BitShares Forum

Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: alt on March 15, 2015, 12:28:11 am

Title: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: alt on March 15, 2015, 12:28:11 am
disable expired cover order to deal with all bid order or short order which price is less than feed price.
or attack will not stop
nobody dare to short new BITUSD
and the BITUSD's price can not back to normal

please fixed it as soon as posible

everyone who have a  cover order,
please short USD to yourself, and cover it before it's expired. or your cover order will be attack, and you will lost 10%
Title: Re: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: alt on March 15, 2015, 12:32:08 am
I hope the new version protect all automatic execute cover order, include expired order and margin call order.
don't sell the collection BTS  at price less than feed price
Title: Re: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: starspirit on March 15, 2015, 12:35:39 am
nobody dare to short new BITUSD
why not?
Title: Re: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: CLains on March 15, 2015, 12:36:58 am
Thanks for the info alt! I hope they fix this soon.
Title: Re: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: alt on March 15, 2015, 12:44:44 am
everyone who have a  cover order,
please short USD to yourself, and cover it before it's expired. or your cover order will be attack, and you will lost 10%
how to short USD to yourself?

first you need to make an ask order, and make sure you are ask1. now , ask1 price is 0.0088, so you can make an ask order at price 0.0087.
and at the same time you should make an short order
if you have  100 USD debt, you need sell 100/0.0087=11495 BTS, or more if you need to pay for interest.
Code: [Select]
wallet_market_submit_ask your_account 11495 BTS 0.0087 USD
short order
Code: [Select]
wallet_market_submit_short  your_account  22990 BTS 0 USD 0.0087
you will get 100 USD.
Title: Re: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: alt on March 15, 2015, 12:51:52 am
nobody dare to short new BITUSD
why not?
they worried about can't buy back these USD at normal price.
now the feed price is 0.009 USD/BTS, but the buy1 price is only 0.0084 USD/BTS,and the volume is only 5.6 USD.
maybe you need to buy BITUSD at price 1.05 USD/BITUSD these days.
Title: Re: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: zerosum on March 15, 2015, 01:31:46 am
This is indeed disgusting...

For days the system is allowing stealing from expired shorts...and nobody cares...

Hell nobody mentions it....

And if you do not at all care for anything else (as in not caring for 'people losing money due to bugs and the system  not acting as described')
don't you at least see the total lack of market around the feed price??? Is sort by 'a' then sort by 'b' the most impossible thing in this system?


Title: Re: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: starspirit on March 15, 2015, 01:45:59 am
nobody dare to short new BITUSD
why not?
they worried about can't buy back these USD at normal price.
now the feed price is 0.009 USD/BTS, but the buy1 price is only 0.0084 USD/BTS,and the volume is only 5.6 USD.
maybe you need to buy BITUSD at price 1.05 USD/BITUSD these days.

As far as I can tell, there is no mechanism to prevent the expensiveness of bitUSD on the BitShares exchange from persisting indefinitely. This is due to the asymmetry between longs and shorts in the functioning of BitAssets - shorts are forced to expire and cover, but longs never are. This creates uncertainty on the short side, and reduces overall liquidity. In theory it would be possible at least for a holder of bitUSD to sell on the internal exchange, and switch their BTS back for bitUSD on an external exchange. That was previously difficult enough given high spreads, but now with the lack of a viable external exchange (BTER), this problem is further exacerbated, and we are reliant on where bitUSD holders decide the premium is sufficient to incentivise their sale.

I've recently suggested more symmetric systems between longs and shorts that might allow stronger pegging and 2-way arbitrage. These are alternatives to BitAssets, not simple changes. Maybe they're infeasible ideas (pending replies), I'm just seeing an issue and helping to try resolve it.

Somebody on this forum told me that expired shorts are prevented from paying more than some fixed premium over the feed price (10%?), though I've only seen it mentioned once. Is that true, or was I misadvised? If not, I suggest shorts need to be cautious in the absence of a viable and liquid external exchange.
Title: Re: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: Riverhead on March 15, 2015, 03:59:35 am

bitUSD is available on Yunbi, Metaexchange.info, and Shapeshift. There is enough volume to cover the shorts expiring in the next couple days but beyond that the market makers need to step up their game :).
Title: Re: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: arhag on March 15, 2015, 05:02:56 am
I hope the new version protect all automatic execute cover order, include expired order and margin call order.
don't sell the collection BTS  at price less than feed price

I'm not sure if the current implementation of the code as of v0.6.2 has the expired cover order set a price limit at the feed price as it is supposed to (I thought the recent expired short not buying up BitUSD sell orders at a BitUSD/BTS price below the feed price showed that it in fact does do this?), but the margin call cover order is supposed to have a price limit that is 10% lower than the BitAsset/BTS feed price. Why do you want margin call cover orders to get the benefit of being limited only to the feed price? With the 5% margin call fee gone that would mean there would be no disadvantage at all to letting a short get margin called (meaning no motivation to add collateral to a short position to prevent margin calls).
Title: Re: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: abit on March 15, 2015, 06:42:29 am
This is indeed disgusting...

For days the system is allowing stealing from expired shorts...and nobody cares...

Hell nobody mentions it....
There do have some people care, for example alt, which is trying to protect the shorts, the peg, the system.
Hope the paid delegates are doing something right as well.
Title: Re: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: xeroc on March 15, 2015, 06:51:35 am
Paging @toast @vikram @bytemaster @pc
Title: Re: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: btswildpig on March 15, 2015, 07:20:06 am
Paging @toast @vikram @bytemaster @pc

paging @btswildpig

just for test if this paging thing really works
Title: Re: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: abit on March 15, 2015, 07:28:16 am
I think @theoretical is working on the market engine.
Title: Re: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: fundomatic on March 15, 2015, 08:06:48 am
...
please short USD to yourself, and cover it before it's expired. or your cover order will be attack, and you will lost 10%

Thanks for bringing that up.

I was wondering why the collateral for my expired shorts was sold for 10% less the feedprice.
I was further confused by the fact that there were bids to buy BTS (sell/short BitUSD) at a higher price but my shorts were not covered at those prices.

How does the current implement works? If no BitUSD available at the feedprice, it goes straight to (feedprice - 10%) and ignores anything in between?
Title: Re: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: pc on March 15, 2015, 08:43:22 am

How does the current implement works? If no BitUSD available at the feedprice, it goes straight to (feedprice - 10%) and ignores anything in between?

The current implementation prefers shorts over bids below the feed price. It also prefers shorts with a higher interest rate over those with a lower interest rate. So if there is no bid above the feed price and the short with the highest interest rate is between feed price and 0.9*feed it will be used for the cover. This is more or less the documented market behaviour.

The market logic has been subject of discussion (and several github issues) for several weeks now, and a new market engine is being worked on.
Title: Re: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: mf-tzo on March 15, 2015, 08:56:49 am
This is indeed disgusting...

For days the system is allowing stealing from expired shorts...and nobody cares...

Hell nobody mentions it....
There do have some people care, for example alt, which is trying to protect the shorts, the peg, the system.
Hope the paid delegates are doing something right as well.

It's a matter of time before alt and anybody else stops carrying if a good development doesn't happen anytime soon..We have lost Agent86 and many others already..Devs don't post very often anymore, BM refrains from posting anymore, Stan's inspirational posts are not very frequent anymore...Secret deals, development that most of us have no idea what the devs are doing and if they are doing anything behind the scenes...volume is getting lower and lower...Chinese dumped their BTS on our face with the whole amazing idea of 1 superDac.. Overall BTS looks exactly as I have imagined it...lol...
Title: Re: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: btswildpig on March 15, 2015, 09:29:25 am
This is indeed disgusting...

For days the system is allowing stealing from expired shorts...and nobody cares...

Hell nobody mentions it.... .
There do have some people care, for example alt, which is trying to protect the shorts, the peg, the system.
Hope the paid delegates are doing something right as well.

It's a matter of time before alt and anybody else stops carrying if a good development doesn't happen anytime soon..We have lost Agent86 and many others already..Devs don't post very often anymore, BM refrains from posting anymore, Stan's inspirational posts are not very frequent anymore...Secret deals, development that most of us have no idea what the devs are doing and if they are doing anything behind the scenes...volume is getting lower and lower...Chinese dumped their BTS on our face with the whole amazing idea of 1 superDac.. Overall BTS looks exactly as I have imagined it...lol...

devs don't post as often but they code more than often ....
several major issues have been working in Github , also performance and security feature are working too ....
look at the bright side , they're pleasing all the users by actually doing development work instead of constantly telling several people on the forum that they're doing "big things" and got some cheers and in the end users still complaining ......

0.7.0 is a big milestone for tons of new features , especially with the user issue asset function .

Development progress are there on Github .... it's just a matter of constantly telling people on the forum or not .

by the way , BM actually posted the above information days ago on the forum . Guess to those who are not reading the forum every second with every thread and every replies  , those kind of interaction is none-exist .

Also the webwallet just get major upgraded with easy backup and restore feature for the brain key ...

Overall , I think the developers need more focus to talk to people who actually knows about the system , the market engine than random people on the forum just for curiosity's sake . This issue that Alt mentioned existed long before when they were actively talking to random people on the forum , discussing future and random ideas  ... Sadly all that "active" discussion never bring this one up .
Title: Re: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: starspirit on March 15, 2015, 11:41:24 am
This is indeed disgusting...

For days the system is allowing stealing from expired shorts...and nobody cares...

Hell nobody mentions it.... .
There do have some people care, for example alt, which is trying to protect the shorts, the peg, the system.
Hope the paid delegates are doing something right as well.

It's a matter of time before alt and anybody else stops carrying if a good development doesn't happen anytime soon..We have lost Agent86 and many others already..Devs don't post very often anymore, BM refrains from posting anymore, Stan's inspirational posts are not very frequent anymore...Secret deals, development that most of us have no idea what the devs are doing and if they are doing anything behind the scenes...volume is getting lower and lower...Chinese dumped their BTS on our face with the whole amazing idea of 1 superDac.. Overall BTS looks exactly as I have imagined it...lol...

devs don't post as often but they code more than often ....
several major issues have been working in Github , also performance and security feature are working too ....
look at the bright side , they're pleasing all the users by actually doing development work instead of constantly telling several people on the forum that they're doing "big things" and got some cheers and in the end users still complaining ......

0.7.0 is a big milestone for tons of new features , especially with the user issue asset function .

Development progress are there on Github .... it's just a matter of constantly telling people on the forum or not .

by the way , BM actually posted the above information days ago on the forum . Guess to those who are not reading the forum every second with every thread and every replies  , those kind of interaction is none-exist .

Also the webwallet just get major upgraded with easy backup and restore feature for the brain key ...

Overall , I think the developers need more focus to talk to people who actually knows about the system , the market engine than random people on the forum just for curiosity's sake . This issue that Alt mentioned existed long before when they were actively talking to random people on the forum , discussing future and random ideas  ... Sadly all that "active" discussion never bring this one up .
Leaders still need to walk among their community, share the vision, and build on ideas. There are thousands in the community who are backing this project, and they don't all read github. I understand why the pendulum has swung, but maybe there's room for a middle ground.
Title: Re: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: bytemaster on March 15, 2015, 01:34:29 pm
I still follow the forum and still post.   

We have not lost Agent86, he is actually in the BTS office in blacksburg most weeks. 

There will be a release soon that will address some market issues.
Title: Re: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: vlight on March 15, 2015, 01:45:22 pm
How can someone push the price to 200 BTS/BitUSD ?  :o
Title: Re: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: alt on March 15, 2015, 01:51:22 pm
I still follow the forum and still post.   

We have not lost Agent86, he is actually in the BTS office in blacksburg most weeks. 

There will be a release soon that will address some market issues.
I'm always with you

来自我的 HUAWEI P7-L00 上的 Tapatalk

Title: Re: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: zerosum on March 15, 2015, 02:18:10 pm
How can someone push the price to 200 BTS/BitUSD ?  :o

by the way , BM actually posted the above information days ago on the forum .

Enjoy!  :)




To be totally honest I do not know how. My guess is somehow using 18446.744074% interest rate.
Title: Re: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: btswildpig on March 15, 2015, 02:25:01 pm
How can someone push the price to 200 BTS/BitUSD ?  :o

by the way , BM actually posted the above information days ago on the forum .

Enjoy!  :)




To be totally honest I do not know how. My guess is somehow using 18446.744074% interest rate.

18446.744074% interest rate orders looks like someone I know trying to fight the bad guy's robot ....with small and high interest rate shorts .
Title: Re: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: pc on March 15, 2015, 04:12:33 pm
How can someone push the price to 200 BTS/BitUSD ?  :o
https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares/issues/1277#issuecomment-79893500
Title: Re: please release a emergency version to protect expired cover order
Post by: roadscape on March 15, 2015, 09:21:06 pm
Is this why my margin orders were settled at around 0.0078 USD/BTS 12 hours ago?

I had the BitUSD to cover.. but I was away from the computer and thought I'd have time because the market was quite off from the feed.

So it appears I lost around 10% of my collateral to this? Or 20% considering I didn't use the BitUSD I had..