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Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: Method-X on October 27, 2014, 04:19:22 pm

Title: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: Method-X on October 27, 2014, 04:19:22 pm
Crossing the Chasm: Marketing and Selling High-Tech Products to Mainstream Customers (http://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Chasm-Marketing-High-Tech-Mainstream/dp/0060517123)

It seems we're stuck at "how to get adoption", "where do we start". If you want clarity on this matter, please read Crossing the Chasm. Written almost 20 years ago, it's still just as relevant today as it was back in 1996. It's considered the Bible for all startups looking to bring disruptive technology to the masses.

Quote
Here is the bestselling guide that created a new game plan for marketing in high-tech industries. Crossing the Chasm has become the bible for bringing cutting-edge products to progressively larger markets. This edition provides new insights into the realities of high-tech marketing, with special emphasis on the Internet. It's essential reading for anyone with a stake in the world's most exciting marketplace.
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: Rune on October 27, 2014, 08:06:59 pm
I think we are in the best possible position we could be in. The market is in a downturn, once we begin to hire all the developers of the industry we will gain everyones attention. I think the entire crypto market could go to us in less than 3 months if we are aggressive enough at hiring.
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: donkeypong on October 27, 2014, 08:11:48 pm
I think we are in the best possible position we could be in. The market is in a downturn, once we begin to hire all the developers of the industry we will gain everyones attention. I think the entire crypto market could go to us in less than 3 months if we are aggressive enough at hiring.

Don't we need to have some success first, in order to afford all those developers? I think we will and we will, but I'd put the sequence in that order. But either way, it ends up to the same lunar progression.
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: Rune on October 27, 2014, 08:21:12 pm
I think we are in the best possible position we could be in. The market is in a downturn, once we begin to hire all the developers of the industry we will gain everyones attention. I think the entire crypto market could go to us in less than 3 months if we are aggressive enough at hiring.

Don't we need to have some success first, in order to afford all those developers? I think we will and we will, but I'd put the sequence in that order. But either way, it ends up to the same lunar progression.

We've essentially got 60 million USD in venture capital. The market cap can be invested to generate a return through the delegate system. We have more than enough to pay for the employment of almost every developer, for a year (pulling these numbers out of our ass). What do you think would happen to our market cap if we have the majority of developers working for us, for just a month? Don't you think all other coins will see it a bearish signal when their developers start getting headhunted?
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: cass on October 27, 2014, 08:24:41 pm
I think we are in the best possible position we could be in. The market is in a downturn, once we begin to hire all the developers of the industry we will gain everyones attention. I think the entire crypto market could go to us in less than 3 months if we are aggressive enough at hiring.

Don't we need to have some success first, in order to afford all those developers? I think we will and we will, but I'd put the sequence in that order. But either way, it ends up to the same lunar progression.

We've essentially got 60 million USD in venture capital. The market cap can be invested to generate a return through the delegate system. We have more than enough to pay for the employment of almost every developer, for a year (pulling these numbers out of our ass). What do you think would happen to our market cap if we have the majority of developers working for us, for just a month? Don't you think all other coins will see it a bearish signal when their developers start getting headhunted?

maybe yes... but our goal shouldn't to fight against other crytpos! Just my 2 BTS
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Cros[quote autsing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: luckybit on October 27, 2014, 08:29:01 pm
Crossing the Chasm: Marketing and Selling High-Tech Products to Mainstream Customers (http://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Chasm-Marketing-High-Tech-Mainstream/dp/0060517123)

It seems we're stuck at "how to get adoption", "where do we start". If you want clarity on this matter, please read Crossing the Chasm. Written almost 20 years ago, it's still just as relevant today as it was back in 1996. It's considered the Bible for all startups looking to bring disruptive technology to the masses.

Quote
Here is the bestselling guide that created a new game plan for marketing in high-tech industries. Crossing the Chasm has become the bible for bringing cutting-edge products to progressively larger markets. This edition provides new insights into the realities of high-tech marketing, with special emphasis on the Internet. It's essential reading for anyone with a stake in the world's most exciting marketplace.

That book is fine but combine it with case studies.

Bittorrent, how did it reach critical mass? What are the viral campaigns for that?

Universities had a lot to do with it: http://www.statista.com/statistics/244216/us-universities-ranked-by-bittorrent-usage/

And you can even find statistics on the universities which used it the most. Bitshares is not a startup like Apple, it's a decentralized application like Bittorrent.

So you cannot market it like Apple. Apple could form partnerships while currently its very difficult for Bitshares to do that due to how it's structured.

I think we are in the best possible position we could be in. The market is in a downturn, once we begin to hire all the developers of the industry we will gain everyones attention. I think the entire crypto market could go to us in less than 3 months if we are aggressive enough at hiring.

I actually agree with this strategy. Bitshares should start acquiring intellectual capital.

If Bitshares can acquire 100 developers into its ecosystem then it can compete with NXT. NXT is the biggest threat because they use a popular language (Java) and they have been acquiring developer capital which allows them to innovate quickly.

Counterparty is also a threat because it's written in Python. Python is perfect for allowing developers to accomplish a lot in a short amount of time.

In my opinion we need 100 serious developers. In my opinion if we structure right it will be very easy to get them. Developers want to know that they can have stability to work on the project for at least a year so how much would it cost to pay 100 developers for 1 years?

At $100,000 a year per developer multiplied by 100 you have a cost of $10,000,000.

So for $10,000,000 you could have 100 core developers going up against NXT and Bitcoin. Right now it seems like $10,000,000 is difficult to raise but consider how easy that will be to raise when the market cap is rising.


Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: GaltReport on October 27, 2014, 08:31:52 pm
I think we are in the best possible position we could be in. The market is in a downturn, once we begin to hire all the developers of the industry we will gain everyones attention. I think the entire crypto market could go to us in less than 3 months if we are aggressive enough at hiring.

Don't we need to have some success first, in order to afford all those developers? I think we will and we will, but I'd put the sequence in that order. But either way, it ends up to the same lunar progression.

We've essentially got 60 million USD in venture capital. The market cap can be invested to generate a return through the delegate system. We have more than enough to pay for the employment of almost every developer, for a year (pulling these numbers out of our ass). What do you think would happen to our market cap if we have the majority of developers working for us, for just a month? Don't you think all other coins will see it a bearish signal when their developers start getting headhunted?

maybe yes... but our goal shouldn't to fight against other crytpos! Just my 2 BTS

Right, the goal should not be to hire developers, rather to be so successful that we NEED TO hire the developers to be even more successful.  Probably that's more or less what was meant I guess.
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: luckybit on October 27, 2014, 08:38:39 pm
I think we are in the best possible position we could be in. The market is in a downturn, once we begin to hire all the developers of the industry we will gain everyones attention. I think the entire crypto market could go to us in less than 3 months if we are aggressive enough at hiring.

Don't we need to have some success first, in order to afford all those developers? I think we will and we will, but I'd put the sequence in that order. But either way, it ends up to the same lunar progression.

We've essentially got 60 million USD in venture capital. The market cap can be invested to generate a return through the delegate system. We have more than enough to pay for the employment of almost every developer, for a year (pulling these numbers out of our ass). What do you think would happen to our market cap if we have the majority of developers working for us, for just a month? Don't you think all other coins will see it a bearish signal when their developers start getting headhunted?

maybe yes... but our goal shouldn't to fight against other crytpos! Just my 2 BTS

Right, the goal should not be to hire developers, rather to be so successful that we NEED TO hire the developers to be even more successful.  Probably that's more or less what was meant I guess.

It's actually not hard to fund developers. People in the community will donate millions of dollars to support development each year. In addition to these donations you'd also get money from inflation during times when the market cap is increasing.

I think the main focus of spending should go to paying developers. I think marketing matters but it seems to matter most when newcomers are entering the ecosystem or when people are dealing with some sort of economic crisis.

I think partnerships may end up being more important than marketing in the short term.
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: sschechter on October 27, 2014, 08:44:14 pm
I think we are in the best possible position we could be in. The market is in a downturn, once we begin to hire all the developers of the industry we will gain everyones attention. I think the entire crypto market could go to us in less than 3 months if we are aggressive enough at hiring.

Don't we need to have some success first, in order to afford all those developers? I think we will and we will, but I'd put the sequence in that order. But either way, it ends up to the same lunar progression.

We've essentially got 60 million USD in venture capital. The market cap can be invested to generate a return through the delegate system. We have more than enough to pay for the employment of almost every developer, for a year (pulling these numbers out of our ass). What do you think would happen to our market cap if we have the majority of developers working for us, for just a month? Don't you think all other coins will see it a bearish signal when their developers start getting headhunted?

1. I3 wants developers on site, and for valid reasons.  It makes the project more cohesive and easier to manage. However, the demand for developers looking to move to Blacksburg, VA is, unsurprisingly, very low. Either I3 needs to move their office, or they'll need to effectively manage remote employees.

2. A good developer will cost a 6 figure salary.  If you're a believer, why take a haircut developing for BitShares when you can get paid more elsewhere and purchase shares on the open market?

Is this a cost that shareholders are willing to pay?
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: sschechter on October 27, 2014, 08:52:58 pm

It's actually not hard to fund developers. People in the community will donate millions of dollars to support development each year.


uhhhhhhhhhhhh..........they will?? Who??
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Cros[quote autsing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: sschechter on October 27, 2014, 09:08:13 pm

In my opinion we need 100 serious developers. In my opinion if we structure right it will be very easy to get them. Developers want to know that they can have stability to work on the project for at least a year so how much would it cost to pay 100 developers for 1 years?

At $100,000 a year per developer multiplied by 100 you have a cost of $10,000,000.

So for $10,000,000 you could have 100 core developers going up against NXT and Bitcoin. Right now it seems like $10,000,000 is difficult to raise but consider how easy that will be to raise when the market cap is rising.

I like where you're going with this, but 100 chefs won't bake you a faster cake.  Neither can 100 chefs run a restaurant by themselves. Someone needs to take the orders and clean the tables.  When I see Toast doing a build at midnight, what I also see is a chef busing his own table.  Actually, what I think you really got right is the 100k a year figure.

Personally, what I really think this project needs, is a commitment to AGILE methodology - not just an ad hoc, ragtag collection of hackers and coders.
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: Rune on October 27, 2014, 09:11:52 pm
Quote
1. I3 wants developers on site, and for valid reasons.  It makes the project more cohesive and easier to manage. However, the demand for developers looking to move to Blacksburg, VA is, unsurprisingly, very low. Either I3 needs to move their office, or they'll need to effectively manage remote employees.

This is a joke, right?

Please tell me this is a joke.
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: sschechter on October 27, 2014, 09:23:48 pm
Quote
1. I3 wants developers on site, and for valid reasons.  It makes the project more cohesive and easier to manage. However, the demand for developers looking to move to Blacksburg, VA is, unsurprisingly, very low. Either I3 needs to move their office, or they'll need to effectively manage remote employees.

This is a joke, right?

Please tell me this is a joke.

I3 will hire someone anywhere in the world for one off / freelance projects, but as far as I'm aware, the core toolkit developers they've been bringing to VA. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong or this has changed.
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: Ander on October 27, 2014, 09:29:03 pm
Quote
1. I3 wants developers on site, and for valid reasons.  It makes the project more cohesive and easier to manage. However, the demand for developers looking to move to Blacksburg, VA is, unsurprisingly, very low. Either I3 needs to move their office, or they'll need to effectively manage remote employees.

This is a joke, right?

Please tell me this is a joke.

I3 will hire someone anywhere in the world for one off / freelance projects, but as far as I'm aware, the core toolkit developers they've been bringing to VA. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong or this has changed.

Once we get a stable release build, plus the marketing campaign, we will be past the point where Bitshares needs to be developed by a core team in one location, imo.  At that point, the ability to hire developers as paid delegates for particular 'freelance' tasks will be incredibly useful.  (Also, hopefully we will have an order of magnitude higher market cap at that point, allowing bitshares to hire many devs to fill out its functionality without a high % of dilution).
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: Rune on October 27, 2014, 09:31:49 pm
Quote
1. I3 wants developers on site, and for valid reasons.  It makes the project more cohesive and easier to manage. However, the demand for developers looking to move to Blacksburg, VA is, unsurprisingly, very low. Either I3 needs to move their office, or they'll need to effectively manage remote employees.

This is a joke, right?

Please tell me this is a joke.

I3 will hire someone anywhere in the world for one off / freelance projects, but as far as I'm aware, the core toolkit developers they've been bringing to VA. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong or this has changed.

Ah, phew, okay I thought you were gonna link me to some "Official policy on the centralization of development". I3 is no more, at least in the way you know it. The remaining funds they have to continue development are finite. After that they become like everyone else and have to ask the blockchain for funding. In the meantime, the blockchain can hire anyone it wishes, and I'm pretty sure these people will have completely free access to the project.

The best way to describe a centralized attempt to restrict development access would be like Isildur choosing not to throw the one ring into mt. Doom.
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: speedy on October 27, 2014, 09:36:57 pm
No offense but the title of this thread sounds preachy, and BM is busy coding without having to read books. He doesnt do the marketing anyway.
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Cros[quote autsing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: Rune on October 27, 2014, 09:41:56 pm

In my opinion we need 100 serious developers. In my opinion if we structure right it will be very easy to get them. Developers want to know that they can have stability to work on the project for at least a year so how much would it cost to pay 100 developers for 1 years?

At $100,000 a year per developer multiplied by 100 you have a cost of $10,000,000.

So for $10,000,000 you could have 100 core developers going up against NXT and Bitcoin. Right now it seems like $10,000,000 is difficult to raise but consider how easy that will be to raise when the market cap is rising.

I like where you're going with this, but 100 chefs won't bake you a faster cake.  Neither can 100 chefs run a restaurant by themselves. Someone needs to take the orders and clean the tables.  When I see Toast doing a build at midnight, what I also see is a chef busing his own table.  Actually, what I think you really got right is the 100k a year figure.

Personally, what I really think this project needs, is a commitment to AGILE methodology - not just an ad hoc, ragtag collection of hackers and coders.

Effecient organization can come later, right now we need to focus on acquiring the raw talent and acquiring the crypto-wide market cap. If we get the majority of developers onboard we will essentially "51% attack" the entire industry and can absorb the market cap much faster than you'd expect, because investors will realize nothing else can keep up with the pace of our development - even if it has to take 1 or 2 years to get things fully organized and get the pace up and running at full efficiency. We all need this consolidation to have the industry regroup and fight back against the creeping regulation, and the centralization of institutions such as Coinbase, Circle and the mega-exchanges. It will be like a new chapter in the history of the blockchain, and think I the smartest people in the community will understand and agree with the need for this, and quickly jump over.
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Cros[quote autsing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: donkeypong on October 27, 2014, 09:43:42 pm

In my opinion we need 100 serious developers. In my opinion if we structure right it will be very easy to get them. Developers want to know that they can have stability to work on the project for at least a year so how much would it cost to pay 100 developers for 1 years?

At $100,000 a year per developer multiplied by 100 you have a cost of $10,000,000.

So for $10,000,000 you could have 100 core developers going up against NXT and Bitcoin. Right now it seems like $10,000,000 is difficult to raise but consider how easy that will be to raise when the market cap is rising.

I like where you're going with this, but 100 chefs won't bake you a faster cake.  Neither can 100 chefs run a restaurant by themselves. Someone needs to take the orders and clean the tables.  When I see Toast doing a build at midnight, what I also see is a chef busing his own table.  Actually, what I think you really got right is the 100k a year figure.

Personally, what I really think this project needs, is a commitment to AGILE methodology - not just an ad hoc, ragtag collection of hackers and coders.

Effecient organization can come later, right now we need to focus on acquiring the raw talent and acquiring the crypto-wide market cap. If we get the majority of developers onboard we will essentially "51% attack" the entire industry and can absorb the market cap much faster than you'd expect, because investors will realize nothing else can keep up with the pace of our development - even if it has to take 1 or 2 years to get things fully organized and get the pace up and running at full efficiency. We all need this consolidation to have the industry regroup and fight back against the creeping regulation, and the centralization of institutions such as Coinbase, Circle and the mega-exchanges. It will be like a new chapter in the history of the blockchain, and think I the smartest people in the community will understand and agree with the need for this, and quickly jump over.

You don't think all these VC-funded startups in the crypto arena have the means to attract top talent?
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Cros[quote autsing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: Rune on October 27, 2014, 09:47:39 pm

In my opinion we need 100 serious developers. In my opinion if we structure right it will be very easy to get them. Developers want to know that they can have stability to work on the project for at least a year so how much would it cost to pay 100 developers for 1 years?

At $100,000 a year per developer multiplied by 100 you have a cost of $10,000,000.

So for $10,000,000 you could have 100 core developers going up against NXT and Bitcoin. Right now it seems like $10,000,000 is difficult to raise but consider how easy that will be to raise when the market cap is rising.

I like where you're going with this, but 100 chefs won't bake you a faster cake.  Neither can 100 chefs run a restaurant by themselves. Someone needs to take the orders and clean the tables.  When I see Toast doing a build at midnight, what I also see is a chef busing his own table.  Actually, what I think you really got right is the 100k a year figure.

Personally, what I really think this project needs, is a commitment to AGILE methodology - not just an ad hoc, ragtag collection of hackers and coders.

Effecient organization can come later, right now we need to focus on acquiring the raw talent and acquiring the crypto-wide market cap. If we get the majority of developers onboard we will essentially "51% attack" the entire industry and can absorb the market cap much faster than you'd expect, because investors will realize nothing else can keep up with the pace of our development - even if it has to take 1 or 2 years to get things fully organized and get the pace up and running at full efficiency. We all need this consolidation to have the industry regroup and fight back against the creeping regulation, and the centralization of institutions such as Coinbase, Circle and the mega-exchanges. It will be like a new chapter in the history of the blockchain, and think I the smartest people in the community will understand and agree with the need for this, and quickly jump over.

You don't think all these VC-funded startups in the crypto arena have the means to attract top talent?

We will always be able to offer a higher pay. A developer will always be better applied working directly to improve the blockchain itself and fixing all inefficiency, rather than working to monetise one or more of its inefficiencies.
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: emski on October 27, 2014, 09:54:39 pm
No offense but the title of this thread sounds preachy, and BM is busy coding without having to read books. He doesnt do the marketing anyway.
Right! Lock him up somewhere so he can code!
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: speedy on October 27, 2014, 09:57:23 pm
No offense but the title of this thread sounds preachy, and BM is busy coding without having to read books. He doesnt do the marketing anyway.
Right! Lock him up somewhere so he can code!

I didnt mean that  :P
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: Method-X on October 27, 2014, 09:59:38 pm
No offense but the title of this thread sounds preachy, and BM is busy coding without having to read books. He doesnt do the marketing anyway.

Bytemaster has other duties besides coding; he is effectively the CEO of the Bitshares DAC. It seems to me this book is exactly where his "heads at" right now. My intention wasn't to be preachy.
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: kisa on October 27, 2014, 10:12:59 pm
No offense but the title of this thread sounds preachy, and BM is busy coding without having to read books. He doesnt do the marketing anyway.

Bytemaster has other duties besides coding; he is effectively the CEO of the Bitshares DAC. It seems to me this book is exactly where his "heads at" right now. My intention wasn't to be preachy.

Reading trhrough Amazon reviews looks like a must read for anyone who is to be taken seriously while discussing marketing on this forum!

...BTC is struggling with mass adoption because the vast majority of humans can only cope with tech evolution not revolution...
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: Method-X on October 27, 2014, 10:24:15 pm
No offense but the title of this thread sounds preachy, and BM is busy coding without having to read books. He doesnt do the marketing anyway.

Bytemaster has other duties besides coding; he is effectively the CEO of the Bitshares DAC. It seems to me this book is exactly where his "heads at" right now. My intention wasn't to be preachy.

Reading trhrough Amazon reviews looks like a must read for anyone who is to be taken seriously while discussing marketing on this forum!

...BTC is struggling with mass adoption because the vast majority of humans can only cope with tech evolution to revolution...

It really is one of the best marketing books out there, when it comes to big picture strategy any disruptive startup should employ.

For anyone who is interested in a brief overview, check out this article (http://www.forbes.com/sites/danschawbel/2013/12/17/geoffrey-moore-why-crossing-the-chasm-is-still-relevant/).

Download the pdf here (https://kickass.to/crossing-the-chasm-marketing-and-selling-high-tech-products-to-mainstream-customers-qwerty80-t6882350.html).
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: kisa on October 27, 2014, 10:34:04 pm
Thx vm for the links!
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: GaltReport on October 27, 2014, 10:41:48 pm
No offense but the title of this thread sounds preachy, and BM is busy coding without having to read books. He doesnt do the marketing anyway.

Bytemaster has other duties besides coding; he is effectively the CEO of the Bitshares DAC. It seems to me this book is exactly where his "heads at" right now. My intention wasn't to be preachy.

Reading trhrough Amazon reviews looks like a must read for anyone who is to be taken seriously while discussing marketing on this forum!

...BTC is struggling with mass adoption because the vast majority of humans can only cope with tech evolution to revolution...

It really is one of the best marketing books out there, when it comes to big picture strategy any disruptive startup should employ.

For anyone who is interested in a brief overview, check out this article (http://www.forbes.com/sites/danschawbel/2013/12/17/geoffrey-moore-why-crossing-the-chasm-is-still-relevant/).

Download the pdf here (https://kickass.to/crossing-the-chasm-marketing-and-selling-high-tech-products-to-mainstream-customers-qwerty80-t6882350.html).

Hmm, yummy pdf !!  Thank You.
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Cros[quote autsing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: luckybit on October 27, 2014, 10:58:26 pm

In my opinion we need 100 serious developers. In my opinion if we structure right it will be very easy to get them. Developers want to know that they can have stability to work on the project for at least a year so how much would it cost to pay 100 developers for 1 years?

At $100,000 a year per developer multiplied by 100 you have a cost of $10,000,000.

So for $10,000,000 you could have 100 core developers going up against NXT and Bitcoin. Right now it seems like $10,000,000 is difficult to raise but consider how easy that will be to raise when the market cap is rising.

I like where you're going with this, but 100 chefs won't bake you a faster cake.  Neither can 100 chefs run a restaurant by themselves. Someone needs to take the orders and clean the tables.  When I see Toast doing a build at midnight, what I also see is a chef busing his own table.  Actually, what I think you really got right is the 100k a year figure.

Personally, what I really think this project needs, is a commitment to AGILE methodology - not just an ad hoc, ragtag collection of hackers and coders.

It's not one restaurant but a franchise. We need 100 chefs so we can have half a dozen DACs get the right support. Video game companies routinely hire 100 developers and what they build isn't as complex.

Assuming we want 10-12 DACs then I estimate at 10 developers each it would cost 100 developers. Am I that far off?

In my opinion we need 100 serious developers. In my opinion if we structure right it will be very easy to get them. Developers want to know that they can have stability to work on the project for at least a year so how much would it cost to pay 100 developers for 1 years?

At $100,000 a year per developer multiplied by 100 you have a cost of $10,000,000.

So for $10,000,000 you could have 100 core developers going up against NXT and Bitcoin. Right now it seems like $10,000,000 is difficult to raise but consider how easy that will be to raise when the market cap is rising.

I like where you're going with this, but 100 chefs won't bake you a faster cake.  Neither can 100 chefs run a restaurant by themselves. Someone needs to take the orders and clean the tables.  When I see Toast doing a build at midnight, what I also see is a chef busing his own table.  Actually, what I think you really got right is the 100k a year figure.

Personally, what I really think this project needs, is a commitment to AGILE methodology - not just an ad hoc, ragtag collection of hackers and coders.

Effecient organization can come later, right now we need to focus on acquiring the raw talent and acquiring the crypto-wide market cap. If we get the majority of developers onboard we will essentially "51% attack" the entire industry and can absorb the market cap much faster than you'd expect, because investors will realize nothing else can keep up with the pace of our development - even if it has to take 1 or 2 years to get things fully organized and get the pace up and running at full efficiency. We all need this consolidation to have the industry regroup and fight back against the creeping regulation, and the centralization of institutions such as Coinbase, Circle and the mega-exchanges. It will be like a new chapter in the history of the blockchain, and think I the smartest people in the community will understand and agree with the need for this, and quickly jump over.

You don't think all these VC-funded startups in the crypto arena have the means to attract top talent?

They do, and that is why we need our own structures. It's going to be the VCs vs the cooperatives.

We should side with the cooperatives and put the community first. VCs make the already rich a lot richer but a lot of VC people will be people who didn't have any involvement in building the community, the technology, the culture, but who just come after it's built and buy everything up.

Why not have ownership of our own community? If people want to join then they join us or partner but if VCs own all the legal entities in the industry then what does that say?

VCs are going to let us cook them lunch and dinner. They'll show up at the last minute to eat it all and but the community wont benefit from capital infusion from VCs unless it's set up to benefit from it. VCs probably are going to buy out the delegates, watch and see.


Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: Empirical1.1 on October 27, 2014, 11:05:25 pm
Quote
The Early Market, where buyers are early adopters seeking to get ahead of the herd by taking a chance with a promising but unproven technology.

Crossing the Chasm, where buyers are “pragmatists in pain,” stuck with a problem business process and willing to take a chance on something new, provided it is directly focused on solving their specific use case.

Inside the Tornado, where buyers are pragmatists going with the herd, the technology now being proven, its value substantially superior to the status quo, and the forcing function being fear of getting left behind.

On Main Street, where buyers are maintaining their investments in a now broadly adopted technology, looking for better value and lower total cost of ownership.   

Thanks for article link

Quote
It is critical when crossing the chasm that you focus exclusively on achieving a dominant position in one or two narrowly bounded market segments. If you do not commit fully to this goal, the odds are overwhelmingly against you ever arriving in the mainstream market. 

I think many here instinctively perceive that we're not at the main street stage yet and that targeting niches is key. It looks like the marketing message at least may be moving a bit in that direction now which is good.
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: luckybit on October 27, 2014, 11:12:40 pm
No offense but the title of this thread sounds preachy, and BM is busy coding without having to read books. He doesnt do the marketing anyway.

Bytemaster has other duties besides coding; he is effectively the CEO of the Bitshares DAC. It seems to me this book is exactly where his "heads at" right now. My intention wasn't to be preachy.

That book doesn't apply well because unless products in that book are like Bittorrent, Napster, and other digital only products, it means you cannot really use the traditional techniques.

I'm not saying the book shouldn't be read but more that just reading a book isn't enough. Read case studies, see how other disruptive peer to peer technologies spread. Bitshares isn't a traditional business and so you have to understand that because it's disruptive it will have to be much more viral.

Napster was viral because music sharing was already a cultural norm. Napster was able to ride on the cultural norm of sharing to make it go viral. Bitshares hasn't figured out what it's cultural norms at yet and seems to be trying to market itself as if it is Apple when it's nothing like Apple in terms of how it's structured.

So the marketing of Apple doesn't make sense when Apple is clearly part of the establishment at this point while Bitshares is disruptive. iTunes came alone because the establishment was terrified of Napster and so it chose iTunes because iTunes was more centralized. This means Apple promoted centralization over innovation to get maximum profit.

In our case we are decentralized and while we might want maximum profit like Apple we cannot do it the same way. We don't have the ability to make the sort of partnerships to make it possible yet and even if we did I doubt the majority of shareholders would want to do it. I think Bitshares at least early on is going to be seen more like MegaUpload, Napster, Bittorrent, or something similar, so the ideal way to market it is to take it viral.

If Bitshares doesn't go viral it's not going to even get the attention of the establishment.
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: Method-X on October 27, 2014, 11:17:18 pm
No offense but the title of this thread sounds preachy, and BM is busy coding without having to read books. He doesnt do the marketing anyway.

Bytemaster has other duties besides coding; he is effectively the CEO of the Bitshares DAC. It seems to me this book is exactly where his "heads at" right now. My intention wasn't to be preachy.

That book doesn't apply well because unless products in that book are like Bittorrent, Napster, and other digital only products, it means you cannot really use the traditional techniques.

I'm not saying the book shouldn't be read but more that just reading a book isn't enough. Read case studies, see how other disruptive peer to peer technologies spread. Bitshares isn't a traditional business and so you have to understand that because it's disruptive it will have to be much more viral.

Napster was viral because music sharing was already a cultural norm. Napster was able to ride on the cultural norm of sharing to make it go viral. Bitshares hasn't figured out what it's cultural norms at yet and seems to be trying to market itself as if it is Apple when it's nothing like Apple in terms of how it's structured.

So the marketing of Apple doesn't make sense when Apple is clearly part of the establishment at this point while Bitshares is disruptive. iTunes came alone because the establishment was terrified of Napster and so it chose iTunes because iTunes was more centralized. This means Apple promoted centralization over innovation to get maximum profit.

In our case we are decentralized and while we might want maximum profit like Apple we cannot do it the same way. We don't have the ability to make the sort of partnerships to make it possible yet and even if we did I doubt the majority of shareholders would want to do it. I think Bitshares at least early on is going to be seen more like MegaUpload, Napster, Bittorrent, or something similar, so the ideal way to market it is to take it viral.

If Bitshares doesn't go viral it's not going to even get the attention of the establishment.

I agree with everything in your post (besides Crossing The Chasm not being relevant). You should read the book.

 - Virality is key.
 - Engineering publicity is key.
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: luckybit on October 27, 2014, 11:20:40 pm
To anyone interested in making Bitshares as much of a success as BitTorrent and not a marketing failure like Bitcoin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTorrent
Quote
Quote
Programmer Bram Cohen, a former University at Buffalo graduate student in Computer Science,[4] designed the protocol in April 2001 and released the first available version on 2 July 2001,[5] and the final version in 2008.[6] BitTorrent clients are available for a variety of computing platforms and operating systems including an official client released by Bittorrent, Inc.
As of January 2012, BitTorrent is utilized by 150 million active users (according to BitTorrent, Inc.). Based on this figure, the total number of monthly BitTorrent users can be estimated at more than a quarter of a billion.[7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bram_Cohen

Study BitTorrent. Tell the marketing team what the BitTorrent team did to market the technology. Why was it adopted so quickly? Why did it go so viral? Was it because people could get something for free? Was it something else?

Study programmer Bram Cohen. Who is he? How did he do the impossible? He did what Bytemaster is attempting to do, what Satoshi Nakamoto attempted to do with Bitcoin.
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: Method-X on October 27, 2014, 11:47:31 pm
To anyone interested in making Bitshares as much of a success as BitTorrent and not a marketing failure like Bitcoin:

I don't think BitTorrent/Napster are perfect case studies. These applications both offered instant gratification; something very important for viral growth within the mainstream. Until banks start seizing customer funds, Bitshares simply doesn't have the necessity for mainstream virality.

I would strongly recommend establishing Bitshares in two or three niche markets. As Empirical1.1 said elsewhere: anywhere real USD demand is high but supply is low, that's where we should target. My experience tells me that having a strong foothold in niche markets will naturally spill over into broader markets once the need arises (financial crisis, bailins, bailouts, etc).

So Lucky, what you're saying is true, but only as it applies to niche markets where BitUSD utility is very high. I don't see Bitshares going mainstream viral until two conditions are met:

   1. Strong BitUSD presence in key niche markets.
   2. Financial crisis occurs, causing BitUSD utility to become apparent.
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: luckybit on October 28, 2014, 12:35:22 am
To anyone interested in making Bitshares as much of a success as BitTorrent and not a marketing failure like Bitcoin:

I don't think BitTorrent/Napster are perfect case studies. These applications both offered instant gratification; something very important for viral growth within the mainstream. Until banks start seizing customer funds, Bitshares simply doesn't have the necessity for mainstream virality.

I would strongly recommend establishing Bitshares in two or three niche markets. As Empirical1.1 said elsewhere: anywhere real USD demand is high but supply is low, that's where we should target. My experience tells me that having a strong foothold in niche markets will naturally spill over into broader markets once the need arises (financial crisis, bailins, bailouts, etc).

So Lucky, what you're saying is true, but only as it applies to niche markets where BitUSD utility is very high. I don't see Bitshares going mainstream viral until two conditions are met:

   1. Strong BitUSD presence in key niche markets.
   2. Financial crisis occurs, causing BitUSD utility to become apparent.


I agree with only some of this.
1) BitAssets will be important but we don't know which one. So it might not be BitUSD which is important.
2) Users have to see more pluses than minuses using the platform.

See what Bram Cohen had to said: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-24911187

He didn't have any clue how BitTorrent woudl be used. He thought it would be used for music sharing but he designed it to be future proof.
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: matador123 on October 28, 2014, 02:16:27 am
To anyone interested in making Bitshares as much of a success as BitTorrent and not a marketing failure like Bitcoin:

I don't think BitTorrent/Napster are perfect case studies. These applications both offered instant gratification; something very important for viral growth within the mainstream. Until banks start seizing customer funds, Bitshares simply doesn't have the necessity for mainstream virality.

I would strongly recommend establishing Bitshares in two or three niche markets. As Empirical1.1 said elsewhere: anywhere real USD demand is high but supply is low, that's where we should target. My experience tells me that having a strong foothold in niche markets will naturally spill over into broader markets once the need arises (financial crisis, bailins, bailouts, etc).

So Lucky, what you're saying is true, but only as it applies to niche markets where BitUSD utility is very high. I don't see Bitshares going mainstream viral until two conditions are met:

   1. Strong BitUSD presence in key niche markets.
   2. Financial crisis occurs, causing BitUSD utility to become apparent.

Definitely agree with what you and Empirical1.1 are saying. Argentina (and possibly Venezuela, though I don't know as much about that latter) is a perfect place that fits these requirements. I was down there from February-July, and the buzz around bitcoin is huge. The problem is, people there want to buy USD to have a safe store of value. Because of bitcoin's volatility, it really isn't a better option than just saving in Argentine pesos, and it's definitely not a better option than buying dollars. So, there's definitely interest in cryptocurrencies as a way to solve some of the economic issues in the country, but Bitcoin doesn't solve these...that's where bitUSD comes in.
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: luckybit on October 28, 2014, 03:33:12 am
I don't think BitTorrent/Napster are perfect case studies. These applications both offered instant gratification; something very important for viral growth within the mainstream. Until banks start seizing customer funds, Bitshares simply doesn't have the necessity for mainstream virality.
What makes you think Bitshares technology cannot offer instant gratification? Viral BitGold is easily possible.

I would strongly recommend establishing Bitshares in two or three niche markets. As Empirical1.1 said elsewhere: anywhere real USD demand is high but supply is low, that's where we should target. My experience tells me that having a strong foothold in niche markets will naturally spill over into broader markets once the need arises (financial crisis, bailins, bailouts, etc).

Remittance might be a good niche market but I don't think focusing on that will be good enough. I think we should focus on instant gratification. If instant gratification is what takes something viral then why not make DACs which provide instant gratification or offer BitAssets which provide it?
So Lucky, what you're saying is true, but only as it applies to niche markets where BitUSD utility is very high. I don't see Bitshares going mainstream viral until two conditions are met:

   1. Strong BitUSD presence in key niche markets.
   2. Financial crisis occurs, causing BitUSD utility to become apparent.

I don't think BitUSD is the most important BitAsset. You're not thinking outside of the box here and are being very orthodox. BitTorrent became viral, it caught on. How can we market Bitshares so it too can become viral?

It doesn't have to be BitUSD which goes viral. Any BitAsset or any use case which goes viral would make Bitshares a success. BitUSD might never amount to anything and it could be something we never expect. It could be a user asset or some weird idea we never even considered.
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: emailtooaj on October 28, 2014, 03:50:44 am
To anyone interested in making Bitshares as much of a success as BitTorrent and not a marketing failure like Bitcoin:

I don't think BitTorrent/Napster are perfect case studies. These applications both offered instant gratification; something very important for viral growth within the mainstream. Until banks start seizing customer funds, Bitshares simply doesn't have the necessity for mainstream virality.

I would strongly recommend establishing Bitshares in two or three niche markets. As Empirical1.1 said elsewhere: anywhere real USD demand is high but supply is low, that's where we should target. My experience tells me that having a strong foothold in niche markets will naturally spill over into broader markets once the need arises (financial crisis, bailins, bailouts, etc).

So Lucky, what you're saying is true, but only as it applies to niche markets where BitUSD utility is very high. I don't see Bitshares going mainstream viral until two conditions are met:

   1. Strong BitUSD presence in key niche markets.
   2. Financial crisis occurs, causing BitUSD utility to become apparent.

Definitely agree with what you and Empirical1.1 are saying. Argentina (and possibly Venezuela, though I don't know as much about that latter) is a perfect place that fits these requirements. I was down there from February-July, and the buzz around bitcoin is huge. The problem is, people there want to buy USD to have a safe store of value. Because of bitcoin's volatility, it really isn't a better option than just saving in Argentine pesos, and it's definitely not a better option than buying dollars. So, there's definitely interest in cryptocurrencies as a way to solve some of the economic issues in the country, but Bitcoin doesn't solve these...that's where bitUSD comes in.

 +5% +5%
On top of that, take a look into the overall Hispanic population (from Mexico to Argentina) and their financial plight to success.  They've come to the US (legally and illegally) to work for USD and their only "safe" way to send it back to their country is through money wire services (Western Union, Money Gram, etc etc) bypassing their corrupt and unstable banking systems. I've talked to many of them first hand and they'll all tell you the same story. It's mind blowing how much USD gets transferred out of this county!!!
This should be a no-brainer in trying to educate this population about Bitshares and it's economical benefits.
Once we get the USD>BitUSD on ramp established and have a Bitshare Lite Client phone app running... IMO the Hispanic community should be the forefront of any
major Marketing push!!
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: luckybit on October 28, 2014, 09:23:00 am
To anyone interested in making Bitshares as much of a success as BitTorrent and not a marketing failure like Bitcoin:

I don't think BitTorrent/Napster are perfect case studies. These applications both offered instant gratification; something very important for viral growth within the mainstream. Until banks start seizing customer funds, Bitshares simply doesn't have the necessity for mainstream virality.

I would strongly recommend establishing Bitshares in two or three niche markets. As Empirical1.1 said elsewhere: anywhere real USD demand is high but supply is low, that's where we should target. My experience tells me that having a strong foothold in niche markets will naturally spill over into broader markets once the need arises (financial crisis, bailins, bailouts, etc).

So Lucky, what you're saying is true, but only as it applies to niche markets where BitUSD utility is very high. I don't see Bitshares going mainstream viral until two conditions are met:

   1. Strong BitUSD presence in key niche markets.
   2. Financial crisis occurs, causing BitUSD utility to become apparent.

Definitely agree with what you and Empirical1.1 are saying. Argentina (and possibly Venezuela, though I don't know as much about that latter) is a perfect place that fits these requirements. I was down there from February-July, and the buzz around bitcoin is huge. The problem is, people there want to buy USD to have a safe store of value. Because of bitcoin's volatility, it really isn't a better option than just saving in Argentine pesos, and it's definitely not a better option than buying dollars. So, there's definitely interest in cryptocurrencies as a way to solve some of the economic issues in the country, but Bitcoin doesn't solve these...that's where bitUSD comes in.

 +5% +5%
On top of that, take a look into the overall Hispanic population (from Mexico to Argentina) and their financial plight to success.  They've come to the US (legally and illegally) to work for USD and their only "safe" way to send it back to their country is through money wire services (Western Union, Money Gram, etc etc) bypassing their corrupt and unstable banking systems. I've talked to many of them first hand and they'll all tell you the same story. It's mind blowing how much USD gets transferred out of this county!!!
This should be a no-brainer in trying to educate this population about Bitshares and it's economical benefits.
Once we get the USD>BitUSD on ramp established and have a Bitshare Lite Client phone app running... IMO the Hispanic community should be the forefront of any
major Marketing push!!

Does BitUSD have any advantage over BitGLD?
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: matador123 on October 28, 2014, 03:49:52 pm
To anyone interested in making Bitshares as much of a success as BitTorrent and not a marketing failure like Bitcoin:

I don't think BitTorrent/Napster are perfect case studies. These applications both offered instant gratification; something very important for viral growth within the mainstream. Until banks start seizing customer funds, Bitshares simply doesn't have the necessity for mainstream virality.

I would strongly recommend establishing Bitshares in two or three niche markets. As Empirical1.1 said elsewhere: anywhere real USD demand is high but supply is low, that's where we should target. My experience tells me that having a strong foothold in niche markets will naturally spill over into broader markets once the need arises (financial crisis, bailins, bailouts, etc).

So Lucky, what you're saying is true, but only as it applies to niche markets where BitUSD utility is very high. I don't see Bitshares going mainstream viral until two conditions are met:

   1. Strong BitUSD presence in key niche markets.
   2. Financial crisis occurs, causing BitUSD utility to become apparent.

Definitely agree with what you and Empirical1.1 are saying. Argentina (and possibly Venezuela, though I don't know as much about that latter) is a perfect place that fits these requirements. I was down there from February-July, and the buzz around bitcoin is huge. The problem is, people there want to buy USD to have a safe store of value. Because of bitcoin's volatility, it really isn't a better option than just saving in Argentine pesos, and it's definitely not a better option than buying dollars. So, there's definitely interest in cryptocurrencies as a way to solve some of the economic issues in the country, but Bitcoin doesn't solve these...that's where bitUSD comes in.

 +5% +5%
On top of that, take a look into the overall Hispanic population (from Mexico to Argentina) and their financial plight to success.  They've come to the US (legally and illegally) to work for USD and their only "safe" way to send it back to their country is through money wire services (Western Union, Money Gram, etc etc) bypassing their corrupt and unstable banking systems. I've talked to many of them first hand and they'll all tell you the same story. It's mind blowing how much USD gets transferred out of this county!!!
This should be a no-brainer in trying to educate this population about Bitshares and it's economical benefits.
Once we get the USD>BitUSD on ramp established and have a Bitshare Lite Client phone app running... IMO the Hispanic community should be the forefront of any
major Marketing push!!

Does BitUSD have any advantage over BitGLD?

From my experience in Argentina, the US dollar is so ubiquitous that it might have an advantage over BitGLD simply because people are used to thinking in dollar terms. The black market exchange rate for the US dollar is published in the major newspapers every morning. I think it would be a lot more difficult to get people thinking in gold terms for pricing than it would be for bitUSD. That's just my opinion. Of course, they would have access to both bitGLD and bitUSD if they wanted to, but in terms of a marketing push, I think bitUSD is the best focus.
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: Empirical1.1 on October 28, 2014, 04:18:06 pm
To anyone interested in making Bitshares as much of a success as BitTorrent and not a marketing failure like Bitcoin:

I don't think BitTorrent/Napster are perfect case studies. These applications both offered instant gratification; something very important for viral growth within the mainstream. Until banks start seizing customer funds, Bitshares simply doesn't have the necessity for mainstream virality.

I would strongly recommend establishing Bitshares in two or three niche markets. As Empirical1.1 said elsewhere: anywhere real USD demand is high but supply is low, that's where we should target. My experience tells me that having a strong foothold in niche markets will naturally spill over into broader markets once the need arises (financial crisis, bailins, bailouts, etc).

So Lucky, what you're saying is true, but only as it applies to niche markets where BitUSD utility is very high. I don't see Bitshares going mainstream viral until two conditions are met:

   1. Strong BitUSD presence in key niche markets.
   2. Financial crisis occurs, causing BitUSD utility to become apparent.

Definitely agree with what you and Empirical1.1 are saying. Argentina (and possibly Venezuela, though I don't know as much about that latter) is a perfect place that fits these requirements. I was down there from February-July, and the buzz around bitcoin is huge. The problem is, people there want to buy USD to have a safe store of value. Because of bitcoin's volatility, it really isn't a better option than just saving in Argentine pesos, and it's definitely not a better option than buying dollars. So, there's definitely interest in cryptocurrencies as a way to solve some of the economic issues in the country, but Bitcoin doesn't solve these...that's where bitUSD comes in.

 +5% +5%
On top of that, take a look into the overall Hispanic population (from Mexico to Argentina) and their financial plight to success.  They've come to the US (legally and illegally) to work for USD and their only "safe" way to send it back to their country is through money wire services (Western Union, Money Gram, etc etc) bypassing their corrupt and unstable banking systems. I've talked to many of them first hand and they'll all tell you the same story. It's mind blowing how much USD gets transferred out of this county!!!
This should be a no-brainer in trying to educate this population about Bitshares and it's economical benefits.
Once we get the USD>BitUSD on ramp established and have a Bitshare Lite Client phone app running... IMO the Hispanic community should be the forefront of any
major Marketing push!!

Does BitUSD have any advantage over BitGLD?

From my experience in Argentina, the US dollar is so ubiquitous that it might have an advantage over BitGLD simply because people are used to thinking in dollar terms. The black market exchange rate for the US dollar is published in the major newspapers every morning. I think it would be a lot more difficult to get people thinking in gold terms for pricing than it would be for bitUSD. That's just my opinion. Of course, they would have access to both bitGLD and bitUSD if they wanted to, but in terms of a marketing push, I think bitUSD is the best focus.

Yeah it's BitUSD all the way there. They can adopt this nationwide in less than a year.

The question is how do we do it. How do we get in there?

My approach to be would be to approach the 4/5 biggest Bitcoin entrepreneurs/exchanges and pitch them BitUSD. They should get the opportunity instantly and then we go from there. It looks like this hasn't been done yet.

1. BitPagos  http://www.coindesk.com/bitpagos-brings-bitcoin-8000-convenience-stores-ripio/

2. Dr. Bitcoin Venezuala http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-08/dr-bitcoin-venezuela-wages-economic-war-against-maduros-currency-controls

3. Unisend http://www.coindesk.com/argentina-bitcoin-exchange-loses-bank-accounts/

4. Bitex.la http://www.coindesk.com/latin-america-bitcoin-exchange-bitex-la-2-million/

5. ?
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: matador123 on October 28, 2014, 04:22:32 pm
To anyone interested in making Bitshares as much of a success as BitTorrent and not a marketing failure like Bitcoin:

I don't think BitTorrent/Napster are perfect case studies. These applications both offered instant gratification; something very important for viral growth within the mainstream. Until banks start seizing customer funds, Bitshares simply doesn't have the necessity for mainstream virality.

I would strongly recommend establishing Bitshares in two or three niche markets. As Empirical1.1 said elsewhere: anywhere real USD demand is high but supply is low, that's where we should target. My experience tells me that having a strong foothold in niche markets will naturally spill over into broader markets once the need arises (financial crisis, bailins, bailouts, etc).

So Lucky, what you're saying is true, but only as it applies to niche markets where BitUSD utility is very high. I don't see Bitshares going mainstream viral until two conditions are met:

   1. Strong BitUSD presence in key niche markets.
   2. Financial crisis occurs, causing BitUSD utility to become apparent.

Definitely agree with what you and Empirical1.1 are saying. Argentina (and possibly Venezuela, though I don't know as much about that latter) is a perfect place that fits these requirements. I was down there from February-July, and the buzz around bitcoin is huge. The problem is, people there want to buy USD to have a safe store of value. Because of bitcoin's volatility, it really isn't a better option than just saving in Argentine pesos, and it's definitely not a better option than buying dollars. So, there's definitely interest in cryptocurrencies as a way to solve some of the economic issues in the country, but Bitcoin doesn't solve these...that's where bitUSD comes in.

 +5% +5%
On top of that, take a look into the overall Hispanic population (from Mexico to Argentina) and their financial plight to success.  They've come to the US (legally and illegally) to work for USD and their only "safe" way to send it back to their country is through money wire services (Western Union, Money Gram, etc etc) bypassing their corrupt and unstable banking systems. I've talked to many of them first hand and they'll all tell you the same story. It's mind blowing how much USD gets transferred out of this county!!!
This should be a no-brainer in trying to educate this population about Bitshares and it's economical benefits.
Once we get the USD>BitUSD on ramp established and have a Bitshare Lite Client phone app running... IMO the Hispanic community should be the forefront of any
major Marketing push!!

Does BitUSD have any advantage over BitGLD?

From my experience in Argentina, the US dollar is so ubiquitous that it might have an advantage over BitGLD simply because people are used to thinking in dollar terms. The black market exchange rate for the US dollar is published in the major newspapers every morning. I think it would be a lot more difficult to get people thinking in gold terms for pricing than it would be for bitUSD. That's just my opinion. Of course, they would have access to both bitGLD and bitUSD if they wanted to, but in terms of a marketing push, I think bitUSD is the best focus.

Yeah it's BitUSD all the way there. They can adopt this nationwide in less than a year.

The question is how do we do it. How do we get in there?

My approach to be would be to approach the 4/5 biggest Bitcoin entrepreneurs/exchanges and pitch them BitUSD. They should get the opportunity instantly and then we go from there. It looks like this hasn't been done yet.

1. BitPagos 
2. Dr. Bitcoin Venezuala

3. ?
4. ?
5. ?

Xapo is another company with a big presence in Argentina (it was founded by an Argentine entrepreneur). They make bitcoin wallets and bitcoin based debit cards. I don't want to speak too soon, but I have a contact within the company. I met him through a friend and got dinner with him when I was in Argentina. I'm preparing a bit post about marketing within Argentina. I'm going to try to make it comprehensive, so that we can get a bit conversation about this going on it's own thread. I should be able to have it up by tonight.
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: Empirical1.1 on October 28, 2014, 04:24:20 pm
To anyone interested in making Bitshares as much of a success as BitTorrent and not a marketing failure like Bitcoin:

I don't think BitTorrent/Napster are perfect case studies. These applications both offered instant gratification; something very important for viral growth within the mainstream. Until banks start seizing customer funds, Bitshares simply doesn't have the necessity for mainstream virality.

I would strongly recommend establishing Bitshares in two or three niche markets. As Empirical1.1 said elsewhere: anywhere real USD demand is high but supply is low, that's where we should target. My experience tells me that having a strong foothold in niche markets will naturally spill over into broader markets once the need arises (financial crisis, bailins, bailouts, etc).

So Lucky, what you're saying is true, but only as it applies to niche markets where BitUSD utility is very high. I don't see Bitshares going mainstream viral until two conditions are met:

   1. Strong BitUSD presence in key niche markets.
   2. Financial crisis occurs, causing BitUSD utility to become apparent.

Definitely agree with what you and Empirical1.1 are saying. Argentina (and possibly Venezuela, though I don't know as much about that latter) is a perfect place that fits these requirements. I was down there from February-July, and the buzz around bitcoin is huge. The problem is, people there want to buy USD to have a safe store of value. Because of bitcoin's volatility, it really isn't a better option than just saving in Argentine pesos, and it's definitely not a better option than buying dollars. So, there's definitely interest in cryptocurrencies as a way to solve some of the economic issues in the country, but Bitcoin doesn't solve these...that's where bitUSD comes in.

 +5% +5%
On top of that, take a look into the overall Hispanic population (from Mexico to Argentina) and their financial plight to success.  They've come to the US (legally and illegally) to work for USD and their only "safe" way to send it back to their country is through money wire services (Western Union, Money Gram, etc etc) bypassing their corrupt and unstable banking systems. I've talked to many of them first hand and they'll all tell you the same story. It's mind blowing how much USD gets transferred out of this county!!!
This should be a no-brainer in trying to educate this population about Bitshares and it's economical benefits.
Once we get the USD>BitUSD on ramp established and have a Bitshare Lite Client phone app running... IMO the Hispanic community should be the forefront of any
major Marketing push!!

Does BitUSD have any advantage over BitGLD?

From my experience in Argentina, the US dollar is so ubiquitous that it might have an advantage over BitGLD simply because people are used to thinking in dollar terms. The black market exchange rate for the US dollar is published in the major newspapers every morning. I think it would be a lot more difficult to get people thinking in gold terms for pricing than it would be for bitUSD. That's just my opinion. Of course, they would have access to both bitGLD and bitUSD if they wanted to, but in terms of a marketing push, I think bitUSD is the best focus.

Yeah it's BitUSD all the way there. They can adopt this nationwide in less than a year.

The question is how do we do it. How do we get in there?

My approach to be would be to approach the 4/5 biggest Bitcoin entrepreneurs/exchanges and pitch them BitUSD. They should get the opportunity instantly and then we go from there. It looks like this hasn't been done yet.

1. BitPagos 
2. Dr. Bitcoin Venezuala

3. ?
4. ?
5. ?

Xapo is another company with a big presence in Argentina (it was founded by an Argentine entrepreneur). They make bitcoin wallets and bitcoin based debit cards. I don't want to speak too soon, but I have a contact within the company. I met him through a friend and got dinner with him when I was in Argentina. I'm preparing a bit post about marketing within Argentina. I'm going to try to make it comprehensive, so that we can get a bit conversation about this going on it's own thread. I should be able to have it up by tonight.

 +5% Fantastic
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: donkeypong on October 28, 2014, 05:08:45 pm
Might any of those companies make a good partner for us in Argentina? In other words, given their businesses, would they have something to gain by this? (Or does BitShares cut their business model out of the equation?)
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: Method-X on October 28, 2014, 05:11:52 pm
Might any of those companies make a good partner for us in Argentina? In other words, given their businesses, would they have something to gain by this? (Or does BitShares cut their business model out of the equation?)

Good question. What are the benefits to them. I'll continue my research later today when I have more time.
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: donkeypong on October 28, 2014, 05:18:44 pm
Might any of those companies make a good partner for us in Argentina? In other words, given their businesses, would they have something to gain by this? (Or does BitShares cut their business model out of the equation?)

Good question. What are the benefits to them. I'll continue my research later today when I have more time.

And if there isn't a good corporate partner, can we look at other groups that might help give us a foothold (and maybe do some legwork for us)? I've never been to Argentina. Is there a university, an organization, or any institution that might take to this? Do any of you know someone there?
Title: Re: Bytemaster: please read "Crossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore
Post by: donkeypong on October 28, 2014, 05:23:55 pm
We have a volunteer:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10620.msg140393#msg140393