BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: hotpotato on December 15, 2014, 08:54:20 am
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I have not been regularly following the forum but when I do check in ,boy do I get surprised each time by the inability to sell/pitch such a good product.
Where is the exposure? Even some of the failed scamcoins have seen far more marketing than us. We have been here since December 2013 and now sitting at No.4 on marketcap (all thanks to the chinese) and still most of the cryptoworld is oblivious to what bitshares actually is!
I get that we are still in alpha stage but still do we even have proper videos explaining bitshares yet? The website is just a bunch of pretty pictures. There are no reddit AMA's , No giveaways in IRC etc , no articles in finance sites. What exactly is the "Paid" Official Marketing team been upto so far?
A lot of priority is being given to FMV instead of focusing and establishing the product at hand.
Also the forum reeks of smugness from time to time and distances itself from the crypto masses with its anti-bitcoin approach instead of embracing them and is plainly cornering itself.
Just look at other leading projects like ripple , maidsafe , bitreserve , storj and how they are slowly but cleverly penetrating into the markets and are well on their way to leave bitshares behind in popularity.
The devs are busy at work to a more polished product but that doesn't give the official "paid" marketing team any excuses to become complacent. Show us what you have been doing so far ,reveal your future plans ,create some sort of buzz. Atleast make Bitshares a known name in crypto!
It's the Chinese team who have been commendable so far and now Method-X and his Nullstreet crew show a lot of promise but it has to be Brian and his professional team who need to buck up and start leading from the front .As a ags/pts/bts holder I implore you to Do Your Job!
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It's the Chinese team who have been commendable so far and now Method-X and his Nullstreet crew show a lot of promise but it has to be Brian and his professional team who need to buck up and start leading from the front .As a ags/pts/bts holder I implore you to Do Your Job!
I think BM has them on a result base reward, the result being coinmarketcap. So basically they profited off the Chinese team's hard work till now, and going to earn from Nullstreet's work.
Why bother when others are working to get you your reward?
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I think the situation with the official marketing team is very worrysome. They don't even bother communicating.
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+5% +5% +5% +5%
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It's the Chinese team who have been commendable so far and now Method-X and his Nullstreet crew show a lot of promise but it has to be Brian and his professional team who need to buck up and start leading from the front .As a ags/pts/bts holder I implore you to Do Your Job!
I think BM has them on a result base reward, the result being coinmarketcap. So basically they profited off the Chinese team's hard work till now, and going to earn from Nullstreet's work.
Why bother when others are working to get you your reward?
good point
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I am going to let them know they have to manage their own PR as well.
Brian will be here this week so I will pressure him.
Translation：
我会让他们（Brian）管理他们自己的公关形象。
Brian这个星期会来这里，我会给他增加压力。
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I am going to let them know they have to manage their own PR as well.
Brian will be here this week so I will pressure him.
We can always bring him on for hangouts. I think it would be an hour of his time well worth it. When people don't see someone around at all, they tend to assume the worst. A little community interaction, I believe, will go a LONG way :)
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I am going to let them know they have to manage their own PR as well.
Brian will be here this week so I will pressure him.
We can always bring him on for hangouts. I think it would be an hour of his time well worth it. When people don't see someone around at all, they tend to assume the worst. A little community interaction, I believe, will go a LONG way :)
+5% +5% +5%
The hangout he made (er... a long time ago...) was mouth watering. What was planned seemed huge (even though I don't remember well), and I think it's wise to wait for a 1.0 wallet before starting. But Brian really should have been much more present here... Please, by all means, make that hangout happen !
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I am going to let them know they have to manage their own PR as well.
Brian will be here this week so I will pressure him.
+5%
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We can always bring him on for hangouts. I think it would be an hour of his time well worth it. When people don't see someone around at all, they tend to assume the worst. A little community interaction, I believe, will go a LONG way :)
Yes because right now it appears they have far more better things to do than take care of their part time work in BitShares . ::)
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I am going to let them know they have to manage their own PR as well.
Brian will be here this week so I will pressure him.
+5%
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We can always bring him on for hangouts. I think it would be an hour of his time well worth it. When people don't see someone around at all, they tend to assume the worst. A little community interaction, I believe, will go a LONG way :)
Yes because right now it appears they have far more better things to do than take care of their part time work in BitShares . ::)
Can't disagree really. It does kind of suck that the official marketing team has difficulty marketing themselves to the community...and honestly not a good sign. I don't like to say this because I want to believe the best in this case, but save bitmarket and his recent work the official marketing team has really suffered from a growing divide between the community and themselves (himself?) that was largely unnecessary. There has been plenty of opportunity to interface with the community and keep people's spirits up at the very least.
I don't expect them to give away the secret sauce, but it seems to be a growing consensus behind the scenes that our community has been played. I don't know what else to say except that I have to ultimately wait and see just like everyone else. I will definitely say though that I understand the overall level of frustration.
I am going to let them know they have to manage their own PR as well.
Brian will be here this week so I will pressure him.
+5% You shouldn't have to but thanks.
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There's some stuff that can't be done until 1.0 is released, but there's PLENTY of other stuff to do in the meantime. Just check out Nullstreet....
The lack of communication (or PR, as BM calls it) from the marketing team is concerning, but so is the lack of ACTION. There were a million issues brought up with the new Bitshares.org like a month ago and nothing has been changed at all....that's a HUGE issue that's not very difficult to resolve....what has the team been doing with its time??
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Just came here to say that bitmarket has been doing good work so far.
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Let us launch other initiatives and assume nothing will come from the 'official' marketing.
That is what fran2k + elmato and I are going to do with the 3 month Argentina campaign. It's time to vote for it if you want it.
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Just came here to say that bitmarket has been doing good work so far.
Agreed--though I believe Brian should probably get some credit if it is true he enlisted BitMarket. I just hope that Brian is more working on business relationships behind the scenes. In that case I could see his being relatively silent to keep others in the crypto-sphere from approaching the same people.
Anymore it feels like i'm grasping at straws though as I continue to hear chatter from the community--like I said before, ignoring the community leaves a lot of room for assuming the worst.
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I think the biggest low hanging fruit that could improve bitshares right now would be dissolving the official marketing team. Bitmarket is solid and doing real work, and should stay. I think this is due to the fact that he found the community on his own and the thing that primarily drives him is his passion for crypto.
Brian and murderistic seem to be motivated only by money, as evidenced by the fact that they haven't spent any of the millions of BTS given to them from the AGS fund, and murderistic even thought it would be appropriate to make a new delegate and ask for MORE funds! Me and and literally every person I've spoken to personally in this community would feel so much better if they were absolved of their duties and the AGS funds were either given to someone else, or just burned and thus given back to the community (who can manage funding on its own through the vastly superior system of delegate funding anyway).
I'd even be happy if Brian simply got to keep all the millions of BTS he has already received. I just don't think its good for this community to rely on him in any way any more. It's more a question of respect and loyalty to the community than anything else, and I think it has been proven beyond any doubt that he simply doesn't posses it. Even if he suddenly started delivering (which at this point I highly doubt) as a stakeholder I wouldn't feel comfortable having him in a position of trust in the community.
I think this is how 99% of the community feels. The reason why there has been so relatively little dissent (considering how strongly people feel this) is because more than anything else this community trusts bytemaster. But it's time to face reality and realize that Brian and murderistic have to go, no matter how hard and uncomfortable it is to admit.
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Official:
adjective
1. relating to an authority or public body and its duties, actions, and responsibilities.
noun
1. a person holding public office or having official duties, especially as a representative of an organization or government department.
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We are doing us all a disservice to use the word 'Official' in reference to this particular marketing team.
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Just came here to say that bitmarket has been doing good work so far.
+5%
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I think the biggest low hanging fruit that could improve bitshares right now would be dissolving the official marketing team. Bitmarket is solid and doing real work, and should stay. I think this is due to the fact that he found the community on his own and the thing that primarily drives him is his passion for crypto.
Brian and murderistic seem to be motivated only by money, as evidenced by the fact that they haven't spent any of the millions of BTS given to them from the AGS fund, and murderistic even thought it would be appropriate to make a new delegate and ask for MORE funds! Me and and literally every person I've spoken to personally in this community would feel so much better if they were absolved of their duties and the AGS funds were either given to someone else, or just burned and thus given back to the community (who can manage funding on its own through the vastly superior system of delegate funding anyway).
I'd even be happy if Brian simply got to keep all the millions of BTS he has already received. I just don't think its good for this community to rely on him in any way any more. It's more a question of respect and loyalty to the community than anything else, and I think it has been proven beyond any doubt that he simply doesn't posses it. Even if he suddenly started delivering (which at this point I highly doubt) as a stakeholder I wouldn't feel comfortable having him in a position of trust in the community.
I think this is how 99% of the community feels. The reason why there has been so relatively little dissent (considering how strongly people feel this) is because more than anything else this community trusts bytemaster. But it's time to face reality and realize that Brian and murderistic have to go, no matter how hard and uncomfortable it is to admit.
As much as a part of me really resonates with this, I feel like we should hold out until this marketing campaign launches. At this point it matters little if we dissolve the official marketing team or keep it except that if we dissolve it we are 100% certain it was a failure. If we let it go through, at least there is a sliver of a chance they prove the community wrong. I would truly like Brian to have that opportunity...especially if he does.
Official:
adjective
1. relating to an authority or public body and its duties, actions, and responsibilities.
noun
1. a person holding public office or having official duties, especially as a representative of an organization or government department.
----
We are doing us all a disservice to use the word 'Official' in reference to this particular marketing team.
I wish I could agree. What makes this marketing team "Official" is that they were paid a lump sum in the very beginning (to be fair "they" was Brian). People are upset for good reason imho as Brian gladly accepted a very large sum of money and the community has seen very little that reassures them he has earned it. I sincerely believe that had Brian interfaced with the community on a regular basis it would have at the very least served to instill a level of trust that he no longer can easily regain.
Over the course of 6-8 months of this festering...there were ample opportunities to really make everyone feel like he was first and foremost there for them. Bytemaster as always served as the perfect model of trust in this ecosystem. All Brian had to do was (somewhat) emulate him. Even if he is doing awesome work behind the scenes, he does himself a severe disservice by ignoring the community's concerns. We are a community built on the need for transparency after all.
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Even if he suddenly started delivering (which at this point I highly doubt) as a stakeholder I wouldn't feel comfortable having him in a position of trust in the community.
+5% +5% +5% +5% +5% +5% +5% +5%
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I agree that Bitmarket is doing great work. But Brian is the one in charge of marketing, and we have no idea what he's doing.
Let's have some transparency with the marketing. Please.
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How much evidence of a lack of production is needed before a change in leadership is considered in marketing?
How much money needs to be spent with out a measurable ROI? Does anyone realize that with just $10k/month the right leader could run an entire marketing company with constant measurable production? And, that is not even considering this glorious community of passionate volunteers...that goes ignored!
Waiting for 1.0 is simply the fashionable excuse for this quarter, and completely irrelevant. There are infinite amounts opportunities to gain traction, users, good will, PR, traffic and educate. I would understand it somewhat if we were talking about a completely volunteer effort that never got paid a nickel, but that is simply not the case. By that line of thinking we should be at 0 market cap, waiting for 1.0. It does not make any sense.
It is a shame that after a year so absolutely little has been produced and yet nothing has fundamentally changed with official marketing efforts and its structure.
What options do we have as a community/shareholders to make changes in this area? The official marketing team and strategy seems to be ideologically and intellectually opposed to the philosophy of Bitshares that drew me into this community in the beginning.
On a positive note, the Nullstreet boys are encouraging, and personally give me hope where I had honestly lost it in terms of marketing.
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@fuzzy the inconvenient truth is that there is no marketing campaign. There's bitshares.tv, but beyond that there is nothing.
But let's say they finally got scared into actually beginning to do something. Is that really the employees we want, even if they deliver? I'd say no, workers who have to be pushed to do their job are terrible in the long run. There are plenty of highly motivated and highly skilled marketers in nullstreet, each of them with CVs and portfolios at least as impressive as Brian's supposedly is. I've personally "met" 3 legitimate internet marketing professionals so far, and there is also hpenvy and matt806 who are clearly very passionate "doers". The crucial difference is they are proactive in their efforts, and they are members of our community, which is the single most important thing for a worker to be (and IMO a hard requirement). The opportunity to perform should be given them, the members of our community. Not Brian, a non-member, for the 10000th time.
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Bitshares has competition, not doing anything, isn't the right direction, especially if it's being payed.
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I remain optimistic, much as fuzzy.
It would be nice if he touched base with the community though.
My question is, hasn't his employ already been discontinued since August? (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6841.0)
I'll continue on as brand champion for BitShares and will still be very involved with the BitShares team, but will no longer draw a salary.
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@fuzzy the inconvenient truth is that there is no marketing campaign. There's bitshares.tv, but beyond that there is nothing.
But let's say they finally got scared into actually beginning to do something. Is that really the employees we want, even if they deliver? I'd say no, workers who have to be pushed to do their job are terrible in the long run. There are plenty of highly motivated and highly skilled marketers in nullstreet, each of them with CVs and portfolios at least as impressive as Brian's supposedly is. I've personally "met" 3 legitimate internet marketing professionals so far, and there is also hpenvy and matt806 who are clearly very passionate "doers". The crucial difference is they are proactive in their efforts, and they are members of our community, which is the single most important thing for a worker to be (and IMO a hard requirement). The opportunity to perform should be given them, the members of our community. Not Brian, a non-member, for the 10000th time.
I wish I could argue your points. Almost 3 years worth of 100% delegate funding :/
I think we are just going to have to chalk this up to the growing pains of an industry where nearly everything we are doing is for the first time. I have heard BM say that Brian has helped make them some big time connections--but the problem with that is that nothing has come from these connections to date. What is worse---no updates...and no interfacing with the community. The thing is, when someone is willing to stand up to a good trolling in this ecosystem and can stand tall afterwards...it brings a very tangible level of respect and trust.
I am holding out hope, but I think you are being far more logical than I am in abandoning it.
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We could have also used the money/Bitshares to give out to people on Bitshares Reddit, have grown the user base on reddit with giveaways. The marketing team must do regular giveaways and AMA's on reddit, we have less than 700 subscribers on there.
http://www.reddit.com/r/BitShares
Giveaways increase the # of registered users on Bitshares reddit and for the Bitshares wallet, and once those users get familiar with the software they tell their friends and also purchase assets to play with.
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Without any information, it is easy to jump to conclusions. That said, marketing is all about communication and so little impact from the official marketing team is a missed opportunity for them; they could be using the community to leverage an order of magnitude more excitement.
Waiting for 1.0 is a lame excuse, given that bit-assets are there.. sell that opportunity now.
At a guess the mistake might be to have confused sales and marketing, overplayed the attendance in the real world and perhaps making pitches to big players in real world finance.. Miami might be nice at this time of year but online impact perhaps is more important at this stage, as is keeping the community engaged and not letting BM and other core devs unnecessarily waste their time on that.
:-\
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Well the excuse so far has been "it's not ready for mainstream adoption yet."
Right?
I can totally see that as applicable. I'm an outright nerd and most of the people here are even worse than me. John Q. Sixpack is not ready. That's why I side with fuzzy on this one still.
I'm holding out hope that once everything is nice and sleek and bug free and forks are few and far in between if ever, several DAC services are coming up and running, there's a mobile phone client, plenty of onramps maybe a cap approaching a billion dollars... then boom!
Nuclear marketing explosion. Release of some killer app that's in the works. Integration into google play. Television commercials. Something. Who the hell knows.
Idk why, I could just see it playing out like that.
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I gotta agree with Rune. Even if Brian has something big planned, the total lack of action in the interim makes me think that he's not the person who should be leading this project. I'd feel much more comfortable having Methodx in charge of marketing. He took the time and effort to set up Nullstreet and get TONS of initiatives going in the meantime.
Does Brian deserve the opportunity to respond and prove himself? I guess so. Even if he can't reveal his "secret sauce" to the community, what he NEEDS to do at the very least is hold a meeting with the top guys from Nullstreet (Methodx, HPenvy) and describe to them in detail his plan. I trust those guys far more than I trust him, as they are active members of the community doing real things.
That being said, we've called for marketing transparency before and haven't gotten it. The one thing we CAN do is hire more marketing delegates, starting with Matt608 who is going to tackle Argentina, one of the most important markets out there for us. VOTE!
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I gotta agree with Rune. Even if Brian has something big planned, the total lack of action in the interim makes me think that he's not the person who should be leading this project. I'd feel much more comfortable having Methodx in charge of marketing. He took the time and effort to set up Nullstreet and get TONS of initiatives going in the meantime.
Does Brian deserve the opportunity to respond and prove himself? I guess so. Even if he can't reveal his "secret sauce" to the community, what he NEEDS to do at the very least is hold a meeting with the top guys from Nullstreet (Methodx, HPenvy) and describe to them in detail his plan. I trust those guys far more than I trust him, as they are active members of the community doing real things.
That being said, we've called for marketing transparency before and haven't gotten it. The one thing we CAN do is hire more marketing delegates, starting with Matt608 who is going to tackle Argentina, one of the most important markets out there for us. VOTE!
You have hit the heart of all these issues with this post. +5%
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My primary problem with the marketing or sales situation is the DENIAL OF TRANSPARENCY.
It just seems that no matter how many time this is brought up, it ALWAYS falls on deaf ears. It is fortunate that the concepts in BitShares are so good that we have all continued despite the above problem.
Nullstreet is the community's/MethodX's response to the lack of transparency, so we at least have that.
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There's some stuff that can't be done until 1.0 is released, but there's PLENTY of other stuff to do in the meantime. Just check out Nullstreet....
The lack of communication (or PR, as BM calls it) from the marketing team is concerning, but so is the lack of ACTION. There were a million issues brought up with the new Bitshares.org like a month ago and nothing has been changed at all....that's a HUGE issue that's not very difficult to resolve....what has the team been doing with its time??
My thoughts exactly! The inaction on the website is especially shameful. Like you said, the active marketing campaign can't really begin until 1.0, but any passive informational marketing resource like the website needs to be providing the best information possible for people who happen to discover it in the mean time.
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i think marketing is all that can be done ... with an alfa wallet
better not promote too much until devs finish 1.0 wallet ... better for no create scamed people (maybe some people is desiring have problems to start launch shit arround)
you can see outthere how improbement grows in all coins, i pruffer make changes (add code time tons of work to change wiki, web, forum etc) than release a not functional old finished product.
have plenty faith in team and his vision of how to.
100% confidence 8)
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i think marketing is all that can be done ... with an alfa wallet
better not promote too much until devs finish 1.0 wallet ... better for no create scamed people (maybe some people is desiring have problems to start launch shit arround)
you can see outthere how improbement grows in all coins, i pruffer make changes (add code time tons of work to change wiki, web, forum etc) than release a not functional old finished product.
have plenty faith in team and his vision of how to.
100% confidence 8)
There is plenty of marketing that can be done to early adopters. Yes, mass marketing to non-tech people needs to wait for v1.0, but that is not a valid excuse to do absolutely nothing to start getting the early adopters in. It is critical that we have enough early adopters to help out when mass adoption begins.
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It is critical that we have enough early adopters to help out when mass adoption begins.
+5% This right here. It's essential we have more early adopters if we ever hope to cross the chasm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Chasm).
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I think the biggest low hanging fruit that could improve bitshares right now would be dissolving the official marketing team.
Come on, man. We haven't even seen their work yet. All we've heard is that this marketing team's got tons of stuff ready to go and is waiting for a 1.0 client. Make this judgment after that. And as far as I'm concerned, in the meantime, let's vote in some good marketing delegates as well.
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I seriously don't know what you guys are complaining about. Nothing can be marketed until version 187.5.1 comes out in Q4 2035. I can't tell you what that push is or what strategy we are using because someone else might steal the ideas and run with it in the meantime. All I can tell you is we are planning to coincide our marketing push along with the first manned mission to Mars and we will launch BitMARS at the same time. BitMARS will be a decentralized cryptoPlanet. Kind of like a real planet, but on a blockchain. The first of its kind. Buying BitMARS will give you ownership rights to a piece of property on Mars. How will this work? Well, as long as most of the then 10 billion people on earth buy it, majority consensus will override any government action to take it from them/us. It will be traded through BitReserves platform because in all reality, they will have a bigger network and marketing effect than Bitshares as we await the release of their first product BitOiL, scheduled for release in 2030. How dumb of BitReserve to market something before they even have a product?
And that new Star Wars movie must be completely finished and ready to go since they already started marketing it. Right? Maybe it's not done and Disney doesn't know what the F*** they are doing. How dare they market something that won't be released until Q4 2015?
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+5%
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I seriously don't know what you guys are complaining about. Nothing can be marketed until version 187.5.1 comes out in Q4 2035. I can't tell you what that push is or what strategy we are using because someone else might steal the ideas and run with it in the meantime. All I can tell you is we are planning to coincide our marketing push along with the first manned mission to Mars and we will launch BitMARS at the same time. BitMARS will be a decentralized cryptoPlanet. Kind of like a real planet, but on a blockchain. The first of its kind. Buying BitMARS will give you ownership rights to a piece of property on Mars. How will this work? Well, as long as most of the then 10 billion people on earth buy it, majority consensus will override any government action to take it from them/us. It will be traded through BitReserves platform because in all reality, they will have a bigger network and marketing effect than Bitshares as we await the release of their first product BitOiL, scheduled for release in 2030. How dumb of BitReserve to market something before they even have a product?
And that new Star Wars movie must be completely finished and ready to go since they already started marketing it. Right? Maybe it's not done and Disney doesn't know what the F*** they are doing. How dare they market something that won't be released until Q4 2015?
Lool
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It is critical that we have enough early adopters to help out when mass adoption begins.
+5% This right here. It's essential we have more early adopters if we ever hope to cross the chasm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Chasm).
Agreed, we could have been having marketing focused at getting more core early adopters, during this time before 1.0 released.
I frequently see things like press releases from CoinTelegraph (on CMC), which discuss some positive development in another coin. Or even fricking bitReserve! And I think: We already have something better than that! Why does not one report on anything about bitshares? Why does no one seem to care?
I'd rather focus on positive things now, such as: Everyone who has not yet done so, NEEDS to go vote for matt608's argentina marketing delegate. I am certain that the value per dollar spent on his campaign will be much greater than the official marketing.
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I am going to let them know they have to manage their own PR as well.
Brian will be here this week so I will pressure him.
Translation：
我会让他们（Brian）管理他们自己的公关形象。
Brian这个星期会来这里，我会给他增加压力。
+5%
I think the biggest low hanging fruit that could improve bitshares right now would be dissolving the official marketing team. Bitmarket is solid and doing real work, and should stay. I think this is due to the fact that he found the community on his own and the thing that primarily drives him is his passion for crypto.
Brian and murderistic seem to be motivated only by money, as evidenced by the fact that they haven't spent any of the millions of BTS given to them from the AGS fund, and murderistic even thought it would be appropriate to make a new delegate and ask for MORE funds! Me and and literally every person I've spoken to personally in this community would feel so much better if they were absolved of their duties and the AGS funds were either given to someone else, or just burned and thus given back to the community (who can manage funding on its own through the vastly superior system of delegate funding anyway).
I'd even be happy if Brian simply got to keep all the millions of BTS he has already received. I just don't think its good for this community to rely on him in any way any more. It's more a question of respect and loyalty to the community than anything else, and I think it has been proven beyond any doubt that he simply doesn't posses it. Even if he suddenly started delivering (which at this point I highly doubt) as a stakeholder I wouldn't feel comfortable having him in a position of trust in the community.
I think this is how 99% of the community feels. The reason why there has been so relatively little dissent (considering how strongly people feel this) is because more than anything else this community trusts bytemaster. But it's time to face reality and realize that Brian and murderistic have to go, no matter how hard and uncomfortable it is to admit.
There's nothing I can say to improve upon Rune's articulation - I agree completely.
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I feel that if bitshares had the ethereum marketing team instead, we wouldve surpassed bitcoin already.
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i think marketing is all that can be done ... with an alfa wallet
Really? Check out Bitreserve. They just started, and are already running away with BitGOLD and BitOIL with no product.
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Really? Check out Bitreserve. They just started, and are already running away with BitGOLD and BitOIL with no product.
Yup, and way more people know about Etherum than know about bitshares, and Ethereum doesnt even exist yet.
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It is critical that we have enough early adopters to help out when mass adoption begins.
+5% This right here. It's essential we have more early adopters if we ever hope to cross the chasm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Chasm).
I'd rather focus on positive things now, such as: Everyone who has not yet done so, NEEDS to go vote for matt608's argentina marketing delegate. I am certain that the value per dollar spent on his campaign will be much greater than the official marketing.
argentina-marketing.matt608
Please vote him in. Do it today.
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I seriously don't know what you guys are complaining about. Nothing can be marketed until version 187.5.1 comes out in Q4 2035. I can't tell you what that push is or what strategy we are using because someone else might steal the ideas and run with it in the meantime. All I can tell you is we are planning to coincide our marketing push along with the first manned mission to Mars and we will launch BitMARS at the same time. BitMARS will be a decentralized cryptoPlanet. Kind of like a real planet, but on a blockchain. The first of its kind. Buying BitMARS will give you ownership rights to a piece of property on Mars. How will this work? Well, as long as most of the then 10 billion people on earth buy it, majority consensus will override any government action to take it from them/us. It will be traded through BitReserves platform because in all reality, they will have a bigger network and marketing effect than Bitshares as we await the release of their first product BitOiL, scheduled for release in 2030. How dumb of BitReserve to market something before they even have a product?
And that new Star Wars movie must be completely finished and ready to go since they already started marketing it. Right? Maybe it's not done and Disney doesn't know what the F*** they are doing. How dare they market something that won't be released until Q4 2015?
lolololol...We seriously need some good news soon or else Marketing will have to attract new shareholders from scratch... We don't need to go to $20 mil market cap and screw the existing hodlers for Marketing to launch...
Pls. let's not become like NXT where every time NXT was dropping people spread "joy" about better distribution and how good this is...BTS should not be at this market cap now..This is depressing and there is no excuse...And even more depressing is that most people still don't know and don't care about BTS...
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You know it's bad when NewMine is on point. ;D
It's disappointing but no reason to be depressed. Everyone wants overnight success but we're doing ok. BitShares is still by far the strongest Bitcoin2.0 offering.. CounterParty's marketcap should be much bigger; if it was Mastercoin, then feel free to get depressed or optimistic, I don't know.
bitUSD and other tokens pegged to fiat and assets like Gold is a gift to marketing, even without the full utility of being able to spend that as currency, the idea of being able to short the dollar etc should be an easy sell. That's before any mention of other DACs.
Do we have presence on BTT?.. perhaps more could be done to engage there?.. I hardly visit it now but perhaps there's a new generation to hook. What everyone needs perhaps is the next wave of Bitcoin buyers looking into what is beyond Bitcoin.
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Do we have presence on BTT?.. perhaps more could be done to engage there?.. I hardly visit it now but perhaps there's a new generation to hook. What everyone needs perhaps is the next wave of Bitcoin buyers looking into what is beyond Bitcoin.
BTT = bitcointalk? I've thought about running a low cost campaign of paying hand picked members (non-trolls) for their sig space to promote Bitshares there. Something else I would do once elected.
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Do we have presence on BTT?.. perhaps more could be done to engage there?.. I hardly visit it now but perhaps there's a new generation to hook. What everyone needs perhaps is the next wave of Bitcoin buyers looking into what is beyond Bitcoin.
BTT = bitcointalk? I've thought about running a low cost campaign of paying hand picked members for their sig space to promote Bitshares there. Something else I would do once elected.
I can run a campaign, or get somebody to do so if needed; I am pretty active on BTCtalk.
I suggested the same when the Music fundraiser was ongoing.
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Do we have presence on BTT?.. perhaps more could be done to engage there?.. I hardly visit it now but perhaps there's a new generation to hook. What everyone needs perhaps is the next wave of Bitcoin buyers looking into what is beyond Bitcoin.
BTT = bitcointalk? I've thought about running a low cost campaign of paying hand picked members for their sig space to promote Bitshares there. Something else I would do once elected.
I can run a campaign, or get somebody to do so if needed; I am pretty active on BTCtalk.
I suggested the same when the Music fundraiser was ongoing.
Great, that will make it easier, I just need to get a few more percent of the votes and we can get started.
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Yes depressing was not the correct word. Disappointing is more appropriate...
1 year ago when BM was pitching about BTS, Insurance DAC, ME etc was a much better marketing approach than any existing marketing approach from the "marketing team"
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Do we have presence on BTT?.. perhaps more could be done to engage there?.. I hardly visit it now but perhaps there's a new generation to hook. What everyone needs perhaps is the next wave of Bitcoin buyers looking into what is beyond Bitcoin.
BTT = bitcointalk? I've thought about running a low cost campaign of paying hand picked members for their sig space to promote Bitshares there. Something else I would do once elected.
I can run a campaign, or get somebody to do so if needed; I am pretty active on BTCtalk.
I suggested the same when the Music fundraiser was ongoing.
Great, that will make it easier, I just need to get a few more percent of the votes and we can get started.
Sure, message me and we can discuss; or better still open a thread about in the relevant section.
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Soon this tread is going to be forgotten like many similar before. But the main problem is going to remain. From my prospective it is not the problem with marketing it is problem with effective leadership.
The marketing is inefficient all right. But there are more problems that are not so obvious. Like undelivered promises, prolonging schedules, no coordination, ineffective use of community’s and outer resources and many more. All those things are left to self management. BM has offered his leadership but it only applies to development and vision. How about the rest. At the beginning of Bitshares that role belonged to Charles Hoskins, as far as I know, and when he left it belonged to no one.
As I have trying to point before self management is a not good idea, especially if you don’t have some kind of sophisticated coordination mechanism. Voting is not sophisticated coordination mechanism and until someone come up with good one, we need some old fashion leadership.
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..we need some old fashion leadership.
Yes but while they sleep we can plow ahead with a BTT thread as above.. I expect just something that's easy to keep alive, bumped now and then with tease about the increasing market cap of bitUSD and perhaps dollar speculation - or just blatent dollar speculation and link to zerohedge if you want to kickup a storm; something perhaps that also can also answer simple questions about using bitAssets, might be worthwhile.
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@bytemaster - is there a project timeline that can be released to the community? Even a high level one would be appreciated.
Thanks
M
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It's the Chinese team who have been commendable so far and now Method-X and his Nullstreet crew show a lot of promise but it has to be Brian and his professional team who need to buck up and start leading from the front .As a ags/pts/bts holder I implore you to Do Your Job!
I think BM has them on a result base reward, the result being coinmarketcap. So basically they profited off the Chinese team's hard work till now, and going to earn from Nullstreet's work.
Why bother when others are working to get you your reward?
I am afraid this could be the reason. There will never be any loss for Brain's team, so they don't have any pressure... If they don't update their work every week, no one knows whether they are working for BTS or not...
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@bytemaster - is there a project timeline that can be released to the community? Even a high level one would be appreciated.
BitShares: Hot as the sun and nine months pregnant with septuplets!
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kQpNdmTbjSw/Tbg3VNupteI/AAAAAAAAGsA/Y8M57T8YNko/s1600/Huge-pregnant-belly-1.jpg)
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I would feel 1million BTS better if BM would confirm that he
A. Has seen with his own eyes the wave of marketing that Brain is going to blow us away with
B. That BM has told Brain to not do any marketing until the release of 1.0
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@bytemaster - is there a project timeline that can be released to the community? Even a high level one would be appreciated.
Thanks
M
Next month. Or next quarter is the one consistent answer we get going back to Feb of this year.
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It's the Chinese team who have been commendable so far and now Method-X and his Nullstreet crew show a lot of promise but it has to be Brian and his professional team who need to buck up and start leading from the front .As a ags/pts/bts holder I implore you to Do Your Job!
I think BM has them on a result base reward, the result being coinmarketcap. So basically they profited off the Chinese team's hard work till now, and going to earn from Nullstreet's work.
Why bother when others are working to get you your reward?
I am afraid this could be the reason. There will never be any loss for Brain's team, so they don't have any pressure... If they don't update their work every week, no one knows whether they are working for BTS or not...
Riding coat tails is a lot easier than blazing trails.
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lolololol...We seriously need some good news soon or else Marketing will have to attract new shareholders from scratch... We don't need to go to $20 mil market cap and screw the existing hodlers for Marketing to launch...
Indeed. In fact, we dont even need 'new' good news. We just need the new features that have been developed to be promoted to the crypto media, so that anyone at all in the crypto space will hear about them.
Pls. let's not become like NXT where every time NXT was dropping people spread "joy" about better distribution and how good this is...BTS should not be at this market cap now..This is depressing and there is no excuse...And even more depressing is that most people still don't know and don't care about BTS...
I agree. Also, note that when market caps go down, it usually results in the distribution becoming WORSE in terms of adoption rates. That is, generally when things go down, many people are selling them to the few large whales who still believe and who accumulate. When things go up, these value investors distribute them back to a larger number of new holders at higher prices.
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and the funny stuff is
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=4287
he is watching us, but not talking and telling us! Have a nice Chrismas.
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He's been in touch with the nullstreet crowd and plenty of individual members. These guys are not idle by any means. They also don't want to reveal all their secrets before there's something to promote.
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I don't understand the "secret" BS and why anyone is buying that. Outline your job for the community or I and anyone else dissatisfied vote you out...the end. Isn't Bitshares supposed to be viewed as a company? Someone not doing their job, other employees and stockholders peeved, you're outta here. >:(
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He's been in touch with the nullstreet crowd and plenty of individual members. These guys are not idle by any means. They also don't want to reveal all their secrets before there's something to promote.
I don't like promises and no results. I don't like talk and no action.
Nullstreet is doing more in a couple of days then BP has done in months. I am really curious what campaign with 1.0 is coming and maybe we all are wrong here. But i see it in this talking and secret mumbo jumbo. Doesn't fit in an open source project. Just some outlines would be good, but maybe it is to late.
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He's been in touch with the nullstreet crowd and plenty of individual members. These guys are not idle by any means. They also don't want to reveal all their secrets before there's something to promote.
(http://greenlining.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Secret-Sauce.jpeg)(http://yawkeywayreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/drink-the-kool-aid.jpg)
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Marketing is a game of data collection, analysis, timing, strategy, developing communication channels, and constant feedback. Generally speaking the C-level sets the high level business goals and then determines via collaboration with the CMO what messages need to be communicated, to whom, how to broadcast, the metrics defining success, and what type of feedback systems will be integrated into the campaign. In terms of a product launch, you also have the dual task of branding and differentiation from competitors.
Some of the core challenges facing bitshares is that the marketing team needs to concurrently manage communication about development progress, changes in the social contracts established via angelshares and protoshares, expectation management for released features, differentiate features from other ecosystems like counterparty and nxt as well as increase overall sustainable network population and participation. Not really an easy task; however, it's been further complicated by some idiotic desire to increase bitshare's market cap. This frankly is a vanity metric that has nothing to do with the long term health of the bitshares ecosystem.
Rather one ought to ask what problems does bitshares fundamentally solve, are these problems easy to understand, and is it easy to integrate new members into the community? Also who are the core customer segments you want to adopt bitshares? Saying everyone is a non-answer. There is always a primary target market for every product regardless of how big or small it happens to be. Where do these customers live? How do they communicate and consume information? Who are the key leaders in their communities they have trusted relationships with? I hear things like 'let's get person XYZ into our community because they have a big following..." It's only a valid approach iff this person is a key leader in the particular community you want to integrate.
Furthermore, what happens when things go wrong? When deadlines are missed? Software quality is substandard? Forks and countermovements occur? Who is responsible for managing the crisis and how will they approach these duties? You guys currently have two very different communities with one being an american, libertarian white man 20-35 demographic and the other being chinese with somewhat different politics and goals. How do you manage the needs of each? Recent events show how that can go wrong and how quickly bad information can spread and impact the health of the ecosystem.
A real marketing team asks these questions and then negotiates a plan with the executive team and is held publicly accountable to some set of metrics. Second, with all open source projects and social networks, marketers always try to develop and empower surrogates to vastly increase the virality of the network. What incentives do you currently have to spread bitshares outside of price appreciation? What if someone is bitshares poor, but loves the community and ideas? What incentives does he have to spread the network outside of part time passion?
Finally, when a person has issues, who listens and how are they reached? Forums are universal echo chambers that are easy to ignore and easy to pander. Can stakeholders get better accountability through other means and who's responsible for managing that process?
I feel that if bitshares had the ethereum marketing team instead, we wouldve surpassed bitcoin already.
Well you did from July to October :) Levity aside, every project has a different growth curve and marketing demands. Ethereum is a fundamentally different project from Bitshares and it's not fair to equate the two. They solve different problems.
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I don't understand the "secret" BS and why anyone is buying that. Outline your job for the community or I and anyone else dissatisfied vote you out...the end. Isn't Bitshares supposed to be viewed as a company? Someone not doing their job, other employees and stockholders peeved, you're outta here. >:(
They've been outlining it; listen to the past podcasts and forum threads. The story just doesn't change a lot when you don't yet have a product to sell.
145 new members joined this forum the other day. It's been a big week for sign-ups. Which came without a corresponding increase in the market cap. Now, most of those could be spammers and bots. But don't you think it's possible that a few CounterParty, NXT, Ethereum, and other members regularly scout here for ideas? I still don't feel like any of these are full competitors; we have a different niche just like they do. But my point is that not everyone reading this forum has good intentions, and by that I mean BitShares' best interests, in mind. Maybe Brian and company could be doing a much better job at internal marketing (e.g. keeping members informed). But you let the wrong people in on what you're planning and the next thing you know, most of your big ideas have been stolen or neutralized.
No marketing person in his right mind would do that before a product launch. Just wait a bit longer. Or support some more marketing delegates you like; I think we need even more, in addition to the main marketing team and Methodx.
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however, it's been further complicated by some idiotic desire to increase bitshare's market cap. This frankly is a vanity metric that has nothing to do with the long term health of the bitshares ecosystem.
Bitshares started inflating the money supply to pay people. What you can pay people in buying power is directly related to the market cap. The same thing goes with paying for anything by fixed amounts of BTS. It is still a fiat world.
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Bitshares started inflating the money supply to pay people. What you can pay people in buying power is directly related to the market cap. The same thing goes with paying for anything by fixed amounts of BTS. It is still a fiat world.
Doing a better job at sustainable adoption and increasing network virality will naturally increase the market cap and liquidity. Market cap is a symptom not an end itself. Treating it like an end goal leads to shortcuts that aren't sustainable.
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145 new members joined this forum the other day.
140 fake accounts and 5 new members joined this forum the other day, sadly.
No marketing person in his right mind would do that before a product launch. Just wait a bit longer.
I dont think any of us want the marketing team to give away any secrets.
What we want is for there to be any pre-1.0 marketing at all, aimed at getting people out there in the crypto world to be aware that bitshares exists, and to have some idea about what it is.
Marketing about an upcoming product release does not require the product to exist yet, or all its secrets to be given away. This could have been done, but it wasnt.
Regarding the market cap: Market cap is a symptom of success, in terms of reaching people, building a community, getting people interested. Of course we are concerned about the market cap, because it has been indicating that support for bitshares has been dwindling, not increasing. This observation matches up perfectly with the observation that there has been no marketing whatsoever, even though we have an official marketing team.
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Bitshares started inflating the money supply to pay people. What you can pay people in buying power is directly related to the market cap. The same thing goes with paying for anything by fixed amounts of BTS. It is still a fiat world.
Doing a better job at sustainable adoption and increasing network virality will naturally increase the market cap and liquidity. Market cap is a symptom not an end itself. Treating it like an end goal leads to shortcuts that aren't sustainable.
The goal is to increase the VALUE of BTS. Market cap is a measure of this.
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The goal is to increase the VALUE of BTS. Market cap is a measure of this.
Only if the price is sustainable and also there is market liquidity. Massive volatility and illiquid markets benefit no one.
Brian needs to bring measurable results to the table. We will figure this out this week.
I just want everyone to know that I share your frustration.
Ask yourself what customer segments do you want to attract and what type of relationship do you want to have with them? Second, get Brain and co on both OKRs and a set of meaningful negotiated metrics. To brainstorm, I'd recommend looking at other projects in the space and listing what you admire and mistakes you want to avoid. Third, you need a china strategy. This is bitshares greatest strength compared to other projects. You have a vibrant, unutilized chinese community. They need to be engaged and leveraged.
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thanks bm for your hard leadership and sincerity!
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Thanks BM so much for this post!
* I like that you are going to work on a blog. This will help us communicate your vision. This could be very helpful towards getting the libertarian community interested in bitshares!
* I'm very excited about Bitshares TV. This has a lot of potential.
* Getting more positive media articles about Bitshares in the crypto media world should be a priority! This could have a strong positive impact. We need to get more presence in the general mindset of crypto enthusiasts. Everyone knows about Ethereum, but tons of people out there have never investigated bitshares at all. That is a lot of untapped potential that we might be able to get to grow our core support base.
I think we all feel that we have overpaid for what we have gotten in terms of those conference connections, business connections, being hooked up with those marketing talents like Max. But the fact that we overpaid isnt the end of the world. After all, bitcoin grew from nothing with no marketing budget. We have the ability to pay people from the blockchain now, so we can continue to fund marketing forever. We have methodX and hpEnvy and matt608 and others from the community who are now seeing successes in their efforts.
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It is critical that we have enough early adopters to help out when mass adoption begins.
+5% This right here. It's essential we have more early adopters if we ever hope to cross the chasm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Chasm).
Agreed, we could have been having marketing focused at getting more core early adopters, during this time before 1.0 released.
I frequently see things like press releases from CoinTelegraph (on CMC), which discuss some positive development in another coin. Or even fricking bitReserve! And I think: We already have something better than that! Why does not one report on anything about bitshares? Why does no one seem to care?
I'd rather focus on positive things now, such as: Everyone who has not yet done so, NEEDS to go vote for matt608's argentina marketing delegate. I am certain that the value per dollar spent on his campaign will be much greater than the official marketing.
I'm still waiting for a stable update wallet though Dacunlimited so I can vote for matt608 (and Methodx). 4.25 was a mess.
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It is critical that we have enough early adopters to help out when mass adoption begins.
+5% This right here. It's essential we have more early adopters if we ever hope to cross the chasm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Chasm).
Agreed, we could have been having marketing focused at getting more core early adopters, during this time before 1.0 released.
I frequently see things like press releases from CoinTelegraph (on CMC), which discuss some positive development in another coin. Or even fricking bitReserve! And I think: We already have something better than that! Why does not one report on anything about bitshares? Why does no one seem to care?
I'd rather focus on positive things now, such as: Everyone who has not yet done so, NEEDS to go vote for matt608's argentina marketing delegate. I am certain that the value per dollar spent on his campaign will be much greater than the official marketing.
I'm still waiting for a stable update wallet though Dacunlimited so I can vote for matt608 (and Methodx). 4.25 was a mess.
The v0.4.26 at bitshares.org may still be a little buggy, but I have found it good enough for voting.
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I feel that if bitshares had the ethereum marketing team instead, we wouldve surpassed bitcoin already.
Ethereum is the perfect case against the philosophy that we need to have a stable product before we can market....not true!
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BP is here in Blacksburg this week and we need to identify what we want from him.
Here is my assessment:
1) he cannot create new content only poorly repackage content provided by others
2) he hires other people to manage social media
3) he has brought in great talent with Max & Friends and this talent I want to keep.
4) he cannot produce a website
Here are some changes that are going on:
1) Social Media is being moved to Adam Earnest & Team
2) Website is being moved to me + cass + Adam
3) Max is producing and marketing BitShares.tv
4) I am starting a blog to talk about things and set vision/goals/etc.
5) Agent86 is producing more technical papers / educational material
Brian's primary strength has been organizing our presence at conferences and getting us interviews there.
The challenge that Brian faces is that he found other people to do his work. He hasn't produced news articles, nor driven media to our website. He hasn't gotten press in or communicated our idea.
The nullstreet crowd is busy showing Brian what he should have been doing/organizing this whole time.
Brian is in sales but he doesn't know what to sell nor what BitShares is. Every time we talk he asks me "what is BitShares?" in an attempt to get me to explain it for the Nth time.
Something has to change. Brian needs to bring measurable results to the table. We will figure this out this week.
I just want everyone to know that I share your frustration.
Thanks BM so much for this post!
* I like that you are going to work on a blog. This will help us communicate your vision. This could be very helpful towards getting the libertarian community interested in bitshares!
* I'm very excited about Bitshares TV. This has a lot of potential.
* Getting more positive media articles about Bitshares in the crypto media world should be a priority! This could have a strong positive impact. We need to get more presence in the general mindset of crypto enthusiasts. Everyone knows about Ethereum, but tons of people out there have never investigated bitshares at all. That is a lot of untapped potential that we might be able to get to grow our core support base.
I think we all feel that we have overpaid for what we have gotten in terms of those conference connections, business connections, being hooked up with those marketing talents like Max. But the fact that we overpaid isnt the end of the world. After all, bitcoin grew from nothing with no marketing budget. We have the ability to pay people from the blockchain now, so we can continue to fund marketing forever. We have methodX and hpEnvy and matt608 and others from the community who are now seeing successes in their efforts.
^ This.
Also, everyone please bear in mind that agreements already made with Brian Page are effectively a sunk cost. Complaining about them will not make them go away, and destructive criticism can only reduce the return on that cost, if it has any impact at all. The only logical response in my opinion is to give him the benefit of the doubt and support him with constructive criticism, advice, and at least any assistance that does not hinder other efforts. I honestly believe that Brian wants to help make BitShares more successful, but even if you believe he doesn't, attacks against him accomplish nothing.
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Also, everyone please bear in mind that agreements already made with Brian Page are effectively a sunk cost.
Yes, this is important.
The other important thing to remember is that bitshares can still be very successful even if the value we get out of this sunk cost ends up being zero, because there are now a number of initiatives that are in progress, and some of them will likely succeed.
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I feel that if bitshares had the ethereum marketing team instead, we wouldve surpassed bitcoin already.
Ethereum is the perfect case against the philosophy that we need to have a stable product before we can market....not true!
That's not necessarily fair, though I certainly think there's some legitimacy to it.
Short term, full marketing from the beginning certainly yields more impressive results. But how do we know Ethereum won't burn out? What if their audience gets a bad first impression, tires of it, and is no longer receptive when the full product arrives?
It's not so easy to say what approach will yield the best longterm results. I certainly think we'd benefit from more marketing now, but probably not so much from mainstream marketing yet.
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It's not so easy to say what approach will yield the best longterm results. I certainly think we'd benefit from more marketing now, but probably not so much from mainstream marketing yet.
Right now is the time to market to people who are already interested in crypto, and are tech savvy. Grow the core, early adopter, support base.
This can be done without a 1.0 release product.
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It's not so easy to say what approach will yield the best longterm results. I certainly think we'd benefit from more marketing now, but probably not so much from mainstream marketing yet.
Right now is the time to market to people who are already interested in crypto, and are tech savvy. Grow the core, early adopter, support base.
This can be done without a 1.0 release product.
I used to chant that this was a necessity, but then we started to hear about the magic marketing machine in the pipeline which would be able to leapfrog these people to a new untapped market.
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It is critical that we have enough early adopters to help out when mass adoption begins.
+5% This right here. It's essential we have more early adopters if we ever hope to cross the chasm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Chasm).
Agreed, we could have been having marketing focused at getting more core early adopters, during this time before 1.0 released.
I frequently see things like press releases from CoinTelegraph (on CMC), which discuss some positive development in another coin. Or even fricking bitReserve! And I think: We already have something better than that! Why does not one report on anything about bitshares? Why does no one seem to care?
I'd rather focus on positive things now, such as: Everyone who has not yet done so, NEEDS to go vote for matt608's argentina marketing delegate. I am certain that the value per dollar spent on his campaign will be much greater than the official marketing.
I'm still waiting for a stable update wallet though Dacunlimited so I can vote for matt608 (and Methodx). 4.25 was a mess.
The v0.4.26 at bitshares.org may still be a little buggy, but I have found it good enough for voting.
Thanks. Does anyone have a link for 4.26? It is not on Dacsunlimited site yet.
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I used to chant that this was a necessity, but then we started to hear about the magic marketing machine in the pipeline which would be able to leapfrog these people to a new untapped market.
Yeah. I think we've all realized this by now.
Nothing is going to magically happen, no amazing marketing campaign is going to materialize into existence and save us.
If we want bitshares to succeed, the community must make it happen.
The good news is: progress on this has already begun. We just need to do what we can to support it.
And vote for matt608's delegate, and every nullstreet delegate than MethodX creates. :)
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It is critical that we have enough early adopters to help out when mass adoption begins.
+5% This right here. It's essential we have more early adopters if we ever hope to cross the chasm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Chasm).
Agreed, we could have been having marketing focused at getting more core early adopters, during this time before 1.0 released.
I frequently see things like press releases from CoinTelegraph (on CMC), which discuss some positive development in another coin. Or even fricking bitReserve! And I think: We already have something better than that! Why does not one report on anything about bitshares? Why does no one seem to care?
I'd rather focus on positive things now, such as: Everyone who has not yet done so, NEEDS to go vote for matt608's argentina marketing delegate. I am certain that the value per dollar spent on his campaign will be much greater than the official marketing.
I'm still waiting for a stable update wallet though Dacunlimited so I can vote for matt608 (and Methodx). 4.25 was a mess.
The v0.4.26 at bitshares.org may still be a little buggy, but I have found it good enough for voting.
Thanks. Does anyone have a link for 4.26? It is not on Dacsunlimited site yet.
http://bitshares.org/downloads/
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BP is here in Blacksburg this week and we need to identify what we want from him.
Here is my assessment:
1) he cannot create new content only poorly repackage content provided by others
2) he hires other people to manage social media
3) he has brought in great talent with Max & Friends and this talent I want to keep.
4) he cannot produce a website
Here are some changes that are going on:
1) Social Media is being moved to Adam Earnest & Team
2) Website is being moved to me + cass + Adam
3) Max is producing and marketing BitShares.tv
4) I am starting a blog to talk about things and set vision/goals/etc.
5) Agent86 is producing more technical papers / educational material
Brian's primary strength has been organizing our presence at conferences and getting us interviews there.
The challenge that Brian faces is that he found other people to do his work. He hasn't produced news articles, nor driven media to our website. He hasn't gotten press in or communicated our idea.
The nullstreet crowd is busy showing Brian what he should have been doing/organizing this whole time.
Brian is in sales but he doesn't know what to sell nor what BitShares is. Every time we talk he asks me "what is BitShares?" in an attempt to get me to explain it for the Nth time.
Something has to change. Brian needs to bring measurable results to the table. We will figure this out this week.
I just want everyone to know that I share your frustration.
Thanks BM so much for this post!
* I like that you are going to work on a blog. This will help us communicate your vision. This could be very helpful towards getting the libertarian community interested in bitshares!
* I'm very excited about Bitshares TV. This has a lot of potential.
* Getting more positive media articles about Bitshares in the crypto media world should be a priority! This could have a strong positive impact. We need to get more presence in the general mindset of crypto enthusiasts. Everyone knows about Ethereum, but tons of people out there have never investigated bitshares at all. That is a lot of untapped potential that we might be able to get to grow our core support base.
I think we all feel that we have overpaid for what we have gotten in terms of those conference connections, business connections, being hooked up with those marketing talents like Max. But the fact that we overpaid isnt the end of the world. After all, bitcoin grew from nothing with no marketing budget. We have the ability to pay people from the blockchain now, so we can continue to fund marketing forever. We have methodX and hpEnvy and matt608 and others from the community who are now seeing successes in their efforts.
This bytemaster post does not exist, apparently it was deleted.
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Just noticed that. Very sneaky
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Not sure why BM deleted his post, but I will delete my quote of it. There could be reasons why it is better this way?
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Also, everyone please bear in mind that agreements already made with Brian Page are effectively a sunk cost.
Yes, this is important.
The other important thing to remember is that bitshares can still be very successful even if the value we get out of this sunk cost ends up being zero, because there are now a number of initiatives that are in progress, and some of them will likely succeed.
I'd like to see Nullstreet given a decent marketing budget and incentives. Personally, I'd also like to retain the services of MethodX and he would be my choice for Western marketing director.
This could be done with a 50% re-allocation of the resources that were given to Brian to do the job, but getting 10, 100% paid delegates would be a tougher ask. There's also the psychological problem that a few people will be busting their arse to get BitShares Western marketing to the level it should be, but it will be the person who was ineffective at their job that will reap the big bonuses for the community marketing team's and a few key people's hard work.
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4) I am starting a blog to talk about things and set vision/goals/etc.
I started the BitShares Blog (http://bitsharesblog.com/) at http://bitsharesblog.com/ a few weeks ago to track happenings around the network. You are more then welcome to use it in conjunction with me or if you preferred I could take a backseat to your authorship altogether. Most likely you had something else in mind, but I could not resist the opportunity to plug the site.
Thanks to cass for his help with the logo.
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I agree with the community.
I will be starting more efforts on promoting Bitshares.
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BP is here in Blacksburg this week and we need to identify what we want from him.
Here is my assessment:
1) he cannot create new content only poorly repackage content provided by others
2) he hires other people to manage social media
3) he has brought in great talent with Max & Friends and this talent I want to keep.
4) he cannot produce a website
Here are some changes that are going on:
1) Social Media is being moved to Adam Earnest & Team
2) Website is being moved to me + cass + Adam
3) Max is producing and marketing BitShares.tv
4) I am starting a blog to talk about things and set vision/goals/etc.
5) Agent86 is producing more technical papers / educational material
Brian's primary strength has been organizing our presence at conferences and getting us interviews there.
The challenge that Brian faces is that he found other people to do his work. He hasn't produced news articles, nor driven media to our website. He hasn't gotten press in or communicated our idea.
The nullstreet crowd is busy showing Brian what he should have been doing/organizing this whole time.
Brian is in sales but he doesn't know what to sell nor what BitShares is. Every time we talk he asks me "what is BitShares?" in an attempt to get me to explain it for the Nth time.
Something has to change. Brian needs to bring measurable results to the table. We will figure this out this week.
I just want everyone to know that I share your frustration.
Thanks BM so much for this post!
* I like that you are going to work on a blog. This will help us communicate your vision. This could be very helpful towards getting the libertarian community interested in bitshares!
* I'm very excited about Bitshares TV. This has a lot of potential.
* Getting more positive media articles about Bitshares in the crypto media world should be a priority! This could have a strong positive impact. We need to get more presence in the general mindset of crypto enthusiasts. Everyone knows about Ethereum, but tons of people out there have never investigated bitshares at all. That is a lot of untapped potential that we might be able to get to grow our core support base.
I think we all feel that we have overpaid for what we have gotten in terms of those conference connections, business connections, being hooked up with those marketing talents like Max. But the fact that we overpaid isnt the end of the world. After all, bitcoin grew from nothing with no marketing budget. We have the ability to pay people from the blockchain now, so we can continue to fund marketing forever. We have methodX and hpEnvy and matt608 and others from the community who are now seeing successes in their efforts.
^ This.
Also, everyone please bear in mind that agreements already made with Brian Page are effectively a sunk cost. Complaining about them will not make them go away, and destructive criticism can only reduce the return on that cost, if it has any impact at all. The only logical response in my opinion is to give him the benefit of the doubt and support him with constructive criticism, advice, and at least any assistance that does not hinder other efforts. I honestly believe that Brian wants to help make BitShares more successful, but even if you believe he doesn't, attacks against him accomplish nothing.
Thank you thank you thank you.
At least we can all step back and see a problem and now work constructively as a group to find solutions.
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Sunk cost is one perspective...
Why not consider this as investment into the steep learning curve - which is impossible without mistakes/trial&error? The more often we are able to learn from mistakes - the more competitive we become! Please note that the benefit of hindsight is a common reaction bias to previous inherently risky decisions...
- if BM learned anything useful about how marketers/non-tech folks think
- if this all triggered community mobilization
- if there is no misuse/bad intent ongoing
- given this clearing up before 1.0 launch
=> there is no need for regrets ☺
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With the 0.4.26 update, my client synced in just a few seconds. I was then able to successfully vote for MethodX, Cass, Matt608, BM and Stan Payroll, among others. Very happy to be able to do this.
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Hey everyone,
Just wanted to check in.
A few thoughts.
1. Thank you for the kind words in this thread.
2. A huge compliment to Dan and team to create paid delegates. Last month this concept nearly tore us apart. This month we see that it is the mechanism by which we as a community never have to go through this kind of problem ever again. Not to mention the spur of activity on nullstreet and other locations that are a direct result.
3. If it were not for Brian, I would not be here, so I have tremendous appreciation to him for that gift.
4. I have a lot of faith in Brian and BM checking their egos and arriving at a solution that is good for bitshares and the community when they are face to face this week.
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If when the 1.0 release happens, Brian/official team come out with good things, and we get some effective marketing, then I'm fully willing to state that we were wrong, and we just needed to be patient, and that Brian was 100% worth it.
If it doesnt happen, we move forward having learned lessons.
Also, BM gave marketing money to two groups: the official english marketing but also the chinese marketing team! One of those has worked out very well so far. ;)
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BP is here in Blacksburg this week and we need to identify what we want from him.
Here is my assessment:
1) he cannot create new content only poorly repackage content provided by others
2) he hires other people to manage social media
3) he has brought in great talent with Max & Friends and this talent I want to keep.
4) he cannot produce a website
Here are some changes that are going on:
1) Social Media is being moved to Adam Earnest & Team
2) Website is being moved to me + cass + Adam
3) Max is producing and marketing BitShares.tv
4) I am starting a blog to talk about things and set vision/goals/etc.
5) Agent86 is producing more technical papers / educational material
Brian's primary strength has been organizing our presence at conferences and getting us interviews there.
The challenge that Brian faces is that he found other people to do his work. He hasn't produced news articles, nor driven media to our website. He hasn't gotten press in or communicated our idea.
The nullstreet crowd is busy showing Brian what he should have been doing/organizing this whole time.
Brian is in sales but he doesn't know what to sell nor what BitShares is. Every time we talk he asks me "what is BitShares?" in an attempt to get me to explain it for the Nth time.
Something has to change. Brian needs to bring measurable results to the table. We will figure this out this week.
I just want everyone to know that I share your frustration.
I am assuming retaining Brian means paying him more?
You are in a much better position to make the call, but I would just take it as a sunk cost and move on, and not spend another penny on him. I would rather all those passionate about the work here to get any funds. Let Brian work on his own if he wants, after all he hold now 0.2% of the total supply, and if the community feels his efforts are worth it he or his associates can get voted in as paid delegates. No need to fund them anymore.
Seeing Bitreserve with their videos and their articles in a major BTC magazine really opened my eyes as to how far we have fallen behind.
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If when the 1.0 release happens, Brian/official team come out with good things, and we get some effective marketing, then I'm fully willing to state that we were wrong, and we just needed to be patient, and that Brian was 100% worth it.
If that happens they can then apply and get voted in as paid delegates. If BM is still funding them I hope he stops it, and/or redirects it to other areas.
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Seeing Bitreserve with their videos and their articles in a major BTC magazine really opened my eyes as to how far we have fallen behind.
Bitreserve with their inferior solution is riding on the BTC network. For so many crypto-nerds, it doesn't matter how great or crap the solution it, as long as it is somehow based on the Bitcoin blockchain !
People need to explain that Bitsreserve is nothing more than fiat accounts with low friction when transferring in and out of BTC. It doesn't even help BTC in the longterm in regards to market cap. They remove equity out of crypt to achieve their functionality AFAIK. Yet because it is on the BTC blockchain, it has every BTC geek's blessing.
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I seriously don't know what you guys are complaining about. Nothing can be marketed until version 187.5.1 comes out in Q4 2035. I can't tell you what that push is or what strategy we are using because someone else might steal the ideas and run with it in the meantime. All I can tell you is we are planning to coincide our marketing push along with the first manned mission to Mars and we will launch BitMARS at the same time. BitMARS will be a decentralized cryptoPlanet. Kind of like a real planet, but on a blockchain. The first of its kind. Buying BitMARS will give you ownership rights to a piece of property on Mars. How will this work? Well, as long as most of the then 10 billion people on earth buy it, majority consensus will override any government action to take it from them/us. It will be traded through BitReserves platform because in all reality, they will have a bigger network and marketing effect than Bitshares as we await the release of their first product BitOiL, scheduled for release in 2030. How dumb of BitReserve to market something before they even have a product?
And that new Star Wars movie must be completely finished and ready to go since they already started marketing it. Right? Maybe it's not done and Disney doesn't know what the F*** they are doing. How dare they market something that won't be released until Q4 2015?
U forgot ur signature the great "B".
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Any reason Methodx and Brian can't have a pow wow and compare notes so Methodx can fill in any gaps in Brian's marketing strategy?
Brian says to Methodx "I'm doing X,Y,Z".
Methodx says to BM "I think we need to do A,B,C"
BM and Methodx say to community "Methodx is going to do {ABC} and requires $$$ to do so. {ABC} is complimentary to {XYZ}".
Where {} are sanitized to protect whatever competitive advantages there may be.
Community says "Yay! We trust BM and Methodx. Go for it!".
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BP is here in Blacksburg this week and we need to identify what we want from him.
Here is my assessment:
1) he cannot create new content only poorly repackage content provided by others
2) he hires other people to manage social media
3) he has brought in great talent with Max & Friends and this talent I want to keep.
4) he cannot produce a website
Here are some changes that are going on:
1) Social Media is being moved to Adam Earnest & Team
2) Website is being moved to me + cass + Adam
3) Max is producing and marketing BitShares.tv
4) I am starting a blog to talk about things and set vision/goals/etc.
5) Agent86 is producing more technical papers / educational material
Brian's primary strength has been organizing our presence at conferences and getting us interviews there.
The challenge that Brian faces is that he found other people to do his work. He hasn't produced news articles, nor driven media to our website. He hasn't gotten press in or communicated our idea.
The nullstreet crowd is busy showing Brian what he should have been doing/organizing this whole time.
Brian is in sales but he doesn't know what to sell nor what BitShares is. Every time we talk he asks me "what is BitShares?" in an attempt to get me to explain it for the Nth time.
Something has to change. Brian needs to bring measurable results to the table. We will figure this out this week.
I just want everyone to know that I share your frustration.
The source of my frustration has never been so much that he wasn't doing anything (at least for a long time it wasn't). What concerned me was his lack of outreach to investors. The willingness of yourself, and Invictus in general, to be candid and open with the community was one of the largest selling points to me and gave me a level of trust that is rare for any crypto project to deserve. In fact it drove me to want to help our community grow even more.
I feel like Brian has ignored this philosophy to his own peril. Though I agree with bitmarket that we should be thankful for Brian helping find him, I didn't even know Brian found him until just a few weeks ago though! This fundamental lack of communication from him is severely detrimental to people's perception of his value to the community...and it isn't like he doesn't have ample opportunity and resources through which to communicate!
Now with that said, I have nothing against Brian personally, but I can't defend him against the community's frustration because in my mind he should have seen this coming from a mile away. The fact that he didn't makes me worry that he either A) he doesn't understand people (bad for marketing) or B) He doesnt care.
It is hard to fault BM and the team though because they largely really seem like they are very trustworthy...and perhaps because they are so trustworthy they themselves project their own trustworthiness onto others when it is not exactly deserved.
I would like to use this opportunity, however, to appeal to people to drop the pitchforks and consider the message of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmyZMtPVodo
My takeaway: "Charlie Kim of a company called "Next Jump"...he makes the point that, if you had hard times in your family, would you ever consider laying off one of your children?.. We would never do it--then why do we consider laying off people inside our organization? Charlie implemented a policy in his organization of lifetime employment. If you get a job at Next Jump, you cannot get fired for performance issues. In fact, if you have issues, they will Coach you and give you support. Just like we would do with one of our children who comes home with a C from school."
I personally have had to learn a great deal in my experiences in this community...and I am glad to have learned these lessons. You have all become a second family to me. And that includes Brian. I just feel like Brian does not want to be part of the family. Maybe I will try again to reach out to him...because I don't want Brian hurt. I don't want him to not be trusted. I want to believe that we can show him how to best lead us...and I want to believe he will listen. Please consider watching the video above if you have not already. I think there is a great deal to be appreciated in its message--and a reminder that this can be an opportunity for all of us to strengthen our community and Brian's role in it as opposed to pushing him away out of fear. Trust me, I am one of the first who should heed this lesson so I only ask it of others because it seemed to help me so much the last time I was upset with Brian.
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Any reason Methodx and Brian can't have a pow wow and compare notes so Methodx can fill in any gaps in Brian's marketing strategy?
Brian says to Methodx "I'm doing X,Y,Z".
Methodx says to BM "I think we need to do A,B,C"
BM and Methodx say to community "Methodx is going to do {ABC} and requires $$$ to do so. {ABC} is complimentary to {XYZ}".
Where {} are sanitized to protect whatever competitive advantages there may be.
Community says "Yay! We trust BM and Methodx. Go for it!".
We've kind of done this already. Also, please keep in mind I spent over 80 hours the week before last planning and strategizing, working on projects and co-ordinating marketing efforts with core team members. I need to start focusing on my real business that makes me actual money... Even if I'm obviously in love with bitshares, reality is starting to set in. There might be a fix in the works that'll get me paid though, so stay tuned.
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Also, Brian has to be planning something.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it take a giant set to be willing to walk away with a bunch of AGS funds and not say two words about it after revealing your real life identity? I realize the funds were a donation, but there's going to be people who feel some accountability is owed to them in spite of that (I'm not one of them).
Either he's secretly Terminator, sent from the future to destroy the BTS network before it starts, or he's planning something. Note the nonchalance in Dan's response, "I'll let him know to manage his own PR." (or whatever it was he said)
dan just shrugged and yawned, and we're talking about six figures that he paid him (if memory serves).
i stand firm by my wait and see stance on this.
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Interview requests are starting to roll in from Nullstreet initiatives. All requests have been passed on to marketing.
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Interview requests are starting to roll in from Nullstreet initiatives. All requests have been passed on to marketing.
awesome work hpenvy. thanks for letting everyone know.
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Note the nonchalance in Dan's response, "I'll let him know to manage his own PR." (or whatever it was he said)
dan just shrugged and yawned, and we're talking about six figures that he paid him (if memory serves).
*cough cough*
BP is here in Blacksburg this week and we need to identify what we want from him.
Here is my assessment:
1) he cannot create new content only poorly repackage content provided by others
2) he hires other people to manage social media
3) he has brought in great talent with Max & Friends and this talent I want to keep.
4) he cannot produce a website
Here are some changes that are going on:
1) Social Media is being moved to Adam Earnest & Team
2) Website is being moved to me + cass + Adam
3) Max is producing and marketing BitShares.tv
4) I am starting a blog to talk about things and set vision/goals/etc.
5) Agent86 is producing more technical papers / educational material
Brian's primary strength has been organizing our presence at conferences and getting us interviews there.
The challenge that Brian faces is that he found other people to do his work. He hasn't produced news articles, nor driven media to our website. He hasn't gotten press in or communicated our idea.
The nullstreet crowd is busy showing Brian what he should have been doing/organizing this whole time.
Brian is in sales but he doesn't know what to sell nor what BitShares is. Every time we talk he asks me "what is BitShares?" in an attempt to get me to explain it for the Nth time.
Something has to change. Brian needs to bring measurable results to the table. We will figure this out this week.
I just want everyone to know that I share your frustration.
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sumantso, thank you for pointing that out.
i'll take a second look at my opinion on this.
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I seriously don't know what you guys are complaining about. Nothing can be marketed until version 187.5.1 comes out in Q4 2035. I can't tell you what that push is or what strategy we are using because someone else might steal the ideas and run with it in the meantime. All I can tell you is we are planning to coincide our marketing push along with the first manned mission to Mars and we will launch BitMARS at the same time. BitMARS will be a decentralized cryptoPlanet. Kind of like a real planet, but on a blockchain. The first of its kind. Buying BitMARS will give you ownership rights to a piece of property on Mars. How will this work? Well, as long as most of the then 10 billion people on earth buy it, majority consensus will override any government action to take it from them/us. It will be traded through BitReserves platform because in all reality, they will have a bigger network and marketing effect than Bitshares as we await the release of their first product BitOiL, scheduled for release in 2030. How dumb of BitReserve to market something before they even have a product?
And that new Star Wars movie must be completely finished and ready to go since they already started marketing it. Right? Maybe it's not done and Disney doesn't know what the F*** they are doing. How dare they market something that won't be released until Q4 2015?
U forgot ur signature the great "B".
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't get it.
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sumantso, thank you for pointing that out.
i'll take a second look at my opinion on this.
BM deleted that post is why you probably missed it. And then people who quoted are starting to delete it out of their posts.
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Any reason Methodx and Brian can't have a pow wow and compare notes so Methodx can fill in any gaps in Brian's marketing strategy?
Brian says to Methodx "I'm doing X,Y,Z".
Methodx says to BM "I think we need to do A,B,C"
BM and Methodx say to community "Methodx is going to do {ABC} and requires $$$ to do so. {ABC} is complimentary to {XYZ}".
Where {} are sanitized to protect whatever competitive advantages there may be.
Community says "Yay! We trust BM and Methodx. Go for it!".
We've kind of done this already. Also, please keep in mind I spent over 80 hours the week before last planning and strategizing, working on projects and co-ordinating marketing efforts with core team members. I need to start focusing on my real business that makes me actual money... Even if I'm obviously in love with bitshares, reality is starting to set in. There might be a fix in the works that'll get me paid though, so stay tuned.
Great news! Thank you for the update - you absolutely should get a chunk of AGS funding to execute your strategy.
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Given the recent development (Brian Page and Bitshares have parted ways), would it now be possible to hire MethodX as marketing director, or something like that?
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no more marketing directors please... I would prefer if AGS funding is used to seriously pump the hell out of BTS rather than pay a new marketing director. XRP is getting pumped with no news whatsoever and everyone is talking about beating bitcoin suddenly. That is all the marketing we need..
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Given the recent development (Brian Page and Bitshares have parted ways), would it now be possible to hire MethodX as marketing director, or something like that?
Sadly, I think the AGS funds are mostly finished. Its upto the blockchain now.
Real shame. Even if we spent that money hapazardly we could've still gotten much more visibility.
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no more marketing directors please... I would prefer if AGS funding is used to seriously pump the hell out of BTS rather than pay a new marketing director. XRP is getting pumped with no news whatsoever and everyone is talking about beating bitcoin suddenly. That is all the marketing we need..
XRP is a very different beast with their niche in banking. I don't care about the director roles, I care about funding the people that are doing the work to get things handled.
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no more marketing directors please...
Why not just call it *Marketing Delegate* instead of director... :)
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no more marketing directors please...
Why not just call it *Marketing Delegate* instead of director... :)
+1
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BM, can you give a statement regarding the recent development?
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Yes a statement about what the core-devs marketing strategy is. Usually the employer makes the announcement when a high level employee is removed and provides an accompanying statement.
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Yes a statement about what the core-devs marketing strategy is. Usually the employer makes the announcement when a high level employee is removed and provides an accompanying statement.
I can't speak for BM, but here's the push happening on Nullstreet.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=12351.msg163162#msg163162
If anything, things are ramping up quite a bit quicker than we've seen in months.