With the addition of the pay reward halving every 4 years, there will now be an absolute hard cap on the number of bitshares.
Starting BTS total: 2.5 billion. This comes from current BTSX (2 billion), plus stake allocated to PTS, AGS, DNS, and VOTE (500 million total).
Starting reward per year: 157,680,000. (50 BTS per block * 6 blocks per minute * 60 minutes per hour * 24 hours per day * 365 days per year).
4 years at this rate is 630,720,000. After that, the reward halves, and in the next 4 years, we add half that. And so on. The total number of bitshares that will EvER be paid to delegates is capped at 1,261,440,000. (In reality it will be less, because many delegates are low pay delegates).
Here is the hard cap of BTS at 4 year intervals:
Nov 2014: 2,500,000,000Nov 2018: 3,130,400,000
Nov 2012: 3,445,600,000
Nov 2016: 3,603,200,000
Nov 2020: 3,682,000,000
Forever: 3,761,440,000
Also, every share of BTS that is ever burned reduces all of these numbers by 1! So every time a share of BTSX is ever burned for trasnaction fees, etc, this cap goes down!
Every time any delegate ever receives less than a full pay block reward, the hard cap goes down!
For example, we are going to have many 3% pay delegates, in with a few full pay delegates who are developers, marketing team, etc.
Every single time one of those 3% pay delegates signs a block, these numbers go down by 47, because that is 47 BTS that cannot be created (because the opportunity to pay the full 50 BTS was missed).
So what is the reality of how many BTS there will be? Significantly less than these numbers! These are a hard cap which occurs only if there are 101 full pay delegates and no shares of BTSX are burned ever. Both of those are not true, and thus the actual amount of BTS will be much lower.
For example, we are going to have many 3% pay delegates, in with a few full pay delegates who are developers, marketing team, etc.
Every single time one of those 3% pay delegates signs a block, these numbers go down by 47, because that is 47 BTS that cannot be created (because the opportunity to pay the full 50 BTS was missed).
With the addition of the pay reward halving every 4 years, there will now be an absolute hard cap on the number of bitshares.+5% .. thanks for the summary
Starting BTS total: 2.5 billion. This comes from current BTSX (2 billion), plus stake allocated to PTS, AGS, DNS, and VOTE (500 million total).
Starting reward per year: 157,680,000. (50 BTS per block * 6 blocks per minute * 60 minutes per hour * 24 hours per day * 365 days per year).
4 years at this rate is 630,720,000. After that, the reward halves, and in the next 4 years, we add half that. And so on. The total number of bitshares that will EvER be paid to delegates is capped at 1,261,440,000. (In reality it will be less, because many delegates are low pay delegates).
Here is the hard cap of BTS at 4 year intervals:
Nov 2014: 2,500,000,000 (maximum 6.3% a year inflation)
Nov 2018: 3,130,720,000 (maximum 3.1% a year inflation)
Nov 2012: 3,446,080,000 (maximum 1.6% a year inflation)
Nov 2016: 3,603,760,000 (maximum 0.8% a year inflation)
Nov 2020: 3,682,600,000 (maximum 0.4% a year inflation)
Forever: 3,761,440,000
Also, every share of BTS that is ever burned reduces all of these numbers by 1! So every time a share of BTSX is ever burned for trasnaction fees, etc, this cap goes down!
Every time any delegate ever receives less than a full pay block reward, the hard cap goes down!
For example, we are going to have many 3% pay delegates, in with a few full pay delegates who are developers, marketing team, etc.
Every single time one of those 3% pay delegates signs a block, these numbers go down by 48.5, because that is 48.5 BTS that cannot be created (because the opportunity to pay the full 50 BTS was missed).
So what is the reality of how many BTS there will be? Significantly less than these numbers! These are a hard cap which occurs only if there are 101 full pay delegates and no shares of BTSX are burned ever. Both of those are not true, and thus the actual amount of BTS will be much lower.
There will be BTS that is burned over time correct?
There will be BTS that is burned over time correct?
There will be BTS that is burned over time correct?
Yes, for many reasons. There will also be lots of this BTS that wont actually be paid out.
I doubt the BTS supply wil ever actually be higher than 3 billion. At some point we should reach a point where supply is actually going down.
Remember that it won't be long before there is a litecoin to our bitcoin. If we can't compete, we'll eventually be overtaken. We may always need marketing via dilution to stay #1. Why put a cap on it at all?
Is this an absolute hard cap? OR could the community in theory vote in future to increase it? (like the US debt "ceiling")
In the (very) long run this isn't feasible. As delegates don't get paid by tx fees anymore and the reward approaches 0.
Bitcoin never has changed it. We have just changed it, which in a way shows we are more dynamic, but also less certain. Past experience is what people judge us all by. Doing it once with clear purpose the market will accept I believe. But maybe "absolute hard cap" is a bit stronger terminology than warranted.Is this an absolute hard cap? OR could the community in theory vote in future to increase it? (like the US debt "ceiling")
This is what the code does.
Changing it would require a code fork and getting everyone on board.
In the end, nothing is impossible. It is possible to change the bitcoin payout system and make it inflate forever, for example, IF you can get a strong agreement and everyone agrees to that fork.
Bitcoin never has changed it. We have just changed it, which in a way shows we are more dynamic, but also less certain. Past experience is what people judge us all by. Doing it once with clear purpose the market will accept I believe. But maybe "absolute hard cap" is a bit stronger terminology than warranted.
Bitcoin never has changed it. We have just changed it, which in a way shows we are more dynamic, but also less certain. Past experience is what people judge us all by. Doing it once with clear purpose the market will accept I believe. But maybe "absolute hard cap" is a bit stronger terminology than warranted.Is this an absolute hard cap? OR could the community in theory vote in future to increase it? (like the US debt "ceiling")
This is what the code does.
Changing it would require a code fork and getting everyone on board.
In the end, nothing is impossible. It is possible to change the bitcoin payout system and make it inflate forever, for example, IF you can get a strong agreement and everyone agrees to that fork.
I think it is also safe to say that unless the market cap falls by 50% or more from where we are today that there should be no need to increase dilution. $3 million dollars per year is what the current system allows delegates to fund. If we can double our market cap then we will have a $6 million dollar budget. These kinds of budgets will scale with our growth and are in line with current burn rates of funding.With regards to organic growth, your statement makes sense to me. But suppose we had the opportunity to on-board the entire community (developers and users) of another high-feature "coin" in the digital currency space, through an airdrop on all the users of those coins, because we thought the feature development in bitShares as well as the network effects would be not just additive but compounded. This may require a much higher one-off dilution of shares. Is this type of thing within scope?
With regards to organic growth, your statement makes sense to me. But suppose we had the opportunity to on-board the entire community (developers and users) of another high-feature "coin" in the digital currency space, through an airdrop on all the users of those coins, because we thought the feature development in bitShares as well as the network effects would be not just additive but compounded. This may require a much higher one-off dilution of shares. Is this type of thing within scope?
Here is the hard cap of BTS at 4 year intervals:
~
Nov 2014
Nov 2018
Nov 2012
Nov 2016
Nov 2020
~
It's 2022 and 2026.Here is the hard cap of BTS at 4 year intervals:
~
Nov 2014
Nov 2018
Nov 2012
Nov 2016
Nov 2020
~
I'm tired but those dates look confused.
I think it is also safe to say that unless the market cap falls by 50% or more from where we are today that there should be no need to increase dilution. $3 million dollars per year is what the current system allows delegates to fund. If we can double our market cap then we will have a $6 million dollar budget. These kinds of budgets will scale with our growth and are in line with current burn rates of funding.With regards to organic growth, your statement makes sense to me. But suppose we had the opportunity to on-board the entire community (developers and users) of another high-feature "coin" in the digital currency space, through an airdrop on all the users of those coins, because we thought the feature development in bitShares as well as the network effects would be not just additive but compounded. This may require a much higher one-off dilution of shares. Is this type of thing within scope?
Here is the hard cap of BTS at 4 year intervals:
~
Nov 2014
Nov 2018
Nov 2012
Nov 2016
Nov 2020
~
I'm tired but those dates look confused.
157,680,000 is max pay per delegate per year.
If all 101 delegates were to receive max pay result would be:
15,925,680,000
157,680,000 is max pay per delegate per year.
If all 101 delegates were to receive max pay result would be:
15,925,680,000
Nope.
157,680,000 is max pay for all 101 delegates put together, per year.
Max pay for one delegate is 1,561,188 BTS per year.
This is exactly why its not a big deal, and why everyone who doesnt understand how it works is massively overreacting and trashing the BTSX price. :)
A max pay delegate gets 50 BTS for each of THEIR blocks, which only come once in each 101 blocks.
Not 50 BTS for everyone's blocks.
If it was the other way then we would be facing massive inflation and I wouldve sold all my bitshares and left already. ;)
In the (very) long run this isn't feasible. As delegates don't get paid by tx fees anymore and the reward approaches 0.
To ensure that the code is robust against need to hard fork the funding model we have decided to pay fees to delegates as well (percentage of fees based on pay rate).
This will maintain the long-running delegate pay model and simply add a bit of dilution to help cover us while we are growing transaction volume.
It's sad BM have no regard of the conventions of bitcoin community, cap increase every month, hard fork every month, must update wallet every month, you still want trust?
It's sad BM have no regard of the conventions of bitcoin community, cap increase every month, hard fork every month, must update wallet every month, you still want trust?
+5% answered my concerns. One hopes that soon we have all delegates on well earned 100% payIn the (very) long run this isn't feasible. As delegates don't get paid by tx fees anymore and the reward approaches 0.
To ensure that the code is robust against need to hard fork the funding model we have decided to pay fees to delegates as well (percentage of fees based on pay rate).
This will maintain the long-running delegate pay model and simply add a bit of dilution to help cover us while we are growing transaction volume.
It's sad BM have no regard of the conventions of bitcoin community, cap increase every month, hard fork every month, must update wallet every month, you still want trust?
This is alpha software, so yes you might have to update every month - so what? It means theyre actually producing new code.
Comparing with Bitcoin is a bit unfair - Bitcoin is just a simple token that doesnt do anything. BitShares is incredibly complicated in comparison.
It's sad BM have no regard of the conventions of bitcoin community, cap increase every month, hard fork every month, must update wallet every month, you still want trust?
delegates manual price feed is the stupiest idea in this day of age, it creates a lot of maual labor to be compansated, I'm very dispointed that BM still hasn't find a better way, use your brains man!
It's sad BM have no regard of the conventions of bitcoin community, cap increase every month, hard fork every month, must update wallet every month, you still want trust?
Bitcoin does just one thing. BitShares is a company with an aggressive list of planned first-of-a-kind services that hopefully will never stop growing.
Our challenge is to strike a balance.Get features and fixes deployed as fast as possible
and
Minimize the number of times users and exchanges have to upgrade.
Trust that we will work hard to strike the right balance,
not that we will somehow accomplish both goals perfectly and simultaneously.
So, if we are doing it right, we should be getting an equal number of complaints about both.
:)
To be certain our official stance is:
1) bitshare holders can dilute without limit by majority approval (to say otherwise is to sign a suiside pact)
The current protocol does NOT allow infinite inflation ... the delegate pay halves ever 4 years IIRC ..
However .. stakeholdera could agree on a hard fork in the future and change the protocol .
Though there is no consensus about the required approval percentage for hard forks ..
.
Though there is no consensus about the required approval percentage for hard forks ..
Due to some of the already destroyed coins , it's less than that actually .
You can track the supply inflation here: https://bitsharesblocks.com/charts/supply
Current annual inflation is edging up towards 2%, well below the current maximum value of 6.3%
Is there a numbers break-down available on the sources of coin destruction?Due to some of the already destroyed coins , it's less than that actually .
It has dropped by almost ~50 million or so by now, due to a combination of having less than 101 paid delegates, and burning shares for various things.
You can track the supply inflation here: https://bitsharesblocks.com/charts/supply
Current annual inflation is edging up towards 2%, well below the current maximum value of 6.3%
You can track the supply inflation here: https://bitsharesblocks.com/charts/supply
Current annual inflation is edging up towards 2%, well below the current maximum value of 6.3%
Some nice stats you could add:
1. The theoretical max, taking into account the BTS that has already been burned
2. The projected max, taking into account the current rate of inflation
What worries me is not the rate of dilution. It's that delegates need to dump their BTS in order cover their costs. No matter what the rate of dilution is, there is constant sell pressure.
I may be wrong on this but I think greed is our ally in getting BTS off the ground. With all the crypto projects pitching revolutionary this and that. I think a sound investment is how you slice it. When the price of something goes up and up, like it or not, people notice. I think the dilution can hurt this which is why many companies choose to take out loans instead of diluting shareholders.
Basically I think it's misleading to look at it as a 6% of inflation. Since it does not mean that BTS will only be worth 6% less. A tiny percentage of dilution, dumped on the market an cause a total crash/downward spiral of the price.
What worries me is not the rate of dilution. It's that delegates need to dump their BTS in order cover their costs. No matter what the rate of dilution is, there is constant sell pressure.
I may be wrong on this but I think greed is our ally in getting BTS off the ground. With all the crypto projects pitching revolutionary this and that. I think a sound investment is how you slice it. When the price of something goes up and up, like it or not, people notice. I think the dilution can hurt this which is why many companies choose to take out loans instead of diluting shareholders.
Basically I think it's misleading to look at it as a 6% of inflation. Since it does not mean that BTS will only be worth 6% less. A tiny percentage of dilution, dumped on the market an cause a total crash/downward spiral of the price.