, but I do think the coin that takes over from Bitcoin will have a lot of those features.
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Personally I think this could all be taken care by simply splitting all the premine coins he allocated to himself across all network generated addresses equally. Sure some coins would go to non-used wallets and effectively end up in /dev/null but this way he would distance himself completely from what seems to be a big issue and causing unneccesary friction.
This is in essence what I was trying to do with the paid positions. Split them up amongst the people who voted. I also did this with the few elections we won.
In the end, it doesn't really matter. In a year from now the same people will be in the same positions having done very little to make the coin prosper all while the price continues to fall and buyers continue to disappear.
It was/is a good concept, just poorly executed. With out the pre-mine, this would've been a successful coin. Memorycoin 3.0 anyone. I am predicting it here first.
What exactly is stopping Freetrade to take this route. I would love to hear why he would be opposed to this other than keeping the coins for exactly the reason that everyone seems upset about.
Seems pretty easy solution. If he believe in the coin then redistribute the coins away from himself which would solve this mess just about immediately. I see no valid reason to be opposed to this.
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Please tell me why you think freetrade should disperse those coins? Or even destroy them? I understand there is general dislike of pre-mines but please give me detailed explanations why he should give up his coinage. I ask so that i may attempt to understand your position.
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MemoryCoin is compromised by it's inventor and lead (and only) developer. Panic! :P
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I think you guys are ignoring the answers that have already been provided -
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2288.msg27422#msg27422
There was nothing stopping you from participating in MemoryCoin 1 - people who did risked their time and effort and were rewarded for that. That's part of the culture we have here - developers and contributors are rewarded for their effort.
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I think you guys are ignoring the answers that have already been provided -
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2288.msg27422#msg27422
There was nothing stopping you from participating in MemoryCoin 1 - people who did risked their time and effort and were rewarded for that. That's part of the culture we have here - developers and contributors are rewarded for their effort.
Perfect answer. Not your fault people missed out. Developers aren't free workhorses.
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I think you guys are ignoring the answers that have already been provided -
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2288.msg27422#msg27422
There was nothing stopping you from participating in MemoryCoin 1 - people who did risked their time and effort and were rewarded for that. That's part of the culture we have here - developers and contributors are rewarded for their effort.
Perfect answer. Not your fault people missed out. Developers aren't free workhorses.
I have no issue if he outright earned the coins but whats been said is that he simply gave himself the coins and later when he got caught made it public.
This is the problem that people are having with it. I do believe he deserves some form of payment for the time he puts in but what I think people see in what he did is similar to someone working at the Reserve bank and simply printing money for himself because he apparently deserves it and its his right as employer there to do it.
There is proper ways of compensating hard work and from what I read this really doesn't seem like the proper way at all.
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I think you guys are ignoring the answers that have already been provided -
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2288.msg27422#msg27422
There was nothing stopping you from participating in MemoryCoin 1 - people who did risked their time and effort and were rewarded for that. That's part of the culture we have here - developers and contributors are rewarded for their effort.
Perfect answer. Not your fault people missed out. Developers aren't free workhorses.
I have no issue if he outright earned the coins but whats been said is that he simply gave himself the coins and later when he got caught made it public.
This is the problem that people are having with it. I do believe he deserves some form of payment for the time he puts in but what I think people see in what he did is similar to someone working at the Reserve bank and simply printing money for himself because he apparently deserves it and its his right as employer there to do it.
There is proper ways of compensating hard work and from what I read this really doesn't seem like the proper way at all.
I have helped develop coins, fix them and even have my own 0.001% of users ever really help the dev, most is just complaints. Mine was 0% premined yet people expected me to shell out my own funds to make their investments worth it.
I FULLY SUPPORT DEVS ALLOCATING THEMSELVES A GOOD PORTION OF THE OVERALL. Let's not even begin to talk about how unique his ideas are.
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I think you guys are ignoring the answers that have already been provided -
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2288.msg27422#msg27422
There was nothing stopping you from participating in MemoryCoin 1 - people who did risked their time and effort and were rewarded for that. That's part of the culture we have here - developers and contributors are rewarded for their effort.
Perfect answer. Not your fault people missed out. Developers aren't free workhorses.
I have no issue if he outright earned the coins but whats been said is that he simply gave himself the coins and later when he got caught made it public.
This is the problem that people are having with it. I do believe he deserves some form of payment for the time he puts in but what I think people see in what he did is similar to someone working at the Reserve bank and simply printing money for himself because he apparently deserves it and its his right as employer there to do it.
There is proper ways of compensating hard work and from what I read this really doesn't seem like the proper way at all.
I have helped develop coins, fix them and even have my own 0.001% of users ever really help the dev, most is just complaints. Mine was 0% premined yet people expected me to shell out my own funds to make their investments worth it.
I FULLY SUPPORT DEVS ALLOCATING THEMSELVES A GOOD PORTION OF THE OVERALL. Let's not even begin to talk about how unique his ideas are.
Ok lets say I agree with you.
Why wouldn't he just make it public from the start if he truely believe what he is doing is just deserved. The problem here is that it seems he tried to hide it and once uncovered he only acknowledged it.
Personally I would care less if he made this public from the very start so people could agree/disagree with it right there and then without investing their time and own money in this venture.
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I have no issue if he outright earned the coins but whats been said is that he simply gave himself the coins and later when he got caught made it public.
The problem is that you shouldn't listen to "what's been said" and check the facts.
He didn't gave himself the coin out of thin air.
He got the coin from his mining of memorycoin 1.0 as every other miner did. (and Protoshare to, for more detail read my post : https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2124.msg26182#msg26182 (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2124.msg26182#msg26182))
And this was described in the coin announcement in plain sight !
All the FUD around this is done buy a few people who want to grab the officer salary for themselves without contributing to the development of the coin, their last take was to ask FreeTrade to give his coin to them/everybody as a blessing for the coin...
All the FUD has done is drop the price off MMC very low. Let's take that on the positive side and say it will allow redistribution of the coin, and allow some clever investor to come in at a cheap price. But this has to stop as all the info is out right now and not much to discuss about any more.
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All this was discussed in the open before the launch of the coin -
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=267522.msg3555889#msg3555889
Everyone was free to participate in MC1 and the discussion leading up to MC2.
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I have no issue if he outright earned the coins but whats been said is that he simply gave himself the coins and later when he got caught made it public.
The problem is that you shouldn't listen to "what's been said" and check the facts.
He didn't gave himself the coin out of thin air.
He got the coin from his mining of memorycoin 1.0 as every other miner did. (and Protoshare to, for more detail read my post : https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2124.msg26182#msg26182 (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2124.msg26182#msg26182))
And this was described in the coin announcement in plain sight !
All the FUD around this is done buy a few people who want to grab the officer salary for themselves without contributing to the development of the coin, their last take was to ask FreeTrade to give his coin to them/everybody as a blessing for the coin...
All the FUD has done is drop the price off MMC very low. Let's take that on the positive side and say it will allow redistribution of the coin, and allow some clever investor to come in at a cheap price. But this has to stop as all the info is out right now and not much to discuss about any more.
Thanks this makes things alot clearer.
I was really under the impression he effectively premined the coins so yes you are right extreme FUD spread about this and thats the way its being portrayed.
My questions in this thread was to catch up with the real story in order to figure out for myself where I stand with regards to MMC and you cleared things up for me without having to go back through 100000 of threads just to come to the same conclusion.
Freetrade didn't just receive free coins, thats all I needed to know.
Thanks
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To the person who said dev's get far less than they deserve - For the work and risk they take, absolutely. Also I believe a truly decentralised crypto-currency will really help mankind. FreeTrade has put some ideas in place that move Satoshi's vision in that direction, I honestly think FreeTrade can look in the mirror at night and be proud of the work he's done and is doing.
That doesn't change the problem that now exists, I'm only trying to bring it to your attention because I believe FreeTrade deserves more than what the situation he's put himself in will end up giving him.
Last attempt -
I don't care who got what and why in the pre-mine. I only care how it was perceived by the market.
Was it 'perceived' as transparent and fair? Because if it wasn't, I know new investors will stay well clear.
The memorycoin swtich over looks like it was done selectively
dilute anyone who wasn't voting, or just voting to share the grants out amongst the winning voters. So the fork rewarded people who were really engaged and trying to make the project work, but still kept balances for everyone.
You also did not disclose your pre-mine stake for ages, you tried to avoid & deflect it.
Unfortunately, my conclusion is, no matter what responses you give now/try to justify it, I'm pretty certain the MemoryCoin2.0 launch is perceived by the market as having an unfair and un-transparent pre-mine.
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If you don't understand how human psychology works, it's hard to help here, but I'll try.
1. Humans would rather lose money than support something where they feel someone has got an unfair/un-transparent share even if they deserve it! (This is why being completely equitable and transparent if there's a pre-mine is so important.)
2. Case in point - You are a human too and you would also rather lose money then take a reduced share, even though the reduced share is FAR more valuable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-ougCMz7Nk
You're now living in the above Game-show.
Investors feels like you've taken A, when you should have taken B and you've been deceptive about it.
You feel like you've taken B when you actually deserved A and now people are trying to ask you to take C.
Unfortunately the result of this game-show is often the same, everybodies share ends up being worth 0.
(To Newmine, you repeatedly say the same argument, you come across quite trollish.)
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All this was discussed in the open before the launch of the coin -
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=267522.msg3555889#msg3555889
Everyone was free to participate in MC1 and the discussion leading up to MC2.
If you own a time machine, yes everyone would have been free to participate. Fortunately or unfortunately, not everyone was around for Memorycoin 1. Had I not been part of PTS, I would not be here now.
That's beside the point. Another deflection.
Anyone's absence to memorycoin 1 and discussions is no excuse for what you did during memorycoin 2. I don't remember reading that you planned on giving yourself over 20% or the entire pre-mine and then announce you will hold 2 positions that are voted in based on coin counts per address. Yes, the voting we knew about, but the advantage you held over everyone, we did not know about. And we had to pry it out if you a month into the coin.
How did you figure contribution worth?
Why did you give multiple addresses your earned coin? Why not give all your earned coin to one address? I can think of only one reason for this, you were trying to hide how much coin you were giving yourself. Go ahead and correct me if I am wrong.
We could go on and on.
lol, please use that argument with BTC please, if you can make it work there i'll take you seriously.