BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: CLains on October 06, 2014, 10:38:53 pm
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The Salt Lake City-based company recently hired two of the developers behind CounterParty ... Code-named “Medici,” the project aims to democratize Wall Street in much the same way bitcoin seeks to democratize currency and payments. By operating separate from traditional stock exchanges and the big corporate banks, it could eliminate certain loopholes in the system and reduce the costs associated with issuing and juggling stock ...We think we have the first string in all positions,” Byrne says, referring to Perkins Coie and CounterParty ...The ultimate aim of the project is to create a stock system that operates, in large part, outside the control of the big incumbent banks ... Byrne is committing between five and ten percent of Overstock’s cash flow—”single-digit millions”—to the company’s cryptosecurity project. “Building this—and being the company that owns this—can be more valuable than Overstock,” he says. “It can be more valuable than Alibaba.”
http://www.wired.com/2014/10/overstock-com-assembles-coders-build-bitcoin-like-stock-market
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This really annoys me. Seems to me we are better across the board, and we have bitAssets.
I hope the crew will give one last shot at trying to form some sort of a partnership. We have a mutual enemy.
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He must have missed the memo I sent him.
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We should rally to fight this, let others know who was first
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Direct competition with deep pockets, looks like we just need to double out efforts. We just might need to find someone that wants to beat Overstock to market that supports BitShares.
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This isn't competition if they don't plan on issuing market pegged assets.
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This isn't competition if they don't plan on issuing market pegged assets.
That's true. BitShares X is much bigger than just a decentralized stock market. It replaces forex, futures, equities and a hand full of other things.
Not to mention, its already here, and working.
(https://i.imgur.com/pYcvaCj.png)
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Guys... Counterparty protocol is working since last January.
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It's different. Both COULD cover the same ground but are aiming in different directions now. BTSX is like a bank + commodities + forex exchange, whereas Byrne's product would be like a stock exchange. It would be like the non-existent BitShares Me for companies, not like BitShares X.
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It's great news for the overall crypto economy. I personnal enjoy this news very much.
And don't be too sad, there is more than one stock exchange in the traditionnal financial world :)
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This isn't competition if they don't plan on issuing market pegged assets.
Must not be competition. They have hired a top notch law firm and will do much of the law / regulatory, lobbying, and PR and media work.
Do you think there will only be one such crypto exchange? Probably not!
Counterparty is not based on sustainable technology if they don't change something fundamentally but what they are very good at is forming partnerships, PR, having a sense for what the public / people needs. Learn from it!
BTSX was to young. But the time will come!
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I think overstock is a first, but their competition may use bitshares or something else to compete against a potential decntralized market arms race
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Let them slug through the regulatory quagmire while we work on bitUSD.
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Counterparty is not based on sustainable technology if they don't change something fundamentally but what they are very good at is forming partnerships, PR, having a sense for what the public / people needs. Learn from it!
The only reason bitshares is not as well known has little to do with a lack of marketing and pr imho.
The problem is that the entire pow community either bashes and sells fud about the technology constantly or outright ignores it like its ron paul at a republican convention. Obviously the best candidate, but too disruptive to even those interested in disruption.
Imho...bitshares is not compatible with overstock regardless. Why? Because overstock is not going to give anything to pts/ags.
However for anyome thinkin this isnt competiton...do you really think overstock is foing to accept bitUSD now?
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Counterparty is not based on sustainable technology if they don't change something fundamentally but what they are very good at is forming partnerships, PR, having a sense for what the public / people needs. Learn from it!
The only reason bitshares is not as well known has little to do with a lack of marketing and pr imho.
The problem is that the entire pow community either bashes and sells fud about the technology constantly or outright ignores it like its ron paul at a republican convention. Obviously the best candidate, but too disruptive to even those interested in disruption.
Imho...bitshares is not compatible with overstock regardless. Why? Because overstock is not going to give anything to pts/ags.
However for anyome thinkin this isnt competiton...do you really think overstock is foing to accept bitUSD now?
If BitUSD gets on a decent payment processor, yes, I still see it as a possibility.
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However for anyome thinkin this isnt competiton...do you really think overstock is foing to accept bitUSD now?
I don't think it will matter to be honest. They're just one retailer of many.
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Counterparty is not based on sustainable technology if they don't change something fundamentally but what they are very good at is forming partnerships, PR, having a sense for what the public / people needs. Learn from it!
The only reason bitshares is not as well known has little to do with a lack of marketing and pr imho.
The problem is that the entire pow community either bashes and sells fud about the technology constantly or outright ignores it like its ron paul at a republican convention. Obviously the best candidate, but too disruptive to even those interested in disruption.
Imho...bitshares is not compatible with overstock regardless. Why? Because overstock is not going to give anything to pts/ags.
However for anyome thinkin this isnt competiton...do you really think overstock is foing to accept bitUSD now?
If BitUSD gets on a decent payment processor, yes, I still see it as a possibility.
Nothing would have to be given to PTS/AGS. Overstock would have been a user issued asset.
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Maybe you guys can recall that I said this should be the focus of bitshares technology instead of dns and music?
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have you looked at counterwallet? It's pretty polished and easy to use.. I was able to create a wallet and start using it like 10 seconds literally... and looked at the asset exchange etc.. sure it doesnt have market pegged assets but maybe its meant to users to be able to issue assets for stocks/companies or anything for use without the need to check against a price feed like bitUSD does. It may work for a stock exchange that has nothing to do with the outside world.. you come in and things are priced in XCP rather than worrying about pegging and all the problems that come with that. The down side is that the exchange needs high amoun tof capital and marketing to get off the ground if at all, while doing the pegging will allow the system to fit within the confines of the current system to ease people into it before (if at ever) something like btsx becomes the defacto currency of choice rather than cumbersome fiat exchanging.
Immediately I found that its alot faster than btsx web based wallet... its using ASPX generating queries in the backend instead of ajax, maybe thats why? Not sure but its pretty easy to use and doesnt seem laggy... even loading charts.
All that being said...
A system the is geared for our current financial world is bitsharesx... and nothing competes... a system that would work in the future with a high seed capital that would allow people to "live" within it without fiat exchanges or conversion is something like counterparty... although bitsharesx can become that if the notion of USD or pegged assets are removed.
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“Building this—and being the company that owns this—can be more valuable than Overstock,” he says. “It can be more valuable than Alibaba.”
He is merely recreating what already exists and consequently this in not a competitor at all - his platform is explicitly centralized and designed to extract profit for the 'owners'.
This explains why he did not jump on Bitshares: he wants to own Wall Street. The irony.
Sad, I had high hopes for Patrick.
He seemed to understand that centralization is the root of the Wall Street/Big Bank evil he frequently rails against.
Ah well.
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Its nice to see their is a change in attitude. This is a competition and the best technology isn't necessarily going to be the winner, It could simply be the first one that gets their without a major screw
up. But lets not get lost here it's one company and they have to build from the ground up. We have time but we should understand time is a factor in everything thats happening right now. Once
overstock launches this exchange they have a globally recognized name and a legal team that has experience in crypto to jump through SEC hoops. If you read the article it should be noted they
aren't just going to try to launch something for Overstock but a exchange that they will try to attract any "The ultimate aim of the project is to create a stock system that operates, in large part,
outside the control of the big incumbent banks. " All they need now is a bitUSD (their is no reason they shouldn't implement market pegged assets) and wow it is starting to sound alot like bitsharesX.
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Its nice to see their is a change in attitude. This is a competition and the best technology isn't necessarily going to be the winner, It could simply be the first one that gets their without a major screw
up. But lets not get lost here it's one company and they have to build from the ground up. We have time but we should understand time is a factor in everything thats happening right now. Once
overstock launches this exchange they have a globally recognized name and a legal team that has experience in crypto to jump through SEC hoops. If you read the article it should be noted they
aren't just going to try to launch something for Overstock but a exchange that they will try to attract any "The ultimate aim of the project is to create a stock system that operates, in large part,
outside the control of the big incumbent banks. " All they need now is a bitUSD (their is no reason they shouldn't implement market pegged assets) and wow it is starting to sound alot like bitsharesX.
If they wanted to go that route they would have implemented it.. but I think the fear of the peg holding up kept them out... or the centralization of a price feed... anyways... in a new world you wouldnt need pegged assets.. but assets unpegged doign proper price discovery are just fine and maybe something byrne envisioned with stocks anyways... if they want to match the current stocks 1:1 to this new system then yea its just like btsx.. and Id say their interface has a head start... but the underlying technology might be a bit behind btsx.
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Maybe you guys can recall that I said this should be the focus of bitshares technology instead of dns and music?
Cute. Who are you?
Just a has-been that loves a good I-Told-You-So. Apparently one company's decision to choose a product is something to gloat about. It's too bad Overstock is the only way for a product to be successful...oh wait.
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Its nice to see their is a change in attitude. This is a competition and the best technology isn't necessarily going to be the winner, It could simply be the first one that gets their without a major screw
up. But lets not get lost here it's one company and they have to build from the ground up. We have time but we should understand time is a factor in everything thats happening right now. Once
overstock launches this exchange they have a globally recognized name and a legal team that has experience in crypto to jump through SEC hoops. If you read the article it should be noted they
aren't just going to try to launch something for Overstock but a exchange that they will try to attract any "The ultimate aim of the project is to create a stock system that operates, in large part,
outside the control of the big incumbent banks. " All they need now is a bitUSD (their is no reason they shouldn't implement market pegged assets) and wow it is starting to sound alot like bitsharesX.
If they wanted to go that route they would have implemented it.. but I think the fear of the peg holding up kept them out... or the centralization of a price feed... anyways... in a new world you wouldnt need pegged assets.. but assets unpegged doign proper price discovery are just fine and maybe something byrne envisioned with stocks anyways... if they want to match the current stocks 1:1 to this new system then yea its just like btsx.. and Id say their interface has a head start... but the underlying technology might be a bit behind btsx.
As others have pointed out he wants to own the exchange, IF he can get away with it. The big question imho will be if we can polish the exchange AND provide liquidity and how quickly. I think even with them having the overstock name we can give them a run for their money, besides any marketer worth his salt will now go to competitors and give them the "can you afford not to, look what overstock is doing".
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Its nice to see their is a change in attitude. This is a competition and the best technology isn't necessarily going to be the winner, It could simply be the first one that gets their without a major screw
up. But lets not get lost here it's one company and they have to build from the ground up. We have time but we should understand time is a factor in everything thats happening right now. Once
overstock launches this exchange they have a globally recognized name and a legal team that has experience in crypto to jump through SEC hoops. If you read the article it should be noted they
aren't just going to try to launch something for Overstock but a exchange that they will try to attract any "The ultimate aim of the project is to create a stock system that operates, in large part,
outside the control of the big incumbent banks. " All they need now is a bitUSD (their is no reason they shouldn't implement market pegged assets) and wow it is starting to sound alot like bitsharesX.
If they wanted to go that route they would have implemented it.. but I think the fear of the peg holding up kept them out... or the centralization of a price feed... anyways... in a new world you wouldnt need pegged assets.. but assets unpegged doign proper price discovery are just fine and maybe something byrne envisioned with stocks anyways... if they want to match the current stocks 1:1 to this new system then yea its just like btsx.. and Id say their interface has a head start... but the underlying technology might be a bit behind btsx.
As others have pointed out he wants to own the exchange, IF he can get away with it. The big question imho will be if we can polish the exchange AND provide liquidity and how quickly. I think even with them having the overstock name we can give them a run for their money, besides any marketer worth his salt will now go to competitors and give them the "can you afford not to, look what overstock is doing".
If he OWNS the exchange its not truly decentralized then is it.. unless he owns it for the sake of making fee revenue but has no ability to change structure of the exchange.. otherwise its just a decentralized system within a centralized box and not much has changed!
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Maybe you guys can recall that I said this should be the focus of bitshares technology instead of dns and music?
I lost alot of respect for you with this kind of I-told-you-so-trolling.............
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Maybe you guys can recall that I said this should be the focus of bitshares technology instead of dns and music?
I lost alot of respect for you with this kind of I-told-you-so-trolling.............
The regulatory hurdles for a securities market would be so much higher.
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Dan's immediate reaction was positive and grew more so the more he talked about it in several interviews immediately following the speech (which was awesome).
While it would have been a nice feather in the BTS hat to list them, it would have been a distraction from the bigger goals we are pursuing. We wouldn't want them to hire away our core team would,we?
Meanwhile we can use all the legal help we can get. It was gratifying they picked the same law firm we have been working with all year. Now our law firm will be properly funded to find all the answers we all are seeking.
It is true that building on top of Bitcoin is a serious flaw, but we view it as an opportunity! Dan is eager to see them start trading so we can accelerate their market by an order of magnitude with bitOverstock!
All in all this will give a sagging coinmarketcap a big shot in the arm and attract new interest to the industry.
And it's nice to let someone else be the tall poppy with the regulators! :)
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Does anybody have any more information about the part where he says he wants to own it. That sounds more than a little worrying to me. I have this feeling a lot of people are starting to lose sight of what decentralization means. If this turns into a recreation of everything that's wrong today, than this is not turning out well.
Also if more companies are entering this with the idea to "own" it, which is their usual MO, it will also mean that instead of the dotcom-bubble we'll be seeing the stock-exchange bubbles and any other financial instrument bubble.
Jikes, now I'm suspecting loads of patent trolls are already running to get their slice of "owning" the new thing, this will give me bad dreams.
EDIT
Lucky that Stan illustrated a lot of the benefits for this as well. But then again, I hope they'll be doing the legal battles with the focus on decentralization, otherwise those legal struggles won't help much.
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So sad for Overstock that they didn't choose BTS as the stock platform.
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The overall announcement was very positive. Overstock is laying the technical requirements for a crypto-system and the work they are doing will pave the way for all of the competitors.
The fact that they went with counter party means they are dead in the water and will eventually have to migrate to a different foundation. Why did they go with counter party?
1) They cannot see any other crypto unseating Bitcoin is the digital currency of choice
2) They wanted to securely trade against Bitcoin
3) Their team was available for a buyout.
Our entire focus of this conference was that Bitcoins real competitor is BitUSD and the fact that BitUSD can be marketed to the masses where as Bitcoin never will be. By the time Overstock actually releases a crypto-equity BitUSD will have a significant presence in the market. Traders are going to demand trading against BitUSD and eventually Ovestock will want to list their stock on an exchange that can trade against real currencies.
So this is good for us, they chose a competitor that isn't a threat. Had the chosen Nxt then I would have been more concerned. They chose a competitor that will be too SLOW for real trading and too expensive and uncertain.
Their roadmap must include issuing trust-based USD assets on counter party. Counter party does have "contract for difference" with "price feeds" and thus does provide some hedging options. It will be interesting.
The BTSX wallet has been built quickly and has not been optimized. The slowness you see today can be greatly accelerated with a few optimizations to how things are cached on the Javascript side.
I am relieved that we can focus on BitUSD because it is clear that Overstock is now committed very strongly to Counter Party at this point. This is a "war" and this battle just shows that most people do not yet get BitUSD... but they will soon enough.
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Does anybody have any more information about the part where he says he wants to own it. That sounds more than a little worrying to me. I have this feeling a lot of people are starting to lose sight of what decentralization means. If this turns into a recreation of everything that's wrong today, than this is not turning out well.
Also if more companies are entering this with the idea to "own" it, which is their usual MO, it will also mean that instead of the dotcom-bubble we'll be seeing the stock-exchange bubbles and any other financial instrument bubble.
Jikes, now I'm suspecting loads of patent trolls are already running to get their slice of "owning" the new thing, this will give me bad dreams.
EDIT
Lucky that Stan illustrated a lot of the benefits for this as well. But then again, I hope they'll be doing the legal battles with the focus on decentralization, otherwise those legal struggles won't help much.
I didn't quite catch it all, but after his speech someone who is far more knowledgeable about blockchain technology claimed that some portion of the code will not even be open sourced. Which I guess goes along with the idea the Patrick Byrne (sp?) wishes to own the exchange ? Not entirely sure...
The people I was sitting next to in the Bitshares crew seemed a bit down and it seemed a WTF impression was prevalent.
Apparently it has been an "open secret" amongst bitcoin insiders.
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There is only one thing I can think of that would compete in buzz....the launch of...
bitCocaine.
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The Salt Lake City-based company recently hired two of the developers behind CounterParty ... Code-named “Medici,” the project aims to democratize Wall Street in much the same way bitcoin seeks to democratize currency and payments. By operating separate from traditional stock exchanges and the big corporate banks, it could eliminate certain loopholes in the system and reduce the costs associated with issuing and juggling stock ...We think we have the first string in all positions,” Byrne says, referring to Perkins Coie and CounterParty ...The ultimate aim of the project is to create a stock system that operates, in large part, outside the control of the big incumbent banks ... Byrne is committing between five and ten percent of Overstock’s cash flow—”single-digit millions”—to the company’s cryptosecurity project. “Building this—and being the company that owns this—can be more valuable than Overstock,” he says. “It can be more valuable than Alibaba.”
http://www.wired.com/2014/10/overstock-com-assembles-coders-build-bitcoin-like-stock-market
What did I tell you guys weeks ago? The evidence was there in the hiring practices and timing.
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This really annoys me. Seems to me we are better across the board, and we have bitAssets.
I hope the crew will give one last shot at trying to form some sort of a partnership. We have a mutual enemy.
Bitshares isn't "better" by default. This is what I predicted would happen and Overstock is not an enemy or competition. Bitshares has to find it's niche and the niche is that you can trade value over Bitshares without regulation while Overstock will have to be in a niche of their own and that niche is they must be regulated. Overstock is a centralized company which will have to use KYC, AML and follow all sorts of legal regulations.
Overstock will lower development costs for the Bitshares X team because all of their solutions can be used by Bitshares X. Bitshares X is not trying to trade legal securities so when Overstock develops their solution Bitshares X can simply connect to it like it's a Gateway.
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Its nice to see their is a change in attitude. This is a competition and the best technology isn't necessarily going to be the winner, It could simply be the first one that gets their without a major screw
up. But lets not get lost here it's one company and they have to build from the ground up. We have time but we should understand time is a factor in everything thats happening right now. Once
overstock launches this exchange they have a globally recognized name and a legal team that has experience in crypto to jump through SEC hoops. If you read the article it should be noted they
aren't just going to try to launch something for Overstock but a exchange that they will try to attract any "The ultimate aim of the project is to create a stock system that operates, in large part,
outside the control of the big incumbent banks. " All they need now is a bitUSD (their is no reason they shouldn't implement market pegged assets) and wow it is starting to sound alot like bitsharesX.
+5%
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We should rally to fight this, let others know who was first
Don't be emotionally foolish. We should support this. No one cares who thought of something first but who does it best.
Overstock is about to pump massive amounts of money and resources into an effort we all support. There is enough money to make people on this forum millionaires or even billionaires.
Overstock cannot do what Bitshares X can do because Overstock is a centralized company. Months ago we were talking about how we needed an IOU Gateway, someone to turn our BitAssets into legal securities. It was always the case that we needed a centralized company to do this.
We should connect with Overstock to get them to provide an exit out of Bitshares X and into the real stock market. BitAssets are not real stocks but if they peg to the same price of real stocks then it shouldn't be hard to turn them into IOUs for the real stock.
BitAAPL could simply be used to purchased Apple stock through Overstocks network as long as the network is designed with an open API to allow this to happen. We should seize this opportunity to make sure they open their network up so that Bitshares X can communicate and connect to it.
As long as our network can connect to their network then it doesn't matter anymore. Each network will fill a niche. There are trillions of dollars available to go around so we should all work together.
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Its nice to see their is a change in attitude. This is a competition and the best technology isn't necessarily going to be the winner, It could simply be the first one that gets their without a major screw
up. But lets not get lost here it's one company and they have to build from the ground up. We have time but we should understand time is a factor in everything thats happening right now. Once
overstock launches this exchange they have a globally recognized name and a legal team that has experience in crypto to jump through SEC hoops. If you read the article it should be noted they
aren't just going to try to launch something for Overstock but a exchange that they will try to attract any "The ultimate aim of the project is to create a stock system that operates, in large part,
outside the control of the big incumbent banks. " All they need now is a bitUSD (their is no reason they shouldn't implement market pegged assets) and wow it is starting to sound alot like bitsharesX.
+5%
Am I the only one thinking about this as a programmer?
If developers of Bitshares X meet with developers of this new system then it can be designed in such a way where both networks can communicate with each other.
All we need is to make it possible for value in Bitshares X to be able to transfer in and out. If you can send your value to this securities exchange from Overstock from Bitshares X via BitAssets then it's less work for Bitshares X developers. You could send your BitGold to Overstock where it becomes actual Gold.
Now what about that API? We need good code more than anything else. Fighting over politics is fine as long as it doesn't interfere with the quality and flexibility of the code. The code should be a team effort and then let the users decide which platform to use based on their situation.
Some users will not be sophisticated investors so they wont be allowed to interact with a lot of the functionality of Overstock's solution. You can trade BitAssets without the SEC on you because it's not a security but the SEC is going to be all over Overstock because Overstock is a centralized company giving them something to attack and because they are actively trying to replace the NASDAQ while Bitshares X was trying to build a parallel market.
In my opinion this is how it is supposed to be. Only a centralized company can comply with all the legal responsibilities necessary to build a real securities exchange. Bitshares X would have had to connect to a centralized entity either through Ripple Gateways or through whatever Overstock ends up doing.
So it's ultimately just a matter of figuring out how to connect the two networks together. On Overstock you'll have to comply with all the rules but on Bitshares X since no actual shares are traded it's just people trading bottle caps. Those bottle caps are still worth enough money to purchase the actual stock on the stock market though if there is a Gateway to connect to.
If you have 100 BitAAPL then you have enough value to transform it into 100 AAPL. Behind the scenes it could use BitUSD, Bitcoin or cash and no one would really care as long as from the Bitshares X interface they can push a button and turn their BitAAPL into AAPL securities.
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We should rally to fight this, let others know who was first
Don't be emotionally foolish. We should support this. No one cares who thought of something first but who does it best.
Overstock is about to pump massive amounts of money and resources into an effort we all support. There is enough money to make people on this forum millionaires or even billionaires.
Overstock cannot do what Bitshares X can do because Overstock is a centralized company. Months ago we were talking about how we needed an IOU Gateway, someone to turn our BitAssets into legal securities. It was always the case that we needed a centralized company to do this.
We should connect with Overstock to get them to provide an exit out of Bitshares X and into the real stock market. BitAssets are not real stocks but if they peg to the same price of real stocks then it shouldn't be hard to turn them into IOUs for the real stock.
BitAAPL could simply be used to purchased Apple stock through Overstocks network as long as the network is designed with an open API to allow this to happen. We should seize this opportunity to make sure they open their network up so that Bitshares X can communicate and connect to it.
As long as our network can connect to their network then it doesn't matter anymore. Each network will fill a niche. There are trillions of dollars available to go around so we should all work together.
I agree. Apologies for the remark. I see great future gains due to Overstocks participation
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I was surprised to hear overstock going with counterparty. Thought they were going to use bitshares. There are still other companies.
XCP is taking off from the news release. XCP NXT bitsharesX My three favorite cryptos, because they are focusing on crypto2.0
Too bad I didn't buy any xcp or nxt but did buy a few btsx, and very happy i did.
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Dan's immediate reaction was positive and grew more so the more he talked about it in several interviews immediately following the speech (which was awesome).
While it would have been a nice feather in the BTS hat to list them, it would have been a distraction from the bigger goals we are pursuing. We wouldn't want them to hire away our core team would,we?
Meanwhile we can use all the legal help we can get. It was gratifying they picked the same law firm we have been working with all year. Now our law firm will be properly funded to find all the answers we all are seeking.
It is true that building on top of Bitcoin is a serious flaw, but we view it as an opportunity! Dan is eager to see them start trading so we can accelerate their market by an order of magnitude with bitOverstock!
All in all this will give a sagging coinmarketcap a big shot in the arm and attract new interest to the industry.
And it's nice to let someone else be the tall poppy with the regulators! :)
+5%
I'm glad you and Dan see it as I'm seeing it. This is positive.
I saw this news coming weeks ago because sometimes you can read the strategic movements of a centralized company by their hiring. This is one area which DACs have an advantage because you don't necessary have to know who a DAC is hiring or for what.
Centralized companies have the advantage of being able to work with regulators. The fact that we now have a centralized representative in Patrick Byrne is great. He can go on TV, give the speeches, speak to the politicians and regulators, deal with the legal situations which we are bound to have to face.
Overstock has the money to support the growth of this industry and what we should be doing is trying to get other centralized corporations like Overstock to rally around a central idea. If that idea is to build a new kind of stock market then it's a start and it's something Overstock, Reddit and many other large companies can rally behind.
This means we now in the same phase Linux was in when big companies started funding development. It raises the chances for success the more we see resources put into the central idea. So it shouldn't be seen as competition like how some people by instinct see it, but more as the ultimate outcome when you're trying to grow a new industry from scratch.
I was surprised to hear overstock going with counterparty. Thought they were going to use bitshares. There are still other companies.
XCP is taking off from the news release. XCP NXT bitsharesX My three favorite cryptos, because they are focusing on crypto2.0
Too bad I didn't buy any xcp or nxt but did buy a few btsx, and very happy i did.
Bitshares X can trade BitOverstock or anything else. It does not need endorsement by the company beyond that the company will accept payment in BitOverstock in exchange for shares in Overstock.
I think that could easily be arranged and we could trade on Bitshares X with or without permission.
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The Salt Lake City-based company recently hired two of the developers behind CounterParty ... Code-named “Medici,” the project aims to democratize Wall Street in much the same way bitcoin seeks to democratize currency and payments. By operating separate from traditional stock exchanges and the big corporate banks, it could eliminate certain loopholes in the system and reduce the costs associated with issuing and juggling stock ...We think we have the first string in all positions,” Byrne says, referring to Perkins Coie and CounterParty ...The ultimate aim of the project is to create a stock system that operates, in large part, outside the control of the big incumbent banks ... Byrne is committing between five and ten percent of Overstock’s cash flow—”single-digit millions”—to the company’s cryptosecurity project. “Building this—and being the company that owns this—can be more valuable than Overstock,” he says. “It can be more valuable than Alibaba.”
http://www.wired.com/2014/10/overstock-com-assembles-coders-build-bitcoin-like-stock-market
What did I tell you guys weeks ago? The evidence was there in the hiring practices and timing.
You sure did. I thought they were going to build their own tech though...not design something on xcp.
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The overall announcement was very positive. Overstock is laying the technical requirements for a crypto-system and the work they are doing will pave the way for all of the competitors.
The fact that they went with counter party means they are dead in the water and will eventually have to migrate to a different foundation. Why did they go with counter party?
1) They cannot see any other crypto unseating Bitcoin is the digital currency of choice
2) They wanted to securely trade against Bitcoin
3) Their team was available for a buyout.
Our entire focus of this conference was that Bitcoins real competitor is BitUSD and the fact that BitUSD can be marketed to the masses where as Bitcoin never will be. By the time Overstock actually releases a crypto-equity BitUSD will have a significant presence in the market. Traders are going to demand trading against BitUSD and eventually Ovestock will want to list their stock on an exchange that can trade against real currencies.
So this is good for us, they chose a competitor that isn't a threat. Had the chosen Nxt then I would have been more concerned. They chose a competitor that will be too SLOW for real trading and too expensive and uncertain.
Their roadmap must include issuing trust-based USD assets on counter party. Counter party does have "contract for difference" with "price feeds" and thus does provide some hedging options. It will be interesting.
The BTSX wallet has been built quickly and has not been optimized. The slowness you see today can be greatly accelerated with a few optimizations to how things are cached on the Javascript side.
I am relieved that we can focus on BitUSD because it is clear that Overstock is now committed very strongly to Counter Party at this point. This is a "war" and this battle just shows that most people do not yet get BitUSD... but they will soon enough.
your comments do make sense to me. just one question, in this news, it's said os is hiring counterparty coders to develop their own stock market, no clear statement about it will be based on counterparty or not. actually, if os said os want to issue their own stock on blockchain than it looks like they're going to do it on the counterparty, but they're talking about delevop/own a new stock market/exchange.. really confusing.
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The overall announcement was very positive. Overstock is laying the technical requirements for a crypto-system and the work they are doing will pave the way for all of the competitors.
The fact that they went with counter party means they are dead in the water and will eventually have to migrate to a different foundation. Why did they go with counter party?
1) They cannot see any other crypto unseating Bitcoin is the digital currency of choice
2) They wanted to securely trade against Bitcoin
3) Their team was available for a buyout.
Our entire focus of this conference was that Bitcoins real competitor is BitUSD and the fact that BitUSD can be marketed to the masses where as Bitcoin never will be. By the time Overstock actually releases a crypto-equity BitUSD will have a significant presence in the market. Traders are going to demand trading against BitUSD and eventually Ovestock will want to list their stock on an exchange that can trade against real currencies.
So this is good for us, they chose a competitor that isn't a threat. Had the chosen Nxt then I would have been more concerned. They chose a competitor that will be too SLOW for real trading and too expensive and uncertain.
Their roadmap must include issuing trust-based USD assets on counter party. Counter party does have "contract for difference" with "price feeds" and thus does provide some hedging options. It will be interesting.
The BTSX wallet has been built quickly and has not been optimized. The slowness you see today can be greatly accelerated with a few optimizations to how things are cached on the Javascript side.
I am relieved that we can focus on BitUSD because it is clear that Overstock is now committed very strongly to Counter Party at this point. This is a "war" and this battle just shows that most people do not yet get BitUSD... but they will soon enough.
+5%
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So if you have appl shares on nasdaq how would the proposed system transfer them to your counterwallet and then your bitappl (btsx bridge)? I would think you need to issue totally new assets not found on nasdaq for a long while and maybe one day appl and the likes will see value in using overstocks exchange instead of nasdaq because thats where the trading volume is... It would not be feasible i think to havd something like appl trading on the exchange because of the conversion. I GUESS it poses the general question and a bigger one that what would it take the interbank to trade on a decentralized exchange when they simply dont have to they get all orderbook info others cant see and they wouldnt have these advsntages on something like bitshares... Maybe once big companies like overstock and bigger decide that hey i dont want my stock to be ruined by quant trading bots frontrunning large trades and ruining confidence... And later maybe they will want to settle foreign accounts right there on the same exchange because of lower fees then it might make sense... Long ways away still and id think there is alot of time for either platforms to collaborate or even research how to solve the incentive issues so they are good to go when the big caps start to move in... If they do
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So if you have appl shares on nasdaq how would the proposed system transfer them to your counterwallet and then your bitappl (btsx bridge)? I would think you need to issue totally new assets not found on nasdaq for a long while and maybe one day appl and the likes will see value in using overstocks exchange instead of nasdaq because thats where the trading volume is... It would not be feasible i think to havd something like appl trading on the exchange because of the conversion. I GUESS it poses the general question and a bigger one that what would it take the interbank to trade on a decentralized exchange when they simply dont have to they get all orderbook info others cant see and they wouldnt have these advsntages on something like bitshares... Maybe once big companies like overstock and bigger decide that hey i dont want my stock to be ruined by quant trading bots frontrunning large trades and ruining confidence... And later maybe they will want to settle foreign accounts right there on the same exchange because of lower fees then it might make sense... Long ways away still and id think there is alot of time for either platforms to collaborate or even research how to solve the incentive issues so they are good to go when the big caps start to move in... If they do
If someone is willing to sell their AAPL for cash, Bitcoins or anything else then you can have a bridge. The entity purchases the security from the standard stock market and then sells via the bridge.
It's not really hard to set up. The regulation is the only hard part. BitPay is set up so people can use it and you could do something similar for stocks.
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So if you have appl shares on nasdaq how would the proposed system transfer them to your counterwallet and then your bitappl (btsx bridge)? I would think you need to issue totally new assets not found on nasdaq for a long while and maybe one day appl and the likes will see value in using overstocks exchange instead of nasdaq because thats where the trading volume is... It would not be feasible i think to havd something like appl trading on the exchange because of the conversion. I GUESS it poses the general question and a bigger one that what would it take the interbank to trade on a decentralized exchange when they simply dont have to they get all orderbook info others cant see and they wouldnt have these advsntages on something like bitshares... Maybe once big companies like overstock and bigger decide that hey i dont want my stock to be ruined by quant trading bots frontrunning large trades and ruining confidence... And later maybe they will want to settle foreign accounts right there on the same exchange because of lower fees then it might make sense... Long ways away still and id think there is alot of time for either platforms to collaborate or even research how to solve the incentive issues so they are good to go when the big caps start to move in... If they do
If someone is willing to sell their AAPL for cash, Bitcoins or anything else then you can have a bridge. The entity purchases the security from the standard stock market and then sells via the bridge.
It's not really hard to set up. The regulation is the only hard part. BitPay is set up so people can use it and you could do something similar for stocks.
But people may not want to sell their positions to rebuy somewhere else because that is a high transactional cost via spread. I dont think you can bridge nasdaq for one they wont let you. So in essence you are saying nasdaq can be an entry gateway into the overstock exchsnge and thus later on btsx? I doubt nasdaq will give up exiting their system to a competitor doesnt make much sense.
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I think it would be more useful for smaller companies. Penny stocks. Think BitShares Me. Bigger, publicly traded companies are subject to way too many securities restrictions and you are right that the exchanges will not allow them to float stock elsewhere. Patrick Byrne doesn't have the patience for dealing with that and I'm not sure why publicly traded companies would want this anyway. If they could figure out a way to do bond notes, that would be another possibility, but it might get into lending also. Whatever they try, this will be squarely in the sights of regulators.
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So if you have appl shares on nasdaq how would the proposed system transfer them to your counterwallet and then your bitappl (btsx bridge)? I would think you need to issue totally new assets not found on nasdaq for a long while and maybe one day appl and the likes will see value in using overstocks exchange instead of nasdaq because thats where the trading volume is... It would not be feasible i think to havd something like appl trading on the exchange because of the conversion. I GUESS it poses the general question and a bigger one that what would it take the interbank to trade on a decentralized exchange when they simply dont have to they get all orderbook info others cant see and they wouldnt have these advsntages on something like bitshares... Maybe once big companies like overstock and bigger decide that hey i dont want my stock to be ruined by quant trading bots frontrunning large trades and ruining confidence... And later maybe they will want to settle foreign accounts right there on the same exchange because of lower fees then it might make sense... Long ways away still and id think there is alot of time for either platforms to collaborate or even research how to solve the incentive issues so they are good to go when the big caps start to move in... If they do
If someone is willing to sell their AAPL for cash, Bitcoins or anything else then you can have a bridge. The entity purchases the security from the standard stock market and then sells via the bridge.
It's not really hard to set up. The regulation is the only hard part. BitPay is set up so people can use it and you could do something similar for stocks.
But people may not want to sell their positions to rebuy somewhere else because that is a high transactional cost via spread. I dont think you can bridge nasdaq for one they wont let you. So in essence you are saying nasdaq can be an entry gateway into the overstock exchsnge and thus later on btsx? I doubt nasdaq will give up exiting their system to a competitor doesnt make much sense.
People will pay whatever the fees or costs are for diversification. NASDAQ doesn't have to give up it's system because Bitshares X doesn't compete with NASDAQ. Overstock is competing with NASDAQ.
Bitshares X is in a position where it can integrate with any Gateway including the NASDAQ Gateway. If I had a position of BitAAPL and I wanted to turn it into legal securities then I would send the value to the Gateway where that value would be exchanged for the legal securities which then would be legally transferred to me.
So it would be no different from purchasing legal securities with Bitcoin or cash. The same process could apply to any kind of asset which can currently be purchased with Bitcoin so really the point is to make the process streamlined and do it behind the scenes like how BitPay does it.
Even if you are right and NASDAQ fights against Overstock it doesn't mean NASDAQ will be fighting against Bitshares. Anyone who can sell stocks can sell stocks and they can sell stocks for Bitcoins or cash. So the only difference will be how many processes it takes to get them to sell the stock. BitPay proves that if you make the process transparent and streamlined then merchants and customers (stockholders and buyers) need not know Bitcoin, BitUSD, or BitAssets are involved at all.
This would make Bitshares X a virtual exchange which exists as a parallel market rather than an actual securities exchange like NASDAQ or the Overstock idea. This means NASDAQ and Overstock have to go through legal processes, take on legal risks, while we do not. The regulation for us would happen if we want to exit the Bitshares X ecosystem and make our virtual assets into legal assets.
Answer this: If you had millions of dollars worth of Bitshares X because you were a smart investor so that now you can cash out and be considered a "sophisticated investor", own the legal assets, have the legal protections, you wouldn't diversify out? I think there will be demand to diversify out once the market cap reaches a point where some people trading these BitAssets will want the real thing.
I think it would be more useful for smaller companies. Penny stocks. Think BitShares Me. Bigger, publicly traded companies are subject to way too many securities restrictions and you are right that the exchanges will not allow them to float stock elsewhere. Patrick Byrne doesn't have the patience for dealing with that and I'm not sure why publicly traded companies would want this anyway. If they could figure out a way to do bond notes, that would be another possibility, but it might get into lending also. Whatever they try, this will be squarely in the sights of regulators.
They have the money to try it. The GPL wasn't guaranteed to work either but it was tried and now we have free software.
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BitShares X is competing with NASDAQ. Its a securities exchange...
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So this is good for us, they chose a competitor that isn't a threat. Had the chosen Nxt then I would have been more concerned. They chose a competitor that will be too SLOW for real trading and too expensive and uncertain.
Yeah, trading the US equity market on BTC blockchain will be like running Google on a ZX Spectrum computer. Not to mention that bitcoin developers want to discourage what they call non-standard transactions. Maybe they move to Dogeparty at least ;)
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Do we even need centralized companies to list shares on BTSX? Not really. And it takes time. BitUSD is a larger market. just wait till the on ramps are put in place :)
BitUSD, BitOil, BitGold, BitSilver, BitEuro, BitYEN, ...... Do you guys realize how much money could be traded on BTSX once it takes off?
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“Building this—and being the company that owns this—can be more valuable than Overstock,” he says. “It can be more valuable than Alibaba.”
He is merely recreating what already exists and consequently this in not a competitor at all - his platform is explicitly centralized and designed to extract profit for the 'owners'.
This explains why he did not jump on Bitshares: he wants to own Wall Street. The irony.
Sad, I had high hopes for Patrick.
He seemed to understand that centralization is the root of the Wall Street/Big Bank evil he frequently rails against.
Ah well.
Yup. The wording here is ...
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How can you trade something like bitAAPL or other virtual stocks on bitshares, won't the peg break whenever dividends are issued?
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How can you trade something like bitAAPL or other virtual stocks on bitshares, won't the peg break whenever dividends are issued?
Dividends are usually factored into the stock price as soon as they are announced.
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I agree with theFu, bitCOCAINE, it will get the headlines.
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Meanwhile we can use all the legal help we can get. It was gratifying they picked the same law firm we have been working with all year. Now our law firm will be properly funded to find all the answers we all are seeking.
And it's nice to let someone else be the tall poppy with the regulators! :)
This is very good news. +5%
The fact that we now have a centralized representative in Patrick Byrne is great. He can go on TV, give the speeches, speak to the politicians and regulators, deal with the legal situations which we are bound to have to face.
+5%
So this is good for us, they chose a competitor that isn't a threat. Had the chosen Nxt then I would have been more concerned. They chose a competitor that will be too SLOW for real trading and too expensive and uncertain.
True! If they are committed to staying on bitcoin what can we say..
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What TheFu.. said, and eagleeye.
If you think about it, getting a whole range of bitYourPharmaceuticalBrandOfChoice on bitsharesx would be HUGE. It would finally get the very much needed price discovery solved and get some real honest price-fighting going. Plus they love USD like no other, they'd love bitUSD. Talk about undercutting the banks, that would be taking away their #1 customer. Also think about how messed up that market is, if you're not part of the in-crowd the resident pharmaceutical company can even get governments to declare war on its competitors.
BUT, without the onramp thing solved then it would be no more than just pricediscovery. Maybe the OpenBazaar might solve the onramp thing, you need to be sure that you get your sugar instead of something horrible like Aspartame, man that stuff messes up your brain.
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So Overstock use Counterparty devs. and XCP goes 150% on the news... That doesn't look very bad for XCP holders.
I don't understand why this reaction to these news and XCP was increased like that. I would have sold immediately all my BTSX if BM was going to work for Overstock and the community would need to look new devs... Cryptos really are a very strange thing to watch...
But...bottom line is that XCP did increase by 150% on the news. Do we have anything similar to wait as well for BTSX to boost the price? The last couple of days it appears that BTSX market cap follows Bitcoin's market cap on the downside. I was hopping that BTSX holders will not care much about what is happening to bitcoin..
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So Overstock use Counterparty devs. and XCP goes 150% on the news... That doesn't look very bad for XCP holders.
I don't understand why this reaction to these news and XCP was increased like that. I would have sold immediately all my BTSX if BM was going to work for Overstock and the community would need to look new devs... Cryptos really are a very strange thing to watch...
But...bottom line is that XCP did increase by 150% on the news. Do we have anything similar to wait as well for BTSX to boost the price? The last couple of days it appears that BTSX market cap follows Bitcoin's market cap on the downside. I was hopping that BTSX holders will not care much about what is happening to bitcoin..
If the crypto-speculators were a rational entity, then that means getting rid of the counterparty devs was the best thing that could happen to the project and that one of the devs was doing a half decent job.
But that is one big if, trying to understand the crypto market is like trying to understand female logic. Apparently it makes perfect sense to them.
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My hope is that what follows for BitSharesX is a renewed focus on utility of BitUSD and partnerships (OB?), fiat on/off-ramps/cross chain trading/debit cards/bill payment etc...and marketing all of this.
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My hope is that what follows for BitSharesX is a renewed focus on utility of BitUSD and partnerships (OB?), fiat on/off-ramps/cross chain trading/debit cards/bill payment etc...and marketing all of this.
+5%
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But that is one big if, trying to understand the crypto market is like trying to understand female logic.
LOL!! +5%
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This really annoys me. Seems to me we are better across the board, and we have bitAssets.
I hope the crew will give one last shot at trying to form some sort of a partnership. We have a mutual enemy.
Bitshares isn't "better" by default. This is what I predicted would happen and Overstock is not an enemy or competition. Bitshares has to find it's niche and the niche is that you can trade value over Bitshares without regulation while Overstock will have to be in a niche of their own and that niche is they must be regulated. Overstock is a centralized company which will have to use KYC, AML and follow all sorts of legal regulations.
Overstock will lower development costs for the Bitshares X team because all of their solutions can be used by Bitshares X. Bitshares X is not trying to trade legal securities so when Overstock develops their solution Bitshares X can simply connect to it like it's a Gateway.
You do realize that kyc/aml will also be used in bitsharesX, at least it for the fiat on ramp. It was mentioned a few times in the referral program talks as a way to verify individuals.
My hope is that what follows for BitSharesX is a renewed focus on utility of BitUSD and partnerships (OB?), fiat on/off-ramps/cross chain trading/debit cards/bill payment etc...and marketing all of this.
+5%
Well said GaltReport
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I am aware that if you interact with fiat you have to do KYC and AML. You don't have to do that for Bitshares X itself but for the on-ramps and off-ramps.
I know about the referral plan. I recommend the Bitshares team get in touch with Coinkite.
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I am aware that if you interact with fiat you have to do KYC and AML. You don't have to do that for Bitshares X itself but for the on-ramps and off-ramps.
I know about the referral plan. I recommend the Bitshares team get in touch with Coinkite.
What is KYC & AML ?
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I am aware that if you interact with fiat you have to do KYC and AML. You don't have to do that for Bitshares X itself but for the on-ramps and off-ramps.
I know about the referral plan. I recommend the Bitshares team get in touch with Coinkite.
What is KYC & AML ?
KYL is know your customer. Meaning they will need to verify identity and collect personal details. Not sure what AML is, guessing it's a similar privacy stealing idea.
e: So that they can report suspicious activity, and for tax purposes
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AML Anti Money Laundering
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so Overstock will build his own exchange? who cares?
they can fight the legal stuff in the US for us and we will piggypeg.
bytemaster wrote already what steps are needed to make a cryptosecurity already possible. nothing changed.
the spikes in "counterparty" are like the twitter mistake on the exchanges. just some people buying without understanding anything.
it is not always black and white and in some fields we will use Overstock and in some fields we will fight them.
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I am aware that if you interact with fiat you have to do KYC and AML. You don't have to do that for Bitshares X itself but for the on-ramps and off-ramps.
I know about the referral plan. I recommend the Bitshares team get in touch with Coinkite.
What is KYC & AML ?
Yeah, from the context of the comments I thought as much.
This is where the rubber meets the road. If you want to grow and appeal to the masses it seems you have to give up privacy. Well, that's the proposition, but do we? I certainly can see cases for a "yes" answer, but I don't like the proposition - at all.
This is a basic philosophical conundrum. It was the wedge that got us the "Patriot" Act. It may be mankind's Achilles heel.
People flock to incentives. What is an incentive for one man is not for another. Unfortunately the incentives for people who don't value privacy as much far outnumber those that do.
It's really hard to understand I3's overall principles regarding privacy if KYC & AML policies are baked into the code along with TITAN and all transactions using different encryption keys.
The only reason I could explain those two concepts being used in the same tool is that accommodating KYC & AML to appease government regulators is a different class of privacy than peer to peer privacy or privacy for non government entities.
But one defeats the purpose of the other IMO. The power to track finances is the power to control them as well. It is the disincentive government uses for undesirable transactions and the incentive for where they want your money to go (like the rigged stock market).
I can't answer the question of whether BitShares should accommodate KYC & AML. If I had to vote for delegates on that issue I would be aligned with those that don't, but I am not in a position to know if enough money will flow without that support to tank the whole bitshares experiment.
Right now there's been minimal government intervention regarding bitcoin. But now that the blockchain technology genie is out of the bag governments will be more on guard and will look down the road further to gauge the effects of crypto efforts. I just hope they're slow enough to react to allow us to gain market share momentum to stave off gov. aggression.
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the spikes in "counterparty" are like the twitter mistake on the exchanges. just some people buying without understanding anything.
reminds me of darkcoin going crazy because people think it's related to darkwallet :)
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the spikes in "counterparty" are like the twitter mistake on the exchanges. just some people buying without understanding anything.
reminds me of darkcoin going crazy because people think it's related to darkwallet :)
Eventhough I had a hard time pulling myself away from the thrilling spectacle of a progress bar showing the transfer of a multi terabyte copy over my lan, I somehow managed to find some time to look into this counterparty medici thing.
I've come the conclusion that nobody seems to know what is going on exactly, or are not telling what they know. Counterparty itself seems to think the exchange will be a counterparty-app, but several other sources and crypto-press have stated the exact opposite by specifically mentioning a new solution being built. So the medici project will either use xrp, or it will not. Hope this helps.
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So the medici project will either use xrp, or it will not. Hope this helps.
Luckily, there is no such thing as "negative information" (at least in non-quantum information theory)
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the spikes in "counterparty" are like the twitter mistake on the exchanges. just some people buying without understanding anything.
reminds me of darkcoin going crazy because people think it's related to darkwallet :)
can they not do identical "mistakes" with bitshares?
edit:
PS sometimes I wish we had a name like ebay.shares :P
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reminds me of darkcoin going crazy because people think it's related to darkwallet :)
Oh is THAT why Darkcoin made that big move up? I never knew. I just sold my darkcoin and bought bitshares when it happened. :D
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can they not do identical "mistakes" with bitshares?
edit:
PS sometimes I wish we had a name like ebay.shares :P
lol
you CAN by bitcoin.shares in bitshares ... it's called bitBTC ;D
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This is what PhantomPhreak (Adam Krellenstein) wrote here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=395761.msg9115341#msg9115341 :
Everybody, there is an enormous amount of misinformation going around in the press. We're working to fix that ASAP. In the meantime, please help us correct errors as you see them!
For the record:
1) Overstock.com and Counterparty are partnering to build a platform (Medici) for trading stocks on Counterparty and using Counterparty's decentralized exchange.
2) I, along with Ouziel (JahPowerBit), will continue working on the Counterparty protocol full-time. Robby and Evan will continue to work on Counterparty full-time because Medici is a front-end for Counterparty.
The Wired and Coindesk articles make it sound as though we are abandoning this project. Nothing could be further from the truth!
Thank you,
Adam
I think this is good news for our community, as Bytemaster pointed out in this thread, Counterparty platform is too slow and transactions cost is too high to be a real competitor for BitSharesX. The work on the legal side they are going to do should benefit entire crypto finance industry.
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This is what PhantomPhreak (Adam Krellenstein) wrote here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=395761.msg9115341#msg9115341 :
Everybody, there is an enormous amount of misinformation going around in the press. We're working to fix that ASAP. In the meantime, please help us correct errors as you see them!
For the record:
1) Overstock.com and Counterparty are partnering to build a platform (Medici) for trading stocks on Counterparty and using Counterparty's decentralized exchange.
2) I, along with Ouziel (JahPowerBit), will continue working on the Counterparty protocol full-time. Robby and Evan will continue to work on Counterparty full-time because Medici is a front-end for Counterparty.
The Wired and Coindesk articles make it sound as though we are abandoning this project. Nothing could be further from the truth!
Thank you,
Adam
I think this is good news for our community, as Bytemaster pointed out in this thread, Counterparty platform is too slow and transactions cost is too high to be a real competitor for BitSharesX. The work on the legal side they are going to do should benefit entire crypto finance industry.
is there anything keeping them from "upgrading" counterparty's tech in some way that xcp is no longer really counterparty...and then keeping the name for brand recognition?
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is there anything keeping them from "upgrading" counterparty's tech in some way that xcp is no longer really counterparty...and then keeping the name for brand recognition?
technically that's nothing more than 100% airdop on XCP using i.e. DPOS .. however, they need to find community consensus amongst counterparty users ..
once overstook is in .. that might be close to impossible (IMHO)
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what to expect?
in the first announcement both sides Overstock and Counterparty are as far away as possible. So i am thinking they have already problems in their realtionsship.
Medici will not be open source - i could bet on that.
It is nice done from Counterparty to take this big fish.
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what to expect?
in the first announcement both sides Overstock and Counterparty are as far away as possible. So i am thinking they have already problems in their realtionsship.
Medici will not be open source - i could bet on that.
It is nice done from Counterparty to take this big fish.
This is an easy task since xcp is the only 2.0 that doesn't threaten bitcoin and the mining cartels. How many moves ahead is byrnes and team thinking in this game of chess?
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This news feels like a bummer, but when I think about it:
- Them picking NXT would be truly insulting
- They fight legal issues while BTSX breaks down borders
- DACs will prevail, and that's why they're not really a competitor
- Plot twist: Byrne already knows this
I'm not necessarily here for DPOS or a specific DAC. I'm here because BTS will be the best DAC launchpad, and DACs are the future.
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BTS will be the best DAC launchpad, and DACs are the future.
Once someone is a gazillionair from DACs they can do a hostile takeover of OverStock and point their crypto strategy in the right direction.
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It gives counterparty a moment in the limelight. Bitshares-X's time to shine is yet to come.
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Bitshares-X's time to shine is yet to come.
I'd say 6-8 weeks :)
BAM!
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$10 says they're gonna use peershares
Has anyone gotten their 10 bitUSD from toast yet?
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$10 says they're gonna use peershares
Has anyone gotten their 10 bitUSD from toast yet?
i think he is in vegas to make it big or go broke, to pay us all 10 bitUSD :)
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If i where toast i would burn 10$ worth of btsx ;)
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BTS will be the best DAC launchpad, and DACs are the future.
Once someone is a gazillionair from DACs they can do a hostile takeover of OverStock and point their crypto strategy in the right direction.
+5%
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This news feels like a bummer, but when I think about it:- Them picking NXT would be truly insulting
- They fight legal issues while BTSX breaks down borders
- DACs will prevail, and that's why they're not really a competitor
- Plot twist: Byrne already knows this
I'm not necessarily here for DPOS or a specific DAC. I'm here because BTS will be the best DAC launchpad, and DACs are the future.
What about Ethereum? Hate to burst your bubble, but Ethereum has a WAY greater potential for being the best DAC launchpad considering the amount of funding and momentum behind it....
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This news feels like a bummer, but when I think about it:- Them picking NXT would be truly insulting
- They fight legal issues while BTSX breaks down borders
- DACs will prevail, and that's why they're not really a competitor
- Plot twist: Byrne already knows this
I'm not necessarily here for DPOS or a specific DAC. I'm here because BTS will be the best DAC launchpad, and DACs are the future.
What about Ethereum? Hate to burst your bubble, but Ethereum has a WAY greater potential for being the best DAC launchpad considering the amount of funding and momentum behind it....
Could you expand on that? I've been trying to figure out what people think is so great about Ethereum, but I have not been able to find anything substantial. To be honest it seems to be mostly people projecting vague desires and fantasies onto the project.
Seeing how bitcoins scripting language is hardly being used, let alone being taxed to its limit, the market for blockchain scripting does not appear to be as popular as speculators seem to think it is. I wonder how many of the supporters of projects like ethereum are actually feeling personally limited by bitcoins scripting language or even tried using it, do they even have a clue what they are buying into?
Would be nice to know what exactly people think extended blockchain scripting will enable other than snakeoil magic-elixir nonsense.
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This news feels like a bummer, but when I think about it:- Them picking NXT would be truly insulting
- They fight legal issues while BTSX breaks down borders
- DACs will prevail, and that's why they're not really a competitor
- Plot twist: Byrne already knows this
I'm not necessarily here for DPOS or a specific DAC. I'm here because BTS will be the best DAC launchpad, and DACs are the future.
What about Ethereum? Hate to burst your bubble, but Ethereum has a WAY greater potential for being the best DAC launchpad considering the amount of funding and momentum behind it....
Yes, but that's not considering it's economic viability.....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I blv the biggest thing with ethereum is that its turing complete and that scripts can run loops and other logic as building blocks similar to a calculator that has state.. so computers were formed and thus the internet.. similarily the idea isrhat turing complete scripts open up a gateway of endless possibilities for a new internet... bitcoins scripts are oneshot so offer limited scope.
However the question is how strong is the security around the scripts as noone has been able to do it this far and if it grows incentive to break it will to.
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The ether is a term to describe where investor funds went :P
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However the question is how strong is the security around the scripts as noone has been able to do it this far and if it grows incentive to break it will to.
I agree. Many of Ethereum's strengths are also its weaknesses. Having one big chain that does everything means one big target for malicious attacks.. so if any weaknesses are found in the security of its scripts they could be exploited and cause significant damage. Obviously this is all conjecture until its released though.
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However the question is how strong is the security around the scripts as noone has been able to do it this far and if it grows incentive to break it will to.
I agree. Many of Ethereum's strengths are also its weaknesses. Having one big chain that does everything means one big target for malicious attacks.. so if any weaknesses are found in the security of its scripts they could be exploited and cause significant damage. Obviously this is all conjecture until its released though.
We shall see as intelligent as he is there may be an exploit that someone finds sooner or later...
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This news feels like a bummer, but when I think about it:- Them picking NXT would be truly insulting
- They fight legal issues while BTSX breaks down borders
- DACs will prevail, and that's why they're not really a competitor
- Plot twist: Byrne already knows this
I'm not necessarily here for DPOS or a specific DAC. I'm here because BTS will be the best DAC launchpad, and DACs are the future.
What about Ethereum? Hate to burst your bubble, but Ethereum has a WAY greater potential for being the best DAC launchpad considering the amount of funding and momentum behind it....
Sure it has potential, but they haven't launched anything yet. They haven't even decided on a mining algorithm and here we are already running the first DAC and multiple other DACs on the horizon. The longer they delay the more momentum and funding we gain.
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This news feels like a bummer, but when I think about it:- Them picking NXT would be truly insulting
- They fight legal issues while BTSX breaks down borders
- DACs will prevail, and that's why they're not really a competitor
- Plot twist: Byrne already knows this
I'm not necessarily here for DPOS or a specific DAC. I'm here because BTS will be the best DAC launchpad, and DACs are the future.
What about Ethereum? Hate to burst your bubble, but Ethereum has a WAY greater potential for being the best DAC launchpad considering the amount of funding and momentum behind it....
Etherum as far as I know is POW(dead in the water) , one chain approach ... let see how this think will scale up first then we'll see what is the best approach. By the time Etherum will be out, many Bitsahres will be on the market.
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being turing complete is far bigger than any mining algo etc dumb money would dump it based on a miming algo.. smart money is waiting fir features that matter thrn extrapolate
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being turing complete is far bigger than any mining algo etc dumb money would dump it based on a miming algo.. smart money is waiting fir features that matter thrn extrapolate
Imagine someone knocks on your door one day and begin telling you about how amazing this new vaccum is. He tells you it its going to do all these different amazing things. In fact he has now sold you your own amazing vaccuum.
So he takes you money, goes to the car, take out a peace of paper and draw said vaccuum. Then he delivers this to your door:
"We will get this magical vaccuum to you soon" he explains. "It might be completely different from what i described because we havent actually designed anything...but we'll promise that we have the best talent and they will build your magical vaccum. And we'll get one to you as soon as its completed."
Then he leaves...
Now you are on the forum of another vaccuum manufacturer who actually has released a product that does much of what was promised by your ethereal vaccuum...
You are holding your sheet of paper with the crayon-drawn Magic-vac, waiving it around and telling people this beautiful creation is going to blow their world away. Meanwhile they are using their real, designed, engineered and produced products to do the actual job a sweeper was meant to do. And you are waiting for your picture to serve you toast and tea.
Look at the crayon on that paper now. Feel the power of its colored wax and take comfort in the fact that the salesman insisted it will make you supper and do pretty much anything else you want. Unfortunately...the competition (i3) is actually vaccuming.
So of you are having a hard time with your claims being accepted here. Try rolling up that sheet of paper into a cone. Then speak through the little end with the open end facing us. And most of all be patient:
..everyone here is busy cleaning house with real, powerful vaccuums that actually exist...and its so powerful that it is very loud.
Real vaccuums make a lot of noise.
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being turing complete is far bigger than any mining algo etc dumb money would dump it based on a miming algo.. smart money is waiting fir features that matter thrn extrapolate
Imagine someone knocks on your door one day and begin telling you about how amazing this new vaccum is. He tells you it its going to do all these different amazing things. In fact he has now sold you your own amazing vaccuum.
So he takes you money, goes to the car, take out a peace of paper and draw said vaccuum. Then he delivers this to your door:
"We will get this magical vaccuum to you soon" he explains. "It might be completely different from what i described because we havent actually designed anything...but we'll promise that we have the best talent and they will build your magical vaccum. And we'll get one to you as soon as its completed."
Then he leaves...
Now you are on the forum of another vaccuum manufacturer who actually has released a product that does much of what was promised by your ethereal vaccuum...
You are holding your sheet of paper with the crayon-drawn Magic-vac, waiving it around and telling people this beautiful creation is going to blow their world away. Meanwhile they are using their real, designed, engineered and produced products to do the actual job a sweeper was meant to do. And you are waiting for your picture to serve you toast and tea.
Look at the crayon on that paper now. Feel the power of its colored wax and take comfort in the fact that the salesman insisted it will make you supper and do pretty much anything else you want. Unfortunately...the competition (i3) is actually vaccuming.
So of you are having a hard time with your claims being accepted here. Try rolling up that sheet of paper into a cone. Then speak through the little end with the open end facing us. And most of all be patient:
..everyone here is busy cleaning house with real, powerful vaccuums that actually exist...and its so powerful that it is very loud.
Real vaccuums make a lot of noise.
enjoyed reading it :) :)
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Lol...
Sounds about right!
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Quite the shaggy dog story but enjoyable none the less.
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This is what PhantomPhreak (Adam Krellenstein) wrote here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=395761.msg9115341#msg9115341 :
Everybody, there is an enormous amount of misinformation going around in the press. We're working to fix that ASAP. In the meantime, please help us correct errors as you see them!
For the record:
1) Overstock.com and Counterparty are partnering to build a platform (Medici) for trading stocks on Counterparty and using Counterparty's decentralized exchange.
2) I, along with Ouziel (JahPowerBit), will continue working on the Counterparty protocol full-time. Robby and Evan will continue to work on Counterparty full-time because Medici is a front-end for Counterparty.
The Wired and Coindesk articles make it sound as though we are abandoning this project. Nothing could be further from the truth!
Thank you,
Adam
I think this is good news for our community, as Bytemaster pointed out in this thread, Counterparty platform is too slow and transactions cost is too high to be a real competitor for BitSharesX. The work on the legal side they are going to do should benefit entire crypto finance industry.
is there anything keeping them from "upgrading" counterparty's tech in some way that xcp is no longer really counterparty...and then keeping the name for brand recognition?
My only fear is that they figure out how to use Open Transaction federated servers to track the Counterparty Open Assets. That way the Assets would be verifiably on the BTC blockchain and could be traded even faster than BTSX assets. Various issues such as BTC blockchain bloat and Open Transactions centralization might remain an issue even in that scenario.
OT is supppsed to come out in December, so who knows what happens.
The irony of course is that BTSX delegates might become the most trusted OT servers.
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This is what PhantomPhreak (Adam Krellenstein) wrote here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=395761.msg9115341#msg9115341 :
Everybody, there is an enormous amount of misinformation going around in the press. We're working to fix that ASAP. In the meantime, please help us correct errors as you see them!
For the record:
1) Overstock.com and Counterparty are partnering to build a platform (Medici) for trading stocks on Counterparty and using Counterparty's decentralized exchange.
2) I, along with Ouziel (JahPowerBit), will continue working on the Counterparty protocol full-time. Robby and Evan will continue to work on Counterparty full-time because Medici is a front-end for Counterparty.
The Wired and Coindesk articles make it sound as though we are abandoning this project. Nothing could be further from the truth!
Thank you,
Adam
I think this is good news for our community, as Bytemaster pointed out in this thread, Counterparty platform is too slow and transactions cost is too high to be a real competitor for BitSharesX. The work on the legal side they are going to do should benefit entire crypto finance industry.
is there anything keeping them from "upgrading" counterparty's tech in some way that xcp is no longer really counterparty...and then keeping the name for brand recognition?
My only fear is that they figure out how to use Open Transaction federated servers to track the Counterparty Open Assets. That way the Assets would be verifiably on the BTC blockchain and could be traded even faster than BTSX assets. Various issues such as BTC blockchain bloat and Open Transactions centralization might remain an issue even in that scenario.
OT is supppsed to come out in December, so who knows what happens.
The irony of course is that BTSX delegates might become the most trusted OT servers.
Did they finally get that OT for grandma client out... wasnt there supposed to be like a 500btc bounty for that lol.. i doubt its still valid.
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Very creative ticklebiscuit and not far from how I came to see the ethereum-ipo back when I never even heard of bitshares before. Don't tell anyone, but I ony discovered bitshares because I was excited about Ethereum and doing research on it.
One of my bigger gripes with Ethereum, apart from the POW and single blockchain, is that the proposed plan was for the IPO to pay for bounties for yet unsolved problems that the project needs solved. When I read that I was like :o , oookaaay. Ticklebiscuits analogy is pretty close to the actual proposed roadmap.
I might be biased though, seeing how I use a javascript blocking plugin for my webbrowsers. Had the project not been pow based, single blockchain and coated with less Microsoftian Applesque Walledgardenism Middleman-(bordering-parasite)-syndrome rhetoric, I might still have retained some of my earlier excitement about it.
Back to bitshares-toolkit and dpos, you'd think the database on a blockchain implementation complete with extended database operations would garner some attention. Looking at internet analogies, because many in crypto love those, database operations are not the smallest building block on the internet so having that capability on a blockchain could prove quite useful.
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The Revolution Always Eats Its Own... Even if they are turtles...
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The Revolution Always Eats Its Own... Even if they are turtles...
Hmm, is Patrick making turtle soup?
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The Revolution Always Eats Its Own... Even if they are turtles...
Hmm, is Patrick making turtle soup?
No, he just makes sure that his own turtle is a true turtle and cannot move fast enough...
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Slow turtles...are slow.
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Thanks for your responses. @JoeyD. Why do you think bitshares is where you landed?
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I think I am finally starting to better understand what Patrick Byrne with Overstock might be trying to do and what he want to "own". This coin telegraph article helped me a lot:
http://cointelegraph.com/news/112699/overstockcom-plans-new-bitcoin-blockchain-based-stock-market
but even with all this, things still seem to be very unclear, lots of details left out, not explicitly stated, most people not yet fully understanding all the details, so I'd love to know what everyone else thinks is going on with the details, and what all this really means.
Maybe Byrne does not want to own counterparty, or the currency, or the open source code base of such. Maybe he just wants to own a legalized exchange for such and that such an exchange need not be open source? In other words, He just wants to own the exchange which will become the interface or onramps between real USD and crypto version of shares of overstock.com. He doesn't want to own counterparty, and the crypto stock market it will be running, he wants to become the first regulated and government approved MtGox for it?
So if this is his strategy, he is not competing with BitsharesX, at all. Since BitsharesX will be easily plug and playable with counterparty in whatever legalized on/off ramp they build for it?
What does everyone else think?
Brent Allsop
Founder http://Canonizer.com
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[conspiracy theory soaked in realism]
1. The government wants their cut of anything that they are not getting their cut of, cryptocurrency issued equities being one of them.
2. Overstock realizes this and the potential of creating a "legal" crypto security market by the letter of the law and regulations.
3. Overstock puts in motion the creation of this "legal" crypto security market and calls upon the government to regulate all of the prior "illegal" securities.
4. Several days later rumors start flying around about the government puts the fear of God into people whom would want to issue crypto securities "illegally" by coming down hard on prior "illegal" securities. (I would not be surprised if this becomes true.)
5. Overstock's existing competition is crushed and newcomers are too scared to even try to issue an "illegal" security, and Overstock has the only remaining "legal" option to creating crypto securities. It will take a budget the size of Overstock to enter the market "legally" just like it costs a boatload for cryptocurrency to FIAT exchanges to operate "legally," and the government gets their cut through taxes, business partnerships/investments, and campaign contributions.
[/conspiracy theory soaked in realism]
I've seen this all before... in the online poker industry.
1. The government kills the competitors in the name of the law
2. "Black Friday" came... the DOJ shut down PokerStars/FTP in the USA
3. USA Corporations subsequently profit from them killing the competition.
4. The Casinos in Nevada and New Jersey subsequently decided (all the sudden right after PS/FTP were shut down): "Hey, we can start our own online poker networks legally.. see this loophole."
5. The American casinos and government profit off of killing the overseas competitors to gain a foothold on the industry.
Don't forget Fincen and the USA cryptocurrency exchanges and Bitcoin ATM operators either... kill the small guys by making it stupidly expensive to conform to the regulations and laws, and give the jobs to the rich and the corporations. Oh and by the way.. the politicians just happen to be rich, the corporations just happen to pay for their campaigns, and the politicians just happen to be investors in the corporations... bureaucracy at its finest. I'm sure the politicians are buying up Overstock equity as I type.
/rant
In other news, it's time to step away from the keyboard. :D
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Very curious to see how they will react to decentralized online poker :D
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Very curious to see how they will react to decentralized online poker :D
I suppose I just needed to vent given today's rumors about the SEC cracking down on various crypto issued securities. The timing of it really strikes me as not being coincidental if it is true though. I will hold off on further comments until something actually happens, as for all we know at this point it is only FUD.
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but even with all this, things still seem to be very unclear, lots of details left out, not explicitly stated, most people not yet fully understanding all the details, so I'd love to know what everyone else thinks is going on with the details, and what all this really means.
Brent Allsop
Founder http://Canonizer.com (http://Canonizer.com)
I find this typical of the speeches by CEO's of large companies. Their presentation is sharp, on point, and impactful. It's not until hours or days later you start to realize you're left with more questions than answers and couldn't really pin him down to anything other than a strong interest in a crypto securities market and the willingness to spend millions on it.
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Essentially they are non technical and dont want you to see through their bs so their talks are reviewed to death and have an agenda.. some ppl can pick it up right away and sometimes in the market it pays to read them for their truth asap.
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Reminds me of the dot.com era when people made presentations like that and got funded blindly. You'd look at their website and read all their stuff and at the end you'd be left with the question: So, what the hell do you do?