BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: Method-X on October 03, 2014, 10:46:20 pm
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All the discussion about a referral program going on has really got me thinking deeply about how organic adoption can be sped up.
I've come to the conclusion that we need to very publicly demonstrate the uniqueness/value of BitUSD. We need to display the strengths it has over every other crypto. So what's the best way to do this? Allow merchants on OpenBazaar to accept BitUSD. I can't think of any use case that showcases the value proposition of BitUSD better than a marketplace that deals only in volatile crypto. A stable crypto would allow an open marketplace like OB to attract a user base that goes far beyond drug users. Average users who want nothing to do with drugs currently don't have many reasons to use OB because it exposes them to Bitcoins massive volatility. Now, if OB accepted a non-volatile crypto, an average user would be much more likely to use the service for legitimate reason to save on fees (vs. eBay). BitUSD would allow for an entirely legitimate demographic.
How do we make this happen?
I've done some digging and found this thread (http://forum.openbazaar.org/index.php?p=/discussion/31/altcoin-support/p1) on the official OB forum. I also started this thread (http://www.reddit.com/r/OpenBazaar/) on /r/OpenBazaar
I'm not going to make some penultimate statement, but generally coins that support multisig transactions could be added in the future. Our plans don't currently involve it due to resource constraints and testing support, but it wouldn't be that hard to add it on.
EDIT: Bytemaster has confirmed we already support multi-sig.
Yes, that's correct. It would also require having notaries that are willing to use the alt-coin as well, all three parties need to have a key to the multisig.
The only thing I think you'll need to put more thought into is if you're talking about putting alt-coins into the existing OB network then you need to make sure that all parties are capable of doing multisig with that coin (all parties being buyer, seller, and notary). So we'll need some way of clarifying which notaries can be used for alts, that type of thing.
Based on the digging I've done, it seems the OB team is very willing to work with alt developers on integration.
Bottom Line
BitUSD on OB is the catalyst we need. It will get BitUSD massive publicity, create demand and showcase its value proposition. Once introduced to BitUSD, merchants and consumers using OB won't want to transact in anything else! This is the perfect opportunity to strategically seed BitUSD in the right place at the right time. When it's inevitably a success on OB, BitUSD will spread to other marketplaces, creating more demand and likely explode in direction we can't anticipate.
Lets make this happen before OB is associated with drugs and other illegal activity. The time is now!
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+5%
https://openbazaar.org/
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I love the idea of open bazaar but and I am curious about the multi-sig transaction myself as it truly represents a trust-less system.
I quickly looked at their forums to see how white to grey to black their markets intend to go but I could not find a answer.
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I love the idea of open bazaar but and I am curious about the multi-sig transaction myself as it truly represents a trust-less system.
I quickly looked at their forums to see how white to grey to black their markets intend to go but I could not find a answer.
I've been following OB since its inception and the devs have stated many times they want to attract non-drug activity. That's why I'm suggesting we get behind this. BitUSD will allow for legitimate products and services on OB.
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Blockchain already supports multisig.
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Blockchain already supports multisig.
Excellent news! I don't think the OB devs have time to experiment with BitUSD integration based on some posts I've read (not that you guys aren't busy either)... This is something you and your team would have to introduce to their code manually. The good news is they're totally open to altcoin implementation.
https://github.com/OpenBazaar/OpenBazaar
Strategically, I don't think you'll get many opportunities as perfect as this.
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could be a good place to start.
we should learn from paypal, and they got off with 2 choices they made
1. concentrate on a small community and solve a problem here (ebay at that time)
2. in the beginning they paid money to new users.
so maybe it is a good way to integrate bitUSD in Open Bazaar. i would love it.
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Strategically, I don't think you'll get many opportunities as perfect as this.
I could not agree more. This really is a perfect union. We solve some of their major problems and they solve ours.
I would be open to diluting our shares so OB can give away bitUSD in a promotion. "Fund an OB account with bit$100 and we will give you bit$5 bonus."
OB is an excellent brand for us to attach our selves to. They are universally loved by the crypto world and seen as righteous.
Either way it is an excellent use of Btsx devs time to do the integration. With the easy fiat>bitUSD on ramp we are building this will be a killer combination.
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Strategically, I don't think you'll get many opportunities as perfect as this.
I could not agree more. This really is a perfect union. We solve some of their major problems and they solve ours.
I would be open to diluting our shares so OB can give away bitUSD in a promotion. "Fund an OB account with bit$100 and we will give you bit$5 bonus."
OB is an excellent brand for us to attach our selves to. They are universally loved by the crypto world and seen as righteous.
Either way it is an excellent use of Btsx devs time to do the integration. With the easy fiat>bitUSD on ramp we are building this will be a killer combination.
Look at the reddit thread, they actively downvoted the thread. No one is ready to give up on Bitcoin. Once they get it going with Bitcoin it will fragment their marketplace to have a 2nd one. Realistically speaking without paying and hiring developers to work on this, the chances of them integrating BitUSD are near 0.
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I personally pledge to airdrop $1000 of my own money on the OpenBazaar community if BitUSD integration is committed to the OB code on GitHub.
1. concentrate on a small community and solve a problem here (ebay at that time)
+5% This is a very good point I hadn't even considered. PayPal eventually became so integral to eBay, they were bought by eBay.
Look at the reddit thread, they actively downvoted the thread. No one is ready to give up on Bitcoin. Once they get it going with Bitcoin it will fragment their marketplace to have a 2nd one. Realistically speaking without paying and hiring developers to work on this, the chances of them integrating BitUSD are near 0.
The thread was downvoted because /r/OpenBazaar redditors are mostly /r/Bitcoin delusionals. The developers themselves are open to altcoin integration and already have other coins actively working on integration i.e. Darkcoin. Secondly, it seems from the posts I've read that it's up to the merchants to accept any coin they want, so long as theres code for it. I think a merchant is a node and the nodes decide what coins they want to accept / the code for a node is their choice. The glass is half full gamey. :)
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The developers themselves are open to altcoin integration and already have other coins actively working on integration i.e. Darkcoin. Secondly, it seems from the posts I've read that it's up to the merchants to accept any coin they want, so long as it's supported. I think a merchant is a node and the nodes decide what coins they want to accept.
If that's the case it's definitely worth the effort to get bitUSD integrated as an option imo. If this can be done is should be high priority. It's the ideal way for bitUSD to take its first footsteps as a currency.
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I love the idea of open bazaar but and I am curious about the multi-sig transaction myself as it truly represents a trust-less system.
I quickly looked at their forums to see how white to grey to black their markets intend to go but I could not find a answer.
I've been following OB since its inception and the devs have stated many times they want to attract non-drug activity. That's why I'm suggesting we get behind this. BitUSD will allow for legitimate products and services on OB.
In that case I am 100% in agreement with you This would be a perfect real world use of a currency that they will want, bitUSD. . If a fund was created for the sole purpose of a a airdrop/getting them on board I would contribute to it also.
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Well let's crowd found this and make a bounty . I have no idea how much will be need it for development though.
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Well let's crowd found this and make a bounty . I have no idea how much will be need it for development though.
I'd be willing to put $200 out of pocket to contribute to this initiative to get it rolling.
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OB is open-source - we should ask I3 to task some dev time to integrating bitUSD.
Make it easy for the OB devs; I3 has one of the best crypto teams in the business.
As an AGS investor I would support the use of AGS funds for OB/bitUSD integration.
The ROI could be enormous and there is really no better way to jump-start bitUSD adoption.
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It would be ideal if bitUSD could be implemented as a default option for merchants rather than just an option they can select. Items presumably need to be priced in a stable currency, so it makes sense for the default pricing to be in bitUSD.
If that could be done then some referral program for spending bitUSD on open bazaar could become a possibility...
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OB is open-source - we should ask I3 to task some dev time to integrating bitUSD.
Make it easy for the OB devs; I3 has one of the best crypto teams in the business.
As an AGS investor I would support the use of AGS funds for OB/bitUSD integration.
The ROI could be enormous and there is really no better way to jump-start bitUSD adoption.
This makes a lot of sense.
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OB is open-source - we should ask I3 to task some dev time to integrating bitUSD.
As a substantial AGS investor I would support the use of AGS funds for OB/bitUSD integration.
The ROI could be enormous and there is really no better way to jump-start bitUSD adoption.
Up until now did not see any founding from AGS to project not coming from I3 themselves. If they wanna support the'll do it but I suggest not to wait on them for that. I propose that a well know member a community should create a BtishareX account and we all can send bitUSD to this account, when we have enough founds in there we hire a developer. I3 could of course donate and maybe we could use some money from the community found as well if they see fit.
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I propose that a well know member a community should create a BtishareX account and we all can send bitUSD to this account, when we have enough founds are in there we hire a developer.
I'd chuck in $100.
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I'll put 100 bitUSD
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Great idea, I would definitely contribute to this.
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The thread was downvoted because /r/OpenBazaar redditors are mostly /r/Bitcoin delusionals. The developers themselves are open to altcoin integration and already have other coins actively working on integration i.e. Darkcoin. Secondly, it seems from the posts I've read that it's up to the merchants to accept any coin they want, so long as theres code for it. I think a merchant is a node and the nodes decide what coins they want to accept / the code for a node is their choice. The glass is half full gamey. :)
+5% Good info.
A glass half full? How can that be ? Everyone knows that a glass half full is actually half empty !
Unfortunately because of TITAN (?) one problem we'll face is integration. Most bitcoin forks are very similar if not identical on the wallet API.
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I could not agree more. This really is a perfect union. We solve some of their major problems and they solve ours.
I would be open to diluting our shares so OB can give away bitUSD in a promotion. "Fund an OB account with bit$100 and we will give you bit$5 bonus."
OB is an excellent brand for us to attach our selves to. They are universally loved by the crypto world and seen as righteous.
Either way it is an excellent use of Btsx devs time to do the integration. With the easy fiat>bitUSD on ramp we are building this will be a killer combination.
+5% I cannot think of a better strategic partnership. Synergy at its best.
Pros
- Piggyback on OpenBazaar publicity.
- Creates real demand for BitUSD.
- Demonstrates the necessity of a non-volatile crypto to merchants.
- OpenBazaar needs a stable crypto to attract non-drug users.
- If successful on OpenBazaar, BitUSD will rapidly spread to other markets.
- Increased volume means a stronger PEG.
Cons
Maybe a dev could comment on whether or not TITAN will prohibit BitUSD integration?
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Maybe a dev could comment on whether or not TITAN will prohibit BitUSD integration?
I haven't worked with wallets enough, but it is clearly the case. The whole account creation system/wallet is different. This is why Cryptsy hasn't set it up. It took them forever to get NXT. You can buy a lot of site scripts but none will work with BTSX. :(
If OpenBazaar is indeed currency neutral and will support multiple currencies then we definitely need to see it done sooner than later.
TITAN/wallet system wouldn't prohibit the integration, but it would be prohibitive. Hard to know how much unless you are a wallet expert between the 2 + know a bit about openbazaar.
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TITAN would be fantastic for something like OB if well implemented.
A BTSX account could be created at the same time at the OB account.
User/merchant name = bitUSD send/receive address.
My limited experience in getting people use Bitcoin has shown the public address system to be a bit of a stumbling block.
Folks that use fiat banking (ie. big OB demographic) are accustomed to sending money by name, such as when a cheque/bank draft etc. is created.
TITAN gives crypto the ability to provide a familiar user experience.
All that said, eventually we need a browser wallet where buyers can just agree to pay right on the merchant's order page. Back end no one will care about.
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if we are serious about this I think the first step is creating a fund and then hiring a developer to integrate it. I would not worry about Reddit it doesn't really matter. Put the code in place and merchants will choose the option that puts the most cash in their pocket all on their own.
Big question who will hold the funds to pay a developer?
I would suggest we do not pitty patty to long as other coins have a head start all ready but this isn't anything money can't fix :D
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If OpenBazaar is indeed currency neutral and will support multiple currencies then we definitely need to see it done sooner than later.
I'd say the first stable crypto to be introduced to OpenBazaar (or some other less reputable marketplace), will win regardless of our technical superiority. Speaking of which... I hope the NuBits team doesn't frequent these forums.
If OpenBazaar is indeed currency neutral
They seem to be. Read this thread. (http://forum.openbazaar.org/index.php?p=/discussion/31/altcoin-support/p1)
TITAN/wallet system wouldn't prohibit the integration, but it would be prohibitive. Hard to know how much unless you are a wallet expert between the 2 + know a bit about openbazaar.
As long as TITAN doesn't make this completely impossible. Hopefully the BitShares founders will see this as the opportunity it is and get behind it.
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Sounds like we need a cost appraisal for this.
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Retaining a dev outside of I3 will be terribly inefficient and costly.
OB and Bitshares are very early in the development cycle and both are going to need ongoing support for a very long time (years).
The only way to do this properly is for I3 to form a strategic partnership with OB.
OB is to commerce what Bitshares is to finance.
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Interesting thread. Vertoe's name was familiar and I remember this thread. https://darkcointalk.org/threads/talking-about-bitshares-on-july-the-4th.1699/
So he is a Bitshares fan/open-minded/not a hater. There might be some serious partnership potential there that could be worked out. It sounds like he is at least wanting to lay the groundwork for a multi-currency. If he did that, then you would have a significant amount of the work done.
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Given that a prerequisite is to integrate multisig, perhaps we could fund development as a bounty using 2-of-3 or 3-of-5 in BitUSD.
I will report back with what I can determine on the feasibility.
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We have an OpenBazaar developer response:
The beauty of OpenBazaar and it being open, is that you don't really need our consideration to do this, you can start working on it yourself or rally troops to help you with this great idea.
like it was said before, we're still getting things to a beta stage. Ideally the tools needed to work with BitUSD would be so similar to BTC that it'd be a matter of just replacing the blockchain checks for another one depending on the currency specified in the transaction.
It is certainly a possibility and the idea sounds really attractive as a way to get rid of the volatility issue. I've not read a single line about it yet, thanks for bringing it up. Didn't know about BitUSD.
http://www.reddit.com/r/OpenBazaar/comments/2i849x/would_you_consider_using_a_nonvolatile_crypto_in/cl0eokn
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We have an OpenBazaar developer response:
The beauty of OpenBazaar and it being open, is that you don't really need our consideration to do this, you can start working on it yourself or rally troops to help you with this great idea.
like it was said before, we're still getting things to a beta stage. Ideally the tools needed to work with BitUSD would be so similar to BTC that it'd be a matter of just replacing the blockchain checks for another one depending on the currency specified in the transaction.
It is certainly a possibility and the idea sounds really attractive as a way to get rid of the volatility issue. I've not read a single line about it yet, thanks for bringing it up. Didn't know about BitUSD.
sounds great
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That (OP) is an excellent idea! It reminds me of paypal's early marketing strategy. In the end paypal benefited ebay and ebay brought paypal exponential growth in users.
Here is a link: http://warstory.co/how-paypal-used-robots-to-acquire-users-in-the-early-days/
Quick Summary of the article above:
At the beginning paypal paid new users $10% and to those that referd new users also $10. That burned through cash reserves relatively quickly. Then paypal grew on ebay by a "charitybot": A script searched for certain types of auctions. The sellers where contacted by email and asked whether they accepted paypay because the buyer would be buying those items for a charity and would only be able to pay with paypal. Many wanted to help the charity and set up a paypal account.
-> A little more abstract summary: grow on one platform first where your service is needed the most, automate it, use the charity bonus and partner with a charity organization (paypal partnered with red cross).
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We have an OpenBazaar developer response: (http://www.reddit.com/r/OpenBazaar/comments/2i849x/would_you_consider_using_a_nonvolatile_crypto_in/cl0eokn)
The beauty of OpenBazaar and it being open, is that you don't really need our consideration to do this, you can start working on it yourself or rally troops to help you with this great idea.
like it was said before, we're still getting things to a beta stage. Ideally the tools needed to work with BitUSD would be so similar to BTC that it'd be a matter of just replacing the blockchain checks for another one depending on the currency specified in the transaction.
It is certainly a possibility and the idea sounds really attractive as a way to get rid of the volatility issue. I've not read a single line about it yet, thanks for bringing it up. Didn't know about BitUSD.
http://www.reddit.com/r/OpenBazaar/comments/2i849x/would_you_consider_using_a_nonvolatile_crypto_in/cl0eokn
Hats off to MeTHoDx! Well done, the seed has been planted.
bitUSD makes eminent sense as the default currency for something like OB.
Other crypto-currencies can/should be implemented (Monero, etc) to serve specific purposes.
Now we need I3 to follow up formally with OB devs, implement bitUSD and make a very public announcement.
This is extremely cheap and powerful marketing.
Devs, please comment as soon as convenient.
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Just to point out - *pollux* (see his post several posts before this one) is a developer... and has expressed at least initial interest.
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DNS delegate subsidy (dilution) could be used for this, assuming openbazaar makes use of the dns dac. We could give them their own namespace even, like .baz
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
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DNS delegate subsidy (dilution) could be used for this, assuming openbazaar makes use of the dns dac. We could give them their own namespace even, like .baz
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
It should first be a priority to integrating BitUSD into OpenBazaar merchant nodes. After that, we can talk about how best to airdrop BitUSD on the community. One step at a time. :D
Also, reserve bazaar.p2p and openbazaar.p2p before you launch the DAC.
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DNS delegate subsidy (dilution) could be used for this, assuming openbazaar makes use of the dns dac. We could give them their own namespace even, like .baz
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
It should first be a priority to integrating BitUSD into OpenBazaar merchant nodes. After that, we can talk about how best to airdrop BitUSD on the community. One step at a time. :D
Also, reserve bazaar.p2p and openbazaar.p2p before you launch the DAC.
I do not know if he means what you are saying, or maybe pay the open OpenBazaar devs. to do the integration themselves and to be paid in DNS shares...
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DNS delegate subsidy (dilution) could be used for this, assuming openbazaar makes use of the dns dac. We could give them their own namespace even, like .baz
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
It should first be a priority to integrating BitUSD into OpenBazaar merchant nodes. After that, we can talk about how best to airdrop BitUSD on the community. One step at a time. :D
Also, reserve bazaar.p2p and openbazaar.p2p before you launch the DAC.
I do not know if he means what you are saying, or maybe pay the open OpenBazaar devs. to do the integration themselves and to be paid in DNS shares...
Pay the OpenBazaar devs in BitShares DNS shares... yeah that's a great idea.
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Given that a prerequisite is to integrate multisig, perhaps we could fund development as a bounty using 2-of-3 or 3-of-5 in BitUSD.
I will report back with what I can determine on the feasibility.
While I have read bytemaster's comment regarding the blockchain supporting multisig, I cannot find any APIs in the toolkit supporting the workflows. Can a project developer comment on the level to which multisig is supported in the API?
My fairly quick examination has led me to the conclusion that multisig isn't implemented in the toolkit yet. There are less than 25 references in the code to multisig, primarily as stubs in enumerating an attribute of deposit transactions. Before I could commit to making something work (I'm not planning to get involved with the toolkit) I'd need a clear, tested interface on the RPC side that meets the requirements for OpenBazaar (on their wiki).
Bitcoin does this by providing an RPC command as such:
./bitcoind createmultisig 2 '["0491bba2510912a5bd37da1fb5b1673010e43d2c6d812c514e91bfa9f2eb129e1c183329db55bd868e209aac2fbc02cb33d98fe74bf23f0c235d6126b1d8334f86","04865c40293a680cb9c020e7b1e106d8c1916d3cef99aa431a56d253e69256dac09ef122b1a986818a7cb624532f062c1d1f8722084861c5c3291ccffef4ec6874","048d2455d2403e08708fc1f556002f1b6cd83f992d085097f9974ab08a28838f07896fbab08f39495e15fa6fad6edbfb1e754e35fa1c7844c41f322a1863d46213"]'
{
"address" : "3QJmV3qfvL9SuYo34YihAf3sRCW3qSinyC",
"redeemScript" : "52410491bba2510912a5bd37da1fb5b1673010e43d2c6d812c514e91bfa9f2eb129e1c183329db55bd868e209aac2fbc02cb33d98fe74bf23f0c235d6126b1d8334f864104865c40293a680cb9c020e7b1e106d8c1916d3cef99aa431a56d253e69256dac09ef122b1a986818a7cb624532f062c1d1f8722084861c5c3291ccffef4ec687441048d2455d2403e08708fc1f556002f1b6cd83f992d085097f9974ab08a28838f07896fbab08f39495e15fa6fad6edbfb1e754e35fa1c7844c41f322a1863d4621353ae"
}
So I'd formalize the request to have the API expose createmultisig, createrawtransaction, signrawtransaction and sendrawtransaction.
(Also, I wish I could post external links!)
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It's not worth trying to make multisig work at present. Multisig usability is very important and it getting it right will be part of our thin client / power wallet rearchitecture.
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Retaining a dev outside of I3 will be terribly inefficient and costly.
OB and Bitshares are very early in the development cycle and both are going to need ongoing support for a very long time (years).
The only way to do this properly is for I3 to form a strategic partnership with OB.
OB is to commerce what Bitshares is to finance.
I3/OB partnership would most likely be best.
Getting developers up to speed with the Bitshares toolkit is not too easy, as it's pretty different from what most other developers do in their day jobs. Furthermore getting acquainted with the Bitshares toolkit is an investment for most. For most developers who are not already passionate about this tech they will look at learning other blockchain tech first as chances for investment and/or job positions are greater. Hence, partnership or community investment might be the only options.
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great … +5% as old man said before ...and yes the seed it planted :)
Good idea MeTHoDx
Chapeau
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"Open Bazaar partners with Bitshares to bring stability to crypto-commerce".
Be a great headline...
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"Open Bazaar partners with Bitshares to bring stability to crypto-commerce".
Be a great headline...
+5%
This would be a major step forward as well as adding additional credibility within the Bitcoin ecosystem.
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https://forum.namecoin.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2024
they will using namecoin for the DNS solution
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https://forum.namecoin.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2024
they will using namecoin for the DNS solution
Maybe they need to be introduced to our system.
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Shall we get a fundraiser started? How much should we aim for?
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Found this post on /r/Bitcoin and thought the comments were interesting:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2icwzy/openbazaar_may_finally_be_the_catalyst_weve_been/
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We have an OpenBazaar developer response:
The beauty of OpenBazaar and it being open, is that you don't really need our consideration to do this, you can start working on it yourself or rally troops to help you with this great idea.
like it was said before, we're still getting things to a beta stage. Ideally the tools needed to work with BitUSD would be so similar to BTC that it'd be a matter of just replacing the blockchain checks for another one depending on the currency specified in the transaction.
It is certainly a possibility and the idea sounds really attractive as a way to get rid of the volatility issue. I've not read a single line about it yet, thanks for bringing it up. Didn't know about BitUSD.
sounds great
Great job
Retaining a dev outside of I3 will be terribly inefficient and costly.
OB and Bitshares are very early in the development cycle and both are going to need ongoing support for a very long time (years).
The only way to do this properly is for I3 to form a strategic partnership with OB.
OB is to commerce what Bitshares is to finance.
No not imo. I like the general strategy here & I see the value of pegged assets for that market but there's also significant negative mainstream PR & other blowback risk - Think public perception of Bitcoin & Silk Road + other outcomes. However BitAssets are out in the wild so nothing to stop other people using and integrating them.
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MeTHoDx, I think you are on to something here. This sounds like a great idea. We should try to partner with OB as tightly as possible.....maybe even use the leverage of our still undisclosed debit card partners. whatever we do, I think we should shoot for exclusivity and joint promotion. bitUSD is the only currency that really does the job properly for OB. All the other currencies, with their wild volatility, are just more noise that will negatively impact their user experience. Especially since those users are expected to be the general public (on-crypo types).
Volitiliy is front and center in everyones mind now since the wild ride in BTC this weekend, so now is the time to strike! 8)
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No not imo. I like the general strategy here & I see the value of pegged assets for that market but there's also significant negative mainstream PR & other blowback risk - Think public perception of Bitcoin & Silk Road + other outcomes. However BitAssets are out in the wild so nothing to stop other people using and integrating them.
I see your point but lets not forget the entire Bitcoin community is behind OpenBazaar. For the time being, it doesn't have a negative stigma; quite the opposite actually. All I3 has to do is make it easy for BitUSD to be integrated into an OB merchant node. That means improving multisig and eliminating any other obstacles that may get in the way. Once that's out of the way...
a) We crowdfund the necessary development.
OR
b) An I3 dev anonymously commits the code on GitHub.
We can actually avoid all negative backlash if we frame this as "BitUSD allows OpenBazaar to attract non-drug users because they're the only people willing to put up with Bitcoins volatility". And it's true. OpenBazaar needs our product (or our competitors) if they want mainstream adoption and we need a solid showcase if WE want mainstream adoption. The good vastly outweighs the bad.
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No not imo. I like the general strategy here & I see the value of pegged assets for that market but there's also significant negative mainstream PR & other blowback risk - Think public perception of Bitcoin & Silk Road + other outcomes. However BitAssets are out in the wild so nothing to stop other people using and integrating them.
I see your point but lets not forget the entire Bitcoin community is behind OpenBazaar. For the time being, it doesn't have a negative stigma; quite the opposite actually. All I3 has to do is make it easy for BitUSD to be integrated into an OB merchant node. That means improving multisig and eliminating any other obstacles that may get in the way. Once that's out of the way...
a) We crowdfund the necessary development.
b) An I3 dev anonymously commits the code on GitHub.
We can actually avoid all negative backlash if we frame this as "BitUSD allows OpenBazaar to attract non-drug users because they're the only people willing to put up with Bitcoins volatility". And it's true. OpenBazaar needs our product (or our competitors) if they want mainstream adoption and we need a solid showcase if WE want mainstream adoption. The good vastly outweighs the bad.
+5% Great approach, makes sense from both a functional and business approach to a mainstream consumer.
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No not imo. I like the general strategy here & I see the value of pegged assets for that market but there's also significant negative mainstream PR & other blowback risk - Think public perception of Bitcoin & Silk Road + other outcomes. However BitAssets are out in the wild so nothing to stop other people using and integrating them.
I see your point but lets not forget the entire Bitcoin community is behind OpenBazaar. For the time being, it doesn't have a negative stigma; quite the opposite actually. All I3 has to do is make it easy for BitUSD to be integrated into an OB merchant node. That means improving multisig and eliminating any other obstacles that may get in the way. Once that's out of the way...
a) We crowdfund the necessary development.
OR
b) An I3 dev anonymously commits the code on GitHub.
We can actually avoid all negative backlash if we frame this as "BitUSD allows OpenBazaar to attract non-drug users because they're the only people willing to put up with Bitcoins volatility". And it's true. OpenBazaar needs our product (or our competitors) if they want mainstream adoption and we need a solid showcase if WE want mainstream adoption. The good vastly outweighs the bad.
There it is.
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It's not worth trying to make multisig work at present. Multisig usability is very important and it getting it right will be part of our thin client / power wallet rearchitecture.
OB has a ton of hype and variety of users from every major crypto out their. BitUSD and OB is like peanut butter and jelly, there could be no better match. Not having multisig would be a deal breaker for OB integration.
If it is a matter of you and the team being to busy to complete the task I completely understand. Would crowd funding not be a option to have another party complete the task as a bounty?
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No not imo. I like the general strategy here & I see the value of pegged assets for that market but there's also significant negative mainstream PR & other blowback risk - Think public perception of Bitcoin & Silk Road + other outcomes. However BitAssets are out in the wild so nothing to stop other people using and integrating them.
I see your point but lets not forget the entire Bitcoin community is behind OpenBazaar. For the time being, it doesn't have a negative stigma; quite the opposite actually. All I3 has to do is make it easy for BitUSD to be integrated into an OB merchant node. That means improving multisig and eliminating any other obstacles that may get in the way. Once that's out of the way...
a) We crowdfund the necessary development.
OR
b) An I3 dev anonymously commits the code on GitHub.
We can actually avoid all negative backlash if we frame this as "BitUSD allows OpenBazaar to attract non-drug users because they're the only people willing to put up with Bitcoins volatility". And it's true. OpenBazaar needs our product (or our competitors) if they want mainstream adoption and we need a solid showcase if WE want mainstream adoption. The good vastly outweighs the bad.
There it is.
The Headline We'd Get: Open Bazaar and BitUSD help drug dealers hedge against crypto volitility
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No not imo. I like the general strategy here & I see the value of pegged assets for that market but there's also significant negative mainstream PR & other blowback risk - Think public perception of Bitcoin & Silk Road + other outcomes. However BitAssets are out in the wild so nothing to stop other people using and integrating them.
I see your point but lets not forget the entire Bitcoin community is behind OpenBazaar. For the time being, it doesn't have a negative stigma; quite the opposite actually. All I3 has to do is make it easy for BitUSD to be integrated into an OB merchant node. That means improving multisig and eliminating any other obstacles that may get in the way. Once that's out of the way...
a) We crowdfund the necessary development.
OR
b) An I3 dev anonymously commits the code on GitHub.
We can actually avoid all negative backlash if we frame this as "BitUSD allows OpenBazaar to attract non-drug users because they're the only people willing to put up with Bitcoins volatility". And it's true. OpenBazaar needs our product (or our competitors) if they want mainstream adoption and we need a solid showcase if WE want mainstream adoption. The good vastly outweighs the bad.
There it is.
The Headline We'd Get: Open Bazaar and BitUSD help drug dealers hedge against crypto volitility
If we're not demonized, the media must be ignoring us. Drug stories grab headlines, the best we can do is paint the right picture in marketing.
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Open bazaar is great but a small userbase that even if we grab 100% it would be insignificant in the next few years.
Bytemaster doesn't like this strategy because the userbase isn't big enough. He's mistaken for two reasons:
a) OpenBazaar hasn't launched yet but when they do, their userbase will grow rapidly (given the momentum behind the project).
b) Once successful on OpenBazaar, BitUSD will virally "jump" to other markets and services (important eyes are watching OpenBazaar).
The whole point of this strategy isn't to stay contained within the OpenBazaar ecosystem, just like PayPal isn't contained within eBays ecosystem. The point is to establish ourselves as THE stable crypto, get targeted attention and snowball from there.
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Open bazaar is great but a small userbase that even if we grab 100% it would be insignificant in the next few years.
Bytemaster doesn't like this strategy because the userbase isn't big enough. He's mistaken for two reasons:
a) OpenBazaar hasn't launched yet but when they do, their userbase will grow rapidly (given the momentum behind the project).
b) Once successful on OpenBazaar, BitUSD will virally "jump" to other markets and services (important eyes are watching OpenBazaar).
The whole point of this strategy isn't to stay contained within the OpenBazaar ecosystem, just like PayPal isn't contained within eBays ecosystem. The point is to establish ourselves as THE stable crypto, get targeted attention and snowball from there.
That post did come off somewhat arrogant, but I'm thinking/hoping that's just a combination of rushed response from Vegas and prioritizing gateways over this, rather than being against this entirely.
Prioritizing gateways will help this also, so that seems reasonable, but much of the infrastructure for this (like easy multisig support) will also help other potential partners. It sounds like OB is quite open and easy to work with, so I think integrating with them could provide a good model for other potential partners looking to support BitShares tech. Where it falls on the priority list is still in question, but it would certainly be nice to be integrated with their launch or shortly thereafter.
Do they have an ETA for going live?
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I agree ob is important and bitusd and keyid are both obvious and relatively easy to integrate. There is a ~1m usd dev fund and dns inflation which could be paid via bitusd. I've tried to contact ob devs but have no response. Facilitaing this seems like an opportunity open to just about anyone who is dedicated enough.
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here are some information how we could contribute
https://github.com/OpenBazaar/OpenBazaar/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md
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I agree ob is important and bitusd and keyid are both obvious and relatively easy to integrate. There is a ~1m usd dev fund and dns inflation which could be paid via bitusd. I've tried to contact ob devs but have no response. Facilitaing this seems like an opportunity open to just about anyone who is dedicated enough.
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Excellent. Could we create an "official" ob dev fund so when one of us gets the attention of their devs, we can entice them with a number?
And in other news, here's a dev response regarding Dogecoin, giving us a better picture.
Hey, thanks for your question. Right now, we only support bitcoin, but there is enough abstraction to allow for other altcoins to be used, including dogecoin. In particular, the current implementation requires the following features from the cryptocurrency used, all of which are supported by doge:
- 2-of-2 and 2-of-3 multisig ✓
- Proof-of-burn abilities ✓
- Ability to sign contracts using the cryptocurrency EC key ✓
While all of these are supported by doge and other altcoins such as litecoin, we are making use of certain APIs that don't play well with doge yet. These include Obelisk, blockchain.info, pybitcointools, etc.
So, to answer your question: Yes, this is possible to do, and we have enough abstraction to enable it. However, there are certain changes that need to be done in terms of libraries used, and this may require some time, so it's not a priority currently.
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Great - so can Toast and MeTHoDx conspire to make this happen?
MeTHoDx has made contact and is talented with PR; Toast is a similarly talented dev.
Myself and other forum members would likely contribute to a dev fund if needed.
Neat idea - BTSX account named 'OB Integration Fund'.
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There is no way for this to happen until the toolkit gets bitcoin-compatible multisig support (this would also allow any other devs to add bitUSD in escrow-based transactions).
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Myself and other forum members would likely contribute to a dev fund if needed.
Neat idea - BTSX account named 'OB Integration Fund'.
count me in!
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There is no way for this to happen until the toolkit gets bitcoin-compatible multisig support (this would also allow any other devs to add bitUSD in escrow-based transactions).
Hey pollux, thanks a bunch for doing the research necessary to make this happen.
1) Is "bitcoin-compatible" multisig any different than the multisig we already have planned?
2) Are there any other roadblocks we should be aware of?
Thanks again.
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1) Is "bitcoin-compatible" multisig any different than the multisig we already have planned?
I have not seen any plans. It isn't a lot of work, but getting it right is a matter of security and usability.
2) Are there any other roadblocks we should be aware of?
I am not as familiar with the technical implications of TITAN but adding multiple private key factors may lead to different solutions to privacy in the context of a multisig tx. I.e., you might need a pubkey for each participant rather than an account name. Other than that, I anticipate smooth sailing.
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OpenBazaar is obviously our good partner but OB is an anonymous trade platform, and I think that the virtual products will be main trade objects. so the market capacity will be small. anyhow, this is a possible approach to for BTS to grow up.
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OpenBazaar is obviously our good partner but OB is an anonymous trade platform, and I think that the virtual products will be main trade objects. so the market capacity will be small. anyhow, this is a possible approach to for BTS to grow up.
Virtual products will definitely not be the main items traded on OpenBazaar...
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While initially being very supportive of the bootstrap-bitusd-through-OB idea, due to recent developments and the merging of all DACs, I think it's better to focus on core development of bitshares, and then wait and see what OB turns out to be. If it turns out to be a massive hit, then we can spend our own resources on integrating bitUSD, and the issue shares to airdrop bitUSD on the OB userbase. If itsn't that quick to gain traction, we could instead choose the most promising devs it has and hire them to create our own bazaar system powered by bitshares.
It could run with bitcoin, bitUSD and BTS ensuring the bitcoiners will not go crazy and attack us for "stealing" their developers, since the improved bazaar would still have bitcoin integration. The added benefits that a DAC gives the bazaar system will likely make it grow incredibly fast, we could even issue BTS to pay for real world advertising for the initial sellers on the system, to help kickstart adoption. If bitcoiners saw first hand just how much bitshares is able to contribute positively to decentralized systems, and in this case even contribute to bitcoins utility, they will probably have an easier time getting over always attacking altcoins and bitshares.