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Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: oco101 on February 25, 2015, 02:09:27 am

Title: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: oco101 on February 25, 2015, 02:09:27 am
Really like it. This will save a lot of craziness  :)  +1

http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/02/24/BitShares-now-has-professional-PR-initiative/

Note : After further communication with multiple parties , this blog post was a result of misunderstanding .  It was supposed to send to the developers and marketeers to discuss further and provide inputs base on their opinions but instead made its way on the blog  due to misunderstanding and with some new information left out  . 
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: alt on February 25, 2015, 02:15:23 am
 +5%
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: arhag on February 25, 2015, 02:44:59 am
-5%

I am disappointed that it has come to this.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: roadscape on February 25, 2015, 02:52:09 am
I am disappointed that it has come to this.

The Core Developers (including any member thereof individually) should make no comment on any subject on the forum unless approved by and posted through the Spokesman.

-5%
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: carpet ride on February 25, 2015, 02:58:24 am
Let's test it out and see how it does  :o
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: cass on February 25, 2015, 03:05:54 am
+ - 5%

i'm divided - i'm just between east and west ^^
On the other side it is completely against all Dan fights for :)
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: bobmaloney on February 25, 2015, 03:16:48 am
TL;DR (real world version)

If you are a Core Developer and wish to state an opinion about anything, use a pseudonym.




I see no problem with this, as long as opinions still get posted.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: Stan on February 25, 2015, 03:18:36 am
BitShares is growing up.

Quote
rite of passage
Word Origin
noun
1.
Anthropology. a ceremony performed to facilitate or mark a person's change of status upon any of several highly important occasions, as at the onset of puberty or upon entry into marriage or into a clan.
2.
any important act or event that serves to mark a passage from one stage of life to another.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: lil_jay890 on February 25, 2015, 03:19:16 am
I believe this is going to be good for the market cap as everything will be much more professional and similar to the way real businesses work, but something doesn't feel right with Dan submitting to group think and filtered answers...
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: joele on February 25, 2015, 03:22:54 am
Even bad news is good news.  Well that's how big corporation works. +5%
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: btswildpig on February 25, 2015, 03:24:19 am
I believe this is going to be good for the market cap as everything will be much more professional and similar to the way real businesses work, but something doesn't feel right with Dan submitting to group think and filtered answers...

It was the case for a long time , you know , any answer regarding the tax or legal issue or something implicating those issues are filtered by group think of lawyers and tax consultants . If not careful , it may leave some door open either  ...
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: 天籁 on February 25, 2015, 03:24:33 am
 +5%
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: CryptoPrometheus on February 25, 2015, 03:50:12 am
I know James has a very good reputation among our eastern community members, and I am sure that is well deserved. Because of this, I will give him the benefit of the doubt that his intentions are pure and just.

However, I have to say that I his post on Bytemaster's Blog today did not have the signs of a good, professionally written piece of PR. It had several grammatical errors, awkward sentence structures, and tended to read like a damage control piece.

By "public relations", does he simply mean "speech advisor" ? His list of (7) decrees to limit the speech of the devs is appropriate and understandable in the context of private advisory, but a PR professional would never have posted something like that publicly.

That said, I wonder if James would be open to answering a few questions....

1. Is he only working in an advisory capacity to the devs, or does he plan to try and coordinate with all BitShares delegates?

2. Where is his operation based - China or the US? How much time will he focus on western markets, vs. eastern markets?

3. Does he plan to aggressively pursue relationships with western media contacts? Does he have any experience with Public Relations in the United States or Europe?

4. How soon can we expect Press Releases distributed over 1st tier western wires like PR newswire, Business Wire, or PR Web? This is a cornerstone to good PR, but is relatively expensive ($250 - $1000 per Press Release). Is he receiving funds from "Invictus" (aka. BM), or will he be relying entirely on delegate pay?

Keep in mind that good Public Relations means a steady and consistent feed of information, in order to help to "shape" the narrative. Let us keep a close eye on how well this job is handled...
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: Tuck Fheman on February 25, 2015, 03:51:07 am
(http://blogwillis.zippykid.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/secret_645x400.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Aj85iwvSGdA/SxVYzpFoDsI/AAAAAAAAAAg/9HntPK21iy0/s1600/Insider_trading_ravi.jpg)
(http://www.exposeobama.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Cartoon-InsiderTrading.jpg)
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: LRENZ on February 25, 2015, 03:51:37 am
Good move I think. Blog post written with an unnecessary bearish review of the current BitShares situation though.

Also its spelt Bitshares everywhere instead of BitShares  :-*
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: btswildpig on February 25, 2015, 03:52:59 am
TL;DR (real world version)

If you are a Core Developer and wish to state an opinion about anything, use a pseudonym.


I see no problem with this, as long as opinions still get posted.

hmm...guessing which core dev you're ....kidding  :P 

On the other hand , if Core Dev post something sensitive with their own account would get different reaction from posting with pseudonym account , then I think it speaks more about the prejudice of their role and how that would affect public opinion . 

If god forbids Core Dev posted something that we as a community must object to , but under this kind of prejudice , we may even say : What a good idea .....   That alone would erase the meaning of community input .
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: onceuponatime on February 25, 2015, 04:10:26 am
The "Spokesman" could use the self-awareness to realize he needs an editor himself. Awkwardly written.

I really miss Stan's posts.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: .yoshi on February 25, 2015, 04:25:40 am
Probably for the best. Hate to say it, but Dan and Stan both have a history of making off the cuff posts on these forums which result in shareholder confusion and a loss of confidence, despite their good intentions.

That said, the English in that blog post was pretty rough. Crypto_prometheus nailed it, and I would love to see James reach out and address his inquiries.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: Riverhead on February 25, 2015, 04:33:55 am

To win we must first make it to the finish. While this leaves a bad taste in all of our mouths there is a reason corporations do this. It works. This community has seen the horrific affects of open discussion in the form of, "The Post Heard Around the World". To paraphrase a  pop culture expression, "Don't hate the player hate the game". We must adapt to an irrational and reactionary world.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: lovejoy on February 25, 2015, 04:37:11 am
Good intentions, rough execution.

Solution:

I support crypto_prometheus to speak for 'The Spokesman' in the West.

This may well yield the best of both worlds.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: QJ on February 25, 2015, 04:45:09 am
I know James has a very good reputation among our eastern community members, and I am sure that is well deserved. Because of this, I will give him the benefit of the doubt that his intentions are pure and just.

The questions are fairly asked. I was just wondering what are socalled "pure and just" intentions? what intentions are not? As long as it improves the current situation of Bitshares, by even a little bit, wouldn't it be great for the share holders? Or does it matter if they are pure and just intentions?
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: btswildpig on February 25, 2015, 04:51:50 am

To win we must first make it to the finish. While this leaves a bad taste in all of our mouths there is a reason corporations do this. It works. This community has seen the horrific affects of open discussion in the form of, "The Post Heard Around the World". To paraphrase a  pop culture expression, "Don't hate the player hate the game". We must adapt to an irrational and reactionary world.

BTS is sell for money and will continue to grow by dilution (again , money ). I guess that makes all the difference from other open source projects .

I hate to imaging if the share price cut in half and what would happen to the further development of this project . I know somebody already can't pay ends meal if this keep happening .

I know that wouldn't affect some small projects , but projects will millions of lines of code like ours and we don't have the free developer base like Linux , I don't think we can easily choose a style that "we enjoy" but a style that we can "afford" .

It's the reality , like you said .
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: Riverhead on February 25, 2015, 05:08:29 am
BTS is sell for money and will continue to grow by dilution (again , money ). I guess that makes all the difference from other open source projects .

When Bitcoin's dilution from mining can no longer pay for its security we'll see what people think of dilution then. PoW = dilution. Why we got hit over the head with it I'm not sure. Perhaps because we're (D)PoS? Maybe we just needed better PR  :P .
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: btswildpig on February 25, 2015, 05:16:22 am
BTS is sell for money and will continue to grow by dilution (again , money ). I guess that makes all the difference from other open source projects .

When Bitcoin's dilution from mining can no longer pay for its security we'll see what people think of dilution then. PoW = dilution. Why we got hit over the head with it I'm not sure. Perhaps because we're (D)PoS? Maybe we just needed better PR  :P .

The idea of DPOS dilution is that we can spare some % of growth towards further development .
But if we can't generate growth due to PR mistakes , then dilution becomes nightmare .
We must grow the price so that dilution can be our greatest weapon .
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: cube on February 25, 2015, 05:21:27 am
I am disappointed that it has come to this.

The Core Developers (including any member thereof individually) should make no comment on any subject on the forum unless approved by and posted through the Spokesman.

-5%


This is a sad day for BitShares and all its freedom-loving followers!  "to be approved by the Spokesman"  really??  Who is this mighty and all powerful Spokesman?

Frodo has a good reminder for us.

..
But wouldn't it be wrong to center everything about freedom and then hide your opinions because of fear how people will perceive you? Wouldn that proof, that we fail at achieving freedom even at such a basic level and yet we try at such a large scale?


Are we entering into a new era of Communism?
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: wasthatawolf on February 25, 2015, 05:22:47 am
"nor speak of their ideas"

Is this post a fucking joke? 
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: btswildpig on February 25, 2015, 05:28:54 am
I am disappointed that it has come to this.

The Core Developers (including any member thereof individually) should make no comment on any subject on the forum unless approved by and posted through the Spokesman.

-5%


This is a sad day for BitShares and all its freedom-loving followers!  "to be approved by the Spokesman"  really??  Who is this mighty and all powerful Spokesman?

Frodo has a good reminder for us.

..
But wouldn't it be wrong to center everything about freedom and then hide your opinions because of fear how people will perceive you? Wouldn that proof, that we fail at achieving freedom even at such a basic level and yet we try at such a large scale?


Are we entering into a new era of Communism?

I think this is capitalism , right ?
Communism is for political and economical controlling purpose .
Not about business . Everything about this thing is what business does in the western world . 
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: donkeypong on February 25, 2015, 05:43:33 am
Fine with me. I'd just ask that the PR representative (1) have someone proofread his written content before posting it and (2) please take a positive attitude towards BitShares. I thought today's article was quite well-written overall and I liked it, but there were some minor errors that should be fixed by an editor/proofreader. Also, it apologized for way too much. We don't need to do that; the past is done and new users don't know or care. Let's look forward with the tremendous potential of this transformative technology and how it can help the world.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: luckybit on February 25, 2015, 05:43:44 am
-5%

I am disappointed that it has come to this.

This is not good for the market. Now we have to factor in the element of surprise because no discussion will take place. Transparency was what made this community unique.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: btswildpig on February 25, 2015, 06:02:18 am
I think everybody wants a different BitShares .

Some want a BitShares they can talk to the developers on the forum freely even with some damaging subject regardless if it would hurt the share price or developers' income base on that price .

Some want to talk to the developers through all kinds of private channel without hurting all the other parties' interest by premature information that lead to confusion .

Some want a BitShares to be a successful business and earn decent delegate income or return on investment by contributing their time and money in it .

Some want a BitShares that can provide them more information of the project without hurting the further development . There are all kinds of transparency , there are some ways won't cause panic and confusion .

Over all , the best BitShares is the kind of BitShares that can grow against all hardship , not the kind of BitShares that can make everybody happy . If you want happiness , I think there are more easy ways to be happy , like watching TV  . 

Our mission in life is to secure life , liberty and property for all , not to provide happiness for all .
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: btswildpig on February 25, 2015, 06:19:31 am
-5%

I am disappointed that it has come to this.

This is not good for the market. Now we have to factor in the element of surprise because no discussion will take place. Transparency was what made this community unique.

I think transparency comes in many ways .
I've never seen some reputable charity organization posted on forums often , but I don't think anyone would doubt their transparency .
Why ? Because they don't need to post threads on the forum to be transparent .

The idea of transparency is all about the communication of information .
Whatever method that can do the best with the less cost , would be the best transparency of all .

We're going in o a corner . While we're enjoying the illusion of "transparency by threads" , we actually have little solid and useful information into the project . We have to chase a individual developer down for a simple technical answer , we have to chase somebody in order to know what's going on with the project . What about those who don't have time to chase them ? Where is the transparency they needed ?

So , in the end , the information was limited to a group of people the whole time . Whoever has the time to chase a developer , gets the most information . Is this kind of transparency that we would enjoy in the long run ?
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: Brekyrself on February 25, 2015, 06:34:06 am
I think everybody wants a different BitShares .

Some want a BitShares they can talk to the developers on the forum freely even with some damaging subject regardless if it would hurt the share price or developers' income base on that price .

Some want to talk to the developers through all kinds of private channel without hurting all the other parties' interest by premature information that lead to confusion .

Some want a BitShares to be a successful business and earn decent delegate income or return on investment by contributing their time and money in it .

Some want a BitShares that can provide them more information of the project without hurting the further development . There are all kinds of transparency , there are some ways won't cause panic and confusion .

Over all , the best BitShares is the kind of BitShares that can grow against all hardship , not the kind of BitShares that can make everybody happy . If you want happiness , I think there are more easy ways to be happy , like watching TV  . 

Our mission in life is to secure life , liberty and property for all , not to provide happiness for all .

This should have been the PR announcement! 

The PR announcement makes it sound like a complete and utter lockdown of a high security prison.  I hope from time to time the dev's will spend some time speaking about what's being worked on and where BTS is headed.  A spokesperson is not always the most knowledgeable and often deflects difficult questions.

I for one will miss Dan's crazy idea's that sparked heated debates thread after thread.  This is what drew me into the BTS community as the core dev's and community as a whole all put their heads together to better the product.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: btswildpig on February 25, 2015, 06:43:52 am
I think everybody wants a different BitShares .

Some want a BitShares they can talk to the developers on the forum freely even with some damaging subject regardless if it would hurt the share price or developers' income base on that price .

Some want to talk to the developers through all kinds of private channel without hurting all the other parties' interest by premature information that lead to confusion .

Some want a BitShares to be a successful business and earn decent delegate income or return on investment by contributing their time and money in it .

Some want a BitShares that can provide them more information of the project without hurting the further development . There are all kinds of transparency , there are some ways won't cause panic and confusion .

Over all , the best BitShares is the kind of BitShares that can grow against all hardship , not the kind of BitShares that can make everybody happy . If you want happiness , I think there are more easy ways to be happy , like watching TV  . 

Our mission in life is to secure life , liberty and property for all , not to provide happiness for all .

This should have been the PR announcement! 

The PR announcement makes it sound like a complete and utter lockdown of a high security prison.  I hope from time to time the dev's will spend some time speaking about what's being worked on and where BTS is headed.  A spokesperson is not always the most knowledgeable and often deflects difficult questions.

I for one will miss Dan's crazy idea's that sparked heated debates thread after thread.  This is what drew me into the BTS community as the core dev's and community as a whole all put their heads together to better the product.

Who is to say other crazy idea posted by other "names" that caused debate wasn't someone in the core dev team ?  :P
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: xeroc on February 25, 2015, 06:55:24 am
I am also divided .. I really liked the openess and it was a 'feature' that most other coins lack
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: bobmaloney on February 25, 2015, 06:59:39 am
I'd like to propose that even ideas put forth by "names" where a possible Developer identity is either known, unknown or suspected - just having that "proxy" in place, weak or not, can still offer a beneficial degree of separation in that the Developer themselves are not using the weight of their real, open identity to state that opinion or idea.

These rules can still allow capture of a high percentage of potential benefit while incurring a small percentage of potential cost.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on February 25, 2015, 07:03:41 am
I get the feeling from this that it is a knee-jerk reaction to what happened with toast last week.

I don't know if this is the right course to take. This might only be a symptom of the limitations imposed by using a forum as the medium for communication vs. possibly other newer methods.

I guess that wouldn't stop the off cuff commentary.. but maybe instead of putting it in the hands of one.. take efforts to train the culture of the devs to just follow certain protocols. In the end they will be more cohesive I would think.

I dunno just some thoughts.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: Riverhead on February 25, 2015, 07:04:07 am
I'd like to propose that even ideas put forth by "names" where a possible Developer identity is either known, unknown or suspected - just having that "proxy" in place, weak or not, can still offer a beneficial degree of separation in that the Developer themselves are not using the weight of their real, open identity to state that opinion or idea.

These rules can still allow capture of a high percentage of potential benefit while incurring a small percentage of potential cost.

Works for NewMine.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: bobmaloney on February 25, 2015, 07:08:46 am
I'd like to propose that even ideas put forth by "names" where a possible Developer identity is either known, unknown or suspected - just having that "proxy" in place, weak or not, can still offer a beneficial degree of separation in that the Developer themselves are not using the weight of their real, open identity to state that opinion or idea.

These rules can still allow capture of a high percentage of potential benefit while incurring a small percentage of potential cost.

Works for NewMine.

?  ;D
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: btswildpig on February 25, 2015, 07:12:39 am
I am also divided .. I really liked the openess and it was a 'feature' that most other coins lack

So , those developers that never talked with you on the forum , you think they're lack of openness ?

well .... if you kindly ask , I think you can talk with all of our developers on some channels besides the forum .

What the developers need should be provide more information to the public to achieve more openness by any means "properly" .
Openness in the end is about more information , not about the need to "talk" .

So far , our "openness" is only the privilege of those who can talk to developers individually only because they have more free time .
Many people didn't even know a discussion have been in place on the forum after days . 

Even something big like the merger , most people who affected the most were only realized that after all the discussion have took place .
This kind of openness only benefit the forum regulars , not the majority if the community members .
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: btswildpig on February 25, 2015, 07:14:28 am
I'd like to propose that even ideas put forth by "names" where a possible Developer identity is either known, unknown or suspected - just having that "proxy" in place, weak or not, can still offer a beneficial degree of separation in that the Developer themselves are not using the weight of their real, open identity to state that opinion or idea.

These rules can still allow capture of a high percentage of potential benefit while incurring a small percentage of potential cost.

Works for NewMine.

Wow  ,NewMine is a fake name ???  :P I must be confused ...
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: btswildpig on February 25, 2015, 07:22:16 am
I get the feeling from this that it is a knee-jerk reaction to what happened with toast last week.

I don't know if this is the right course to take. This might only be a symptom of the limitations imposed by using a forum as the medium for communication vs. possibly other newer methods.

I guess that wouldn't stop the off cuff commentary.. but maybe instead of putting it in the hands of one.. take efforts to train the culture of the devs to just follow certain protocols. In the end they will be more cohesive I would think.

I dunno just some thoughts.

I thought this was a long over due issue .
As I recalled , we've been dancing with the same shoe , "cause panic"-----"clear it"------"share price drop"-----"more panic decisions"---"clear".... In the end , we don't even have energy to grow the eco-system , just damage control . And the effects of those controls is getting weaker and weaker , because the market is tired of those mess .

If we have hundreds of free developers working for the project , then I say go ignore the voice of the market . But we don't , and share price did matters now more than ever . It's about if BitShares can offers a competitive income to further the development budget in the long run . 

After DevShares was created , I've been thinking , what's the key difference between DevShares and BitShares ?
The answer becomes clear . BitShares is the one project that has better chance of success , the one project who would have the largest scale of support .

Whoever has that kind of support , it's the real BitShares .

BitShares can only grow if we can gain the most network effect . especially in the economical sense like business adoption , investments , speculators , etc ....  If we can't ensure that  , then BitShares would eventually become DevShares , and another clone who can do better than us would become the real BitShares .

Network effect , that was the idea behind the merger in the first place .
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: fav on February 25, 2015, 07:39:08 am
PR is needed and it will be very easy to change the public mind once there are products for the people. speaking of lightwallet and webwallet.

However, I think core devs shouldn't post under their known handle, there's a spokesperson now.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: svk on February 25, 2015, 08:34:53 am
I think something like this is long overdue, although I'm worried this might be too draconian.

If we're to take that first blog post as an indication of the quality of work to expect, it fails to convince. As others have pointed out, it's full of awkward sentences and grammatical errors, I recommend bringing on board a native English speaker to write the English press releases in the future.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: matt608 on February 25, 2015, 08:42:47 am
I'm glad for this development.

The typos/missing words in the post undermine the whole thing though and it's over-apologetic.  I jumped on github last night to make corrections but they've not been edited in.  I'd like to know more about Dacx.

I'd be very happy to be an editor of the releases.

Writing sample:
http://forum.nullstreet.com/index.php/688-animated-explainer-video-script/p1#p7640
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: btswildpig on February 25, 2015, 08:43:14 am
I'm glad for this development.

The typos/missing words in the post undermine the whole thing though and it's over-apologetic.  I jumped on github last night to make corrections but they've not been edited in.  I'd like to know more about Dacx.

I'd be very happy to be an editor of the releases.

 +5% +5% +5%
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: roadscape on February 25, 2015, 08:44:53 am
If we're to take that first blog post as an indication of the quality of work to expect, it fails to convince. As others have pointed out, it's full of awkward sentences and grammatical errors, I recommend bringing on board a native English speaker to write the English press releases in the future.

Yes, and the title contradicts the content. We should consider a rewrite, or at least changing the title to "BitShares PR Proposal, by James Gong".
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: xeroc on February 25, 2015, 09:05:21 am
Quick question: does the spokesman have a mail adress?
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: inarizushi on February 25, 2015, 09:14:18 am
What an incredibly bad idea... f*ck truth and openness, confidence don't come from those overrated virtues.

And if people react badly to THIS, what an awesome meta-fail : PR crisis by announcing that there won't be any PR crisis anymore. I am not sure that the Chinese style of communication will give much confidence to the western shareholders.

What will happen to the developer hangout mumble sessions ? Please don't tell me Daniel Larimer will be replaced by James.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: lzr1900 on February 25, 2015, 09:22:39 am
fully support this idea.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: CLains on February 25, 2015, 09:29:22 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L53gjP-TtGE
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: btswildpig on February 25, 2015, 09:46:16 am

What an incredibly bad idea... f*ck truth and openness, confidence don't come from those overrated virtues.

And if people react badly to THIS, what an awesome meta-fail : PR crisis by announcing that there won't be any PR crisis anymore. I am not sure that the Chinese style of communication will give much confidence to the western shareholders.

What will happen to the developer hangout mumble sessions ? Please don't tell me Daniel Larimer will be replaced by James.

I think the general idea is that to give the actual information to the shareholders instead of just random thoughts that was supposed to be on private channel but made its way to become public information to affect all the shareholders .

Shareholders wants actual information .
Shareholders wants to know "what's happening with the project" without everyone says different answers .

I don't see this thing is shutting up openness . In fact , it would bring more openness in a way that benefit multiple parties instead of just us the regulars who have time to go through the forum .

Mumble section is the way people have been suggesting to go through all informal debates and ideas , but we keep coming back to the forum . Anyone knows we have also have a community skype groups to discuss ideas ?

If you're putting the information on the forum , then you have to prepare a solution for people around the world .
If you are hosting a mumble section , then the discussion would be more suited for premature thoughts and unclear messages .
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: cass on February 25, 2015, 09:48:04 am
http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/02/24/BitShares-now-has-professional-PR-initiative/

Thanks for your understanding!

cass
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: cass on February 25, 2015, 09:49:13 am

What an incredibly bad idea... f*ck truth and openness, confidence don't come from those overrated virtues.

And if people react badly to THIS, what an awesome meta-fail : PR crisis by announcing that there won't be any PR crisis anymore. I am not sure that the Chinese style of communication will give much confidence to the western shareholders.

What will happen to the developer hangout mumble sessions ? Please don't tell me Daniel Larimer will be replaced by James.

I think the general idea is that to give the actual information to the shareholders instead of just random thoughts that was supposed to be on private channel but made its way to become public information to affect all the shareholders .

Shareholders wants actual information .
Shareholders wants to know "what's happening with the project" without everyone says different answers .

I don't see this thing is shutting up openness . In fact , it would bring more openness in a way that benefit multiple parties instead of just us the regulars who have time to go through the forum .

Mumble section is the way people have been suggesting to go through all informal debates and ideas , but we keep coming back to the forum . Anyone knows we have also have a community skype groups to discuss ideas ?

If you're putting the information on the forum , then you have to prepare a solution for people around the world .
If you are hosting a mumble section , then the discussion would be more suited for premature thoughts and unclear messages .

Therefore we'll need a seperate investor site / Channel ... just my 2 cents!

We have several skype groups to achieve this and also our new weapon SLACK where all devs are invited to get into on closed channel for discussing things privately before releasing into the wild!
Again we're talking just about project senstive data like developement steps etc ... this is not an attack on forum freedom of speech
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: btswildpig on February 25, 2015, 09:55:12 am

What an incredibly bad idea... f*ck truth and openness, confidence don't come from those overrated virtues.

And if people react badly to THIS, what an awesome meta-fail : PR crisis by announcing that there won't be any PR crisis anymore. I am not sure that the Chinese style of communication will give much confidence to the western shareholders.

What will happen to the developer hangout mumble sessions ? Please don't tell me Daniel Larimer will be replaced by James.

I think the general idea is that to give the actual information to the shareholders instead of just random thoughts that was supposed to be on private channel but made its way to become public information to affect all the shareholders .

Shareholders wants actual information .
Shareholders wants to know "what's happening with the project" without everyone says different answers .

I don't see this thing is shutting up openness . In fact , it would bring more openness in a way that benefit multiple parties instead of just us the regulars who have time to go through the forum .

Mumble section is the way people have been suggesting to go through all informal debates and ideas , but we keep coming back to the forum . Anyone knows we have also have a community skype groups to discuss ideas ?

If you're putting the information on the forum , then you have to prepare a solution for people around the world .
If you are hosting a mumble section , then the discussion would be more suited for premature thoughts and unclear messages .

Therefore we'll need a seperate investor site / Channel ... just my 2 cents!

It's hard to do that in a short time when the forum was nearly the sole source of major decisions for the past year . Even the merger was base on "forum vote" instead of shareholder' vote .
I've already pictured several potential "free discussion" that could have make more damage on the project .
But no , I wouldn't tell you guys what those discussion would be in case some competitors bate us into that corner .  :P
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: CLains on February 25, 2015, 10:35:15 am
Funny how we already solved this problem with DPOS. What do you do when centralization causes bad PR? You move away from centralization. What do you do when you need some element of centralized control? You scale decentralization down to select delegates.

Each person has their own quirks - there is no use relegating PR from one man to the next. If we don't want *everyone* to know, we can still send it out to 11 people for peer review. We can do the multi-sig dance and require 6 of the 11 people to approve a given "official" statement.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: cube on February 25, 2015, 10:42:01 am
What an incredibly bad idea... f*ck truth and openness, confidence don't come from those overrated virtues.

And if people react badly to THIS, what an awesome meta-fail :

PR crisis by announcing that there won't be any PR crisis anymore.

What will happen to the developer hangout mumble sessions ? Please don't tell me Daniel Larimer will be replaced by James.

James has an account here - https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=21

Why is James keeping quiet amid a terrible PR crisis unfolding? Is he not "The Spokesman", the newly appointed BitShares' PR?
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: btswildpig on February 25, 2015, 10:47:40 am
What an incredibly bad idea... f*ck truth and openness, confidence don't come from those overrated virtues.

And if people react badly to THIS, what an awesome meta-fail :

PR crisis by announcing that there won't be any PR crisis anymore.

What will happen to the developer hangout mumble sessions ? Please don't tell me Daniel Larimer will be replaced by James.

James has an account here - https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=21

Why is James keeping quiet amid a terrible PR crisis unfolding? Is he not "The Spokesman"?

I think because of the fact that all of the developers are sleeping and the spokeman need to communicate with the developers first before jumping out and say anything . Even spokesman's voice should be vetted by the developers . 
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: santaclause102 on February 25, 2015, 10:53:19 am
This PR initiative is very understandable to me from how the Chinese side experienced Bitshares and from the trouble they had with Bitshares: Open discussions about possible strategic changes in English that were easily interpreted as announcements and led to a ton of FUD. I therefore appreciate this initiative also since the Chinese community is essential to the success of Bitshares! So I appreciate the initiative and think that James is a great person to handle this!

On the other side I think it is highly inappropriate for the English speaking side of the Bitshares community, for a few reasons:
1. The English of the announcement is not worthy of a Spokesman that is communicating in English. Try to picture how this is perceived from the outside: A non public perception sensitive communication (before this announcement) is replaced by communication with broken English.
2. I don't think BM and devs should not say anything in public anymore. There is more than all or nothing. Good PR / strategic comm. means communication that is aware of public perception and consistent in it's message but not non existent!
3. Bytemaster and his authenticity are unique in this space (and beyond). Much of the reason why I like to be here is that he let's others take part in his vision. I just always hoped that BM would be open to honest and constructive feedback to align the message he intents to put out there with the one that is received by the public.
4. How aware can James be of western narratives like this https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=13065.msg172599#msg172599. I am a bit sad that community feedback was ignored  that could have achieved (3).

Suggestion: A PR team for Bitshares which is shaped by its two relatively separate Chinese and Western Communities has to:
a) consist of a western and an eastern part that work together on a consistent message but adapt their communications according to the specifics of their audience (and I think James is the most excellent person for the Chinese side of this!!).
b) give BM as much freedom to express his vision while aligning the intended message with the perceived message and align the strategic goals of the Bitshares project with the way Bitshares is communicated (example: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=12585.0;all).

I tried to get a PR-feedback-as-a-service-group for the core dev team going (mumble session Jan. 16.). Everyone (incl. BM) was happy about the initiative. I messaged BM a few times here on the forum about it to get it going - no reply.

One essential rule to avoid PR disasters would be: Vet your actions with everyone involved. If we assume that the western marketing community (nullstreet) is a group that has an opinion on the PR matter, then this rule has been ignored here with a predictable result. 

I know James has a very good reputation among our eastern community members, and I am sure that is well deserved. Because of this, I will give him the benefit of the doubt that his intentions are pure and just.

However, I have to say that I his post on Bytemaster's Blog today did not have the signs of a good, professionally written piece of PR. It had several grammatical errors, awkward sentence structures, and tended to read like a damage control piece.

By "public relations", does he simply mean "speech advisor" ? His list of (7) decrees to limit the speech of the devs is appropriate and understandable in the context of private advisory, but a PR professional would never have posted something like that publicly.

That said, I wonder if James would be open to answering a few questions....

1. Is he only working in an advisory capacity to the devs, or does he plan to try and coordinate with all BitShares delegates?

2. Where is his operation based - China or the US? How much time will he focus on western markets, vs. eastern markets?

3. Does he plan to aggressively pursue relationships with western media contacts? Does he have any experience with Public Relations in the United States or Europe?

4. How soon can we expect Press Releases distributed over 1st tier western wires like PR newswire, Business Wire, or PR Web? This is a cornerstone to good PR, but is relatively expensive ($250 - $1000 per Press Release). Is he receiving funds from "Invictus" (aka. BM), or will he be relying entirely on delegate pay?

Keep in mind that good Public Relations means a steady and consistent feed of information, in order to help to "shape" the narrative. Let us keep a close eye on how well this job is handled...
+5%

Therefore we'll need a seperate investor site / Channel ... just my 2 cents!
  +5%
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: 38PTSWarrior on February 25, 2015, 11:11:06 am
Good that is has been temporary removed because the first few sentences I thought bytemaster is writing it..
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: cass on February 25, 2015, 11:19:48 am
Funny how we already solved this problem with DPOS. What do you do when centralization causes bad PR? You move away from centralization. What do you do when you need some element of centralized control? You scale decentralization down to select delegates.

Each person has their own quirks - there is no use relegating PR from one man to the next. If we don't want *everyone* to know, we can still send it out to 11 people for peer review. We can do the multi-sig dance and require 6 of the 11 people to approve a given "official" statement.

thats why we have to from a global PR Team!!!!!
Not just eastern or western - GLOBALLLL!!!!!

@delulo: well said, 2nd that!
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: Tuck Fheman on February 25, 2015, 11:31:15 am
This might only be a symptom of the limitations imposed by using a forum as the medium for communication vs. possibly other newer methods.

https://slack.com (https://slack.com)
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: Tuck Fheman on February 25, 2015, 11:35:36 am
I am also divided .. I really liked the openess and it was a 'feature' that most other coins lack

(https://blogs.adobe.com/agile/files/2012/06/feature.jpeg)
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: cass on February 25, 2015, 11:50:25 am
This might only be a symptom of the limitations imposed by using a forum as the medium for communication vs. possibly other newer methods.

https://slack.com (https://nullstreet.slack.com)

yup
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: Tuck Fheman on February 25, 2015, 12:00:13 pm
If this was in place a year ago ... I'd probably just be hearing about BitShares now ... while the dev's hash out what can/can't be said publicly and wait for approval. 

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vrlJYttAL7Y/UMpYSD3F9lI/AAAAAAAAD8E/5FCN6nshy2g/s1600/shall-not-pass.gif)

 :P
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: Tuck Fheman on February 25, 2015, 12:02:55 pm
PR crisis by announcing that there won't be any PR crisis anymore.

You sir are making far too much sense, banish him! ... until someone approves his post first.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: Tuck Fheman on February 25, 2015, 12:17:17 pm
Even spokesman's voice should be vetted by the developers .

There should be a bunch of committee's formed to approve each individuals opinions, then another committee to approve that committee's opinion and then have a vote among those committee's to determine if we the people get to hear any of those opinions, then a single entity to proclaim the committee's have decided we can/can't hear those opinions. But we should vote (from a group of people determined by another sekrut committee) on who that single entity is, until ultimately we're all completely disillusioned by the massiveness and furtiveness of said system.

But, then again ... my opinion hasn't been vetted by a committee yet, so take it for what you will.

Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: bytemaster on February 25, 2015, 12:24:41 pm
I think the "hard rules" were meant to show intent.  An occasional forum post about something trivial is still ok.   

For me the primary benefit of the new approach is that I can get the developers much more focused because many of them sink too much time into the forum.  This place is great and I love you all, but ultimately tending to the forum is slowing development. 

An increase in transparency by a reduction in clutter is what this represents.   It is like Where's Waldo in this forum.  Sure he is right out in public, but you may never find him.   Under the new approach we are clearing the room so everyone can easily find Waldo. 
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: btswildpig on February 25, 2015, 12:28:37 pm
I think the "hard rules" were meant to show intent.  An occasional forum post about something trivial is still ok.   

For me the primary benefit of the new approach is that I can get the developers much more focused because many of them sink too much time into the forum.  This place is great and I love you all, but ultimately tending to the forum is slowing development. 

An increase in transparency by a reduction in clutter is what this represents.   It is like Where's Waldo in this forum.  Sure he is right out in public, but you may never find him.   Under the new approach we are clearing the room so everyone can easily find Waldo.

 +5%
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: cass on February 25, 2015, 01:00:14 pm
I think the "hard rules" were meant to show intent.  An occasional forum post about something trivial is still ok.   

For me the primary benefit of the new approach is that I can get the developers much more focused because many of them sink too much time into the forum.  This place is great and I love you all, but ultimately tending to the forum is slowing development. 

An increase in transparency by a reduction in clutter is what this represents.   It is like Where's Waldo in this forum.  Sure he is right out in public, but you may never find him.   Under the new approach we are clearing the room so everyone can easily find Waldo.

well said  !!  +5%
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: wasthatawolf on February 25, 2015, 01:00:57 pm
Sooo who's the all powerful gatekeeper of ideas?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on February 25, 2015, 01:07:11 pm
Funny how we already solved this problem with DPOS. What do you do when centralization causes bad PR? You move away from centralization. What do you do when you need some element of centralized control? You scale decentralization down to select delegates.

Each person has their own quirks - there is no use relegating PR from one man to the next. If we don't want *everyone* to know, we can still send it out to 11 people for peer review. We can do the multi-sig dance and require 6 of the 11 people to approve a given "official" statement.

thats why we have to from a global PR Team!!!!!
Not just eastern or western - GLOBALLLL!!!!!

@delulo: well said, 2nd that!

Global sound good to me. It might help us make inroads into more markets that way. We already have a diverse community that could lead an initiative like this.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: btswildpig on February 25, 2015, 01:09:15 pm
Sooo who's the all powerful gatekeeper of ideas?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Everyone cares for the future of this project and with the interest , time and devotion is the gatekeeper .
Are you interested ? There is place for you and other long term members .

The forum is the issue here , not the action . We can communicate ideas in a more effective way in other places, just not able to do it on the forum without damage for a long time .
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: wasthatawolf on February 25, 2015, 01:39:40 pm
Sooo who's the all powerful gatekeeper of ideas?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Everyone cares for the future of this project and with the interest , time and devotion is the gatekeeper .
Are you interested ? There is place for you and other long term members .

The forum is the issue here , not the action . We can communicate ideas in a more effective way in other places, just not able to do it on the forum without damage for a long time .

It was not clear from the post (which is now removed so I can't refer back to it) that it is the forum itself that is the issue.  I can appreciate Dan's comment that people spend an inordinate amount of time on the forums but that is not what the tone of that blog post portrayed.

Everyone needs to understand that you have zero control over the market cap by trying to filter the ideas of developers.  Anyone hoping to make a quick profit will be flushed out. The open flow of communication is what drew me in to Bitshares in the first place (obviously I can't speak for everyone else but that seems to be the general sentiment).
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: fuzzy on February 25, 2015, 02:04:38 pm
Very interesting discussion going on here. It was kind of a bad time I guess for me to have a weekend with my baby for his 1st birthday...didn't keep up with the forum enough to see the blog post thread. Now I can't access the actual post so it is going to be hard to understand all the context around which this conversation is revolving.  However,  it obviously will to a degree effect hangouts,  so with my limited understanding of the situation. ..please let me help clarify how I see this.

As far as the project updates from bytemaster.   He stated that some large shareholders wanted him to stop making public statements.  I guess the way the system is constructed makes largest shareholders the most valuable,  which makes sense to a large degree.  And to be clear I am not necessarily in disagreement.

Of course this should serve as a lesson to everyone here that if they want true power in bitshares, they should first and foremost ensure they are large stakeholders before giving to causes they believe in--or should at least remain very much aware that giving directly decreases their influence.   This has honestly never been a secret though.

If people dislike the path BitShares is taking,  I would simply say "this is why AGS and PTS existed in the first place! " 1So make your own DAC, sharedrop on the people who had a grand vision of a world with many competing DACs, and compete against BitShares by being the change you want to see!

If you disagree with these actions, prove they were wrong by being open AND more successful...it is possible!

I will miss BM'S presence at hangouts,  but I know for a fact that they started out small before and will continue getting bigger.   Besides. ..imho, now the only thing BM should working on is coding.  There is a natural progression here that I see. ..and that is that bytemaster is slowly moving away from the leadership role and ceding it to other people like delegates and third party developers. This is because bitshares is growing up.

I Intend on continting to organize events for these people as they will more and more begin representing the new leadership in bitshares moving forward anyway.  I will also keep my eyes open for covering more DACS built on BitShares.



Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: btswildpig on February 25, 2015, 02:06:58 pm
Sooo who's the all powerful gatekeeper of ideas?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Everyone cares for the future of this project and with the interest , time and devotion is the gatekeeper .
Are you interested ? There is place for you and other long term members .

The forum is the issue here , not the action . We can communicate ideas in a more effective way in other places, just not able to do it on the forum without damage for a long time .

It was not clear from the post (which is now removed so I can't refer back to it) that it is the forum itself that is the issue.  I can appreciate Dan's comment that people spend an inordinate amount of time on the forums but that is not what the tone of that blog post portrayed.

Everyone needs to understand that you have zero control over the market cap by trying to filter the ideas of developers.  Anyone hoping to make a quick profit will be flushed out. The open flow of communication is what drew me in to Bitshares in the first place (obviously I can't speak for everyone else but that seems to be the general sentiment).


The problem with forum is , everyone assume it's a "open communication" while in fact just a few people participate in the discussions . Developers spent their time to discuss with a few people , but the consequence is for the majority of the shareholders to handle , let alone for those don't even have time to go to the forum in the first place . So in the end , a place is supposed to be a open communication channel becomes the stage for a few people while they don't even take the discussions seriously .

Sometimes I see more effective discussions on Skype , mumble , nullstreet , etc ...

If you want what to be in the action , joint the action . No one is forbidding you to talk to the developers privately  through all kinds of channels .
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: xeroc on February 25, 2015, 02:15:21 pm
I think the "hard rules" were meant to show intent.  An occasional forum post about something trivial is still ok.   

For me the primary benefit of the new approach is that I can get the developers much more focused because many of them sink too much time into the forum.  This place is great and I love you all, but ultimately tending to the forum is slowing development. 

An increase in transparency by a reduction in clutter is what this represents.   It is like Where's Waldo in this forum.  Sure he is right out in public, but you may never find him.   Under the new approach we are clearing the room so everyone can easily find Waldo.
ehm .. you are not seriously asking @vikram to reduce his presence here, are you?
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: fuzzy on February 25, 2015, 02:20:53 pm
Quote from: btswildpig
The problem with forum is , everyone assume it's a "open communication".
It is open communication though, right? It is generally transparent...though easily lost.

Quote from: btswildpig
Sometimes I see more effective discussions on Skype , mumble , nullstreet , etc ...
On this point I'm kind of lost. ..my impression was that BM would no longer be announcing anything or speaking openly with the community.


Quote from: btswildpig
If you want what to be in the action , joint the action . No one is forbidding you to talk to the developers privately  through all kinds of channels .
I agree 100 percent here..but it does bring up the discussion  as to whether it is worth people's time to communicate on the BitShares platform or if the best form of communication is to have a majority stake in the ecosystem.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: wasthatawolf on February 25, 2015, 02:32:42 pm
The problem with forum is , everyone assume it's a "open communication" while in fact just a few people participate in the discussions . Developers spent their time to discuss with a few people , but the consequence is for the majority of the shareholders to handle , let alone for those don't even have time to go to the forum in the first place . So in the end , a place is supposed to be a open communication channel becomes the stage for a few people while they don't even take the discussions seriously .

Sometimes I see more effective discussions on Skype , mumble , nullstreet , etc ...

If you want what to be in the action , joint the action . No one is forbidding you to talk to the developers privately  through all kinds of channels .

I don't disagree that the forum can be disorganized at times and is not perfect regarding dissemination of ideas.  That is not the issue here.

The issue, as it appears to me, is that the plan going forward is for this "spokesman" to be a filter for all public discussion and comments made by core developers.  This is an unnecessary bottleneck and will likely do more harm than good.  It seems like a desperation move to appease a handful of large holders of Bitshares.  Honestly, if these large holders don't like the developers talking to the community in an open forum they should liquidate their holdings.  Bending to the will of these large holders and putting a leash on the developers seems to me to go against the core values of Bitshares.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: btswildpig on February 25, 2015, 02:33:13 pm
Quote from: btswildpig
The problem with forum is , everyone assume it's a "open communication".
It is open communication though, right? It is generally transparent...though easily lost.

Quote from: btswildpig
Sometimes I see more effective discussions on Skype , mumble , nullstreet , etc ...
On this point I'm kind of lost. ..my impression was that BM would no longer be announcing anything or speaking openly with the community.


Quote from: btswildpig
If you want what to be in the action , joint the action . No one is forbidding you to talk to the developers privately  through all kinds of channels .
I agree 100 percent here..but it does bring up the discussion  as to whether it is worth people's time to communicate on the BitShares platform or if the best form of communication is to have a majority stake in the ecosystem.

The real form of communication so far is to have the most time in the eco-system  .
Whoever gets the most time , you're the winner , and others lose simply because they don't have time to follow tons of posts .
So in the end , people always gets first hand information simply because they have time .

And it will continue to be those who have time , just by more informal approach .

And that settles , who wants first hand information , should be paying more trouble for it , like communicate with the developers privately .

Whoever wants actual and solid information , it should be provided to them in a more formal way .

Informal and formal information are not supposed to be discussed in the same place or with the same manner . But we keep ignoring that fact and leave the forum as the only formal information outlet .
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: fuzzy on February 25, 2015, 02:46:07 pm
Quote from: btswildpig
The problem with forum is , everyone assume it's a "open communication".
It is open communication though, right? It is generally transparent...though easily lost.

Quote from: btswildpig
Sometimes I see more effective discussions on Skype , mumble , nullstreet , etc ...
On this point I'm kind of lost. ..my impression was that BM would no longer be announcing anything or speaking openly with the community.


Quote from: btswildpig
If you want what to be in the action , joint the action . No one is forbidding you to talk to the developers privately  through all kinds of channels .
I agree 100 percent here..but it does bring up the discussion  as to whether it is worth people's time to communicate on the BitShares platform or if the best form of communication is to have a majority stake in the ecosystem.

The real form of communication so far is to have the most time in the eco-system  .
Whoever gets the most time , you're the winner , and others lose simply because they don't have time to follow tons of posts .
So in the end , people always gets first hand information simply because they have time .

And it will continue to be those who have time , just by more informal approach .

And that settles , who wants first hand information , should be paying more trouble for it , like communicate with the developers privately .

Whoever wants actual and solid information , it should be provided to them in a more formal way .

Informal and formal information are not supposed to be discussed in the same place or with the same manner . But we keep ignoring that fact and leave the forum as the only formal information outlet .

This is not true though.  Many people attended or listened to the hangouts because in approximately one hour they received a boiled down version of core topics of importance to them every week.

Again I don't day this for personal reasons. ..it is simple fact.

As for expecting people to reach out directly to devs in private...I think you must be one of the lucky ones who gets responses.   Most forum members are not so lucky and it has very little to do with the devs lack of interest and far more to do with efficient communication and time management.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: fuzzy on February 25, 2015, 02:53:14 pm
The problem with forum is , everyone assume it's a "open communication" while in fact just a few people participate in the discussions . Developers spent their time to discuss with a few people , but the consequence is for the majority of the shareholders to handle , let alone for those don't even have time to go to the forum in the first place . So in the end , a place is supposed to be a open communication channel becomes the stage for a few people while they don't even take the discussions seriously .

Sometimes I see more effective discussions on Skype , mumble , nullstreet , etc ...

If you want what to be in the action , joint the action . No one is forbidding you to talk to the developers privately  through all kinds of channels .

I don't disagree that the forum can be disorganized at times and is not perfect regarding dissemination of ideas.  That is not the issue here.

The issue, as it appears to me, is that the plan going forward is for this "spokesman" to be a filter for all public discussion and comments made by core developers.  This is an unnecessary bottleneck and will likely do more harm than good.  It seems like a desperation move to appease a handful of large holders of Bitshares.  Honestly, if these large holders don't like the developers talking to the community in an open forum they should liquidate their holdings.  Bending to the will of these large holders and putting a leash on the developers seems to me to go against the core values of Bitshares.

Now people will begin to see why I've wanted many bitshares based chains.  It gives everyone the ability to join the ones they are most platform inclined to agree with.  It is like being able to choose what countries you want to have citizenship in based on the ideas and priciples they adhere yo.

Lol...not "yo"... *to*
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: btswildpig on February 25, 2015, 03:06:51 pm
The problem with forum is , everyone assume it's a "open communication" while in fact just a few people participate in the discussions . Developers spent their time to discuss with a few people , but the consequence is for the majority of the shareholders to handle , let alone for those don't even have time to go to the forum in the first place . So in the end , a place is supposed to be a open communication channel becomes the stage for a few people while they don't even take the discussions seriously .

Sometimes I see more effective discussions on Skype , mumble , nullstreet , etc ...

If you want what to be in the action , joint the action . No one is forbidding you to talk to the developers privately  through all kinds of channels .

I don't disagree that the forum can be disorganized at times and is not perfect regarding dissemination of ideas.  That is not the issue here.

The issue, as it appears to me, is that the plan going forward is for this "spokesman" to be a filter for all public discussion and comments made by core developers.  This is an unnecessary bottleneck and will likely do more harm than good.  It seems like a desperation move to appease a handful of large holders of Bitshares.  Honestly, if these large holders don't like the developers talking to the community in an open forum they should liquidate their holdings.  Bending to the will of these large holders and putting a leash on the developers seems to me to go against the core values of Bitshares.

You're assuming there will be enough budget for further development for this complicated project with over 1 million lines of code if major investors keep leaving . Especially when we're on the edge of competing with several other 2.0 projects .

Once you can get more free developers in here to ensure the future of the development budget , your point would be more valid . Or better yet , become one , see if you would still act like anything would be normal if investors keep leaving .

You can't expect to benefit from the investors through AGS , dilution and thus has the advantage over all the other projects while expecting things to be perfect once you kick them out . BitShares is where it is now majorly because of the serious investors so that we could afford a dream team in the first place .

This is a company , it's suppose to gain the mass investors , users , and network effect . That's what we've been told during the merger .
I don't think actual network effect can be accomplished if we want to kick the big investors out .

Although , I'm not sure if you're understand "big holder" correctly . .
From my understanding , they're building a whole industry for BitShares , including network effects , relationships with business , it's not the kind of simple "buyer" you're think of . Their efforts matters more than your typical big holders .

Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: wasthatawolf on February 25, 2015, 03:30:16 pm
You're assuming there will be enough budget for further development for this complicated project with over 1 million lines of code if major investors keep leaving . Especially when we're on the edge of competing with several other 2.0 projects .

Once you can get more free developers in here to ensure the future of the development budget , your point would be more valid . Or better yet , become one , see if you would still act like anything would be normal if investors keep leaving .

You can't expect to benefit from the investors through AGS , dilution and thus has the advantage over all the other projects while expecting things to be perfect once you kick them out . BitShares is where it is now majorly because of the serious investors so that we could afford a dream team in the first place .

This is a company , it's suppose to gain the mass investors , users , and network effect . That's what we've been told during the merger .
I don't think actual network effect can be accomplished if we want to kick the big investors out .

Although , I'm not sure if you're understand "big holder" correctly . .
From my understanding , they're building a whole industry for BitShares , including network effects , relationships with business , it's not the kind of simple "buyer" you're think of . Their efforts matters more than your typical big holders .

This is not a company in the traditional sense.  It is a peer to peer software package.  If these large investors liquidate their holdings, there is another party or parties on the other end of that transaction.  It does not destroy the network.  Handcuffing developers weakens the network.  Not being open with the community weakens the network.  Relying on a "spokesman" to disseminate ideas and information weakens the network.

You are assuming the "spokesman" approach is the only way to raise market cap (which in turn increases developer pay).  I think this is naive and you are pandering to a group that does not decide the success of the network.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: btswildpig on February 25, 2015, 03:59:53 pm
You're assuming there will be enough budget for further development for this complicated project with over 1 million lines of code if major investors keep leaving . Especially when we're on the edge of competing with several other 2.0 projects .

Once you can get more free developers in here to ensure the future of the development budget , your point would be more valid . Or better yet , become one , see if you would still act like anything would be normal if investors keep leaving .

You can't expect to benefit from the investors through AGS , dilution and thus has the advantage over all the other projects while expecting things to be perfect once you kick them out . BitShares is where it is now majorly because of the serious investors so that we could afford a dream team in the first place .

This is a company , it's suppose to gain the mass investors , users , and network effect . That's what we've been told during the merger .
I don't think actual network effect can be accomplished if we want to kick the big investors out .

Although , I'm not sure if you're understand "big holder" correctly . .
From my understanding , they're building a whole industry for BitShares , including network effects , relationships with business , it's not the kind of simple "buyer" you're think of . Their efforts matters more than your typical big holders .

This is not a company in the traditional sense.  It is a peer to peer software package.  If these large investors liquidate their holdings, there is another party or parties on the other end of that transaction.  It does not destroy the network.  Handcuffing developers weakens the network.  Not being open with the community weakens the network.  Relying on a "spokesman" to disseminate ideas and information weakens the network.

You are assuming the "spokesman" approach is the only way to raise market cap (which in turn increases developer pay).  I think this is naive and you are pandering to a group that does not decide the success of the network.

Tell me more ways .
I like to know what kind of effort will raise market cap .
It is needed badly now more than ever . So , you input ?
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: wasthatawolf on February 25, 2015, 04:53:10 pm
I like to know what kind of effort will raise market cap .
It is needed badly now more than ever . So , you input ?

I would start with a clear development road map.  See MaidSafe for example, http://maidsafe.net/roadmap.

It is uncertainty that shakes most investors and the market in general.  Constantly changing direction under the guise of "growing up" is just confusing.  Develop a road map and stick to it.  The other 2.0 projects have for the most part been very clear as to their goals and how they plan to get there.

That being said, as much as most here don't want to admit, so goes the market value of Bitcoin so goes the market value of other blockchain tech.  There is not a lot the Bitshares community can do to change this.  This is a long term investment, and a very risky one at that.  It's a fool's errand to try and analyze what affects the market cap on a day to day basis.


Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: btswildpig on February 25, 2015, 05:08:45 pm
I like to know what kind of effort will raise market cap .
It is needed badly now more than ever . So , you input ?

I would start with a clear development road map.  See MaidSafe for example, http://maidsafe.net/roadmap.

It is uncertainty that shakes most investors and the market in general.  Constantly changing direction under the guise of "growing up" is just confusing.  Develop a road map and stick to it.  The other 2.0 projects have for the most part been very clear as to their goals and how they plan to get there.

That being said, as much as most here don't want to admit, so goes the market value of Bitcoin so goes the market value of other blockchain tech.  There is not a lot the Bitshares community can do to change this.  This is a long term investment, and a very risky one at that.  It's a fool's errand to try and analyze what affects the market cap on a day to day basis.

Further communication indicates open information like this was part of the plan in a revised draft of this announcement to further the proper transparency needed for the public like yourself ,  just lost in the E-mails sent to BM and it was expected to be vetted by every one of the developers first before publishing it . I've asked people to remove the post until the right one can be obtained .

The up-to-date plan is different from this old one days ago .
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: speedy on February 25, 2015, 05:12:35 pm
Tell me more ways .
I like to know what kind of effort will raise market cap .
It is needed badly now more than ever . So , you input ?

What we need is more liquidity in the BitUSD:BitBTC market. This will mean you never have to leave our ecosystem, even if you are only bullish on BTC and not on BTS.

My market maker bot should be up and running in a few days. Its got a cool little GUI that lets you set your open & cancel margin levels according to your level of risk.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: Gentso1 on February 25, 2015, 05:17:44 pm
This is such a good thing that I can not even begin to put it into words.



Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: gamey on February 25, 2015, 05:17:50 pm
I'm not sure everyone has the cause and effect correct.  Maybe they do, maybe they don't.

The whole thing was incredibly amaturish.  If you are going to call yourself a professional PR whatever, then your first public announcement is what we saw....  I don't even know where to start.

I do believe there is a communication issue here, regardless of what is claimed.  Why does there appear to be 2 fairly distinct takes on everything, split by the West/East. I don't think it can be overcome totally but things can be done.  I think a lot of people would agree about Dan.  He either pisses off other blockchain projects, or somehow seeds panic in others.  He needs a PR adviser. That is for sure.

My personal belief is we just need to move quickly to a new model of government/proposals. That is the problem. I don't have as much faith in Dan anymore but I still see Bitshares as having a lot of potential.

What does a real Western company do?  They get rid of the CEO.  Well we can't do that and we wouldn't want to lose Dan, but I would like to see his power lessened. This can be done by having stakeholders vote on what to prioritize/fund in a reasonable manner.  When that happens people don't have to run screaming everytime they hear a word thunder down off Mount Bytemaster.  Instead, it'll just be Dan our chief advisor, one voice amongst many.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: NewMine on February 25, 2015, 05:28:24 pm
This will go over well with the non-Bitshares cryptocurrency community.

It amazes me the lack of foresight involved with a decision like this.  This could've been kept private and BM's post frequency minimized, as it should be. Typing and answering forum posts is not coding.  No need to announce a man in the high castle will be editing his posts and others.

The big problem is you have a couple Chinese whales pulling strings here. Their thoughts and ideas may be right but this is the wrong way of going about it. Unfortunately they have been threatening BM that they will divest and are scaring him into their will. 

This is only the beginning of what the Chinese whales want. More to come....Don't get me wrong, I fully agree with what they want, but the inevitable results will kill Bitshares. 
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: muse-umum on February 25, 2015, 05:28:27 pm
This is the most exiciting news that I've ever heard of since last Oct. +5000000%
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: Tuck Fheman on February 25, 2015, 05:34:48 pm
The big problem is you have a couple Chinese whales pulling strings here.

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/shq.gif)

(https://41.media.tumblr.com/e3af715495d0a890a1e893c856f5374d/tumblr_nkca0oNhB21rtef2wo1_1280.jpg)
go ahead (if you haven't already) and hit 'ignore'
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: btswildpig on February 25, 2015, 05:38:55 pm
This will go over well with the non-Bitshares cryptocurrency community.

It amazes me the lack of foresight involved with a decision like this.  This could've been kept private and BM's post frequency minimized, as it should be. Typing and answering forum posts is not coding.  No need to announce a man in the high castle will be editing his posts and others.

The big problem is you have a couple Chinese whales pulling strings here. Their thoughts and ideas may be right but this is the wrong way of going about it. Unfortunately they have been threatening BM that they will divest and are scaring him into their will. 

This is only the beginning of what the Chinese whales want. More to come....Don't get me wrong, I fully agree with what they want, but the inevitable results will kill Bitshares.

I think the small fish in China has been asking for this too . Just got ignored .
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: yellowecho on February 25, 2015, 05:57:39 pm
I was late to the announcement so I couldn't read the details but from what I've gathered there will be a PR representative that will help organize and translate development news which has been needed for quite some time IMO. 

I think the small fish in China has been asking for this too . Just got ignored .

I agree.  BitShares is a decentralized autonomous community but we live in separate camps on the forum because of the translation barrier.  Everything is transparent which is wonderful but it's unorganized and difficult to follow for those that don't speak English or don't live on GitHub.  We need the international community to come together and I think this is a positive step towards that direction and I see this PR position as being very beneficial (and much needed) if done properly. 
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: NewMine on February 26, 2015, 03:47:23 pm
Why did this get buried?

This was not a misunderstanding. Nobody is that dumb to believe that.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: Tuck Fheman on February 27, 2015, 12:41:43 am
Nobody is that dumb to believe that.

"If you say 'gullible' slowly, it sounds like 'oranges'."
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: James212 on February 27, 2015, 03:16:56 pm
I am disappointed that it has come to this.

The Core Developers (including any member thereof individually) should make no comment on any subject on the forum unless approved by and posted through the Spokesman.

-5%

 +5% +5%
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: xeroc on February 27, 2015, 04:17:13 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/QzkMuWU.jpg)
??? Seriously?
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: James212 on February 27, 2015, 05:08:50 pm



Quote
I would start with a clear development road map.  See MaidSafe for example, http://maidsafe.net/roadmap.

It is uncertainty that shakes most investors and the market in general.  Constantly changing direction under the guise of "growing up" is just confusing.  Develop a road map and stick to it.  The other 2.0 projects have for the most part been very clear as to their goals and how they plan to get there.

 +5%
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: cube on February 27, 2015, 05:23:28 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/QzkMuWU.jpg)
??? Seriously?

We wouldn't want to bring back painful memories, would we?
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: zerosum on February 27, 2015, 06:05:31 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/QzkMuWU.jpg)
??? Seriously?

Yes, absolutely seriously:

Goebbels was one of the best PR guys of all times - he knew how it works.

“It would not be impossible to prove with sufficient repetition and a psychological understanding of the people concerned that a square is in fact a circle. They are mere words, and words can be molded until they clothe ideas and disguise.”

The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.”


-------
Additionally, here is what the spokesmen wrote, after self appointing himself in that position of course:

"1.The Core Developers (including any member thereof individually) should ... nor speak of their ideas thereof on the forum until ...the Spokesman grants clearance .... "

"2.The Core Developers (including any member thereof individually) should make no comment on any subject on the forum unless approved by and posted through the Spokesman. ...."

"3.The Core Developers (including any member thereof individually) should not disclose  information ... unless approved by and communicated through the Spokesman."

"4.The Core Developers (including any member thereof individually) should not air their internal discussions or debates on any open issue until  ... the Spokesman grants clearance to that disclosure."

"5.The Core Developers (including any member thereof individually) should never comment on any ... unless approved by and posted through the Spokesman"

"6.The Core Developers (including any member thereof individually) should not answer any ...unless relevant questions or requests are directed by the Spokesman to the Core Developers and the answers of the Core Developers are approved by and communicated through the Spokesman."

So the above does not scream Nazi Germany for you? For me it does.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: Ander on February 27, 2015, 06:53:49 pm

The big problem is you have a couple Chinese whales pulling strings here. Their thoughts and ideas may be right but this is the wrong way of going about it. Unfortunately they have been threatening BM that they will divest and are scaring him into their will. 

This is only the beginning of what the Chinese whales want. More to come....Don't get me wrong, I fully agree with what they want, but the inevitable results will kill Bitshares.

I think your interpretation of events is pretty absurd.  You are clearly just looking for ways to interpret things in a sinister way to FUD bitshares.


This is not some malevolent takeover attempt by chinese whales, it is simply yet more incompetence when it comes to PR by people who are involved in bitshares.

Essentially, some chinese guys are like: "Wow, those western guys are incompetent at PR!  Lets take charge of the PR situaiton".  But then they are just as incompetent and post this absurd thing without thinking it through either or running it by people.


Quote
This will go over well with the non-Bitshares cryptocurrency community.

Why are you so determined to FUD bitshares to the greater crypto community? 
Yes, everyone in bitshares is utterly worthless at PR and they give you ample opportunities to do this.  But why do you hate Bitshares so much?

Quote
It amazes me the lack of foresight involved with a decision like this.  This could've been kept private and BM's post frequency minimized, as it should be. Typing and answering forum posts is not coding.  No need to announce a man in the high castle will be editing his posts and others.

Yep, it was terrible and incompetent PR.  Thats all it was.  Yet another person coming in and sticking their foot in their mouth when it comes to trying to say something about bitshares.  You interpret it as something far more than it really was.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: Tuck Fheman on February 27, 2015, 09:10:34 pm
The prowess (intentional or not) of the original PR post is now revealing itself.

.
Problem, reaction, solution! 

It's like BitShares false flag attacked itself to get a desired end result. Seems to be working, great job!

Leonard Nimoy would be proud of teh sheer genius behind this move ... oh wait.

It's a joke, get over it.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: fluxer555 on February 27, 2015, 09:48:29 pm
Too soon.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: Tuck Fheman on February 27, 2015, 10:13:21 pm
Too soon.

That's highly illogical.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: fuzzy on February 27, 2015, 10:17:54 pm
The prowess (intentional or not) of the original PR post is now revealing itself.

  • Post polarizing PR message
  • Wait for ****storm.
  • Revise PR message
  • Get what you wanted all along, now with consensus in an effort to make step 2 stop.
.
Problem, reaction, solution! 

It's like BitShares false flag attacked itself to get a desired end result. Seems to be working, great job!

Leonard Nimoy would be proud of teh sheer genius behind this move ... oh wait.

It's a joke, get over it.

We get the governance we deserve.  In the end it comes down to the question of what we think we deserve and what we are willing to fight for.

Ultimately we can't know the intentions.  And Ultimately those intentions don't matter nearly as much as how we respond to it.
I think it is a good idea to figure out what is going on in the chinese community and the only way to do that is to stop accusing and actually take this chance to clarify things.  There ample opportunity to give those who screwed up the chance to prove their intent.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: gamey on February 27, 2015, 10:21:10 pm
I was ok with letting this thread die but Tuck's post made me crack up.

It isn't about fighting, it is about doing. We need a better dilution model that directs pay and is more versatile than what we have along with a propsal/approval system.  Unfortunately there are a lot of other things that also need doing. :(
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: hpenvy2 on February 27, 2015, 10:32:16 pm
I like to know what kind of effort will raise market cap .
It is needed badly now more than ever . So , you input ?

I would start with a clear development road map.  See MaidSafe for example, http://maidsafe.net/roadmap.

It is uncertainty that shakes most investors and the market in general.  Constantly changing direction under the guise of "growing up" is just confusing.  Develop a road map and stick to it.  The other 2.0 projects have for the most part been very clear as to their goals and how they plan to get there.

That being said, as much as most here don't want to admit, so goes the market value of Bitcoin so goes the market value of other blockchain tech.  There is not a lot the Bitshares community can do to change this.  This is a long term investment, and a very risky one at that.  It's a fool's errand to try and analyze what affects the market cap on a day to day basis.

Maidsafe had the right idea with their clear roadmap for investors to monitor progress.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: Tuck Fheman on February 27, 2015, 11:05:54 pm
I was ok with letting this thread die but Tuck's post made me crack up.

(http://troll.me/images/monocle-guy/my-work-here-is-done.jpg)
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: NewMine on February 27, 2015, 11:20:57 pm

The big problem is you have a couple Chinese whales pulling strings here. Their thoughts and ideas may be right but this is the wrong way of going about it. Unfortunately they have been threatening BM that they will divest and are scaring him into their will. 

This is only the beginning of what the Chinese whales want. More to come....Don't get me wrong, I fully agree with what they want, but the inevitable results will kill Bitshares.


I think your interpretation of events is pretty absurd.  You are clearly just looking for ways to interpret things in a sinister way to FUD bitshares.


This is not some malevolent takeover attempt by chinese whales, it is simply yet more incompetence when it comes to PR by people who are involved in bitshares.

Essentially, some chinese guys are like: "Wow, those western guys are incompetent at PR!  Lets take charge of the PR situaiton".  But then they are just as incompetent and post this absurd thing without thinking it through either or running it by people.


Quote
This will go over well with the non-Bitshares cryptocurrency community.

Why are you so determined to FUD bitshares to the greater crypto community? 
Yes, everyone in bitshares is utterly worthless at PR and they give you ample opportunities to do this.  But why do you hate Bitshares so much?

Quote
It amazes me the lack of foresight involved with a decision like this.  This could've been kept private and BM's post frequency minimized, as it should be. Typing and answering forum posts is not coding.  No need to announce a man in the high castle will be editing his posts and others.

Yep, it was terrible and incompetent PR.  Thats all it was.  Yet another person coming in and sticking their foot in their mouth when it comes to trying to say something about bitshares.  You interpret it as something far more than it really was.
You have no idea what you're talking about.  The biggest foot in mouth is going to be yours.
Title: Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
Post by: fuzzy on February 28, 2015, 06:27:03 am
I was ok with letting this thread die but Tuck's post made me crack up.

(http://troll.me/images/monocle-guy/my-work-here-is-done.jpg)

Best ever.