BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: nethyb on April 03, 2015, 11:13:52 am
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You may have noticed that minebitshares has referred the most new users to bitshares for the 2nd month in a row - March.
(http://content.screencast.com/users/nethyb/folders/Default/media/55ff844f-e61d-49f9-b0a5-2f4551f6ffe0/2015-04-06_13-11-31.png)
This data is via the bitshares referral system (https://faucet.bitshares.org/refscoreboard (https://faucet.bitshares.org/refscoreboard)) and identifies new users that have downloaded the bitshares client and used the faucet to register their account. (MineBitShares has provided the most referrals since the system started :))
I believe that this validates the marketing effectiveness of minebitshares to attract new people to Bitshares and introducing them to BitAssets by mining bitUSD.
I can’t take all the credit, as well as the utility that minebitshares delivers, bytemaster has been contributing his own personal funds over the last two months, $50 bitUSD per day, to payout as bonuses to miners and help attract even more miners to ensure the multi-pool is one of the most, if not thee most profitable.
Now the bad (but possibly good) news - After 9 months with minebitshares, I'm no longer able to dedicate my spare time or personal funds to continue to develop and run the pool.
But instead of just shutting the pool down, I have a bold proposal.
I think it’s time we do this properly at scale - create some waves in the crypto world and have the focus on bitshares and bitassets giving people something else to think about rather that than ethereum and dash.
Here’s it is…
● I donate the minebitshares pool / source code and supporting assets to the bitshares community.
● BitShares community members come forward to create an east and west pool management team.
i.e. a new Chinese language version of the pool is created for the Chinese community to manage locally (pays in bitCNY) as well as the current pool. They east/west pools can back each other up.
● Multiple 100% delegates are used to top up the pool mining earnings to ensure the pools ARE the most profitable. (At least 3 per team would be required initially providing $2,300 p/month, as BTS price rises this could be reduced to 2 delegates)
● Pool fees/delegate funds and/or referral/affiliate earnings are used to pay pool infrastructure costs and to compensate the pool dev/management teams.
● I enable the teams over a period of a month to show them how the pool code works and daily pool management operations. I'm not leaving bitshares so will still be around if advice is needed after that.
● The teams continue development of the pool, integrating services such as http://metaexchange.info for payouts in any bitasset - including BitSilver/BitGold and referral integration with http://cryptosmith.info to mine real Silver and Gold.
● We all watch BitShares get the due attention from the crypto world through massive exposure of mining profitability and being able to mine physical gold and silver! = new users = improved bitAsset liquidity = > market cap ;-) :D
If you believe this / or a variant of this is worth doing, then please comment and show your support for this plan by voting to have the minebitshares-reloaded 100% delegate in to the the top 101 before Sun 12th April - it’s currently position 138 - but needs at least another 160M votes.
If minebitshares-reloaded is voted in by then, and we have community members who want to run the pools, I’ll keep everything running for the next month while I help enable them and transition the delegates / pools etc.
If it’s not voted in by then, I’ll announce to the pool users that the pool will be shutting down the following week - i.e. 19th April.
Let the community know if you’d like to put yourself forward as the new east or west pool devs/managers.
I’ve made this a poll, so those thinking of putting themselves forward as part of the east/west pool teams can gauge the community interest and support before committing themselves.
I'll ask btswildpig if he can translate and post in the Chinese community thread.
cheers, nethyb.
If you need to find out more about minebitshares, the delegate proposals and pool profitability check out these threads and sites…
delegate: minebitshares-reloaded http://bitsharesblocks.com/delegate/info?name=minebitshares-reloaded (http://bitsharesblocks.com/delegate/info?name=minebitshares-reloaded)
delegate proposal - https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=14887.0 (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=14887.0)
MineBitShares - FAQ - https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=14973.0 (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=14973.0)
Pool Profitability - http://poolpicker.eu (http://poolpicker.eu)
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Thank you for your time nethyb, much appreciated. Hope minebitshares will live on!
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Thank you for your time nethyb, much appreciated. Hope minebitshares will live on!
+5%
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This should be moved to the general discussion section to attract more attention.
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Thanks. I know you have beening give your passion.
i think this will not go long, just gather money and put it there. Because it does not create value but price speculation to support bts. Meaning of money is credit store and liquidity. Bts need more credit and liquidy. Money need to be used. Though some people may not agree and afraid money lose.
Can some one do market making with this money. A trade bot can earn money from btc, bts and other crypto trading in different market?
Edit:
I agree with the moonstone team that UIA is a good solution of lacking liquidity.
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I think this is a fantastic project and have enjoyed mining this pool for a long time. +5%
I have an interest in taking over this project actually.. I think it could be a good fit for the bunker data center.
I'd be happy to work with an eastern counterpart, but if none step up thats ok.. we can grow our way out there. :)
Am I recalling correctly that there were plans to support sha-256 mining as well? Or is there some challenge to this preventing that?
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voted
but still 36 positions left.
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I think this is a fantastic project and have enjoyed mining this pool for a long time. +5%
I have an interest in taking over this project actually.. I think it could be a good fit for the bunker data center.
I'd be happy to work with an eastern counterpart, but if none step up thats ok.. we can grow our way out there. :)
Am I recalling correctly that there were plans to support sha-256 mining as well? Or is there some challenge to this preventing that?
Bunker mining sounds great - and your VPS facilities will work well for a 'west' operation... +5%
I'll PM you with some details so you can ask a lot of questions etc...
Ohh, and adding SHA-256 support to the pool is trivial - add your SHA-256 coins and enable the profit-switching port - But your time to manage the pool goes up by 50% to support 3 algo's rather than 2 ;D
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I would like to bring in updated affiliate stats. (your screenshot seems outdated by 2 months)
Out of all the testing I have did, I came to the conclusion that creating fancy funnels and paying for traffic turned out to be very expensive at the stage of the game. It's too much education that most people don't want to go through. But in mining, they have an incentive to create an account and maybe use bitusd to store their value.
His chart is up to date just toggled for last month. I agree with the conclusion, brute force ain't going to cut it, at least not before a stupid simple 3-step install and beautiful GUI is out. The operation outlined here is huge though. It would be great to have some proper marketing analysis before we get 4 100% delegates on this thing. How many miners are there? Could we do surveys to see what they think?
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How much would you need from delegate?
As mentioned above...
● Multiple 100% delegates are used to top up the pool mining earnings to ensure the pools ARE the most profitable. (At least 3 per team would be required initially providing $2,300 p/month, as BTS price rises this could be reduced to 2 delegates)
So whoever takes on running the pool, would need three 100% delegates at todays prices...
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I would like to bring in updated affiliate stats. (your screenshot seems outdated by 2 months)
Out of all the testing I have did, I came to the conclusion that creating fancy funnels and paying for traffic turned out to be very expensive at the stage of the game. It's too much education that most people don't want to go through. But in mining, they have an incentive to create an account and maybe use bitusd to store their value.
His chart is up to date just toggled for last month. I agree with the conclusion, brute force ain't going to cut it, at least not before a stupid simple 3-step install and beautiful GUI is out. The operation outlined here is huge though. It would be great to have some proper marketing analysis before we get 4 100% delegates on this thing. How many miners are there? Could we do surveys to see what they think?
I done some quick research and analysis a while ago in the older delegate threads...
"Note : I've done some research on estimating the 4000 users and 40+BTC. I believe that by removing the pool fee and now your bonus, ensuring minebitshares is the most profitable multi-pool for miners there is no reason why the pool could not attract at least 2,000 users from multipool.us and/or coinking.io and generate 40BTC daily in BitAsset payouts. It would be very reasonable to assume these 2000 users would at least tell one of their mining buddies about the pool/BitShares/BitAssets etc."
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hang in there buddy.
there may be something going to start help you out soon and bring the mining game to a new level.
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I'm ready to see this get ramped up to industrial strength!
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Excellent proposal +5%
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Mark my words...people being able to mine Real Gold and Silver straight to their danged doorstep is the biggest thing that has come to BitShares. In fact an operation like this if done well and sustained (like coinintellect did) would be so earth-shattering that we could really pull off a huge rally that would easily set the stage for a future #2 climb...and who knows after big names get a whiff of this.
In fact, I think this proposal would be a guaranteed win if instead of just using a total of 3 delegates for each side, we use even more (at least for the first couple months). Maybe even have 3-4 delegates set aside for every bitAsset to ensure they are all stupidly profitable to mine.
There is only one thing miners care about---profitability. And once they have their real Gold and Silver, they are unlikely to sell it for Bitcoin. What's more...Shanghai's PM Exchange at this link (http://www.kitco.com/news/2014-05-27/China-Looking-To-Make-Shanghai-Gold-Exchange-International.html) coming online and the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB) is getting even U.S. Allies to sign on and far more to read up on here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Infrastructure_Investment_Bank), we are looking for one hell of a brushfire we could be setting worldwide. We currently have plenty of 100% delegate positions to make them foam at the mouth...so let's make them rabid with desire for bitAssets--but Gold and Silver are going to be money again people. Dang. We are watching the end game imho. If you see the players on these lists (Germany namely at present) and the current applicants (even Israel is on it!), Crypto-mining real gold and silver gets very enticing.
And mining real Gold and PM's to your doorstep is about as sexy as it gets (especially if we anonymize transactions somehow).
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Is it possible to make it so mining Gold and Silver is actually cheaper than purchasing it with fiat?
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Is it possible to make it so mining Gold and Silver is actually cheaper than purchasing it with fiat?
You could if you subsidized it with say delegate pay.
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I admit that mining real gold and silver sounds pretty interesting. It would definitely give us some free marketing by appearing on a few headlines and articles. +5%
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Is it possible to make it so mining Gold and Silver is actually cheaper than purchasing it with fiat?
You could if you subsidized it with say delegate pay.
And also if there was an affiliate relationship between minebitshares and cryptosmith.info, say through a referral discount, or maybe even through a coupon
An idea I've just though of... Minebitshares could also issue a minebitshares bitSilver/Gold type UIA to miners along with their bitSilver/Gold payouts... cryptosmith.info could then accept it as a form of coupon providing a discount.
Cryptosmith.info could even be the issuer - so they have trust in control and distribution.
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+5% Well done on your good work :)
Getting people to use BitAssets as a byproduct of doing something else is a great way to spread them initially. Miners are also one of the few target markets that understand crypto & as the results have so far been good it seems worth taking it to the next level.
The marketing angle of potentially mining real gold with some type of cryptosmith relationship also sounds like marketing 'gold'
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The marketing angle of potentially mining real gold with some type of cryptosmith relationship also sounds like marketing 'gold'
Couldn't agree more +5%
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+5% Well done on your good work :)
Getting people to use BitAssets as a byproduct of doing something else is a great way to spread them initially. Miners are also one of the few target markets that understand crypto & as the results have so far been good it seems worth taking it to the next level.
The marketing angle of potentially mining real gold with some type of cryptosmith relationship also sounds like marketing 'gold'
See empirical? Things will organically happen...and some of them have a real chance of shining :)
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This is a very important tread. MineBitShares has been the most successful marketing and will still be our best card to attract new users that ACTUALLY USE OUR PLATFORM.
Also, with the delegates subsidizing the platform, the miners will soon realize that their bonus goes up as BTS price goes up. :)
What our efforts have taught us is that the amount of education needed for a new users to understand what we do makes it very expensive to convert traffic into users.
Stay tuned, I will be posting a tread about my commitment to BitSharesMining later today.
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That for April - VOTE people!
http://content.screencast.com/users/RenaudGagne9/folders/Jing/media/00a6ec67-d148-4d2b-a1a3-60af4bb8eccb/2015-04-06_0908.png
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Will vote - can the core devs please step in as well?
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I admit that mining real gold and silver sounds pretty interesting. It would definitely give us some free marketing by appearing on a few headlines and articles. +5%
That will be all over cryptonews website once we release this news. :-)
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This really needs a big push from the whole community to approve this minebitshares-reloaded delegate!
I would also like to reiterate how important it is to start a "Minners Chat" hangout on mumble.
This will accomplish a few different things...
1) To my knowledge this has never been offered, so we'll be the first to offer this format, which will of course get featured on bitcointalk thread.
2) this will connect miners closer to Bitshares while allowing us an opportunity to clear any fud and misperceptions. Which (in theory) they'll back us up on bitcointalk and other avenues to shine a better light on our community and Bitshares project.
3) Will give us an opportunity showcase our DEX features and assets of Bitshares
And I can think of many many more
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VOTE FOR MINEBITSHARES-RELOADED IF YOU LOVE IT TOO...
(http://i61.tinypic.com/10dcyur.jpg)
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the ability to mine bitGOLD could be really be the success... secret sauce!
(http://thumb7.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/1069403/154799195/stock-vector-gold-miners-154799195.jpg)
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the ability to mine bitGOLD could be really be the success... secret sauce!
(http://thumb7.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/1069403/154799195/stock-vector-gold-miners-154799195.jpg)
You won't believe what we got cooking in the background. Stay tuned (and vote for minebitshares-reloaded)
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I admit that mining real gold and silver sounds pretty interesting. It would definitely give us some free marketing by appearing on a few headlines and articles. +5%
That will be all over cryptonews website once we release this news. :-)
Mining real gold while having my ass on a confy chair and eating toasts, living the fat life. Do we really need to say more? That's a pretty badass slogan.
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This is very cool.
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Up to 132, getting there!
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We need to do a hangout about this.
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+5%
Our mediocre mining pool is our best hope.... I believe!
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+5%
Our mediocre mining pool is our best hope.... I believe!
Lol. Well played!
But give some ideas that might be better?
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+5%
Our mediocre mining pool is our best hope.... I believe!
you almost got me ....
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blatantly bumping this. It is worth getting people signed on for this initiative imho and so I am asking people to consider voting for the delegate. It is worth trying.
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Voted. Bumped.
Extremely excited for this to come to fruition. We have an awesome community - let's get this done!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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How would this necessarily increase demand and therefore liquidity in Bitgold? If Cyptosmith is immediately exchange into physical-- are you keeping the bitgold?
If this grows into a larger scale- this would seperate our product offering from bitgold.com and btireserve.
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How would this necessarily increase demand and therefore liquidity in Bitgold? If Cyptosmith is immediately exchange into physical-- are you keeping the bitgold?
If this grows into a larger scale- this would seperate our product offering from bitgold.com and btireserve.
It creates an organic use for all bitAssets including bitgold. But of course over time people who buy real gold with bitAssets will also become more comfortable converting a portion of their physical gold instead to bitgold and other BitAssets because they will get interest and will not have to pay for physical storage.
It will become another, more fair way to hedge.
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How would this necessarily increase demand and therefore liquidity in Bitgold? If Cyptosmith is immediately exchange into physical-- are you keeping the bitgold?
If this grows into a larger scale- this would seperate our product offering from bitgold.com and btireserve.
It creates an organic use for all bitAssets including bitgold. But of course over time people who buy real gold with bitAssets will also become more comfortable converting a portion of their physical gold instead to bitgold and other BitAssets because they will get interest and will not have to pay for physical storage.
It will become another, more fair way to hedge.
This is essentially a physical offramp and leaks money from the system. This needs to be discussed more since the velocity of money leaving the system via physical assets may not be give immediate benefits to us in the short-term. At worst it cancels out (or takes value out of the system if we are subsidizing with delegate pay). Unless the mining pool says: 50% mined with given as bitgold and the other 50% is given as physical gold.
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This is essentially a physical offramp and leaks money from the system. This needs to be discussed more since the velocity of money leaving the system via physical assets may not be give immediate benefits to us in the short-term. At worst it cancels out (or takes value out of the system if we are subsidizing with delegate pay). Unless the mining pool says: 50% mined with given as bitgold and the other 50% is given as physical gold.
Your right Bitcoinfan, by doing a quick 'follow the money' analysis (to also show others), the maximum 'value out' of the systems (20% in this case, but like to be smaller with large pool volumes) would be limited to the value of the delegate bonus . Miners and/or even 'cryptosmith' would likely keep some of their earnings as BitAssets, so this may be reduced further.
This small %wise outflow, may have minimal impact compared to the utility of the mined value providing 200%+ liquidity in the BitAssets systems and having people actually find out the usefulness of BitShares and bitAssets = growth in marketcap.
Miners Mine 1BTC worth of altcoins Mining POW Coins
Poll Sells altocoins to value of 1 BTC Sell pressure on POW coins
Pool Buys 250 bitUSD using 1BTC Provides Liquidity to MetaExchange etc
Pool Buys 50 bitUSD using BTS delegate pay for daily bnous Provides Liquidity to Internal/Exxternal bitUSD exchange
Pool Pays Out 300 bitUSD to miners Happy Miners
Miners Use 300 bitUSD/BitGold to buy PM's or BTC Supports CryptoSmith.info sales and MetaExchange liquidity
Cryptosmith Sells BitGold to buy New Stock Provides Liquidity to MetaExchange etc
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will the bonus to miner stop at some point ?
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will the bonus to miner stop at some point ?
No. They are a core value proposition of the pool and is what keeps miners coming back - profit.
If anything, based on the new delegate funding of pool bonuses, the BitAsset value of the bonus pool will rise as BTS price/market cap rises.
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This is a marketing campaign that we can measure precisely. In of its self, it doesn't need to be profitable to be successful. But if grows the user base and drives liquidity for system as a whole it will be a net benefit to entire system.
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will the bonus to miner stop at some point ?
The subsidies are there to compensate until the pool gets big enough to turn a profit and maintain a #1 position as the most profitable pool on our way there. It's the only pool powered by dpos so we can do things most people can't.
Really when it comes down to it, the goal is to increase the market cap and liquidity by having more people moving money in our system.
Once bitsharesmining gets to a point where the added benefits are marginal compared the the marketcap than the operation should stop being subsidized.
Later, when BitShares grow enough of it's marketcap and doesn't value the added liquidity provided by the pool then it will be a good time to realocate those funds to a better purpose.
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This is a marketing campaign that we can measure precisely. In of its self, it doesn't need to be profitable to be successful. But if grows the user base and drives liquidity for system as a whole it will be a net benefit to entire system.
^^ This.. and.. its a catch 22 for pool mining because profit increases only occur after the pool gets bigger. There are also opportunities to optimize our mining algo... also note that the more liquidity and volume that comes into BitShares from this operation.. the higher the market cap will go... miners will likely want to place some of their funds into assets for holding... and the message.. 'mine for gold' becomes ours.
There are just so many benefits to this... the goal of course to operate with the understanding that we can eventually reduce or remove the delegate... for now though.. it can provide the seed money needed to overcome the catch 22 situation that exists in pool mining.
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Re: offramp... That's all true, but that's where conveying a proper context to miners about the benefits of holding some bitAssets in the BitShares system. For example, keep reminding them that....
1) Their money is in safe keeping, since BitShares DEX can't be shut down or seized. This fact alone should ease them into wanting to stay.
2) Only 10sec transfer times, so they can bail to something different if need be, or last resort... quickly transfer out into Cryptosmith if need be. ie, quicker exit strategy.
3) If they keep and hold their bitAssets within BitShares, then they're now collecting Yield with their holdings (2-3%). IMO, I think this fact will keep the bigger players in, since they have the more to benefit with yield collection than some of the smaller guys. Time will tell?!
Outside of this, once Cryptosmith adds the ability for people to send them gold (which we can hope is soon!) and convert to a bitAsset. Then obviously we'll all have our first, true On and Off ramp. Super Excited!!
I know this may seem like common sense to most of us, but I'd bet majority of miners out there today don't have a clue to even consider using BitShares in the way we are proposing.
I used to be a very active miner myself and trying to squeeze the most profit/benefits from your machines is an everyday practice. If we get the word out effectively, then the pool will naturally gain major buzz, attention and growth.
On top of that, we're getting the Bitshares client used by people that will finally get hands on experience, bypassing all the FUD other alt communities throw out there about BitShares and really finding out what it's all about. :P
All positive things should follow this endeavor!!!
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will the bonus to miner stop at some point ?
No. They are a core value proposition of the pool and is what keeps miners coming back - profit.
If anything, based on the new delegate funding of pool bonuses, the BitAsset value of the bonus pool will rise as BTS price/market cap rises.
What actually pays the bonus may change though I.e. Referall/affiliate fees from the likes of meta exchange / cryptosmith may help pay the bonus in future, reducing reliance on delegate fees