BitShares Forum

Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: liondani on July 01, 2014, 12:54:36 am

Title: Stanford University Cryptography-Learn about the inner workings of cryptography
Post by: liondani on July 01, 2014, 12:54:36 am: (https://s3.amazonaws.com/coursera/topics/crypto2/small-icon.hover.png)

Interesting...

https://www.coursera.org/course/crypto (https://www.coursera.org/course/crypto)
Title: Re: Stanford University Cryptography-Learn about the inner workings of cryptography
Post by: xeroc on July 01, 2014, 07:12:26 am: you can expect a lot of 'strange' math such as calculations in galois fields, modulo operations, fourier transforms in fields ..

crypto math is tough .. but worth learning imho
Title: Re: Stanford University Cryptography-Learn about the inner workings of cryptography
Post by: luckybit on July 01, 2014, 08:24:33 pm: Quote from: liondani on July 01, 2014, 12:54:36 am
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/coursera/topics/crypto2/small-icon.hover.png)

Interesting...

https://www.coursera.org/course/crypto (https://www.coursera.org/course/crypto)

We need Dan Larimer to teach a class on DPoS and the blockchain.

At this point it's becoming so knowledge dense and centralized around so few people that it's wizardry even to experienced programmers.

Basic cryptography isn't really that difficult compared to the Bitcoin blockchain and I would say the Bitshares toolkit is significantly less complicated, but it's still complicated enough that most of us have only a high level conceptual understanding of it but not a low enough level of understanding to contribute code.
Title: Re: Stanford University Cryptography-Learn about the inner workings of cryptography
Post by: bitmeat on July 02, 2014, 01:06:23 am: Dan's whitepapers haven't been peer reviewed, have they? Furthermore these classes are taught by professors that teach in renown universities. I think it is best for Dan to do his thing and work on the toolkit. Teaching will not really buy us much.
Title: Re: Stanford University Cryptography-Learn about the inner workings of cryptography
Post by: toast on July 02, 2014, 01:32:14 am: Quote
Basic cryptography isn't really that difficult compared to the Bitcoin blockchain

I think that's 100% backwards.

Blockchains in general only use crypto 101 concepts. "Crypto" has been overloaded to mean cryptocurrency stuff when really the mathematics we use in our systems are barely scratching the surface of actual cryptography... "It hasn't been peer reviewed"?, more like "it has almost nothing to do with it to begin with"
Title: Re: Stanford University Cryptography-Learn about the inner workings of cryptography
Post by: toast on July 02, 2014, 01:33:23 am: Actually I suppose stealth addresses are a non-trivial cryptographic technique, might have to wait until halfway through the crypto 101 course to cover material of that difficulty
Title: Re: Stanford University Cryptography-Learn about the inner workings of cryptography
Post by: luckybit on July 02, 2014, 11:00:49 am: Quote from: crabbypattie on July 02, 2014, 01:06:23 am
Dan's whitepapers haven't been peer reviewed, have they? Furthermore these classes are taught by professors that teach in renown universities. I think it is best for Dan to do his thing and work on the toolkit. Teaching will not really buy us much.

If Bitshares X works then I would rather receive a lecture from Dan than from some professor who hasn't written anything like that. Teaching is the only way knowledge can be distributed so if Dan is a wizard he has to set something up so the world can understand what he made in detail.
Title: Re: Stanford University Cryptography-Learn about the inner workings of cryptography
Post by: luckybit on July 02, 2014, 11:10:10 am: Quote from: toast on July 02, 2014, 01:32:14 am
Quote
Basic cryptography isn't really that difficult compared to the Bitcoin blockchain

I think that's 100% backwards.

Blockchains in general only use crypto 101 concepts. "Crypto" has been overloaded to mean cryptocurrency stuff when really the mathematics we use in our systems are barely scratching the surface of actual cryptography... "It hasn't been peer reviewed"?, more like "it has almost nothing to do with it to begin with"

I guess it depends on which crypto techniques you're talking about. The stuff in that particular class doesn't look significantly difficult. I think the difference is that crypto is already invented and they are explaining algorithms which are old, problems which have been solved, there usually is a book you can look through to find all the math formulas you need.

Now you look at Bitshares and there is documentation, there is a systematic way to figure out how it works, and you're right the crypto parts are routine cryptography, but on a conceptual level and on understanding all the potential attack vectors I would say it's very hard.

You have a good argument when you say Bitshares may not be similar to Shor's algorithm or Shamir's secret sharing algorithm for instance. But if you look at a blockchain it does something unique which is not described in any book on computer science or cryptography really. I think people are underestimating the effort of building a functioning cryptocurrency from scratch, in my opinion the Cryptography 101 class is easier. I suppose the hardest parts would be the discrete probability math but if you can write the sort of code to make up Bitshares I would say compared to that it's trivially easy work.