BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on June 20, 2015, 01:08:51 pm
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The term whale is used a lot in these parts... curious though.
What is your definition of a BitShares whale?
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Some one with 0.5% of shares or more
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Anybody who owns more than 1% of the current supply.
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Should the definition of whale be linked to the marketcap? ... 0.01% at 100billion$ is .. well .. not pocket money :)
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Some one with 0.5% of shares or more
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current upply of 2.5B or the max supply of 3.7B ?
anyway definition of a whale is relative i guess ;)
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Should the definition of whale be linked to the marketcap? ... 0.01% at 100billion$ is .. well .. not pocket money :)
Haha! 100G$?!
I don't even dream about it. I'll be there till the end, but I don't expect to become a millionaire because of my small investment in Bitshares.
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Just wanted to make a point .. bts was at 70m and 200m are definitely within reach in few months (imho) (not an investment advice)
Hence you would have a nice position with 0.01% already (depending on the definition of "nice")
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Just wanted to make a point .. bts was at 70m and 200m are definitely within reach in few months (imho) (not an investment advice)
Hence you would have a nice position with 0.01% already (depending on the definition of "nice")
Makes sense!
I'd like to add another definition to "whale". I believe term "whale" should be related to the capacity of an individual or entity to move the market price significantly if he/she/it decides to liquidate their position. So it all depends on the liquidity of the market, the % of shares the whale owns and the market cap.
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I'm just hoping one day bts surpasses bitcoins all time high of approximately 12 billion market cap. Anyone think that is feasible in the next few years? I look forward to that day so I can finally walk out of my day job and not have to go back the next morning...
Anyway I think a whale should be classified by having the ability to move price say 5-10% on liquidation
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Just wanted to make a point .. bts was at 70m and 200m are definitely within reach in few months (imho) (not an investment advice)
Hence you would have a nice position with 0.01% already (depending on the definition of "nice")
Makes sense!
I'd like to add another definition to "whale". I believe term "whale" should be related to the capacity of an individual or entity to move the market price significantly if he/she/it decides to liquidate their position. So it all depends on the liquidity of the market, the % of shares the whale owns and the market cap.
This .. makes even more sense .. thanks
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I'm just hoping one day bts surpasses bitcoins all time high of approximately 12 billion market cap. Anyone think that is feasible in the next few years? I look forward to that day so I can finally walk out of my day job and not have to go back the next morning...
Anyway I think a whale should be classified by having the ability to move price say 5-10% on liquidation
It's not feasible.. its inevitable.
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What is your definition of a BitShares whale?
Cryptonomex and BTC38
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Just wanted to make a point .. bts was at 70m and 200m are definitely within reach in few months (imho) (not an investment advice)
Hence you would have a nice position with 0.01% already (depending on the definition of "nice")
Makes sense!
I'd like to add another definition to "whale". I believe term "whale" should be related to the capacity of an individual or entity to move the market price significantly if he/she/it decides to liquidate their position. So it all depends on the liquidity of the market, the % of shares the whale owns and the market cap.
So by this definition how many 'whales' does BitShares REALLY have?
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So by this definition how many 'whales' does BitShares REALLY have?
I guess it's hard to get a clear cut number, having a few variables to account for in the evaluation. Using the definition I just came up with a few minutes ago, using market liquidity adds a lot of volatility in the total number of whales Bitshares has at any one time, so in the end to simplify things it could all boil down to the % of shares owned and market value.
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Just tell me the number of whales you want ?
From there it is easy (relatively).
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What is your definition of a BitShares whale?
Cryptonomex and BTC38
They do have a lot. Do you think if BTC38 got goxed it would whip out pretty much most of the Chinese investment community?
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Just tell me the number of whales you want ?
From there it is easy (relatively).
I just like to see if we can get a definition that works so that everytime someone says 'whale' we all are on the same page about what's being said.
It's such a relative term, it would be nice if we had some guidelines on deciding who is a whale.
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Hopefully someday we can get really really profitable and actually get back down to 2 bil shares. Then I'll have 0.01% and be a "whale" (at least in xeroc's eyes). :D
I'm just hoping one day bts surpasses bitcoins all time high of approximately 12 billion market cap. Anyone think that is feasible in the next few years? I look forward to that day so I can finally walk out of my day job and not have to go back the next morning...
Anyway I think a whale should be classified by having the ability to move price say 5-10% on liquidation
It's not feasible.. its inevitable.
12 bil would make me a millionaire. If it's "inevitable" I might as well quit my job now and wait for that BTS paycheck to come in the mail. :P
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Hopefully someday we can get really really profitable and actually get back down to 2 bil shares. Then I'll have 0.01% and be a "whale" (at least in xeroc's eyes). :D
I'm just hoping one day bts surpasses bitcoins all time high of approximately 12 billion market cap. Anyone think that is feasible in the next few years? I look forward to that day so I can finally walk out of my day job and not have to go back the next morning...
Anyway I think a whale should be classified by having the ability to move price say 5-10% on liquidation
It's not feasible.. its inevitable.
12 bil would make me a millionaire. If it's "inevitable" I might as well quit my job now and wait for that BTS paycheck to come in the mail. :P
There are millionaire secretaries today who worked at Microsoft back in the 80s. :)
Stranger things have happened.
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I think a whale is someone that has 10x the amount of shares than the avarage stakeholder has
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Just wanted to make a point .. bts was at 70m and 200m are definitely within reach in few months (imho) (not an investment advice)
Hence you would have a nice position with 0.01% already (depending on the definition of "nice")
Makes sense!
I'd like to add another definition to "whale". I believe term "whale" should be related to the capacity of an individual or entity to move the market price significantly if he/she/it decides to liquidate their position. So it all depends on the liquidity of the market, the % of shares the whale owns and the market cap.
This .. makes even more sense .. thanks
agreed...whale is relative in terms of ability to move prices with their trades. it's like in economics for when you assume a fully competitive market is one in which everyone is a price taker (your action can't move prices, you just take the market price as given); a whale would be a trader not subject to the same price assumption.
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What is your definition of a BitShares whale?
Cryptonomex and BTC38
They do have a lot. Do you think if BTC38 got goxed it would whip out pretty much most of the Chinese investment community?
If we could isolate/remove most of the BTC38 stake in such an event it would probably end up being a good advert for a decentralised exchange & might end up being neutral. A bigger issue would be if they tried to influence voting but they've been pretty good so far.
Cryptonomex though would be like us (BTS) owning a much smaller but controlling stake in NXT. Good luck to NXT in that scenario ;D
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I'm just hoping one day bts surpasses bitcoins all time high of approximately 12 billion market cap. Anyone think that is feasible in the next few years? I look forward to that day so I can finally walk out of my day job and not have to go back the next morning...
Anyway I think a whale should be classified by having the ability to move price say 5-10% on liquidation
It's not feasible.. its inevitable.
Just loving that kind of thoughts.... :D
But to be serious, I agree on the fact that being a "whale" is having the power to make the share value to either increase or decrease. The market cap being linked to the price of the share it has not a lot to do with it, but just the %age of shares owned.
My guess is that 0.1% of the share is kind of a small number to make significant changes in overall share price.
Whales IMO would rather be in $ injected in or out of the system.
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A whale is whoever buys enough to get us to break .053 CNY. :D
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Just wanted to make a point .. bts was at 70m and 200m are definitely within reach in few months (imho) (not an investment advice)
Hence you would have a nice position with 0.01% already (depending on the definition of "nice")
My definition of "nice" exceeds 0.01%, since 0.01% of a 200m marketcap is only $20,000. Now if you remove the percent sign, that is a nICE COOL $2,000,000.00
Seriously tho, I wouldn't scoff at $20,000, but that's not exactly how I'd define a whale.
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Below are my best guess/predictions based on all the info I can get my hands on:
# people; #BTS owned(range)
1 - 400-200 Million
2.4 - 200-50 Million
9.25 - 50-15 Million
37.5 - 15-1 Million
1* Treat those as what they are -predictions/estimates. There is no guarantee that I can provide that there is a person with more than 200 mil BTS, or that there are not 3 of them with more....
2* I do not have my own 'whale' level. As far as 'able to move the price' criteria, I personally do not find it very useful - It is possible to move the market 10% with less than a million BTS at certain times.
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When a whale buys and sells, he has to do it a bit at a time over many days, or it has a huge effect on the price.
Yeah, some of us could drive it up or down 10% with a million buy or sell, but it would go right back to where it was afterward, and we would be left looking silly having paid a 5-10% premium. Look at all the times recently it has spiked one way or the other and then come most of the way back right away. The real whale buys or sells 1M over and over again over the course of days, and causes an uptrend or downtrend.
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1 - 400-200 Million
2.4 - 200-50 Million
9.25 - 50-15 Million
37.5 - 15-1 Million
Interesting, where are you getting these numbers?
And who are these fractional people who own BTS? :)
I guess I'm one of the 37 and a half people on your list.
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1 - 400-200 Million
2.4 - 200-50 Million
9.25 - 50-15 Million
37.5 - 15-1 Million
Interesting, where are you getting these numbers?
And who are these fractional people who own BTS? :)
I guess I'm one of the 37 and a half people on your list.
Good.... you are supposed to be one of those those 37.... and 1/2 people.
As for half and fractional people - feel free to round them to your liking... The numbers are what I got...interpret them as you wish.
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Does btc38 count as one big 200M+ holder on your list, or does it count as some whales, and miniwhales, and a bunch of smaller holders?
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# people; #BTS owned(range)
1 - 400-200 Million
2.4 - 200-50 Million
9.25 - 50-15 Million
37.5 - 15-1 Million
Not sure what you are basing that on but that last category seems incredibly suspect. http://richlist.btsgame.org/
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Maybe Overstock - who has met with the BitShares Brass - is one of the whales...
http://www.coindesk.com/overstock-reports-over-100k-in-bitcoin-losses-for-q1-2015/
Speaking to CoinDesk, Overstock cryptocurrency group general manager Judd Bagley indicated that the loss was primarily the result of declines in certain altcoin markets in which the company has invested.
"The swing in the value of our cryptocurrency holdings is attributable to the sale of some of our non-bitcoin cryptocurrencies, the use of some of our bitcoin to pay for services including our membership in the Chamber of Digital Commerce, and changes in the market," he said.
He went on to clarify that the company "holds more than just bitcoin", but did not clarify which digital currencies Overstock has invested in.
Bagley stated that, in its quarterly filing, the holdings are considered a part of the same asset class.
"We’ve invested in other cryptocurrencies over time, and for the purposes of the SEC filing, we lump them all together," he continued.
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Maybe Overstock - who has met with the BitShares Brass - is one of the whales...
Maybe BitShares is the "altcoin" that lost them $100K? (http://i.imgur.com/Vf2BQVQ.jpg) ;)
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Pretty likely.
Given that they own several altcoins, I'd say the #1 is probably counterparty, they probably bought it up before they announced, and #2 is probably bitshares, which they also couldve bought up while they were meeting with the devs.
I wonder if they were dumping during the big decline. Hmm...
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Pretty likely.
Right, it would make the most sense (I think).
What other "altcoin" would Overstock invest in that they could have lost that much on during that time?
What is your definition of a BitShares whale?
Anyone with more BitShares than me.
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What is your definition of a BitShares whale?
Anyone with more BitShares than me.
I wonder if I'm a whale then. How many do you have? :P
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I wonder if I'm a whale then. How many do you have? :P
You're a whale in my book Ander, even if I have more BTS than you. ;)
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I think the real whales buy and sell millions at a time on btc38 and push it up and down.
I think it would be pretty interesting if actually it was overstock selling that caused our downtrend, when we were all blaming 'dilution' and 'pts vesting shares' and 'chinese whales' and so on.
You never really know whats going on behind the scenes in markets unless you are REALLY the whale, I guess.
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I think the real whales buy and sell millions at a time on btc38 and push it up and down.
I think it would be pretty interesting if actually it was overstock selling that caused our downtrend, when we were all blaming 'dilution' and 'pts vesting shares' and 'chinese whales' and so on.
You never really know whats going on behind the scenes in markets unless you are REALLY the whale, I guess.
It's probably just one trader at goldman :)