BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ggozzo on April 08, 2015, 12:24:33 am
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BTS keeps falling and I wanted to cover some of my position but it says I have to buy bitUSD to cover. Try to buy bitUSD and i dont have sufficient funds. So is there a way around this or do I have to wait the 30 days out and get auto filled upon expiration?
Sure hope there is some way to get out. Losing BTS everyday!
Side note: why does my account dashboard not display how much I am short?
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BTS keeps falling and I wanted to cover some of my position but it says I have to buy bitUSD to cover. Try to buy bitUSD and i dont have sufficient funds. So is there a way around this or do I have to wait the 30 days out and get auto filled upon expiration?
Sure hope there is some way to get out. Losing BTS everyday!
Side note: why does my account dashboard not display how much I am short?
We are adding an operation that will allow you to cover a short position using the collateral at any time. We are doing this by giving the user the ability to set the "call price" to anything higher than the "minimum call price". This feature makes it trivial to bypass the 5% fee by slightly increasing your call price, so this makes the 5% fee impossible to enforce.
In reality the 5% fee merely served to create a variable amount of additional collateral depending upon the risk tolerance of each individual shorter. Considering we are raising the min collateral requirement from 1.5 to 2x the added benefit of the 5% fee is insignificant. The fear of a short squeeze and being forced to buy at up to 10% above the feed if there are not enough orders at the feed means there is still plenty of incentive to avoid forced buying.
If you set your call price at or above the price feed then your order will be matched against any and all bids up to 10% above the feed. So be careful or you might just walk the book.
Overall this will simplify the explanation of BitShares and shorts and remove uncertainty over how shorts and fees will be calculated.
@bytemaster
If I am right on current versions it is still not possible....
Will this future be implemented soon?
@skyscraperfarms
After expiration day if you not have covered yet you will loose up to 10% further (with current version, If I am not missing anything)
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I realize it's a bit late now, but for any other readers, this is much easier to manage if you break up your shorts into small orders. That way you can roll it all over gradually with a lot less extra BTS.
Is it all a single order coming due at once?
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I realize it's a bit late now, but for any other readers, this is much easier to manage if you break up your shorts into small orders. That way you can roll it all over gradually with a lot less extra BTS.
Is it all a single order coming due at once?
using the remaining collateral to cover shorts would be the best solution(?)
any update on this?
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I realize it's a bit late now, but for any other readers, this is much easier to manage if you break up your shorts into small orders. That way you can roll it all over gradually with a lot less extra BTS.
Is it all a single order coming due at once?
It was 3 separate order. Two small, one bigger.
They all come due within a day of the first one.
This is the worst thing I have come across in BitShares. How could this be? It seem it would be common sense to be able to cover, especially since the blockchain controls the collateral.
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I realize it's a bit late now, but for any other readers, this is much easier to manage if you break up your shorts into small orders. That way you can roll it all over gradually with a lot less extra BTS.
Is it all a single order coming due at once?
using the remaining collateral to cover shorts would be the best solution(?)
any update on this?
I actually don't want to do anything now. This is pretty lame and I will just wait it out and update if the market turns around or if I get screwed or if this problem is corrected.
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It seem it would be common sense to be able to cover, especially since the blockchain controls the collateral.
THIS ^
I hope they implement the future to cover our shorts using the remaining collateral soon enough! Traders expect this by default...
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It actually is annoying me thinking about this. I assumed that I could exit regardless of the amount of BTS or bitUSD held in my account * as long as my collateral can cover any loss.
Having shorted stocks before, I'm actually credited the amount of money for the shares I shorted. I can then use that money to buy back the shares in order to close the position out. I don't ever have to go to the bank and transfer more money in to buy them back. But I also can't use that money to buy other stocks if it puts me over a required margin amount.
Why can't I be in control of the BTS from the sale of the bitUSD? I know it will mess up the 3x collateral claims, but I think 2x collateral is plenty. If not, you need to implement a manual cover that will execute at limit orders and not be shuffled to the back of the book.
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I realize it's a bit late now, but for any other readers, this is much easier to manage if you break up your shorts into small orders. That way you can roll it all over gradually with a lot less extra BTS.
Is it all a single order coming due at once?
It was 3 separate order. Two small, one bigger.
They all come due within a day of the first one.
This is the worst thing I have come across in BitShares. How could this be? It seem it would be common sense to be able to cover, especially since the blockchain controls the collateral.
I do not know if you started this as a general concern thread or do you need a solution for just now.
1. Generally - This was done because BM feels the more collateral the safer system... at all costs. My total disagreement with that notion is well documented. At least he is softening his stands as was quoted above on this 'soft collateral' issue....
2. Practical - The way to do it (assuming you do not want to put new money in BTS) is to:
Borrow BTS from a friend; buy bitUSD, cover your shorts and return the loaned BTS from the collateral you will get back.
This works only if you have not lost too much and there are enough bitUSD for sell...Right now you will have to pay quite a premium for any bitUSD you want to buy, though.
Hope this helps....
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It seem it would be common sense to be able to cover, especially since the blockchain controls the collateral.
THIS ^
I hope they implement the future to cover our shorts using the remaining collateral soon enough! Traders expect this by default...
Truth.
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anyone knows when the 0.9will release？I have some asset can not found. Now I need to cover the short with that money.
从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk
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anyone knows when the 0.9will release？I have some asset can not found. Now I need to cover the short with that money.
Have you tried importing your wallet into 0.8? I had no issues receiving shares from NOTES.
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anyone knows when the 0.9will release？I have some asset can not found. Now I need to cover the short with that money.
Have you tried importing your wallet into 0.8? I had no issues receiving shares from NOTES.
The problem is that 0.8 has an issue while recovering/regenerating active key.
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anyone knows when the 0.9will release？I have some asset can not found. Now I need to cover the short with that money.
If you're brave enough, you could try the patch in this issue https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares/issues/1413 and make a work build yourself. ;)
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The problem is that 0.8 has an issue while recovering/regenerating active key.
Do you know details .. could you tell us more?
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So, just out of curiosity I covered a couple dollars worth of one of my short positions. I received yield for holding the little bit of BitUSD but have not received any of the BTS for covering collateral included.
This is turning into a deal breaker with the entire project for me. I went all in and am now losing my ass and then I am going to get screwed even more when the system covers for me.
I am documenting everything from this experience; all the prices, trades and losses, the inability to cover a short position if you used all bts to short and collateralize, partial covers not showing up in wallet leaving no ability to actually cover in small amount, and then the eventual 10% hit when the system auto covers at expiration. This is all crap by the way. You should have had disclaimers telling people they cant cover without buying more bitUSD which requires more bts since the tied up bts cant be used.
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So, just out of curiosity I covered a couple dollars worth of one of my short positions. I received yield for holding the little bit of BitUSD but have not received any of the BTS for covering collateral included.
You need to cover a cover_order in full (including interest) before its collateral is returned. If you have a few smaller ones that you can selectively cover it might give you sufficient funds to cover the bigger ones as well.
You should have had disclaimers telling people they cant cover without buying more bitUSD which requires more bts since the tied up bts cant be used.
There is one important disclaimer. You may have missed it. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,7962.msg104898.html#msg104898
While I fully agree that it should be possible to use the collateral for covering, it is also generally unwise to invest in markets that you don't understand completely, especially if you're going all-in.
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So, just out of curiosity I covered a couple dollars worth of one of my short positions. I received yield for holding the little bit of BitUSD but have not received any of the BTS for covering collateral included.
You need to cover a cover_order in full (including interest) before its collateral is returned. If you have a few smaller ones that you can selectively cover it might give you sufficient funds to cover the bigger ones as well.
You should have had disclaimers telling people they cant cover without buying more bitUSD which requires more bts since the tied up bts cant be used.
There is one important disclaimer. You may have missed it. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,7962.msg104898.html#msg104898
While I fully agree that it should be possible to use the collateral for covering, it is also generally unwise to invest in markets that you don't understand completely, especially if you're going all-in.
Really?
You are going to lecture me about an asinine market rule that I assumed did not exist because of how real worldly stupid it would be to implement such a thing? And then in the face of your bold comment on reading disclaimers and understanding every inticate market caveat, you then wonder why this project isnt even on the tarmac and widely adopted yet. Go figure.
I took the plunge you all so desperately need others to take.
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skyscraperfarms brings up a good point. At some point "innovation" should be slowed down, and rules should be set in stone.
How else are hardware manufacturers going to commit to integrating with BTS?
Imagine an ATM that can dispose BitUSD by simply printing a private key (or transfer to one). Wow. That would be cool, right?
OK, but if the rules change all the time, no one is going to commit to making one.
We need to set in stone parts of the protocol that are vital for mass adoption.
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This issue has been brought up sporadically over the last year. Bytemaster mentioned that a fix could be done where you could cover with your existing collateral, but it sounded like a "duct tape" fix. I'm sure it will be addressed in the future, but I guess now its like burning your hand on the stove. Last year I got burned in the same way skyscraperfarms did recently.
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Is it so difficult to implement on next version the ability to use collateral to cover positions? Do we want more angry investors? Don't take this issue too "light" please @devs...
Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 997D
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Is it so difficult to implement on next version the ability to use collateral to cover positions? Do we want more angry investors? Don't take this issue too "light" please @devs...
Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 997D
@bytemaster please fix it.
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Update.
Some of my shorts have been force covered.
I originally shorted when BTS was 0.006409845523 USD
I tried to cover on April 7 when price was 0.0053 USD
I was filled today at .0038 when the "call/feed" was .0042
I lost over 40% of my Shares because of this.
Thanks BitShares!