BitShares Forum

Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: cube on February 15, 2015, 10:37:15 am

Title: Bter hacked. PTS, bitassets withdrawal successful. Share you experience.
Post by: cube on February 15, 2015, 10:37:15 am
1) First started with :

(http://pts.cubeconnex.com/img/bter-suspend.jpg)

2) Bter revealed:
(http://pts.cubeconnex.com/img/bter-lost.jpg)

3) Bter announcement in weibo - http://www.weibo.com/p/1001603810634063024170:

"
经初步检查确定,2015年2月14日黑客利用我们从冷钱包填充热钱包的瞬间,将比特儿交易平台冷钱包中的所有BTC盗走,总额为7170BTC,转账记录为:
https://blockchain.info/tx/f5b0363f03e1ed8bb812c135361ea93590c831ce9f13a3750be1b93575baccc6
我们已经在2015年2月15日上午到当地派出所报案并被受理。我们将积极配合警方调查处理,追讨被盗的比特币。同时,我们在此悬赏720BTC追讨被盗的7170比特币。
 为了确保其他资金安全,我们已经采取技术措施,停止交易并关闭所有虚拟币在线钱包,去做进一步检查。于此同时,我们计划尽快安排CNY以及其他虚拟币的提取工作,减少用户担心。对用户造成的损失我们深表歉意,
截止到现在比特儿已经运营了快两年了。陪大家一起走过了比特币的风风雨雨。陪大家看多种币种的衰落兴起。请大家放心,我们不会跑路,我们将承担责任,为用户追讨被盗比特币。"

In short:
"Hackers made use of the time we were restocking our hot wallet from cold wallet. They stole all the BTC from the Bter's cold wallet."

4) How can a cold wallet be compromised? A user commented on bct:
Hacking a properly created cold wallet is impossible however it may not have been a properly created cold wallet
a) the wallet may have been created using compromised software (given how long the wallet has existed this is unlikely)
b) the randomly generated keys in the wallet may have had poor entropy (also unlikely)
c) the wallet was compromised due to poor signing with repeat k values (unlikely but can be verified from transaction history)
d) despite the company calling it a 'cold wallet' is wasn't a cold wallet* at all and was compromised just as any other hot wallet would be
e) someone (most likely an employee) with physical access to the cold wallet data file stole the coins

* A 'cold wallet' would be a private key or keys created by an offline machine and the private keys are never used on a machine that is or has been connected to the internet.  Signing of transactions should be done offline as well.  If you create a 'cold wallet' and then move it to a computer which is connected to the internet then it is no longer a cold wallet. 

5) Track the fund flow here

http://247cryptonews.com/bter-got-hacked-7000-bitcoins-stolen-7-different-accounts/

http://tracker.coinalytics.co/

6) Community discussing a deal to buy Bter

7) Bter CEO Han Lin interviewed by yang yang news agency. Interview conducted in Chinese.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XODk0MzcwNTEy.html?sharefrom=iphone

In the interview, Han Lin mentioned he is the only person holding the key to cold wallet.

During the latest telephone interview with Bter CEO Han Lin, he said that this 7000+ BTC is all of their BTC cold storage reserve, now they end up with 200 BTC in their other hot wallet atm. Also he commented the hacker has been very professional, so it's hard to trace him and reclaim the lost fund.

Right now they still have no idea what method the hacker used to hack, as a result they still suspend all altcoin wallets because they don't want to risk it.

8-) Bter has resumed operation on 21 Feb 2015. They are preparing to release CNY, USD and NXT withdrawal.

9)  From bter website:

http://cn.bter.com/article/4672

"在各方的帮助下,通过区块分析,我们已经查清盗取的部分资金流向,正在联系相关服务平台协助调查。后面的追查仍然会非常艰辛,但是我们会继续努力。我们正在与各方合作通过一切可行的途径补偿用户。即使资金无法追回,我们也会准备全额赔付的方案。我们将很快开通CNY提现。再次感谢各位的鼓励和支持。

We're tracking the hacker with the help of some platforms , it will be hard , but we'll try . We're working with multiple parties to compensate our users by any viable means . Even if we couldn't recover the funds , we'll be preparing a plan to pay back with the full amount . We'll be enabling CNY withdraw soon . Thanks again for your encourage and support . "

10) CNY and USD withdrawal enabled on Bter

Bter is tracking down the thief who used a mixer to hide his stolen coins.

From Bter -

"Please help us to get touch with the BitcoinFog (http://www.bitcoinfog.com ,http://foggeddriztrcar2.onion ) operator. Email us at: admin@mail.bter.com."
Modify message

11) Bter says:

"“bter已经卖域名,售价1万美金”为谣言。稍微思考一下就不难识别愚蠢的谣言,我们最近几天已经积极处理数百万的CNY和USD提现,提现额度降低到1元,保证所有正确填写提现信息的不超过24小时到帐,我们怎会为了1万美金(合6万CNY)出售域名,跑路?CNY提现进展顺利,我们将很快处理虚拟币提现。"

"There is a rumour saying 'bter has sold its domain name for USD10,000'. If you think about it, it is a stupid rumour. We have recently actively handled millions of CNY and USD withdrawals, with a minimum withdrawal lowered to 1 yuan. We ensure withdrawal clearance for all properly-completed forms within 24 hours. How could we sell our name for just USD10 grand and run away? CNY withdrawal has been smooth. We will handled virtual currencies soon."

Bter's announcement in English :

"We have handled a large volume of CNY and USD withdrawals and we are going to handle the altcoins in the next step."

12) NXT assets (SuperNET, etc.) withdrawal enabled

13) Bter: "我们决定与合作伙伴一起重构比特儿后台,彻底解决虚拟币钱包安全问题,重启比特儿运营,提供更多功能更好的服务,偿还用户损失。更多细节很快发布,真心感谢您的支持。"

We decided to work with our partners to rebuild the backend platform, completely resolve the wallet issue, reactivate bter operation. We would provide more features with better services, repair users' losses. More details to come. Sincerely, thank you for your support.

Bter: "We have decided to rebuild BTER's backend, completely solve the wallets security issue and re-enable all the tradings."

14) Bter: "Sorry for the long wait. We will solve the security issue completely and get all altcoins online and enable the withdrawals in a week."

15) Bter: We are deploying our new trading system with the safest ever cold wallet solution. we will finish it in 24-48 hours.

16) Bter: "患难见真情,感谢宝二爷在BTER最需要支持的时刻无畏非议来访BTER,也感谢所有通过各种方式一直支持我们的朋友,我们将重新站起来并走的更远"

"A friend in need is a friend indeed. Thanks to Bao who braved against all negative publicity to visit us and in a time when Bter needs support most. Thanks to friends of Bter who support us through various channels/methods.  We will stand again and we will travel far."

Bter's friend: "比特儿创始人韩林 创办比特儿两年来 经历过各种风风雨雨 7000币被盗事件属实 平台是目前还是世界最大的二代币平台 拥有海外注册用户9万人 国内注册用户13万人 其中大量用户希望其继续努力 不要倒下! "

"Bter's founder Han Lin developed Bter these two years when through a lot of obstacles and difficulties. The case of 7000 coins stolen is real. Bter is still the world Number Two virtual currency exchange. It has 90,000 foreign registered users and 130000 local users. Most users hope Bter can continue to work hard. Do not fall!"
(http://ww2.sinaimg.cn/bmiddle/c1d2fdc6jw1epxgupkz1fj20hs0dcjsu.jpg)

17) JUA: "JUA聚啊可以为比特儿提供企业级的理财方案,希望比特儿早日重新站起来!"

"JUA can help Bter with enterprise level financial management. Hope Bter make a come back soon!"

18 ) Bter: "我们正在部署全新的交易系统,100%冷钱包资金托管,彻底解决资金安全问题。更快的交易引擎,更友好的界面,更多的功能,预计24-48小时完成,敬请期待,感谢您的支持!"

We are implementing an all-new exchange system. 100% cold wallet trust held. Completely take care of fund safety. Faster exchange engine. More user-friendly interface. More features. Estimate 24-48 hours complete. We seek your patience. Thank you for your support!

19) Bter: "The trading will be enabled soon. Please do double check your balances and the price in your existing orders."

20) Bter: "The previous BTC balance has been moved to BTC-B which will be used as the reference for 100% compensating our user's BTC loss."

21) Bter: "我们将在24小时内开放交易系统,请务必检查您的帐号资金和您的订单。市场已经发生变化,请务必检查您之前所下有效订单的价格,如与您当前期望不符,可立即取消订单。用户之前BTC余额已经转移到 BTC_B(BTC Pending)存储,我们将此作为归还用户之前BTC的依据,归还方案很快发布。"

We will be opening the exchange within 24 hours. Please check your balance and orders. There are changes in the market, please check your order prices. If the prices do not seems right, you may cancel order. Users' BTC balance has been moved to "BTC_B(BTC Pending)". We will use it as a basis for returning BTC. Detailing on the BTC returning will be announced soon.

22) Bter : "Darkcoin's CNY market has been opened at https://bter.com/trade/drk_cny , deposit at https://bter.com/myaccount/deposit/DRK … , withdraw at https://bter.com/myaccount/withdraw/DRK …"

23) Bter: "No trading FEE in all BTER's markets for one month to thank all of you for your support !"

24) Bter: "Continue to operate and pay back to users.Check the details and the payback plan at "

https://bter.com/article/4760

ie Bter's compensation plan to lost btc users.

25) Bter: "500 BTC  has been distributed to support the existing orders and another 500 BTC has been distributed to all users' balances based BTC_B."

26) Bter: "首批1000BTC已经下发到用户帐号,其中500BTC用于支持已有订单,500BTC按照用户BTC_B比例已经分发给受影响的用户。以后我们将持续为受影响用户分发BTC,尽最大努力和最快速度完成100%用户损失补偿。完成补偿后受影响用户还将额外分享BTER半年手续费收入。"

First 1000BTC given to users, of which 500BTC is used to support placed orders, 500BTC to match against BTC_B records of affected users. We will continue to work very hard to pay BTC users in the earliest possible time and with 100% compensation. Affected users will get a bonus of half year BTER fee after being made whole.

27) JUA officially announces its support for Bter's rebuild. 

"
关于JUA支持bter重建的公告

众所周知,bter经历了重大安全事故,面对众多bter的用户资产损失,我们经过了与bter的沟通和审查后,综合评估认定bter具备较大的市场价值,所以jua决定支持bter重建,并进行一系列技术等资源支持。
      1、bter目前状况如下:
      a、总注册用户量228312,英文用户90209位 占比39.4%,中文用户138103位占比60.6%
      b、中国最早的虚拟币多币种交易平台,支持80多种虚拟货币。从2013年至今一直是中国流量最大的虚拟币服务平台
      c、Alexa全球排名17504,中国排名9773
      d、完成交易12926316笔,完成用户充值3014575次(209427次人民币充值,2805148次虚拟币充值),完成用户提现679678次。
      2、jua第一期援助bter 1000btc长期无息贷款,用于bter当前的恢复工作,不排除后期援助,bter质押55%股份给jua,用于安全保障;
      3、Jua托管bter的冷钱包管理服务,Jua立即着手建立企业级虚拟币存储和充值体现体系,以达到完全托管bter的虚拟币在线业务;
      4、后续chbtc与bter之间建立更多的合作联系,帮助bter拓展更多业务,一起把业务做大做强。
      5、Jua团队协助bter完成当前安全检测与服务部署相关工作,让本次事件成为bter最后一次安全事件!
      希望bter的重建真正减少用户损失,对所有人都有益处,也希望藉此JUA能与bter建立良好的合作关系,快速走向世界;另外,jua重资收购了国际域名 bitbank.com,请大家一起期待更美好的未来银行!"

28) Bter: "Most markets are re-enabled now and we are making withdrawals work for more and more coins."

29) PTS withdrawal reported successful.

30) BitUSD, BitGold withdrawal reported successful.

31) BTS Wallet issue fixed. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=14910.msg193783#msg193783

BTS withdrawal reported successful

32) Bter: "We have upgraded the Crypti (XCR) 's APIs and the wallet is working now. Thank the dev for the help. Waiting for an official new release."
"The Tilecoin (XTC) withdrawal will be re-enabled when the wallet finishes the slow blockchain parsing in 1-2 days."

33) Bter: "BTS,XTC,XM wallets fixed and synced."
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: graffenwalder on February 15, 2015, 10:42:10 am
I don't hope what i think it is.

But earlier about on hour before this, i got an DNS resolution error, when visiting bter. Anyone knows what that means?
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: hadrian on February 15, 2015, 10:54:31 am
I hope that a large percentage of a cryptocurrency hasn't ended up in the hands of thieves. It's no good for the ecosystem (at least in the short term). If a distribution is too heavily in the hands of thieves, people are less inclined to grow the system. Then the arguments pop up about whether or not to revert the blockchain.

I suppose there is the SLIGHT chance that people will veer away from centralised exchanges if problems keep occurring!  :P

Hopefully bter will have this sorted soon without any major problems...
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: liondani on February 15, 2015, 11:14:52 am
I hope that was not the reason behind BTS decline the last week ...
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: yankey on February 15, 2015, 11:39:04 am
oh dear.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: mf-tzo on February 15, 2015, 11:40:15 am
and this is why we should all trade in our platform even if it is slower...
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: graffenwalder on February 15, 2015, 11:43:19 am
Poloniex just froze BTS trades. Not sure if this is because they haven't upgraded to the hardfork. Or it's because they've got some rather large deposits.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: mf-tzo on February 15, 2015, 11:49:22 am

In the meantime...
shapeshift is also not exchanging btc to bts and bitusd (presumable it uses bter)
bitsharesblock doesn't work
metaexchange for btc bitbtc is in maintenance...

It will be an exciting day today...

I would recommend that all of you withdraw your BTS from other exchanges to our internal exchange and continue your trading there.. Even if it is slower it is more secure from hackers...Now is the time to advertise our exchange and show to the rest of communities what decentralised trading means..
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: graffenwalder on February 15, 2015, 11:54:58 am

In the meantime...
shapeshift is also not exchanging btc to bts and bitusd (presumable it uses bter)
bitsharesblock doesn't work
metaexchange for btc bitbtc is in maintenance...

It will be an exciting day today...

I would recommend that all of you withdraw your BTS from other exchanges to our internal exchange and continue your trading there.. Even if it is slower it is more secure from hackers...Now is the time to advertise our exchange and show to the rest of communities what decentralised trading means..
Oei, that's a big problem. Shapeshift uses bter for us and Nubits. This could be a devastating blow for them.
Not to mention some other projects we have running on bter.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: cube on February 15, 2015, 12:10:53 pm
Oei, that's a big problem. Shapeshift uses bter for us and Nubits. This could be a devastating blow for them.
Not to mention some other projects we have running on bter.

I hope our bts dev fund is not trapped in bter.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: cass on February 15, 2015, 12:12:14 pm
Oei, that's a big problem. Shapeshift uses bter for us and Nubits. This could be a devastating blow for them.
Not to mention some other projects we have running on bter.

I hope our bts dev fund is not trapped in bter.

i would not think so!
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: mf-tzo on February 15, 2015, 12:22:47 pm
Has anyone checked if BTS withdrawals works from BTC38?
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: cube on February 15, 2015, 12:25:43 pm
Poloniex just froze BTS trades. Not sure if this is because they haven't upgraded to the hardfork. Or it's because they've got some rather large deposits.

Does anyone know the reason behind poloniex's freezing of bts?


..
It will be an exciting day today...
..

It is going to be a long and dreadful day for those with fund trapped.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: joele on February 15, 2015, 12:34:39 pm
In case bts in bter hacked, can we vote to fork and reverse the transaction?
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: sumantso on February 15, 2015, 12:38:25 pm
In case bts in bter hacked, can we vote to fork and reverse the transaction?

Can the block explorer show if there were large movements?

I hope its possible to hardfork and remove them. My laptop can't run the client so I was waiting for the light client to withdraw my balance; and if indeed BTS has been lost that would, well, don't want to think about it now.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: LRENZ on February 15, 2015, 12:51:41 pm
My laptop can't run the client so I was waiting for the light client to withdraw my balance; and if indeed BTS has been lost that would, well, don't want to think about it now.

Same as me, I really didn't want to keep BTS on there but had no choice. This does not look good :(
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: LRENZ on February 15, 2015, 12:59:17 pm
Quote
. Their support is still responsive though.

Dear Sir, Our dev is doing security checking currently. Our dev will try to finish it as soon as possible

Please kindly keep an eye on our website for the update

Best Regards Bter.com   

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2vylrm/btercom_offline/com1vb]

Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Method-X on February 15, 2015, 01:14:03 pm
Apparently their BTC wallet was emptied (7300BTC). If you follow the transactions you'll see the coins are being split up. Not good.

http://www.walletexplorer.com/wallet/Bter.com-cold
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on February 15, 2015, 01:22:02 pm
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/006/512/DoubleFacePalm.jpg)
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Volker on February 15, 2015, 02:03:52 pm
In case bts in bter hacked, can we vote to fork and reverse the transaction?

Can the block explorer show if there were large movements?

I hope its possible to hardfork and remove them. My laptop can't run the client so I was waiting for the light client to withdraw my balance; and if indeed BTS has been lost that would, well, don't want to think about it now.

BTS must remain fungible. If we start hardforking to take money back from thieves, it undermines fungibility.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: liondani on February 15, 2015, 02:31:30 pm
Yeah, but imagine what the world would think if we successfully thwarted a blatantly obvious MtGox type heist by voting as a community to roll back a couple transactions on the blockchian (and the transactions that sprouted from those of course) and returned to them to the affected party (BTER).

We would look like superman-coin!

And of course we could explain to Max Keiser, USA Today, Wall Strett Journal, Bloomberg, etc., that this was something that could only easily be done right now because our coin and community is so small (so no future guarantees)

reimburse those affected via donations.  Of course it would be much easier right now because hardly anybody is using  our blockchain.

What good is our BitShares VOTING capability if we cannot vote to thwart the greatest criminal villain mastermind in BTS history!

We would say that once 1.0 comes out, then it's every man, woman, and centralized exchange for themselves from that point onward or something to that nature.

If we do nothing but take it, then the price of BTS will fall like BTC after MtGox, if we become the first blockchain in history to thwart a crime, then we would gain the "centralized community control margin of safety" that causes Ripple to be such a high market cap that we crave.

BitShares - the first and only safe AND decentralized crypto (Ripple is "safely controlled" but not decentralized).

Safety builds confidence, and investors love confidence and transparency.

worth a brainstorm on that idea for sure!
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: lzr1900 on February 15, 2015, 02:40:06 pm

7170 BTC got stolen from our cold wallet in this transaction:

https://blockchain.info/tx/f5b0363f03e1ed8bb812c135361ea93590c831ce9f13a3750be1b93575baccc6

720 BTC bounty for chasing it back.

All wallets have been shut down and withdrawals of unaffected coins will be arranged later.





BTER.com
Email:support@mail.bter.com
Phone:400-0070-955
QQ: 4000070955




WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: sumantso on February 15, 2015, 02:41:32 pm
Hopefully they won't take a cut of the remaining coins. Please get the light wallet out ASAP.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: joele on February 15, 2015, 02:45:16 pm
What?! cold wallet got hacked? on Feb 14 Valentines day? someone dated a hacker !
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: xeroc on February 15, 2015, 02:47:06 pm
I hope their bts cold storage is more secured ...
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: santaclause102 on February 15, 2015, 02:50:28 pm
Do we know whether BTS also have been stolen? Sadly bitsharesblocks.com is down atm too se we can't check. Or can we?
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: speedy on February 15, 2015, 02:53:25 pm
To all those of you have large amounts of BTS on Bter, you get what you deserve. You could have been trading BTS:BitBTC on our own system.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Riverhead on February 15, 2015, 02:54:10 pm
Do we know whether BTS also have been stolen? Sadly bitsharesblocks.com is down atm too se we can't check. Or can we?

You can browse back through the blocks and look for large transactions. However since it was a cold wallet theft I'm thinking it was a social hack. The only way to steal from a cold wallet is to get the private key. If it was truly a cold wallet that would require physical access by definition. I suspect it was a warm wallet (stored online but not used).
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: infovortice2013 on February 15, 2015, 02:55:27 pm
To all those of you have large amounts of BTS on Bter, you get what you deserve. You could have been trading BTS:BitBTC on our own system.


JAJAJAJAJAJ

yeah can say too, if you never buy bts sure not have this problems WTF
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: xeroc on February 15, 2015, 02:55:48 pm
To all those of you have large amounts of BTS on Bter, you get what you deserve. You could have been trading BTS:BitBTC on our own system.
lol .. harsh but true: we told you so :)
Anyway making use of this for marketing will harm our good relations to bter .. wouldnt be fair to bash them .. imho
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: speedy on February 15, 2015, 02:56:26 pm
To all those of you have large amounts of BTS on Bter, you get what you deserve. You could have been trading BTS:BitBTC on our own system.


JAJAJAJAJAJ

yeah can say too, if you never buy bts sure not have this problems WTF

Yeah I bought BTS from there too, but I withdrew it immediately.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: matt608 on February 15, 2015, 02:59:24 pm
To all those of you have large amounts of BTS on Bter, you get what you deserve. You could have been trading BTS:BitBTC on our own system.

hardly, cryptohedge was/is performing a valuable service enforcing the peg on exchanges.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Riverhead on February 15, 2015, 03:03:43 pm
To all those of you have large amounts of BTS on Bter, you get what you deserve. You could have been trading BTS:BitBTC on our own system.

hardly, cryptohedge was/is performing a valuable service enforcing the peg on exchanges.

Cryptohedge did not have large BTC balances. If Bter keeps coin balances on their native chains we'll be fine. We also have funds elsewhere for hedging. While market making on a centralized exchange is risky it needs to happen and the risk can be mitigated via hedges.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: xeroc on February 15, 2015, 03:04:02 pm
To all those of you have large amounts of BTS on Bter, you get what you deserve. You could have been trading BTS:BitBTC on our own system.

hardly, cryptohedge was/is performing a valuable service enforcing the peg on exchanges.
Also true .. sucks .. maybe @Rune can tell us how much btc may be lost
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: joele on February 15, 2015, 03:05:25 pm
To all those of you have large amounts of BTS on Bter, you get what you deserve. You could have been trading BTS:BitBTC on our own system.

hardly, cryptohedge was/is performing a valuable service enforcing the peg on exchanges.
Too bad, bter ruins it.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: sumantso on February 15, 2015, 03:06:11 pm
If Bter shuts down, wonder what will happen to all those snapshots.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on February 15, 2015, 03:08:31 pm
Yeah, but imagine what the world would think if we successfully thwarted a blatantly obvious MtGox type heist by voting as a community to roll back a couple transactions on the blockchian (and the transactions that sprouted from those of course) and returned to them to the affected party (BTER).

We would look like superman-coin!

And of course we could explain to Max Keiser, USA Today, Wall Strett Journal, Bloomberg, etc., that this was something that could only easily be done right now because our coin and community is so small (so no future guarantees)

reimburse those affected via donations.  Of course it would be much easier right now because hardly anybody is using  our blockchain.

What good is our BitShares VOTING capability if we cannot vote to thwart the greatest criminal villain mastermind in BTS history!

We would say that once 1.0 comes out, then it's every man, woman, and centralized exchange for themselves from that point onward or something to that nature.

If we do nothing but take it, then the price of BTS will fall like BTC after MtGox, if we become the first blockchain in history to thwart a crime, then we would gain the "centralized community control margin of safety" that causes Ripple to be such a high market cap that we crave.

BitShares - the first and only safe AND decentralized crypto (Ripple is "safely controlled" but not decentralized).

Safety builds confidence, and investors love confidence and transparency.

"the greatest criminal villain mastermind in BTS history!" << huh? You talk as though you know them.

Nobody has said anything about BTS being stolen.

I agree though that if something large enough like this were to occur.. I agree that a voting rollback would make tremendous headlines and would be a huge deterrent for any wannabe thieves.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: joele on February 15, 2015, 03:14:57 pm
Bitshares should have consensus that if a centralized exchanger hacked and stole the BTS, it will be forked to reverse the transaction, this way hacker will not bother to touch the BTS. :D
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: davidpbrown on February 15, 2015, 03:18:21 pm
"Bter has announcement.
http://weibo.com/p/1001603810634063024170"

via Google translate that page suggests:
Quote
About bit instructions regarding stolen children BTC
2015年2月15日 22:10
 After preliminary examination to determine, February 14, 2015 Hackers use our instant hot from cold filled purse wallet, the bit cold TWS children all BTC wallet stolen, totaling 7170BTC, transfer records for:
https://blockchain.info/tx/f5b0363f03e1ed8bb812c135361ea93590c831ce9f13a3750be1b93575baccc6
We've February 15, 2015 the morning to the local police station and was accepted. We will actively cooperate with the police investigation, the recovery of stolen Bitcoins. At the same time, we are offering a reward of 7170 720BTC recover stolen Bitcoins here. To ensure the safety of other funds, we have taken technical measures to stop and turn off all the virtual currency trading online wallet, to do further checks. At the same time, we plan to arrange CNY extraction and other virtual currency as soon as possible to reduce the user to worry about. For losses caused by the user and we apologize

Up to now a bit child has been in operation for nearly two years. We traveled together to accompany the ups and downs of the bitcoin. We look at a variety of currencies to accompany the rise of decline. Please be assured that we will not run away, we will assume responsibility for the user to recover the stolen Bitcoins.

Original text:
Quote
关于比特儿BTC被盗一事的说明
2015年2月15日 22:10
 经初步检查确定,2015年2月14日黑客利用我们从冷钱包填充热钱包的瞬间,将比特儿交易平台冷钱包中的所有BTC盗走,总额为7170BTC,转账记录为:
https://blockchain.info/tx/f5b0363f03e1ed8bb812c135361ea93590c831ce9f13a3750be1b93575baccc6
我们已经在2015年2月15日上午到当地派出所报案并被受理。我们将积极配合警方调查处理,追讨被盗的比特币。同时,我们在此悬赏720BTC追讨被盗的7170比特币。
 为了确保其他资金安全,我们已经采取技术措施,停止交易并关闭所有虚拟币在线钱包,去做进一步检查。于此同时,我们计划尽快安排CNY以及其他虚拟币的提取工作,减少用户担心。对用户造成的损失我们深表歉意,
截止到现在比特儿已经运营了快两年了。陪大家一起走过了比特币的风风雨雨。陪大家看多种币种的衰落兴起。请大家放心,我们不会跑路,我们将承担责任,为用户追讨被盗比特币。

Perhaps that then is not formally a cold wallet hack. :-\

Where is there an unhackable decentralised exchange when you need one?
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: matt608 on February 15, 2015, 03:29:15 pm
To all those of you have large amounts of BTS on Bter, you get what you deserve. You could have been trading BTS:BitBTC on our own system.

hardly, cryptohedge was/is performing a valuable service enforcing the peg on exchanges.
Also true .. sucks .. maybe @Rune can tell us how much btc may be lost

word, this sucks, which is why we need to expand our selection of bitAssets to include everything on coinmarketcap100 (because that's what all the crypto traders are trading) before we create feeds for BitSteel, BitCorn, and BitPalladium (where it's difficult to have an accurate 24hr feed).  Wouldn't it be easier to make BitDODE because it trades 24/7?

To have market pegged assets in the current way for anything there has to be enough demand for the peg to work and with altcoins there almost definitely isn't enough, and it harms them by taking demand away for the original coin.

My non-technical self wonders if that could be done by burning the original coin to get a bitWhatever version of it, which could be traded against anything on bitshares.

e.g. someone sends 1LTC to a burn address and recieves bitLTC in return which can then trade against anything on BitShares.  Is that useful?  You can't do that for bitUSD because you can't provably burn USD but with crypto's you can.  It could be a stupid idea... thought I'd say it anyway.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: hpenvy2 on February 15, 2015, 03:34:27 pm
I worry about snapshots.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: sumantso on February 15, 2015, 03:36:42 pm
I worry about snapshots.

If they indeed close down, I guess BM and co. can work with them and get the snapshot list. It would be a bit messy, though.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: monsterer on February 15, 2015, 03:37:33 pm
Quote
Hackers use our instant hot from cold filled purse wallet,

That totally defeats the entire purpose of cold storage.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: xeroc on February 15, 2015, 03:40:03 pm
I worry about snapshots.
... and vested balances
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: oco101 on February 15, 2015, 03:49:46 pm
Hackers use our instant hot from cold filled purse wallet

lol !!! Why they even call it cold wallet ? So basically there was never a cold wallet !!
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: xiahui135 on February 15, 2015, 03:52:24 pm
To all those of you have large amounts of BTS on Bter, you get what you deserve. You could have been trading BTS:BitBTC on our own system.
i have no bts on bter. but i have to say it is because our client is not usable. Most the people can not install the client or sync.
I upgrade my computer form 4GB ram to 6GB,and instaled a win 64 bit to run the client. and I tried several times in a week until I succeed to sync. I also do not want to install the new version, because there is large change that i can not use it. I will use the lower edition until it will not work.This may be the reason why many people just not own BTS, and there is not much liquidity in the client.

Just hope everyone good luck.

P.S. my MUSIC and play snapshot is on bter though.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: klosure on February 15, 2015, 03:57:09 pm
I worry about snapshots.

If they indeed close down, I guess BM and co. can work with them and get the snapshot list. It would be a bit messy, though.
The would need to give their BTS private keys and find  way go migrate the user database including password hashes and 2FA seeds to BM. Sounds complicated.


Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: santaclause102 on February 15, 2015, 03:58:27 pm
Why do you worry about the snapshots? Bter announcement said nothing about anything stolen except BTC...
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: LRENZ on February 15, 2015, 04:04:56 pm
Light/mobile wallet can not come soon enough. Not everyone has 999 GB RAM with SSD to make client work :(
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: xiahui135 on February 15, 2015, 04:08:41 pm
Yeah, but imagine what the world would think if we successfully thwarted a blatantly obvious MtGox type heist by voting as a community to roll back a couple transactions on the blockchian (and the transactions that sprouted from those of course) and returned to them to the affected party (BTER).

We would look like superman-coin!

And of course we could explain to Max Keiser, USA Today, Wall Strett Journal, Bloomberg, etc., that this was something that could only easily be done right now because our coin and community is so small (so no future guarantees)

reimburse those affected via donations.  Of course it would be much easier right now because hardly anybody is using  our blockchain.

What good is our BitShares VOTING capability if we cannot vote to thwart the greatest criminal villain mastermind in BTS history!

We would say that once 1.0 comes out, then it's every man, woman, and centralized exchange for themselves from that point onward or something to that nature.

If we do nothing but take it, then the price of BTS will fall like BTC after MtGox, if we become the first blockchain in history to thwart a crime, then we would gain the "centralized community control margin of safety" that causes Ripple to be such a high market cap that we crave.

BitShares - the first and only safe AND decentralized crypto (Ripple is "safely controlled" but not decentralized).

Safety builds confidence, and investors love confidence and transparency.

"the greatest criminal villain mastermind in BTS history!" << huh? You talk as though you know them.

Nobody has said anything about BTS being stolen.

I agree though that if something large enough like this were to occur.. I agree that a voting rollback would make tremendous headlines and would be a huge deterrent for any wannabe thieves.
It is not possible. there are people buy and sell BTS. if the system roll back, I can sell the bts twice. Every roll back is large harm, and the system will crash. maybe there should be other way to solve this, though we have not now.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: xeroc on February 15, 2015, 04:12:18 pm
A "rollback" would only revoke one transaction and not a set of blocks!!
Everything else would be noobish
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Ggozzo on February 15, 2015, 04:13:09 pm
Why do you worry about the snapshots? Bter announcement said nothing about anything stolen except BTC...

They may be worried that 7K missing BTC could cause them to close down. Its a legit concern for them. Although they were told, I am sure many times to not rely on third parties for things like this. I had .25 BTC on BTER and a buy order was in for BTS. Hopefully my trade got triggered before they shut it down but not a big loss if not.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Bitcoinfan on February 15, 2015, 04:15:50 pm
Is it me or is the Bitshares network down as well?  I can't see anything on Client or on Bitsharesblocks. 
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: xeroc on February 15, 2015, 04:23:26 pm
Is it me or is the Bitshares network down as well?  I can't see anything on Client or on Bitsharesblocks.
Network in the green here
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: arhag on February 15, 2015, 04:25:17 pm
I can't believe how many people there are supporting rollbacks (even if it's targeted rollbacks to a small set of transactions) in this thread. It completely undermines the blockchain.

No one could trust that their transfers for goods/services would be final.

If we were to have such a policy, how would we decide which balances were the stolen ones? How would an innocent person accepting funds from those balances for legitimate trade of goods/services know that those balances were tainted before accepting them? Or do we just accept that those people (who didn't take an extra risk by trading on a centralized exchange) are going to lose for the benefit of bailing out the unfortunate victims who knowingly took the risk to trade on a centralized exchange?

Also, who is the authority that decides/confirms which balances were stolen, the stakeholders? If so, what quorum is necessary? Even if it is 75%, you risk having the other 25% dump the stake after the hard fork because of such an extreme change in policy, crashing the price. So then maybe a 95% quorum is necessary. But that is a ridiculously high percentage that is unrealistic to ever reach. Especially considering that the people most likely to vote for the hard fork are the people who lost their money (and therefore don't have the funds to vote with).

No rollbacks! The solution is to reduce our dependence on centralized exchanges.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: hpenvy2 on February 15, 2015, 04:31:23 pm
I can't believe how many people there are supporting rollbacks (even if it's targeted rollbacks to a small set of transactions) in this thread. It completely undermines the blockchain.

No one could trust that their transfers for goods/services would be final.

If we were to have such a policy, how would we decide which balances were the stolen ones? How would an innocent person accepting funds from those balances for legitimate trade of goods/services know that those balances were tainted before accepting them? Or do we just accept that those people (who didn't take an extra risk by trading on a centralized exchange) are going to lose for the benefit of bailing out the unfortunate victims who knowingly took the risk to trade on a centralized exchange?

Also, who is the authority that decides/confirms which balances were stolen, the stakeholders? If so, what quorum is necessary? Even if it is 75%, you risk having the other 25% dump the stake after the hard fork because of such an extreme change in policy, crashing the price. So then maybe a 95% quorum is necessary. But that is a ridiculously high percentage that is unrealistic to ever reach. Especially considering that the people most likely to vote for the hard fork are the people who lost their money (and therefore don't have the funds to vote with).

No rollbacks! The solution is to reduce our dependence on centralized exchanges.

Of course no rollbacks. The minute that happened you might as well stick a fork in the project.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: cube on February 15, 2015, 04:37:21 pm

Perhaps that then is not formally a cold wallet hack. :-\

Where is there an unhackable decentralised exchange when you need one?

The translation was not good enough.

"黑客利用我们从冷钱包填充热钱包的瞬间,将比特儿交易平台冷钱包中的所有BTC盗走" translates to

"Hackers made use of the time we were restocking our hot wallet from cold wallet. They stole all the BTC from the Bter's cold wallet."
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Ander on February 15, 2015, 04:39:19 pm
Holy shit, really bter?  Your cold wallet?


Thank god its not BTS.  "Withdrawals of the unaffected coins will be arranged later". 

If they dont get it back they are insolvent.  If they pay the 720 bounty and manage to get it back somehow they are probably solvent, like after the NXT hack, but I dont trust them anymore.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Ander on February 15, 2015, 04:42:20 pm
I can't believe how many people there are supporting rollbacks (even if it's targeted rollbacks to a small set of transactions) in this thread. It completely undermines the blockchain.


Its not BTS, its their BTC.  We should all be okay.

Ironically, whoever dumped BTS on there yesterday might not get their BTC, lol.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: jsidhu on February 15, 2015, 04:43:02 pm
Bter is done final fork in central xchanges., long live bts
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Empirical1.2 on February 15, 2015, 04:43:08 pm
Holy shit, really bter?  Your cold wallet?


Thank god its not BTS.  "Withdrawals of the unaffected coins will be arranged later". 

If they dont get it back they are insolvent.  If they pay the 720 bounty and manage to get it back somehow they are probably solvent, like after the NXT hack, but I dont trust them anymore.

I'm just heading home but the short version is that on Fri afternoon I was credited/re-credited with BTS & BitUSD on Bter that wasn't mine but was related to amounts I'd deposited in the past. I noticed this on Sat &
wrote a message to Bter and a couple of our developers about the issue. Everything else seems to have transpired since.
 
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: arhag on February 15, 2015, 04:43:36 pm
"Hackers made use of the time we were restocking our hot wallet from cold wallet. They stole all the BTC from the Bter's cold wallet."

That makes no sense. If the cold wallet is exposed when restocking the hot wallet, then it isn't actually a cold wallet. A proper cold wallet requires signing the withdraw transaction on an offline computer, not putting the cold wallet keys on an online computer! SMH
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Ander on February 15, 2015, 04:43:53 pm
Looks like this news has caused btc to start dropping.  I guess the market known 7k is going to be dumped on it probably.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: jsidhu on February 15, 2015, 04:44:52 pm
Lol it was a noob operation
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: CLains on February 15, 2015, 04:46:28 pm
I really did like bter :(

Hopefully some hero will track down the bad guys.  +5%
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: arhag on February 15, 2015, 04:47:46 pm
I can't believe how many people there are supporting rollbacks (even if it's targeted rollbacks to a small set of transactions) in this thread. It completely undermines the blockchain.


Its not BTS, its their BTC.  We should all be okay.

Good, let's hope so. But we should still be vigilant. Eventually it will happen to us as long as we keep using centralized exchanges.

Light wallets with exchange functionality can't come soon enough. And then we also need decentralized-ish (where counterparty risk is only a subset of the delegates) BTC gateways/bridges.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Empirical1.2 on February 15, 2015, 04:49:36 pm
I can't believe how many people there are supporting rollbacks (even if it's targeted rollbacks to a small set of transactions) in this thread. It completely undermines the blockchain.


Its not BTS, its their BTC.  We should all be okay.

Good, let's hope so. But we should still be vigilant. Eventually it will happen to us as long as we keep using centralized exchanges.

Light wallets with exchange functionality can't come soon enough. And then we also need decentralized-ish (where counterparty risk is only a subset of the delegates) BTC gateways/bridges.

They definitely lost BTS too.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Bitcoinfan on February 15, 2015, 04:50:22 pm
Where did you get that?
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: hpenvy2 on February 15, 2015, 04:51:38 pm
I apologize for the newbie question, I never dealt with snapshots in the wallet.  Is it possibly to export keys from BTER that would allow snapshots to be imported into the wallet?  I kept 95% of my coins off the exchange but did have slightly larger snapshots.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Empirical1.2 on February 15, 2015, 04:59:17 pm
Where did you get that?

If you read my post above you'll see there was some glitch that incorrectly credited me with BTS & BitUSD on Fri that I noticed on Sat. I doubt I was the only one and I imagine the strange dump of BTS on Bter on Fri was probably related to that glitch/hack.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: jsidhu on February 15, 2015, 05:00:10 pm
Cant ppl blacklist the address to track them?

I think they must have imported pvt key of cold wallet into hot wallet and then xfer some to their exchange.. How else would they xfer from a cold wallet unless it was a node that went online just for an xfer
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on February 15, 2015, 05:03:48 pm
No rollbacks! The solution is to reduce our dependence on centralized exchanges.

Agree we need less dependency on them.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: donkeypong on February 15, 2015, 05:08:23 pm
Can we lock this thread and start another one? Unless the goal is to create cheap BTS, the title looks rather alarmist to casual observers. It looks like Bitcoin was stolen, not BitShares.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: toknormal on February 15, 2015, 05:09:12 pm

I had all my Bitshares on there.

Kept promising myself I'd get round to "learning" how to make a Bitshares cold wallet with as much confidence as I have with QT and never got round to it.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: vlight on February 15, 2015, 05:10:41 pm
Why do they hold 7K BTC in only one cold wallet? Why not have max 1K BTC in one cold wallet. I don't understand. Am i missing something ?
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: CLains on February 15, 2015, 05:11:19 pm
Deliberate Sunday ambush. Hopefully people wake up to the $169 834 bounty.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Bitcoinfan on February 15, 2015, 05:14:54 pm
Cant ppl blacklist the address to track them?

I think they must have imported pvt key of cold wallet into hot wallet and then xfer some to their exchange.. How else would they xfer from a cold wallet unless it was a node that went online just for an xfer

Blacklists won't help if thieves can launder and wash to bluff the trace.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: jsidhu on February 15, 2015, 05:15:45 pm
If the hacker is smart they would buy bitbtc or bts on the decentralized exchange to avoid being tracked... So this might be bullish for us shortterm and long.. If they use a central exchange they risk being caught
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: jsidhu on February 15, 2015, 05:16:46 pm
Cant ppl blacklist the address to track them?

I think they must have imported pvt key of cold wallet into hot wallet and then xfer some to their exchange.. How else would they xfer from a cold wallet unless it was a node that went online just for an xfer

Blacklists won't help if thieves can launder and wash to bluff the trace.

How can they launder say if all exchNges and localbitcoins were notified of the hackers tx
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: graffenwalder on February 15, 2015, 05:17:47 pm
If the hacker is smart they would buy bitbtc or bts on the decentralized exchange to avoid being tracked... So this might be bullish for us shortterm and long.. If they use a central exchange they risk being caught
I like your optimism
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Bitcoinfan on February 15, 2015, 05:17:59 pm
If the hacker is smart they would buy bitbtc or bts on the decentralized exchange to avoid being tracked... So this might be bullish for us shortterm and long.. If they use a central exchange they risk being caught

According to reddit the hacker already washed it.  They prob have no idea what bts gateways are and have so many btc they can't funnel through our network
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Bitcoinfan on February 15, 2015, 05:19:23 pm
There aren't many choices for altcoin exchanges.  It's an opportunity for bts
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: jsidhu on February 15, 2015, 05:19:54 pm
If the hacker is smart they would buy bitbtc or bts on the decentralized exchange to avoid being tracked... So this might be bullish for us shortterm and long.. If they use a central exchange they risk being caught

According to reddit the hacker already washed it.  They prob have no idea what bts gateways are and have so many btc they can't funnel through our network

How?

I have a tool that will trace an address down to its origin maybe i can use it to try to detect if any deposit tx if originating from the bad tx.. If exchanges used it u can track the theif?
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Shentist on February 15, 2015, 05:20:42 pm
Why do they hold 7K BTC in only one cold wallet? Why not have max 1K BTC in one cold wallet. I don't understand. Am i missing something ?

if it would be a cold wallet, no hacker could touch it!

But it sounds not like a cold wallet to me, or someone is running withit physically right now :D
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: graffenwalder on February 15, 2015, 05:23:13 pm
Only 170 BTC got washed, the other 7000 is still sitting in 7 separate accounts.

That's not the only strange thing, this morning there was a deposit into to cold wallet with this note:
Quote
Public Note: Good afternoon! Your help is necessary. My wife has a problem with health, treatment is necessary (we expect a baby). If you have some unnecessary btc or satosh, please, help, we will rejoice any help.
https://blockchain.info/tx/8b3a5448471947ce1ff890a9f250db85ef56a7431b20b0f3e41e3600b1dd8014
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Ander on February 15, 2015, 05:28:38 pm
Where did you get that?

If you read my post above you'll see there was some glitch that incorrectly credited me with BTS & BitUSD on Fri that I noticed on Sat. I doubt I was the only one and I imagine the strange dump of BTS on Bter on Fri was probably related to that glitch/hack.

It seems to me that the hacker sold any free BTS they got and ran off with the BTC.  The dump was like 3 million BTS, followed by a few more 200k dumps.  At most probably 5M BTS.  Bter probably can cover that, or at least fulfill 95%.

Unless there is a ~50M BTS tranfer on our blockchain yesterday, the BTS should be fine, or alternately almost all of it fine. 

Can anyone see a transaction like that?

Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: jsidhu on February 15, 2015, 05:43:15 pm
Only 170 BTC got washed, the other 7000 is still sitting in 7 separate accounts.

That's not the only strange thing, this morning there was a deposit into to cold wallet with this note:
Quote
Public Note: Good afternoon! Your help is necessary. My wife has a problem with health, treatment is necessary (we expect a baby). If you have some unnecessary btc or satosh, please, help, we will rejoice any help.
https://blockchain.info/tx/8b3a5448471947ce1ff890a9f250db85ef56a7431b20b0f3e41e3600b1dd8014

How? that could have been the inputs into the hot wallet not necessarily random transactions
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: graffenwalder on February 15, 2015, 05:48:08 pm
Where did you get that?

If you read my post above you'll see there was some glitch that incorrectly credited me with BTS & BitUSD on Fri that I noticed on Sat. I doubt I was the only one and I imagine the strange dump of BTS on Bter on Fri was probably related to that glitch/hack.
It seems to me that the hacker sold any free BTS they got and ran off with the BTC.  The dump was like 3 million BTS, followed by a few more 200k dumps.  At most probably 5M BTS.  Bter probably can cover that, or at least fulfill 95%.

Unless there is a ~50M BTS tranfer on our blockchain yesterday, the BTS should be fine, or alternately almost all of it fine. 

Can anyone see a transaction like that?
*paranoia alert*
What if it was an inside job?
We all remember the alleged BitBay IPO, where they would have cooked the books, with fake BTC.
The devs from crypti have been trying to get there new wallet up and running for weeks now, but bter isn't complying. This was also a bter IPO.
Also that whole NXT hack seems fishy, why would you return it?
And last but not least, an hacked cold wallet?
Maybe things grew out of hand like it did with MT.Gox.
It would also explain the heavy sells on bter, since bter has yet to give it's costumers their vested balances.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: kokojie on February 15, 2015, 05:49:34 pm
Where did you get that?

If you read my post above you'll see there was some glitch that incorrectly credited me with BTS & BitUSD on Fri that I noticed on Sat. I doubt I was the only one and I imagine the strange dump of BTS on Bter on Fri was probably related to that glitch/hack.

It seems to me that the hacker sold any free BTS they got and ran off with the BTC.  The dump was like 3 million BTS, followed by a few more 200k dumps.  At most probably 5M BTS.  Bter probably can cover that, or at least fulfill 95%.

Unless there is a ~50M BTS tranfer on our blockchain yesterday, the BTS should be fine, or alternately almost all of it fine. 

Can anyone see a transaction like that?

How do you know the hacker got any BTS? sounds like the hacker was just targeting BTC, and waiting for BTER to make a transfer from cold wallet, and as soon as BTER did the transfer, the hacker was able to empty their cold wallet and run off. Doesn't seem the hacker got any BTS
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Ander on February 15, 2015, 05:52:07 pm
Where did you get that?

If you read my post above you'll see there was some glitch that incorrectly credited me with BTS & BitUSD on Fri that I noticed on Sat. I doubt I was the only one and I imagine the strange dump of BTS on Bter on Fri was probably related to that glitch/hack.

It seems to me that the hacker sold any free BTS they got and ran off with the BTC.  The dump was like 3 million BTS, followed by a few more 200k dumps.  At most probably 5M BTS.  Bter probably can cover that, or at least fulfill 95%.

Unless there is a ~50M BTS tranfer on our blockchain yesterday, the BTS should be fine, or alternately almost all of it fine. 

Can anyone see a transaction like that?

How do you know the hacker got any BTS? sounds like the hacker was just targeting BTC, and waiting for BTER to make a transfer from cold wallet, and as soon as BTER did the transfer, the hacker was able to empty their cold wallet and run off. Doesn't seem the hacker got any BTS

I agree.  Empirical said they stole BTS.  I dont think they did, or at most stole only a small amount. 
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Ander on February 15, 2015, 06:04:17 pm
For some reason bitsharesblocks isnt working for me today. 

Can anyone check the transaction history for yesterday and see if there were any huge BTS transactions?  If there werent then we know bter still has the bts.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Empirical1.2 on February 15, 2015, 06:12:21 pm
Where did you get that?

If you read my post above you'll see there was some glitch that incorrectly credited me with BTS & BitUSD on Fri that I noticed on Sat. I doubt I was the only one and I imagine the strange dump of BTS on Bter on Fri was probably related to that glitch/hack.

It seems to me that the hacker sold any free BTS they got and ran off with the BTC.  The dump was like 3 million BTS, followed by a few more 200k dumps.  At most probably 5M BTS.  Bter probably can cover that, or at least fulfill 95%.

Unless there is a ~50M BTS tranfer on our blockchain yesterday, the BTS should be fine, or alternately almost all of it fine. 

Can anyone see a transaction like that?

How do you know the hacker got any BTS? sounds like the hacker was just targeting BTC, and waiting for BTER to make a transfer from cold wallet, and as soon as BTER did the transfer, the hacker was able to empty their cold wallet and run off. Doesn't seem the hacker got any BTS

I agree.  Empirical said they stole BTS.  I dont think they did, or at most stole only a small amount.

Well I don't know if the hacker got BTS but recipients of the glitch probably did.

In my case I logged on to deposit and sell BTS for BTC and was surprised to see I already had my regular BTS trading size on my account. So I sold it for BTC. I then saw a very large BitUSD balance that I knew wasn't mine, tested to see with a small amount whether it was withdrawable, sent that amount back to Bter. Then emailed their support and our guys about the issue & told Bter I could easily replace the BTS I had incorrectly sold. (I also keep an XCP balance on Bter that covered that amount anyway.)

Then this all happened, so it seemed like glitch and hack are related but maybe not.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: klosure on February 15, 2015, 06:18:52 pm
I then saw a very large BitUSD balance (medium 4 figures) that I knew wasn't mine, tested to see with a small amount whether it was withdrawable, sent that amount back to Bter.
How about sending back the 7k BTC balance too ;)?
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Ander on February 15, 2015, 06:20:05 pm
Perhaps the bug allowed the hacker to generate someBTC by dumping other coins like BTS.  Then they tried to withdraw BTC, this forced bter to add funds fro mcold wallet, and then this triggered them being vulnerable to getting everything stolen?
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: hadrian on February 15, 2015, 06:34:26 pm
If it is claimed that a 'cold wallet' has been 'hacked' then one or more of the following is true:
edit: this wasn't in response to your post @Ander.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: D4vegee on February 15, 2015, 06:35:43 pm
Welcome to the wild west.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: matt608 on February 15, 2015, 06:38:37 pm


btw, why do you have a new account?
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: klosure on February 15, 2015, 06:44:28 pm
Something puzzles me in the history of Bter cold wallet transaction
http://www.walletexplorer.com/wallet/Bter.com-cold

The withdrawals from the cold wallet are all 100 BTC withdrawals with only a few very rare exceptions, all sent to the same hot wallet address. This does very much look like pre-generated pre-signed offline transactions being broadcasted as needed, save for the eventual custom offline transactions. The two transactions that happened at the time where the cold wallet was alledged to be compromised are most certainly pre-generated pre-signed transactions because to top-up 200 BTC, they didn't send a 200 BTC tx but two standard 100 BTC transactions exactly like all other transactions made in the last month.

Now, If that's the case and Bter was indeed broadcasting pre-generated pre-signed offline transactions to top-up the hot wallet, how did the cold wallet get compromised? The only two rational explanations I can see are that the transaction of 7k+ was generated and signed offline, or the private key of the cold wallet was leaked by the cold wallet operator and the balance withdrawn. Either way, looks very much like an insider job and it should be easy to find the culprit as you would expect that only a few select people would have access to the cold wallet given that production staff (actually most likely a script) can top-up by broadcasting pre-generated and pre-signed transactions.

Even more puzzling is the fact that the hot wallet wasn't actually emptied. As of now, it still has a balance of 0.01860446 BTC. Sounds very congruant with other round number withdrawals.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Empirical1.2 on February 15, 2015, 06:48:14 pm


btw, why do you have a new account?

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11871.msg185151#msg185151

My favourite number is 888 so I ended Empirical1.1 after 888 posts.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: matt608 on February 15, 2015, 06:50:33 pm


btw, why do you have a new account?

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11871.msg185151#msg185151

My favourite number is 888 so I ended Empirical1.1 after 888 posts.

but your first one only has 885?! https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2288  must be the cause of the hack!
:p
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: fluxer555 on February 15, 2015, 06:54:20 pm
Probably due to deleted threads.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Empirical1.2 on February 15, 2015, 06:54:53 pm


btw, why do you have a new account?

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11871.msg185151#msg185151

My favourite number is 888 so I ended Empirical1.1 after 888 posts.

but your first one only has 885?! https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2288  must be the cause of the hack!
:p

Yeah I noticed that :( I think I've lost the password for that one otherwise I'd actually get it back up to 888. Some months ago when they updated the forum/something some people lost a few posts but it was left on 888 originally.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: klosure on February 15, 2015, 06:55:47 pm
you would expect that only a few select people would have access to the cold wallet given that production staff (actually most likely a script) can top-up by broadcasting pre-generated and pre-signed transactions.

Actually it is a script that sent these two 100 BTC top-up transactions. If you look at the timestamps of these transactions, both were received by the node who minted the block at 2015-02-14 04:25:56, which means that they were broadcasted at the same time. Unlikely to be the deed of a human operator.
http://www.walletexplorer.com/txid/f6a3cd44800621cbab9cdee7132e4aab47e35142421ed5985614527fc0ad33fe
http://www.walletexplorer.com/txid/4a700f46a583d585683381c019645da326eafa4767c3f21069f179895daee5b3

edit: as it turns out, this is the blocktime, so these transactions could still have been manually sent.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: klosure on February 15, 2015, 06:59:39 pm


btw, why do you have a new account?

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11871.msg185151#msg185151

My favourite number is 888 so I ended Empirical1.1 after 888 posts.
This leaves you exposed to impersonnification as we will now assume that Empirical1.X has to be you.
You should pre-generate Empirical1.3, 1.4 etc. to thwart that attack.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: infovortice2013 on February 15, 2015, 07:03:33 pm
jajaja

where are the bosses. anyone talk oficially to bter from BitShares?
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: klosure on February 15, 2015, 07:13:16 pm
The only two rational explanations I can see are that the transaction of 7k+ was generated and signed offline, or the private key of the cold wallet was leaked by the cold wallet operator and the balance withdrawn.
The 7k+ transaction wasn't a pre-generated and pre-sigend transaction: it's using the 5BTC return output of the last 100 BTC top up transaction as input, so it was generated and signed after the last 100 BTC transaction was broadcast.
http://www.walletexplorer.com/txid/f5b0363f03e1ed8bb812c135361ea93590c831ce9f13a3750be1b93575baccc6
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: davidpbrown on February 15, 2015, 07:17:03 pm
Welcome to the wild west.

There will be bounty hunters.. Wanted Dead or Alive
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: zerosum on February 15, 2015, 07:20:03 pm


btw, why do you have a new account?

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11871.msg185151#msg185151

My favourite number is 888 so I ended Empirical1.1 after 888 posts.

but your first one only has 885?! https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2288  must be the cause of the hack!
:p

Yeah I noticed that :( I think I've lost the password for that one otherwise I'd actually get it back up to 888. Some months ago when they updated the forum/something some people lost a few posts but it was left on 888 originally.
Yes, he had 888 posts on his account when he ended it ( I also had exactly 2000 on tonyk.... now less).
But mysterious dilation of posts and inability to transfer a domain to a new host is the only work we have to rely on to judge the bitsapphire before paying for their best-of-the best, forced-delegate-voting, peertrack-targeted, BTS-pre-paid-for wallet.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Rune on February 15, 2015, 07:25:26 pm
Cryptohedge held 27 BTC at the time of the hack. Any guesses to how big the haircut will be?

I really hope they didn't steal BTS or bitassets. Even if they didn't this is still a huge blow. Bter likely won't continue operations and if they did there'd be no liquidity. So now we have to find new markets for our bitassets - a real shame since bitgold had just got listed and bitUSD had just started picking up in volume.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: zerosum on February 15, 2015, 07:34:45 pm

 BTC 80% lost (do not ask me what the criteria for BTC will be - BTC deposited or held as bter_IOU_BTC).
 anything else - BTS, bitUSD. bitGold....any alt... 20% loss but the 80% back in 2-2.5 year.

Just a guess....Hope I am wrong.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: mf-tzo on February 15, 2015, 07:38:35 pm
The hacks sucks since everything will likely go down the moment that BTC just started to pick up again...
Tomorrow there might be some really bad news from Greece and this would help btc and all cryptos under normal circumstances...

But let's now all start looking at the bride side...Hold onto your BTS and buy up anyone is selling. Then spread the word and the necessity once again for the advantages of BTS decentralized exchange and let's all work all together to increase BTS market cap when everything else is falling...Let's reverse the trend...BTC falls ==> BTS goes UP! This will bring more people and more confidence in our ecosystem
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: cube on February 15, 2015, 07:39:59 pm
Cryptohedge held 27 BTC at the time of the hack. Any guesses to how big the haircut will be?

I really hope they didn't steal BTS or bitassets. Even if they didn't this is still a huge blow. Bter likely won't continue operations and if they did there'd be no liquidity. So now we have to find new markets for our bitassets - a real shame since bitgold had just got listed and bitUSD had just started picking up in volume.

I fear all the depositors will get zero out of this.

jajaja

where are the bosses. anyone talk oficially to bter from BitShares?

I hope our devs have a privileged communicate channel to Bter and work on a solution for our bts depositors.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: fundomatic on February 15, 2015, 08:16:44 pm
Shapeshift just twitted

https://twitter.com/ShapeShift_io/status/567047121208360960

Quote
Due to BTER being hacked, #ShapeShift will not be able to do NBT, BTS or BitUSD transactions at this time. Stay tuned for updates.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: kokojie on February 15, 2015, 08:35:37 pm
If it is claimed that a 'cold wallet' has been 'hacked' then one or more of the following is true:
  • It was NOT a cold wallet
  • It was NOT hacked
  • The 'hack' involved someone having access to 'keys' by non-internet based means
  • Someone was so incredibly lucky that they managed to guess the private keys (not realistically feasible)

edit: this wasn't in response to your post @Ander.

It was a cold wallet that went hot to transfer funds to hot wallet, and the hacker was patiently waiting for this to happen. BTER had no idea their systems had been compromised and the hacker was waiting for them to bring the cold wallet online to make a transfer.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on February 15, 2015, 08:35:56 pm
Shapeshift just twitted

https://twitter.com/ShapeShift_io/status/567047121208360960

Quote
Due to BTER being hacked, #ShapeShift will not be able to do NBT, BTS or BitUSD transactions at this time. Stay tuned for updates.

That explains that at least.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: fuzzy on February 15, 2015, 08:40:15 pm
oh lord...the pain. 
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: graffenwalder on February 15, 2015, 08:41:29 pm
24/7 bitcoin news claim they know who is the hacker:
http://247cryptonews.com/bter-got-hacked-7000-bitcoins-stolen-7-different-accounts/
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: CryptoPrometheus on February 15, 2015, 08:42:17 pm
There is now only 1 central exchange (that has more than $2000/day volume) to buy and sell BitShares. This seems like a very precarious position.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: julian1 on February 15, 2015, 08:51:28 pm
There is now only 1 central exchange (that has more than $2000/day volume) to buy and sell BitShares. This seems like a very precarious position.

On the same note, there's a > 300 comment thread about bter leading /r/bitcoin. A couple mentions of decentralized exchanges, and no mention of Bitshares. We are invisible to the outside world.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: neo1344 on February 15, 2015, 09:03:17 pm
poloniex is still not proceeding any bts tx.where can l purchase Bitshares now?
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: speedy on February 15, 2015, 09:03:47 pm
On the same note, there's a > 300 comment thread about bter leading /r/bitcoin. A couple mentions of decentralized exchanges, and no mention of Bitshares. We are invisible to the outside world.

We need some phat volume in the BitBTC:BitUSD market, and we need to put that market chart up on bitshares.org. Then everyone will pay attention.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: mf-tzo on February 15, 2015, 09:07:43 pm
poloniex is still not proceeding any bts tx.where can l purchase Bitshares now?

Transfer your btc to bitbtc via
https://metaexchange.info/

and convert your bitbtc to bts...

alternative solution btc38 but no one knows when they will get hacked as well..
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Black Arrow on February 15, 2015, 09:08:49 pm
I've seen several posts stating that bitcoins were stolen and not bitshares and therefore customers with BTS balances at Bter should be ok, but I wonder if that's true. Assuming Bter isn't able to recover from this and goes into bankruptcy, isn't it likely that all of its deposits would be pooled and divided among all account holders/creditors rather than having just the customers with BTC balances bear the whole loss?
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: onceuponatime on February 15, 2015, 09:12:22 pm
I've seen several posts stating that bitcoins were stolen and not bitshares and therefore customers with BTS balances at Bter should be ok, but I wonder if that's true. Assuming Bter isn't able to recover from this and goes into bankruptcy, isn't it likely that all of its deposits would be pooled and divided among all account holders/creditors rather than having just the customers with BTC balances bear the whole loss?

That is likely one of the possibilities. We are in uncharted territory here.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: blahblah7up on February 15, 2015, 09:13:33 pm
There is now only 1 central exchange (that has more than $2000/day volume) to buy and sell BitShares. This seems like a very precarious position.

On the same note, there's a > 300 comment thread about bter leading /r/bitcoin. A couple mentions of decentralized exchanges, and no mention of Bitshares. We are invisible to the outside world.

I think there were comments about Bitshares on there.  And they were subsequently deleted.  I visited early on when there were only approx. 40 comments in the thread and there was already a little discussion between people saying they used Bitshares and now more people will probably use it now, etc.  It was positive mostly.  Someone mentioned 300% collateral and then someone else commented that in practice it is closer to 250%.

I can't be 100% positive it wasn't another thread which just didn't gain the momentum because I don't remember the precise title.  But I think it was that one.  In any case, I went back later to see how the conversation developed and was surprised not to find one mention of Bitshares there.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: mf-tzo on February 15, 2015, 09:25:10 pm
my estimate is that the hacker manages to sell 1,000 BTC and since he might be discovered (if not already) he will return the remaining 6,000 and maybe receive another 500 BTC from BTER and then the rest will be history..No alts will be affected and BTER will most probably do the right thing to its customers..BTC will rise again once the shock is over...

But let's prepare for a marketing about this...People should learn not to  leave much in centralized exchanges and trade within BTS. They will learn eventually one way or another I guess...


Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Ander on February 15, 2015, 09:32:23 pm
http://247cryptonews.com/bter-got-hacked-7000-bitcoins-stolen-7-different-accounts/
"
[UPDATE 2-15-2015 – 9:55 PM +2 UTC]

We have a suspect! With help from Franko Collective people who started as well to research on this horrible situation of BTER. His name is Woźniak Sebastian he is the guy that owns the server in Switzerland with the IP 46.28.204.193. Why do we believe it’s a suspect? Well, he seems to be a hacking & Bitcoin enthusiast having an article on Hacking9 & a profile on Bitcoin Foundation. Also, he scammed people in the past on Bitcointalk and has a scarce information on his Facebook account. We have a strong belief that in a way or other Wozniak Sebastian is implied in this hack. Until future investigation he will remain “suspect” and not guilty.
"
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: blahblah7up on February 15, 2015, 09:34:57 pm
Everything is faster in crypto!  Including justice!
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Shentist on February 15, 2015, 09:41:36 pm
poloniex is still not proceeding any bts tx.where can l purchase Bitshares now?

Transfer your btc to bitbtc via
https://metaexchange.info/

and convert your bitbtc to bts...

alternative solution btc38 but no one knows when they will get hacked as well..

thanks for mentioning us!

We will add more Assets in the near future and will increase the transferable amount. So we are trying to reduce the 3rd pary risk for all of you.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Akado on February 15, 2015, 09:46:53 pm
If i remember correctly someone on bitcointalk said we were missing an announcement thread. I think this comes in great timing. If it wasn't done already, it should be done to take maximum advantage of this situation.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: mf-tzo on February 15, 2015, 09:54:14 pm
Quote
thanks for mentioning us!

We will add more Assets in the near future and will increase the transferable amount. So we are trying to reduce the 3rd pary risk for all of you.

You are offering a great service so far and with the exhange rates that you offer this is just wow...
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: xeroc on February 15, 2015, 09:54:31 pm
People too often state that things should be done by someone .. wake up guys .. bitshares is decentralized .. so do it yourself .. once s.o. started plenty of people will join ..
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: wesphily on February 15, 2015, 10:00:09 pm
People too often state that things should be done by someone .. wake up guys .. bitshares is decentralized .. so do it yourself .. once s.o. started plenty of people will join ..

The company I work for has been trying to decentralize management. No more top down.

It has failed miserably. Things don't get done quickly (if at all). People who are leaders do all the work. Most people need direction or they just sit idle. The idea of decentralization sounds good but it is not a good mechanism for getting things done.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on February 15, 2015, 10:06:56 pm
People too often state that things should be done by someone .. wake up guys .. bitshares is decentralized .. so do it yourself .. once s.o. started plenty of people will join ..

I agree  +5%
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: neo1344 on February 15, 2015, 10:18:11 pm
seems that Poloniex resume trading BTS
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: konelectric on February 15, 2015, 10:52:36 pm
Went to https://blockchain.info/ and search my Bter public wallet address. It showed no activity on the 14th. Dose that mean my account there wasn't hacked?

Thanks, Pat
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: fluxer555 on February 15, 2015, 11:01:06 pm
Yes, however they will most likely spread their loss across all BTC accounts, and even possibly non-BTC accounts.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: LRENZ on February 15, 2015, 11:12:11 pm
About time we had an update from BTER. Lack of info and bad translations never helps matters like this  :-\
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Stan on February 15, 2015, 11:58:22 pm
If i remember correctly someone on bitcointalk said we were missing an announcement thread. I think this comes in great timing. If it wasn't done already, it should be done to take maximum advantage of this situation.

Well, I did just post this over on the puppies thread. 
I suppose someone could use this as the start of an announcement.
What else should it say?

Sad to see another centralized exchange get into trouble.  This hurts us all.

But this is also exactly what the BitShares Decentralized Exchange was designed to solve.  Even if you're not ready to invest in BitShares, you can still use its services to control your own destiny.

You run the exchange and control all your own keys!

You always keep your assets in your own wallet and you can then trade between them without anything leaving your wallet, accomplishing the same thing you do on centralized exchanges.  Instead of continuous 24x7 exposure of your assets to hackers on a centralized exchange, this now only happens for the few minutes you spend moving through a gateway or bridge (https://bitshares.org/resources/gateways) when you want to get your hands on the actual asset.

Most of the time, you don't really want the asset, you want the exposure to that asset's price characteristics.  So you hold market pegged bitAssets that track the value of other commodities and currencies. This lets you hop around between bitUSD, bitGold, bitCNY, bitSilver, bitEUR, bitBTC and BTS without leaving your BitShares wallet.  This set will grow, but that's a pretty good mix for trading against big movements in crypto vs. fiat.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dNl6GA7j_Jk/VMt1YBOx4WI/AAAAAAAADUE/ZCH3dWGU0wI/s1600/bitassets.png)


And it stays in your own wallet where moths and rust do not consume and thieves don't break in to steal.

The chances of a hacker timing their hack to the moment you are using a centralized gateway to move in and out of the BitShares Decentralized Exchange is vanishingly small.  And you can pick your gateway at the last minute from a growing list of options.

This way, you can quickly move from the BitShares Decentralized Exchange into your favorite leading coin just in time to spend it.

And earn a bit of interest in the mean time.

Details here (http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2vz1zq/its_now_officialbtercom_was_hackedlost_7170_btc/comjbit) on reddit.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: santaclause102 on February 16, 2015, 12:03:47 am
If i remember correctly someone on bitcointalk said we were missing an announcement thread. I think this comes in great timing. If it wasn't done already, it should be done to take maximum advantage of this situation.

Well, I did just post this over on the puppies thread. 
I suppose someone could use this as the start of an announcement.
What else should it say?

Sad to see another centralized exchange get into trouble.  This hurts us all.

But this is also exactly what the BitShares Decentralized Exchange was designed to solve.  Even if you're not ready to invest in BitShares, you can still use its services to control your own destiny.

You run the exchange and control all your own keys!

You always keep your assets in your own wallet and you can then trade between them without anything leaving your wallet, accomplishing the same thing you do on centralized exchanges.  Instead of continuous 24x7 exposure of your assets to hackers on a centralized exchange, this now only happens for the few minutes you spend moving through a gateway or bridge when you want to get your hands on the actual asset.

Most of the time, you don't really want the asset, you want the exposure to that asset's price characteristics.  So you hold bitAssets in your own wallet and hop around between bitUSD, bitGold, bitCNY, bitSilver, bitEUR, bitBTC and BTS.  This set will grow, but that's a pretty good mix for trading against big movements in crypto vs. fiat.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dNl6GA7j_Jk/VMt1YBOx4WI/AAAAAAAADUE/ZCH3dWGU0wI/s1600/bitassets.png)


And it stays in your own wallet where moths and rust do not consume and thieves don't break in to steal.

The chances of a hacker timing their hack to the moment you are using a centralized gateway to move in and out of the BitShares Decentralized Exchange is vanishingly small.  And you can pick your gateway at the last minute from a growing list of options.

This way, you can quickly move from the BitShares Decentralized Exchange into your favorite leading coin just in time to spend it.

And earn a bit of interest in the mean time.

A central BitShares thread on Bitcointalk would be cool, like Counterparty has one: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=395761.0
The OP would contain a description of what BitShares is about: For example all the features out "coin" has plus links to blog posts and videos that go more into the philosophy of Bitshares.

The over time it can be used for new announcement (like the stuff that also goes onto facebook and twitter).

Would certainly generate continuous traffic. 
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: merlin0113 on February 16, 2015, 12:06:10 am
If i remember correctly someone on bitcointalk said we were missing an announcement thread. I think this comes in great timing. If it wasn't done already, it should be done to take maximum advantage of this situation.

Well, I did just post this over on the puppies thread. 
I suppose someone could use this as the start of an announcement.
What else should it say?

Sad to see another centralized exchange get into trouble.  This hurts us all.

But this is also exactly what the BitShares Decentralized Exchange was designed to solve.  Even if you're not ready to invest in BitShares, you can still use its services to control your own destiny.

You run the exchange and control all your own keys!

You always keep your assets in your own wallet and you can then trade between them without anything leaving your wallet, accomplishing the same thing you do on centralized exchanges.  Instead of continuous 24x7 exposure of your assets to hackers on a centralized exchange, this now only happens for the few minutes you spend moving through a gateway or bridge when you want to get your hands on the actual asset.

Most of the time, you don't really want the asset, you want the exposure to that asset's price characteristics.  So you hold bitAssets in your own wallet and hop around between bitUSD, bitGold, bitCNY, bitSilver, bitEUR, bitBTC and BTS.  This set will grow, but that's a pretty good mix for trading against big movements in crypto vs. fiat.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dNl6GA7j_Jk/VMt1YBOx4WI/AAAAAAAADUE/ZCH3dWGU0wI/s1600/bitassets.png)


And it stays in your own wallet where moths and rust do not consume and thieves don't break in to steal.

The chances of a hacker timing their hack to the moment you are using a centralized gateway to move in and out of the BitShares Decentralized Exchange is vanishingly small.  And you can pick your gateway at the last minute from a growing list of options.

This way, you can quickly move from the BitShares Decentralized Exchange into your favorite leading coin just in time to spend it.

And earn a bit of interest in the mean time.



Is "gateway" or "bridge" refered here https://bitshares.org/resources/gateways legal in your country?
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: Akado on February 16, 2015, 12:19:34 am
If i remember correctly someone on bitcointalk said we were missing an announcement thread. I think this comes in great timing. If it wasn't done already, it should be done to take maximum advantage of this situation.

Well, I did just post this over on the puppies thread. 
I suppose someone could use this as the start of an announcement.
What else should it say?

Sad to see another centralized exchange get into trouble.  This hurts us all.

But this is also exactly what the BitShares Decentralized Exchange was designed to solve.  Even if you're not ready to invest in BitShares, you can still use its services to control your own destiny.

You run the exchange and control all your own keys!

You always keep your assets in your own wallet and you can then trade between them without anything leaving your wallet, accomplishing the same thing you do on centralized exchanges.  Instead of continuous 24x7 exposure of your assets to hackers on a centralized exchange, this now only happens for the few minutes you spend moving through a gateway or bridge (https://bitshares.org/resources/gateways) when you want to get your hands on the actual asset.

Most of the time, you don't really want the asset, you want the exposure to that asset's price characteristics.  So you hold bitAssets in your own wallet and hop around between bitUSD, bitGold, bitCNY, bitSilver, bitEUR, bitBTC and BTS.  This set will grow, but that's a pretty good mix for trading against big movements in crypto vs. fiat.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dNl6GA7j_Jk/VMt1YBOx4WI/AAAAAAAADUE/ZCH3dWGU0wI/s1600/bitassets.png)


And it stays in your own wallet where moths and rust do not consume and thieves don't break in to steal.

The chances of a hacker timing their hack to the moment you are using a centralized gateway to move in and out of the BitShares Decentralized Exchange is vanishingly small.  And you can pick your gateway at the last minute from a growing list of options.

This way, you can quickly move from the BitShares Decentralized Exchange into your favorite leading coin just in time to spend it.

And earn a bit of interest in the mean time.


I like your approach. That is something we need to emphasize on because most people don't get it. The fact that you don't need to invest in BitShares. You don't need to own bts to be safe from the volatility of other cryptos or to avoid loosing funds to a centralized exchange. You can just hold the bitAssets you want for as long as you want until you decide to cash out or trade again. Most people, however, don't see it that way. They immediately think that just because bitshares is mentioned, it's propaganda and we're trying to make them invest. They really don't need to. People need to understand they can be safe without ever having to risk investing in bitshares.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: starspirit on February 16, 2015, 12:32:45 am
BitAssets depend on the existence of centralised exchanges for their price feeds. If the market moved away from centralised exchanges to decentralised exchanges for certain assets such as bitcoin, do the corresponding bitAssets become obsolete?
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: santaclause102 on February 16, 2015, 12:48:57 am
BitAssets depend on the existence of centralised exchanges for their price feeds. If the market moved away from centralised exchanges to decentralised exchanges for certain assets such as bitcoin, do the corresponding bitAssets become obsolete?
A price feed reflects the exchange rates of two assets. All that is required is some market place where such ex. rates are established. That can also be on a decentralized exchange.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: arhag on February 16, 2015, 12:51:25 am
BitAssets depend on the existence of centralised exchanges for their price feeds. If the market moved away from centralised exchanges to decentralised exchanges for certain assets such as bitcoin, do the corresponding bitAssets become obsolete?

No, the price feed would come from the markets on the DEX that trade against bitcoin gateway tokens instead. For example GATEBTC trading against BTS on the BitShares decentralized exchange can give us BTS/BTC price feed for BitBTC. Later we would have USD gateways as well which would trade against BTS on our exchange.

Now in that case the counterparty risk has moved from the exchange to the gateway provider, but we can sufficiently decentralize the gateway provider for cryptocurrencies through delegate multisig. For fiat gateways there isn't much you can do to reduce your counterparty risk exposure other than not holding too much or for too long (just enough for the order books and until your order is matched).

Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: starspirit on February 16, 2015, 01:18:54 am
Thanks delulo, arhag. Common point being there would still be some form of external reference available.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: bitAndy on February 16, 2015, 03:04:39 am
Has there been any development on creating bitalts such as bitripple, bitnxt etc? Then we can compete with the altcoin exchanges?
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: mitao on February 16, 2015, 03:39:02 am
Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: fluxer555 on February 16, 2015, 03:44:45 am
Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?

I'm guessing that would be very expensive...
Title: Re: Bter hacked and lost 7170 BTC. 720 BTC bounty offered to get it back.
Post by: carpet ride on February 16, 2015, 05:11:44 am

Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?

I'm guessing that would be very expensive...

not so expensive if they are bankrupt... What do they have that would be most valuable to us , maybe just need their licenses/compliance arrangements


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: jsidhu on February 16, 2015, 05:19:44 am
Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?
Would take atleast 500 btc and then we can create assets for all alts and hopefully decentralize it and have users come back.. Could be interesting... Wonder if bm would be interested it would be a big splash
Title: Re: Bter hacked and lost 7170 BTC. 720 BTC bounty offered to get it back.
Post by: cube on February 16, 2015, 05:31:34 am

Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?

I'm guessing that would be very expensive...

not so expensive if they are bankrupt... What do they have that would be most valuable to us , maybe just need their licenses/compliance arrangements


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, their  licenses/compliance records. And their experiences in operating an exchange!

Could our business dev Gentso1 sounds out Bter about a possible deal?  If the deal is affordable to bitshares, we should take it up.  This solves a big headache - fiat on/off-ramp.  I believe a huge marketing buzz would follow.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: klosure on February 16, 2015, 05:52:43 am
You can just hold the bitAssets you want for as long as you want until you decide to cash out or trade again. Most people, however, don't see it that way. They immediately think that just because bitshares is mentioned, it's propaganda and we're trying to make them invest. They really don't need to. People need to understand they can be safe without ever having to risk investing in bitshares.
Ripple has been struggling with the very same perception problem since inception and it seems that it's a hard problem: people keep missing the forest for the tree and keep focalizing on XRP distribution although the Ripple community is putting the stress on *using* Ripple as exchange as opposed to investing in XRP. The Bitcoin community in particular seems to have a very very short attention span and a severe tentency to overreact and refuse to reassess beliefs so changing perception is near impossible.
Title: Re: Bter hacked and lost 7170 BTC. 720 BTC bounty offered to get it back.
Post by: merlin0113 on February 16, 2015, 06:00:48 am

Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?

I'm guessing that would be very expensive...

not so expensive if they are bankrupt... What do they have that would be most valuable to us , maybe just need their licenses/compliance arrangements


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

During the latest telephone interview with Bter CEO Han Lin, he said that this 7000+ BTC is all of their BTC cold storage reserve, now they end up with 200 BTC in their other hot wallet atm. Also he commented the hacker has been very professional, so it's hard to trace him and reclaim the lost fund.

Right now they still have no idea what method the hacker used to hack, as a result they still suspend all altcoin wallets because they don't want to risk it.
Title: Re: Bter hacked and lost 7170 BTC. 720 BTC bounty to get it back.
Post by: jsidhu on February 16, 2015, 06:06:57 am
anyone would look professional to someone who risks $1.5m dollars moving cold waller funds without multisig.. I wonder why they even needed to get coins out of cold wallet in the first place
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: klosure on February 16, 2015, 06:08:43 am
Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?

I'm guessing that would be very expensive...
7170 BTCs minus reserves if any. But then future profits could be paid as dividends to shareholders to compensate for the massive sharedilution that would be necessary to bail out BTER.
Not sure how willing shareholders would be to do such acquisition. Personnaly I would throw a bunch of money in support of the price if this happens as Bitshares would suddenly become a major player in the crypto space and it would get a very positive image for saving the day.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: sumantso on February 16, 2015, 06:16:59 am
Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?

I'm guessing that would be very expensive...
7170 BTCs minus reserves if any. But then future profits could be paid as dividends to shareholders to compensate for the massive sharedilution that would be necessary to bail out BTER.
Not sure how willing shareholders would be to do such acquisition. Personnaly I would throw a bunch of money in support of the price if this happens as Bitshares would suddenly become a major player in the crypto space and it would get a very positive image for saving the day.

It won't be a 7170 BTC bailout, that money is gone. What they can expect is some compensation. Maybe they are offered some assets in lieu which entitles them to a portion of the income.

One benefit for us would be the snapshot/vested balance issue.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: klosure on February 16, 2015, 06:27:16 am
Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?

I'm guessing that would be very expensive...
7170 BTCs minus reserves if any. But then future profits could be paid as dividends to shareholders to compensate for the massive sharedilution that would be necessary to bail out BTER.
Not sure how willing shareholders would be to do such acquisition. Personnaly I would throw a bunch of money in support of the price if this happens as Bitshares would suddenly become a major player in the crypto space and it would get a very positive image for saving the day.

It won't be a 7170 BTC bailout, that money is gone. What they can expect is some compensation. Maybe they are offered some assets in lieu which entitles them to a portion of the income.

One benefit for us would be the snapshot/vested balance issue.
Their business is potentially worth much more than 7170 BTC and they would have no problem raising that much from a VC. 2M USD is pocket change for a VC. As a long time partner of BTER Bitshares is in a great position to close a deal first but we shouldn't ruin that opportunity by making a low ball offer.
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: btcxyzzz on February 16, 2015, 06:29:42 am
Quote
i have no bts on bter. but i have to say it is because our client is not usable. Most the people can not install the client or sync.

Exactly my case! And because of that, I moved my BTS to Bter and you see what happened. Client needs to get fixed ASAP.
Title: Re: Bter hacked and lost 7170 BTC. 720 BTC bounty offered to get it back.
Post by: cube on February 16, 2015, 06:33:54 am

During the latest telephone interview with Bter CEO Han Lin, he said that this 7000+ BTC is all of their BTC cold storage reserve, now they end up with 200 BTC in their other hot wallet atm. Also he commented the hacker has been very professional, so it's hard to trace him and reclaim the lost fund.

Right now they still have no idea what method the hacker used to hack, as a result they still suspend all altcoin wallets because they don't want to risk it.

Do you have the source of the interview?
Title: Re: Bter suspended
Post by: merlin0113 on February 16, 2015, 06:34:08 am
Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?

I'm guessing that would be very expensive...
7170 BTCs minus reserves if any. But then future profits could be paid as dividends to shareholders to compensate for the massive sharedilution that would be necessary to bail out BTER.
Not sure how willing shareholders would be to do such acquisition. Personnaly I would throw a bunch of money in support of the price if this happens as Bitshares would suddenly become a major player in the crypto space and it would get a very positive image for saving the day.

It won't be a 7170 BTC bailout, that money is gone. What they can expect is some compensation. Maybe they are offered some assets in lieu which entitles them to a portion of the income.

One benefit for us would be the snapshot/vested balance issue.
Their business is potentially worth much more than 7170 BTC and they would have no problem raising that much from a VC. 2M USD is pocket change for a VC. As a long time partner of BTER Bitshares is in a great position to close a deal first but we shouldn't ruin that opportunity by making a low ball offer.

A share dilution to support shorting 7170 bitBTC won't even affect the BTS price since the created BTS will be immediately locked in as collateral so it won't inflate the money supply.

To my knowledge Bter is a branch company to a big company. So it's complicated to bail out it.
Title: Re: Bter hacked and lost 7170 BTC. 720 BTC bounty to get it back.
Post by: sumantso on February 16, 2015, 06:34:25 am
Their business is potentially worth much more than 7170 BTC and they would have no problem raising that much from a VC. 2M USD is pocket change for a VC. As a long time partner of BTER Bitshares is in a great position to close a deal first but we shouldn't ruin that opportunity by making a low ball offer.

A share dilution to support shorting 7170 bitBTC won't even affect the BTS price since the created BTS will be immediately locked in as collateral so it won't inflate the money supply.

It will need a 10% inflation at the current prices. the main issue though would be about running it. Will we be getting competent delegates to run it? BitShares is a decentralized movement and running an exchange directly doesn't seem to fit well, especially since we believe that if we are successful we won't need actual centralized exchanges.

How much of licensing they have anyway? CNY is possible through tradebts, and I doubt Bter has any USD licenses.
Title: Re: Bter hacked and lost 7170 BTC. 720 BTC bounty offered to get it back.
Post by: merlin0113 on February 16, 2015, 06:39:04 am

During the latest telephone interview with Bter CEO Han Lin, he said that this 7000+ BTC is all of their BTC cold storage reserve, now they end up with 200 BTC in their other hot wallet atm. Also he commented the hacker has been very professional, so it's hard to trace him and reclaim the lost fund.

Right now they still have no idea what method the hacker used to hack, as a result they still suspend all altcoin wallets because they don't want to risk it.

Do you have the source of the interview?

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XODk0MzcwNTEy.html?sharefrom=iphone
But it's in Chinese.
Title: Re: Bter hacked and lost 7170 BTC. 720 BTC bounty to get it back.
Post by: klosure on February 16, 2015, 07:11:56 am
Their business is potentially worth much more than 7170 BTC and they would have no problem raising that much from a VC. 2M USD is pocket change for a VC. As a long time partner of BTER Bitshares is in a great position to close a deal first but we shouldn't ruin that opportunity by making a low ball offer.

A share dilution to support shorting 7170 bitBTC won't even affect the BTS price since the created BTS will be immediately locked in as collateral so it won't inflate the money supply.

It will need a 10% inflation at the current prices. the main issue though would be about running it. Will we be getting competent delegates to run it? BitShares is a decentralized movement and running an exchange directly doesn't seem to fit well, especially since we believe that if we are successful we won't need actual centralized exchanges.

How much of licensing they have anyway? CNY is possible through tradebts, and I doubt Bter has any USD licenses.
We can create a new DAC with 1:1 mapping of stake to real shares of the BTER company, which means that one unit of BTER stake entitles to the dividends of one unit of real BTER company shares and to one vote at the board. Thanks to that mapping, you can keep running BTER as a normal company and progressively DACify the management process as the ecosystem and management tools gets more mature. Meanwhile the shareholders can elect delegates to represent the DAC at BTER board.

Recapitalization of BTER can then be done without a share dilution. We can just organize a crowd sale of BTER shares so interested parties can invest in BTER. That way Bitshares isn't directly affected by the acquisition but still gets the benefits of having a large on/off-ramp tighly integrated in the eco-system. Holders of balances at BTER can elect to participate to the crowdsale at preferential rate and redeem BTER stake in lieue of their currency balance. This would help reducing further the pressure of the loss.

That would be a very exciting opportunity and it would feel very reassuring for BTER users to know that the exchange is now operated under tight control from a Bitshares DAC and cold wallets are controlled by delegates using multisig. For Bitshares the benefit is enormous as we can make bitAssets a central element of the trading books and ensure that bitAsset markets are getting always more liquidity until the point where the peg is so tight that we can start accepting 1:1 deposit / withdrawal between BTER balances and corresponding BitAssets.
Title: Re: Bter hacked and lost 7170BTC. 720BTC bounty to get it back.
Post by: graffenwalder on February 16, 2015, 07:23:08 am
Really? Who in their right minds would want to invest in BTER?
BTER is done for, this is their final blow.

Reviving BTER for BTS purposes, is gonna hurt BTS even more.
Title: Re: Bter hacked and lost 7170BTC. 720BTC bounty to get it back.
Post by: Method-X on February 16, 2015, 07:28:47 am
Really? Who in their right minds would want to invest in BTER?
BTER is done for, this is their final blow.

Reviving BTER for BTS purposes, is gonna hurt BTS even more.

 +5% Yeah... worst idea ever. A decentralized exchange buys a failed centralized exchange because...?
Title: Re: Bter hacked and lost 7170BTC. 720BTC bounty to get it back.
Post by: klosure on February 16, 2015, 07:32:25 am
Really? Who in their right minds would want to invest in BTER?
BTER is done for, this is their final blow.

Reviving BTER for BTS purposes, is gonna hurt BTS even more.

 +5% Yeah... worst idea ever. A decentralized exchange buys a failed centralized exchange because...?
Because it would become completely irrelevant without an on/off-ramp to the real world.
Because 2M USD to buy a huge user base is a very good deal.
Because that would be the best marketing and PR movement ever in crypto history.

Bitshares will fail if BTER fails.
Mark my words.

It's not like if Bitshares was visible and widely sought after out there.  Time to awake people. If you are not deeply concerned about the implications of BTER's situation for the future of Bitshares a reality check is overdue.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: klosure on February 16, 2015, 07:41:28 am
Created a thread to discuss this further. Please post your replies there and let's keep this thread to discuss the evolution of the situation at BTER.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=14311.0 (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=14311.0)
Title: Re: Bter hacked and lost 7170BTC. 720BTC bounty to get it back.
Post by: merlin0113 on February 16, 2015, 07:44:09 am
Really? Who in their right minds would want to invest in BTER?
BTER is done for, this is their final blow.

Reviving BTER for BTS purposes, is gonna hurt BTS even more.

 +5% Yeah... worst idea ever. A decentralized exchange buys a failed centralized exchange because...?
Because it would become completely irrelevant without an on/off-ramp to the real world.
Because 2M USD to buy a huge user base is a very good deal.
Because that would be the best marketing and PR movement ever in crypto history.

Bitshares will fail if BTER fails.
Mark my words.

It's not like if Bitshares was visible and widely sought after out there.  Time to awake people. If you are not deeply concerned about the implications of BTER's situation for the future of Bitshares a reality check is overdue.

If a seasoned exchange like Bter won't make a qualified on & off ramp in your eyes, which one could?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: cube on February 16, 2015, 07:44:20 am

If a seasoned exchange like Bter won't make a qualified on & off ramp in your eyes, which one could?

 +5%

Bter has been forthcoming  and recovered well from their NXT hacked.  Now they are facing their second crisis but yet again they are forthcoming  with updates.  Bter has a good following of Chinese community.  Bter was a big exchange for bts before the hack.  If Bter does well, BTS does well too. 

Bter has real world licenses that could be used to perform fiat <-> bts and fiat <-> bitUSD/bitCNY ie on/off-ramp.  If BTS buy out Bter, it gives a big boost to bter (ie increase confidence in their finances) and a huge marketing buzz to BTS  (finally a on/off-ramp!).   This solves a big problem for BTS. Win-Win. 

Title: Re: Bter hacked and lost 7170BTC. 720BTC bounty to get it back.
Post by: fav on February 16, 2015, 07:44:42 am
Really? Who in their right minds would want to invest in BTER?
BTER is done for, this is their final blow.

Reviving BTER for BTS purposes, is gonna hurt BTS even more.

 +5% Yeah... worst idea ever. A decentralized exchange buys a failed centralized exchange because...?
Because it would become completely irrelevant without an on/off-ramp to the real world.
Because 2M USD to buy a huge user base is a very good deal.
Because that would be the best marketing and PR movement ever in crypto history.

Bitshares will fail if BTER fails.
Mark my words.

It's not like if Bitshares was visible and widely sought after out there.  Time to awake people. If you are not deeply concerned about the implications of BTER's situation for the future of Bitshares a reality check is overdue.

Fully agree. I don't like bter, but it's needed for bts.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: Frodo on February 16, 2015, 07:47:37 am

If a seasoned exchange like Bter won't make a qualified on & off ramp in your eyes, which one could?

 +5%

Bter has been forthcoming  and recovered well from their NXT hacked.  Now they are facing their second crisis but yet again they are forthcoming  with updates.  Bter has a good following of Chinese community.  Bter was a big exchange for bts before the hack.  If Bter does well, BTS does well too. 

Bter has real world licenses that could be used to perform fiat <-> bts and fiat <-> bitUSD/bitCNY ie on/off-ramp.  If BTS buy out Bter, it gives a big boost to bter (ie increase confidence in their finances) and a huge marketing buzz to BTS  (finally a on/off-ramp!).   This solves a big problem for BTS. Win-Win.

Agreed. BTER as on/off-ramp would be epic. Their sevice was always good and reliable.
Title: Re: Bter hacked and lost 7170BTC. 720BTC bounty to get it back.
Post by: graffenwalder on February 16, 2015, 07:55:00 am
Really? Who in their right minds would want to invest in BTER?
BTER is done for, this is their final blow.

Reviving BTER for BTS purposes, is gonna hurt BTS even more.

 +5% Yeah... worst idea ever. A decentralized exchange buys a failed centralized exchange because...?
Because it would become completely irrelevant without an on/off-ramp to the real world.
Because 2M USD to buy a huge user base is a very good deal.
Because that would be the best marketing and PR movement ever in crypto history.

Bitshares will fail if BTER fails.
Mark my words.

It's not like if Bitshares was visible and widely sought after out there.  Time to awake people. If you are not deeply concerned about the implications of BTER's situation for the future of Bitshares a reality check is overdue.
Ofcourse this whole BTER mess is a serious blow for BTS.
I still think this is a delusional solution, and I really hope, that the community will have the sense to call this off.

Ok we are now short one on/off ramp, a rather large one, but there are more, and more are in the works as we speak.
2 million to buy a huge user base. You still think this will be a huge user base after this?
For marketing and PR we would hit most crypto news sites for sure. But is this the kind of marketing an PR we need? We are sending out an message that a decentralised exchange fully depends on central exchanges to operate.

Seriously the reality check is on your end. We have to take our losses and move on, without BTER. Nobody will care if BTER is run by a DAC, except this community.
Title: Re: Bter hacked and lost 7170BTC. 720BTC bounty to get it back.
Post by: cube on February 16, 2015, 08:02:40 am
Ofcourse this whole BTER mess is a serious blow for BTS.
I still think this is a delusional solution, and I really hope, that the community will have the sense to call this off.

Ok we are now short one on/off ramp, a rather large one, but there are more, and more are in the works as we speak.
2 million to buy a huge user base. You still think this will be a huge user base after this?
For marketing and PR we would hit most crypto news sites for sure. But is this the kind of marketing an PR we need? We are sending out an message that a decentralised exchange fully depends on central exchanges to operate.

Seriously the reality check is on your end. We have to take our losses and move on, without BTER. Nobody will care if BTER is run by a DAC, except this community.

We may not need to pay 2M for a deal. If we could work out a good deal with Bter, perhaps in the region of a few hundred BTCs to entice the thief to return funds, we could get licenses to put up an on/off ramp, bter's user base, its 2-year experiences in exchange running, its good reputation with the Chinese community.  We need a good business dev (Gentso1) to start the negotiation though.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: Troglodactyl on February 16, 2015, 08:09:31 am

If a seasoned exchange like Bter won't make a qualified on & off ramp in your eyes, which one could?

 +5%

Bter has been forthcoming  and recovered well from their NXT hacked.  Now they are facing their second crisis but yet again they are forthcoming  with updates.  Bter has a good following of Chinese community.  Bter was a big exchange for bts before the hack.  If Bter does well, BTS does well too. 

Bter has real world licenses that could be used to perform fiat <-> bts and fiat <-> bitUSD/bitCNY ie on/off-ramp.  If BTS buy out Bter, it gives a big boost to bter (ie increase confidence in their finances) and a huge marketing buzz to BTS  (finally a on/off-ramp!).   This solves a big problem for BTS. Win-Win.

BTER's USD was all frozen even before the hack, so they weren't a direct USD on-ramp at all.  Is the hack supposed to help fix that somehow?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: cube on February 16, 2015, 08:26:00 am

BTER's USD was all frozen even before the hack, so they weren't a direct USD on-ramp at all.  Is the hack supposed to help fix that somehow?

We would need to do our due diligence if we indeed wanted to buy bter.  Questions like why Bter's USD was frozen? Can they unfreeze it? Can their licenses be used for USD, CNY and what other fiats? 

But first, we need the see the value proposition and then agree/disagree on moving forward with helping bter.
Title: Re: Bter hacked and lost 7170BTC. 720BTC bounty to get it back.
Post by: klosure on February 16, 2015, 08:27:21 am
Ok we are now short one on/off ramp, a rather large one, but there are more, and more are in the works as we speak.
That on/off ramp is 50% of our customer base. You have just no idea how badly this will hurt the demand for bit assets and BTS. Our market cap will drop by much more than 2M if BTER goes belly up.

2 million to buy a huge user base. You still think this will be a huge user base after this?
If BTER is put under decentralized dac-based management and cold wallet access moved to delegate controlled multisign, this will be a first in crypto history and I would be very surprised if the user base doesn't actually become bigger.

For marketing and PR we would hit most crypto news sites for sure. But is this the kind of marketing an PR we need?
Yes. 100 times Yes. Bitshares has been a marketing non-event since inception. We direly need to start to exist as something news worthy in the mind of our target customer base. Yes this will cost 20x Brian Page's yearly salary, but this will do 1000x time the effect all at once. It's not even speculation: by owning BTER, you effectively have all the altcoin community as a userbase and they'll keeping hearing about Bitshares every time they login to BTER.

We are sending out an message that a decentralised exchange fully depends on central exchanges to operate.
No, we are sending the message that we are a big player capable of acquiring companies, and have an influence in the real world. Being decentralized doesn't mean being completely cut from the real world. That's autism, not decentralization.

Seriously the reality check is on your end.
We shall see.
Hint: there is a reason why NXT almost considered a rollback last time BTER got hacked and strayed involve until a solution was found.

We have to take our losses and move on, without BTER. Nobody will care if BTER is run by a DAC, except this community.
Right, none of the thousands of altcoiners who have balances in BTER will appreciate to find out that they haven't lost their balance after all, and none of them will be interested to know that the cold wallets are becoming multisign and management is transparent, and none of the news outlet will relay that. We must definitely live in a very different reality.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: Troglodactyl on February 16, 2015, 08:32:44 am

BTER's USD was all frozen even before the hack, so they weren't a direct USD on-ramp at all.  Is the hack supposed to help fix that somehow?

We would need to do our due diligence if we indeed wanted to buy bter.  Questions like why Bter's USD was frozen? Can they unfreeze it? Can their licenses be used for USD, CNY and what other fiats? 

But first, we need the see the value proposition and then agree/disagree on moving forward with helping bter.

They only supported USD through a single third party payment processor - EgoPay, and then they killed even that.  So basically they used a centralized gateway on-ramp onto their centralized exchange.  We already have a decentralized exchange and need an onramp, and they had a centralized exchange and needed an onramp.

The only thing they had that I used was onramp from BTC and other crypto to BTS and bitAssets.

EDIT: I just noticed Bittrex.com has BTS.  Does anyone have experience with them?
Title: Re: Bter hacked and lost 7170BTC. 720BTC bounty to get it back.
Post by: klosure on February 16, 2015, 08:41:35 am
We may not need to pay 2M for a deal.
I agree but for a different reason. We won't end up paying 2M because other actors will be interested in taking a stake in BTER as well. BTER founders themselves certainly won't want to be completely out, and they must have investors, not to mention risk takers in the crypto community at large. What matters is that the IPO itself be done as a Bitshares DAC.

If we could work out a good deal with Bter, perhaps in the region of a few hundred BTCs to entice the thief to return funds.
This time the thief won't return the funds. Last time, the money stollen was in NXT and BTER was the only exchange with actual liquidity and had stopped operations, so the hacker had no way of converting his loot to fiat. If you followed what happened, he traded 85% of his NXT stash for a couple hundred BTCs and then stopped. The reason for that is obvious: after giving back 85% of the NXT, BTER was going to resume operations, and NXT would survive, so the hacker would be able to launder his remaining 15% stash later on.  This time around, the hacker is holding the most liquid crypto around, and has a wide variety of tools to launder the funds and many outlets to cash out. He has no incentrive to return the funds unless he gets doxxed.
So it's safer to assume that BTER won't get back the funds, and is going to go belly up. We should start thinking what that means for Bitshares, and act before it's too late.

we could get licenses to put up an on/off ramp, bter's user base, its 2-year experiences in exchange running, its good reputation with the Chinese community.  We need a good business dev (Gentso1) to start the negotiation though.
Exactly. BTER is very valuable and 2M isn't that much money in fact. Coinbase has raised 78M in their last round of fund raising, and you would have a hard time finding an established exchange that doesn't raise funds to the tune of millions.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: merlin0113 on February 16, 2015, 08:50:45 am
According to this article, exchanges would be potential gateways. But they are not becoming even one. Why is that?
http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/update/2014/12/18/Benefits-of-Being-a-BitShares-Gateway/
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: cube on February 16, 2015, 08:57:54 am

They only supported USD through a single third party payment processor - EgoPay, and then they killed even that.  So basically they used a centralized gateway on-ramp onto their centralized exchange.  We already have a decentralized exchange and need an onramp, and they had a centralized exchange and needed an onramp.

The only thing they had that I used was onramp from BTC and other crypto to BTS and bitAssets.

If that is true, USD is out. We are left with BTC and CNY on-ramps?  Someone with the info can fill in the gap.
Title: Re: Bter hacked and lost 7170BTC. 720BTC bounty to get it back.
Post by: cube on February 16, 2015, 09:10:14 am
If BTER is put under decentralized dac-based management and cold wallet access moved to delegate controlled multisign, this will be a first in crypto history and I would be very surprised if the user base doesn't actually become bigger.

A First-in-history delegate-controlled multisign cold wallet. This sounds like a good marketing buzz for bitshare.

Yes. 100 times Yes. Bitshares has been a marketing non-event since inception. We direly need to start to exist as something news worthy in the mind of our target customer base. Yes this will cost 20x Brian Page's yearly salary, but this will do 1000x time the effect all at once. It's not even speculation: by owning BTER, you effectively have all the altcoin community as a userbase and they'll keeping hearing about Bitshares every time they login to BTER.

Yes, if we could pay Brian Page that much money, investing (a portion) into a Bter-generated-marketing buzz does not seems so costly after all.

No, we are sending the message that we are a big player capable of acquiring companies, and have an influence in the real world. Being decentralized doesn't mean being completely cut from the real world. That's autism, not decentralization.

"A Decentralised Company Is Making Acqusition and Merger!"

Another first in history.

We shall see.
Hint: there is a reason why NXT almost considered a rollback last time BTER got hacked and strayed involve until a solution was found.

Yes, nothing wrong with having a board meeting (of a Decentralised Company) among shareholders to discuss bitshares acquisition and merger.

Right, none of the thousands of altcoiners who have balances in BTER will appreciate to find out that they haven't lost their balance after all, and none of them will be interested to know that the cold wallets are becoming multisign and management is transparent, and none of the news outlet will relay that. We must definitely live in a very different reality.

Yes, investing in Bter also means acquiring the many Bter users who would be grateful to Bitshares' gift to Bter's revival.

Acquiring BTER is bold. It's a bet. It's wild. But if we can't get around thinking of doing things like that, Bitshares won't even be a side noted in history books covering the crypto era.

 +5%
Excellent marketing and investment opportunity here.  Is it time to Think Big?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on February 16, 2015, 01:04:14 pm
If we are going to raise millions for something.. it's not going to be to buy out someone else right now.. that money is better spent in the development of our own ecosystem. I use the word 'development' in the largest sense of the word too.. from marketing to coding.

How about betting on your own horse that has a running chance instead of wanting to put your money behind the one with the broken leg?

Love the enthusiasm about the opportunity..  +5% I just think it's misdirected.. our enthusiasm should be getting translated into well targeted messaging and invites to the rest of the world welcoming them to decentralization.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: ag on February 16, 2015, 01:24:00 pm

If a seasoned exchange like Bter won't make a qualified on & off ramp in your eyes, which one could?

 +5%

Bter has been forthcoming  and recovered well from their NXT hacked.  Now they are facing their second crisis but yet again they are forthcoming  with updates.  Bter has a good following of Chinese community.  Bter was a big exchange for bts before the hack.  If Bter does well, BTS does well too. 

Bter has real world licenses that could be used to perform fiat <-> bts and fiat <-> bitUSD/bitCNY ie on/off-ramp.  If BTS buy out Bter, it gives a big boost to bter (ie increase confidence in their finances) and a huge marketing buzz to BTS  (finally a on/off-ramp!).   This solves a big problem for BTS. Win-Win.

Agreed. BTER as on/off-ramp would be epic. Their sevice was always good and reliable.

Snapswap, Coinbase, and Circle are all better on/off ramps than Bter in my opinion. Coinbase and Circle have professional KYC protocol and allow instant btc buys with credit card with daily / weekly limits. Snapswap uses KnoxPayments to let you make instant bank deposits of $300 per day at 1% fee from more than 15 major banks, onto the ripple network in USD.snapswap. And Snapswap also lets make withdrawals from the ripple network directly to a paypal account.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: CalabiYau on February 16, 2015, 01:34:22 pm
If we are going to raise millions for something.. it's not going to be to buy out someone else right now.. that money is better spent in the development of our own ecosystem. I use the word 'development' in the largest sense of the word too.. from marketing to coding.

How about betting on your own horse that has a running chance instead of wanting to put your money behind the one with the broken leg?

Love the enthusiasm about the opportunity..  +5% I just think it's misdirected.. our enthusiasm should be getting translated into well targeted messaging and invites to the rest of the world welcoming them to decentralization.

 +5%
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: liondani on February 16, 2015, 02:18:14 pm
If we are going to raise millions for something.. it's not going to be to buy out someone else right now.. that money is better spent in the development of our own ecosystem. I use the word 'development' in the largest sense of the word too.. from marketing to coding.

How about betting on your own horse that has a running chance instead of wanting to put your money behind the one with the broken leg?

Love the enthusiasm about the opportunity..  +5% I just think it's misdirected.. our enthusiasm should be getting translated into well targeted messaging and invites to the rest of the world welcoming them to decentralization.

 +5%

 +5%
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: klosure on February 16, 2015, 06:34:59 pm
If we are going to raise millions for something.. it's not going to be to buy out someone else right now.. that money is better spent in the development of our own ecosystem. I use the word 'development' in the largest sense of the word too.. from marketing to coding.
So you recommand just shrugging off what could be our once in a life time opportunity to make it big, keep doing more of the same, and hope that the world will suddenly awake one morning and realize that we exist?

How about betting on your own horse that has a running chance instead of wanting to put your money behind the one with the broken leg?
That analogy is desingenuous. Our horse may be the most pure thouroughbred the world has ever seen but it's running a race no-one cares about with little prospect of ever being noticed. BTER's horse may be a common breed, but it's been winning its share of races so far; it may have twisted its leg right now but it's still a good horse with a massive following running the league-1 races at every season. And now we get a change of buying that horse and make it run our race as well, and get all the attention we deserve. But you don't want because you know it twisted its ankle at last race.

You are vocal about how BTER is broken but I think that it's not an objetive assessment of reality. BTER's exchange business is the same money making machine it was last week, with a large and loyal user base and well positionned on a large market. They have two problems: a weak security, a 7170 BTC debt. The former can be addressed by running audits, and moving the wallet management to multisig. The second can be addressed by a bail out. Fix the two problems and BTER is back on track like if none of that ever happened. Let's also not forget that for all its technical shortcomings, BTER has been doing much better than us in terms of marketing and they are the ones sending us business, not the other way round.

Love the enthusiasm about the opportunity..  +5% I just think it's misdirected.. our enthusiasm should be getting translated into well targeted messaging and invites to the rest of the world welcoming them to decentralization.
Messages no one will listen because they just don't care. Bitcoiners have the attention span of a 5-year old. If you don't have special effects, you suck and that's it. Look at Paycoin: a complete pile of bullshit from the start, and they managed to make it big for a while with something as lame and ridiculous as a completly unsubstanciated and unrealistic USD 20 floor claim. How they did that: they just dared, it's as simple as that. I'm not saying that we should take them as example, but it's important to realize that user base, marketing and PR is what makes or breaks a product. If you still think that market leaders are winning because they have the best product, you should ask yourself why Bitshares is still that notably unpopular after it has released the most kickass appliction of game theory since the inception of Bitcoin whereas everyone has heard of Dogecoin and its 5-min copy-pasta Bitcoin clone.
Title: Re: Bter hacked and lost 7170 BTC. 720 BTC bounty offered to get it back.
Post by: Gentso1 on February 17, 2015, 01:11:20 am

Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?

I'm guessing that would be very expensive...


not so expensive if they are bankrupt... What do they have that would be most valuable to us , maybe just need their licenses/compliance arrangements


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, their  licenses/compliance records. And their experiences in operating an exchange!

Could our business dev Gentso1 sounds out Bter about a possible deal?  If the deal is affordable to bitshares, we should take it up.  This solves a big headache - fiat on/off-ramp.  I believe a huge marketing buzz would follow.

Doe bter even have a bank partnership? I thought Ego pay was their only fiat option?
Title: Re: Bter hacked and lost 7170 BTC. 720 BTC bounty offered to get it back.
Post by: cube on February 17, 2015, 01:16:44 am

Doe bter even have a bank partnership? I thought Ego pay was their only fiat option?

Yea. Deposit CNY via bank transfer?  And the much-sought-after BTC on/off-ramp?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: sudo on February 17, 2015, 02:23:40 am
bter's  cold storage is fake
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on February 17, 2015, 03:26:10 am
If we are going to raise millions for something.. it's not going to be to buy out someone else right now.. that money is better spent in the development of our own ecosystem. I use the word 'development' in the largest sense of the word too.. from marketing to coding.
So you recommand just shrugging off what could be our once in a life time opportunity to make it big, keep doing more of the same, and hope that the world will suddenly awake one morning and realize that we exist?

How about betting on your own horse that has a running chance instead of wanting to put your money behind the one with the broken leg?
That analogy is desingenuous. Our horse may be the most pure thouroughbred the world has ever seen but it's running a race no-one cares about with little prospect of ever being noticed. BTER's horse may be a common breed, but it's been winning its share of races so far; it may have twisted its leg right now but it's still a good horse with a massive following running the league-1 races at every season. And now we get a change of buying that horse and make it run our race as well, and get all the attention we deserve. But you don't want because you know it twisted its ankle at last race.

You are vocal about how BTER is broken but I think that it's not an objetive assessment of reality. BTER's exchange business is the same money making machine it was last week, with a large and loyal user base and well positionned on a large market. They have two problems: a weak security, a 7170 BTC debt. The former can be addressed by running audits, and moving the wallet management to multisig. The second can be addressed by a bail out. Fix the two problems and BTER is back on track like if none of that ever happened. Let's also not forget that for all its technical shortcomings, BTER has been doing much better than us in terms of marketing and they are the ones sending us business, not the other way round.

Love the enthusiasm about the opportunity..  +5% I just think it's misdirected.. our enthusiasm should be getting translated into well targeted messaging and invites to the rest of the world welcoming them to decentralization.
Messages no one will listen because they just don't care. Bitcoiners have the attention span of a 5-year old. If you don't have special effects, you suck and that's it. Look at Paycoin: a complete pile of bullshit from the start, and they managed to make it big for a while with something as lame and ridiculous as a completly unsubstanciated and unrealistic USD 20 floor claim. How they did that: they just dared, it's as simple as that. I'm not saying that we should take them as example, but it's important to realize that user base, marketing and PR is what makes or breaks a product. If you still think that market leaders are winning because they have the best product, you should ask yourself why Bitshares is still that notably unpopular after it has released the most kickass appliction of game theory since the inception of Bitcoin whereas everyone has heard of Dogecoin and its 5-min copy-pasta Bitcoin clone.

Didn't shrug it off at all.. I can't count how many times I have said this is a marketing opportunity around forums today... and if there is a rally to raise millions.. put it in our development... which includes marketing.

I accept you have a different perspective on where thing are at.. my analogy is apt though when you consider centralized exchanges to be a broken legged horse.. kinda seen this over and over and over again now. That's my perspective on it.

marketing and PR is what makes or breaks a product.

Yeah.. that fit into 'development' as I said.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: bluebit on February 17, 2015, 03:33:29 am
We seriously need a Developer and Community Hangout this week about this Bter Buyout Discussion. I'd like to hear the thoughts from the developers and the community. And let's hope we can all come to a solution if we do decide to strike a deal with Bter.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: hpenvy2 on February 17, 2015, 03:56:20 am
We have no idea what the situation is with BTER and we're already discussing buying them out? I don't understand the logic. Let's offer assistance and formulate a plan around new information.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: toast on February 17, 2015, 04:09:01 am
FUCK what terrible timing. I hope they let us withdraw everything besides the BTC.

And bter buyout is a terrible idea, you really can't think of something better to spend money on, or that we would have the bandwidth to run an entire exchange? And how exactly did you plan to raise $2m again?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: klosure on February 17, 2015, 05:00:56 am
you really can't think of something better to spend money on
Let me think..
No, I don't see anything more important than having a customer base.
We have a product and spent more than enough time and resources building it and trying to market it to no avail. It's about time to stop chasing our tail and realize that we need to buy a customer base.

Buying a customer base / business goodwill is something normal in business when you have a product and marketing isn't your strong point or something you want to waste time and resource with. Ask your doctor, your dentist, your notary, your lawyer... I think by now we can say without hesitation that marketing isn't our strong point. With the rise of other 2nd gen crypto, it's obvious that time is of the essence. We are typically in the situation where buying our customer base would be a wise move.

that we would have the bandwidth to run an entire exchange
BTER has the bandwidth to run itself. We are not talking about dismantling BTER but recapitalizing it, migrating it to a DAC paradigm so that we can control board decisions and fund movements, and running it at arms length thereafter.

And how exactly did you plan to raise $2m again?
The same way every other DAC is raising similar figures: by running a crowd sale. Interested parties can invest directly. Other DACs can also take a stake by voting a dilution, use the proceeds to purchase BTER stake and airdrop it on their own shareholders. BTER has hands on experience of doing snapshoting and airdrops so they could even manage that for us. I don't think we will need to collect 2M. BTER founders and investors will probably want to retain some stake and other risk takers from the crypto community will probably invest as well. Given how NXT got involved last time BTER got hacked, I they probably want to participate to the crowdsale as well. Other cryptos could also make a deal with BTER to be listed in exchange of their participation.

So long as BTER survives, is restructured as a Bitshares DAC and we as a community own a sufficient stake to vote a few delegates at a board seat and influence its future evolution, it's a winning move for us. We don't even need to start with a control stake: since BTER shares will be exchange traded we can decide later to bid for more stake individually or as a community. It could be as low as 1M USD or even lower depending on how much they need to stay in business and absorb the loss.

Again it's not only a huge opportunity to get a large user base and save our main gateway but also a unique chance to showcase our technology, show to the world how DACs are the future of business and establish Bishares as the go-to launchpad for future entrepreneurs.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: fuzzy on February 17, 2015, 05:30:31 am
you really can't think of something better to spend money on
Let me think..
No, I don't see anything more important than having a customer base.
We have a product and spent more than enough time and resources building it and trying to market it to no avail. It's about time to stop chasing our tail and realize that we need to buy a customer base.

Buying a customer base / business goodwill is something normal in business when you have a product and marketing isn't your strong point or something you want to waste time and resource with. Ask your doctor, your dentist, your notary, your lawyer... I think by now we can say without hesitation that marketing isn't our strong point. With the rise of other 2nd gen crypto, it's obvious that time is of the essence. We are typically in the situation where buying our customer base would be a wise move.

that we would have the bandwidth to run an entire exchange
BTER has the bandwidth to run itself. We are not talking about dismantling BTER but recapitalizing it, migrating it to a DAC paradigm so that we can control board decisions and fund movements, and running it at arms length thereafter.

And how exactly did you plan to raise $2m again?
The same way every other DAC is raising similar figures: by running a crowd sale. Interested parties can invest directly. Other DACs can also take a stake by voting a dilution, use the proceeds to purchase BTER stake and airdrop it on their own shareholders. BTER has hands on experience of doing snapshoting and airdrops so they could even manage that for us. I don't think we will need to collect 2M. BTER founders and investors will probably want to retain some stake and other risk takers from the crypto community will probably invest as well. Given how NXT got involved last time BTER got hacked, I they probably want to participate to the crowdsale as well. Other cryptos could also make a deal with BTER to be listed in exchange of their participation.

So long as BTER survives, is restructured as a Bitshares DAC and we as a community own a sufficient stake to vote a few delegates at a board seat and influence its future evolution, it's a winning move for us. We don't even need to start with a control stake: since BTER shares will be exchange traded we can decide later to bid for more stake individually or as a community. It could be as low as 1M USD or even lower depending on how much they need to stay in business and absorb the loss.

Again it's not only a huge opportunity to get a large user base and save our main gateway but also a unique chance to showcase our technology, show to the world how DACs are the future of business and establish Bishares as the go-to launchpad for future entrepreneurs.

Your arguments are certainly strong. 

Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: TurkeyLeg on February 17, 2015, 05:55:24 am
you really can't think of something better to spend money on
Let me think..
No, I don't see anything more important than having a customer base.
We have a product and spent more than enough time and resources building it and trying to market it to no avail. It's about time to stop chasing our tail and realize that we need to buy a customer base.

Buying a customer base / business goodwill is something normal in business when you have a product and marketing isn't your strong point or something you want to waste time and resource with. Ask your doctor, your dentist, your notary, your lawyer... I think by now we can say without hesitation that marketing isn't our strong point. With the rise of other 2nd gen crypto, it's obvious that time is of the essence. We are typically in the situation where buying our customer base would be a wise move.

that we would have the bandwidth to run an entire exchange
BTER has the bandwidth to run itself. We are not talking about dismantling BTER but recapitalizing it, migrating it to a DAC paradigm so that we can control board decisions and fund movements, and running it at arms length thereafter.

And how exactly did you plan to raise $2m again?
The same way every other DAC is raising similar figures: by running a crowd sale. Interested parties can invest directly. Other DACs can also take a stake by voting a dilution, use the proceeds to purchase BTER stake and airdrop it on their own shareholders. BTER has hands on experience of doing snapshoting and airdrops so they could even manage that for us. I don't think we will need to collect 2M. BTER founders and investors will probably want to retain some stake and other risk takers from the crypto community will probably invest as well. Given how NXT got involved last time BTER got hacked, I they probably want to participate to the crowdsale as well. Other cryptos could also make a deal with BTER to be listed in exchange of their participation.

So long as BTER survives, is restructured as a Bitshares DAC and we as a community own a sufficient stake to vote a few delegates at a board seat and influence its future evolution, it's a winning move for us. We don't even need to start with a control stake: since BTER shares will be exchange traded we can decide later to bid for more stake individually or as a community. It could be as low as 1M USD or even lower depending on how much they need to stay in business and absorb the loss.

Again it's not only a huge opportunity to get a large user base and save our main gateway but also a unique chance to showcase our technology, show to the world how DACs are the future of business and establish Bishares as the go-to launchpad for future entrepreneurs.

 +5% I agree, a strong argument here for the upside and feasibility.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: joele on February 17, 2015, 06:07:13 am
Strong argument but big responsibilities to Bitshares Devs if this happen.
We need a voting mechanism to vote if this proposal is good to go or not, who will lead, etc.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: liondani on February 17, 2015, 06:15:35 am
@klosure
1. you don't buy the whole user base cause after what happened they have loose trust to them so you don't known what % will come back,  except for withdrawing their funds.
2. What if tomorrow they give you enough  prove that  it was an inside job? Will you continue to want to buy them out?
3.After you buy them,  how can you be sure that you get not  hacked again ? 


Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 997D

Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: donkeypong on February 17, 2015, 06:44:12 am
If you're going to buy, then aim for something Poloniex-sized (not that I'm a fan of that particular exchange). Bter is way too damn big and expensive. Plus, they'll make money even with this hack, so why would they want to can that business model and sell to us?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: klosure on February 17, 2015, 07:29:03 am
1. you don't buy the whole user base cause after what happened they have loose trust to them so you don't known what % will come back,  except for withdrawing their funds.
This is a risk point, but it can be greatly mitigated with the proper communication strategy. We must email every users, put a disclaimer at first relogin and make sure there is ample news coverage about the fact BTER has been restructured and is now operating under a new paradigm whereby all important decisions are being peer-reviewed and approved by delegates elected by shareholders, and cold wallets funds are held in escrow under control of a trustless decentralized network. Users who understand that it has become technically impossible to steel the cold wallet funds or steer the company out of the right path will stay and spead the word. There will be some departures, but most customers will probably come back once the dust settles.

2. What if tomorrow they give you enough  prove that  it was an inside job? Will you continue to want to buy them out?
I doubt that the theft was done by the founders or at least not in a concerted manner for one simple reason: the BTER brand and business is worth more than the 7170 BTC that were stolen. If it's an insider job, it's more likely the deed of an isolated person, either a single founder with significantly less than 7170 BTC worth of BTER shares, or someone from the staff. That makes a big difference because in one case the company is corrupt, while in the other case the company is honest but has a black sheep in its ranks.

So to answer your question, if there is someday enough proof of what happened, and it's indeed a black sheep doing the job unbeknownst from the rest of the company, that person will be prosecuted and the company will be able to continue operating normally.

Now, it's also possible that BTER hasn't said everything and that the situation was already critical before the alledged hack (undisclosed earlier losses, bad trading decisions with customer funds, running on fractional reserve etc..). In that case, running with the funds could be a concerted decision from the founders given that the company was already virtually bankrupt. If that's the case though, there will be a glaring mismatch between customer balances and available funds when we inspect their finances, so obviously we won't proceed with the acquisition. Actually in that case, I would expect that BTER will refuse the bailout in first place as this would get them exposed.

3.After you buy them,  how can you be sure that you get not  hacked again ? 
See point one. The new BTER will be using multisig coldstorage requiring signatures from delegates of the BTER DAC as well as at least one signature from a BTER staff. With that setup, the delegates would need to collude with the operational staff to steal the funds and the identity of the culprits would be know at the time they broadcast the transaction. In other words, it will be virtually impossible to steal the funds and very possible to identify and prosecute the guilty parties should that very unlikely case arise.

tl;dr: we don't really know what happened so we will need to be very vigilent when we do due diligence and ensure that BTER has full reserves for the customer funds, except for the missing Bitcoins. If there is a blacksheep in the ranks and he doesn't get nailed in the aftermath of the hack, he won't be able to reoffend anyway since going forward cold wallets will be controlled by the DAC.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: monsterer on February 17, 2015, 09:19:49 am
$2M is a lot of money to pay for a bunch of pissed off customers. Also, I fail to see how you can restructure BTER as a DAC without it turning into what bitshares already is, i.e. decentralised exchange?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: klosure on February 17, 2015, 10:53:14 am
$2M is a lot of money to pay for a bunch of pissed off customers.
2M may sounds like a large number, but without putting it in context perception of size is quite arbitrary.
Bitshares is a network with a 20M market cap down from a 80M market cap at its peak.
What created that 60M slump is variation in demand. And demand derives from customer base.
When you put back things in perspective, decupling our customer base for 2M is cheap (and as dicussed above, we really only need 1M for a majority stake, and even less than that would give us enough influence to push our agenda).

Also, I fail to see how you can restructure BTER as a DAC without it turning into what bitshares already is, i.e. decentralised exchange?
Whether a company is a DAC or not is more about the company structure itself than about what it does as economic activity. If ownership, power structure, decision making and cash flows management are decentralized, you already have a DAC even if what it does as economic activity is highly centralized.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: monsterer on February 17, 2015, 11:51:29 am
2M may sounds like a large number, but without putting it in context perception of size is quite arbitrary.
Bitshares is a network with a 20M market cap down from a 80M market cap at its peak.

The best you can hope to do with this buyout is to restore bitshares market cap to what it was the day before they went under, since you still are not creating any extra demand.

Quote
Whether a company is a DAC or not is more about the company structure itself than about what it does as economic activity. If ownership, power structure, decision making and cash flows management are decentralized, you already have a DAC even if what it does as economic activity is highly centralized.

I think you are confusing DAC with cooperative. A DAC is autonomous, this would be entirely not.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: D4vegee on February 17, 2015, 12:16:26 pm
How do BTER feel about this proposed takeover? Have they a clue this is an idea within the BTS community? Wouldn't it be best to sound them out first before this thread keeps getting longer and longer.. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: lil_jay890 on February 17, 2015, 12:21:09 pm
1. We are way too disorganized and much too limited manpower wise to do the due diligence and have the capacity to run a takeover of an exchange like bter.
2.IF bter even floats the idea of a buyout, its going to cost well over the 7k bitcoins they lost... This exchange would prolly get gobbled up for 10mil minimum. Most likely by a single player with a net worth 10 times our market cap.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: CLains on February 17, 2015, 12:30:49 pm
What Bter might need/want,
1. Bter might need to sell some of their stock to raise capital, opportunity1.
2. Bter might want to integrate with/transition to a decentralized accounting/exchange, opportunity2.

The word "buyout" seems to confuse the issue here.

What BitShares might need/want,
3. BitShares might need to pay an (on/off-ramp) exchange to jumpstart bitAsset userbase.
4. BitShares might want to integrate with a centralized exchange (front-end) like Bter.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: LRENZ on February 17, 2015, 01:57:11 pm
We have a product and spent more than enough time and resources building it and trying to market it to no avail.

WRONG. The Wallet still doesn't work for most people,. Its not even worth marketing it yet because it sucks. The 2m could be spent on devs instead. Yall are deluded, this buyout idea is beyond ridiculous!!
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: Frodo on February 17, 2015, 02:50:32 pm
It's true the wallet is still not usable for a broad audience. But simply throwing more resources at it is not necessarily going to help (from a short term point of view). I'm just saying mythical man month.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: Helikopterben on February 17, 2015, 05:46:32 pm
I can't believe a buyout bailout is even being discussed.  Bter has proven their incompetency twice now.  First with the stolen nxt and now with stolen btc.  Until proven otherwise, we shall assume that what they have done is criminal.  They were entrusted with other people's money and now it has disappeared.  For all we know, the owner of the exchange could have stolen the money.  If you want to socialize losses, use fiat. 

This entire crypto bear market has coincided with many exchange failures, which is a good thing.  Slowly but surely, all weak links in the system are being disposed of.  We have precedent for this.  During the great depression in the US, over 9000 banks failed and most markets crashed.  Bailouts and debasement of the USD did not occur on a large scale.  What resulted over the next several decades was one of the strongest economies the world had ever seen (1940-2000), and this was on the back of a government issued currency and centralized, government controlled points of exchange.  The key ingredient then was that weak links such as poorly run banks were allowed to fail, instead of bailed out.  Fast forward to today.  We have a legacy economy fraught with bailouts and currency debasement which has resulted in a an unstoppable cancer that has spread so far and wide that it cannot be cured.  At the same time, we have an emerging crypo economy in the depths of a crypto depression.  This depression is necessary to weed out all weak links, such as incompetent and criminal exchanges and ponzi schemes.  I believe once this process is finished, we will see the strongest economy the world has ever seen because for the first time in history, we have the tools to solve many problems that were previously unsolvable (decentralized money, decentralized exchange, ect, ect, ect).  The timing is impeccable.  As the fiat system is beginning to crumble (Greek and Eurozone crisis, fiat currency volatility picking up), the crypto economy is getting stronger and stronger by the day.  We may soon see an unprecedented shift in global wealth... and if you blink you may miss it.  The next decade should be very interesting and I believe we are on the right side of it. 

Let bter fail.  It would be counterproductive to even attempt to bail them out.  Trading needs to migrate to decentralized exchanges.  It may be painful now, but the crypto economy will emerge much more powerful because of it over the long term.

Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: fluxer555 on February 17, 2015, 06:11:46 pm
I can't believe a buyout bailout is even being discussed.  Bter has proven their incompetency twice now.  First with the stolen nxt and now with stolen btc.  Until proven otherwise, we shall assume that what they have done is criminal.  They were entrusted with other people's money and now it has disappeared.  For all we know, the owner of the exchange could have stolen the money.  If you want to socialize losses, use fiat. 

This entire crypto bear market has coincided with many exchange failures, which is a good thing.  Slowly but surely, all weak links in the system are being disposed of.  We have precedent for this.  During the great depression in the US, over 9000 banks failed and most markets crashed.  Bailouts and debasement of the USD did not occur on a large scale.  What resulted over the next several decades was one of the strongest economies the world had ever seen (1940-2000), and this was on the back of a government issued currency and centralized, government controlled points of exchange.  The key ingredient then was that weak links such as poorly run banks were allowed to fail, instead of bailed out.  Fast forward to today.  We have a legacy economy fraught with bailouts and currency debasement which has resulted in a an unstoppable cancer that has spread so far and wide that it cannot be cured.  At the same time, we have an emerging crypo economy in the depths of a crypto depression.  This depression is necessary to weed out all weak links, such as incompetent and criminal exchanges and ponzi schemes.  I believe once this process is finished, we will see the strongest economy the world has ever seen because for the first time in history, we have the tools to solve many problems that were previously unsolvable (decentralized money, decentralized exchange, ect, ect, ect).  The timing is impeccable.  As the fiat system is beginning to crumble (Greek and Eurozone crisis, fiat currency volatility picking up), the crypto economy is getting stronger and stronger by the day.  We may soon see an unprecedented shift in global wealth... and if you blink you may miss it.  The next decade should be very interesting and I believe we are on the right side of it. 

Let bter fail.  It would be counterproductive to even attempt to bail them out.  Trading needs to migrate to decentralized exchanges.  It may be painful now, but the crypto economy will emerge much more powerful because of it over the long term.

+5%
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: Akado on February 17, 2015, 06:14:54 pm
I don't like the idea of bailing them out too. It sounds too much like what the governments do with banks nowadays and I don't support that. In this case, bter failed due to lack of security. The fault is entirely on their hands. What's worst in this case is that this is not the first time it happens. Sure they have been useful and cooperative with us, but their failure is not on our hands. Let thins follow their path. If it recovers, fine, if not, then so be it.

Other exchanges will absorb their volume and users. That kind of thing happens all the time. New exchanges will come and fill the void left by bter if this doesn't recover. On top of that, it's a new chance for our bridges and gateways. People might just give them a try because after bter and btc38, they're probably the most 'trustable' resources to get bts or bitassets. Just give them time. If our gateways on top of going btc-bitassets, go alts-bitassets, in the future our own gateways can replace these exchanges for the people who only pretend to escape from volatility.

While the idea of taking over bter sounds awesome and makes us seem powerful, we can't let our ego go over our heads. I understand the value of their userbase but they will just spread and other exchange will fill the void like it has always happened.

I believe people won't stop trading bts or bitassets because bter failed, because the ones who do, believe in the concept behind it. If it was just another copy/pasted alt I would understand but people won't quit on bts because of that.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: liondani on February 17, 2015, 06:28:51 pm
I can't believe a buyout bailout is even being discussed.  Bter has proven their incompetency twice now.  First with the stolen nxt and now with stolen btc.  Until proven otherwise, we shall assume that what they have done is criminal.  They were entrusted with other people's money and now it has disappeared.  For all we know, the owner of the exchange could have stolen the money.  If you want to socialize losses, use fiat. 

This entire crypto bear market has coincided with many exchange failures, which is a good thing.  Slowly but surely, all weak links in the system are being disposed of.  We have precedent for this.  During the great depression in the US, over 9000 banks failed and most markets crashed.  Bailouts and debasement of the USD did not occur on a large scale.  What resulted over the next several decades was one of the strongest economies the world had ever seen (1940-2000), and this was on the back of a government issued currency and centralized, government controlled points of exchange.  The key ingredient then was that weak links such as poorly run banks were allowed to fail, instead of bailed out.  Fast forward to today.  We have a legacy economy fraught with bailouts and currency debasement which has resulted in a an unstoppable cancer that has spread so far and wide that it cannot be cured.  At the same time, we have an emerging crypo economy in the depths of a crypto depression.  This depression is necessary to weed out all weak links, such as incompetent and criminal exchanges and ponzi schemes.  I believe once this process is finished, we will see the strongest economy the world has ever seen because for the first time in history, we have the tools to solve many problems that were previously unsolvable (decentralized money, decentralized exchange, ect, ect, ect).  The timing is impeccable.  As the fiat system is beginning to crumble (Greek and Eurozone crisis, fiat currency volatility picking up), the crypto economy is getting stronger and stronger by the day.  We may soon see an unprecedented shift in global wealth... and if you blink you may miss it.  The next decade should be very interesting and I believe we are on the right side of it. 

Let bter fail.  It would be counterproductive to even attempt to bail them out.  Trading needs to migrate to decentralized exchanges.  It may be painful now, but the crypto economy will emerge much more powerful because of it over the long term.

+5%

make sense,   +5%
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: klosure on February 18, 2015, 12:43:59 am
Let bter fail.  It would be counterproductive to even attempt to bail them out.  Trading needs to migrate to decentralized exchanges.  It may be painful now, but the crypto economy will emerge much more powerful because of it over the long term.
You are right, we should let BTER fail and cripple BitShares so that other gen 2 cryptos can prevail. Survival of the fitest for the sake of mankind, nevermind your personal investments.

Interesting how people will acclaim ground-sounding idealism without realizing it doesn't do anything to address practical issues.

To people who rail or reject the idea of a bailout but only provide general libertarian rethoric as a counter argument, will you please stop blowing hot air and propose an action plan to address the very real and practical fact that Bitshares is going to lose its main gateway and fall behind in a major way?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: hpenvy2 on February 18, 2015, 01:28:34 am
Speculation is a complete waste of time and energy. When we know the entire situation, we can make appropriate moves.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: Helikopterben on February 18, 2015, 01:30:57 am
Let bter fail.  It would be counterproductive to even attempt to bail them out.  Trading needs to migrate to decentralized exchanges.  It may be painful now, but the crypto economy will emerge much more powerful because of it over the long term.
You are right, we should let BTER fail and cripple BitShares so that other gen 2 cryptos can prevail. Survival of the fitest for the sake of mankind, nevermind your personal investments.

Interesting how people will acclaim ground-sounding idealism without realizing it doesn't do anything to address practical issues.

To people who rail or reject the idea of a bailout but only provide general libertarian rethoric as a counter argument, will you please stop blowing hot air and propose an action plan to address the very real and practical fact that Bitshares is going to lose its main gateway and fall behind in a major way?

Would you rather bter fail now or fail when bitshares is 100x bigger with 100x more assets exposed on the failed exchange.  Of course that would be AFTER giving them 7000 btc.  Bitshares (and other 2.0 projects) will be stronger long term with a bter closure. 

I have no idea why this ideology perists of giving other people full control of your money and then when you inevitably get screwed, you start talking about bailouts.  Crypto has many tools to solve this problem.  Bitshares is proving to be one of them, but it won't succeed by bailing out centralized exchanges, the very problem it is intended to solve.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: cube on February 18, 2015, 02:54:19 am
At times it is difficult to know whether we are investing in bter or simply bailing it out.  We can take a leaf from the investment expert -

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/06/02/1-thing-to-know-about-warren-buffetts-investment-i.aspx

I think we have a good case of a rare investment opportunity presented to us.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: LRENZ on February 18, 2015, 04:15:35 am
The www.bter.com page has been updated now with links to their twitter/weibo status updates where they provide no updates... Ok I'm getting impatient now, this is taking much longer than I anticipated.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: merlin0113 on February 18, 2015, 04:29:01 am
The www.bter.com page has been updated now with links to their twitter/weibo status updates where they provide no updates... Ok I'm getting impatient now, this is taking much longer than I anticipated.

They have several updates on weibo 2hrs ago.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: fuzzy on February 18, 2015, 05:55:22 am
The www.bter.com page has been updated now with links to their twitter/weibo status updates where they provide no updates... Ok I'm getting impatient now, this is taking much longer than I anticipated.

They have several updates on weibo 2hrs ago.

I didn't see any updates worth anything for people interested in this though. 

As for a "bailout"/"buyout" I have no clue why people even care what others choose to do.  To be honest, to Klosure I say you reach out to BTER and see what they think about the idea.  After this, I personally have no funds available for actually helping to buy them out, but some people might find it a very valuable idea.  Heck we might even see people from other cryptocurrency communities download the BTS wallet just to participate in the crowdsale!

If it means getting BTER recapitalized enough to continue business long enough to break even, then maybe it is worth it.  Not that it matters though!.  If people don't want to invest, they won't invest!  If they do want to take that risk, then they will.  This thread is now becoming a bit of a sideshow imho...so this is my last post on it and I hope we will all consider spending out time doing something more productive. 
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: Frodo on February 18, 2015, 07:19:45 am
From bitcointalk:

Quote
Seems like they're gonna allow withdrawals for altcoins after Chinese Newyear, they just posted this on their Weibo (Google translated):

最近让用户担心了,我们将在春节后首先安排人民币以及美元的提现工作,届时用户可以登录验证后提取账户中的余额。其他虚拟币的提现工作将在确保数字钱包安全的情况下陆续开通。首批开通提现的虚拟币将包括NXT,XCP,XTC等。

"Recently allows users worry, we will first arrange withdrawals work renminbi and the dollar after the Spring Festival, then the user can log on after the extraction verify account balances. Withdraw the work of other virtual currency will be opened in ensuring the safety of the digital wallet. The first opening of a virtual currency withdrawals will include NXT, XCP, XTC, etc."
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: btswildpig on February 18, 2015, 07:31:46 am
The www.bter.com page has been updated now with links to their twitter/weibo status updates where they provide no updates... Ok I'm getting impatient now, this is taking much longer than I anticipated.

They have several updates on weibo 2hrs ago.

I didn't see any updates worth anything for people interested in this though. 

As for a "bailout"/"buyout" I have no clue why people even care what others choose to do.  To be honest, to Klosure I say you reach out to BTER and see what they think about the idea.  After this, I personally have no funds available for actually helping to buy them out, but some people might find it a very valuable idea.  Heck we might even see people from other cryptocurrency communities download the BTS wallet just to participate in the crowdsale!

If it means getting BTER recapitalized enough to continue business long enough to break even, then maybe it is worth it.  Not that it matters though!.  If people don't want to invest, they won't invest!  If they do want to take that risk, then they will.  This thread is now becoming a bit of a sideshow imho...so this is my last post on it and I hope we will all consider spending out time doing something more productive.

 :P crowd fund to help them get on with their feet and to lose another 7K BTC again ? I don't know ....
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: hightower on February 18, 2015, 11:08:51 am
From bitcointalk:

Quote
Seems like they're gonna allow withdrawals for altcoins after Chinese Newyear, they just posted this on their Weibo (Google translated):

最近让用户担心了,我们将在春节后首先安排人民币以及美元的提现工作,届时用户可以登录验证后提取账户中的余额。其他虚拟币的提现工作将在确保数字钱包安全的情况下陆续开通。首批开通提现的虚拟币将包括NXT,XCP,XTC等。

"Recently allows users worry, we will first arrange withdrawals work renminbi and the dollar after the Spring Festival, then the user can log on after the extraction verify account balances. Withdraw the work of other virtual currency will be opened in ensuring the safety of the digital wallet. The first opening of a virtual currency withdrawals will include NXT, XCP, XTC, etc."

Are they releasing bts soon? I keep my bts in bter.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: Frodo on February 18, 2015, 11:33:55 am
Updates from @btercom:

Quote
CNY and USD withdrawals will be enabled first in these days and the crypto-coins (NXT etc)will be handled later when we make sure it's safe.

Quote
We are seeking all ways to compensate our users including selling http://BTER.com  (Debits & funds not included): admin@mail.bter.com
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: Riverhead on February 18, 2015, 12:00:38 pm



It is good to see they are still updating the site. Hopefully we'll see a return of BTS and related assets soon.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: fuzzy on February 18, 2015, 12:26:05 pm
The www.bter.com page has been updated now with links to their twitter/weibo status updates where they provide no updates... Ok I'm getting impatient now, this is taking much longer than I anticipated.

They have several updates on weibo 2hrs ago.

I didn't see any updates worth anything for people interested in this though. 

As for a "bailout"/"buyout" I have no clue why people even care what others choose to do.  To be honest, to Klosure I say you reach out to BTER and see what they think about the idea.  After this, I personally have no funds available for actually helping to buy them out, but some people might find it a very valuable idea.  Heck we might even see people from other cryptocurrency communities download the BTS wallet just to participate in the crowdsale!

If it means getting BTER recapitalized enough to continue business long enough to break even, then maybe it is worth it.  Not that it matters though!.  If people don't want to invest, they won't invest!  If they do want to take that risk, then they will.  This thread is now becoming a bit of a sideshow imho...so this is my last post on it and I hope we will all consider spending out time doing something more productive.

 :P crowd fund to help them get on with their feet and to lose another 7K BTC again ? I don't know ....

I didn't ask you to pay for it.  I simply stated that there are people who seem interested, so they should consider trying it.  :)
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: merlin0113 on February 18, 2015, 12:33:24 pm
The www.bter.com page has been updated now with links to their twitter/weibo status updates where they provide no updates... Ok I'm getting impatient now, this is taking much longer than I anticipated.

They have several updates on weibo 2hrs ago.

I didn't see any updates worth anything for people interested in this though. 

As for a "bailout"/"buyout" I have no clue why people even care what others choose to do.  To be honest, to Klosure I say you reach out to BTER and see what they think about the idea.  After this, I personally have no funds available for actually helping to buy them out, but some people might find it a very valuable idea.  Heck we might even see people from other cryptocurrency communities download the BTS wallet just to participate in the crowdsale!

If it means getting BTER recapitalized enough to continue business long enough to break even, then maybe it is worth it.  Not that it matters though!.  If people don't want to invest, they won't invest!  If they do want to take that risk, then they will.  This thread is now becoming a bit of a sideshow imho...so this is my last post on it and I hope we will all consider spending out time doing something more productive.

 :P crowd fund to help them get on with their feet and to lose another 7K BTC again ? I don't know ....

I didn't ask you to pay for it.  I simply stated that there are people who seem interested, so they should consider trying it.  :)

Is it safer being a GATEWAY than being a exchange? There are chances indeed, maybe not a buyout but something we could do!
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: Helikopterben on February 18, 2015, 03:01:24 pm
As for a "bailout"/"buyout" I have no clue why people even care what others choose to do. 

My first thought was "bailout delegate" when I saw the title of the thread "community members discuss buyout", so that put me on edge.  I don't care what others do.  If they want to crowdfund a bailout, so be it.  I won't participate.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: sumantso on February 18, 2015, 03:52:02 pm
Updates from @btercom:

Quote
CNY and USD withdrawals will be enabled first in these days and the crypto-coins (NXT etc)will be handled later when we make sure it's safe.

Quote
We are seeking all ways to compensate our users including selling http://BTER.com  (Debits & funds not included): admin@mail.bter.com

If they are selling it off, what happens to the snapshots and vested balances? I hope BM or someone is in communication with them.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: fuzzy on February 18, 2015, 09:06:21 pm
As for a "bailout"/"buyout" I have no clue why people even care what others choose to do. 

My first thought was "bailout delegate" when I saw the title of the thread "community members discuss buyout", so that put me on edge.  I don't care what others do.  If they want to crowdfund a bailout, so be it.  I won't participate.

I think what Klosure has meant by this entire thing is that we wouldn't really be bailing out BTER.  We would be essentially buying a userbase who is scared and concerned that BTER has lost all their funds (again).  This would be an opportunity to come in, buyout the distressed business on the cheap, bailing out the people who are holding funds there (thus buying a loyal user-base).  We could easily turn it into a Gateway at this point, slightly change some of the incentive structures to favor trading with BTS/bitAsset pairings. 

I am not sure if you guys have paid much attention, but it seems like poloniex is highly leveraged into NXT and it is a big bonus for all their projects because it almost guarantees instant liquidity.  A coordinated buyout of BTER could be a strategically invaluable move.  However, for me to have any part in it, I personally would expect so much that the leadership likely prefer to watch it crash and burn than take the deal...because I would want it to turn almost exclusively into a BitShares gateway to the degree that Poloniex is for NXT. 

I'd also want a token issued that is backed by some % of trading fees, that is issued to people who successfully hack BTER as a bounty that can then be redeemed for something like bitUSD.   

I personally do not think BTER is going to make it through this time though. 
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: merlin0113 on February 18, 2015, 11:16:01 pm

As for a "bailout"/"buyout" I have no clue why people even care what others choose to do. 

My first thought was "bailout delegate" when I saw the title of the thread "community members discuss buyout", so that put me on edge.  I don't care what others do.  If they want to crowdfund a bailout, so be it.  I won't participate.

I think what Klosure has meant by this entire thing is that we wouldn't really be bailing out BTER.  We would be essentially buying a userbase who is scared and concerned that BTER has lost all their funds (again).  This would be an opportunity to come in, buyout the distressed business on the cheap, bailing out the people who are holding funds there (thus buying a loyal user-base).  We could easily turn it into a Gateway at this point, slightly change some of the incentive structures to favor trading with BTS/bitAsset pairings. 

I am not sure if you guys have paid much attention, but it seems like poloniex is highly leveraged into NXT and it is a big bonus for all their projects because it almost guarantees instant liquidity.  A coordinated buyout of BTER could be a strategically invaluable move.  However, for me to have any part in it, I personally would expect so much that the leadership likely prefer to watch it crash and burn than take the deal...because I would want it to turn almost exclusively into a BitShares gateway to the degree that Poloniex is for NXT. 

I'd also want a token issued that is backed by some % of trading fees, that is issued to people who successfully hack BTER as a bounty that can then be redeemed for something like bitUSD.   

I personally do not think BTER is going to make it through this time though.

According bytemasters blog, being a gateway is safer being a exchange, and profitable meantime. If our community don't do something, i.e. 1. community members set up a gateway of our own; 2. commubity members lobby other ppl to set up one, then bytemaster'blog post will be meaningless, perhaps to outsiders like a JOKE.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: clayop on February 18, 2015, 11:18:00 pm
According bytemasters blog, being a gateway is safer being a exchange, and profitable meantime. If our community don't do something, i.e. 1. community members set up a gateway of our own; 2. commubity members lobby other ppl to set up one, then bytemaster'blog post will be meaningless, perhaps to outsiders like a JOKE.

Agreed. So I'm preparing it now ;)
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: klosure on February 19, 2015, 03:40:48 am
According bytemasters blog, being a gateway is safer being a exchange, and profitable meantime. If our community don't do something, i.e. 1. community members set up a gateway of our own; 2. commubity members lobby other ppl to set up one, then bytemaster'blog post will be meaningless, perhaps to outsiders like a JOKE.
Creating a new BTS-centric gateway won't have at all the same effect as steering progressively an existing generalist exchange to a more BTS and BitAsset centric paradigm. A new gateway will only attract existing BitShares users and do nothing to increase our userbase and demand. Fuzzy's exemple of Poloniex for NXT is spot on but it would be even better with a Bitshares owned BTER because the user base is huge and BitShares allows to withdraw and deposit fiat as BitAssets. Basically BitAssets could become the preferred method of depositing and withdrawing cash to/from BTER in the long run and could even become a widespread inter-exchange settlement network if other exchanges follow suit.

Buying out an established exchange user base is a rare opportunity to expand massively our user base. No matter how you look at it there is no other fast and guaranteed route to widespread adoption of Bitshares than that. Yes we could keep doing the same and hope to organically grow by convicing one new user at a time but this could take a very long time and in this highly competitive environment time is not our allied.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: Helikopterben on February 19, 2015, 04:09:39 am
@fuzzy @klosure

Why not buy out poloniex?  At least they are solvent (although they have been hacked before) and we could compete directly with nxt on their own gateway.  It seems like that would be better bang for the buck.  Why was there no discussion of buying out bter before they lost all customer funds?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: clayop on February 19, 2015, 04:19:21 am
Buying bter is useless IMHO, because they already fail protecting their security and lost users' loyalty.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: klosure on February 19, 2015, 05:00:01 am
Updates from @btercom:

Quote
CNY and USD withdrawals will be enabled first in these days and the crypto-coins (NXT etc)will be handled later when we make sure it's safe.

Quote
We are seeking all ways to compensate our users including selling http://BTER.com  (Debits & funds not included): admin@mail.bter.com
Seems that the BTER funders are wiling to litterally give away the business and all assets including domain name to the bidder who will give the best indemnisation to victims of the hack. It means that we should be able to do a partial bailout and still get to take over the BTER brand.

I have a new proposal. I'll develop more on that later, but here is the outline:
We create a bailout fund that will be funded by N delegates. Each time the fund receives delegate payments, it bugs bitBTC and airdrops it to BTER users who registered on Bitshares prorata of their lost BTC holding. This is litterally a vested bail out fund but the vesting schedule is dynamic and adjust with the BTS exchange rate.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: fuzzy on February 19, 2015, 05:21:11 am
Updates from @btercom:

Quote
CNY and USD withdrawals will be enabled first in these days and the crypto-coins (NXT etc)will be handled later when we make sure it's safe.

Quote
We are seeking all ways to compensate our users including selling http://BTER.com  (Debits & funds not included): admin@mail.bter.com
Seems that the BTER funders are wiling to litterally give away the business and all assets including domain name to the bidder who will give the best indemnisation to victims of the hack. It means that we should be able to do a partial bailout and still get to take over the BTER brand.

I have a new proposal. I'll develop more on that later, but here is the outline:
We create a bailout fund that will be funded by N delegates. Each time the fund receives delegate payments, it bugs bitBTC and airdrops it to BTER users who registered on Bitshares prorata of their lost BTC holding. This is litterally a vested bail out fund but the vesting schedule is dynamic and adjust with the BTS exchange rate.

No delegates. 

I do not support delegates because this forces people who are obviously against this idea to pay for something they hate.  I do not want to trade a user base over at BTER (who might simply bail and go to a competitor after they regain access to their funds) for an already loyal COMMUNITY here.  This is where you have lost me. 

Let people buy in if they want to.  Get contact with BTER, I'll reach out and help you, but you lose my support as soon as you try to get delegates voted in for this. 
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: fluxer555 on February 19, 2015, 05:38:30 am
No delegates. 

+5%
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: merlin0113 on February 19, 2015, 06:46:25 am
Updates from @btercom:

Quote
CNY and USD withdrawals will be enabled first in these days and the crypto-coins (NXT etc)will be handled later when we make sure it's safe.

Quote
We are seeking all ways to compensate our users including selling http://BTER.com  (Debits & funds not included): admin@mail.bter.com
Seems that the BTER funders are wiling to litterally give away the business and all assets including domain name to the bidder who will give the best indemnisation to victims of the hack. It means that we should be able to do a partial bailout and still get to take over the BTER brand.

I have a new proposal. I'll develop more on that later, but here is the outline:
We create a bailout fund that will be funded by N delegates. Each time the fund receives delegate payments, it bugs bitBTC and airdrops it to BTER users who registered on Bitshares prorata of their lost BTC holding. This is litterally a vested bail out fund but the vesting schedule is dynamic and adjust with the BTS exchange rate.

No delegates. 

I do not support delegates because this forces people who are obviously against this idea to pay for something they hate.  I do not want to trade a user base over at BTER (who might simply bail and go to a competitor after they regain access to their funds) for an already loyal COMMUNITY here.  This is where you have lost me. 

Let people buy in if they want to.  Get contact with BTER, I'll reach out and help you, but you lose my support as soon as you try to get delegates voted in for this.

I think to reach a full consensus is impossible, and you are just a one among many. So stop using this ruling tongue.
IMO, it's not a good idea or at least too bold to buyout bter at the moment. Maybe we should try to persuade bter to be a BTS gateway and by the guarantee them to be a major recognized and supported gateway of our community, ok, maybe coupled with a small check to help them.
Being a gateway won't affect much when they unfortunately get hacked again.
Since this is supposed to be beneficial to the community, so I doubt if this small check should go to the ones making this happen instead of the whole commuity(diluted delegate pay) or I3(AGS fund).
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: fuzzy on February 19, 2015, 08:46:45 am
I think to reach a full consensus is impossible, and you are just a one among many. So stop using this ruling tongue.

I don't understand what you mean.  What ruling tongue? 

I'm confused.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: merlin0113 on February 19, 2015, 08:56:00 am
I think to reach a full consensus is impossible, and you are just a one among many. So stop using this ruling tongue.

I don't understand what you mean.  What ruling tongue? 

I'm confused.

Just let everyone to feel comfortable to discuss within this community. We lost many decent people already due to this very reason.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: sumantso on February 19, 2015, 10:17:51 am
If they are selling it off, what happens to the snapshots and vested balances? I hope BM or someone is in communication with them.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: fuzzy on February 19, 2015, 12:10:35 pm
If they are selling it off, what happens to the snapshots and vested balances? I hope BM or someone is in communication with them.

I have reached out to them to get information on what is going on behind the scenes.  Lets see if I can get any traction.

Just let everyone to feel comfortable to discuss within this community. We lost many decent people already due to this very reason.
I honestly have no clue why anyone would not feel comfortable discussing anything in this community.  We are probably one of the most open communities with respect to this.  As for me--I never told anyone not to talk.  Please never take my statements that way. 

However, there is something to be said about running delegates to inflate the supply against people's will for something as unpopular as what many on this thread have termed a "bail out".  Add onto that the fact that some people even think I am interested in it to get back my own funds...and I think it is easy to see why I am against it. 
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: lil_jay890 on February 19, 2015, 12:36:49 pm
Wall street bailouts led to the biggest rally in the us stock market in history... I know many of you are zero hedge tinfoil hat people and think it's rigged, but you are rich if you bought stocks when the banks were bailed out.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: Helikopterben on February 19, 2015, 02:03:01 pm
Wall street bailouts led to the biggest rally in the us stock market in history... I know many of you are zero hedge tinfoil hat people and think it's rigged, but you are rich if you bought stocks when the banks were bailed out.

Wrong.  You would be rich if you had bought bitcoin when the banks were bailed out.  You would not have even tripled your money in stocks.  Google the greatest stock market rallies in history.  This one is not it.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: lil_jay890 on February 19, 2015, 02:19:40 pm
Wall street bailouts led to the biggest rally in the us stock market in history... I know many of you are zero hedge tinfoil hat people and think it's rigged, but you are rich if you bought stocks when the banks were bailed out.

Wrong.  You would be rich if you had bought bitcoin when the banks were bailed out.  You would not have even tripled your money in stocks.  Google the greatest stock market rallies in history.  This one is not it.

Not here to argue what the greatest investment in the world was from 2008 onward... Just saying the bailouts led to a huge rally in stocks and maybe a bailout here would lead to a similar result.

Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: Helikopterben on February 19, 2015, 03:08:22 pm
Wall street bailouts led to the biggest rally in the us stock market in history... I know many of you are zero hedge tinfoil hat people and think it's rigged, but you are rich if you bought stocks when the banks were bailed out.

Wrong.  You would be rich if you had bought bitcoin when the banks were bailed out.  You would not have even tripled your money in stocks.  Google the greatest stock market rallies in history.  This one is not it.

Not here to argue what the greatest investment in the world was from 2008 onward... Just saying the bailouts led to a huge rally in stocks and maybe a bailout here would lead to a similar result.

Well I will down vote a bailout delegate and I am sure others will to.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: merlin0113 on February 19, 2015, 03:15:43 pm
Wall street bailouts led to the biggest rally in the us stock market in history... I know many of you are zero hedge tinfoil hat people and think it's rigged, but you are rich if you bought stocks when the banks were bailed out.

Wrong.  You would be rich if you had bought bitcoin when the banks were bailed out.  You would not have even tripled your money in stocks.  Google the greatest stock market rallies in history.  This one is not it.

Not here to argue what the greatest investment in the world was from 2008 onward... Just saying the bailouts led to a huge rally in stocks and maybe a bailout here would lead to a similar result.

Well I will down vote a bailout delegate and I am sure others will to.

Exactly, we can always do that.

来自我的 M040 上的 Tapatalk

Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: nomoreheroes7 on February 19, 2015, 03:24:30 pm
Wall street bailouts led to the biggest rally in the us stock market in history... I know many of you are zero hedge tinfoil hat people and think it's rigged, but you are rich if you bought stocks when the banks were bailed out.

Wrong.  You would be rich if you had bought bitcoin when the banks were bailed out.  You would not have even tripled your money in stocks.  Google the greatest stock market rallies in history.  This one is not it.

Not here to argue what the greatest investment in the world was from 2008 onward... Just saying the bailouts led to a huge rally in stocks and maybe a bailout here would lead to a similar result.

Well I will down vote a bailout delegate and I am sure others will to.

Exactly, we can always do that.

来自我的 M040 上的 Tapatalk

I haven't looked too in-depth at voting, but I thought the rules were that you could only "approve" a delegate that you like, and it wasn't possible to "downvote" delegates you don't agree with...?

But yea, it's fairly obvious a delegate specifically for this wouldn't gain very wide approval. But that's the beauty of BitShares -- the delegate can be made and the shareholders can come to a consensus with their voting power. If the widespread consensus is against any kind of bailout, that will be shown through votes. Sounds fair to me.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: fluxer555 on February 19, 2015, 04:03:03 pm
However, there is something to be said about running delegates to inflate the supply against people's will for something as unpopular as what many on this thread have termed a "bail out".

Electing 'against people's will' is an oxymoron, if you define the will of the people as the majority vote. If the shareholders want it, it will happen, and the inverse is true as well.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: klosure on February 19, 2015, 06:18:30 pm
I have a new proposal. I'll develop more on that later, but here is the outline:
We create a bailout fund that will be funded by N delegates. Each time the fund receives delegate payments, it bugs bitBTC and airdrops it to BTER users who registered on Bitshares prorata of their lost BTC holding. This is litterally a vested bail out fund but the vesting schedule is dynamic and adjust with the BTS exchange rate.

No delegates. 

I do not support delegates because this forces people who are obviously against this idea to pay for something they hate.
Delegates are voted. If we create delegates for this fund and they are voted in, it unambiguously means that the majority supports such delegates in which case it was right to create them. If they are not voted in then nothing lost. No matter what is the topic at hand there will always be people opposing specific delegates for whatsoever reason and ending up having to pay for something they didn't aprove if the majority decides otherwise.

Let me play the devil's advocate: your delegate fuzzy... Was it voted in unanimously? If not are you paying back the stakeholders who didn't vote you in by airdropping on them their prorated share of your delegate income? If not where have gone your moral qualms about making minority stake holders pay for something they didn't approve?

Let's push that one notch further. I proposed a fund backed by N delegates. N is the adjustment variable to be modulated according to the majority's opinion of what would be a proper bail out and BTER's feedback on whether our vested bailout proposal would be deemed sufficient to takeover the brand. If appetite is moderate N could very well be 1. This would still be better than nothing for BTC holders and could result in a fast bailout should BTS value take off. 1 delegate would cost the same as you fuzzy. So now let me ask the question you know was coming: can you say with a straightface that your work for Bitshares brings more value than the entire BTER user base creating a Bitshares wallet, testing it and revisiting monthly to withdraw their monthly bail out installment?

Ok that was quite provocating but that was needed to put my point across. I know you are doing a great job fuzzy and deserve that delegate. The point I'm trying to make is that onboarding the entire BTER user base and keeping them coming back regularly would add tremendous value to the network that no single voted delegate would be able to emulate, specially after these have understood that they now have a vested interest in Bitshares success. That is well worth 1 delegate don't you think?

do not want to trade a user base over at BTER (who might simply bail and go to a competitor after they regain access to their funds) for an already loyal COMMUNITY here
There is no trading one thing for another. As  always the community will support whatever its majority has decided to do because that's the consensus on which Bitshares is based and something every stakeholder accepted when they joined Bitshare.
Regarding the BTER user base, what I propose forces them to be faithful since the bailout will unfold over a period of months to years depending on the price of BTS and the number of delegated given to the bail out fund. They will have to create a wallet and visit every so often to witdraw their accrued balance. This opens a good window of opportunity to try to convince them that Bitshares is worth their while and makes 80% of the distance from a prospect to a user.

Let people buy in if they want to.  Get contact with BTER
I will contact BTER once I have the funding nailed. Contacting them now to offer them nothing concrete is a waste of time. I also expect that they must be flooded by messages from their angry users so it will certainly help if the message is delivered through the usual official channel so that it doesn't end up being garbaged by a support staff.

Another thing I didn't have the time to explain earlier: since BTER is willing to hand over the brand and website and dissolve the company there won't be a need to keep the central exchange running with the same staff. That means we can transform BTER in whatever we want: a Bitshares centric exchange, a gateway.

If that happens I'm willing to roll my sleeves and help migrating BTER to a new Bitshares centric backend. But first we need to nail the funding aspect.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: lil_jay890 on February 19, 2015, 06:33:50 pm
It would be awesome if somehow we could do this with a UIA...  Send bitUSD to recieve a stake it bitBTER seems like a good way to raise the funds fast from people who want to bail out BTER.  That way you don't have to wait for the delegate to earn enough money to buy bter.  I'm guessing BTER will be gobbled up or liquidated within the next couple weeks.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: fuzzy on February 19, 2015, 07:00:43 pm
However, there is something to be said about running delegates to inflate the supply against people's will for something as unpopular as what many on this thread have termed a "bail out".

Electing 'against people's will' is an oxymoron, if you define the will of the people as the majority vote. If the shareholders want it, it will happen, and the inverse is true as well.

I said nothing of electing.  I said running.   Sure I could stand by silently and watch klosure waste money on registering a delegate that I am fairly certain won't get voted in.   But I might be wrong too...it might get voted in.   
Then again watch what happens to a core of our user base if that happens (especially if the results don't end well). 
I'm not advocating lighting the idea on fire and throwing it in the trash, mind you.   I'm advocating we take measured risks that don't make the heads of some of our most loyal user base blow up in anger.  A delegate is not the way to do this.   I'm personally against it and I have nearly all my personal bts at stake!

I've outlined how I think it should be done...in a way that puts the risks directly on those philosophically inclined to buying out BTER and does it in a way that gives those who take the risk a large portion of the benefit while giving the BitShare's ecosystem some level of Plausible Deniability when Inevitably all those posters with Dan and Stan's heads on communist Russia propaganda start becoming popular memes all over crypto.

The idea of buyng out BTER  could be hugely beneficial.   But I'm vehemently v against putting my eggs in one basket on this...and I have no problem saying so.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: donkeypong on February 19, 2015, 07:09:26 pm
Listen to Fuzzy. Running this delegate is a waste of money. Few people will support it and you'll have lost your fee.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: klosure on February 20, 2015, 12:43:21 am
I'm tired of trying to convince this community that having a customer base is critical or that the best time to acquire a business is when it's on the verge of failure. Dilution has been abused for all the wrong reasons but it won't be allowed for a good reason. Delegates are abused for all sorts of superficial matters but it won't be allocated to meaningful business moves like acquiring a customer base.

This the the second proposal I make that goes nowhere due to a total lack of perspective here. I proposed bridging Ripple to Bitshares to bring in liquidity and would have happily developed it myself but was opposed with libertarian rethoric that Ripple is centralized and bank friendly and therefore evil (nevermind the liquidity). Now people seem unable to see beyond the superficial of a failed exchange to look at its assets (nevermind the customer base, the liquidity, the ecosystem and the infrastructure).

This community really lacks business accumen and seems content maintaining the status quo. So be it. I wish you people all the best.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: hpenvy2 on February 20, 2015, 12:54:23 am


This community really lacks business accumen and seems content maintaining the status quo. So be it. I wish you people all the best.

Translation: If someone doesn't agree with your proposal, they lack business acumen. Okay.

I applaud you for coming up with the idea and making the attempt to gain support from the community.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: merlin0113 on February 20, 2015, 12:56:41 am
I'm tired of trying to convince this community that having a customer base is critical or that the best time to acquire a business is when it's on the verge of failure. Dilution has been abused for all the wrong reasons but it won't be allowed for a good reason. Delegates are abused for all sorts of superficial matters but it won't be allocated to meaningful business moves like acquiring a customer base.

This the the second proposal I make that goes nowhere due to a total lack of perspective here. I proposed bridging Ripple to Bitshares to bring in liquidity and would have happily developed it myself but was opposed with libertarian rethoric that Ripple is centralized and bank friendly and therefore evil (nevermind the liquidity). Now people seem unable to see beyond the superficial of a failed exchange to look at its assets (nevermind the customer base, the liquidity, the ecosystem and the infrastructure).

This community really lacks business accumen and seems content maintaining the status quo. So be it. I wish you people all the best.

I share your  frustration. At least you tried, and tried hard.
It's kinda funny that people who seldom(or reluctant to?) use the bts wallet has so much followers in the community.

来自我的 M040 上的 Tapatalk

Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: fuzzy on February 20, 2015, 01:01:26 am
I'm tired of trying to convince this community that having a customer base is critical or that the best time to acquire a business is when it's on the verge of failure. Dilution has been abused for all the wrong reasons but it won't be allowed for a good reason. Delegates are abused for all sorts of superficial matters but it won't be allocated to meaningful business moves like acquiring a customer base.

This the the second proposal I make that goes nowhere due to a total lack of perspective here. I proposed bridging Ripple to Bitshares to bring in liquidity and would have happily developed it myself but was opposed with libertarian rethoric that Ripple is centralized and bank friendly and therefore evil (nevermind the liquidity). Now people seem unable to see beyond the superficial of a failed exchange to look at its assets (nevermind the customer base, the liquidity, the ecosystem and the infrastructure).

This community really lacks business accumen and seems content maintaining the status quo. So be it. I wish you people all the best.

Klosure..Noone said not to do it. In fact I said Do It!  (Not that my opinion should matter if you intently disagree.)

It does not sound like you are here wanting to take the risk though. ..
It feels more like you are expecting everyone to be 100% for this.   It isn't going to happen...if that is what you are waiting for.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: merlin0113 on February 20, 2015, 01:09:49 am
I'm tired of trying to convince this community that having a customer base is critical or that the best time to acquire a business is when it's on the verge of failure. Dilution has been abused for all the wrong reasons but it won't be allowed for a good reason. Delegates are abused for all sorts of superficial matters but it won't be allocated to meaningful business moves like acquiring a customer base.

This the the second proposal I make that goes nowhere due to a total lack of perspective here. I proposed bridging Ripple to Bitshares to bring in liquidity and would have happily developed it myself but was opposed with libertarian rethoric that Ripple is centralized and bank friendly and therefore evil (nevermind the liquidity). Now people seem unable to see beyond the superficial of a failed exchange to look at its assets (nevermind the customer base, the liquidity, the ecosystem and the infrastructure).

This community really lacks business accumen and seems content maintaining the status quo. So be it. I wish you people all the best.

Klosure..Noone said not to do it. In fact I said Do It!  (Not that my opinion should matter if you intently disagree.

It does not sound like you are here wanting to take the risk though. ..
It feels more like you are expecting everyone to be 100% for this.   It isn't going to happen...if that is what you are waiting for.

Yes you said do it, and you said many other things also. So what?
Are you post this to claim Klosure is not capable of understanding your point?
Oh, please stop to post like this to HURT Klosure even more.
My respect to Klosure and to many Klosures in the past.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: hpenvy2 on February 20, 2015, 01:34:38 am
Wall street bailouts led to the biggest rally in the us stock market in history... I know many of you are zero hedge tinfoil hat people and think it's rigged, but you are rich if you bought stocks when the banks were bailed out.

Wrong.  You would be rich if you had bought bitcoin when the banks were bailed out.  You would not have even tripled your money in stocks.  Google the greatest stock market rallies in history.  This one is not it.

Not here to argue what the greatest investment in the world was from 2008 onward... Just saying the bailouts led to a huge rally in stocks and maybe a bailout here would lead to a similar result.

Well I will down vote a bailout delegate and I am sure others will to.

Exactly, we can always do that.

来自我的 M040 上的 Tapatalk

I haven't looked too in-depth at voting, but I thought the rules were that you could only "approve" a delegate that you like, and it wasn't possible to "downvote" delegates you don't agree with...?

But yea, it's fairly obvious a delegate specifically for this wouldn't gain very wide approval. But that's the beauty of BitShares -- the delegate can be made and the shareholders can come to a consensus with their voting power. If the widespread consensus is against any kind of bailout, that will be shown through votes. Sounds fair to me.

Yes! I don't understand how this isn't fair to others. If you believe in an idea, put your money behind and work to gain support.  You don't need anyone's permission or opinion for that matter.

Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: fuzzy on February 20, 2015, 01:36:12 am
I'm tired of trying to convince this community that having a customer base is critical or that the best time to acquire a business is when it's on the verge of failure. Dilution has been abused for all the wrong reasons but it won't be allowed for a good reason. Delegates are abused for all sorts of superficial matters but it won't be allocated to meaningful business moves like acquiring a customer base.

This the the second proposal I make that goes nowhere due to a total lack of perspective here. I proposed bridging Ripple to Bitshares to bring in liquidity and would have happily developed it myself but was opposed with libertarian rethoric that Ripple is centralized and bank friendly and therefore evil (nevermind the liquidity). Now people seem unable to see beyond the superficial of a failed exchange to look at its assets (nevermind the customer base, the liquidity, the ecosystem and the infrastructure).

This community really lacks business accumen and seems content maintaining the status quo. So be it. I wish you people all the best.

Klosure..Noone said not to do it. In fact I said Do It!  (Not that my opinion should matter if you intently disagree.

It does not sound like you are here wanting to take the risk though. ..
It feels more like you are expecting everyone to be 100% for this.   It isn't going to happen...if that is what you are waiting for.

Yes you said do it, and you said many other things also. So what?
Are you post this to claim Klosure is not capable of understanding your point?
Oh, please stop to post like this to HURT Klosure even more.
My respect to Klosure and to many Klosures in the past.

I am not sure what you mean.  Would you like to join me in mumble for a few?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: merlin0113 on February 20, 2015, 01:47:39 am
I'm tired of trying to convince this community that having a customer base is critical or that the best time to acquire a business is when it's on the verge of failure. Dilution has been abused for all the wrong reasons but it won't be allowed for a good reason. Delegates are abused for all sorts of superficial matters but it won't be allocated to meaningful business moves like acquiring a customer base.

This the the second proposal I make that goes nowhere due to a total lack of perspective here. I proposed bridging Ripple to Bitshares to bring in liquidity and would have happily developed it myself but was opposed with libertarian rethoric that Ripple is centralized and bank friendly and therefore evil (nevermind the liquidity). Now people seem unable to see beyond the superficial of a failed exchange to look at its assets (nevermind the customer base, the liquidity, the ecosystem and the infrastructure).

This community really lacks business accumen and seems content maintaining the status quo. So be it. I wish you people all the best.

Klosure..Noone said not to do it. In fact I said Do It!  (Not that my opinion should matter if you intently disagree.

It does not sound like you are here wanting to take the risk though. ..
It feels more like you are expecting everyone to be 100% for this.   It isn't going to happen...if that is what you are waiting for.

Yes you said do it, and you said many other things also. So what?
Are you post this to claim Klosure is not capable of understanding your point?
Oh, please stop to post like this to HURT Klosure even more.
My respect to Klosure and to many Klosures in the past.

I am not sure what you mean.  Would you like to join me in mumble for a few?

My point is perhaps communicate skills. I'm with you on many many issues fuzzy, even on this buyout one. But often you are a bit offensive and a bit lack of respect of others. actually maybe it's the whole community "problem". I'm a little picky on you, because I have high expectation on you. Sorry for confusion。
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: fuzzy on February 20, 2015, 02:06:54 am
I'm tired of trying to convince this community that having a customer base is critical or that the best time to acquire a business is when it's on the verge of failure. Dilution has been abused for all the wrong reasons but it won't be allowed for a good reason. Delegates are abused for all sorts of superficial matters but it won't be allocated to meaningful business moves like acquiring a customer base.

This the the second proposal I make that goes nowhere due to a total lack of perspective here. I proposed bridging Ripple to Bitshares to bring in liquidity and would have happily developed it myself but was opposed with libertarian rethoric that Ripple is centralized and bank friendly and therefore evil (nevermind the liquidity). Now people seem unable to see beyond the superficial of a failed exchange to look at its assets (nevermind the customer base, the liquidity, the ecosystem and the infrastructure).

This community really lacks business accumen and seems content maintaining the status quo. So be it. I wish you people all the best.

Klosure..Noone said not to do it. In fact I said Do It!  (Not that my opinion should matter if you intently disagree.

It does not sound like you are here wanting to take the risk though. ..
It feels more like you are expecting everyone to be 100% for this.   It isn't going to happen...if that is what you are waiting for.

Yes you said do it, and you said many other things also. So what?
Are you post this to claim Klosure is not capable of understanding your point?
Oh, please stop to post like this to HURT Klosure even more.
My respect to Klosure and to many Klosures in the past.

I am not sure what you mean.  Would you like to join me in mumble for a few?

My point is perhaps communicate skills. I'm with you on many many issues fuzzy, even on this buyout one. But often you are a bit offensive and a bit lack of respect of others. actually maybe it's the whole community "problem". I'm a little picky on you, because I have high expectation on you. Sorry for confusion。

Or maybe it is that we are using forums where tone of voice is absent along with a number of other communication inefficiencies

I'll just track this up to "you can't make everyone happy all the time".

I'll be on mumble later tonight if anyone has "beef" ;P
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: hpenvy2 on February 20, 2015, 02:58:26 am
I'm tired of trying to convince this community that having a customer base is critical or that the best time to acquire a business is when it's on the verge of failure. Dilution has been abused for all the wrong reasons but it won't be allowed for a good reason. Delegates are abused for all sorts of superficial matters but it won't be allocated to meaningful business moves like acquiring a customer base.

This the the second proposal I make that goes nowhere due to a total lack of perspective here. I proposed bridging Ripple to Bitshares to bring in liquidity and would have happily developed it myself but was opposed with libertarian rethoric that Ripple is centralized and bank friendly and therefore evil (nevermind the liquidity). Now people seem unable to see beyond the superficial of a failed exchange to look at its assets (nevermind the customer base, the liquidity, the ecosystem and the infrastructure).

This community really lacks business accumen and seems content maintaining the status quo. So be it. I wish you people all the best.

Klosure..Noone said not to do it. In fact I said Do It!  (Not that my opinion should matter if you intently disagree.

It does not sound like you are here wanting to take the risk though. ..
It feels more like you are expecting everyone to be 100% for this.   It isn't going to happen...if that is what you are waiting for.

Yes you said do it, and you said many other things also. So what?
Are you post this to claim Klosure is not capable of understanding your point?
Oh, please stop to post like this to HURT Klosure even more.
My respect to Klosure and to many Klosures in the past.

I am not sure what you mean.  Would you like to join me in mumble for a few?

My point is perhaps communicate skills. I'm with you on many many issues fuzzy, even on this buyout one. But often you are a bit offensive and a bit lack of respect of others. actually maybe it's the whole community "problem". I'm a little picky on you, because I have high expectation on you. Sorry for confusion。

Interesting. I find you a bit offensive and feel Fuzzy is often a calming voice in a sea of Jerry Springer on the forums. Different opinions I assume.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: merlin0113 on February 20, 2015, 03:03:43 am
I'm tired of trying to convince this community that having a customer base is critical or that the best time to acquire a business is when it's on the verge of failure. Dilution has been abused for all the wrong reasons but it won't be allowed for a good reason. Delegates are abused for all sorts of superficial matters but it won't be allocated to meaningful business moves like acquiring a customer base.

This the the second proposal I make that goes nowhere due to a total lack of perspective here. I proposed bridging Ripple to Bitshares to bring in liquidity and would have happily developed it myself but was opposed with libertarian rethoric that Ripple is centralized and bank friendly and therefore evil (nevermind the liquidity). Now people seem unable to see beyond the superficial of a failed exchange to look at its assets (nevermind the customer base, the liquidity, the ecosystem and the infrastructure).

This community really lacks business accumen and seems content maintaining the status quo. So be it. I wish you people all the best.

Klosure..Noone said not to do it. In fact I said Do It!  (Not that my opinion should matter if you intently disagree.

It does not sound like you are here wanting to take the risk though. ..
It feels more like you are expecting everyone to be 100% for this.   It isn't going to happen...if that is what you are waiting for.

Yes you said do it, and you said many other things also. So what?
Are you post this to claim Klosure is not capable of understanding your point?
Oh, please stop to post like this to HURT Klosure even more.
My respect to Klosure and to many Klosures in the past.

I am not sure what you mean.  Would you like to join me in mumble for a few?

My point is perhaps communicate skills. I'm with you on many many issues fuzzy, even on this buyout one. But often you are a bit offensive and a bit lack of respect of others. actually maybe it's the whole community "problem". I'm a little picky on you, because I have high expectation on you. Sorry for confusion。

Interesting. I find you a bit offensive and feel Fuzzy is often a calming voice in a sea of Jerry Springer on the forums. Different opinions I assume.

I should say sometimes I'm rude, sorry for that!
Partially because I'm very very depressed under BTS's low price.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: klosure on February 20, 2015, 06:04:48 am
 
I've outlined how I think it should be done...in a way that puts the risks directly on those philosophically inclined to buying out BTER and does it in a way that gives those who take the risk a large portion of the benefit while giving the BitShare's ecosystem some level of Plausible Deniability when Inevitably all those posters with Dan and Stan's heads on communist Russia propaganda start becoming popular memes all over crypto.
You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either the community makes some commitments and stands to benefit from initiatives. Or it doesn't and then things don't happen and people move on.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: klosure on February 20, 2015, 06:13:56 am
Klosure..Noone said not to do it. In fact I said Do It!  (Not that my opinion should matter if you intently disagree.)

It does not sound like you are here wanting to take the risk though. ..
I have no reason or incentive to take risks if I get no support. Done my market research on this forum. The result is: not gonna work. Time to cut the loss and move on, I have wasted more time than I was planning trying to ignite that discussion.

The bottom line is that without two large exchanges the little alpha that existed on Bitshares is gone. Creating a Ripple bridge or acquiring BTER were the two big tickets items that could have kept the hearbeat going and made Bitshares worth trading on.

I'll keep a tab on how things are moving here but given the sample of inertia I have just witnessed I'm not expecting miracles.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: jsidhu on February 20, 2015, 06:21:40 am
Its a bad business model.. U shouldnt throw good money after bad.. Itll goto waste..central exchsnges are a thing of the past.. If we want to buy users we can do it in more efficient ways
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: liondani on February 20, 2015, 10:01:47 am
https://twitter.com/btercom/status/567987938341953536
Verkimpe Mike ‏@verkimpe_mike 21h21 hours ago
@btercom second wallet being moved https://blockchain.info/en/address/1Foex8UKai3FMqXzNaQj28MBVmksZ7eJRK … previous cleared wallet https://blockchain.info/en/address/1GFX81qZpYNg1m3KxqyUDD4pBT5w8uiMvg … 5 to go

2000 BTC already moved from 2 addresses  >:( :(

Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: Frodo on February 21, 2015, 07:30:34 am
Update from @btercom

Quote
We are preparing for the withdrawals. CNY, USD and NXT withdrawals will be handled first.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: sumantso on February 21, 2015, 07:59:32 am
Quote
We are preparing for the withdrawals. CNY, USD and NXT withdrawals will be handled first.

No mention of BTS, and add to that the confusion of snapshots/vested balances.
I hope any of our dev is trying to get in touch.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: hpenvy2 on February 21, 2015, 08:34:40 am
Quote
We are preparing for the withdrawals. CNY, USD and NXT withdrawals will be handled first.

No mention of BTS, and add to that the confusion of snapshots/vested balances.
I hope any of our dev is trying to get in touch.

 +5%
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: TurkeyLeg on February 21, 2015, 12:49:07 pm
I'm tired of trying to convince this community that having a customer base is critical or that the best time to acquire a business is when it's on the verge of failure. Dilution has been abused for all the wrong reasons but it won't be allowed for a good reason. Delegates are abused for all sorts of superficial matters but it won't be allocated to meaningful business moves like acquiring a customer base.

This the the second proposal I make that goes nowhere due to a total lack of perspective here. I proposed bridging Ripple to Bitshares to bring in liquidity and would have happily developed it myself but was opposed with libertarian rethoric that Ripple is centralized and bank friendly and therefore evil (nevermind the liquidity). Now people seem unable to see beyond the superficial of a failed exchange to look at its assets (nevermind the customer base, the liquidity, the ecosystem and the infrastructure).

This community really lacks business accumen and seems content maintaining the status quo. So be it. I wish you people all the best.

I'm HODL or Bust with my small fortune of BTS, but Klosure makes some valid points here.  +5%
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: LRENZ on February 21, 2015, 12:53:23 pm
Bter back online!
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: lil_jay890 on February 21, 2015, 02:03:16 pm
Woohoo!!! The bitshares selling can resume...
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: btcxyzzz on February 21, 2015, 03:39:28 pm
What does your balance say after you login to bter.com ? Mine is completely broken. Was there a mess with user IDs?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: fluxer555 on February 21, 2015, 03:40:18 pm
They are only allowing USD, CNY, and NXT withdrawals currently.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Community members discuss buyout
Post by: Akado on February 21, 2015, 03:48:59 pm
Another thing I didn't have the time to explain earlier: since BTER is willing to hand over the brand and website and dissolve the company there won't be a need to keep the central exchange running with the same staff. That means we can transform BTER in whatever we want: a Bitshares centric exchange, a gateway.

If that happens I'm willing to roll my sleeves and help migrating BTER to a new Bitshares centric backend. But first we need to nail the funding aspect.

Tbh that sounds nice. And even better if after that each member could purchase part of bter in the BitShares client and receiving part of the profits the exchange would make
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: LRENZ on February 21, 2015, 03:58:08 pm
They are only allowing USD, CNY, and NXT withdrawals currently.

Yes that's what they say but if you click to withdraw one of them it says disabled. This could take some time at this rate.. ughhhh
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: NewMine on February 21, 2015, 06:05:43 pm
Why don't you buy mtgox?

There is your answer.

Pull your fucking heads out of your ass and kill this thread. Nobody is going to do business with any incarnation of bter now.

If you truly believe buying an insolvent company is the best time to buy it, then riddle me this: who bought Lehman Brothers or Enron?

Bter has exactly 1 asset; their name. Only the dumbest person on the planet would pay anything more than a buck for it as it's is a tainted name and may only have slight posterity, sentimental, or bragging rights in its worth.

Bter lost over $1.7 million worth of bitcoin at the time of the theft. Double that number if bitcoin skyrockets to  $500 per. 

Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: liondani on February 21, 2015, 10:37:47 pm
Woohoo!!! The bitshares selling can resume...
-5%

Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 997D

Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: fuzzy on February 22, 2015, 12:43:07 pm
Why don't you buy mtgox?

There is your answer.

Pull your fucking heads out of your ass and kill this thread. Nobody is going to do business with any incarnation of bter now.

If you truly believe buying an insolvent company is the best time to buy it, then riddle me this: who bought Lehman Brothers or Enron?

Bter has exactly 1 asset; their name. Only the dumbest person on the planet would pay anything more than a buck for it as it's is a tainted name and may only have slight posterity, sentimental, or bragging rights in its worth.

Bter lost over $1.7 million worth of bitcoin at the time of the theft. Double that number if bitcoin skyrockets to  $500 per.
Or who bought Bear Stearns?  JP Morgan did.  JP Morgan became bigger and more powerful from the deal...took the assets that needed to be shed and sold them, and kept the rest for themselves.

Mind you I'm not a big fan of them, but it is true.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: Helikopterben on February 22, 2015, 03:45:26 pm
Why don't you buy mtgox?

There is your answer.

Pull your fucking heads out of your ass and kill this thread. Nobody is going to do business with any incarnation of bter now.

If you truly believe buying an insolvent company is the best time to buy it, then riddle me this: who bought Lehman Brothers or Enron?

Bter has exactly 1 asset; their name. Only the dumbest person on the planet would pay anything more than a buck for it as it's is a tainted name and may only have slight posterity, sentimental, or bragging rights in its worth.

Bter lost over $1.7 million worth of bitcoin at the time of the theft. Double that number if bitcoin skyrockets to  $500 per.
Or who bought Bear Stearns?  JP Morgan did.  JP Morgan became bigger and more powerful from the deal...took the assets that needed to be shed and sold them, and kept the rest for themselves.

Mind you I'm not a big fan of them, but it is true.

JP Morgan also got freshly printed fiat for their troubles.  At that point, people chose security over freedom.  Interestingly, Satoshi gave us bitcoin around the same point in time, for those of us who wanted to choose freedom. 

If we could get some freshly printed btc for our troubles, I would say go for it.  Fortunately, crypto doesn't work that way.  Solutions to these problems are required to be free market in nature.  In this case, bter will most likely have to be expunged from the system. 
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: fuzzy on February 22, 2015, 04:20:39 pm
Why don't you buy mtgox?

There is your answer.

Pull your fucking heads out of your ass and kill this thread. Nobody is going to do business with any incarnation of bter now.

If you truly believe buying an insolvent company is the best time to buy it, then riddle me this: who bought Lehman Brothers or Enron?

Bter has exactly 1 asset; their name. Only the dumbest person on the planet would pay anything more than a buck for it as it's is a tainted name and may only have slight posterity, sentimental, or bragging rights in its worth.

Bter lost over $1.7 million worth of bitcoin at the time of the theft. Double that number if bitcoin skyrockets to  $500 per.
Or who bought Bear Stearns?  JP Morgan did.  JP Morgan became bigger and more powerful from the deal...took the assets that needed to be shed and sold them, and kept the rest for themselves.

Mind you I'm not a big fan of them, but it is true.

JP Morgan also got freshly printed fiat for their troubles.  At that point, people chose security over freedom.  Interestingly, Satoshi gave us bitcoin around the same point in time, for those of us who wanted to choose freedom. 

If we could get some freshly printed btc for our troubles, I would say go for it.  Fortunately, crypto doesn't work that way.  Solutions to these problems are required to be free market in nature.  In this case, bter will most likely have to be expunged from the system.

I actually believe the crisis was engineered so "Satoshi" could create bitcoin to usher in a New World Currency that would be ultimately controlled by the same people. 

I mean do we really think that Satoshi is still in danger when we have so many people openly working in crypto?  It is all the Hegelian Dialectic man:  Create the problem knowing you already have the solution that benefits you most ready for launch.  Then when people are crying out for someone to fix the problem, you drop in the trojan horse to "fix it" for them. 
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: onceuponatime on February 22, 2015, 04:38:38 pm
Why don't you buy mtgox?

There is your answer.

Pull your fucking heads out of your ass and kill this thread. Nobody is going to do business with any incarnation of bter now.

If you truly believe buying an insolvent company is the best time to buy it, then riddle me this: who bought Lehman Brothers or Enron?

Bter has exactly 1 asset; their name. Only the dumbest person on the planet would pay anything more than a buck for it as it's is a tainted name and may only have slight posterity, sentimental, or bragging rights in its worth.

Bter lost over $1.7 million worth of bitcoin at the time of the theft. Double that number if bitcoin skyrockets to  $500 per.
Or who bought Bear Stearns?  JP Morgan did.  JP Morgan became bigger and more powerful from the deal...took the assets that needed to be shed and sold them, and kept the rest for themselves.

Mind you I'm not a big fan of them, but it is true.

JP Morgan also got freshly printed fiat for their troubles.  At that point, people chose security over freedom.  Interestingly, Satoshi gave us bitcoin around the same point in time, for those of us who wanted to choose freedom. 

If we could get some freshly printed btc for our troubles, I would say go for it.  Fortunately, crypto doesn't work that way.  Solutions to these problems are required to be free market in nature.  In this case, bter will most likely have to be expunged from the system.

I actually believe the crisis was engineered so "Satoshi" could create bitcoin to usher in a New World Currency that would be ultimately controlled by the same people. 

I mean do we really think that Satoshi is still in danger when we have so many people openly working in crypto?  It is all the Hegelian Dialectic man:  Create the problem knowing you already have the solution that benefits you most ready for launch.  Then when people are crying out for someone to fix the problem, you drop in the trojan horse to "fix it" for them.

That is a possibility, one amongst many. So it is good to hold on to our beliefs lightly and our principles tightly. Then we won't go wrong.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: fuzzy on February 22, 2015, 04:58:42 pm
True true wise man. ;)
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: CapR on February 22, 2015, 11:18:46 pm
http://www.coindesk.com/bter-unable-to-repay-customers-following-alleged-exchange-heist/

What chance is there Bter will still  honor the DACs for its customers who had BTS deposited on their exchange during snapshots?  Since Bter doesn't have the funds to reimburse their customers, they might have to sell the exchange.

Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: NewMine on February 22, 2015, 11:19:45 pm
Why don't you buy mtgox?

There is your answer.

Pull your fucking heads out of your ass and kill this thread. Nobody is going to do business with any incarnation of bter now.

If you truly believe buying an insolvent company is the best time to buy it, then riddle me this: who bought Lehman Brothers or Enron?

Bter has exactly 1 asset; their name. Only the dumbest person on the planet would pay anything more than a buck for it as it's is a tainted name and may only have slight posterity, sentimental, or bragging rights in its worth.

Bter lost over $1.7 million worth of bitcoin at the time of the theft. Double that number if bitcoin skyrockets to  $500 per.
Or who bought Bear Stearns?  JP Morgan did.  JP Morgan became bigger and more powerful from the deal...took the assets that needed to be shed and sold them, and kept the rest for themselves.

Mind you I'm not a big fan of them, but it is true.

Bear Stearns was not insolvent. Investors lost faith/confidence as rumors of liquidity issues were coming out.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on February 23, 2015, 01:17:14 am
That is a possibility, one amongst many. So it is good to hold on to our beliefs lightly and our principles tightly. Then we won't go wrong.

Thats a quotable right there. :)  +5%
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: fuzzy on February 23, 2015, 05:43:47 am
Why don't you buy mtgox?

There is your answer.

Pull your fucking heads out of your ass and kill this thread. Nobody is going to do business with any incarnation of bter now.

If you truly believe buying an insolvent company is the best time to buy it, then riddle me this: who bought Lehman Brothers or Enron?

Bter has exactly 1 asset; their name. Only the dumbest person on the planet would pay anything more than a buck for it as it's is a tainted name and may only have slight posterity, sentimental, or bragging rights in its worth.

Bter lost over $1.7 million worth of bitcoin at the time of the theft. Double that number if bitcoin skyrockets to  $500 per.
Or who bought Bear Stearns?  JP Morgan did.  JP Morgan became bigger and more powerful from the deal...took the assets that needed to be shed and sold them, and kept the rest for themselves.

Mind you I'm not a big fan of them, but it is true.

Bear Stearns was not insolvent. Investors lost faith/confidence as rumors of liquidity issues were coming out.

Any numbers you get on Bear Stearns are likely cooked and worthless for this part of the discussion.  :/
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: btcxyzzz on February 23, 2015, 05:49:13 am
I actually believe the crisis was engineered so "Satoshi" could create bitcoin to usher in a New World Currency that would be ultimately controlled by the same people. 

I fail to see how Bitcoin is a New World Currency controlled by the same paople, really. Care to explain?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: Ander on February 23, 2015, 07:29:15 pm
I actually believe the crisis was engineered so "Satoshi" could create bitcoin to usher in a New World Currency that would be ultimately controlled by the same people. 

I fail to see how Bitcoin is a New World Currency controlled by the same paople, really. Care to explain?

Its because fuzzy is a conspiracy theorist who doesnt need actual evidence in order to believe something.  :P
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: btcxyzzz on February 23, 2015, 07:36:21 pm
Its because fuzzy is a conspiracy theorist who doesnt need actual evidence in order to believe something.  :P

Count me in conspiracy theorists too, but Bitcoin is a cure for NWO, not their friend.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: liondani on February 23, 2015, 08:00:38 pm
Its because fuzzy is a conspiracy theorist who doesnt need actual evidence in order to believe something.  :P

Count me in conspiracy theorists too, but Bitcoin is a cure for NWO, not their friend.

result oriented we must agree with fuzz!
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: fuzzy on February 24, 2015, 05:03:04 pm
I actually believe the crisis was engineered so "Satoshi" could create bitcoin to usher in a New World Currency that would be ultimately controlled by the same people. 

I fail to see how Bitcoin is a New World Currency controlled by the same paople, really. Care to explain?

Its because fuzzy is a conspiracy theorist who doesnt need actual evidence in order to believe something.  :P

When you own the system you make the numbers exactly what you want them to be.  If you don't believe me,  look at the cpi and how those statistics are manipulated.

Or if you want real evidence of "conspiracies" (btw, I love how people give the term "conspiracy" the same credence as they would the word unicorn...as though they don't exist. ..lol) check out libor.  Or go read up on the 28 classified pages of the 911 report that implicate Saudi Involvement.  People conspire my friend.  And there is ample evidence that big institutions like Bear Stearns and others were doing fraudulent activity (aka conspiring to make things look on the surface to be something they weren't). When the housing market collapsed so did their house of cards.

Its because fuzzy is a conspiracy theorist who doesnt need actual evidence in order to believe something.  :P

Count me in conspiracy theorists too, but Bitcoin is a cure for NWO, not their friend.

Blockchain tech is only a tool. Just like the internet,  it can be used to empower or to enslave.   The choice really comes down to our ultimate motivations.
I have a saying: "the emergence of a New World Order is inevitable. .. the question is who will control it; the people or the elite."

That is actually why I have chosen to help bitshares...though losing TITAN concerns me.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: rgnrk87 on February 24, 2015, 10:40:59 pm
I need help. Withdraws are open on bter and I currently have CNY in my account but I don't have a chinese bank account. Any way I can get my money out? Thanks
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: Markus on February 24, 2015, 11:40:38 pm
I guess you will have to find a Chinese guy to take them. Transfer them to him as a BterCode (assuming that still works) and let him pay you with BitCNY or whatever else you agree on.

BTW, I have the same problem.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: konelectric on February 25, 2015, 12:01:50 am
I need help. Withdraws are open on bter and I currently have CNY in my account but I don't have a chinese bank account. Any way I can get my money out? Thanks

Couldn't you trade it for USD, then withdraw the USD?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: neo1344 on February 25, 2015, 12:05:10 am
I need help. Withdraws are open on bter and I currently have CNY in my account but I don't have a chinese bank account. Any way I can get my money out? Thanks
What?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: Tuck Fheman on February 25, 2015, 12:50:26 am

When you own the system you make the numbers exactly what you want them to be.  If you don't believe me,  look at the cpi and how those statistics are manipulated.

Or if you want real evidence of "conspiracies" (btw, I love how people give the term "conspiracy" the same credence as they would the word unicorn...as though they don't exist. ..lol) check out libor.  Or go read up on the 28 classified pages of the 911 report that implicate Saudi Involvement.  People conspire my friend. 


Whoooooaaa now, you're starting to sound like muh blog.

(https://31.media.tumblr.com/57d7d3a3003cc495a041f51281038aa4/tumblr_nkayanchyY1rtef2wo1_500.gif)
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: jsidhu on February 25, 2015, 01:33:50 am
So by BTC balance on bter is > 0.. is it possible my account still has the BTC? Anyone get any BTC out?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: Ander on February 25, 2015, 02:16:37 am
So by BTC balance on bter is > 0.. is it possible my account still has the BTC? Anyone get any BTC out?

The only thing anyone has gotten out so far is CNY, because nothing else is enabled. 
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: joele on February 25, 2015, 03:25:48 am
Smart moves to release first the CNY to prevent any local legal complaints.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Bter resumes limited operation
Post by: liondani on February 25, 2015, 10:07:11 am
Smart moves to release first the CNY to prevent any local legal complaints.

hope they don't have sell all our coins for CNY...
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY and USD withdrawal enabled
Post by: cube on February 25, 2015, 10:48:12 am
USD withdrawal is enabled!

Bter is tracking down the thief who used a mixer to hide his stolen coins.

From Bter -

"Please help us to get touch with the BitcoinFog (http://www.bitcoinfog.com ,http://foggeddriztrcar2.onion ) operator. Email us at: admin@mail.bter.com."
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY and USD withdrawal enabled
Post by: joele on February 25, 2015, 10:56:42 am
If you are the hacker and have altcoins in bter, do you still withdraw your altcoins?  ;)
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY and USD withdrawal enabled
Post by: Tuck Fheman on February 25, 2015, 12:58:18 pm
If you are the hacker and have altcoins in bter, do you still withdraw your altcoins?  ;)

Considering they're more viable than CNY/USD and that BTer obviously has some securitah/oversight/mole issues ... sure!  ;D
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY and USD withdrawal enabled
Post by: cube on February 27, 2015, 09:04:52 am
Someone sent me this interesting article. Bter got 85% of its stolen NXT during the NXT hack via a negotiator. I hope a similar negotiation is underway and bter would not only survive this crisis but grow stronger from it.

http://cointelegraph.com/news/112356/exclusive-key-negotiator-in-bter-nxt-hack-speaks-out
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY and USD withdrawal enabled
Post by: hpenvy2 on February 27, 2015, 08:15:40 pm
Someone sent me this interesting article. Bter got 85% of its stolen NXT during the NXT hack via a negotiator. I hope a similar negotiation is underway and bter would not only survive this crisis but grow stronger from it.

http://cointelegraph.com/news/112356/exclusive-key-negotiator-in-bter-nxt-hack-speaks-out

Exchanging a low liquidity alt for Bitcoin makes perfect sense for the hacker. Unfortunately stealing BTC directly is our worse case scenario. There's nothing to negotiate. If the hacker cleaned out 5 million in alts I'd feel much better about our chances for recovery.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY and USD withdrawal enabled
Post by: Tuck Fheman on February 27, 2015, 08:49:57 pm
Someone sent me this interesting article. Bter got 85% of its stolen NXT during the NXT hack via a negotiator. I hope a similar negotiation is underway and bter would not only survive this crisis but grow stronger from it.

http://cointelegraph.com/news/112356/exclusive-key-negotiator-in-bter-nxt-hack-speaks-out

Why not just steal 15% of what they have and be done with it? That entire story never made any sense to me personally.

"You know what <insert your favorite hacker name and read in your favorite hacker voice>, I've been thinking. Instead of stealing the coins outright and keeping them, how about we setup a lengthy negotiation process with them that will drag out for months? I mean, we've gotten away with the heist, it's just too easy. Let's **** that **** all up and put ourselves at risk by giving some of it back, thereby creating some good will so our hax0r PR Dept doesn't have to work so hard keeping our image up in the eyes of the laymen? Most of the American's that lost money already blame Obama, it will be a good move for us."

I just don't buy it. But ... who knows.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY and USD withdrawal enabled
Post by: gamey on February 27, 2015, 10:03:38 pm

I'm fairly certain I had like $200 bitUSD on bter that is no longer listed.. Has anyone else had issues with bitUSD?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY and USD withdrawal enabled
Post by: LRENZ on February 27, 2015, 11:38:20 pm
"We have handled a large volume of CNY and USD withdrawals and we are going to handle the altcoins in the next step"

https://twitter.com/btercom/status/571382510073966592

Hopefully sometime this year..

Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY and USD withdrawal enabled
Post by: zerosum on February 27, 2015, 11:43:03 pm
"We have handled a large volume of CNY and USD withdrawals and we are going to handle the altcoins in the next step"

https://twitter.com/btercom/status/571382510073966592

Hopefully sometime this year..

It better be soon... I need my LottoShares fast!
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY and USD withdrawal enabled
Post by: LRENZ on February 28, 2015, 04:32:43 am
[Statement] "bter domain name has been sold, priced at $ 10,000" for the rumors. Think about it a little difficult to identify the stupid rumors, we deal with the past few days have been actively millions of CNY and USD withdrawals, cash amount is reduced to $ 1, to ensure that all information is correctly filled withdrawals less than 24 hours to arrive, how can we will order 10,000 dollars (about 60,000 CNY) to sell the domain name, on foot? CNY mention is progressing well, we will soon deal with virtual currency withdrawals."

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://weibo.cn/repost/C6k1fvqDc%3Fuid%3D3969398100%26rl%3D0&usg=ALkJrhg4upt9m4CZTH2mYAxE5R-xYHCT9Q

Google translation not helping haha are they saying its been sold for 10k or that's just a rumour? I guess they just denying a rumour, 10k is cheap even for this crap exchange
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY and USD withdrawal enabled
Post by: cube on February 28, 2015, 04:58:40 am
A better translation is :

There was a rumour about bter selling its domain name for USD10K.  Bter has cleared a large number of withdrawal recently. It would not sell its name and run away for just 10 grand.  CNY withdrawl is smooth and they will handle virtual currencies withdrawal soon.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY and USD withdrawal enabled
Post by: LRENZ on February 28, 2015, 05:03:49 am
Haha OK thanks
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY and USD withdrawal enabled. Bter rumour quashed
Post by: LRENZ on February 28, 2015, 05:22:37 am
"We are now handling NXT assets (SuperNET, etc.) withdrawals"

www.twitter.com/btercom

PROGRESS !!!

Not BTS yet tho
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY and USD withdrawal enabled. Bter rumour quashed
Post by: joele on February 28, 2015, 06:01:19 am
No BTS yet, I'm getting nervous here
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY and USD withdrawal enabled. Bter rumour quashed
Post by: btcxyzzz on February 28, 2015, 06:36:44 am
NXT diminished, some crapcoins inserted...?! Is that some more buying of time?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY and USD withdrawal enabled. Bter rumour quashed
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on February 28, 2015, 06:58:30 am
I am sort of confused by these pieces of bter working while others are not. They are operating as though their site had been deleted and they are slowly restoring it back to its previous functionality. I don't understand how a cold wallet theft should impact everything else the way it has. Shutdown BTC transactions.. allow everything else to carry on.. why not?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY and USD withdrawal enabled. Bter rumour quashed
Post by: Ander on February 28, 2015, 10:16:39 am
I am sort of confused by these pieces of bter working while others are not. They are operating as though their site had been deleted and they are slowly restoring it back to its previous functionality. I don't understand how a cold wallet theft should impact everything else the way it has. Shutdown BTC transactions.. allow everything else to carry on.. why not?

They werent sure that things were operating correctly, so they arent enabling withdrawals on any item until they verify that its working correctly first. 
Its quite possible that altcoin withdrawals were broken, but the hacker didnt bother with them, he just went for the big prize (BTC).  When you steal $1.6M in bitcoin, you dont worry about whether you can steal a couple hundred k worth of a few altcoins, you are only worried about getting away safely with your bitcoins.

So they probably have to fix the problem, and then they can safely allow altcoin withdrawals.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY and USD withdrawal enabled. Bter rumour quashed
Post by: jnporter099 on February 28, 2015, 04:57:01 pm
Hello. I had a good bit of BTS on Bter. They gave out bonuses of some BTS "assets..??" called "Play" and something else in the November-December timeframe. How do I withdraw and save these things? I really don't know anything about them. I have the BTS wllet installed and working on a computer to withdraw my BTS if/when that becomes possible but don't know if these other "shares" are worth anything. Advice? Thanks.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY and USD withdrawal enabled. Bter rumour quashed
Post by: hpenvy2 on February 28, 2015, 05:32:05 pm
Hello. I had a good bit of BTS on Bter. They gave out bonuses of some BTS "assets..??" called "Play" and something else in the November-December timeframe. How do I withdraw and save these things? I really don't know anything about them. I have the BTS wllet installed and working on a computer to withdraw my BTS if/when that becomes possible but don't know if these other "shares" are worth anything. Advice? Thanks.

Unfortunately we are in a wait and see mode. It's all in the hands of BTER.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY and USD withdrawal enabled. Bter rumour quashed
Post by: agauronskis on February 28, 2015, 06:19:54 pm
Has anyone managed to withdraw USD so far?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal enabled
Post by: cube on March 01, 2015, 12:48:08 pm
NXT assets (SuperNET, etc.) withdrawal enabled.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal enabled
Post by: 38PTSWarrior on March 01, 2015, 01:04:32 pm
I also have a little bit on Bter. I didn*t sign in since I read about the hack and hope everything will be alright *smoke*
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal enabled
Post by: vlight on March 02, 2015, 01:09:12 pm
https://twitter.com/btercom/status/572372272536662017

Does this mean that they will not allow to withdraw any other altcoins until they rebuild their backend? Why they left this open for speculation?   :-X
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal enabled
Post by: LRENZ on March 02, 2015, 01:31:12 pm
https://twitter.com/btercom/status/572372272536662017

Does this mean that they will not allow to withdraw any other altcoins until they rebuild their backend? Why they left this open for speculation?   :-X

I think so. I can't put into words how much hate I have towards bter staff right now. I have waited ages already and now we could be waiting months more. :(
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: cube on March 02, 2015, 05:37:21 pm
Bter: "我们决定与合作伙伴一起重构比特儿后台,彻底解决虚拟币钱包安全问题,重启比特儿运营,提供更多功能更好的服务,偿还用户损失。更多细节很快发布,真心感谢您的支持。"

We decided to work with our partners to rebuild the backend platform, completely resolve the wallet issue, reactivate bter operation. We would provide more features with better services, repair users' losses. More details to come. Sincerely, thank you for your support.

Bter: "We have decided to rebuild BTER's backend, completely solve the wallets security issue and re-enable all the tradings."

I am talking this positively. The were having issues with the wallet security and that is probably why could not release the altcoins. Now bter wants to be back in operation. This is tremendous good news.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: Ander on March 02, 2015, 05:46:30 pm
This shouldve been the first thing they announced.  Like Bitstamp did.

It also provides hope of partial recovery to those who lost their BTC.  If they resume operations and survive, they can gradually repay customer losses over time with their trading profits. 
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: Pheonike on March 02, 2015, 05:54:41 pm

If they use bitBTC they can earn yield and repay a little faster. It would nice if they would become a bitUSD gateway.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: Frodo on March 02, 2015, 07:27:50 pm
I am talking this positively. The were having issues with the wallet security and that is probably why could not release the altcoins. Now bter wants to be back in operation. This is tremendous good news.

I agree. That is a good outcome if it works out in a timely manner. Especially good news for people with snapshots on bter. That would have been a total mess if they stopped operation.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: Ander on March 02, 2015, 07:43:48 pm

I agree. That is a good outcome if it works out in a timely manner. Especially good news for people with snapshots on bter. That would have been a total mess if they stopped operation.

Yes, this probably raises the chance that we will eventually get our snapshots.  And peoples vested BTS from DNS/PTS that was on there. 
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: joele on March 02, 2015, 11:36:05 pm
Yeah, this is good news actually.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: gamey on March 03, 2015, 12:15:14 am

Good news?  They likely processed this stuff manually.  The fact they are changing plans means that maybe they realized people were just happy to remove all their coins when given a chance.  (I've been waiting.)  They're going to rebuild it now?  Huh?  Well let people continue to remove their coins and then when you have a rewrite done open back up.

This is just an excuse to not pay people and is NEVER good news except that snapshots now have a >0% chance of being delivered.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: Rune on March 03, 2015, 01:41:10 am

Good news?  They likely processed this stuff manually.  The fact they are changing plans means that maybe they realized people were just happy to remove all their coins when given a chance.  (I've been waiting.)  They're going to rebuild it now?  Huh?  Well let people continue to remove their coins and then when you have a rewrite done open back up.

This is just an excuse to not pay people and is NEVER good news except that snapshots now have a >0% chance of being delivered.

Yep. This is a stalling tactic and not good.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on March 03, 2015, 02:14:25 am

Good news?  They likely processed this stuff manually.  The fact they are changing plans means that maybe they realized people were just happy to remove all their coins when given a chance.  (I've been waiting.)  They're going to rebuild it now?  Huh?  Well let people continue to remove their coins and then when you have a rewrite done open back up.

This is just an excuse to not pay people and is NEVER good news except that snapshots now have a >0% chance of being delivered.

Yeah it's a stale.. we've gone from cold wallet theft to complete rebuild of a system baring most but not all coin accounts...

(http://i57.tinypic.com/2pr8z9c.jpg)
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: jnporter099 on March 03, 2015, 06:09:30 am
Not good news...they may be trying to come up with a plan to go out legally without refunding any altcoins. They know they are doomed if they allow every user to withdraw all funds on Bter. I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for them to release the altcoins. By the way, how do you withdraw the snapshot stuff?

OK, I read about PLAY....now is there a wallet mechanism to withdraw my PLAY shares from Bter if or when this becomes possible? I have a functioning BTS wallet. Will that wallet allow for PLAY? Thanks.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: klosure on March 03, 2015, 07:45:37 am
We decided to work with our partners to rebuild the backend platform, completely resolve the wallet issue, reactivate bter operation.
Translation: BTER was sold, and of course next owner wants to keep the exchange running. That someone would pick such a low handing fruit was a no brainer: you'd really have to be short-sighted not to see the tremendous value in BTER :).
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: klosure on March 03, 2015, 07:49:29 am
Under its new management, BTER will certainly make a nice fit in SuperNET ecosystem.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: gamey on March 03, 2015, 09:38:41 am
We decided to work with our partners to rebuild the backend platform, completely resolve the wallet issue, reactivate bter operation.
Translation: BTER was sold, and of course next owner wants to keep the exchange running. That someone would pick such a low handing fruit was a no brainer: you'd really have to be short-sighted not to see the tremendous value in BTER :).

It is beyond amusing that you think that a DAC should take up the remains of a insecure centralized exchange.  I don't even begin to understand how you think that would work.  All those different coins and addresses, someone has to make sure it is straightened up going forward.  Who would fund and manage this?  I guess the bitshares devs would drop working on bitshares to finish cleaning up the bter mess??   Yea, so much value... value if you want to steal the coins.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: klosure on March 03, 2015, 03:52:45 pm
We decided to work with our partners to rebuild the backend platform, completely resolve the wallet issue, reactivate bter operation.
Translation: BTER was sold, and of course next owner wants to keep the exchange running. That someone would pick such a low handing fruit was a no brainer: you'd really have to be short-sighted not to see the tremendous value in BTER :).

It is beyond amusing that you think that a DAC should take up the remains of a insecure centralized exchange.  I don't even begin to understand how you think that would work.  All those different coins and addresses, someone has to make sure it is straightened up going forward.  Who would fund and manage this?  I guess the bitshares devs would drop working on bitshares to finish cleaning up the bter mess??   Yea, so much value... value if you want to steal the coins.
When  you buy a company you get the staff with it. If the company is profitable like BTER is it pays for its own staff. I already explained the details higher in the thread so I am not going to waste time beating a dead horse. Just wait and see BTER resume operation as a SuperNET gateway and you'll understand what I meant earlier.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: fav on March 03, 2015, 03:54:37 pm
We decided to work with our partners to rebuild the backend platform, completely resolve the wallet issue, reactivate bter operation.
Translation: BTER was sold, and of course next owner wants to keep the exchange running. That someone would pick such a low handing fruit was a no brainer: you'd really have to be short-sighted not to see the tremendous value in BTER :).

It is beyond amusing that you think that a DAC should take up the remains of a insecure centralized exchange.  I don't even begin to understand how you think that would work.  All those different coins and addresses, someone has to make sure it is straightened up going forward.  Who would fund and manage this?  I guess the bitshares devs would drop working on bitshares to finish cleaning up the bter mess??   Yea, so much value... value if you want to steal the coins.
When  you buy a company you get the staff with it. If the company is profitable like BTER is it pays for its own staff. I already explained the details higher in the thread so I am not going to waste time beating a dead horse. Just wait and see BTER resume operation as a SuperNET gateway and you'll understand what I meant earlier.

Bter as a SuperNET gateway wouldn't surprise me. James is incredible smart and knows how to establish his business.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: Catchfire on March 03, 2015, 05:33:54 pm
Just checked balance on Bter.  $00 was the balance. Last week I had $62.00.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: Frodo on March 03, 2015, 05:53:01 pm
Just checked balance on Bter.  $00 was the balance. Last week I had $62.00.

The balance was broken all the time. On the site where you can collect interest you should see the real balances.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: gamey on March 03, 2015, 07:31:17 pm
We decided to work with our partners to rebuild the backend platform, completely resolve the wallet issue, reactivate bter operation.
Translation: BTER was sold, and of course next owner wants to keep the exchange running. That someone would pick such a low handing fruit was a no brainer: you'd really have to be short-sighted not to see the tremendous value in BTER :).

It is beyond amusing that you think that a DAC should take up the remains of a insecure centralized exchange.  I don't even begin to understand how you think that would work.  All those different coins and addresses, someone has to make sure it is straightened up going forward.  Who would fund and manage this?  I guess the bitshares devs would drop working on bitshares to finish cleaning up the bter mess??   Yea, so much value... value if you want to steal the coins.
When  you buy a company you get the staff with it. If the company is profitable like BTER is it pays for its own staff. I already explained the details higher in the thread so I am not going to waste time beating a dead horse. Just wait and see BTER resume operation as a SuperNET gateway and you'll understand what I meant earlier.

I agree about dead horse, but if bter was so profitable it wouldn't need a buyer...  just saying.  You can't just trust the employee's of a foreign bank without any oversight.  It would just be asking for it. If a buyer got the existing employees, then they shouldn't shutdown withdrawals either.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: fuzzy on March 03, 2015, 07:37:44 pm
We decided to work with our partners to rebuild the backend platform, completely resolve the wallet issue, reactivate bter operation.
Translation: BTER was sold, and of course next owner wants to keep the exchange running. That someone would pick such a low handing fruit was a no brainer: you'd really have to be short-sighted not to see the tremendous value in BTER :).

It is beyond amusing that you think that a DAC should take up the remains of a insecure centralized exchange.  I don't even begin to understand how you think that would work.  All those different coins and addresses, someone has to make sure it is straightened up going forward.  Who would fund and manage this?  I guess the bitshares devs would drop working on bitshares to finish cleaning up the bter mess??   Yea, so much value... value if you want to steal the coins.
When  you buy a company you get the staff with it. If the company is profitable like BTER is it pays for its own staff. I already explained the details higher in the thread so I am not going to waste time beating a dead horse. Just wait and see BTER resume operation as a SuperNET gateway and you'll understand what I meant earlier.

I agree about dead horse, but if bter was so profitable it wouldn't need a buyer...  just saying.  You can't just trust the employee's of a foreign bank without any oversight.  It would just be asking for it. If a buyer got the existing employees, then they shouldn't shutdown withdrawals either.

@Klosure, I 100% agree.  And it would be the best move they ever made.  Then they would essentially own all the Centralized Exchanges (save BTC38, which admittedly is the biggest) and would introduce a great deal of competition. 
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: Ander on March 03, 2015, 11:02:06 pm
Bter account screen is finally showing a reasonable number for estimated value of my coins, that seems like a good sign.

At first it was showing absurdly high numbers.  Then it was showing 0.  Now its finally showing a reasonable number which is about equal to the value the BTS I have there was at when bter went down.  (Its not showing current value but I wouldnt expect it to, it is showing the value as of bter's final trading prices). 

Hopefully this means that they are actually managing to sort things out.


Bter becoming operational again is a best case scenario.  (Okay, actually them catching the hacker and getting the BTC back is best case, but I dont expect that). 

If they return to operation, not only can we withdraw our BTS or other coins, but we can also eventually get snapshot shares and vested shares.

If they only enabled withdraws, everyone would pull out all their coins and bter would fade, and we probably wouldnt get snapshots ever. 


Trying to go full operational again is a MUCH better plan on bter's part.  It also provides some hope to BTC holders, because they can partially pay them bakc over itme out of trading profits.

Finally, an operational bter, even one that loses the majority of its customers, still has some value.  It could later be sold to a new owner to pay back some of the BTC (or possibly this has already happened).    The value of bter is directly based on the size of their customer base that they retain, so it is in their interest to make sure as many people as possible get their coins and dont sustain big losses. 


Of course, that is the good case.  We arent in any way out of the woods until such time as the coins we have in bter are safely withdrawn into our personal wallets.   But I interpret this attempt to return to full operation to be good news.  This SHOULD have been their first statement after 'we've been hacked'.  They should have been working all along to try and repair their security hole and return to operation with as little damage to customers as possible. 

It sees they might have sold the site, and the new owners ("their partners") have much more sense and are now trying to maximize bter's value.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: vlight on March 03, 2015, 11:42:43 pm
It sees they might have sold the site, and the new owners ("their partners") have much more sense and are now trying to maximize bter's value.

This explains sudden disappearance of bytemaster and co.  ;D
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: Ander on March 03, 2015, 11:52:40 pm
It sees they might have sold the site, and the new owners ("their partners") have much more sense and are now trying to maximize bter's value.

This explains sudden disappearance of bytemaster and co.  ;D

No, its silly to think that bytemaster bought bter. 

Much more reasonable to think that bytemaster & co arent posting much due to the whole thing with the chinese community and the new PR blog post.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: fundomatic on March 04, 2015, 09:06:30 am
Bter.com tweet https://twitter.com/btercom/status/573043042329882624
Quote
Sorry for the long wait. We will solve the security issue completely and get all altcoins online and enable the withdrawals in a week.

Edit: added 'quotes'
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: cube on March 04, 2015, 09:16:51 am
Bter.com tweet https://twitter.com/btercom/status/573043042329882624

Sorry for the long wait. We will solve the security issue completely and get all altcoins online and enable the withdrawals in a week.

This is fantastic news! If they are doing this indeed, it would help to put to rest all kind of negative speculations.


..

This is just an excuse to not pay people and is NEVER good news except that snapshots now have a >0% chance of being delivered.

Yep. This is a stalling tactic and not good.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: konelectric on March 05, 2015, 02:05:40 am
Bter.com tweet https://twitter.com/btercom/status/573043042329882624
Quote
Sorry for the long wait. We will solve the security issue completely and get all altcoins online and enable the withdrawals in a week.

Edit: added 'quotes'

Altcoins yes. What about Bitcoins?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: kokojie on March 05, 2015, 04:57:19 pm
Bter.com tweet https://twitter.com/btercom/status/573043042329882624
Quote
Sorry for the long wait. We will solve the security issue completely and get all altcoins online and enable the withdrawals in a week.

Edit: added 'quotes'

Altcoins yes. What about Bitcoins?

They lost ALL their Bitcoin, hot+cold wallet. What do you expect? Bitcoin balances are totally screwed. Only your altcoin balance is safe (IF they keep their promise of allow altcoin withdrawals in a week).
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: muse-umum on March 05, 2015, 06:47:29 pm
Bter.com tweet https://twitter.com/btercom/status/573043042329882624
Quote
Sorry for the long wait. We will solve the security issue completely and get all altcoins online and enable the withdrawals in a week.

Edit: added 'quotes'

Altcoins yes. What about Bitcoins?

They lost ALL their Bitcoin, hot+cold wallet. What do you expect? Bitcoin balances are totally screwed. Only your altcoin balance is safe (IF they keep their promise of allow altcoin withdrawals in a week).

LOL. Dude, they definitely didn't have any 'cold' wallet. That should be 'cool' wallet.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. To enable all altcoins withdrawals in a week.
Post by: monsterer on March 05, 2015, 07:00:27 pm
How can they re-enable trading without reimbursing all customers who lost funds first?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. To enable all altcoins withdrawals in a week.
Post by: Ander on March 05, 2015, 07:23:28 pm
How can they re-enable trading without reimbursing all customers who lost funds first?

It seems that re-enabling trading is their only hope of creating some funds with which to pay back customer losses.

Its unclear whether they lost all their BTC or just a significant portion of it.  If they lost say, 50% of their BTC, then they could put the other 50% of BTC back into customer accounts after repairing the security flaws, and allow trading/withdrawals. 
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. To enable all altcoins withdrawals in a week.
Post by: Frodo on March 05, 2015, 07:34:14 pm
They have at least this hot wallet https://blockchain.info/address/17o5zDFGNvP5H2iWd7aWbhacwS1HKDE4i9 with 220 BTC. Not very significant though.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. To enable all altcoins withdrawals in a week.
Post by: monsterer on March 05, 2015, 08:03:42 pm
How can they re-enable trading without reimbursing all customers who lost funds first?

It seems that re-enabling trading is their only hope of creating some funds with which to pay back customer losses.

Its unclear whether they lost all their BTC or just a significant portion of it.  If they lost say, 50% of their BTC, then they could put the other 50% of BTC back into customer accounts after repairing the security flaws, and allow trading/withdrawals.

I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be acceptable for the vast majority of users. Isn't it quite likely disgruntled users will form a class action lawsuit against them, forcing them to sell off their assets to cover their customer's losses?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. To enable all altcoins withdrawals in a week.
Post by: Riverhead on March 05, 2015, 08:49:46 pm

What assets? It's probably like 3 guys and a few VPS accounts :) . Sadly I think opening back up for business is their, and our, best hope. They could issue bterBTC in accordance to everyone's balance at time of hack and those would slowly become real IOU's as revenue was generating.

Basically BTER = Greece and we are forced to opt-in to the gutted business in hopes of salvaging more of our losses. While I agree they aren't our losses but their loses and they owe us the money the reality of the situation is you can't get blood from a stone so we have to work with what we have.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. To enable all altcoins withdrawals in a week.
Post by: Ander on March 05, 2015, 08:53:29 pm
Their only asset is their customer base. 

The only way they can ever pay back the lost funds is if they resume trading and manage to keep a lot of their customer base somehow, and then continue to grow in the future.  If so, they can gradually repay at least some of the lost BTC over time.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. To enable all altcoins withdrawals in a week.
Post by: kokojie on March 05, 2015, 09:42:51 pm
How can they re-enable trading without reimbursing all customers who lost funds first?

It seems that re-enabling trading is their only hope of creating some funds with which to pay back customer losses.

Its unclear whether they lost all their BTC or just a significant portion of it.  If they lost say, 50% of their BTC, then they could put the other 50% of BTC back into customer accounts after repairing the security flaws, and allow trading/withdrawals.

I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be acceptable for the vast majority of users. Isn't it quite likely disgruntled users will form a class action lawsuit against them, forcing them to sell off their assets to cover their customer's losses?

Well, China doesn't have "class action lawsuit", you'll have to do it individually.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. CNY, USD, NXT assets withdrawal. To rebuild backend
Post by: konelectric on March 06, 2015, 02:16:17 am
Bter.com tweet https://twitter.com/btercom/status/573043042329882624
Quote
Sorry for the long wait. We will solve the security issue completely and get all altcoins online and enable the withdrawals in a week.

Edit: added 'quotes'

Altcoins yes. What about Bitcoins?

They lost ALL their Bitcoin, hot+cold wallet. What do you expect? Bitcoin balances are totally screwed. Only your altcoin balance is safe (IF they keep their promise of allow altcoin withdrawals in a week).

I guess you can't learn unless you lose first.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. To enable all altcoins withdrawals in a week.
Post by: jnporter099 on March 06, 2015, 04:00:46 pm
If Bter thinks they can retain the majority of their customer base, they are full-on delusional. Would anyone here who has lost more than a couple of Bitcoins ever trade on Bter again, having just their word that they "fixed" the security holes in their platform?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. To enable all altcoins withdrawals in a week.
Post by: btcxyzzz on March 06, 2015, 05:32:15 pm
Thing is, if they really somehow return all the money lost, they would get very good reputation and may continue business. In other cases, they may close the door.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. To enable all altcoins withdrawals in a week.
Post by: mf-tzo on March 06, 2015, 08:54:50 pm
Thing is, if they really somehow return all the money lost, they would get very good reputation and may continue business. In other cases, they may close the door.

Agreed. I don't think that Bitstamp lost many of each clients because of the way they handled things..Bter should better hurry up initiate some withdrawals soon and make a couple of statements.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. To enable all altcoins withdrawals in a week.
Post by: gamey on March 06, 2015, 09:58:57 pm
Rumor has it they shut down the whole operation but marketing guys were given a most kind BTS severance bonus.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. To enable all altcoins withdrawals in a week.
Post by: Riverhead on March 06, 2015, 10:38:14 pm
Rumor has it they shut down the whole operation but marketing guys were given a most kind BTS severance bonus.
Zing!

Sent from my Timex Sinclair

Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. To enable all altcoins withdrawals in a week.
Post by: fundomatic on March 09, 2015, 03:33:27 pm

https://twitter.com/btercom/status/574946304075264004
Quote
We are deploying our new trading system with the safest ever cold wallet solution. we will finish it in 24-48 hours.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. To enable all altcoins withdrawals in a week.
Post by: xeroc on March 09, 2015, 03:38:51 pm

https://twitter.com/btercom/status/574946304075264004
Quote
We are deploying our new trading system with the safest ever cold wallet solution. we will finish it in 24-48 hours.
in the meantime BTS 0.7.0 is due 3 days .. may be a coincidence :)  :P :P
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. To enable all altcoins withdrawals in a week.
Post by: svk on March 09, 2015, 03:44:24 pm

https://twitter.com/btercom/status/574946304075264004
Quote
We are deploying our new trading system with the safest ever cold wallet solution. we will finish it in 24-48 hours.
in the meantime BTS 0.7.0 is due 3 days .. may be a coincidence :)  :P :P

Don't you mean DVS 0.7.0 was due 4 days ago?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Deploying safest cold wallet
Post by: xeroc on March 09, 2015, 04:46:18 pm
Woops :)
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. To enable all altcoins withdrawals in a week.
Post by: Ander on March 09, 2015, 05:56:48 pm

https://twitter.com/btercom/status/574946304075264004
Quote
We are deploying our new trading system with the safest ever cold wallet solution. we will finish it in 24-48 hours.

That nice but...now the site is again just displaying a message and wont let us go to the bonus page.
No more nice high interest rate on BTS we were getting for the past three weeks, because it was locked in at the rate from the high volume trading day right before bter went down.  :P

Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. To enable all altcoins withdrawals in a week.
Post by: kokojie on March 10, 2015, 02:58:32 am

https://twitter.com/btercom/status/574946304075264004
Quote
We are deploying our new trading system with the safest ever cold wallet solution. we will finish it in 24-48 hours.

heh, so why didn't they implement this "safest ever cold wallet solution" before the hack. Only took them less than 2 weeks to develop this.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. Deploying safest cold wallet
Post by: fundomatic on March 10, 2015, 07:11:04 am
Here is a related btc38.com tweet:

https://twitter.com/btc38com/status/575105883362889732
Quote
http://Bter.com  will recover at 24~48 hours supported by JUA. http://OKcoin.com  public their cold storage strategy

Also from their tweet:
Quote
... JUA is a financial management site of Chinabtc
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. JUA hopes Bter make come back soon.
Post by: cube on March 10, 2015, 12:41:53 pm
JUA: "JUA聚啊可以为比特儿提供企业级的理财方案,希望比特儿早日重新站起来!"

"JUA can help Bter with enterprise level financial management. Hope Bter make a come back soon!"

Bter: 我们正在部署全新的交易系统,100%冷钱包资金托管,彻底解决资金安全问题。更快的交易引擎,更友好的界面,更多的功能,预计24-48小时完成,敬请期待,感谢您的支持!

We are implementing an all-new exchange system. 100% cold wallet trust held. Completely take care of fund safety. Faster exchange engine. More user-friendly interface. More features. Estimate 24-48 hours complete. We seek your patience. Thank you for your support!
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. JUA hopes Bter make come back soon.
Post by: LRENZ on March 10, 2015, 01:54:51 pm
They putting some of that 7000 btc they stole to good use, nice...
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. JUA hopes Bter make come back soon.
Post by: gamey on March 10, 2015, 06:48:07 pm

Sounds like they are possibly coming through.  I'm glad to hear people will likely be getting their money back.  Previously in the absence of details I found it unlikely as it appears to be a stalling tactic. 'cooling the mark'.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. JUA hopes Bter make come back soon.
Post by: fundomatic on March 10, 2015, 07:28:39 pm
Latest bter.com tweets

Quote
The trading will be enabled soon. Please do double check your balances and the price in your existing orders.

Quote
The previous BTC balance has been moved to BTC-B which will be used as the reference for 100% compensating our user's BTC loss.

The site is on https://bter.com/
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. JUA hopes Bter make come back soon.
Post by: Ander on March 10, 2015, 07:31:56 pm
Logged on and for a minute all my balances were zero, and then a bit later they were there again...

Withdrawal still disabled.  Interest available on BTS is zero, but not zero for other coins, haha I have a feeling we all burned through their bonus supply by taking the high BTS interest for the past two weeks, it was giving a high rate due to the large trading volume the day before the site went donw.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. JUA hopes Bter make come back soon.
Post by: fundomatic on March 10, 2015, 07:38:33 pm
Logged on and for a minute all my balances were zero, and then a bit later they were there again...

Yes, the BTC and BTC-B balance was zero and then the ballance appeared as BTC-B.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. JUA hopes Bter make come back soon.
Post by: Ander on March 10, 2015, 07:38:49 pm
They have an entry for 'Btc Pending' now.  Seems like this will represent the lost BTC that people had before, which they will try to repay in some way, at least partially?  Or something like that.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. JUA hopes Bter make come back soon.
Post by: Ander on March 10, 2015, 07:40:24 pm
The BTS bonus lists 0 interest, but I've seen the display be bugged before.

Can someone with a small balance test it and see if it gives any interest?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. JUA hopes Bter make come back soon.
Post by: Ander on March 10, 2015, 07:41:58 pm
Trying to get interest on the small amounts of NXT and Doge I have resulted in a 'no interest' popup even though I shouldve gotten a bit.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. JUA hopes Bter make come back soon.
Post by: Ander on March 10, 2015, 07:45:15 pm
I am really glad that they announced the site would go up in under 48 hours and then it actually did.  Its like they have someone competent helping them now!

I have a feeling the site has been sold or has a new investor who got in cheap and they are redoing it. 
Hopefully this is true, would be good for those who lost BTC, might get some back.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. JUA hopes Bter make come back soon.
Post by: infovortice2013 on March 10, 2015, 08:13:10 pm
wow all coins are there and snapshots, withdrawals deny. and interest must run 24h yes bts interest is "cero"

hope they put out % interest in bts because they reduce the 1% to withdrawal bts

if btchina give em 7k btc,, maybe and come back normal trading ...
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. JUA hopes Bter make come back soon.
Post by: Ander on March 10, 2015, 10:16:23 pm
"The previous BTC balance has been moved to BTC-B which will be used as the reference for 100% compensating our user's BTC loss."

They hope to eventually fully compensate everyone!  I hope they succeed.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. 720BTC bounty. JUA hopes Bter make come back soon.
Post by: konelectric on March 10, 2015, 11:42:41 pm
Tried to deposit a very small amount of bitcoin to see what would happen, but the deposit was disabled.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. To re-open market within 24hrs. Please check balance and orders.
Post by: cube on March 11, 2015, 12:56:36 am
Bter: "我们将在24小时内开放交易系统,请务必检查您的帐号资金和您的订单。市场已经发生变化,请务必检查您之前所下有效订单的价格,如与您当前期望不符,可立即取消订单。用户之前BTC余额已经转移到 BTC_B(BTC Pending)存储,我们将此作为归还用户之前BTC的依据,归还方案很快发布。"

We will be opening the exchange within 24 hours. Please check your balance and orders. There are changes in the market, please check your order prices. If the prices do not seems right, you may cancel order. Users' BTC balance has been moved to "BTC_B(BTC Pending)". We will use it as a basis for returning BTC. Detailing on the BTC returning will be announced soon.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. To re-open market within 24hrs. Please check balance and orders.
Post by: cube on March 11, 2015, 12:58:34 am
I like this part the most.

Bter: "患难见真情,感谢宝二爷在BTER最需要支持的时刻无畏非议来访BTER,也感谢所有通过各种方式一直支持我们的朋友,我们将重新站起来并走的更远"

"A friend in need is a friend indeed. Thanks to Bao who braved against all negative publicity to visit us and in a time when Bter needs support most. Thanks to friends of Bter who support us through various channels/methods.  We will stand again and we will travel far."

Bter's friend: "比特儿创始人韩林 创办比特儿两年来 经历过各种风风雨雨 7000币被盗事件属实 平台是目前还是世界最大的二代币平台 拥有海外注册用户9万人 国内注册用户13万人 其中大量用户希望其继续努力 不要倒下! "

"Bter's founder Han Lin developed Bter these two years when through a lot of obstacles and difficulties. The case of 7000 coins stolen is real. Bter is still the world Number Two virtual currency exchange. It has 90,000 foreign registered users and 130000 local users. Most users hope Bter can continue to work hard. Do not fall!"
(http://ww2.sinaimg.cn/bmiddle/c1d2fdc6jw1epxgupkz1fj20hs0dcjsu.jpg)
Title: Re: Bter hacked. To re-open market within 24hrs. Please check balance and orders.
Post by: Ander on March 11, 2015, 01:35:31 am
I think bter will survive based on one simple fact:  If bter survives and grows, users get their BTC back, and if it doesnt, they dont.  In the same way bitcoin miners early on were incentivized to bottstrap the bitcoin network, bter users with most coins are incentivized to help bter survive in order to get their BTC returned.

Obviously it is injured by this and wont be what it once was, like bitstamp, but it should survive.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. To re-open market within 24hrs. Please check balance and orders.
Post by: yellowecho on March 11, 2015, 01:41:52 am
My balance is still 0  ::)
Title: Re: Bter hacked. To re-open market within 24hrs. Please check balance and orders.
Post by: Ander on March 11, 2015, 01:45:01 am
My balance is still 0  ::)

Balance of what?  BTC?  Yes, everyones BTC balance is 0.

You should find something called BTC_B which has your old balance in BTC.  This shows how much they owe you.  If that number is correct then the system is working correctly.


You should see the correct amount of each altcoin in your account page, right now.
Note that it will say they are worth $0, because that part that estimates your worth in fiat terms isnt enabled again yet.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. To re-open market within 24hrs. Please check balance and orders.
Post by: joele on March 11, 2015, 01:56:10 am
My BTC and BTC_B is different

BTC   0.373500   
BTC_B   0.022140   
Title: Re: Bter hacked. To re-open market within 24hrs. Please check balance and orders.
Post by: donkeypong on March 11, 2015, 02:04:45 am
I think bter will survive based on one simple fact:  If bter survives and grows, users get their BTC back, and if it doesnt, they dont.  In the same way bitcoin miners early on were incentivized to bottstrap the bitcoin network, bter users with most coins are incentivized to help bter survive in order to get their BTC returned.

Obviously it is injured by this and wont be what it once was, like bitstamp, but it should survive.

I agree. I liked Bter and will use it again once it's fixed. I haven't found anything else as good. I only keep a couple of BTC worth of coin on there at any one time, so if it's hacked, then they can have it. Basically, it's just a place for me to run BTC through and use it to stock up on BTS.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. To re-open market within 24hrs. Please check balance and orders.
Post by: Ander on March 11, 2015, 03:07:53 am
My BTC and BTC_B is different

BTC   0.373500   
BTC_B   0.022140

How the heck do you have BTC, it should be 0?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. To re-open market within 24hrs. Please check balance and orders.
Post by: mint chocolate chip on March 11, 2015, 03:20:34 am
(http://i.imgur.com/gwl7K3U.jpg)
Title: Re: Bter hacked. To re-open market within 24hrs. Please check balance and orders.
Post by: hpenvy2 on March 11, 2015, 03:29:50 am
Anyone know which snapshot this one belongs to on BTER?

Dec.14,2014BTS_S2   

Title: Re: Bter hacked. To re-open market within 24hrs. Please check balance and orders.
Post by: Frodo on March 11, 2015, 10:39:48 am
Anyone know which snapshot this one belongs to on BTER?

Dec.14,2014BTS_S2

Sparkle.
Maybe something else as well but I can't remember.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. To re-open market within 24hrs. Please check balance and orders.
Post by: vladvlad on March 11, 2015, 11:36:51 am
Balances showed up after a little wait, that is a relief.

Is it possible to withdraw altcoins?

thx
Title: Re: Bter hacked. To re-open market within 24hrs. Please check balance and orders.
Post by: roselee on March 11, 2015, 11:40:35 am
yes thats sparkle
Title: Re: Bter hacked. To re-open market within 24hrs. Please check balance and orders.
Post by: roselee on March 11, 2015, 11:41:29 am
would you help
where do i find btc.b ?on bter
Title: Re: Bter hacked. To re-open market within 24hrs. Please check balance and orders.
Post by: cass on March 11, 2015, 12:53:56 pm
under your BTC balance on https://bter.com/myaccount
(http://i.imgur.com/6nE7Wrv.png)
Title: Re: Bter hacked. To re-open market within 24hrs. Please check balance and orders.
Post by: cass on March 11, 2015, 12:56:26 pm
Anyone know which snapshot this one belongs to on BTER?

Dec.14,2014BTS_S2

Dec.14.14 PTS_S8
Title: Re: Bter hacked. To re-open market within 24hrs. Please check balance and orders.
Post by: roselee on March 11, 2015, 01:11:34 pm
Anyone know which snapshot this one belongs to on BTER?

Dec.14,2014BTS_S2

Dec.14.14 PTS_S8
as much as i know it that sparkle
Title: Re: Bter hacked. To re-open market within 24hrs. Please check balance and orders.
Post by: roselee on March 11, 2015, 01:12:18 pm
does anyone know how to get the snapshots to us if they alowe withdraw ?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. To re-open market within 24hrs. Please check balance and orders.
Post by: joele on March 11, 2015, 01:22:03 pm
My BTC and BTC_B is different

BTC   0.373500   
BTC_B   0.022140

How the heck do you have BTC, it should be 0?
I cancelled all my orders and the BTC went to BTC balance.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. To re-open market within 24hrs. Please check balance and orders.
Post by: hpenvy2 on March 11, 2015, 01:54:31 pm
Anyone know which snapshot this one belongs to on BTER?

Dec.14,2014BTS_S2

Dec.14.14 PTS_S8

This was a copy/paste. My balance is showing under S2, not S8.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. To re-open market within 24hrs. Please check balance and orders.
Post by: hpenvy2 on March 11, 2015, 01:55:47 pm
Anyone know which snapshot this one belongs to on BTER?

Dec.14,2014BTS_S2

Dec.14.14 PTS_S8
as much as i know it that sparkle

Thank you.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. To re-open market within 24hrs. Please check balance and orders.
Post by: zerosum on March 11, 2015, 04:14:54 pm
Deposit and markets are now active.
About 6.97% of the BTC it seems will be available for withdrawal (at least for me that looks to be the %).
Title: Re: Bter hacked. Darkcoin enbled. Market to open with NO trading fees for one month!
Post by: cube on March 11, 2015, 04:23:26 pm
Bter: "No trading FEE in all BTER's markets for one month to thank all of you for your support !"
Title: Re: Bter hacked. Darkcoin enbled. Market to open with NO trading fees for one month!
Post by: btcxyzzz on March 11, 2015, 04:54:35 pm
Fine, markets are working but still no one is able to withdraw BTS?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. Darkcoin enbled. Market to open with NO trading fees for one month!
Post by: Ander on March 11, 2015, 04:59:01 pm
Fine, markets are working but still no one is able to withdraw BTS?

Markets arent enabled yet except darkcoin to cny I think. 
Title: Re: Bter hacked. Darkcoin enbled. One-month free trade. Compensation plan.
Post by: cube on March 11, 2015, 05:12:55 pm
Bter announces compensation plan:

https://bter.com/article/4760

and "500 BTC  has been distributed to support the existing orders and another 500 BTC has been distributed to all users' balances based BTC_B."
Title: Re: Bter hacked. Darkcoin enbled. One-month free trade. Compensation plan.
Post by: Ander on March 11, 2015, 05:21:01 pm
BTS<->BTC trades are going through!  Withdrawals not yet enabled however.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. Darkcoin enbled. One-month free trade. Compensation plan.
Post by: Ander on March 11, 2015, 05:22:04 pm
So far nothing but dumping. I guess that should be expected given that there is almost no BTC in the system.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. Darkcoin enbled. One-month free trade. Compensation plan.
Post by: Pheonike on March 11, 2015, 05:22:49 pm
They say are still looking for other sources of revenue to help with the payback. I think this is opportunity to convince to become a usd/cny gateway for us. They could use the fees/interest to help with the payback.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. To re-open market within 24hrs. Please check balance and orders.
Post by: donkeypong on March 11, 2015, 05:29:21 pm

Sparkle.


Sparkle. Is that still a thing?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. Darkcoin enbled. One-month free trade. Compensation plan.
Post by: Ander on March 11, 2015, 05:31:09 pm
bter deposits are enabled, I sent 10 cents of BTC and Doge.  We'll see if it works.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. Darkcoin enbled. One-month free trade. Compensation plan.
Post by: Ander on March 11, 2015, 06:02:38 pm
Deposits work, you can now send money into the black hole. :P

Title: Re: Bter hacked. To re-open market within 24hrs. Please check balance and orders.
Post by: Frodo on March 11, 2015, 10:11:33 pm

Sparkle.


Sparkle. Is that still a thing?

The plan was to wait for 1.0 as code base. As it takes longer as expected to get there I have no idea if there is still interest though. I certainly don't have high expectations if it should ever launch.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. To re-open market within 24hrs. Please check balance and orders.
Post by: Ander on March 11, 2015, 10:35:24 pm

Sparkle.


Sparkle. Is that still a thing?

The plan was to wait for 1.0 as code base. As it takes longer as expected to get there I have no idea if there is still interest though. I certainly don't have high expectations if it should ever launch.

So sparkle might release sometime in 2017 then? :P
Title: Re: Bter hacked. Darkcoin enbled. One-month free trade. Compensation plan.
Post by: konelectric on March 11, 2015, 10:52:49 pm
Bter has moved some of my BTC from BTC_B to BTC. and my account has a positive value for BTC. But I still can't collect interest or withdraw it.

"Total funds estimation: 25.76 USD or 0.08654 BTC "
Title: Re: Bter hacked. Darkcoin enbled. One-month free trade. Compensation plan.
Post by: Ander on March 11, 2015, 10:57:57 pm
Bter has moved some of my BTC from BTC_B to BTC. and my account has a positive value for BTC. But I still can't collect interest or withdraw it.

"Total funds estimation: 25.76 USD or 0.08654 BTC "

Withdrawals still arent enabled (for anything).  Right now you could trade it for a few alts, including BTS.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. Darkcoin enbled. One-month free trade. Compensation plan.
Post by: LRENZ on March 11, 2015, 11:10:03 pm
I think I was the first one on earlier when it relaunched. I went to BTS withdrawal and it was enabled. Tried to withdraw 1000 bts test amount, it said it was successful but I never received it. Then a few minutes later it was disabled and still is now.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. Darkcoin enbled. One-month free trade. Compensation plan.
Post by: konelectric on March 11, 2015, 11:12:58 pm
Bter has moved some of my BTC from BTC_B to BTC. and my account has a positive value for BTC. But I still can't collect interest or withdraw it.

"Total funds estimation: 25.76 USD or 0.08654 BTC "

Withdrawals still arent enabled (for anything).  Right now you could trade it for a few alts, including BTS.

I tried buying BTS with my BTC and it worked. It they enable BTS withdraws first, then I'll convert all my BTC to BTS and withdraw it. BTC price is up and BTS is down. It might work out.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. Darkcoin enbled. One-month free trade. Compensation plan.
Post by: Ander on March 12, 2015, 01:13:26 am
DRK withdrawal enabled!  We are getting close.


Also, someone bought up a lot of BTS.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. Darkcoin enbled. One-month free trade. Compensation plan.
Post by: Pairmike on March 12, 2015, 02:17:59 am
I was able to get my BTS out of Bter by selling all of it for LTC.  Then withdrawing LTC to another exchange.  I lost a few bucks for the conversion, but saved the lion share.  Thank the Lord Jesus.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. Darkcoin enbled. One-month free trade. Compensation plan.
Post by: Ander on March 12, 2015, 02:34:19 am
I was able to get my BTS out of Bter by selling all of it for LTC.  Then withdrawing LTC to another exchange.  I lost a few bucks for the conversion, but saved the lion share.  Thank the Lord Jesus.

LTC withdrawal is enabled already?

They should really enable everything at the same time.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. Darkcoin enbled. One-month free trade. Compensation plan.
Post by: Ander on March 12, 2015, 02:37:03 am
Its funny, I sold a bit of LTC and bought BTS a couple hours ago.  My coins are still trapped but I gained value. :P
Title: Re: Bter hacked. Darkcoin enbled. One-month free trade. Compensation plan.
Post by: Pairmike on March 12, 2015, 03:22:59 am
I was able to get my BTS out of Bter by selling all of it for LTC.  Then withdrawing LTC to another exchange.  I lost a few bucks for the conversion, but saved the lion share.  Thank the Lord Jesus.

LTC withdrawal is enabled already?

They should really enable everything at the same time.
Yes, LTC withdrawal is enabled.  I found it by poking around. 
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. 1000BTC returned.
Post by: cube on March 12, 2015, 04:20:34 am
Bter: "首批1000BTC已经下发到用户帐号,其中500BTC用于支持已有订单,500BTC按照用户BTC_B比例已经分发给受影响的用户。以后我们将持续为受影响用户分发BTC,尽最大努力和最快速度完成100%用户损失补偿。完成补偿后受影响用户还将额外分享BTER半年手续费收入。"

First 1000BTC given to users, of which 500BTC is used to support placed orders, 500BTC to match against BTC_B records of affected users. We will continue to work very hard to pay BTC users in the earliest possible time and with 100% compensation. Affected users will get a bonus of half year BTER fee after being made whole.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. 1000BTC returned.
Post by: fuzzy on March 12, 2015, 06:03:14 am
Bter: "首批1000BTC已经下发到用户帐号,其中500BTC用于支持已有订单,500BTC按照用户BTC_B比例已经分发给受影响的用户。以后我们将持续为受影响用户分发BTC,尽最大努力和最快速度完成100%用户损失补偿。完成补偿后受影响用户还将额外分享BTER半年手续费收入。"

First 1000BTC given to users, of which 500BTC is used to support placed orders, 500BTC to match against BTC_B records of affected users. We will continue to work very hard to pay BTC users in the earliest possible time and with 100% compensation. Affected users will get a bonus of half year BTER fee after being made whole.

Well done.  They always come back with the benefits users are going to get.  Smart PR twist :)
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. 1000BTC returned.
Post by: hpenvy2 on March 12, 2015, 11:02:06 am
Bter: "首批1000BTC已经下发到用户帐号,其中500BTC用于支持已有订单,500BTC按照用户BTC_B比例已经分发给受影响的用户。以后我们将持续为受影响用户分发BTC,尽最大努力和最快速度完成100%用户损失补偿。完成补偿后受影响用户还将额外分享BTER半年手续费收入。"

First 1000BTC given to users, of which 500BTC is used to support placed orders, 500BTC to match against BTC_B records of affected users. We will continue to work very hard to pay BTC users in the earliest possible time and with 100% compensation. Affected users will get a bonus of half year BTER fee after being made whole.

Well done.  They always come back with the benefits users are going to get.  Smart PR twist :)

 +5%
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. 1000BTC returned.
Post by: cube on March 12, 2015, 11:20:41 am
Bter: "Most markets are re-enabled now and we are making withdrawals work for more and more coins."

JUA officially announces its support for Bter's rebuild.  BTS could have been part of this.  Oh well.

"
关于JUA支持bter重建的公告

众所周知,bter经历了重大安全事故,面对众多bter的用户资产损失,我们经过了与bter的沟通和审查后,综合评估认定bter具备较大的市场价值,所以jua决定支持bter重建,并进行一系列技术等资源支持。
      1、bter目前状况如下:
      a、总注册用户量228312,英文用户90209位 占比39.4%,中文用户138103位占比60.6%
      b、中国最早的虚拟币多币种交易平台,支持80多种虚拟货币。从2013年至今一直是中国流量最大的虚拟币服务平台
      c、Alexa全球排名17504,中国排名9773
      d、完成交易12926316笔,完成用户充值3014575次(209427次人民币充值,2805148次虚拟币充值),完成用户提现679678次。
      2、jua第一期援助bter 1000btc长期无息贷款,用于bter当前的恢复工作,不排除后期援助,bter质押55%股份给jua,用于安全保障;
      3、Jua托管bter的冷钱包管理服务,Jua立即着手建立企业级虚拟币存储和充值体现体系,以达到完全托管bter的虚拟币在线业务;
      4、后续chbtc与bter之间建立更多的合作联系,帮助bter拓展更多业务,一起把业务做大做强。
      5、Jua团队协助bter完成当前安全检测与服务部署相关工作,让本次事件成为bter最后一次安全事件!
      希望bter的重建真正减少用户损失,对所有人都有益处,也希望藉此JUA能与bter建立良好的合作关系,快速走向世界;另外,jua重资收购了国际域名 bitbank.com,请大家一起期待更美好的未来银行!"
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. 1000BTC returned.
Post by: LRENZ on March 12, 2015, 12:39:57 pm
BTS & BTC withdrawals enabled!!

Ahhhhhhhh, finally... :)
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. BTS,BTC enabled!
Post by: sschechter on March 12, 2015, 02:22:21 pm
BTS & BTC withdrawals enabled!!

Ahhhhhhhh, finally... :)

How long did it take to process?  I did a small BTS test withdrawal, but could only wait for 10-15 minutes before leaving for work.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. BTS,BTC enabled!
Post by: Ander on March 12, 2015, 03:01:25 pm
Has anyone got their withdrawal yet?  Mine still says processing.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. BTS,BTC enabled!
Post by: btcxyzzz on March 12, 2015, 03:20:54 pm
Mine still says processing.

Is there any particular part of site where yoiu can read "processing". I can't find one...
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. BTS,BTC enabled!
Post by: Ander on March 12, 2015, 03:44:48 pm
Mine still says processing.

Is there any particular part of site where yoiu can read "processing". I can't find one...

On the withdrawal page for that coin.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. BTS,BTC enabled!
Post by: btcxyzzz on March 12, 2015, 03:53:00 pm
On the withdrawal page for that coin.

ah thanks...
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. BTS,BTC enabled!
Post by: vladvlad on March 12, 2015, 07:23:10 pm
trying to withdraw btc from bter, keeps saying 'Invalid fund password'

What do they mean with fund password? This is aparently not my account pasword?

thx
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. BTS,BTC enabled!
Post by: onceuponatime on March 12, 2015, 07:25:39 pm
trying to withdraw btc from bter, keeps saying 'Invalid fund password'

What do they mean with fund password? This is aparently not my account pasword?

thx

BTER has two passwords:  one for logging in, and a second one called "fund password" when you want to withdraw.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. BTS,BTC enabled!
Post by: vladvlad on March 12, 2015, 07:34:23 pm
thanks you, I didn't know :)
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. BTS,BTC enabled!
Post by: Helikopterben on March 12, 2015, 08:01:56 pm
Has anyone got their withdrawal yet?  Mine still says processing.

Same here
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. BTS,BTC enabled!
Post by: ubits on March 12, 2015, 08:18:07 pm
All balances of alt coins and BTC restored on Bter. Although I had almost non-existent balances of alt coins.

 I had several BTC in orders at time of hack. And all BTC balances and orders have been reinstated too.  +5% +5%
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. BTS,BTC enabled!
Post by: merivercap on March 12, 2015, 08:39:13 pm
Great to hear!
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. BTS,BTC enabled!
Post by: jnporter099 on March 12, 2015, 09:37:01 pm
My test withdrawal of 500 BTS is hanging at "processing" for 6-7 hours now...anybody had any withdrawals of BTS go through?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. BTS,BTC enabled!
Post by: Pheonike on March 12, 2015, 10:04:30 pm


Still waiting on my test 100, has been about 4hrs.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. BTS,BTC enabled!
Post by: LRENZ on March 12, 2015, 10:08:35 pm
I finally recieved the test amount I mentioned here:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=14291.msg192670#msg192670

But that was different circumstances if you read.

It took over 12 hours I think.

I haven't tried again since it was officially enabled. But I'm sure they will fix it soon.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. BTS,BTC enabled!
Post by: Ander on March 12, 2015, 10:12:04 pm
My test withdrawal of 500 BTS is hanging at "processing" for 6-7 hours now...anybody had any withdrawals of BTS go through?

No I've been waiting for 6 hours.  I don't think they have actually enabled them yet.  That is, you can put in a withdraw order but they arent fulfilling them yet.

Hopefully tomorrow.  They have been making steady progress on things becoming tradable again and withdrawals working, it shouldnt be too much longer.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. BTS,BTC enabled!
Post by: kokojie on March 12, 2015, 10:37:14 pm
My test withdrawal of 500 BTS is hanging at "processing" for 6-7 hours now...anybody had any withdrawals of BTS go through?

6 hour ago is nearly midnight in China, they probably sleeping now I guess
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. BTS,BTC enabled!
Post by: konelectric on March 12, 2015, 10:50:58 pm
Just withdrawal some BTC. It processed in 15 minutes.   
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. BTS,BTC enabled!
Post by: joele on March 13, 2015, 08:36:25 am
I should have read the forum before I withdraw.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. BTS,BTC enabled!
Post by: rgnrk87 on March 13, 2015, 08:37:40 am
My BTS withdraw has been processing for more than 10 hours. Now the withdraw page says BTS withdraw is disabled. :(
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. PTS enabled!
Post by: cube on March 13, 2015, 11:06:23 am
PTS withdrawal enabled.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. PTS enabled!
Post by: Grusmir on March 13, 2015, 11:20:57 am
I Sent this to the Bter support:

"Mar 13, 17:29

When am I going to be able to withdraw my BitShares? I'm already waiting since weeks.
Yesterday BTS withdrawals were enabled and I submitted it but now today I see its disabled again and the funds remain in my Bter account.
When do you expect to have BTS withdrawals working 100%?"

They Replied:

"Mar 13, 17:46

Dear Sir,
BTS withdrawal is suspended . The new BTS wallet is not stable and we have contacted the BTS dev team .

We will process the bts withdrawal later when the wallet is proven to be stable enough.

Best Regards
Bter.com"

What is the issue with the BitShares wallet on Bter? Can someone from BitShares have a look at this?

I have my coins stuck there since weeks, please help.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. PTS enabled!
Post by: joele on March 13, 2015, 11:39:19 am
I Sent this to the Bter support:

"Mar 13, 17:29

When am I going to be able to withdraw my BitShares? I'm already waiting since weeks.
Yesterday BTS withdrawals were enabled and I submitted it but now today I see its disabled again and the funds remain in my Bter account.
When do you expect to have BTS withdrawals working 100%?"

They Replied:

"Mar 13, 17:46

Dear Sir,
BTS withdrawal is suspended . The new BTS wallet is not stable and we have contacted the BTS dev team .

We will process the bts withdrawal later when the wallet is proven to be stable enough.

Best Regards
Bter.com"

What is the issue with the BitShares wallet on Bter? Can someone from BitShares have a look at this?

I have my coins stuck there since weeks, please help.
+5%
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. PTS enabled!
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on March 13, 2015, 11:46:53 am
I Sent this to the Bter support:

"Mar 13, 17:29

When am I going to be able to withdraw my BitShares? I'm already waiting since weeks.
Yesterday BTS withdrawals were enabled and I submitted it but now today I see its disabled again and the funds remain in my Bter account.
When do you expect to have BTS withdrawals working 100%?"

They Replied:

"Mar 13, 17:46

Dear Sir,
BTS withdrawal is suspended . The new BTS wallet is not stable and we have contacted the BTS dev team .

We will process the bts withdrawal later when the wallet is proven to be stable enough.

Best Regards
Bter.com"

What is the issue with the BitShares wallet on Bter? Can someone from BitShares have a look at this?

I have my coins stuck there since weeks, please help.
+5%

Given everything we have seen of BTER of late.. 1000 BTS says they are running something like v0.5 wallet.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. PTS enabled!
Post by: cube on March 13, 2015, 12:59:35 pm

Given everything we have seen of BTER of late.. 1000 BTS says they are running something like v0.5 wallet.

I doubt it. BitShares 0.6.0 was released on 7 Feb while Bter was hacked around 15 Feb.

Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. PTS enabled!
Post by: Grusmir on March 13, 2015, 01:05:16 pm

Given everything we have seen of BTER of late.. 1000 BTS says they are running something like v0.5 wallet.

I doubt it. BitShares 0.6.0 was released on 7 Feb while Bter was hacked around 15 Feb.

Are you part of the dev team? Can someone from the dev team please contact them?

I'm getting really frustrated that my coins are being held by a centralized entity and I can't do anything about it.

Please help!
Title: Re: Bter hacked. Darkcoin enbled. One-month free trade. Compensation plan.
Post by: roselee on March 13, 2015, 02:32:34 pm
I think I was the first one on earlier when it relaunched. I went to BTS withdrawal and it was enabled. Tried to withdraw 1000 bts test amount, it said it was successful but I never received it. Then a few minutes later it was disabled and still is now.

same here
but they told me its a bts wallet issue
and they are in contact with bts dev
i wonder if thats true
my wallet has no issue
sure it takes a while till sync is finished but it works

Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. PTS enabled!
Post by: btcxyzzz on March 13, 2015, 02:42:41 pm
It's kind of weird issue was non existant before the hack, just afterwards. ;)
did anyone so far was able to withdraw any coin from bter?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. PTS enabled!
Post by: LRENZ on March 13, 2015, 03:47:39 pm
Sounds like I'm the only one that got any BTS out. It took ages but it did actually work.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. PTS enabled!
Post by: jz831 on March 13, 2015, 03:58:27 pm
Both of my attempts to have my BTS withdrawn have failed, and now the withdraw/BTS page gives the message "BTS withdrawal is disabled" - now my balance is at zero, so i'm stuck in limbo. Hoping that this isn't the ol' "passing of the buck".
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. PTS enabled!
Post by: cube on March 13, 2015, 04:12:11 pm

Given everything we have seen of BTER of late.. 1000 BTS says they are running something like v0.5 wallet.

I doubt it. BitShares 0.6.0 was released on 7 Feb while Bter was hacked around 15 Feb.

Are you part of the dev team? Can someone from the dev team please contact them?

I'm getting really frustrated that my coins are being held by a centralized entity and I can't do anything about it.

Please help!

I am not a bts dev but I do have contact with Lin, the CEO of Bter from my dev work with PTS DPOS.  I know Lin to be a very responsive and helpful person.  Since Bter support mentions that they are in contact with the BTS dev team, let's give them some time to resolve the problem.

Edit: For those who are not aware of PTS DPOS, it is an upgrade of the old PTS network and it uses the BitShares toolkit.  See more on http://www.ptscrypto.com
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. PTS enabled!
Post by: Rafikichi on March 14, 2015, 04:43:31 am
Just recieved my BTER withdrawal!
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. PTS enabled!
Post by: cube on March 14, 2015, 02:03:08 pm
For those who have tried the deposit and withdrawal, please share your experience here.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. PTS enabled!
Post by: sudo on March 14, 2015, 04:11:26 pm
can't withdraw  my bitUSD from BTER :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. PTS enabled. Share you experience.
Post by: infovortice2013 on March 14, 2015, 06:13:34 pm
bts withdrawal disabled for me
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. PTS enabled. Share you experience.
Post by: Ander on March 14, 2015, 07:40:14 pm
There are only a few coins that you actually can withdraw right now.  They need to fix their wallets.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. PTS enabled. Share you experience.
Post by: Tuck Fheman on March 14, 2015, 10:24:14 pm
wallet still shows zero's. have already kissed what little we had there (for 20 minutes) goodbye.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. PTS enabled. Share you experience.
Post by: infovortice2013 on March 15, 2015, 04:12:47 pm
i try to withdrawal 130k of pts yerterday and are lost,.,, not in balance.. not in my wallet

same to 100 BTS

i send a mail to support@mail.bter.com
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. PTS enabled. Share you experience.
Post by: kokojie on March 15, 2015, 04:23:56 pm
i try to withdrawal 130k of pts yerterday and are lost,.,, not in balance.. not in my wallet

same to 100 BTS

i send a mail to support@mail.bter.com

Ye sometime bter system does that, but eventually the balance shows up. I didn't even bother to ask support, since if they gonna run away with my money, there's nothing I could do anyway. If they aren't going to run away with my money, then it'll be sorted eventually.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. PTS enabled. Share you experience.
Post by: Ander on March 15, 2015, 04:56:14 pm
Ye sometime bter system does that, but eventually the balance shows up. I didn't even bother to ask support, since if they gonna run away with my money, there's nothing I could do anyway. If they aren't going to run away with my money, then it'll be sorted eventually.

Yes, this.

If their goal was to run away with the money, they never wouldve come back on and allowed withdraw of some coins. 
They are trying, they just have too many things to do in a short time.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. Compensation plan. PTS enabled!
Post by: sudo on March 16, 2015, 03:17:34 am
Sounds like I'm the only one that got any BTS out. It took ages but it did actually work.

what is the time you withdrawal?
Title: Re: Bter hacked. One-month free trade. PTS enabled. Share you experience.
Post by: hightower on March 16, 2015, 08:49:12 am
i try to withdrawal 130k of pts yerterday and are lost,.,, not in balance.. not in my wallet

same to 100 BTS

i send a mail to support@mail.bter.com

I received all my PTS withdrawn yesterday.  I am relieved!

No luck with BTS withdrawal.  It is disabled.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. PTS withdrawal successful. Share you experience.
Post by: Riverhead on March 16, 2015, 11:57:27 am

I submitted a request for bitUSD and bitGOLD some time ago (when the balances first showed up again). I have now received them. BTS is still being blocked but this gives me a lot of confidence.


Title: Re: Bter hacked. PTS withdrawal successful. Share you experience.
Post by: joele on March 16, 2015, 01:47:53 pm

I submitted a request for bitUSD and bitGOLD some time ago (when the balances first showed up again). I have now received them. BTS is still being blocked but this gives me a lot of confidence.
Same here
Title: Re: Bter hacked. PTS, bitassets withdrawal successful. Share you experience.
Post by: Ander on March 16, 2015, 05:06:14 pm
I got my BTS!  Go withdraw now.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. PTS, bitassets withdrawal successful. Share you experience.
Post by: xeroc on March 16, 2015, 05:11:29 pm
+5% .. i re-added bter as a source for my price feeds .. so dont forget to continue trading too!
Title: Re: Bter hacked. PTS, bitassets withdrawal successful. Share you experience.
Post by: btcxyzzz on March 16, 2015, 06:53:37 pm
Received my portion of BTS. To be honest, I was thinking chances are slim to none for that, but Bter showed they seem to be honest (in case BTC theft wasn't in-house operation).

Will hold my trading with Bter for a while, but they now have quite good reputation even if my funds were blocked for 1 month.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. PTS, bitassets withdrawal successful. Share you experience.
Post by: infovortice2013 on March 16, 2015, 07:17:30 pm
yeah BTS and PTS withdrawals running now, i take 80% of my balance out for bad comunication scary me, but keep trading in Bter with 20% for now i trust they wanna continue working honestly.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. PTS, bitassets withdrawal successful. Share you experience.
Post by: matt608 on March 16, 2015, 07:19:15 pm
Some BitUSD withdrawn successfully.  :)
Title: Re: Bter hacked. PTS, bitassets withdrawal successful. Share you experience.
Post by: Ander on March 16, 2015, 07:21:38 pm
I really want bter to survive.  That way we get our snapshot shares, and those who lost BTC there eventually get their BTC back.  I'm just not going to keep more than 5% of my shares there anymore. ;)
Title: Re: Bter hacked. PTS, bitassets withdrawal successful. Share you experience.
Post by: doyoubit on March 16, 2015, 11:35:21 pm
Bter recovery is one of the good news stories for the Crypto space in 2015, but Coindesk does not think its worthy to write an article?  Guess hacks, BTC auctions and VC financing make better news.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. PTS, bitassets withdrawal successful. Share you experience.
Post by: cube on March 18, 2015, 06:06:59 am
Bter: "BTS,XTC,XM wallets fixed and synced."
Title: Re: Bter hacked. PTS, bitassets withdrawal successful. Share you experience.
Post by: svk on March 18, 2015, 08:55:22 am
I successfully withdrew my BTS as well as some BTC that I'm not sure why was available. Still have ~1 BTC_B in limbo though.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. PTS, bitassets withdrawal successful. Share you experience.
Post by: cass on March 22, 2015, 02:10:42 pm
I've deposit a small BTS amount yesterday... until now no balance on bter.com and no feedback from them ...  ::)
Title: Re: Bter hacked. PTS, bitassets withdrawal successful. Share you experience.
Post by: cass on March 22, 2015, 10:32:19 pm
https://bter.com/
503 Service Unavailable
No server is available to handle this request.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. PTS, bitassets withdrawal successful. Share you experience.
Post by: Ander on March 22, 2015, 10:34:03 pm
https://bter.com/
503 Service Unavailable
No server is available to handle this request.

Its still up for me.
Title: Re: Bter hacked. PTS, bitassets withdrawal successful. Share you experience.
Post by: infovortice2013 on March 22, 2015, 10:34:19 pm
i can access normally
Title: Re: Bter hacked. PTS, bitassets withdrawal successful. Share you experience.
Post by: cass on March 22, 2015, 10:40:16 pm
ok for up now again also! weird…guess local problem
Title: Re: Bter hacked. PTS, bitassets withdrawal successful. Share you experience.
Post by: konelectric on April 14, 2017, 10:28:16 am
Returning stolen Bitcoins. About time.  https://bter.com/article/14192