BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: Empirical1.1 on October 15, 2014, 01:16:54 pm
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A recent comprehensive study found that the two countries most likely to adopt Bitcoin (BitAssets :) ) are Venezuela and Argentina.
http://www.coindesk.com/argentina-most-likely-adopt-bitcoin/
Primary Reason: Highly inflationary local currencies and low accessibility to alternatives.
Those two countries are literally begging and clawing with their fingernails for BitAssets.
What is the opportunity?
Argentina's GDP: $600 Billion+
Venezuala's GDP: $400 Billion+
Total: $1 Trillion +
In Kenya, up to 40% of the GDP flows through M-Pesa
(A mobile phone based money transfer service using cellphone minutes as currency.)
I would say M-Pesa's success is the result of poor banking infrastructure but it does show that even a third works country can adopt a new payment & money system if the need is there and what a significant part of its GDP it can become.
Targeting: There are only a handful of Bitcoin exchanges and partners that need to be pitched BitAssets in these countries. Once they understand them I'm sure they'll agree that they are what they're looking for vs. Bitcoin. That's the entry point. I believe BitAssets can spread like wildfire there because that's where the need for them is highest. The potential market size could be very significant too.
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Argentina had such a good experience last time they had a USD-pegged currency. I'm sure they'd love it... ;)
In all seriousness, adoption down there means someone with BTSX has to trade them away for Argentine and Venezuelan currency. What's the business case for doing so?
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Argentina had such a good experience last time they had a USD-pegged currency. I'm sure they'd love it... ;)
In all seriousness, adoption down there means someone with BTSX has to trade them away for Argentine and Venezuelan currency. What's the business case for doing so?
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Trading BTSX for Argentine or Venezuelan currency is the same as other markets. In the worst case you will charge a little extra (to cover the cost of converting to USD).
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Argentina had such a good experience last time they had a USD-pegged currency. I'm sure they'd love it... ;)
In all seriousness, adoption down there means someone with BTSX has to trade them away for Argentine and Venezuelan currency. What's the business case for doing so?
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Actually the USD is exactly what they want.
https://flightfox.com/tradecraft/argentina-black-market
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-15/argentines-are-hoarding-1-every-15-cash-dollars-world
The business use case is an entire economy worth $100 Billion BitUSD+
BitUSD is also vastly superior to a cash based economy as it can be sent online easily instead of in person etc.
Like M-Pesa once it's shown to work it will then spread worldwide to similar use case countries.
(M-Pesa is now in South Africa, Afghanistan, Eastern Europe and India.)
We don't have to worry about exchange rates etc. we just need to demonstrate BitAssets to the current crop of Bitcoin entrepreneurs in those countries and the rest takes care of itself.
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+5% This is definitely the way we should all be thinking. BitUSD only needs to "catch" in one significant area and it will spread everywhere else it's needed. I remember reading about a few companies looking to disrupt M-Pesa... they would be ideal partners.
EDIT: https://www.bitpesa.co
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I'll add one more point in favor of this argument: both these countries have ALREADY spited the U.S. and its international monetary system. Venezuela is happy to sell its oil in the U.S., but its government now is still the leftist successor/vestige of the late Hugo Chavez, who talked junk about the U.S. for many years publicly and was best buddies with Fidel Castro. Argentina, though it was a closer ally, recently moved its loan out of a U.S. bank and essentially started servicing its own debt. Both of these countries have less to lose (than most others) by doing something radical that flies in the face of the default economic system and its USD currency. And yet both of them have sizable economies and enough technological wiring to make an impact if they were to embrace crypto.
BitUSD would be the perfect currency for either one. Or we can go with a BitPesos or BitBolivars if they prefer, pegged to dollars or any other appropriate measure.
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If we may start revolutions in these countries, let's suggest they move all money into BitUSD, then what, they switch from taxing everything to property only?
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I'll add one more point in favor of this argument: both these countries have ALREADY spited the U.S. and its international monetary system. Venezuela is happy to sell its oil in the U.S., but its government now is still the leftist successor/vestige of the late Hugo Chavez, who talked junk about the U.S. for many years publicly and was best buddies with Fidel Castro. Argentina, though it was a closer ally, recently moved its loan out of a U.S. bank and essentially started servicing its own debt. Both of these countries have less to lose (than most others) by doing something radical that flies in the face of the default economic system and its USD currency. And yet both of them have sizable economies and enough technological wiring to make an impact if they were to embrace crypto.
BitUSD would be the perfect currency for either one. Or we can go with a BitPesos or BitBolivars if they prefer, pegged to dollars or any other appropriate measure.
It's not about convincing the governments. I think both countries are trying to prop up highly inflationary failing currencies and force their citizens to use them.
However the citizens have created a large black market USD economy. Bitcoin or BitAssets would fall into a similar category.
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It's not about convincing the governments. I think both countries are trying to prop up highly inflationary failing currencies and force their citizens to use them.
However the citizens have created a large black market USD economy. Bitcoin or BitAssets would fall into a similar category.
I actually think you're right. But I'm also speaking of greater government tolerance toward these businesses and their local bank involvement, etc. They can make it easy for people or they can make it more difficult. And how cool would it be if a government did decide to participate?
They just need a little convincing. Maybe an offer they can't refuse. From a peg-legged pirate named named Pete.
(http://wondersofdisney.yolasite.com/resources/mickeymouse/mickey_pals/pegcatchmick.png)
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I'll add one more point in favor of this argument: both these countries have ALREADY spited the U.S. and its international monetary system. Venezuela is happy to sell its oil in the U.S., but its government now is still the leftist successor/vestige of the late Hugo Chavez, who talked junk about the U.S. for many years publicly and was best buddies with Fidel Castro. Argentina, though it was a closer ally, recently moved its loan out of a U.S. bank and essentially started servicing its own debt. Both of these countries have less to lose (than most others) by doing something radical that flies in the face of the default economic system and its USD currency. And yet both of them have sizable economies and enough technological wiring to make an impact if they were to embrace crypto.
BitUSD would be the perfect currency for either one. Or we can go with a BitPesos or BitBolivars if they prefer, pegged to dollars or any other appropriate measure.
Oh this is brilliant in so many ways I can't even begin to convey... and why had I not considered the potential here before!?!
BitBolivar!, are you KIDDING ME? That would be so huge in all of South America! Time to dust off my Spanish.
If there's a country on earth willing to embrace BitShares / BitAssets it would be Venezuela. Also Ecuador, whose president Rafael Correa is an economist quite disabused of neoliberal policies. Also for sure Argentina for so many reasons. Bolivia, yes.
I mean, in Venezuela you have a government officially promoting and distributing Linux machines since 2007.
With respect to the operating system, Venezuela has taken a strong position in favor of open-source software in order to "promote technological development" and help "reach technological independence." For this reason the computers will use the open-source Linux, but the components are also compatible with the Windows operating system.
-Source: http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/2441
Can you imagine getting a country onboard?
The implications of this really need to be explained to the right people in these countries.
An international arbitration panel has ordered Venezuela's government to pay $1.6bn to oil-giant Exxon Mobil for the seizure of a major oil project in the country, along with other losses. Maybe they should pay Exxon in BitUSD. ;)
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who will be the first to create BitBolivar :)
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who will be the first to create BitBolivar :)
Bytemaster? BitBolívar por favor... para el pueblo! :)
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who will be the first to create BitBolivar :)
"asset_reg_fee": "227,978.15040 BTSX",
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It could be everything that Auroracoin was not. The second coming. Aurora Bolivaralis.
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who will be the first to create BitBolivar :)
"asset_reg_fee": "227,978.15040 BTSX",
I think it should be Market issued. Not user issued.
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Same fee with market issued asseta
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BitUSD will be fine. When it comes to purchasing power, they trust USD the most. Making a new name will just make pitching it even harder, and will fragment the market.
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BitUSD will be fine. When it comes to purchasing power, they trust USD the most. Making a new name will just make pitching it even harder, and will fragment the market.
Well, yes and no. People still have to pay for many things in Bolivar regardless. So whenever that debit card functionality arrives, it could be very helpful for relating to the way in which things are priced. Plus the government would probably look more kindly on it's citizens using BitBolivar, and might even encourage it's adoption. The Bolivar is itself pegged to the USD, but has undergone some devaluation in recent years.
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BitUSD will be fine. When it comes to purchasing power, they trust USD the most. Making a new name will just make pitching it even harder, and will fragment the market.
Well, yes and no. People still have to pay for many things in Bolivar regardless. So whenever that debit card functionality arrives, it could be very helpful for relating to the way in which things are priced. Plus the government would probably look more kindly on it's citizens using BitBolivar, and might even encourage it's adoption. The Bolivar is itself pegged to the USD, but has undergone some devaluation in recent years.
The reason they have such a huge USD cash based black market economy is because they dislike the inflationary Bolivar.
The banking system already allows unrestricted access to Bolivar I assume. BitBolivar can be introduced but it is an extremely low value proposition. It also won't be looked on any more favourably by government because of the greater privacy BitBolivar provides.
The mother lode is BitUSD.
Anywhere demand is high but supply is limited or restricted. That's the market. It's like selling water in the desert, easy.
The marketing strategy should clearly be to find the 4/5 markets that fit those criteria the most & try penetrate them, starting with the ones that are the most targetable.
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BitUSD will be fine. When it comes to purchasing power, they trust USD the most. Making a new name will just make pitching it even harder, and will fragment the market.
Well, yes and no. People still have to pay for many things in Bolivar regardless. So whenever that debit card functionality arrives, it could be very helpful for relating to the way in which things are priced. Plus the government would probably look more kindly on it's citizens using BitBolivar, and might even encourage it's adoption. The Bolivar is itself pegged to the USD, but has undergone some devaluation in recent years.
The reason they have such a huge USD cash based black market economy is because they dislike the inflationary Bolivar.
The banking system already allows unrestricted access to Bolivar I assume. BitBolivar can be introduced but it is an extremely low value proposition. It also won't be looked on any more favourably by government because of the greater privacy BitBolivar provides.
The mother lode is BitUSD.
Anywhere demand is high but supply is limited or restricted. That's the market. It's like selling water in the desert, easy.
The marketing strategy should clearly be to find the 4/5 markets that fit those criteria the most & try penetrate them, starting with the ones that are the most targetable.
I spent 6 months in Argentina recently, and it's pretty obvious that they're in desperate need of a new system. I really think BitUSD could work. The problem with creating an asset like BitBolivar or BitPeso is that, like Empirical 1.1 said, the citizens of these countries do not have any confidence in their local currency.
In Argentina, people buy dollars in order to SAVE their money in a currency that, to them, seems more stable. They still have to buy everything using pesos, but they're literally saving dollars in their mattresses rather than keeping pesos in Argentine banks. The government has serious controls on how many dollars you can buy, but that doesn't REALLY affect things because there is a huge black market for it. You can walk down to a street called Calle Florida and see tons of people calling out offering to buy/sell pesos and dollars. The local newspapers even publish the black market exchange rates on the front page daily.
I agree with Empirical 1.1 that BitUSD would work much better in these countries. Yes, they still buy and sell things within the country using pesos, but the exchange rate has become so well publicized, and coupled with the fact that people there really THINK in dollars, I think the conversion to using BitUSD would be very simple for people in Argentina. I think it is a place with huge potential for this technology. I don't know as much about Venezuela, but I would assume similarities.
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Relavent article: http://www.coindesk.com/bitpagos-brings-bitcoin-8000-convenience-stores-ripio/
A BitPagos (https://www.bitpagos.com/en/) partnership would bring BitUSD to over 8000 convenience stores in Argentina.
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Relavent article: http://www.coindesk.com/bitpagos-brings-bitcoin-8000-convenience-stores-ripio/
A BitPagos (https://www.bitpagos.com/en/) partnership would bring BitUSD to over 8000 convenience stores in Argentina.
+5% definitely, I forgot about that, I've brought them up before
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=7683.msg102058#msg102058
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Relavent article: http://www.coindesk.com/bitpagos-brings-bitcoin-8000-convenience-stores-ripio/
A BitPagos (https://www.bitpagos.com/en/) partnership would bring BitUSD to over 8000 convenience stores in Argentina.
+5% definitely, I forgot about that, I've brought them up before
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=7683.msg102058#msg102058
+5%
Muy interesante!
You're probably right about the USD vs Bolivars / Pesos issue. And I don't disagree that BitUSD is going to be very appealing in these quarters due to it's immediate utility.
I'd still like to see a strong non-USD denominated bitasset available, in South America in particular. On a socio-political level, that continent is on a whole other trip, and the dollar, despite it's relative usefulness and stability, is still synonymous with yanqui imperialism to a whole lot of people who'd rather be doing their own thing.
Maybe they will succeed at evolving the 'Sucre' beyond a regional trading currency. If It becomes like the Euro, we could have BitSUCRE.
Anyway, back from fantasy asset island.... People will use whatever works and I would think a BitPagos / BitUSD integration is worth some serious effort!
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Relavent article: http://www.coindesk.com/bitpagos-brings-bitcoin-8000-convenience-stores-ripio/
A BitPagos (https://www.bitpagos.com/en/) partnership would bring BitUSD to over 8000 convenience stores in Argentina.
+5% definitely, I forgot about that, I've brought them up before
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=7683.msg102058#msg102058
+5%
Muy interesante!
You're probably right about the USD vs Bolivars / Pesos issue. And I don't disagree that BitUSD is going to be very appealing in these quarters due to it's immediate utility.
I'd still like to see a strong non-USD denominated bitasset available, in South America in particular. On a socio-political level, that continent is on a whole other trip, and the dollar, despite it's relative usefulness and stability, is still synonymous with yanqui imperialism to a whole lot of people who'd rather be doing their own thing.
Maybe they will succeed at evolving the 'Sucre' beyond a regional trading currency. If It becomes like the Euro, we could have BitSUCRE.
Anyway, back from fantasy asset island.... People will use whatever works and I would think a BitPagos / BitUSD integration is worth some serious effort!
I wonder if the BitShares team has been approached by any of these startups that are working on Bitcoin exchanges/wallets/etc. in Latin American markets. The right partnership down there could be golden.