BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: domsch on December 18, 2013, 10:37:49 am
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With the recent avalanche of bad news coming out of China there is a big question floating around: How will Chinese investors be able to purchase Protoshares/Bitshares now?
Deposits from PBOC and third-party payment processors to exchange platforms are (currently) stopped. That means no-one inside China will be able to purchase any crypto-currency any time soon.
What Protoshares/Bitshares, and most other crypto currency with distinctive advantages over Bitcoins, are missing is a clear seclusion from their "mother", Bitcoins. Especially Bitshares, which can be treated as the complete opposite of Bitcoins, should not be affected by fluctuations in the Bitcoin market. To further conclude this, weighing the value of Protoshares in Bitcoins leads to falsification and stops Protoshares to live up to its full potential.
Any ideas thoughts on both of these concerns?
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THANK YOU!!!!
I made similar comments under the topic "should we be calling it BitShares"
This thread was started just before the recent plunge.
I believe it is very necessary to separate the concept of BitShares from Bitcoin.
The recent drop in price of bitcoin has caused PTS to half in value, even though this doesn't make too much sense. and Protoshares doesn't even sound like bitcoin.
Now if we launching BitShares (which even sounds like bitcoin), we may be tethering ourselves to a sinking stone. BitShares has the potential to be a colossal mammoth of a ship, it would be a shame to see it sink because it was anchored to a sinking stone.
As for China, right now China is dominating the bitcoin market in terms of transaction volume and market share. Thus problems in china would cause a price drop causing more people in China to sell. After some time if China keeps its current strict regulations, it will loose its market share and price will be determined by other countries. In such a situation, price may go up even if China becomes more strict. This will open up a large informal market in China for bitcoins independent of Chinese regulation.
People in China can still buy bitcoins, just not through banks and exchanges.
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THANK YOU!!!!
I made similar comments under the topic "should we be calling it BitShares"
This thread was started just before the recent plunge.
I believe it is very necessary to separate the concept of BitShares from Bitcoin.
The recent drop in price of bitcoin has caused PTS to half in value, even though this doesn't make too much sense. and Protoshares doesn't even sound like bitcoin.
Now if we launching BitShares (which even sounds like bitcoin), we may be tethering ourselves to a sinking stone. BitShares has the potential to be a colossal mammoth of a ship, it would be a shame to see it sink because it was anchored to a sinking stone.
As for China, right now China is dominating the bitcoin market in terms of transaction volume and market share. Thus problems in china would cause a price drop causing more people in China to sell. After some time if China keeps its current strict regulations, it will loose its market share and price will be determined by other countries. In such a situation, price may go up even if China becomes more strict. This will open up a large informal market in China for bitcoins independent of Chinese regulation.
People in China can still buy bitcoins, just not through banks and exchanges.
We should have priced pts in dollars.
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THANK YOU!!!!
I made similar comments under the topic "should we be calling it BitShares"
This thread was started just before the recent plunge.
I believe it is very necessary to separate the concept of BitShares from Bitcoin.
The recent drop in price of bitcoin has caused PTS to half in value, even though this doesn't make too much sense. and Protoshares doesn't even sound like bitcoin.
Now if we launching BitShares (which even sounds like bitcoin), we may be tethering ourselves to a sinking stone. BitShares has the potential to be a colossal mammoth of a ship, it would be a shame to see it sink because it was anchored to a sinking stone.
As for China, right now China is dominating the bitcoin market in terms of transaction volume and market share. Thus problems in china would cause a price drop causing more people in China to sell. After some time if China keeps its current strict regulations, it will loose its market share and price will be determined by other countries. In such a situation, price may go up even if China becomes more strict. This will open up a large informal market in China for bitcoins independent of Chinese regulation.
People in China can still buy bitcoins, just not through banks and exchanges.
Every bad news concerning Bitcoins is perceived as bad news of the entire crypto currency market. Potential investors are uncertain of either participating and taking the risk, or waiting for good things to happen prior deciding about investing or not. And with the recent changes in China, both of these choices were taken away and there is only one left "NO BUYING UNTIL WE SAY". As you have said, if the Chinese gov. continues with their current stance and prohibits trading, a huge informal sector, where actual paper bills are traded for BTC, will be created.
Obviously that is not the solution and we need to find a solution to this problem. Certainly, all the major Chinese trading platforms are trying to find a solution as well - perhaps, a trading platform, strictily controlled by the Chinese gov will evolve, or perhaps the current deposit ban will be lifted and trading will continue, regulated.
But who knows. The entire future of Bitshares lays in the hands of the community, and the most important man right now is the marketing head Brian. Marketing is everything and only if he (with the help of the community) is able to change the perception of millions of people out there, convince them that BitShares is an entirely different system compared to Bitcoins, only then the entire project will succeed.
After all, this project is just like a start-up. Bitshares is entering a rather newly created market with an entirely new product. What the team has done a great job at, was focusing on their product strategy (Product Development). But their Customer Development strategy still needs to be improved. Customer and Product development are two simultaneous processes that, when combined, will lead to a successful positioning of ones product in the market. Letting a product run free in the marketing and thinking "Yeh, building a great product is everything, the buyers will come" is a blatant lie that lead to the downfall of many start-ups, even though they had a great vision and millions of dollars at their disposal.
I already offered Brian my help, since I have ties with London accelerator programs (http://www.accenture.com/), Hong Kong tech-hubs (https://www.cyberport.hk/) and accelerators (http://www.startmeup.hk/) and a few in India (GSF India, thanks to Joel). Only if the community works together and pursues the same goal of idealism and not the ones of capitalism - only then we'll be able to succeed and place a new product in the market.
Brian or David, if you want some more details or need some help, just shoot me a message.
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Wow, some exciting developments recently. I feel good things are coming!
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THANK YOU!!!!
I made similar comments under the topic "should we be calling it BitShares"
This thread was started just before the recent plunge.
I believe it is very necessary to separate the concept of BitShares from Bitcoin.
The recent drop in price of bitcoin has caused PTS to half in value, even though this doesn't make too much sense. and Protoshares doesn't even sound like bitcoin.
Now if we launching BitShares (which even sounds like bitcoin), we may be tethering ourselves to a sinking stone. BitShares has the potential to be a colossal mammoth of a ship, it would be a shame to see it sink because it was anchored to a sinking stone.
As for China, right now China is dominating the bitcoin market in terms of transaction volume and market share. Thus problems in china would cause a price drop causing more people in China to sell. After some time if China keeps its current strict regulations, it will loose its market share and price will be determined by other countries. In such a situation, price may go up even if China becomes more strict. This will open up a large informal market in China for bitcoins independent of Chinese regulation.
People in China can still buy bitcoins, just not through banks and exchanges.
Every new government restriction just increases the demand for free space options.
As the actor Clint Eastwood once said, "Go ahead, make my day!" 8)
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+1 Stan
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THANK YOU!!!!
I made similar comments under the topic "should we be calling it BitShares"
This thread was started just before the recent plunge.
I believe it is very necessary to separate the concept of BitShares from Bitcoin.
The recent drop in price of bitcoin has caused PTS to half in value, even though this doesn't make too much sense. and Protoshares doesn't even sound like bitcoin.
Now if we launching BitShares (which even sounds like bitcoin), we may be tethering ourselves to a sinking stone. BitShares has the potential to be a colossal mammoth of a ship, it would be a shame to see it sink because it was anchored to a sinking stone.
As for China, right now China is dominating the bitcoin market in terms of transaction volume and market share. Thus problems in china would cause a price drop causing more people in China to sell. After some time if China keeps its current strict regulations, it will loose its market share and price will be determined by other countries. In such a situation, price may go up even if China becomes more strict. This will open up a large informal market in China for bitcoins independent of Chinese regulation.
People in China can still buy bitcoins, just not through banks and exchanges.
Every new government restriction just increases the demand for free space options.
As the actor Clint Eastwood once said, "Go ahead, make my day!" 8)
I fully agree with you. My concerns are that people may find it hard to imagine a world with BitShares and without Bitcoin. So if bitcoin takes a dive so will BitShares.
Even though they are different services.
Gov restrictions will create demand for free market systems. In such a situation success of bitshares will be deflated by restrictions on bitcoin. Something completely avoidable and unnecessary.
BitShares is the first revolutionary innovation after bitcoin (where other services are only evolutionary). And it will service a different function, independently.
If bitcoin takes a dive, so will mastercoin. And bitshares should go up in value, this is a major advantage of BitShares over Mastercoin. I feel with the current branding and perception of BitShares, it could easily fall with bitcoin and mastercoin.
In which case I will cry myself to sleep :'( haha
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With the recent avalanche of bad news coming out of China there is a big question floating around: How will Chinese investors be able to purchase Protoshares/Bitshares now?
Deposits from PBOC and third-party payment processors to exchange platforms are (currently) stopped. That means no-one inside China will be able to purchase any crypto-currency any time soon.
What Protoshares/Bitshares, and most other crypto currency with distinctive advantages over Bitcoins, are missing is a clear seclusion from their "mother", Bitcoins. Especially Bitshares, which can be treated as the complete opposite of Bitcoins, should not be affected by fluctuations in the Bitcoin market. To further conclude this, weighing the value of Protoshares in Bitcoins leads to falsification and stops Protoshares to live up to its full potential.
Any ideas thoughts on both of these concerns?
And this is why I proposed a solution to allow people to work for shares.
Otherwise they'll never be able to get them since mining Bitshares is out and buying is out for some people.
-
THANK YOU!!!!
I made similar comments under the topic "should we be calling it BitShares"
This thread was started just before the recent plunge.
I believe it is very necessary to separate the concept of BitShares from Bitcoin.
The recent drop in price of bitcoin has caused PTS to half in value, even though this doesn't make too much sense. and Protoshares doesn't even sound like bitcoin.
Now if we launching BitShares (which even sounds like bitcoin), we may be tethering ourselves to a sinking stone. BitShares has the potential to be a colossal mammoth of a ship, it would be a shame to see it sink because it was anchored to a sinking stone.
As for China, right now China is dominating the bitcoin market in terms of transaction volume and market share. Thus problems in china would cause a price drop causing more people in China to sell. After some time if China keeps its current strict regulations, it will loose its market share and price will be determined by other countries. In such a situation, price may go up even if China becomes more strict. This will open up a large informal market in China for bitcoins independent of Chinese regulation.
People in China can still buy bitcoins, just not through banks and exchanges.
Every new government restriction just increases the demand for free space options.
As the actor Clint Eastwood once said, "Go ahead, make my day!" 8)
I fully agree with you. My concerns are that people may find it hard to imagine a world with BitShares and without Bitcoin. So if bitcoin takes a dive so will BitShares.
Even though they are different services.
Gov restrictions will create demand for free market systems. In such a situation success of bitshares will be deflated by restrictions on bitcoin. Something completely avoidable and unnecessary.
BitShares is the first revolutionary innovation after bitcoin (where other services are only evolutionary). And it will service a different function, independently.
If bitcoin takes a dive, so will mastercoin. And bitshares should go up in value, this is a major advantage of BitShares over Mastercoin. I feel with the current branding and perception of BitShares, it could easily fall with bitcoin and mastercoin.
In which case I will cry myself to sleep :'( haha
You don't understand Mastercoin. Mastercoin isn't based on Bitcoin at all. When Bitcoin takes a dive Mastercoin stays the same because no new Mastercoins are being created. The only way Mastercoin will take a dive is if people sell them and right now your wealth is more secure in Mastercoin than Bitcoin and will probably always be so by design.
Mastercoin does not require you to have Bitcoins to exchange for it because a distributed exchange is what they are building. You also have people working for Mastercoins, and contests, so for the most part it's distributed by contests, or people buying them usually on the Bitcointalk forum.
I think Bitshares isn't even out yet so we cannot say much what will happen but I hope people look at this situation with China and understand why the investment from fiat model is not sustainable. If a government blocks you off from putting fiat into the system then all you have left to offer is labor. In the short term the United States investors will be just fine and this may even seem like it's favorable to them but the Chinese investment is cut off and this could happen anywhere else too which chokes off the distribution of shares.
Please analyze this Chinese case study.
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Could someone tell me the advantages of Bitshares over Mastercoin? Are Bitshares going to use the Bitcoin block chain, like Mastercoin does?
I also have another question. It was my understanding that a Bitcoin exchange could be built as a DAC, allowing people to go between USD and BTC. This would have the advantage that the government could not shut such down, since it is not centrally controlled? Is this not the case?
Thanks,
Brent Allsop
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Could someone tell me the advantages of Bitshares over Mastercoin? Are Bitshares going to use the Bitcoin block chain, like Mastercoin does?
I also have another question. It was my understanding that a Bitcoin exchange could be built as a DAC, allowing people to go between USD and BTC. This would have the advantage that the government could not shut such down, since it is not centrally controlled? Is this not the case?
Thanks,
Brent Allsop
Mastercoin requires some other blockchain to function. One advantage was that Bitshares would have it's own blockchain and would not depend on Bitcoin infrastructure. I am not entirely certain of the future of Bitshares but I do believe it can be independent from Bitcoin and that centralization around Bitcoin is not a good thing.
Bitcoin is merely a currency and you should not centralize something as important as Bitshares or Mastercoin around any specific currency. Any currency should be able to buy Bitshares from the start because Bitshares is capable of doing it like that. That is just my opinion, I think anyone with any altcoin should be able to trade them for Bitshares. This would be one way to satisfy the people who are miners who have altcoins because they'd be able to mine the altcoins and then trade them for Bitshares even though Bitshares isn't mined.
Since Bitshares allows people to create new currencies, it is more important in my opinion than all alt currencies or Bitcoin which at this time cannot do what Bitshares can do. Bitshares will be able to create bitBTC even.
Mastercoin and Bitshares aren't really technically different in terms of capabilities or ambition at this time. They both are improving each other in a synergistic relationship rather than merely competitive. If either has a good idea the other will steal it and use it. Exodus address for example seems a lot like the Angel address. Contract for difference seems like how Bitshares does things rather than the escrow mechanism Mastercoin was planning to use.
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While it is a good idea to keep Protoshares and Bitshares independent from Bitcoin, it is madness to say Bitcoin is a sinking stone. It is not. Forget the silly factor of 2 fluctuations up and down, what counts is the overall exponential trend so evident in the historical Bitcoin data.
We want Bitcoin to be successful it is the flagship cryptocurrencies so we should wish it well.
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While it is a good idea to keep Protoshares and Bitshares independent from Bitcoin, it is madness to say Bitcoin is a sinking stone. It is not. Forget the silly factor of 2 fluctuations up and down, what counts is the overall exponential trend so evident in the historical Bitcoin data.
We want Bitcoin to be successful it is the flagship cryptocurrencies so we should wish it well.
Bitcoin should do well but if it becomes irreplaceable or too big to fail then we are right back where we started. I think we are a long way off before Bitcoin fails and it will rise in price to $50,000-100,000 in 2014. I don't think it will stop there either, we could see bubbles where it goes up to $300,000+ in 2015-2016 when the block reward halving takes place.
What I meant by independence is we don't want the rise of Bitshare price to only be because of the rise of Bitcoin price. Bitshares also should try to be independent from fiat if we are supposed to determine the true price of the bitUSD making Bitshares the unit of measure.
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While it is a good idea to keep Protoshares and Bitshares independent from Bitcoin, it is madness to say Bitcoin is a sinking stone. It is not. Forget the silly factor of 2 fluctuations up and down, what counts is the overall exponential trend so evident in the historical Bitcoin data.
We want Bitcoin to be successful it is the flagship cryptocurrencies so we should wish it well.
Calm down buddy :) I dont think bitcoin is going anywhere.
I am just trying to illustrate that it may be advantageous for bitshares to be viewed independently from bitcoin... because it is.
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Bitshares requires some established blockchain to ride on top of, correct?
Even if Bitcoin aproaches a near worthless value, and the trading valume also drops similarely, it will still work to have Bitshares ride on top of it, right?
And also, how hard would it be, if Bitshares started up, and ran on the Bitcoin block chain, for a while, how hard would it be to switch this to some other block chain that was out competing Bitcoin?
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Bitshares requires some established blockchain to ride on top of, correct?
Even if Bitcoin aproaches a near worthless value, and the trading valume also drops similarely, it will still work to have Bitshares ride on top of it, right?
And also, how hard would it be, if Bitshares started up, and ran on the Bitcoin block chain, for a while, how hard would it be to switch this to some other block chain that was out competing Bitcoin?
No, the BitShares family of DACs will all have their own blockchains completely independent of Bitcoin (as will all other DACs we have planned.)
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Do not worry about China market. We can still buy PTS. I am a PTS fan, can't stand waiting for BTS launch. One Chinese website FYI.
www.btc38.com
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Do not worry about China market. We can still buy PTS. I am a PTS fan, can't stand waiting for BTS launch. One Chinese website FYI.
www.btc38.com
I just saw an interesting post made on Reddit about someone stating that they can still deposit money to BTC38 and buy coins (in this case, Litecoins). Check it out: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1t8j7c/proof_that_btc38_takes_cny_for_btcltcxrp_etc/
What is sure though is that the ban on deposits to Bitcoin exchanges is just temporary.
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What is sure though is that the ban on deposits to Bitcoin exchanges is just temporary.
Really? I thought it was a permanent block starting from Jan 31st. Whether or not it will be revised late, i guess is uncertain.
Where did you find out that it might be a temporary block (or is this speculation)? I would want to know so that I may set up trades accordingly.
Thanks!
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What is sure though is that the ban on deposits to Bitcoin exchanges is just temporary.
Really? I thought it was a permanent block starting from Jan 31st. Whether or not it will be revised late, i guess is uncertain.
Where did you find out that it might be a temporary block (or is this speculation)? I would want to know so that I may set up trades accordingly.
Thanks!
This is just pure speculation.
The gov. did not officially ban the coin - even though they had the chance to do so. They much rather just initially regulated it, and then put a temporary "stop" on the trading through the deposit ban. In my opinion, this is just temporary and once the Chinese gov. knows exactly how to treat Bitcoins (articulate its advantages/disadvantages) - then they will allow trading again, maybe in the same way as beforehand , or maybe in a more stricter and controlled manner.
Who knows, right now we can just guess what will happen within the next few months. The Indian market is also where a lot of traction can be caught - but maybe that bubble will also burst once the Indian gov. will intervene, the same way they did with Gold trading.