BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: testz on June 17, 2014, 06:19:17 pm
-
Look interesting:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=653741.0
http://swarmcorp.com/
-
Yea, they want 21k BTC in the fundraising.....
Phase One consists of 4,000 Bitcoin; people participating on day one will receive 5,250 SWARM coin per Bitcoin. As more Bitcoins are received, the number of SWARM coin distributed will decrease to 4,750 until the end of Phase One. After a short cooling-off period, there will be a Phase Two with a 17,000 Bitcoins cap with a conversion rate of 4,250 SWARM coin, decreasing to 3,750 per Bitcoin until they are all gone.
-
Frontpage is full of hype, have to dig down for the details if there are some. They're more interested in getting $$ than talking about solutions it would appear.
You'll get close to the same rate of SWARM coins per BTC in phase 2, so it seems pretty easy to hold off for now.
I don't understand what sort of limitations their DAC/DAO/DAE/DAs will have relying on Counterparty. If anyone has thoughts on this, it would be interesting to hear.
-
You have to be an idiot to invest in this
-
You have to be an idiot to invest in this
Agree, but http://www.safecoin.io/ (http://maidsafe.net/) show us how many peoples like to invest to something :)
-
The first interview in this Beyond Bitcoin podcast is about this:
http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/beyond-bitcoin-4-money-memes-the-coming-swarm (http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/beyond-bitcoin-4-money-memes-the-coming-swarm)
-
Looks like a big nothing burger from what I see at the moment, judging from the comments on the bitcointalk thread so far looks like most people agree.
-
Let’s ask our own Adam B Levine why he supports the project.
-
Yea, they want 21k BTC in the fundraising.....
Phase One consists of 4,000 Bitcoin; people participating on day one will receive 5,250 SWARM coin per Bitcoin. As more Bitcoins are received, the number of SWARM coin distributed will decrease to 4,750 until the end of Phase One. After a short cooling-off period, there will be a Phase Two with a 17,000 Bitcoins cap with a conversion rate of 4,250 SWARM coin, decreasing to 3,750 per Bitcoin until they are all gone.
They have really good appetite.
-
Let’s ask our own Adam B Levine why he supports the project.
because of counterparty (xcp) ?
-
The funny thing about this when I glanced earlier they talked about "pre-mines" then go on to justify it. Well they're not even "pre-mining". They're selling all their coins and keeping 8% as a "premine." ROFL. It is basically all a "premine", whether they keep 8% or 50%, does it matter when you are selling all the rest of the coins ?!? Absurd.
8% of the holdings goes to the Swarm reserves, which is split between founders, swarm representatives, and bounties for specific projects. We wanted to avoid a large pre-mine, since that creates misaligned incentives: https://gist.github.com/fractastical/b236024cd106e97b38d0. That said, we thought if there was no pre-mine then founders and early contributors would have less incentive to see the project to completion. We hope we've reached a healthy balance.
What?? What about paying the founders/reps/bounties with the BTC gained from the crowdsale ? I'm totally confused. The guy wanting to raise 10 million + basically laughs his way through the interview on Beyond Bitcoin Show on LTB Network #4.
-
Let’s ask our own Adam B Levine why he supports the project.
because of counterparty (xcp) ?
Because he has no idea what he is talking about...
-
Let’s ask our own Adam B Levine why he supports the project.
because of counterparty (xcp) ?
Because he has no idea what he is talking about...
Hoping I do not come across as an a hole for sayin this, but I wonder if adam will say anything about this "unfair distribution method" like he does for bts ...even with the messed up mining launch of pts, it is still more "fair" than this..
-
Let’s ask our own Adam B Levine why he supports the project.
because of counterparty (xcp) ?
Because he has no idea what he is talking about...
Hoping I do not come across as an a hole for sayin this, but I wonder if adam will say anything about this "unfair distribution method" like he does for bts ...even with the messed up mining launch of pts, it is still more "fair" than this..
What are you talking about – there is no concept of fair distribution in scam – there those that are scammed and those that aren’t. Among those scammed there is distinction only for the amount each of them is scammed for. In math terms 0/n =0, everybody got same part =0, the distinction is only how much each paid for his nothing…
There are more facts than those mentioned in this thread screaming scam, but I feel too lazy this morning to writhe about them.
-
have the same feeling... first scenario to pay only employees... lol lol and lol again
Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 997D using Tapatalk
-
The btc address they listed received 727 BTC when I checked just now. Why they said 25% of 4500 BTC on website.
Also they moved btc almost instantaneously after confirmed to other addresses, any reason?
-
Because it is a scam. it has said 25% since yesterday...
-
The btc address they listed received 727 BTC when I checked just now. Why they said 25% of 4500 BTC on website.
Also they moved btc almost instantaneously after confirmed to other addresses, any reason?
Exactly that + there are already sell orders better than the IPO price (hell better than the IPO price ever was -5600 swarms/BTC)
-
Look the scenarios... lol
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yyjVP1FTDy8/U6GoAPYjJlI/AAAAAAAAC38/dH3mFfXsWQo/s1600/Screenshot+2014-06-18+17.50.52.png)
-
'I can't wait to see what they do next' Adam B L
I am curious too.
-
Feels like we are in the Wild West of cyberspace
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
'I can't wait to see what they do next' Adam B L
I am curious too.
I would be curious too if I had "invest"...
-
Recent Ethereum connection !
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=653568.msg7411878#msg7411878
What I find interesting (if the post is indeed true) is that after the ex Invictus CEO leaves a particular company it seems that said company follows with large IPO/money collection activities of no small size…
-
call me crazy, but for some reason I can't really explain my gut told me to pick up a hundred swarm shares just in case, in spite of the fact that all logic makes this look like a scam. so i did. *fingers crossed*
-
I just skipped through the website, the OP on BTT and the coindesk article http://www.coindesk.com/swarm-take-bitcoin-crowdfunding-new-heights/. As far as I got it it is supposed be a crowd based VC company for "Bitcoin business ideas" (of chain or on chain businesses or both?). They take the money from the investors in swarmcoin and invest it in those businesses.
Did anybody pick up something different?
The questions for me are:
1) How does the crowd assesment process work? Does the Swarm team make a preselection and all Swarmcoin holders (proportional to their stake size?) then vote on which business to fund?
3) Why give money to swarm if I can invest it into Andreessen/Horowitz?
4) If a business is funded, do Swarmcoin holders only get a standard fee that is charged or do Swarmcoin holders get a stake in the funded business like an investor in a VC fund would get if a VC company funds a business?
4) I strongly assume the latte is the case. If so: How can I be SURE that all the equity in the company that Swarm gets for their "VC money" they give to the business goes ALL to the Swarm holders? Is there a trustless process of verifying that the Swarm team didn't make a deal with the funded business so they get an extra cut?
5) What about the legal issues addressed in the coin desk article? Contingency plan?
6) How far is the platform away form (full) functionality (in weeks/month not in % :) )?
Crossposted: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=653568.msg7464985#msg7464985
-
call me crazy, but for some reason I can't really explain my gut told me to pick up a hundred swarm shares just in case, in spite of the fact that all logic makes this look like a scam. so i did. *fingers crossed*
Did the same thing. After the "I crowdfunded Oculus Rift and all I got was this lousy T-shirt" this could perhaps be a thing. I kissed my investment goodbye and expect nothing at all though. Bought the shares only as a means to insure myself against possible success.
-
tonyk
Sr. Member
Posts: 352
Re: [FYI] SWARM project will be livestreaming its crowdsale launch! Monday 6/16 8pm
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2014, 05:40:03 PM »
Quote
Recent Ethereum connection !
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=653568.msg7411878#msg7411878
What I find interesting (if the post is indeed true) is that after the ex Invictus CEO leaves a particular company it seems that said company follows with large IPO/money collection activities of no small size…
This is pure fud. I had nothing to do with swarm and consider Joel to be an unstable idiot with limited respect for the law. I spent months of my life in Switzerland and with countless lawyers studying how coin swaps should be interpreted under the howey test and forming an SRO. Dan and his term alone are responsible for angel shares. I would have never endorsed something so reckless in the back yard of the us.
Think before you write idiocy
-
tonyk
Sr. Member
Posts: 352
Re: [FYI] SWARM project will be livestreaming its crowdsale launch! Monday 6/16 8pm
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2014, 05:40:03 PM »
Quote
Recent Ethereum connection !
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=653568.msg7411878#msg7411878
What I find interesting (if the post is indeed true) is that after the ex Invictus CEO leaves a particular company it seems that said company follows with large IPO/money collection activities of no small size…
This is pure fud. I had nothing to do with swarm and consider Joel to be an unstable idiot with limited respect for the law. I spent months of my life in Switzerland and with countless lawyers studying how coin swaps should be interpreted under the howey test and forming an SRO. Dan and his term alone are responsible for angel shares. I would have never endorsed something so reckless in the back yard of the us.
Think before you write idiocy
I didn't get the impresiion he was slurring you in any way. If anything it calls into attention the motives of others, not yours.
-
tonyk
Sr. Member
Posts: 352
Re: [FYI] SWARM project will be livestreaming its crowdsale launch! Monday 6/16 8pm
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2014, 05:40:03 PM »
Quote
Recent Ethereum connection !
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=653568.msg7411878#msg7411878
What I find interesting (if the post is indeed true) is that after the ex Invictus CEO leaves a particular company it seems that said company follows with large IPO/money collection activities of no small size…
This is pure fud. I had nothing to do with swarm and consider Joel to be an unstable idiot with limited respect for the law. I spent months of my life in Switzerland and with countless lawyers studying how coin swaps should be interpreted under the howey test and forming an SRO. Dan and his term alone are responsible for angel shares. I would have never endorsed something so reckless in the back yard of the us.
Think before you write idiocy
I didn't get the impresiion he was slurring you in any way. If anything it calls into attention the motives of others, not yours.
If anything it calls into attention the motives of others, not yours
At least that was my intention!
-
tonyk
Sr. Member
Posts: 352
Re: [FYI] SWARM project will be livestreaming its crowdsale launch! Monday 6/16 8pm
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2014, 05:40:03 PM »
Quote
Recent Ethereum connection !
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=653568.msg7411878#msg7411878
What I find interesting (if the post is indeed true) is that after the ex Invictus CEO leaves a particular company it seems that said company follows with large IPO/money collection activities of no small size…
This is pure fud. I had nothing to do with swarm and consider Joel to be an unstable idiot with limited respect for the law. I spent months of my life in Switzerland and with countless lawyers studying how coin swaps should be interpreted under the howey test and forming an SRO. Dan and his term alone are responsible for angel shares. I would have never endorsed something so reckless in the back yard of the us.
Think before you write idiocy
If you think that, you leaving, MIGHT signal your disagreement with this move is extremely idiotic, I apologize.
I just keep in high regard people who are able to do so. If you think I am idiot for thinking you might have such noble reasons, I apologize
-
If you think that, you leaving, MIGHT signal your disagreement with this move is extremely idiotic, I apologize.
I just keep in high regard people who are able to do so. If you think I am idiot for thinking you might have such noble reasons, I apologize
There were two ways to read your statement and due to the sensitive legal nature of these fundraisers I had to make sure it is absolutely clear that I have no involvement in Swarm nor any other token swap fundraiser. I apologize if I was harsh.
-
There were two ways to read your statement and due to the sensitive legal nature of these fundraisers I had to make sure it is absolutely clear that I have no involvement in Swarm nor any other token swap fundraiser. I apologize if I was harsh.
Unfortunately, there is only one way to read yours…
Think before you write idiocy
So indeed, follow your own advice next time, and think/ask before writing… If apologies are not your strong suit!
-
The amazing bitshares community at work! See everyone? THIS is why you should pay 20% of your money supply to use the Bitshares toolkit, what an amazing deal.
-
The amazing bitshares community at work! See everyone? THIS is why you should pay 20% of your money supply to use the Bitshares toolkit, what an amazing deal.
I am better off fight over misunderstandings all day long and even burning my money, than giving it to some of the projects you support - like swarm…
[edit] 'better off fight over misunderstandings all day long and even'
[edit] 'be' added.
-
The amazing bitshares community at work! See everyone? THIS is why you should pay 20% of your money supply to use the Bitshares toolkit, what an amazing deal.
Do you have anything to say but be a troll ? I remember a few weeks ago you complaining about your donations taking too long due to PTS problems. Now PTS problems are a great place to start pointing out the mistakes of I3, but it demonstrated you were clearly still donating. What other projects do you use your real name to just constantly troll ? Surely we should see this behavior from you elsewhere or I would think something is going on.....
So TonyK says something you don't agree with and you somehow tie it into the "Bitshares community" as a whole. Then you somehow tie that into the funding model which as of a few weeks ago you appeared to still be supporting.
Huge jumps in logical thinking afoot.
-
The reasons you call me a troll, have they become concerns for anyone else in the Bitshares community? Yep....
So I don't have to spend my time saying it. Invictus has made the wrong choices and not been very humble in doing so, that's not a problem I caused and it's not one you getting mad at me can fix.
-
The reasons you call me a troll, have they become concerns for anyone else in the Bitshares community? Yep....
So I don't have to spend my time saying it. Invictus has made the wrong choices and not been very humble in doing so, that's not a problem I caused and it's not one you getting mad at me can fix.
you admit you are a troll
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
The amazing bitshares community at work! See everyone? THIS is why you should pay 20% of your money supply to use the Bitshares toolkit, what an amazing deal.
Do you have anything to say but be a troll ? I remember a few weeks ago you complaining about your donations taking too long due to PTS problems. Now PTS problems are a great place to start pointing out the mistakes of I3, but it demonstrated you were clearly still donating. What other projects do you use your real name to just constantly troll ? Surely we should see this behavior from you elsewhere or I would think something is going on.....
So TonyK says something you don't agree with and you somehow tie it into the "Bitshares community" as a whole. Then you somehow tie that into the funding model which as of a few weeks ago you appeared to still be supporting.
Huge jumps in logical thinking afoot.
Gamey, let him enjoy his miserable troy life while he can and be happy that ‘things need to be clarified or smoothed’ as the biggest problem of the Bitshares community. Pretty soon the people that took the big money will be gone and he will be the only one available to blame, be he ‘stupid promoter’ or real scammer. Then and there he will have his real problem at hand… it will not take long…. let him enjoy what is left till then.
-
The amazing bitshares community at work! See everyone? THIS is why you should pay 20% of your money supply to use the Bitshares toolkit, what an amazing deal.
I am better off fight over misunderstandings all day long and even burning my money, than giving it to some of the projects you support - like swarm…
[edit] 'better off fight over misunderstandings all day long and even'
[edit] 'be' added.
Wonderful! I have complete control over tonyk's investment decisions! My power grows....
lol, seriously - Why do you think I care who you give your money to? Aren't you one of the people here who has flat out said they put all their investable funds into Angelshares, and thus were "all in"?
-
Any criticism of Invictus is designated "troll" by the faithful choir of the forum (hey guys! it's been a while).
I'm only here waiting for the delegate situation to become clear to me, and of course to watch you guys laying out the welcome matt for concerned to-this-point silent investors.
-
Even YOU just cannot have it both ways Adam, either my criticism is bad or we are all ‘hooray, hooray ‘… chose your lane.
-
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQsmHbKCOGcEEHTQYJiTIwVn5ACrDhPQ1_KlACORzTu6jnuSfOQAQ)
-
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQsmHbKCOGcEEHTQYJiTIwVn5ACrDhPQ1_KlACORzTu6jnuSfOQAQ)
I agree. ABL is a terror
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Umm, no. Criticism that is grounded in reality is fine. You don't like that I'm critical of Invictus and you certainly don't like that now many people are coming out of the woodwork echoing those things I've been complaining about for six months now.
I'm sorry you don't like how I talk, but I've lost my patience after for months trying to help Invictus avoid these exact problems. You'll notice today Stan admitted that they should have followed my guidance and NOT gone from 10% allocated of BTS (PTS original plan) to 100% allocated (PTS/AGS) plan. But at the time they were ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that nothing would go wrong, so why leave buffer when you can maximize for the shareholders. Now, the delegate system is FUCKED because the pie is all allocated and so we're talking about moving to an INFLATIONARY system after daniel made this gigantic stink about how wasteful mining is and how we're smarter and can do it for free.
I get that you, like many, are all in. Just because you are doesn't mean the rest of us need to stick our heads in the ground like idiots and pretend things are going well. They're not. Invictus is WAY behind and that is assuming there are no more unknown unknowns that jump out and cause the system to be thrown out as TAPOS was before it.
-
I do not like many things in I3 and I say them publicly with a hope they will change for better!
Let me tell you what I really do not like:
-Starting an IPO for 10 MIL US Dollars;
-Giving no clue what the company will actually do(not with the money, in general);
-Appearing on the 3rd day and saying – 'Sorry for the delay, I was drunk from the IPO party 3 days ago';
-Disappearing again with hardly any explanations…
and you should not like those things more than me – your name is on their joke of a site…
PS I think I am done with this topic.
[edit] added 'do'
-
The reasons you call me a troll, have they become concerns for anyone else in the Bitshares community? Yep....
So I don't have to spend my time saying it. Invictus has made the wrong choices and not been very humble in doing so, that's not a problem I caused and it's not one you getting mad at me can fix.
I am attacking your approach and posting patterns. I have no idea what you think a better funding method would be to maintain open source funding + 100% legality and not fall under the purview of the SEC/law. You attacked the whole Bitshares community over one person. Layering 2 ad hominems on top of each other to reach your point. This is typical for you. Do you even know what an ad hominem is ? You can not take any direct criticism, you always deflect it. You used your appeal to authority with me. ie. I'm a "random" and therefore you didn't care what I said. (lol ... fair enough, but childish and illogical to the extreme..)
"Not humble".. What does that even mean ? Dan takes criticism and invites people to debate/discuss things with him. Why would it ever matter if they are humble or not ? Apparently you used a different name before and they ignored you. Ohh boo hoo. Did you ever think maybe your ideas were just inferior? I'm not being mad, just honestly asking you. I wont' get an answer. You'll deflect by yet another logic fallacy. Good grief.
-
I do not like many things in I3 and I say them publicly with a hope they will change for better!
Let me tell you what I really do not like:
-Starting an IPO for 10 MIL US Dollars;
-Giving no clue what the company will actually do(not with the money, in general);
-Appearing on the 3rd day and saying – 'Sorry for the delay, I was drunk from the IPO party 3 days ago';
-Disappearing again with hardly any explanations…
and you should not like those things more than me – your name is on their joke of a site…
PS I think I am done with this topic.
[edit] added 'do'
-Starting an IPO for 10 MIL US Dollars;
So you don't like that they set a maximum funding goal as well as a minimum funding goal. This contrasts to Invictus which did not set a maximum funding goal or a minimum funding goal. Why is this something evil for swarm to do and fine for Invictus to do? What exactly is evil about setting an ambitious maximum funding goal? Remember, that's the point at which they say they will stop taking money from people, not some arbitrary amount being demanded.
-Giving no clue what the company will actually do(not with the money, in general);
If you don't know what the company does, you shouldn't invest. Nobody is forcing anybody, what exactly is the problem? Swarm is pretty clear about what they are, they are a crowdfunding platform that generates custom tokens for projects. If you buy the Swarm token, whenever a project launches on the swarm platform 1% of the tokens (or it might be 1.5%, not looking at numbers) are distributed to all holders of swarm tokens... just like protoshares, except they actually have the tech ready and are doing it. If you have a problem with swarms concept, you should have a big problem with Invictus because Protoshares IS THE SAME THING except Invictus decides where all the money goes and it doesnt look like they've done a very good job. If your concern is that you can't understand it, are you saying that they should have this all together when you do not expect the same from Invictus? Ask a new person if AGS/PTS/BTS/BTS_X/BTS_ME is clear, it's not. Swarm at least hasn't created a giant hairball of confusion, they just have initial "what is that" confusion. Do you really want to argue this point?
-Appearing on the 3rd day and saying – 'Sorry for the delay, I was drunk from the IPO party 3 days ago';
.....this is really a point you want to hang your hat on? Things are confusing in early days, I would assume you'd be sympathetic.
-Disappearing again with hardly any explanations…
Unless you do something crazy like email them at their advertised email addresses, skype the founder, join their hipchat, etc. etc. again do you really want to argue about communication competency?
and you should not like those things more than me – your name is on their joke of a site…
I already gave them shit for not being understanding of a confused guy who came into their chat, yelled a bunch and got himself kicked. It was the wrong thing to do and they'll suffer his hate for it. My name is on the site because I believe crowdfunding is an exceptionally important area that cryptocurrency is just about to disrupt, and Swarm is an ambitious attempt executing towards that vision. That's the quote I have on the site, I'm totally comfortable with my exposure. I'm not part of the company, they've never paid me any money and they've listened when I cautioned them about things like releasing the token without attaching any value to it (which eventually wound up being the 1% distribution).
Of course you're done with the topic, I'm asking you to back up your hate with some actual data and all you've got is that you want Invictus to succeed and anyone pointing out the reasons why that chance is slipping away are the enemy. You are blinded by your investment, and your behavior is to the detriment of the entire community you wish to protect.
-
Umm, no. Criticism that is grounded in reality is fine. You don't like that I'm critical of Invictus and you certainly don't like that now many people are coming out of the woodwork echoing those things I've been complaining about for six months now.
I'm sorry you don't like how I talk, but I've lost my patience after for months trying to help Invictus avoid these exact problems. You'll notice today Stan admitted that they should have followed my guidance and NOT gone from 10% allocated of BTS (PTS original plan) to 100% allocated (PTS/AGS) plan. But at the time they were ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that nothing would go wrong, so why leave buffer when you can maximize for the shareholders. Now, the delegate system is FUCKED because the pie is all allocated and so we're talking about moving to an INFLATIONARY system after daniel made this gigantic stink about how wasteful mining is and how we're smarter and can do it for free.
I get that you, like many, are all in. Just because you are doesn't mean the rest of us need to stick our heads in the ground like idiots and pretend things are going well. They're not. Invictus is WAY behind and that is assuming there are no more unknown unknowns that jump out and cause the system to be thrown out as TAPOS was before it.
Your narcissism shows in this post, but at least it is grounded in reality. They've made mistakes and I'm sure they'll continue to make mistakes. I'll actually even go as far to ask what do you mean, the "original plan" was 10% of BTS ? What were BTS ? I'm actually lost. That is one thing I do like about your posts though, is you have been around longer than a lot of us and do bring in some historical stuff.
You complain about the pie being all allocated, but you also wanted them to give some very large amount of PTS to a winner take all bounty IIRC. Mining is stupid in the longrun. If it can be avoided, it needs to be avoided. I'd hate to have to rely on GPU miners to stay on a chain. They're going to have to get paid somehow to stick around. Even if we are back to an inflationary model, it is a model that has a huge market incentive to keep this inflation rate down. So the DAC gets value from the inflation. This value is in the form of network security AND whatever the market/capitalists come up with to become elected. Also, the nice thing is the inflation rate is always up to the DAC creator. The inflation is not to help I3, it is to help the DACs. But you have this simplistic look at the whole thing... so we're going to have to listen to it. It is still an improvement over mining unless the whole thing fails.
-
-Appearing on the 3rd day and saying – 'Sorry for the delay, I was drunk from the IPO party 3 days ago';
.....this is really a point you want to hang your hat on? Things are confusing in early days, I would assume you'd be sympathetic.
I am really sympathetic – I have my share of drinking problems… I can only imagine how drunk will I get when I have scammed people for 10 Mil and have to do no work for it… really drunk like 3 day total obliviation…
-
Sorry, I have enjoyed this but you had a good call - I've got dinner and a movie, cheers!
-
I've got dinner and a movie, cheers!
... West cost then, like your swarm friends...
do not forget to wave them when they launch... the escape boat that is!
-
ABL wisely ignores me so I don't think I will get an answer from him. Although he has to have read my posts and is halfway to the moon wanting to respond to me. ;) Anyway, I like Adam and nothing personal at the end of the day.
If you buy the Swarm token, whenever a project launches on the swarm platform 1% of the tokens (or it might be 1.5%, not looking at numbers) are distributed to all holders of swarm tokens... just like protoshares, except they actually have the tech ready and are doing it.
So this Swarm having the tech ready and are doing it... Does anyone know more about this? I read their frontpage and it looked like another IPO trying to do the same thing already. I'm not sure what it means to have something working. Forked code? Is it from scratch? At what level are they functioning at ? Does anyone know ? Where can I see the code in action?
I want to be shown I was wrong... or I guess I could go to their webpage.
-
I guess I could go to their webpage.
Absolutely, it will tell you all you need to know :D
-
ABL wisely ignores me so I don't think I will get an answer from him. Although he has to have read my posts and is halfway to the moon wanting to respond to me. ;) Anyway, I like Adam and nothing personal at the end of the day.
If you buy the Swarm token, whenever a project launches on the swarm platform 1% of the tokens (or it might be 1.5%, not looking at numbers) are distributed to all holders of swarm tokens... just like protoshares, except they actually have the tech ready and are doing it.
So this Swarm having the tech ready and are doing it... Does anyone know more about this? I read their frontpage and it looked like another IPO trying to do the same thing already. I'm not sure what it means to have something working. Forked code? Is it from scratch? At what level are they functioning at ? Does anyone know ? Where can I see the code in action?
I want to be shown I was wrong... or I guess I could go to their webpage.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=653568.msg7466137#msg7466137
The guy on BTT (i guess he represents swarm) said they are 3 month away from a working product. See his answers to my questions.
-
-Appearing on the 3rd day and saying – 'Sorry for the delay, I was drunk from the IPO party 3 days ago';
.....this is really a point you want to hang your hat on? Things are confusing in early days, I would assume you'd be sympathetic.
I am really sympathetic – I have my share of drinking problems… I can only imagine how drunk will I get when I have scammed people for 10 Mil and have to do no work for it… really drunk like 3 day total obliviation…
You realize that unless you're closely paying attention, most people in the crypto space think Bitshares is an out and out scam, right? It's just blowing my mind you can be so blind to the irony.
Let me show you what Invictus looks like from the outside, this was in the swarm skype chat.
[6/24/2014 10:06:03 AM] Niceplum: Adam B. Levine, I spent 20+ hrs researching bitshares, its a ponzi
[6/24/2014 10:06:08 AM] Adam B. Levine: it's really not
[6/24/2014 10:06:08 AM] Adam B. Levine: lol
[6/24/2014 10:06:12 AM] Joel Dietz (SWARM Agent X) : it's a bad joke wishing that it was a ponzi
[6/24/2014 10:06:13 AM] Niceplum: time will tell
[6/24/2014 10:06:17 AM] Adam B. Levine: I would agree with Joel
[6/24/2014 10:06:30 AM] Niceplum: how does it expect to give people back more money
[6/24/2014 10:06:32 AM] Niceplum: if they buy BitUSD
[6/24/2014 10:06:35 AM] Niceplum: and then convert back
[6/24/2014 10:06:47 AM] Adam B. Levine: that's not the majority of the bitshares project
[6/24/2014 10:06:59 AM] Adam B. Levine: the interesting part is the underlying technology they've reinvented
[6/24/2014 10:07:02 AM] Niceplum: no, but that is a ponzi
[6/24/2014 10:07:07 AM] Adam B. Levine: no, that is a confidence game
[6/24/2014 10:07:12 AM | Edited 10:07:14 AM] Adam B. Levine: a ponzi implies there is a guy named ponzi
[6/24/2014 10:07:14 AM] Niceplum: which technology?
[6/24/2014 10:07:20 AM] Adam B. Levine: delegated proof of stake
[6/24/2014 10:07:23 AM] Niceplum: where
[6/24/2014 10:07:26 AM] Adam B. Levine: they're on alpha chain 5
[6/24/2014 10:07:32 AM] Niceplum: source?
[6/24/2014 10:07:38 AM] Adam B. Levine: bitsharestalk.com
[6/24/2014 10:07:41 AM] Adam B. Levine: good luck
[6/24/2014 10:07:44 AM] Adam B. Levine: :)
[6/24/2014 10:07:48 AM] Niceplum: actual source?
[6/24/2014 10:07:51 AM] Niceplum: is it on there
[6/24/2014 10:07:55 AM] Adam B. Levine: yeah hang on
[6/24/2014 10:08:40 AM] Adam B. Levine: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5250.0
[6/24/2014 10:09:45 AM] Adam B. Levine: both NXT and Bitshares are really attacking confirmation times, which things like msc and xcp demonstrate are quite long in the bitcoin paradigm where blocks occasionally take an hour
[6/24/2014 10:09:58 AM] Adam B. Levine: it didnt used to matter
[6/24/2014 10:10:16 AM] Adam B. Levine: but now when actions are only as granular as how long it takes for it to be included in a block, suddenly it's a lifetime
[6/24/2014 10:10:43 AM] Niceplum: BitShares isn't a cryptocurrency though, how is it possible to compare them
[6/24/2014 10:10:50 AM] Adam B. Levine: how can you say that?
[6/24/2014 10:11:16 AM] Niceplum: because the whitepaper defines it as a decentralized for-profit bank?
[6/24/2014 10:11:33 AM | Edited 10:11:39 AM] Adam B. Levine: that's like saying bitcoin isn't a cryptocurrency because its whitepaper defines it as decentralized cash
[6/24/2014 10:11:50 AM] orperelman: lol
[6/24/2014 10:11:52 AM] Adam B. Levine: cryptocurrency is a broad categorical classificaiton having to do with how the network actually works, not what it calls itself
[6/24/2014 10:12:08 AM] Niceplum: well then its not decentralized cash
[6/24/2014 10:12:28 AM] Adam B. Levine: it's a token that can be transmitted irrevocably to any network connected terminal
[6/24/2014 10:12:37 AM] Adam B. Levine: call it what you, that's a token and tokens are cryptocurrencies
[6/24/2014 10:12:48 AM] Niceplum: irrevocably? but isn't that against the idea of TaPOS
[6/24/2014 10:12:52 AM] Adam B. Levine: unless you're talking about the kind you hold in your hand
[6/24/2014 10:12:56 AM] Niceplum: where people vote whats valid and not
[6/24/2014 10:12:58 AM] Adam B. Levine: TaPOS was thrown out
[6/24/2014 10:13:07 AM] Adam B. Levine: :)
[6/24/2014 10:13:12 AM] Adam B. Levine: this is DPOS
[6/24/2014 10:13:18 AM] Niceplum: DPOS?
[6/24/2014 10:13:21 AM] Adam B. Levine: TaPOS was (Transactions as Proof of Stake)
[6/24/2014 10:13:28 AM] Adam B. Levine: DPOS is Delegated Proof of Stake
[6/24/2014 10:13:36 AM] Niceplum: which means?
[6/24/2014 10:13:43 AM] Adam B. Levine: Feel free to read up on it
[6/24/2014 10:13:52 AM] Adam B. Levine: github link is in the thread linked earlier
[6/24/2014 10:13:55 AM] Niceplum: its not transparent forging is it
[6/24/2014 10:14:00 AM] Adam B. Levine: it seems similar
[6/24/2014 10:14:20 AM] Adam B. Levine: but its not based on your stake, its based on the stake people throw behind you based on transparent performance
[6/24/2014 10:14:52 AM] Adam B. Levine: votes are cast automatically I believe for the best performing delegates judged by transaction inclusion rate, long term consistency, etc
[6/24/2014 10:15:03 AM] Adam B. Levine: but i am not an expert on this at all
[6/24/2014 10:15:32 AM] Niceplum: massive house of cards
[6/24/2014 10:15:43 AM] Adam B. Levine: just a guy who has been watching and talking with and yelling at the larimer folks to know they might look like a ponzi, but really they're just engineers who have no desire or ability to control optics
[6/24/2014 10:16:05 AM] Adam B. Levine: you're making me want to defend them just because I don't think you actually know what you're talking about, and that's odd because I"m quite annoyed with them.
[6/24/2014 10:16:21 AM] Adam B. Levine: if you have specific complaints please make them, don't just throw mud
[6/24/2014 10:17:31 AM] Niceplum: it cannot remain decentralized indefinitely, but I'll leave it to someone more technically knowledgable to argument that
[6/24/2014 10:18:04 AM] Niceplum: brb
[6/24/2014 10:18:32 AM] Adam B. Levine: happy to chat with you seperately, I really don't get how you can say definitive things like "cannot" when that's true of ANY of these protocols, they can all be modified should the need be there so again it's like saying it's not cryptocurrency. Why this over all others?
[6/24/2014 10:18:45 AM] Adam B. Levine: ;)
[6/24/2014 10:18:52 AM] Adam B. Levine: Incidentally your interview is running on Saturday
[6/24/2014 10:24:03 AM] Michael Sullivan: Are delegates secure?
[6/24/2014 10:25:45 AM] Michael Sullivan: Bitshares may finally be on right track, hard to know. But yeah it's been frustrating trying to keep up with the dev and tech branding over the past year.
[6/24/2014 10:31:16 AM | Edited 10:31:21 AM] Adam B. Levine: I've got a technical friend looking at the delegate requirements right now, I might wind up being the face of a few while he runs the technical stuff on the backend. It's an interesting approach, complete transparency does in fact make it quite hard to cheat
[6/24/2014 10:31:27 AM] Adam B. Levine: (for more than one instance)
[6/24/2014 10:36:20 AM] Niceplum: isn't the whole result of proof of stake that the rich get richer?
[6/24/2014 10:38:08 AM] Janislav: it is not different than with bitcoin. rich people buy a lot of miners and get richer
[6/24/2014 10:39:23 AM] Adam B. Levine: right, the problem isn't how you get your resources but rather that some people have more resources than others
[6/24/2014 10:39:43 AM] Adam B. Levine: This is another thing invictus tried to address, Protoshares was supposed to be CPU minable only and worked best on CPUs
[6/24/2014 10:39:57 AM] Adam B. Levine: problem is, someone with money can just rent a bunch of servers from amazon by the hour and min/max, just like with any other way
[6/24/2014 10:40:08 AM] Adam B. Levine: So the problem is that "stake" is capital-scalable, rather than human-scalable
[6/24/2014 10:40:46 AM] Adam B. Levine: really what we want is as broad an even a distribution on a human level as possible, but there's no proof-of-unique-human yet that's easy and cheap and pervasive, so here we are
[6/24/2014 10:43:23 AM] Niceplum: well, it will require some form of reputation system which assumes a consensus
[6/24/2014 10:43:38 AM] Adam B. Levine: yep, so it won't happen
[6/24/2014 10:43:50 AM] Niceplum: exactly
[6/24/2014 10:43:59 AM] Adam B. Levine: thus, everybody does everything - Many of us watch them all, and whatever works we'll cannabilize
I'm clearly your enemy, and invictus is doing a fantastic job.
-
lift yourselves! ye are like gods within
-
I'm clearly your enemy, and invictus is doing a fantastic job.
Still you are educating others about our goals and techniques .. and you are doing great explaining it!
Unfortunately those guys seem to have no interest in constructive feedback .. otherwise they would join the discussion over here and not on a private skype chat.
Maybe one more thing: they issue with stake in several other systems (best example is NXT) is that the stakes are not fairly distributed .. sure bitshares stakes are also not fairly distributed (i guess) but your surely agree that we have a much wider distribution of stake than any other proof-of-stake crypto such as peercoin/blackcoin/darkcoin and others.
That's maybe one of the big advantages we have over here.
BTW. we have initiated contact with freenode admins to recover the already registered #bitshares channel ..
-
-Appearing on the 3rd day and saying – 'Sorry for the delay, I was drunk from the IPO party 3 days ago';
.....this is really a point you want to hang your hat on? Things are confusing in early days, I would assume you'd be sympathetic.
I am really sympathetic – I have my share of drinking problems… I can only imagine how drunk will I get when I have scammed people for 10 Mil and have to do no work for it… really drunk like 3 day total obliviation…
You realize that unless you're closely paying attention, most people in the crypto space think Bitshares is an out and out scam, right? It's just blowing my mind you can be so blind to the irony.
Let me show you what Invictus looks like from the outside, this was in the swarm skype chat.
[6/24/2014 10:06:03 AM] Niceplum: Adam B. Levine, I spent 20+ hrs researching bitshares, its a ponzi
[6/24/2014 10:06:08 AM] Adam B. Levine: it's really not
[6/24/2014 10:06:08 AM] Adam B. Levine: lol
[6/24/2014 10:06:12 AM] Joel Dietz (SWARM Agent X) : it's a bad joke wishing that it was a ponzi
[6/24/2014 10:06:13 AM] Niceplum: time will tell
[6/24/2014 10:06:17 AM] Adam B. Levine: I would agree with Joel
[6/24/2014 10:06:30 AM] Niceplum: how does it expect to give people back more money
[6/24/2014 10:06:32 AM] Niceplum: if they buy BitUSD
[6/24/2014 10:06:35 AM] Niceplum: and then convert back
[6/24/2014 10:06:47 AM] Adam B. Levine: that's not the majority of the bitshares project
[6/24/2014 10:06:59 AM] Adam B. Levine: the interesting part is the underlying technology they've reinvented
[6/24/2014 10:07:02 AM] Niceplum: no, but that is a ponzi
[6/24/2014 10:07:07 AM] Adam B. Levine: no, that is a confidence game
[6/24/2014 10:07:12 AM | Edited 10:07:14 AM] Adam B. Levine: a ponzi implies there is a guy named ponzi
[6/24/2014 10:07:14 AM] Niceplum: which technology?
[6/24/2014 10:07:20 AM] Adam B. Levine: delegated proof of stake
[6/24/2014 10:07:23 AM] Niceplum: where
[6/24/2014 10:07:26 AM] Adam B. Levine: they're on alpha chain 5
[6/24/2014 10:07:32 AM] Niceplum: source?
[6/24/2014 10:07:38 AM] Adam B. Levine: bitsharestalk.com
[6/24/2014 10:07:41 AM] Adam B. Levine: good luck
[6/24/2014 10:07:44 AM] Adam B. Levine: :)
[6/24/2014 10:07:48 AM] Niceplum: actual source?
[6/24/2014 10:07:51 AM] Niceplum: is it on there
[6/24/2014 10:07:55 AM] Adam B. Levine: yeah hang on
[6/24/2014 10:08:40 AM] Adam B. Levine: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5250.0
[6/24/2014 10:09:45 AM] Adam B. Levine: both NXT and Bitshares are really attacking confirmation times, which things like msc and xcp demonstrate are quite long in the bitcoin paradigm where blocks occasionally take an hour
[6/24/2014 10:09:58 AM] Adam B. Levine: it didnt used to matter
[6/24/2014 10:10:16 AM] Adam B. Levine: but now when actions are only as granular as how long it takes for it to be included in a block, suddenly it's a lifetime
[6/24/2014 10:10:43 AM] Niceplum: BitShares isn't a cryptocurrency though, how is it possible to compare them
[6/24/2014 10:10:50 AM] Adam B. Levine: how can you say that?
[6/24/2014 10:11:16 AM] Niceplum: because the whitepaper defines it as a decentralized for-profit bank?
[6/24/2014 10:11:33 AM | Edited 10:11:39 AM] Adam B. Levine: that's like saying bitcoin isn't a cryptocurrency because its whitepaper defines it as decentralized cash
[6/24/2014 10:11:50 AM] orperelman: lol
[6/24/2014 10:11:52 AM] Adam B. Levine: cryptocurrency is a broad categorical classificaiton having to do with how the network actually works, not what it calls itself
[6/24/2014 10:12:08 AM] Niceplum: well then its not decentralized cash
[6/24/2014 10:12:28 AM] Adam B. Levine: it's a token that can be transmitted irrevocably to any network connected terminal
[6/24/2014 10:12:37 AM] Adam B. Levine: call it what you, that's a token and tokens are cryptocurrencies
[6/24/2014 10:12:48 AM] Niceplum: irrevocably? but isn't that against the idea of TaPOS
[6/24/2014 10:12:52 AM] Adam B. Levine: unless you're talking about the kind you hold in your hand
[6/24/2014 10:12:56 AM] Niceplum: where people vote whats valid and not
[6/24/2014 10:12:58 AM] Adam B. Levine: TaPOS was thrown out
[6/24/2014 10:13:07 AM] Adam B. Levine: :)
[6/24/2014 10:13:12 AM] Adam B. Levine: this is DPOS
[6/24/2014 10:13:18 AM] Niceplum: DPOS?
[6/24/2014 10:13:21 AM] Adam B. Levine: TaPOS was (Transactions as Proof of Stake)
[6/24/2014 10:13:28 AM] Adam B. Levine: DPOS is Delegated Proof of Stake
[6/24/2014 10:13:36 AM] Niceplum: which means?
[6/24/2014 10:13:43 AM] Adam B. Levine: Feel free to read up on it
[6/24/2014 10:13:52 AM] Adam B. Levine: github link is in the thread linked earlier
[6/24/2014 10:13:55 AM] Niceplum: its not transparent forging is it
[6/24/2014 10:14:00 AM] Adam B. Levine: it seems similar
[6/24/2014 10:14:20 AM] Adam B. Levine: but its not based on your stake, its based on the stake people throw behind you based on transparent performance
[6/24/2014 10:14:52 AM] Adam B. Levine: votes are cast automatically I believe for the best performing delegates judged by transaction inclusion rate, long term consistency, etc
[6/24/2014 10:15:03 AM] Adam B. Levine: but i am not an expert on this at all
[6/24/2014 10:15:32 AM] Niceplum: massive house of cards
[6/24/2014 10:15:43 AM] Adam B. Levine: just a guy who has been watching and talking with and yelling at the larimer folks to know they might look like a ponzi, but really they're just engineers who have no desire or ability to control optics
[6/24/2014 10:16:05 AM] Adam B. Levine: you're making me want to defend them just because I don't think you actually know what you're talking about, and that's odd because I"m quite annoyed with them.
[6/24/2014 10:16:21 AM] Adam B. Levine: if you have specific complaints please make them, don't just throw mud
[6/24/2014 10:17:31 AM] Niceplum: it cannot remain decentralized indefinitely, but I'll leave it to someone more technically knowledgable to argument that
[6/24/2014 10:18:04 AM] Niceplum: brb
[6/24/2014 10:18:32 AM] Adam B. Levine: happy to chat with you seperately, I really don't get how you can say definitive things like "cannot" when that's true of ANY of these protocols, they can all be modified should the need be there so again it's like saying it's not cryptocurrency. Why this over all others?
[6/24/2014 10:18:45 AM] Adam B. Levine: ;)
[6/24/2014 10:18:52 AM] Adam B. Levine: Incidentally your interview is running on Saturday
[6/24/2014 10:24:03 AM] Michael Sullivan: Are delegates secure?
[6/24/2014 10:25:45 AM] Michael Sullivan: Bitshares may finally be on right track, hard to know. But yeah it's been frustrating trying to keep up with the dev and tech branding over the past year.
[6/24/2014 10:31:16 AM | Edited 10:31:21 AM] Adam B. Levine: I've got a technical friend looking at the delegate requirements right now, I might wind up being the face of a few while he runs the technical stuff on the backend. It's an interesting approach, complete transparency does in fact make it quite hard to cheat
[6/24/2014 10:31:27 AM] Adam B. Levine: (for more than one instance)
[6/24/2014 10:36:20 AM] Niceplum: isn't the whole result of proof of stake that the rich get richer?
[6/24/2014 10:38:08 AM] Janislav: it is not different than with bitcoin. rich people buy a lot of miners and get richer
[6/24/2014 10:39:23 AM] Adam B. Levine: right, the problem isn't how you get your resources but rather that some people have more resources than others
[6/24/2014 10:39:43 AM] Adam B. Levine: This is another thing invictus tried to address, Protoshares was supposed to be CPU minable only and worked best on CPUs
[6/24/2014 10:39:57 AM] Adam B. Levine: problem is, someone with money can just rent a bunch of servers from amazon by the hour and min/max, just like with any other way
[6/24/2014 10:40:08 AM] Adam B. Levine: So the problem is that "stake" is capital-scalable, rather than human-scalable
[6/24/2014 10:40:46 AM] Adam B. Levine: really what we want is as broad an even a distribution on a human level as possible, but there's no proof-of-unique-human yet that's easy and cheap and pervasive, so here we are
[6/24/2014 10:43:23 AM] Niceplum: well, it will require some form of reputation system which assumes a consensus
[6/24/2014 10:43:38 AM] Adam B. Levine: yep, so it won't happen
[6/24/2014 10:43:50 AM] Niceplum: exactly
[6/24/2014 10:43:59 AM] Adam B. Levine: thus, everybody does everything - Many of us watch them all, and whatever works we'll cannabilize
I'm clearly your enemy, and invictus is doing a fantastic job.
1. Good - if you really have said what this text says you have said.
2. For those people I cannot say much
– ‘It is ponzi, cause I say it is ponzi.’
- ‘It is not currency’ - which is problem how?.... and the rest of the nonsense objections that you yourself have answered pretty well.
I3 needs better PR – ooh ye I agree with this wholeheartedly!
3.All of the above being said explain the benefits of posting great conclusions about how I3 is the big bad wolf from an argument between somebody how is not part of I3 for more than 6 mo. and somebody who has never been part of it?
-
I'm clearly your enemy, and invictus is doing a fantastic job.
Still you are educating others about our goals and techniques .. and you are doing great explaining it!
Unfortunately those guys seem to have no interest in constructive feedback .. otherwise they would join the discussion over here and not on a private skype chat.
Maybe one more thing: they issue with stake in several other systems (best example is NXT) is that the stakes are not fairly distributed .. sure bitshares stakes are also not fairly distributed (i guess) but your surely agree that we have a much wider distribution of stake than any other proof-of-stake crypto such as peercoin/blackcoin/darkcoin and others.
That's maybe one of the big advantages we have over here.
BTW. we have initiated contact with freenode admins to recover the already registered #bitshares channel ..
Why would groups like swarm come to bitshares when others have a working product, right now, that don't demand 20% of their money supply before the community will "support" them. Why would they want to visit these confusing, hostile forums when they could save themselves the trouble and bang their head against a more conveniently located brick wall
Bitshares is one of the smallest 2.0 communities, do you notice how when 30 people join to complain about their investment taking an extra 200% of the timeline that was sold to them it's a big deal? That's because there are less than two hundred active members on the forum, and the ones that are left are the TRUE BELIEVERS. Invictus did one thing "right", they locked people in so as they make bad choices there is no way for their investors to escape them.
I'm an industry evangelist. I want all the 2.0 protocols to succeed. Why are you arguing with me? Because you backed what turned out to be a very risky horse. I'm sorry about that, we all believed in Daniels vision in the beginning.
-
I still do believe
-
I still do believe
It's obvious you believe, the question is can you articulate your belief or do you just believe whatever words come out of his mouth? I can't even tell what the vision is any more, it was clear to me in the beginning. Help me understand.
-
I still do believe
It's obvious you believe, the question is can you articulate your belief or do you just believe whatever words come out of his mouth? I can't even tell what the vision is any more, it was clear to me in the beginning. Help me understand.
I will buy you out completely if you like. No one should invest in what they don't understand, so I feel for you because the game has changed slightly. PM me and I will buy you out at cost plus goodwill.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
I still do believe
It's obvious you believe, the question is can you articulate your belief or do you just believe whatever words come out of his mouth? I can't even tell what the vision is any more, it was clear to me in the beginning. Help me understand.
Everyone shittalks other's projects. How would any intelligent person call Bitshares a "ponzi". It is absurd. You're only an enemy because of your FUD. Like insulting the whole Bitshares community because you were arguing with one guy.
The "vision" is a toolkit that enables DAC creation and a properly incentivized structure around it. The "vision" is the same it has been since I have been here. You act like they've changed product lines or something silly. They've refactored some things and no one is happy with the delays but we are happier with a significantly more robust system.
People act like there is a comprehensive system to build DACs with. You can fork a coin and write all the support code yourself, but why? Bitshares is doing what they've been doing since the beginning. That is the "vision".