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Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: mike623317 on December 18, 2014, 02:02:54 am

Title: What's the realistic BTS potential?
Post by: mike623317 on December 18, 2014, 02:02:54 am
Just interested to know what people realistically think BTS price could achieve. $1 seems to me to be  very achievable for such a technology, probably much more.

Thanks
M
Title: Re: What's the realistic BTS potential?
Post by: islandking on December 18, 2014, 02:33:20 am
Just interested to know what people realistically think BTS price could achieve. $1 seems to me to be  very achievable for such a technology, probably much more.

Thanks
M

A trillion dollar market cap would push the price per share into the hundreds. If Bitshares delivers on what it promises a trillion dollars is possible.Most brokerage firms worth their salt manage a few trillion.

It may seem crazy but if I posted on Bitcointalk in 2009-2010 that Bitcoin would go from $0.10 to $1200 people would laugh at me. The trick is to hold on and not sell out otherwise you will end up like thise people who sold bitcoin at $1 instead of holding. In my opinion Bitshares will either change finance or it will fail, no in between.

Realistically I think $10 is acheivable. (roughly 30 billion)  I am curious on what other people think.I might be crazy but I see huge potential if Bitshares works.
Title: Re: What's the realistic BTS potential?
Post by: hpenvy on December 18, 2014, 02:39:34 am
Just interested to know what people realistically think BTS price could achieve. $1 seems to me to be  very achievable for such a technology, probably much more.

Thanks
M

A trillion dollar market cap would push the price per share into the hundreds. If Bitshares delivers on what it promises a trillion dollars is possible.Most brokerage firms worth their salt manage a few trillion.

Realistically I think $10 is acheivable. (roughly 30 billion)  I am curious on what other people think.I might be crazy but I see huge potential if Bitshares works.

If we continue to consolidate resources within NullStreet and everyone contributes a little of their talent consistently, I can see us hitting +$1 in a year or two.   Looking at Ripple's rise, I'm a believer IF everyone continues to do their part.
Title: Re: What's the realistic BTS potential?
Post by: lil_jay890 on December 18, 2014, 04:07:37 am
Just interested to know what people realistically think BTS price could achieve. $1 seems to me to be  very achievable for such a technology, probably much more.

Thanks
M

A trillion dollar market cap would push the price per share into the hundreds. If Bitshares delivers on what it promises a trillion dollars is possible.Most brokerage firms worth their salt manage a few trillion.

It may seem crazy but if I posted on Bitcointalk in 2009-2010 that Bitcoin would go from $0.10 to $1200 people would laugh at me. The trick is to hold on and not sell out otherwise you will end up like thise people who sold bitcoin at $1 instead of holding. In my opinion Bitshares will either change finance or it will fail, no in between.

Realistically I think $10 is acheivable. (roughly 30 billion)  I am curious on what other people think.I might be crazy but I see huge potential if Bitshares works.

I don't think bitshares succeeding is black and white, either we take over the world or fail thing.  We will most likely end up somewhere in between.  There is a lot of money sloshing around and many crypto projects are going to have mkt caps over 100bil in the next 10 years.  BTS at 1.50/share next year wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities, we just need money to continue flowing into ripple and other 2.0 currencies.  The bear market in crypto is ending based by the positive divergences in some alt coins.  This is a classic trading strategy when trading.  For example oil may be falling and falling, but once you see oil service names start rising even when oil is falling you know a bottom is coming.  A canary in the coal mine sort of speak.  Crypto is the coal mine and ripple is the canary.  Hopefully bitshares follows.
Title: Re: What's the realistic BTS potential?
Post by: D4vegee on December 18, 2014, 04:32:01 pm
Just interested to know what people realistically think BTS price could achieve. $1 seems to me to be  very achievable for such a technology, probably much more.

Thanks
M

A trillion dollar market cap would push the price per share into the hundreds. If Bitshares delivers on what it promises a trillion dollars is possible.Most brokerage firms worth their salt manage a few trillion.

It may seem crazy but if I posted on Bitcointalk in 2009-2010 that Bitcoin would go from $0.10 to $1200 people would laugh at me. The trick is to hold on and not sell out otherwise you will end up like thise people who sold bitcoin at $1 instead of holding. In my opinion Bitshares will either change finance or it will fail, no in between.

Realistically I think $10 is acheivable. (roughly 30 billion)  I am curious on what other people think.I might be crazy but I see huge potential if Bitshares works.

I don't think bitshares succeeding is black and white, either we take over the world or fail thing.  We will most likely end up somewhere in between.  There is a lot of money sloshing around and many crypto projects are going to have mkt caps over 100bil in the next 10 years.  BTS at 1.50/share next year wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities, we just need money to continue flowing into ripple and other 2.0 currencies.  The bear market in crypto is ending based by the positive divergences in some alt coins.  This is a classic trading strategy when trading.  For example oil may be falling and falling, but once you see oil service names start rising even when oil is falling you know a bottom is coming.  A canary in the coal mine sort of speak.  Crypto is the coal mine and ripple is the canary.  Hopefully bitshares follows.

 +5% +5%
Title: Re: What's the realistic BTS potential?
Post by: Ander on December 22, 2014, 11:09:16 pm
500 Knives.  8)
Title: Re: What's the realistic BTS potential?
Post by: CLains on December 23, 2014, 01:22:38 am
If we reach a market cap 10x what we have now, each fully paid delegate will be earning 30 000$ a month. That means we can have potentially 100 teams of people all around the world working on developing, designing and promoting BitShares.
Title: Re: What's the realistic BTS potential?
Post by: hadrian on December 23, 2014, 06:33:55 pm
500 Knives.  8)

properly properly

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11009.msg144990#msg144990 (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11009.msg144990#msg144990)
Title: Re: What's the realistic BTS potential?
Post by: donkeypong on December 23, 2014, 08:01:49 pm
If we reach a market cap 10x what we have now, each fully paid delegate will be earning 30 000$ a month. That means we can have potentially 100 teams of people all around the world working on developing, designing and promoting BitShares.

If we can hit a critical mass like this (it could even be less) and sustain it for awhile, then this thing is "game over". Continued growth will be inevitable and no one else will be able to compete.
Title: Re: What's the realistic BTS potential?
Post by: mdj on December 23, 2014, 09:18:51 pm
If we reach a market cap 10x what we have now, each fully paid delegate will be earning 30 000$ a month. That means we can have potentially 100 teams of people all around the world working on developing, designing and promoting BitShares.

If we can hit a critical mass like this (it could even be less) and sustain it for awhile, then this thing is "game over". Continued growth will be inevitable and no one else will be able to compete.

But couldn't we have more paid delegates at this point in time anyway? A team could just be several of them - a bit like how the main developers are votes in right now anyway
Title: Re: What's the realistic BTS potential?
Post by: mike623317 on December 24, 2014, 05:51:32 pm
If we reach a market cap 10x what we have now, each fully paid delegate will be earning 30 000$ a month. That means we can have potentially 100 teams of people all around the world working on developing, designing and promoting BitShares.

If we can hit a critical mass like this (it could even be less) and sustain it for awhile, then this thing is "game over". Continued growth will be inevitable and no one else will be able to compete.

I think that critical mass is the key. I just read the book on Amazon and it just sums up the concept beautifully. Once the word is out there and we have some on/off ramps i just cant imagine why you wouldnt want bitassets.

M
Title: Re: What's the realistic BTS potential?
Post by: merockstar on December 24, 2014, 08:22:23 pm
Just interested to know what people realistically think BTS price could achieve. $1 seems to me to be  very achievable for such a technology, probably much more.

Thanks
M

A trillion dollar market cap would push the price per share into the hundreds. If Bitshares delivers on what it promises a trillion dollars is possible.Most brokerage firms worth their salt manage a few trillion.

Realistically I think $10 is acheivable. (roughly 30 billion)  I am curious on what other people think.I might be crazy but I see huge potential if Bitshares works.

If we continue to consolidate resources within NullStreet and everyone contributes a little of their talent consistently, I can see us hitting +$1 in a year or two.   Looking at Ripple's rise, I'm a believer IF everyone continues to do their part.

guilty :(
Title: Re: What's the realistic BTS potential?
Post by: nz on January 01, 2015, 04:51:41 pm
It seems tome that we're getting close to the 1.0 and then some polishing. The marketing efforts are ramping up and some exchanges are reaching out to us. Still need to put in a lot of hard work though as i thin we need to be as polished as ripple (all their stuff looks sharp imo).

I have no idea what the real potential is, but if LTC can reach $50 it just doesnt seem right to me that BTS should be valued less when it does so much more. Imean where else can you save in gold and earn interest on it? You need to believe LTC will have value in the future, i would rather have a bitasset that pegged to something - gold, silver, usd or something else.

After all that, i guess we will just have to wait and see.
Title: Re: What's the realistic BTS potential?
Post by: mike623317 on January 08, 2015, 05:47:12 am
It seems tome that we're getting close to the 1.0 and then some polishing. The marketing efforts are ramping up and some exchanges are reaching out to us. Still need to put in a lot of hard work though as i thin we need to be as polished as ripple (all their stuff looks sharp imo).

I have no idea what the real potential is, but if LTC can reach $50 it just doesnt seem right to me that BTS should be valued less when it does so much more. Imean where else can you save in gold and earn interest on it? You need to believe LTC will have value in the future, i would rather have a bitasset that pegged to something - gold, silver, usd or something else.

After all that, i guess we will just have to wait and see.

Temper your expectations IMO. If we got to the size of bitcoin, 40 billion, that would put us about a $15. I would be really happy if we could reach 10 billion market cap. Got to get to 1bn first  :o
Title: Re: What's the realistic BTS potential?
Post by: starspirit on January 08, 2015, 07:41:41 am
I'm possibly jumping way outside the current vision, but here's what's playing in my head.

Currently BTS only derives yield from the facilitation of movements (transactions) in its own ownership ledger (of which bitAssets are a useful derivative). Though this provides a critical transaction facilitation platform for BitShares, I can't help but think this must be a limited income stream because users will always seek to minimise transaction costs. In my view, defining this as the business rather than a tool of the business also does not allow Bitshares to take on the far greater functionality that other businesses engage in, where the real value (and profit) is in the mobilisation of factors of production and the transformation of resources that transactions facilitate. This value-added activity always requires a level of human trust, judgment and intervention.

If such flexibility were designed in however, combined with the employment of advanced technological tools toward superior resource allocation, profit and incentive models, BitShares could become the ecosystem for globally decentralised business, with BTS ultimately developing as its core money (and bit-currencies as a stepping stone).

With this potentiality in mind, certain things would therefore trigger me to substantially increase my current evaluation of BitShares. For example:

1) developing concrete plans for complementary income streams that are less capital intensive than bitAssets
2) developing the toolkit for globally decentralised business, including the integrated use of multiple block-chains, security tools, reputation systems, and capital management systems, thereby facilitating the full functionality of industry
3) employing these tools in the development of business lines to dominate and replace traditional businesses such as banking and insurance
4) making use of a wider group of professionals and strategic partners (beyond coding and marketing, such as financial) to maximise future strategic opportunities

Wild thoughts.
Title: Re: What's the realistic BTS potential?
Post by: mira on January 08, 2015, 07:52:02 am
I'm possibly jumping way outside the current vision, but here's what's playing in my head.

I appreciate your vision-jumping and enjoy your posts, even when I (often) don't fully comprehend them.  I wish I could read the TL,DR version of what you envision above!

I'm currently just trying to expand my understanding of the potential of user issued assets...
Title: Re: What's the realistic BTS potential?
Post by: santaclause102 on January 08, 2015, 11:01:44 am
I'm possibly jumping way outside the current vision, but here's what's playing in my head.

Currently BTS only derives yield from the facilitation of movements (transactions) in its own ownership ledger (of which bitAssets are a useful derivative). Though this provides a critical transaction facilitation platform for BitShares, I can't help but think this must be a limited income stream because users will always seek to minimise transaction costs. In my view, defining this as the business rather than a tool of the business also does not allow Bitshares to take on the far greater functionality that other businesses engage in, where the real value (and profit) is in the mobilisation of factors of production and the transformation of resources that transactions facilitate. This value-added activity always requires a level of human trust, judgment and intervention.

If such flexibility were designed in however, combined with the employment of advanced technological tools toward superior resource allocation, profit and incentive models, BitShares could become the ecosystem for globally decentralised business, with BTS ultimately developing as its core money (and bit-currencies as a stepping stone).

With this potentiality in mind, certain things would therefore trigger me to substantially increase my current evaluation of BitShares. For example:

1) developing concrete plans for complementary income streams that are less capital intensive than bitAssets
2) developing the toolkit for globally decentralised business, including the integrated use of multiple block-chains, security tools, reputation systems, and capital management systems, thereby facilitating the full functionality of industry
3) employing these tools in the development of business lines to dominate and replace traditional businesses such as banking and insurance
4) making use of a wider group of professionals and strategic partners (beyond coding and marketing, such as financial) to maximise future strategic opportunities

Wild thoughts.
I don't think that is entirely unrealistic at all! I am relatively certain that something along these lines will happen. The only obstacles I see are: legal/regulatory, marketing, the efficiency of voting people in/out (voter apathy), competitors. All of these obstacles do not look like they would be impossible to overcome at the moment.

What do YOU think are the biggest obstacles?

Quote
Currently BTS only derives yield from the facilitation of movements (transactions) in its own ownership ledger (of which bitAssets are a useful derivative). Though this provides a critical transaction facilitation platform for BitShares, I can't help but think this must be a limited income stream because users will always seek to minimise transaction costs.
This is not what BTS gets its main value from at the moment. The main value proposition of BTS is that it requires something between 1.5 and 3 times the value of BTS for every BitAsset in existence.

Title: Re: What's the realistic BTS potential?
Post by: yankey on January 21, 2015, 12:57:57 pm
Some indication of what a BITKES would replace :

http://www.thinkm-pesa.com/2013/11/10-latest-m-pesa-statistics.html

http://asokoinsight.com/news/kenyans-move-12-7-billion-mobile-phones-6-months/
Title: Re: What's the realistic BTS potential?
Post by: oldman on January 21, 2015, 04:59:08 pm
Lots has been said on this topic.

Personally I believe Bitshares will become the first trillion-dollar crypto, but I'm slightly biased. ;)

Bitshares has the potential to completely reboot global finance (bitAssets) and politics (Vote). Sounds grand, but is real.

The recent announcement of Google's billion-dollar investment in Musk's satellite internet program is the harbinger of a perfect storm.

Bitshares + Global Internet + Cheap Smartphones = Revolution.

Just for a little circlejerking I'm saying $1-$5/BTS in the next 2 years/by 2017...



Title: Re: What's the realistic BTS potential?
Post by: mdj on January 22, 2015, 11:10:24 pm
Lots has been said on this topic.

Personally I believe Bitshares will become the first trillion-dollar crypto, but I'm slightly biased. ;)

Bitshares has the potential to completely reboot global finance (bitAssets) and politics (Vote). Sounds grand, but is real.

The recent announcement of Google's billion-dollar investment in Musk's satellite internet program is the harbinger of a perfect storm.

Bitshares + Global Internet + Cheap Smartphones = Revolution.

Just for a little circlejerking I'm saying $1-$5/BTS in the next 2 years/by 2017...

You must think Bitcoin and other cryptos are going to boom over the next 2? I think it'll be a while before Bitshares is able to detach itself from the crypto enthusiasts economy.
Title: Re: What's the realistic BTS potential?
Post by: bitAndy on January 23, 2015, 04:53:08 am
We just need one good surge that doesn't get dumped - like what Ripple had. The more money we have faster delegates will be able to improve the network, and then I don't think they'll be any looking back. We're just frustratingly stuck in this $30-$50 million area, wondering why something like Litecoin has a higher market cap than us.
Title: Re: What's the realistic BTS potential?
Post by: futurist on January 23, 2015, 05:06:17 am
One thing to consider though, is that Bitshares isn't really positioning itself as an alternate currency, like other altcoins. It could provide that service, but it just isn't taking that approach right now it seems. Bitcoin, for example, is basically marketed as the new "money" of the Internet. I don't know if BTS is really seeking to compete in that space. Of course, it could turn out that it does become one of several preferred “currencies” to make transactions online. But it will take time before people understand what else Bitshares is capable of.

Now if say Bono from U2, or another well-known band, came out and said that anyone who buys into the new U2 single can share in the profits, then there would a lot of interest. Is Bitshares laying the groundwork for those opportunities? That seems quite a while down the road. And even then, something like that wouldn't necessarily elevate the valuation of BTS, correct? But the asset that is being used (the new single).

As I understand it, BTS is more of a neutral baseline from which to launch other assets. And perhaps we wouldn’t want that baseline to have a huge valuation ($100 per share, etc) because that may prevent everyday users from participating in the exchange. 

I look at something like Scottrade, which has a commission of around $7 a trade. I wonder if something like BTS can follow an online brokerage model, and essentially the 'fee' becomes the exchange rate before an asset is "purchased?" (BitUSD, etc.) Even then, it is the underlining asset that would be the investment play. So in the case of the the new single,  BitU2single, would be what investors would be interested in. Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way?
Title: Re: What's the realistic BTS potential?
Post by: oldman on January 23, 2015, 05:11:25 pm
Lots has been said on this topic.

Personally I believe Bitshares will become the first trillion-dollar crypto, but I'm slightly biased. ;)

Bitshares has the potential to completely reboot global finance (bitAssets) and politics (Vote). Sounds grand, but is real.

The recent announcement of Google's billion-dollar investment in Musk's satellite internet program is the harbinger of a perfect storm.

Bitshares + Global Internet + Cheap Smartphones = Revolution.

Just for a little circlejerking I'm saying $1-$5/BTS in the next 2 years/by 2017...

You must think Bitcoin and other cryptos are going to boom over the next 2? I think it'll be a while before Bitshares is able to detach itself from the crypto enthusiasts economy.

My personal belief is that Bitcoin is following a scripted adoption plan:

Grass Roots (Crypto-anarchists!) -> Small Biz -> Bigger Biz (basic infrastructure) -> Wall Street/Hedge Funds -> Sovereign Wealth -> Small Gov -> Big Gov -> Main Street (fiat is pushed into forced obsolescence and everyone has to use addresses linked to gov id and white coins).

Currently in the Bigger Biz -> Wall/Street Hedge Fund phase where BTC gets pumped to the $100k range, setting the stage for the big boys to move in.

I think this is playing out in parallel with the impending market collapse/debt contagion fiasco, with bitcoin as the scorched-earth option in the currency war we are witnessing.

So yes, I think over the next 2-3 years Bitcoin is going to boom like nothing has boomed in the history of humanity.

But Bitcoin is just a protocol, like http. BitShares is more like the entire internet ecosystem, but for finance and voting, with a twist - BitShares is monetized via BTS and decentralized via DPOS.

BTC and BTS will happily co-exist, but I believe BTC will exist as a small part of a much larger BTS ecosystem.
Title: Re: What's the realistic BTS potential?
Post by: oldman on January 23, 2015, 05:22:46 pm
One thing to consider though, is that Bitshares isn't really positioning itself as an alternate currency, like other altcoins. It could provide that service, but it just isn't taking that approach right now it seems. Bitcoin, for example, is basically marketed as the new "money" of the Internet. I don't know if BTS is really seeking to compete in that space. Of course, it could turn out that it does become one of several preferred “currencies” to make transactions online. But it will take time before people understand what else Bitshares is capable of.

>>> This exactly. BTC will coexist within the BitShares platform just as gold, silver, oil, fiat, etc. exist. BTS is not a competitor to BTC... but many BTS attributes/features happen to make BTS a very viable BTC successor. Acting as a currency is possible but secondary.

Now if say Bono from U2, or another well-known band, came out and said that anyone who buys into the new U2 single can share in the profits, then there would a lot of interest. Is Bitshares laying the groundwork for those opportunities? That seems quite a while down the road. And even then, something like that wouldn't necessarily elevate the valuation of BTS, correct? But the asset that is being used (the new single).

>>> Yes, this is possible with UIA or PLAY and you can expect to see many artists using the tech in the years to come.

As I understand it, BTS is more of a neutral baseline from which to launch other assets. And perhaps we wouldn’t want that baseline to have a huge valuation ($100 per share, etc) because that may prevent everyday users from participating in the exchange. 

>>> USD value of BTS is irrelevant just as for BTC. Both are divisible to a degree that purchasing even the smallest fraction of a BTC or BTS is possible.

I look at something like Scottrade, which has a commission of around $7 a trade. I wonder if something like BTS can follow an online brokerage model, and essentially the 'fee' becomes the exchange rate before an asset is "purchased?" (BitUSD, etc.) Even then, it is the underlining asset that would be the investment play. So in the case of the the new single,  BitU2single, would be what investors would be interested in. Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way?

>>> Sounds like you need to read up on PLAY. With regard to brokerages, BitShares + fiat gateway effectively renders brokerages obsolete. Folks can trade bitAssets and UIA for a few cents and hold those assets with zero counterparty risk.
Title: Re: What's the realistic BTS potential?
Post by: CLains on January 27, 2015, 06:58:21 pm
Couple of links,

BitShares Play: http://playshare.io/
BitShares Music: http://peertracks.com/