Poll
Question:
On the latest mumble bytemaster said they could implement a BitCNY/USD gaming app in the client like bingo
Option 1: NO - Bad publicity is bad publicity right now because we are too small and we don't want to ruin our rep!
votes: 77
Option 2: YES - any publicity is good publicity right now because we are so small that we need to grow to be more fork resistant!
votes: 32
On the latest mumble, Bytemaster said that if BitShares was mentioned on too many mainstream media outlets or received too many new client downloads, then we could just remove the app it and keep the publicity.
BitShares Bingo would be to Bitshares what Solitaire is to Windows. A favorite program of some.
BitCNY gaming is real CNY because BTC38 is a gateway for real CNY
If anyone wants to drive BTS out of China and lost the only major fiat portal we could ever have in at least 6 months and ruin all the hard working promotion effort with serious VC investors , please do this .
Otherwise , don't .
No gambling should be on BTS wallet , period .
I've already obtained opinion from experienced lawyers .
I think when it would make a good seperate mobile app when the lite client is ready. But definitely not integrated in the the main app.
Quote from: cn-members on February 02, 2015, 06:06:01 PM
If anyone wants to drive BTS out of China and lost the only major fiat portal we could ever have in at least 6 months and ruin all the hard working promotion effort with serious VC investors , please do this .
Otherwise , don't .
No gambling should be on BTS wallet , period .
I've already obtained opinion from experienced lawyers .
Agreed.. what about the BTS blockchain?
I can't vote as the reason for "no" isn't the reason I would give.
I don't think any new features are needed, just wallet stability/speed/easy use, including making it visually compatible with forex software/existing CFD platform formats.
I wouldn't be able to play the bingo anyway because apparently my 2 year old mac-mini is too primitive to run BitShares properly. I've been told its my hardware that's the problem, and that the light client solves the problem, but it doesn't because the light client wont support the exchange features for some time.
There must be ways to improve it to reduce the hardware requirements. I don't care about any other stuff being added.
Quote from: bytemaster on February 02, 2015, 06:08:50 PM
Quote from: cn-members on February 02, 2015, 06:06:01 PM
If anyone wants to drive BTS out of China and lost the only major fiat portal we could ever have in at least 6 months and ruin all the hard working promotion effort with serious VC investors , please do this .
Otherwise , don't .
No gambling should be on BTS wallet , period .
I've already obtained opinion from experienced lawyers .
Agreed.. what about the BTS blockchain?
you mean a different looking and branding wallet using the BTS chain ?
Quote from: cn-members on February 02, 2015, 06:13:51 PM
Quote from: bytemaster on February 02, 2015, 06:08:50 PM
Quote from: cn-members on February 02, 2015, 06:06:01 PM
If anyone wants to drive BTS out of China and lost the only major fiat portal we could ever have in at least 6 months and ruin all the hard working promotion effort with serious VC investors , please do this .
Otherwise , don't .
No gambling should be on BTS wallet , period .
I've already obtained opinion from experienced lawyers .
Agreed.. what about the BTS blockchain?
you mean a different looking and branding wallet using the BTS chain ?
Yes
I thought this was an excellent idea, and I believe the risk/reward ratio is highly in our favor. Bytemaster said that by the end of the year, anyone will be able to do this with smart contracts anyways, so the concerns about potential "regulatory crackdown" for gambling are a moot point. To turn down the opportunity to create some desperately needed utility for bitAssets at this point would be foolish.
As for user adoption, think about how many people play "bingo" instant lottery tickets. Hundreds of thousands? Millions? Imagine if they found out that they could play them online, using real money, to win real money. A lightweight wallet that you could fund and then play? And completely decentralized, so people from every country in the world would be driving the jackpots higher and higher. The upside potential is huge, considering the 80 hours it would take to implement. (bytemaster's estimate).
Quote from: bytemaster on February 02, 2015, 06:08:50 PM
Quote from: cn-members on February 02, 2015, 06:06:01 PM
If anyone wants to drive BTS out of China and lost the only major fiat portal we could ever have in at least 6 months and ruin all the hard working promotion effort with serious VC investors , please do this .
Otherwise , don't .
No gambling should be on BTS wallet , period .
I've already obtained opinion from experienced lawyers .
Agreed.. what about the BTS blockchain?
If the blockchain just had a function to produce a trustless random number, I don't think this implicates anything like gambling or what would be consider illegal anywhere. Then a 3rd party could use this function to produce whatever they wanted. though probably a little more complicated than just a random number, I'm guessing this is what your getting at?
I think anything like this needs to be done by a third party, not by anyone with 'official' ties to bitshares.
Quote from: Xeldal on February 02, 2015, 06:17:47 PM
Quote from: bytemaster on February 02, 2015, 06:08:50 PM
Quote from: cn-members on February 02, 2015, 06:06:01 PM
If anyone wants to drive BTS out of China and lost the only major fiat portal we could ever have in at least 6 months and ruin all the hard working promotion effort with serious VC investors , please do this .
Otherwise , don't .
No gambling should be on BTS wallet , period .
I've already obtained opinion from experienced lawyers .
Agreed.. what about the BTS blockchain?
If the blockchain just had a function to produce a trustless random number, I don't think this implicates anything like gambling or what would be consider illegal anywhere. Then a 3rd party could use this function to produce whatever they wanted. though probably a little more complicated than just a random number, I'm guessing this is what your getting at?
It already produces the random number, the key is whether or not it "settles" the gamble and whether the profits from the gambling accrue to BTS.
Seeing as that BM realises BTS is about to fail and is putting it in as a desperate step, everybody should vote yes.
Quote from: crypto_prometheus on February 02, 2015, 06:16:54 PM
I thought this was an excellent idea, and I believe the risk/reward ratio is highly in our favor. Bytemaster said that by the end of the year, anyone will be able to do this with smart contracts anyways, so the concerns about potential "regulatory crackdown" for gambling are a moot point. To turn down the opportunity to create some desperately needed utility for bitAssets at this point would be foolish.
As for user adoption, think about how many people play "bingo" instant lottery tickets. Hundreds of thousands? Millions? Imagine if they found out that they could play them online, using real money, to win real money. A lightweight wallet that you could fund and then play? And completely decentralized, so people from every country in the world would be driving the jackpots higher and higher. The upside potential is huge, considering the 80 hours it would take to implement. (bytemaster's estimate).
Without a major fiat portal to support the price of BTS , do you really think BTA can be used by millions of users ?
Until the fully decentralized trading status achieved (tens of thousands of gateways around the world) , we shouldn't be gambling with the only fiat portal at hand , period .
BTA relies on BTS .
Quote from: sumantso on February 02, 2015, 06:48:12 PM
Seeing as that BM realises BTS is about to fail and is putting it in as a desperate step, everybody should vote yes.
Quote from: sumantso on February 02, 2015, 06:48:12 PM
Seeing as that BM realises BTS is about to fail and is putting it in as a desperate step, everybody should vote yes.
Why would you think this??
Quote from: sumantso on February 02, 2015, 06:48:12 PM
Seeing as that BM realises BTS is about to fail and is putting it in as a desperate step, everybody should vote yes.
spoiler alert : BTS is gonna go viral in several months due to some major promotion effort in China , unless we do something to drag their feet . A crowd funding company already got millions of USD of VC to operate their operation on BTS . That's once in a life time opportunity for BTS .
As a matter of fact , all they want is no more surprises , a stable wallet and protocol , everything will work out eventually .
Quote from: cn-members on February 02, 2015, 06:59:06 PM
Quote from: sumantso on February 02, 2015, 06:48:12 PM
Seeing as that BM realises BTS is about to fail and is putting it in as a desperate step, everybody should vote yes.
spoiler alert : BTS is gonna go viral in several months due to some major promotion effort in China , unless we do something to drag their feet . A crowd funding company already got millions of USD of VC to operate their operation on BTS . That's once in a life time opportunity for BTS .
As a matter of fact , all they want is no more surprises , a stable wallet and protocol , everything will work out eventually .
+5%
Quote from: sumantso on February 02, 2015, 06:48:12 PM
Seeing as that BM realises BTS is about to fail and is putting it in as a desperate step, everybody should vote yes.
I agree to the extent it looks a bit desperate that we cant think of other ways of getting people to use the wallet than by putting tacky bingo games into it.
Quote from: cn-members on February 02, 2015, 06:59:06 PM
spoiler alert : BTS is gonna go viral in several months due to some major promotion effort in China , unless we do something to drag their feet . A crowd funding company already got millions of USD of VC to operate their operation on BTS . That's once in a life time opportunity for BTS .
As a matter of fact , all they want is no more surprises , a stable wallet and protocol , everything will work out eventually .
Lol I think we need a bit of NewMine.
No new features in the blockchain!!!!
The things listed here is all we need:
https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares/milestones
All other resources beyond this should be focusing on UX. Unless UX is perfect then NO MORE FEATURES!
Quote from: cylon on February 02, 2015, 06:01:24 PM
On the latest mumble, Bytemaster said that if BitShares was mentioned on too many mainstream media outlets or received too many new client downloads, then we could just remove the app it and keep the publicity.
BitShares Bingo would be to Bitshares what Solitaire is to Windows. A favorite program of some.
BitCNY gaming is real CNY because BTC38 is a gateway for real CNY
Most people love a Solitaire play in Windows. BitShares Bingo is a neat idea. We can have a wallet option that turns on only for some specific countries.
Quote from: cn-members on February 02, 2015, 06:59:06 PM
Quote from: sumantso on February 02, 2015, 06:48:12 PM
Seeing as that BM realises BTS is about to fail and is putting it in as a desperate step, everybody should vote yes.
spoiler alert : BTS is gonna go viral in several months due to some major promotion effort in China , unless we do something to drag their feet . A crowd funding company already got millions of USD of VC to operate their operation on BTS . That's once in a life time opportunity for BTS .
As a matter of fact , all they want is no more surprises , a stable wallet and protocol , everything will work out eventually .
Yes this.
It is quite possible that our excellent chinese marketing and community will manage to take BTS viral provided that:
1) We get a stable release version, lite wallet, etc released in a reasonable time frame, and
2) We don't shoot ourselves in the foot and piss them off all the chinese investors.
Quote from: Ander on February 02, 2015, 07:09:32 PM
Quote from: cn-members on February 02, 2015, 06:59:06 PM
Quote from: sumantso on February 02, 2015, 06:48:12 PM
Seeing as that BM realises BTS is about to fail and is putting it in as a desperate step, everybody should vote yes.
spoiler alert : BTS is gonna go viral in several months due to some major promotion effort in China , unless we do something to drag their feet . A crowd funding company already got millions of USD of VC to operate their operation on BTS . That's once in a life time opportunity for BTS .
As a matter of fact , all they want is no more surprises , a stable wallet and protocol , everything will work out eventually .
Yes this.
It is quite possible that our excellent chinese marketing and community will manage to take BTS viral provided that:
1) We get a stable release version, lite wallet, etc released in a reasonable time frame, and
2) We don't shoot ourselves in the foot and piss them off all the chinese investors.
Agreed . Time frame matters . Etherum will be out in March , and several other projects competing for market space . If 1.0 weren't ready by then , there maybe no second chances to let some of the major investors stay . Now there are only
27 days left .
And we just failed the network again on last Saturday with reasons unknown . As I recall , it's the same issue that hasn't got solved 1 months ago .
It's too luxurious to focus on anything else for the moment , including gambling and BM's blog .
Quote from: cn-members on February 02, 2015, 07:16:41 PM
Agreed . Time frame matters . Etherum will be out in March , and several other projects competing for market space . If 1.0 weren't ready by then , there maybe no second chances to let some of the major investors stay . Now there are only 27 days left .
And we just failed the network again on last Saturday with reasons unknown .
It's to luxurious to focus on anything else for the moment , including gambling and BM's blog .
I fully agree. Get this stable & user-friendly ASAP. Then we can sell it.
Quote from: donkeypong on February 02, 2015, 07:21:14 PM
Quote from: cn-members on February 02, 2015, 07:16:41 PM
Agreed . Time frame matters . Etherum will be out in March , and several other projects competing for market space . If 1.0 weren't ready by then , there maybe no second chances to let some of the major investors stay . Now there are only 27 days left .
And we just failed the network again on last Saturday with reasons unknown .
It's to luxurious to focus on anything else for the moment , including gambling and BM's blog .
I fully agree. Get this stable & user-friendly ASAP. Then we can sell it.
I voted that I support the gambling idea, but in the interests of time I too think it is way more important to get what we have stable and perfect first. BTS gambling can be reconsidered once we're rock solid and looking for new ways to expand the ecosystem.
Also agree about the blog-time. There's just no way that the number of users positively turned on to BTS from the blog justifies the time necessary to prepare posts for it. In fact there's a good chance plenty more potentially-interested users have been fully turned off to BTS due to the controversial nature of several articles...
Quote from: nomoreheroes7 on February 02, 2015, 07:23:27 PM
Quote from: donkeypong on February 02, 2015, 07:21:14 PM
Quote from: cn-members on February 02, 2015, 07:16:41 PM
Agreed . Time frame matters . Etherum will be out in March , and several other projects competing for market space . If 1.0 weren't ready by then , there maybe no second chances to let some of the major investors stay . Now there are only 27 days left .
And we just failed the network again on last Saturday with reasons unknown .
It's to luxurious to focus on anything else for the moment , including gambling and BM's blog .
I fully agree. Get this stable & user-friendly ASAP. Then we can sell it.
I voted that I support the gambling idea, but in the interests of time I too think it is way more important to get what we have stable and perfect first. BTS gambling can be reconsidered once we're rock solid and looking for new ways to expand the ecosystem.
Also agree about the blog-time. There's just no way that the number of users positively turned on to BTS from the blog justifies the time necessary to prepare posts for it. In fact there's a good chance plenty more potentially-interested users have been fully turned off to BTS due to the controversial nature of several articles...
We have a small project that's already turned on some interesting people . A adult product shop accepted BitCNY , and they would do free marketing for us . Over time , people should realize it's not convincing the public that matters , the key is to convince those who can convince the mass . and they'll do the rest for us . Save our energy to produce a solid product , those who really like it , would advocate it for us .
Quote from: cn-members on February 02, 2015, 06:59:06 PM
Quote from: sumantso on February 02, 2015, 06:48:12 PM
Seeing as that BM realises BTS is about to fail and is putting it in as a desperate step, everybody should vote yes.
spoiler alert : BTS is gonna go viral in several months due to some major promotion effort in China , unless we do something to drag their feet . A crowd funding company already got millions of USD of VC to operate their operation on BTS . That's once in a life time opportunity for BTS .
As a matter of fact , all they want is no more surprises , a stable wallet and protocol , everything will work out eventually .
Like the sounds of that! +5%
I'd like blockchain gambling but is a UIA on BTS that is used for gambling OK for BTS in China?
NXT already have 3 gambling UIA's that are in development/beta. Surely we can't stop people from doing what they want with their UIA?
Wasnt the focus on a stable release, a light client, and bitusd? Why always create distractions that are counter-productive in the end?
Quote from: donkeypong on February 02, 2015, 07:21:14 PM
Quote from: cn-members on February 02, 2015, 07:16:41 PM
Agreed . Time frame matters . Etherum will be out in March , and several other projects competing for market space . If 1.0 weren't ready by then , there maybe no second chances to let some of the major investors stay . Now there are only 27 days left .
And we just failed the network again on last Saturday with reasons unknown .
It's to luxurious to focus on anything else for the moment , including gambling and BM's blog .
I fully agree. Get this stable & user-friendly ASAP. Then we can sell it.
This. +5%
I definitely don't want to mess with anything that could damage BTS in China but BTS is supposed to be a Super-DAC not a SuperLimited/Constrained-DAC. It means we need other DACs.
Online - Bitcoin - & now blockchain based gambling is hugely lucrative. If our rockstar developers are capable of & want to add gambling to a DPOS blockchain why should they and we miss out on that value.
There needs to be a third option...discuss again in 6 months.
It wont be the lack of features that prevent people from using BitShares...
Mainstream adoption will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER happen if the product is clunky, buggy, and looks like shit. If you think I'm wrong, point me to an example. THIS SHOULD BE PRIORITY NUMBER 1. Trading in the decentralized market should be as smooth, clean, and simple as trading on Bter. Looks matter. CLI functions, even if can be used by power users, should be considered as non-existent, and never advertised. If its not easy to use, for all practical purposes, it doesn't exist. Who do we want to attract, upper class business folks, or degenerate gamblers looking for their Bingo fix??
Quote from: sschechter on February 02, 2015, 08:16:24 PM
There needs to be a third option...discuss again in 6 months.
It wont be the lack of features that prevent people from using BitShares...
Mainstream adoption will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER happen if the product is clunky, buggy, and looks like shit. If you think I'm wrong, point me to an example. THIS SHOULD BE PRIORITY NUMBER 1. Trading in the decentralized market should be as smooth, clean, and simple as trading on Bter. Looks matter. CLI functions, even if can be used by power users, should be considered as non-existent, and never advertised. If its not easy to use, for all practical purposes, it doesn't exist. Who do we want to attract, upper class business folks, or degenerate gamblers looking for their Bingo fix??
Yup.
I agree with 'Discuss this again in several months".
Get the stable client and lite wallet that we need NOW out asap. We have tons of good ideas already. We need execution on these ideas more than we need more ideas right now.
Quote from: Ander on February 02, 2015, 08:22:18 PM
I agree with 'Discuss this again in several months".
Get the stable client and lite wallet that we need NOW out asap. We have tons of good ideas already. We need execution on these ideas more than we need more ideas right now.
+5% +5%
Quote from: inarizushi on February 02, 2015, 08:24:00 PM
Quote from: Ander on February 02, 2015, 08:22:18 PM
I agree with 'Discuss this again in several months".
Get the stable client and lite wallet that we need NOW out asap. We have tons of good ideas already. We need execution on these ideas more than we need more ideas right now.
+5% +5%
I agree with these, except that six months is a long time in crypto. Let's discuss it again in two or three months' time.
Quote from: sschechter on February 02, 2015, 08:16:24 PM
Mainstream adoption will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER happen if the product is clunky, buggy, and looks like shit. If you think I'm wrong, point me to an example.
Bitcoin.
Their product took ages to download, didn't look great and it takes ages to confirm a transaction.
In 2012 with an average circa $75 million CAP, over 2.5 million BTC were wagered on simple gambling games. http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2013/01/22/bitcoin-casinos-release-2012-earnings/
& in the following year, billions of dollars were wagered at Just-Dice.com. Gambling really helped bootstrap it and gave it a recreational use, up to 60% of transactions in the bootstrapping phase all the way to last year were gambling transactions.
Quote from: cn-members on February 02, 2015, 06:59:06 PM
Quote from: sumantso on February 02, 2015, 06:48:12 PM
Seeing as that BM realises BTS is about to fail and is putting it in as a desperate step, everybody should vote yes.
spoiler alert : BTS is gonna go viral in several months due to some major promotion effort in China , unless we do something to drag their feet . A crowd funding company already got millions of USD of VC to operate their operation on BTS . That's once in a life time opportunity for BTS .
As a matter of fact , all they want is no more surprises , a stable wallet and protocol , everything will work out eventually .
Left hand meet right hand. Hope east and west are talking..
Agree with keeping noses clean until some momentum/market share has been gained.
Pure, unhindered functionality is all we need for the first leg up.
Quote from: Rune on February 02, 2015, 07:07:06 PM
No new features in the blockchain!!!!
The things listed here is all we need:
https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares/milestones
All other resources beyond this should be focusing on UX. Unless UX is perfect then NO MORE FEATURES!
+5% +5% +5%
Let's perfect what we have - no more feature creep! Play the long term game - there's no reason why gambling sites/features can't be implemented by third party websites outside of the client anyway.
IMO the client should only be focussed on Bitassets and a smooth seamless, satisfying trading experience.
Quote from: svk on February 02, 2015, 08:09:21 PM
Quote from: donkeypong on February 02, 2015, 07:21:14 PM
Quote from: cn-members on February 02, 2015, 07:16:41 PM
Agreed . Time frame matters . Etherum will be out in March , and several other projects competing for market space . If 1.0 weren't ready by then , there maybe no second chances to let some of the major investors stay . Now there are only 27 days left .
And we just failed the network again on last Saturday with reasons unknown .
It's to luxurious to focus on anything else for the moment , including gambling and BM's blog .
I fully agree. Get this stable & user-friendly ASAP. Then we can sell it.
This. +5%
+5%
I think that this is a fun idea.
But should not be directly associated with Bitshares.
If someone branched bitshares into bingoshares and share-dropped 100% on BTS, I wonder how it would do ;)
Quote from: cn-members on February 02, 2015, 06:59:06 PM
Quote from: sumantso on February 02, 2015, 06:48:12 PM
Seeing as that BM realises BTS is about to fail and is putting it in as a desperate step, everybody should vote yes.
spoiler alert : BTS is gonna go viral in several months due to some major promotion effort in China , unless we do something to drag their feet . A crowd funding company already got millions of USD of VC to operate their operation on BTS . That's once in a life time opportunity for BTS .
As a matter of fact , all they want is no more surprises , a stable wallet and protocol , everything will work out eventually .
which will go viral in China first, bts or bitcny?
Quote from: roadscape on February 02, 2015, 09:37:55 PM
If someone branched bitshares into bingoshares and share-dropped 100% on BTS, I wonder how it would do ;)
Well bingoshares specifically would not do too well imo. But BETShares that incl. bingo but could add other gambling games too that was sharedropped to BTS maybe over a few months. Yes please.
Way too big of a distraction from the core feature set. I figure development efforts are better spent on:
1) Bitshares Projects tab where stakeholders instead of voting on delegates vote on project funding (lighthouse features)
2) Bitcoin wallet features
3) Shapeshift exchange features
There is a race going on and distractions at the moment are detrimental. We know how important first movers are in this space. Whoever creates the first "smart wallet" which allows all kinds of diversification secured by crypto-p2p technology wins. Bitshares is currently winning this race but cannot afford distractions.
Quote from: rb2 on February 02, 2015, 07:55:05 PM
Wasnt the focus on a stable release, a light client, and bitusd? Why always create distractions that are counter-productive in the end?
+5%
Until there is a web wallet available I don't see how any resources should be wasted on gambling on the BTS client. Let someone else do it. You all have more important things to do.
Who gives a #%€# about Solitaire on Windows?
Quote from: cn-members on February 02, 2015, 06:06:01 PM
If anyone wants to drive BTS out of China and lost the only major fiat portal we could ever have in at least 6 months and ruin all the hard working promotion effort with serious VC investors , please do this .
Otherwise , don't .
No gambling should be on BTS wallet , period .
I've already obtained opinion from experienced lawyers .
+5%
In the process of the blockchain technology development, ONLY BTS has been run in the main chain. We don't want to rollback in the future.
I think enabling adoption is as useful as trying to directly force adoption with some half-baked notion of what is a good idea.
Integrating gaming into BTS blockchain is really not a good idea.
BTS is a decentralized exchange like we are describing on the new official site and supposed to do for business what BTC is doing for money like we used to say. Every effort should be led to this direction.
Not to mention it would put the current BTS promotions in danger, gaming on BTS is just To kill the Goose That Laid the Golden Eggs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Goose_That_Laid_the_Golden_Eggs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Goose_That_Laid_the_Golden_Eggs)
relaying information from TradeBTS and several other major members of the Chinese community :
No matter it's on the BTS wallet or just on the blockchain , if this thing go through , they'll have to stop running their business and plans for BTS .
It's a legal risk for all of them .
I haven't talked to the exchanges yet , but I guess they would have the same worry .
Quote from: Empirical1.2 on February 02, 2015, 08:10:53 PM
I definitely don't want to mess with anything that could damage BTS in China but BTS is supposed to be a Super-DAC not a SuperLimited/Constrained-DAC. It means we need other DACs.
Online - Bitcoin - & now blockchain based gambling is hugely lucrative. If our rockstar developers are capable of & want to add gambling to a DPOS blockchain why should they and we miss out on that value.
nope , 3 months ago , it was BM himself said gambling in super-dac would be a "political incorrect" idea .
Quote from: Rune on February 02, 2015, 07:07:06 PM
No new features in the blockchain!!!!
The things listed here is all we need:
https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares/milestones
All other resources beyond this should be focusing on UX. Unless UX is perfect then NO MORE FEATURES!
Agree！ +5%
Quote from: cn-members on February 03, 2015, 02:24:47 AM
nope , 3 months ago , it was BM himself said gambling in super-dac would be a "political incorrect" idea .
The sudden latching onto this by BM shows me he is realizing we are in a desperate situation. The merger happened after he figured out that BTSX was in trouble and it gave a temporary lifeline. Now he sees gambling as a way to prop it up.
BTC is about to take a massive dive. If as expected it pulls down BTS with it it means the whole system would collapse on itself as dilution have to be increased to fund the developers. All the while BM would be preaching the BitShares 'philosophy' with the BitAssets gather dust.
Quote from: sumantso on February 03, 2015, 02:30:34 AM
Quote from: cn-members on February 03, 2015, 02:24:47 AM
nope , 3 months ago , it was BM himself said gambling in super-dac would be a "political incorrect" idea .
The sudden latching onto this by BM shows me he is realizing we are in a desperate situation. The merger happened after he figured out that BTSX was in trouble and it gave a temporary lifeline. Now he sees gambling as a way to prop it up.
BTC is about to take a massive dive. If as expected it pulls down BTS with it it means the whole system would collapse on itself as dilution have to be increased to fund the developers. All the while BM would be preaching the BitShares 'philosophy' with the BitAssets gather dust.
I am not trying to pick on you sumantso...but I disagree. I do not think we are in a desperate situation at all. In fact, some things are going on behind the scenes that give me a great deal of confidence moving forward.
One thing I Can say though is that although I have held my tongue about it, I think adding gaming stuff to the wallet is not going to be a good idea...unless done in a VERY limited fashion, or in partnership with the BitShares-based DAC that
specializes in this type of thing.
I can see using it to get people opening the wallet more, like having a "Dice Game" that is very limited. Meaning, for instance, it might have a daily "cooldown" where a user can only try their luck 1 time every 24 hours. There is nothing wrong with mini-games if they are done for he right reasons and done in such a way that invites users and solidifies their perception of what they joined this BitShares community to be a part of---Liberty-loving, free market visionaries. I do agree that the idea came out in a way that was a bit frustrating and carried with it a great deal more than was needed.
Now as for the merger. It was not done well, but it was not done for the reasons you are thinking it was done for. It was done because some of our primary competition wants to be the "platform for everything" to be built on. Unfortunately as that sank in, BM saw only one way moving forward. Unfortunately, our community has not really backed the chains that were supposedly "merged"...yet still existed independently of BTS. We need to extend our vision to make all of this a success...
Quote from: sumantso on February 03, 2015, 02:30:34 AM
Quote from: cn-members on February 03, 2015, 02:24:47 AM
nope , 3 months ago , it was BM himself said gambling in super-dac would be a "political incorrect" idea .
The sudden latching onto this by BM shows me he is realizing we are in a desperate situation. The merger happened after he figured out that BTSX was in trouble and it gave a temporary lifeline. Now he sees gambling as a way to prop it up.
BTC is about to take a massive dive. If as expected it pulls down BTS with it it means the whole system would collapse on itself as dilution have to be increased to fund the developers. All the while BM would be preaching the BitShares 'philosophy' with the BitAssets gather dust.
In China , gamble is public enemy No.1 of every family .
People worry their kids and spouses to gamble away all their savings .
If a mother found out his teenage son spent 100USD on a gambling game easily , she will contact the major media and expose the game provider . Where his son deposit their money , exchanges , gateways , whatever , BTS would turned into a monster in a matter days .
The police would have to act on the complaint .
Anyway , I guess not only China . This thing is controlled in the US as well .
Especially in the Bitcoin dive , it's too risky to risk the only fiat portal we could afford in 6 months .
I still remembers the debit card fiasco . Wanting something doesn't make it true , hard work and serious product will get us out of the jam . Hell , if this had been done in the past months instead of thinking about all those unrealistic plans , we could have stable mobile wallet using in Africa by now with billions of potential BitUSD and BitCNY demands . Our guy in Africa is still waiting a stable protocol and mobile wallet , I have to calm him down and stall him to use our product . (this guy is serious , contact with richest Chinese in Africa )
Why not grab those we can afford right in front of our eyes instead wasting time chasing dreams ?
Quote from: cn-members on February 03, 2015, 02:50:01 AM
Quote from: sumantso on February 03, 2015, 02:30:34 AM
Quote from: cn-members on February 03, 2015, 02:24:47 AM
nope , 3 months ago , it was BM himself said gambling in super-dac would be a "political incorrect" idea .
The sudden latching onto this by BM shows me he is realizing we are in a desperate situation. The merger happened after he figured out that BTSX was in trouble and it gave a temporary lifeline. Now he sees gambling as a way to prop it up.
BTC is about to take a massive dive. If as expected it pulls down BTS with it it means the whole system would collapse on itself as dilution have to be increased to fund the developers. All the while BM would be preaching the BitShares 'philosophy' with the BitAssets gather dust.
In China , gamble is public enemy No.1 of every family .
People worry their kids and spouses to gamble away all their savings .
If a mother found out his teenage son spent 100USD on a gambling game easily , she will contact the major media and expose the game provider . Where his son deposit their money , exchanges , gateways , whatever , BTS would turned into a monster in a matter days .
The police would have to act on the complaint .
Anyway , I guess not only China . This thing is controlled in the US as well .
Especially in the Bitcoin dive , it's too risky to risk the only fiat portal we could afford in 6 months .
I still remembers the debit card fiasco . Wanting something doesn't make it true , hard work and serious product will get us out of the jam . Hell , if this had been done in the past months instead of thinking about all those unrealistic plans , we could have stable mobile wallet using in Africa by now with billions of potential BitUSD and BitCNY demands . Our guy in Africa is still waiting a stable protocol and mobile wallet , I have to calm him down and stall him to use our product . (this guy is serious , contact with richest Chinese in Africa )
Why not grab those we can afford right in front of our eyes instead wasting time chasing dreams ?
I find it ironic that you say gambling is public enemy #1 in china, yet the investment in crypto currencies that we are trying to push is one of the riskiest investments one could make. And if gambling is viewed so horribly in china, why is Macau the biggest gambling center on the planet?
Quote from: lil_jay890 on February 03, 2015, 02:58:32 AM
Quote from: cn-members on February 03, 2015, 02:50:01 AM
Quote from: sumantso on February 03, 2015, 02:30:34 AM
Quote from: cn-members on February 03, 2015, 02:24:47 AM
nope , 3 months ago , it was BM himself said gambling in super-dac would be a "political incorrect" idea .
The sudden latching onto this by BM shows me he is realizing we are in a desperate situation. The merger happened after he figured out that BTSX was in trouble and it gave a temporary lifeline. Now he sees gambling as a way to prop it up.
BTC is about to take a massive dive. If as expected it pulls down BTS with it it means the whole system would collapse on itself as dilution have to be increased to fund the developers. All the while BM would be preaching the BitShares 'philosophy' with the BitAssets gather dust.
In China , gamble is public enemy No.1 of every family .
People worry their kids and spouses to gamble away all their savings .
If a mother found out his teenage son spent 100USD on a gambling game easily , she will contact the major media and expose the game provider . Where his son deposit their money , exchanges , gateways , whatever , BTS would turned into a monster in a matter days .
The police would have to act on the complaint .
Anyway , I guess not only China . This thing is controlled in the US as well .
Especially in the Bitcoin dive , it's too risky to risk the only fiat portal we could afford in 6 months .
I still remembers the debit card fiasco . Wanting something doesn't make it true , hard work and serious product will get us out of the jam . Hell , if this had been done in the past months instead of thinking about all those unrealistic plans , we could have stable mobile wallet using in Africa by now with billions of potential BitUSD and BitCNY demands . Our guy in Africa is still waiting a stable protocol and mobile wallet , I have to calm him down and stall him to use our product . (this guy is serious , contact with richest Chinese in Africa )
Why not grab those we can afford right in front of our eyes instead wasting time chasing dreams ?
I find it ironic that you say gambling is public enemy #1 in china, yet the investment in crypto currencies that we are trying to push is one of the riskiest investments one could make. And if gambling is viewed so horribly in china, why is Macau the biggest gambling center on the planet?
Macau is a special section in China . It didn't even use the same political system .
Investment in crypto is just like investment in stock market . Gamble is gamble .
If you're gonna argue stock market is gamble , then be my guest .
Absolutely not. We need to focus on getting a stable client and marketing of bitAssets. This is completely counter-productive and will only drag things further. Don't forget the original vision. Don't get distracted by 'funny' ideas. BitShares needs to be a successful user friendly decentralized exchange first, with stable client, etc. This is just a distraction that has nothing to do with BitShares. This is why Play exists, a chain for gaming and betting.
Don't try to fix what's not broken. Set an objective and follow through. It's common sense if one tries to do many things at the same time, it will only create a mess in the end. Better focus on a single objective and have it done perfectly than having multiple ideas around and trying to do multiple things at the same time because in the end, the result will be awful. Not to mention it's a waste of time an resources BitShares cannot allow to have in order to keep up with the race.
This is just straying from the path. Just focus please. Remember the original goals. Please don't mess this up.
Quote from: Akado on February 03, 2015, 03:05:17 AM
Absolutely not. We need to focus on getting a stable client and marketing of bitAssets. This is completely counter-productive and will only drag things further. Don't forget the original vision. Don't get distracted by 'funny' ideas. BitShares needs to be a successful user friendly decentralized exchange first, with stable client, etc. This is just a distraction that has nothing to do with BitShares. This is why Play exists, a chain for gaming and betting.
Don't try to fix what's not broken. Set an objective and follow through. It's common sense if one tries to do many things at the same time, it will only create a mess in the end. Better focus on a single objective and have it done perfectly than having multiple ideas around and trying to do multiple things at the same time because in the end, the result will be awful. Not to mention it's a waste of time an resources BitShares cannot allow to have in order to keep up with the race.
This is just straying from the path. Just focus please. Remember the original goals. Please don't mess this up.
Akado Akado Akado.... *claps*.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer
There is only one truth
Quote from: cn-members on February 02, 2015, 06:51:26 PM
Quote from: crypto_prometheus on February 02, 2015, 06:16:54 PM
I thought this was an excellent idea, and I believe the risk/reward ratio is highly in our favor. Bytemaster said that by the end of the year, anyone will be able to do this with smart contracts anyways, so the concerns about potential "regulatory crackdown" for gambling are a moot point. To turn down the opportunity to create some desperately needed utility for bitAssets at this point would be foolish.
As for user adoption, think about how many people play "bingo" instant lottery tickets. Hundreds of thousands? Millions? Imagine if they found out that they could play them online, using real money, to win real money. A lightweight wallet that you could fund and then play? And completely decentralized, so people from every country in the world would be driving the jackpots higher and higher. The upside potential is huge, considering the 80 hours it would take to implement. (bytemaster's estimate).
Without a major fiat portal to support the price of BTS , do you really think BTA can be used by millions of users ?
Until the fully decentralized trading status achieved (tens of thousands of gateways around the world) , we shouldn't be gambling with the only fiat portal at hand , period .
BTA relies on BTS .
This is true. After seeing many other post from Chinese members, I am now convinced that perhaps it would not be a good idea to add anything that has to do with gambling. At least until there is a much more robust gateway system in China.
NO dices etc. on the wallet...
make the wallet more user-friendly for traders so they are motivated to TRADE and not to PLAY !!!
Take the 80+ hours and put it into a more user friendly interface with far more help documentation, and error message handling and possibly reporting to enable developers to see where the product needs help.
If we want User Generated BitAssets to take off for example.. the Windows wallet needs to actually work to create one, not just look like you can and then end up figuring out the command line to get done what you want.
I added some unregistered account in my wallet that were invalid and I cannot get them out no matter what I try. The delete button beside them are deceptive in its functionality.
There are just a lot of things that can be done in this space that WILL get people excited about bitshares and make them talk about the experience being so intuitive instead of being unfinished/unpolished.
Start making the client for non-developers and non-crypto users.. and start making it for the people.
You don't need a game to get people excited about bitshares... an improved intuitive user experience goes a long way to accomplishing that as the community raves about it.
Oh yeah... and..
(http://www.casinoscamreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/no-online-gambling.jpg)
Message heard. No gambling
good to hear gambling is not going to be on the bts wallet, has someone who had a gambling problem once ,
the last thing i need is a dice or bingo game in my bank account wallet.
if you want gambling setup another dac for it,a p2p decentralized betfair, delegates can be voted in/out on sports result feeds.
but i am not a coder, just a dreamer.
After listening to Bytemasters reasoning, I have changed my mind and agree that the wallet needs to have a fun element.
This should be optional add-on to the wallet.
There should be many add-on wallet options
Make it a website. Don't put it in the client
Quote from: MrJeans on February 03, 2015, 09:24:37 PM
After listening to Bytemasters reasoning, I have changed my mind and agree that the wallet needs to have a fun element.
This should be optional add-on to the wallet.
There should be many add-on wallet options
If you put it into the client, the delegates will be pushed out of europe, the US, the UK and china due to gambling laws.
Quote from: monsterer on February 03, 2015, 10:23:33 PM
Quote from: MrJeans on February 03, 2015, 09:24:37 PM
After listening to Bytemasters reasoning, I have changed my mind and agree that the wallet needs to have a fun element.
This should be optional add-on to the wallet.
There should be many add-on wallet options
If you put it into the client, the delegates will be pushed out of europe, the US, the UK and china due to gambling laws.
Who says that delegates are liable for anything?
Quote from: bytemaster on February 04, 2015, 09:59:44 AM
Who says that delegates are liable for anything?
If the delegates decide the outcome of the bet directly, they will be liable. Now, if you could make it true peer to peer, then there would not be a problem :)
Quote from: bytemaster on February 04, 2015, 09:59:44 AM
Quote from: monsterer on February 03, 2015, 10:23:33 PM
If you put it into the client, the delegates will be pushed out of europe, the US, the UK and china due to gambling laws.
Who says that delegates are liable for anything?
I see it the same .. delegates are just building blocks from transactions ..
the only two things they are liable for are signing blocks and publishing feeds ..
the content of the blocks is not the matter of the delegate
Quote from: xeroc ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ on February 04, 2015, 10:52:52 AM
I see it the same .. delegates are just building blocks from transactions ..
the only two things they are liable for are signing blocks and publishing feeds ..
the content of the blocks is not the matter of the delegate
If you have them generating random numbers specifically for this purpose, though, that's a different matter.
Quote from: monsterer on February 04, 2015, 11:02:54 AM
Quote from: xeroc ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ on February 04, 2015, 10:52:52 AM
I see it the same .. delegates are just building blocks from transactions ..
the only two things they are liable for are signing blocks and publishing feeds ..
the content of the blocks is not the matter of the delegate
If you have them generating random numbers specifically for this purpose, though, that's a different matter.
Hu? Since when is randomness regulated?
The interpretation of the randomness is the task of the game developer
Quote from: monsterer on February 04, 2015, 10:48:46 AM
Quote from: bytemaster on February 04, 2015, 09:59:44 AM
Who says that delegates are liable for anything?
If the delegates decide the outcome of the bet directly, they will be liable. Now, if you could make it true peer to peer, then there would not be a problem :)
No individual delegate can determine the outcome. It would take massive collusion among delegates to start to harm it.
Quote from: Ander on February 02, 2015, 06:20:15 PM
I think anything like this needs to be done by a third party, not by anyone with 'official' ties to bitshares.
Exactly. This shouldn't be an official focus.
We got this, no need to gamble. Let play play that card.
Quote from: MrJeans on February 03, 2015, 09:24:37 PM
After listening to Bytemasters reasoning, I have changed my mind and agree that the wallet needs to have a fun element.
This should be optional add-on to the wallet.
There should be many add-on wallet options
Can this be done?
I still think blockchain-based Minecraft would be a great fun addition to a wallet. Minetest is an open-source clone of Minecraft.
If you want gambling with bitAssets, why not consider providing some kind of legal umbrella - acquire a licence in the most cost effective jurisdiction and then create an API for bitshares gambling projects to use. That way you open the doors to all kinds of different projects while taking some cut of their profits to pay for the licencing and legal requirements.
Quote from: monsterer on February 11, 2015, 09:57:56 AM
If you want gambling with bitAssets, why not consider providing some kind of legal umbrella - acquire a licence in the most cost effective jurisdiction and then create an API for bitshares gambling projects to use. That way you open the doors to all kinds of different projects while taking some cut of their profits to pay for the licencing and legal requirements.
+5%
Get the wallet as User Friendly as possible, look at Circle and their super easy to use interface, We need something like that for Bitshares, the graphs inside of Bitshares look so bad compared to other graphs, buttons and speed need to be more polished, focus on creating something that is built for the average joe
Quote from: cn-members on February 02, 2015, 06:06:01 PM
If anyone wants to drive BTS out of China and lost the only major fiat portal we could ever have in at least 6 months and ruin all the hard working promotion effort with serious VC investors , please do this .
Otherwise , don't .
No gambling should be on BTS wallet , period .
I've already obtained opinion from experienced lawyers .
Actually , it is a very interesting place in China, there are many gaming are running centralization services, geme using mortgage securities in taobao.com
Quote from: cn-members on February 02, 2015, 06:59:06 PM
Quote from: sumantso on February 02, 2015, 06:48:12 PM
Seeing as that BM realises BTS is about to fail and is putting it in as a desperate step, everybody should vote yes.
spoiler alert : BTS is gonna go viral in several months due to some major promotion effort in China , unless we do something to drag their feet . A crowd funding company already got millions of USD of VC to operate their operation on BTS . That's once in a life time opportunity for BTS .
As a matter of fact , all they want is no more surprises , a stable wallet and protocol , everything will work out eventually .
This is dead but I'm interested, what's the status on this, any updates? This was February, we're in November now and I didn't hear any more news from China ever since.
Quote from: Akado on November 02, 2015, 01:09:57 AM
Quote from: cn-members on February 02, 2015, 06:59:06 PM
Quote from: sumantso on February 02, 2015, 06:48:12 PM
Seeing as that BM realises BTS is about to fail and is putting it in as a desperate step, everybody should vote yes.
spoiler alert : BTS is gonna go viral in several months due to some major promotion effort in China , unless we do something to drag their feet . A crowd funding company already got millions of USD of VC to operate their operation on BTS . That's once in a life time opportunity for BTS .
As a matter of fact , all they want is no more surprises , a stable wallet and protocol , everything will work out eventually .
This is dead but I'm interested, what's the status on this, any updates? This was February, we're in November now and I didn't hear any more news from China ever since.
You must have missed it.. but the poll results speak for themselves.. they dropped this idea fast.
Quote from: DataSecurityNode on November 02, 2015, 01:25:12 AM
Quote from: Akado on November 02, 2015, 01:09:57 AM
Quote from: cn-members on February 02, 2015, 06:59:06 PM
Quote from: sumantso on February 02, 2015, 06:48:12 PM
Seeing as that BM realises BTS is about to fail and is putting it in as a desperate step, everybody should vote yes.
spoiler alert : BTS is gonna go viral in several months due to some major promotion effort in China , unless we do something to drag their feet . A crowd funding company already got millions of USD of VC to operate their operation on BTS . That's once in a life time opportunity for BTS .
As a matter of fact , all they want is no more surprises , a stable wallet and protocol , everything will work out eventually .
This is dead but I'm interested, what's the status on this, any updates? This was February, we're in November now and I didn't hear any more news from China ever since.
You must have missed it.. but the poll results speak for themselves.. they dropped this idea fast.
Oh but from what cn mentioned it seemed like they had closed some kind of deal already, not related to gambling. I mean, a company already with millions of USD to operate on BTS and then it suddenly vanishes? Maybe I misunderstood it.