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Here's some blockchain analysis I did:TL;DR - Stan, Synapticad, Cason, and an unnamed "admin retainer" reinvested over 20 BTC of their compensation.
Quote from: tonyk on June 15, 2014, 12:42:46 amQuote from: bytemaster on June 14, 2014, 11:28:44 pmIf not I will hammer them until I get what I want to see.... --------------------------------Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else. These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.lolled. <3
Quote from: bytemaster on June 14, 2014, 11:28:44 pmIf not I will hammer them until I get what I want to see.... --------------------------------Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else. These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.
If not I will hammer them until I get what I want to see.... --------------------------------Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else. These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.
Quote from: bytemaster on June 14, 2014, 11:28:44 pmIf not I will hammer them until I get what I want to see.... <3
If not I will hammer them until I get what I want to see....
Cognitive biases are a *****.(I don't have a way with words..)
Even when new evidence refutes a hypothesis, we often keep the feelings associated with the initial hypothesis, leading to rationalization of new evidence to fit a similar hypothesis.
Quote from: AdamBLevine on June 14, 2014, 06:21:30 pmQuote from: toast on June 14, 2014, 06:01:11 pmQuote- they don't give us the same oportunity ...What does this mean? We're not getting any advantage, we are all investing personal income. You mean BTS trust should pay you also?Well, employment payments deals and negotiations are non-public, so we have no way of knowing there isn't a contractual obligation to devote some % of pay above the real salary to cycling funds back through. If you want people to be vested in your ecosystem in a way where they can't leave, Angelshares do that well. I'm not suggesting this is being done, but that it's a plausible explanation for the rather heavy re-investment. That person is mostly competing against themselves, which is not an entirely rational strategy.We have no contractual obligations regarding AGS recycling. I do know that Dan N, Arlen and Brian and supporting AGS.
Quote from: toast on June 14, 2014, 06:01:11 pmQuote- they don't give us the same oportunity ...What does this mean? We're not getting any advantage, we are all investing personal income. You mean BTS trust should pay you also?Well, employment payments deals and negotiations are non-public, so we have no way of knowing there isn't a contractual obligation to devote some % of pay above the real salary to cycling funds back through. If you want people to be vested in your ecosystem in a way where they can't leave, Angelshares do that well. I'm not suggesting this is being done, but that it's a plausible explanation for the rather heavy re-investment. That person is mostly competing against themselves, which is not an entirely rational strategy.
Quote- they don't give us the same oportunity ...What does this mean? We're not getting any advantage, we are all investing personal income. You mean BTS trust should pay you also?
- they don't give us the same oportunity ...
Quote from: AdamBLevine on June 11, 2014, 04:11:00 amWho is Hypertas, and why were they given 134,000USD worth of bitcoin at current rate?Because this person or company is managing payroll by the looks of it. Not looking like anything problematic so far.
Who is Hypertas, and why were they given 134,000USD worth of bitcoin at current rate?
Quote from: NewMine on June 14, 2014, 05:16:09 amDid I read this right?Hyperatas is a payroll company liquidating AGS BTC donations through someone, not an exchange, who is turning around and donating them back to AGS?Right, except the "turning around and donating them back" happens after the "paid out of BTS trust" happens - in other words, employees (and subcontractors and bountees) are re-investing their *personal* income.edit: actually I think "liquidating" might not be the right word to describe "trading BTC for labor", so answer in that case would be "no"
Did I read this right?Hyperatas is a payroll company liquidating AGS BTC donations through someone, not an exchange, who is turning around and donating them back to AGS?
Quote from: cass on June 11, 2014, 10:15:01 pmQuote from: tonyk on June 11, 2014, 10:11:38 pmQuote from: cass on June 11, 2014, 10:04:16 pmQuote from: tonyk on June 11, 2014, 08:30:29 pmУ меня есть новости для вас, о тех голосов в вашей голове, это не бог говорит с вамиenglish pleaseEvery word that I labor to write is placed where it is for a specific reason.I do not expect all such words to be equally useful to every reader.But all words are there because I specifically wish to communicate something to someone.He who has ears to hear, let him hear.Wow, na gut wenn Ihr meint so kommunizieren zu müssen, dann macht das, aber dann bitte ohne mich!Ist ehrlich gesagt nicht wirklich konstruktiv so zu handeln. Naja ... klinke mich dann hier mal aus ... viel Spass und weiter so ... keine Zeit dafürQuote from: tonyk on June 11, 2014, 04:17:31 pmI am also annoyed to no end to be lectured Homer / Shakespeare style on the history of shipbuilding when I look for a one sentence answer to a business issue…agreedWhy only some of us need to act in constructive way? And + I consider this constructive criticism…
Quote from: tonyk on June 11, 2014, 10:11:38 pmQuote from: cass on June 11, 2014, 10:04:16 pmQuote from: tonyk on June 11, 2014, 08:30:29 pmУ меня есть новости для вас, о тех голосов в вашей голове, это не бог говорит с вамиenglish pleaseEvery word that I labor to write is placed where it is for a specific reason.I do not expect all such words to be equally useful to every reader.But all words are there because I specifically wish to communicate something to someone.He who has ears to hear, let him hear.Wow, na gut wenn Ihr meint so kommunizieren zu müssen, dann macht das, aber dann bitte ohne mich!Ist ehrlich gesagt nicht wirklich konstruktiv so zu handeln. Naja ... klinke mich dann hier mal aus ... viel Spass und weiter so ... keine Zeit dafürQuote from: tonyk on June 11, 2014, 04:17:31 pmI am also annoyed to no end to be lectured Homer / Shakespeare style on the history of shipbuilding when I look for a one sentence answer to a business issue…agreed
Quote from: cass on June 11, 2014, 10:04:16 pmQuote from: tonyk on June 11, 2014, 08:30:29 pmУ меня есть новости для вас, о тех голосов в вашей голове, это не бог говорит с вамиenglish pleaseEvery word that I labor to write is placed where it is for a specific reason.I do not expect all such words to be equally useful to every reader.But all words are there because I specifically wish to communicate something to someone.He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
Quote from: tonyk on June 11, 2014, 08:30:29 pmУ меня есть новости для вас, о тех голосов в вашей голове, это не бог говорит с вамиenglish please
У меня есть новости для вас, о тех голосов в вашей голове, это не бог говорит с вами
I am also annoyed to no end to be lectured Homer / Shakespeare style on the history of shipbuilding when I look for a one sentence answer to a business issue…
Total # of fulltime/part-time/ developers and #contractor developers + total $ amount, would be nice…
Right now funds are being allocated to the following developers:Eric Frias (C++)Dan Notestein (C++)ToastHackfisherNikita (web)Vikram (C++)MeArlenBrian Nathan Syncad (Polish+Indian Devs/Testers)On the operations side:Pam (books), Stan, Arlen, Brian + Accountant + Legal Consulting + TravelSo we have about 17 full time individuals and many part-timers and misc expenses. If you divide up the AGS funds among those people you see that we are operating with less than a 12 month runway (PTS funds are not liquid). So if you would like us to fund other parties then it will have to come at the expense of some of these individuals having job security for a minimum of 6 months.
Or did you mean you want to know our individual salaries as well?
Quote from: toast on June 11, 2014, 03:54:50 pm$100k held as buffer month-to-month, the rest paid to employees.Or did you mean you want to know our individual salaries as well?I thought you do not work for Invictus and/or the new boat... And I am surprised with the furious attack on me, when the explanation was FAR from straight and simple…
$100k held as buffer month-to-month, the rest paid to employees.Or did you mean you want to know our individual salaries as well?
Good, I knew where the money come FROM already, I am just concern what happened to the SHIP....
Hyperetas receives its operating budget from the BitShares Trust. It makes payments in BTC, PTS, USD and soon many others, as specified and documented in a group of public spreadsheets which are checked frequently by bitcountant.com. One of the services it performs is handling trading on BitStamp, Cryptsy, and Bter and so enough funds are provided in advance to allow Hyperetas to do conversions on these exchanges when market conditions are most favorable. We try to keep a balance of about $100K in these accounts so that we never have to trade at a bad time in order to make a payment.As for recycling of AGS, we have said we would not do that. Period. We have also said that once we pay employees or vendors for their services, the money is theirs to do with what they please. It does not surprise us that people working in this industry would want to donate some or all of their earnings to the cause and we have publicly encouraged this from the very beginning.
Quote from: tonyk on June 11, 2014, 03:14:03 pmFor more specific answers Stan will have to get involved As he is the manager of the payroll company Formerly known as Invictus.Right… leave the specific answers to Stan… I have been on this forum for close to 6 m. now. I have not read a specific answer from him. He can write you a good book with a lot of metaphors, allegories and even ‘appropriate’ pictures, but if you blink you have missed the important information in some comparison of the DACs shares to golden eggs laid by a Duck hatched by PTS eggs in the previous DAC or Duck. Let him make an important announcement regarding the unmined yet PTS, and how they will be used at the sole discretion of Invictus (or is it Socrates or Hyperetas) for advertising - hidden in a thread named of all things “Rest in Peace, DA”. Ask him where the money went and he will post you a nice picture of ancient Greek ship and will even explain to you the inner workings of the ship and where the name comes from … I hope you catch my driftIs this somehow unclear? Should we make tl;dr's in every post?QuoteHyperetas receives its operating budget from the BitShares Trust. It makes payments in BTC, PTS, USD and soon many others, as specified and documented in a group of public spreadsheets which are checked frequently by bitcountant.com. One of the services it performs is handling trading on BitStamp, Cryptsy, and Bter and so enough funds are provided in advance to allow Hyperetas to do conversions on these exchanges when market conditions are most favorable. We try to keep a balance of about $100K in these accounts so that we never have to trade at a bad time in order to make a payment.As for recycling of AGS, we have said we would not do that. Period. We have also said that once we pay employees or vendors for their services, the money is theirs to do with what they please. It does not surprise us that people working in this industry would want to donate some or all of their earnings to the cause and we have publicly encouraged this from the very beginning.
For more specific answers Stan will have to get involved As he is the manager of the payroll company Formerly known as Invictus.Right… leave the specific answers to Stan… I have been on this forum for close to 6 m. now. I have not read a specific answer from him. He can write you a good book with a lot of metaphors, allegories and even ‘appropriate’ pictures, but if you blink you have missed the important information in some comparison of the DACs shares to golden eggs laid by a Duck hatched by PTS eggs in the previous DAC or Duck. Let him make an important announcement regarding the unmined yet PTS, and how they will be used at the sole discretion of Invictus (or is it Socrates or Hyperetas) for advertising - hidden in a thread named of all things “Rest in Peace, DA”. Ask him where the money went and he will post you a nice picture of ancient Greek ship and will even explain to you the inner workings of the ship and where the name comes from … I hope you catch my drift
Quote from: AdamBLevine on June 11, 2014, 04:15:44 amWho is Hypertas, and why were they given 134,000USD worth of bitcoin at current rate?So the questions really are what I have left from the quote:Who is Hypertas ?What are they paid for?The reinvestment part is really non issue (if payment is legit/reasonable). I have seen a lot of parties, (legitimately) paid, who tend to reinvest part of that pay back in AGS….
It's very unlikely to be one of the contractors re-investing their earnings, since we've seen patterns of 3BTC donations to the AGS everyday.
Hi, Adam,I found something about AngelShares that you might be interested in.These three donations to 1ANGELwQwWxMmbdaSWhWLqBEtPTkWb8uDc (the AGS BTC donation address) are quite suspicious:https://blockchain.info/tx/60d47ffb496bcff064408b900d53d242e9bbd854cae2b610a1928146aae2d214https://blockchain.info/tx/22bf12c9c36d042a224cc59b8b23c0df126a2f1b005bb50e1965b7cf72c409e0https://blockchain.info/tx/31d4c4f06732194126d07972ea71d701b331abd878f2993e41f486506db9483eYou can easily trace the output (https://blockchain.info/tx-index/57931028/0) down to the donation address (1ANGELwQwWxMmbdaSWhWLqBEtPTkWb8uDc) directly:1JYgevsQREK1DBQKHJBNRYqtWSPmep77pT|16UbgMKBmspq7WVDmNrpNAReNe4iZQTjvK|17wefmCLyJRwVjBk6HVYZdByGWUsqaHF9v|1Dj8CdXFSRf8veWb4hzgiMbae2K2miiMht|1PSS7uYA1VEgWFMDtqsMwUa2sxRVF5kGsc|1MRanPtASeZUWC44rQHNPmVSgR5M9kZdts|1PYicC3TkEZUwuTMPLjSawJqEvLw94RPz6|1ANGELwQwWxMmbdaSWhWLqBEtPTkWb8uDcIn a sense, Invictus is donating to AGS using the AGS fund.I think you're the only one in the BitShares forum that Invictus can't ignore and I wish you could bust them using the information on the blockchain that I provided.Thank you,Anonymous
What makes you think it's not one of the contractors they're paying with those funds re-investing since they know better than anyone on the outside that real value is being created?I've got no problem bringing this up but unless you can tie it to funds that are supposed to be in savings, or that went directly from AGS to being reinvested in AGS with almost no intermediary hops that could represent someone being paid, this seems highly circumstantial.
Hi, Adam,It's very unlikely to be one of the contractors re-investing their earnings, since we've seen patterns of 3BTC donations to the AGS everyday. Chances are Invictus is the one behind the daily 3BTC donation trying to dilute our AGS rewards and it might be our only chance to find out the truth. I can not find any further evidence except row #52 in their fund usage doc noting that those 200BTC are paid to Hyperetas for operations:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqTwk-e7yzJydDFnQmlkTVlkbWpubnJBbzR2UG5ucnc&usp=sharing#gid=0But hopefully, it you bring this up, some other guys in the forum could find out.Thank you,Anonymous