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Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: tonyk on August 05, 2015, 07:04:06 pm

Title: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: tonyk on August 05, 2015, 07:04:06 pm
BTS has not produced any results till October of last year. Yet its price is surprisingly stable…. Did you remember that the devs  stopped working on it (BTS 0.x.x) and started producing the next big thing with 0.001 blocks/sec time somewhere during the winter (north hemisphere winter of ’15, that is!)

Anyway, sometimes this summer the main team did came (like 2 mo. ago) with big news/promises. – 90% ready code…blazing fast, cute new floating percent signatures, affiliate program etc. etc. ( And by the way I am the winner of that thread – it was indeed great promises and nothing at the moment…but I am drifting to a thread that nobody read then or remembers now).
So, instead of working on those new great things the intellectual leader of “dream big deliver nothing” decided to not work on those great new things (90% ready, mind you) but count its followers/ass-lickers, depending on your take.

ANY way – I was a big (and still am ) …and I mean BIG fan of those brownies/brownnose stuff – so big that for the first time I sold all…and by all, I mean 100% of my BTS… (other stupied moves has made me, with my fan-boy heart, sell up to 30-35% at times)

What I am complaining about  is …well hard to grasp by most of the remaining on this (once great) forum… but by now those stupid BTS should have fallen by more than 50% in CNY terms ( aren’t they BM?) (alternatively BM should have come back to his senses)…but this were the good old days, I guess and I should have been able to make my 100% gain by now.

/End rant

PS
My sincere apologies to all summer-new (or otherwise) BTS partners… this of course includes all ‘volume-less exchanges’ and partners just  ‘14 delegates short’ with their 7 delegates to meet funding goals.
 
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: brownie.pts on August 05, 2015, 07:12:41 pm
I think you need a HUG.
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: Riverhead on August 05, 2015, 07:27:38 pm

As someone who has also lived through all the trials and tribulations since November 2013 I feel your pain. However from a purely investment perspective the only reason to sell 100% is because you believe something else is going to grow faster than BTS in a given time period. Otherwise selling at the current bottom doesn't make sense other than emotionally.

So the question is: Where to?

Every 2.0 project seems to be in the "Coming Soon" state. Some get more press than others and/or have better web sites but I still haven't seen any break into the mainstream.

Until then I'll just be holding.
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: tonyk on August 05, 2015, 07:28:27 pm
I think you need a HUG.

I am  waist high in shit (somewhat brownie stuff) as it is. So, thanks but no.
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: topcandle on August 05, 2015, 08:36:41 pm
TonyK is selling.  Trend reversal is spotted.  I believe he bought all the way down.  Are you sure you are not selling on the way up? 

j/k it might actually be a great move.  You have only yourself to deal with the varying degrees of risk. 
Title: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: brownie.pts on August 05, 2015, 08:38:57 pm
I think you need a HUG.

I am  waist high in shit (somewhat brownie stuff) as it is. So, thanks but no.

I didn't necessarily mean from me, TK. I'm an arbitrary social currency, not a person. Just look at my avatar - I barely have one arm. Anyways...hang in there. HUGS!
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on August 05, 2015, 08:47:52 pm
I think you need a HUG.

I am  waist high in shit (somewhat brownie stuff) as it is. So, thanks but no.

I didn't mean from me, TK. I'm an arbitrary social currency, not a person. Just look at my avatar - I barely have one arm. Anyways...hang in there. HUGS!

Yes Please.
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: CLains on August 05, 2015, 08:56:06 pm
New bubbles, economic meltdown, give it some time.. 

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2nFtUvXAThI/TtwOg2uEYFI/AAAAAAAAAJ8/E10MB5QN54w/s1600/growth2007.png)

(http://business-technology.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Facebook-popularity-graph-wikipedia.png)
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: Tuck Fheman on August 05, 2015, 09:12:05 pm
I didn't mean from me, TK. I'm an arbitrary social currency, not a person. Just look at my avatar - I barely have one arm. Anyways...hang in there. HUGS!

I need some clarification, does a one arm grasp actually qualify as a hug?

I mean, I've read all the Cosmo articles on hugging and I seem to remember something about one arm hugs being a sign of trouble in the relationship (Disclaimer : depending upon where it originates).
 :P
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: Ben Mason on August 05, 2015, 09:23:25 pm
You are so right tonyk, everyone remaining on this forum is a blind fool. Thank you so much for your insight. If you've lost patience.....well then, clearly that's it. Everyone else is just a brown-nose.

Hold on, actually it seems only that the wheat remains and the chaff is blowing in the wind.

When did patience and stoicism become such rare qualities?
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: sumantso on August 05, 2015, 09:24:16 pm
Otherwise selling at the current bottom doesn't make sense other than emotionally.

I am having to sell as I can't get the wallet running and don't want to leave them on the exchange anymore.

Philosophical reasons are also playing a small part. I held all the way down even though at that time (see my posts) I started thinking that the  BTS project in its (then) current avatar was doomed. Now I am concerned about various issues and questioning the motivations and so no longer have that philosophical reason to hold.

As far as investment goes, I am not struggling to put food on the table so not that bothered.
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: chryspano on August 05, 2015, 09:27:52 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/R1PsIIw.gif)
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: sschechter on August 05, 2015, 09:50:52 pm
I didn't mean from me, TK. I'm an arbitrary social currency, not a person. Just look at my avatar - I barely have one arm. Anyways...hang in there. HUGS!

I need some clarification, does a one arm grasp actually qualify as a hug?

I mean, I've read all the Cosmo articles on hugging and I seem to remember something about one arm hugs being a sign of trouble in the relationship (Disclaimer : depending upon where it originates).
 :P

Actually, you don't need any arms to hug

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3178095/Touching-moment-armless-three-year-old-girl-meets-hugs-pilot-condition.html
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: BitEnthusiast on August 05, 2015, 10:14:46 pm
The only thing I regret is not having money to buy more BTS at this price. Right now I'm broke as shit because I have no job right now, but I'm going to be patient and see what the future beholds for Bitshares.
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: JA on August 05, 2015, 10:16:20 pm
The only thing I regret is not having money to buy more BTS at this price. Right now I'm broke as shit because I have no job right now, but I'm going to be patient and see what the future beholds for Bitshares.
lmao
Are you me?
 :P
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: BitEnthusiast on August 05, 2015, 10:19:09 pm
The only thing I regret is not having money to buy more BTS at this price. Right now I'm broke as shit because I have no job right now, but I'm going to be patient and see what the future beholds for Bitshares.
lmao
Are you me?
 :P


Yes.
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: lil_jay890 on August 05, 2015, 10:53:53 pm
The only thing I regret is being short bitusd, bitcny, and biteur over the last month
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: Ander on August 05, 2015, 11:04:42 pm
The only thing I regret is being short bitusd, bitcny, and biteur over the last month

Yeah I am really glad I didnt do that.
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: 天籁 on August 06, 2015, 01:13:30 am
BTS has not produced any results till October of last year. Yet its price is surprisingly stable…. Did you remember that the devs  stopped working on it (BTS 0.x.x) and started producing the next big thing with 0.001 blocks/sec time somewhere during the winter (north hemisphere winter of ’15, that is!)

Anyway, sometimes this summer the main team did came (like 2 mo. ago) with big news/promises. – 90% ready code…blazing fast, cute new floating percent signatures, affiliate program etc. etc. ( And by the way I am the winner of that thread – it was indeed great promises and nothing at the moment…but I am drifting to a thread that nobody read then or remembers now).
So, instead of working on those new great things the intellectual leader of “dream big deliver nothing” decided to not work on those great new things (90% ready, mind you) but count its followers/ass-lickers, depending on your take.

ANY way – I was a big (and still am ) …and I mean BIG fan of those brownies/brownnose stuff – so big that for the first time I sold all…and by all, I mean 100% of my BTS… (other stupied moves has made me, with my fan-boy heart, sell up to 30-35% at times)

What I am complaining about  is …well hard to grasp by most of the remaining on this (once great) forum… but by now those stupid BTS should have fallen by more than 50% in CNY terms ( aren’t they BM?) (alternatively BM should have come back to his senses)…but this were the good old days, I guess and I should have been able to make my 100% gain by now.

/End rant

PS
My sincere apologies to all summer-new (or otherwise) BTS partners… this of course includes all ‘volume-less exchanges’ and partners just  ‘14 delegates short’ with their 7 delegates to meet funding goals.
@stan @BM: 300% collateral rate makes BitAsset lack of liquidity and depresses the prices of BTS, WHY the bug is not fixed immediately?
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: Tuck Fheman on August 06, 2015, 03:02:20 am
I didn't mean from me, TK. I'm an arbitrary social currency, not a person. Just look at my avatar - I barely have one arm. Anyways...hang in there. HUGS!

I need some clarification, does a one arm grasp actually qualify as a hug?

I mean, I've read all the Cosmo articles on hugging and I seem to remember something about one arm hugs being a sign of trouble in the relationship (Disclaimer : depending upon where it originates).
 :P

Actually, you don't need any arms to hug

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3178095/Touching-moment-armless-three-year-old-girl-meets-hugs-pilot-condition.html

(http://goo.gl/vuC9is) (http://goo.gl/I0sgRG)(http://goo.gl/HCtte0)
Disclaimer (https://goo.gl/IFHV6s)  :P
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: Helikopterben on August 06, 2015, 05:33:07 pm
You sold at the bottom.  Look at ethereum, maidsafe, ect.  Bitshares is on pace with most other 2.0 projects, and bitshares is the most undervalued right now IMHO.  I have a feeling ether will be overhyped and overpriced to begin with considering their stage of development.  It should be an interesting 2nd half of 2015 with the launch of ethereum frontier and bitshares 2.0.  2016 is shaping up to be spectacular, similar to bitcoin in 2013.  I look forward to watching the fireworks.
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: lil_jay890 on August 06, 2015, 05:51:45 pm
You sold at the bottom.  Look at ethereum, maidsafe, ect.  Bitshares is on pace with most other 2.0 projects, and bitshares is the most undervalued right now IMHO.  I have a feeling ether will be overhyped and overpriced to begin with considering their stage of development.  It should be an interesting 2nd half of 2015 with the launch of ethereum frontier and bitshares 2.0. 2016 is shaping up to be spectacular, similar to bitcoin in 2013.  I look forward to watching the fireworks.

I think this statement is said every year and every year has been a disappointment...
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: lakerta06 on August 06, 2015, 06:00:42 pm
You sold at the bottom.  Look at ethereum, maidsafe, ect.  Bitshares is on pace with most other 2.0 projects, and bitshares is the most undervalued right now IMHO.  I have a feeling ether will be overhyped and overpriced to begin with considering their stage of development.  It should be an interesting 2nd half of 2015 with the launch of ethereum frontier and bitshares 2.0. 2016 is shaping up to be spectacular, similar to bitcoin in 2013.  I look forward to watching the fireworks.

I think this statement is said every year and every year has been a disappointment...
The question is, do you believe this statement will eventually be true? If yes, the rest is patience. If no, well, if you didnt believe you wouldnt be here.
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: MrJeans on August 06, 2015, 06:27:01 pm
The only thing I regret is not having money to buy more BTS at this price. Right now I'm broke as shit because I have no job right now, but I'm going to be patient and see what the future beholds for Bitshares.
lmao
Are you me?
 :P
Working on a startup, one year in, which means I'm worse than broke!
But if I wasnt I would be taking advantage of these prices.
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: Tuck Fheman on August 06, 2015, 09:03:20 pm
Bitshares is on pace with most other 2.0 projects, and bitshares is the most undervalued right now IMHO

I'd say Qora is the most undervalued 2.0 project. BTS #2.
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: Helikopterben on August 06, 2015, 09:46:24 pm
You sold at the bottom.  Look at ethereum, maidsafe, ect.  Bitshares is on pace with most other 2.0 projects, and bitshares is the most undervalued right now IMHO.  I have a feeling ether will be overhyped and overpriced to begin with considering their stage of development.  It should be an interesting 2nd half of 2015 with the launch of ethereum frontier and bitshares 2.0. 2016 is shaping up to be spectacular, similar to bitcoin in 2013.  I look forward to watching the fireworks.

I think this statement is said every year and every year has been a disappointment...

2009 -2013 = dissapointment???  I'm not sure what you were expecting.

2014 may be considered a dissapointment depending on you perspective, perhaps in terms of price.   In terms of innovation, I would consider it a great year. 
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: konelectric on August 07, 2015, 12:08:14 am
I think you need a HUG.

I am  waist high in shit (somewhat brownie stuff) as it is. So, thanks but no.
(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/35/d0/d7/35d0d74d4b21093a2f3b0925609bd6bf.jpg)
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: Riverhead on August 07, 2015, 02:28:21 am
(http://i.imgur.com/R1PsIIw.gif)

Tonyk is not a FUDer. He has contributed a lot over the years. His current posts are negative but they come from his true feelings; not a desire to spread FUD.

Once the bear market turns around and BTS starts to gain traction people's outlook will improve.

Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: matador123 on August 07, 2015, 02:45:32 am
I think people need to stop freaking out over the price so much. Everything right now is basically pure speculation until BitShares 2.0 comes out. Is anyone really surprised that the price is so low when BitShares 2.0 hasn't actually be implemented or proven yet? The ideas are amazing but unless there is a product that works then there's no real reason it SHOULD be valued any higher.

If you look at any crypto 2.0 project you can see that they all take much longer than expected to implement in a good way. Ethereum is the best example of this besides BTS. They were the golden child of crypto 2.0 for a long time, at a time when BitShares was having all kinds of problems and criticisms, and in recent months Ethereum has started to experience many of those problems themselves. Nobody is immune to it. Such is the nature of this industry. We're all exploring new territory here. It's not gonna be a quick and easy process.

That being said, even if (and possibly when) some of the other crypto 2.0 projects start climbing in value more quickly than BTS does, I'm not going to be extremely worried. Yes, market cap is generally a good indicator of the success of a crypto project, but BTS is essentially different from ANY other project that's on the market right now. It is a totally new model for a decentralized business. In many ways it borrows features from centralized businesses, and in many ways it borrows decentralization features that were pioneered by Bitcoin. That's why I always like the DAC moniker. It might not be the best term to use for legal purposes, but in many ways it's a great descriptor of BTS. BTS offers financial products, and our growth is going to depend on having solid software that allows for WORKING financial products that provide UTILITy. If that mission is accomplished, people will use the products, and REAL, SUSTAINABLE, NON-SPECULATIVE growth will follow from there.
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: Krills on August 07, 2015, 02:58:50 am
look at the ui of 2.0.that is shit.i know the reason why bts kept falling.coz dev suck
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: clayop on August 07, 2015, 03:26:34 am
look at the ui of 2.0.that is shit.i know the reason why bts kept falling.coz dev suck

FUD failed
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on August 07, 2015, 03:35:22 am
I think people need to stop freaking out over the price so much. Everything right now is basically pure speculation until BitShares 2.0 comes out. Is anyone really surprised that the price is so low when BitShares 2.0 hasn't actually be implemented or proven yet? The ideas are amazing but unless there is a product that works then there's no real reason it SHOULD be valued any higher.

If you look at any crypto 2.0 project you can see that they all take much longer than expected to implement in a good way. Ethereum is the best example of this besides BTS. They were the golden child of crypto 2.0 for a long time, at a time when BitShares was having all kinds of problems and criticisms, and in recent months Ethereum has started to experience many of those problems themselves. Nobody is immune to it. Such is the nature of this industry. We're all exploring new territory here. It's not gonna be a quick and easy process.

That being said, even if (and possibly when) some of the other crypto 2.0 projects start climbing in value more quickly than BTS does, I'm not going to be extremely worried. Yes, market cap is generally a good indicator of the success of a crypto project, but BTS is essentially different from ANY other project that's on the market right now. It is a totally new model for a decentralized business. In many ways it borrows features from centralized businesses, and in many ways it borrows decentralization features that were pioneered by Bitcoin. That's why I always like the DAC moniker. It might not be the best term to use for legal purposes, but in many ways it's a great descriptor of BTS. BTS offers financial products, and our growth is going to depend on having solid software that allows for WORKING financial products that provide UTILITy. If that mission is accomplished, people will use the products, and REAL, SUSTAINABLE, NON-SPECULATIVE growth will follow from there.

Yes.. utility.. that's where it is at. At the end of the day, bitcoin is only king because you can actually use it to buy stuff.. while the rest are all limited to extremely small spaces. Major retailers are taking bitcoin.. and thats about it.

I want to remind everyone about what happened when iphone with apps came out and how Blackberry responded to it all when it happened. Blackberry couldn't even see how it would work.. how are carriers going to handle the bandwidth? All kinds of short sighted dismissive self interested thinking kept them from seeing the writing on the wall. I only bring this up because last week bytemaster used the rather apt comparison of bitshares 2.0 being like apple with apps platform.

The rest of crypto is in the same state.. they are the Blackberry who were cool and new and loved at one time.. but bitshares 2.0 is going to take it to a whole other level. Clearly the response thus far from most based on media has been to take a similar approach as blackberry.. dismiss, deny, distract.

No other crypto is going to have the same platform.. I agree.. it's a whole other beast.. consider however just how much PR this platform is going to be able to generate compared to others. Every month there is going to be new smart contracts, new exchanges, new companies all utilizing this platform.. the endless supply of news stories are going keep BTS front and center as the UTILITY to it all. I don't think I need to even get into the whole SmartCoin scape.

Hang your head low and bemoan only what you see at the end of your noise, or hold your head high and be able to see out to the horizon to the coming dawn... choice is yours what you want to look at. We all share our views in places like this in the hopes of having our world views validated and gain the connection we are really seeking from others.

"For like seeketh like, and taketh pleasure in the company of its kind."

Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: emailtooaj on August 07, 2015, 03:50:31 am

look at the ui of 2.0.that is shit.i know the reason why bts kept falling.coz dev suck

FUD failed

Krills' statements are just plain worthless and baseless. He ( or she?) would complain that a round pipe isn't round enough! Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: emailtooaj on August 07, 2015, 03:52:24 am
@datasecuritynode very nice comparison


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: donkeypong on August 07, 2015, 04:49:58 am

Tonyk is not a FUDer. He has contributed a lot over the years. His current posts are negative but they come from his true feelings; not a desire to spread FUD.

Once the bear market turns around and BTS starts to gain traction people's outlook will improve.

Hang in there, everyone. Each day brings us closer. Tonyk is a genius, not an FUDer. Anyone suggesting otherwise undervalues the depth of tonyk's passion for this project + his many contributions to our understanding of BitShares and of life on this planet. He's a little more honest than some of us.

Frankly, I don't see any reason to comment on krills; this poster has never written anything worth reading, let alone demanding of a response. By the way, "krill" is already plural; you don't need an 's'. Your English lesson for the day.
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: mint chocolate chip on August 07, 2015, 04:57:37 am
BM saying that 90% of the code is finished in early June has bothered me too for the past month, it definitely made it seem like 2.0 was closer to ready than it probably was, and then the Bond Market gets pushed back to 2.1 so it seemed that that last 10% was just reduced further. I have since discovered the ninety-ninety rule...
Quote
Ninety-ninety rule
In computer programming and software engineering, the ninety-ninety rule is a humorous aphorism that states:

The first 90 percent of the code accounts for the first 90 percent of the development time. The remaining 10 percent of the code accounts for the other 90 percent of the development time.

—Tom Cargill, Bell Labs

... as it turns out with the anticipation and cheap prices I've ended up with more BTS than I have ever had.
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on August 07, 2015, 05:01:57 am
BM saying that 90% of the code is finished in early June has bothered me too for the past month, it definitely made it seem like 2.0 was closer to ready than it probably was, and then the Bond Market gets pushed back to 2.1 so it seemed that that last 10% was just reduced further. I have since discovered the ninety-ninety rule...
Quote
Ninety-ninety rule
In computer programming and software engineering, the ninety-ninety rule is a humorous aphorism that states:

The first 90 percent of the code accounts for the first 90 percent of the development time. The remaining 10 percent of the code accounts for the other 90 percent of the development time.

—Tom Cargill, Bell Labs

... as it turns out with the anticipation and cheap prices I've ended up with more BTS than I have ever had.

Nice.. 90 90  +5%
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: Ben Mason on August 07, 2015, 06:13:43 am

Tonyk is not a FUDer. He has contributed a lot over the years. His current posts are negative but they come from his true feelings; not a desire to spread FUD.

Once the bear market turns around and BTS starts to gain traction people's outlook will improve.

Hang in there, everyone. Each day brings us closer. Tonyk is a genius, not an FUDer. Anyone suggesting otherwise undervalues the depth of tonyk's passion for this project + his many contributions to our understanding of BitShares and of life on this planet. He's a little more honest than some of us.

Frankly, I don't see any reason to comment on krills; this poster has never written anything worth reading, let alone demanding of a response. By the way, "krill" is already plural; you don't need an 's'. Your English lesson for the day.
I would agree with you about tonyk, but for the fact that a) he's sold out b) he is so dismissive of everyone else's efforts, patience, alternative view of the situation. It's not FUD, it's just worthless ranting and beneath someone of his intelligence and contribution. If we could know that the technology we are building with Bitshares would usher in 10,000 years of peace, harmony and equilibrium for the human race, what would we sacrifice? Tonyk apparently has reached his limit, good for him. Let the rest of us push on.
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: tonyk on August 07, 2015, 06:52:42 am
On more than one occasion I have read my own posts in a day or two and have had hard time getting all that I meant with it (only partly kidding)..

The OP on the other hand was quite clear and well explained (obviously not), but let me put in another way:

When the lead developer of the project wants the BTS price to go down* who am I to argue with him. And as I have no other means to short BTS I did the next best thing - sold (not now but within days of the brownie points announcement) and am waiting for the price to at least cut in half to buy back.

And while I do not see many other excellent opportunities (in crypto) @ Riverhead, I am mainly disappointed that the falling of the price is so slow... :)

I will leave the usual reactions by quite a few of you - "FUD- to everything that you do not like guys"., and will comment on the bond thing - the bond thing was/is not anything great in its current form, so do not cry over it. Ever since BM started talking about the bond market I could not think of a elegant and good way to do it. BM claimed he has figured it out as way back as last summer. I will repeat for a hundredth time - the current solution is nothing to jump in joy for. So in a way of 'speeding' things up the bond non-inclusion is a good thing, imho.

* Counting your few ( less then about 100) with any significant holdings even by the lowest standards) obedient followers when you can have a product that can bring thousands of new once. Product that is in virtual standstill for a good 9 mo.; is a clear signal to the market - this thing (BTS) is overpriced and we (I3, CNX, BM) either do not care about its price  or even want it to go lower...
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: jakub on August 07, 2015, 07:43:17 am
I think people need to stop freaking out over the price so much. Everything right now is basically pure speculation until BitShares 2.0 comes out. Is anyone really surprised that the price is so low when BitShares 2.0 hasn't actually be implemented or proven yet? The ideas are amazing but unless there is a product that works then there's no real reason it SHOULD be valued any higher.

If you look at any crypto 2.0 project you can see that they all take much longer than expected to implement in a good way. Ethereum is the best example of this besides BTS. They were the golden child of crypto 2.0 for a long time, at a time when BitShares was having all kinds of problems and criticisms, and in recent months Ethereum has started to experience many of those problems themselves. Nobody is immune to it. Such is the nature of this industry. We're all exploring new territory here. It's not gonna be a quick and easy process.

That being said, even if (and possibly when) some of the other crypto 2.0 projects start climbing in value more quickly than BTS does, I'm not going to be extremely worried. Yes, market cap is generally a good indicator of the success of a crypto project, but BTS is essentially different from ANY other project that's on the market right now. It is a totally new model for a decentralized business. In many ways it borrows features from centralized businesses, and in many ways it borrows decentralization features that were pioneered by Bitcoin. That's why I always like the DAC moniker. It might not be the best term to use for legal purposes, but in many ways it's a great descriptor of BTS. BTS offers financial products, and our growth is going to depend on having solid software that allows for WORKING financial products that provide UTILITy. If that mission is accomplished, people will use the products, and REAL, SUSTAINABLE, NON-SPECULATIVE growth will follow from there.
+5%
This is exactly what I think.
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: cass on August 07, 2015, 08:27:48 am
I think people need to stop freaking out over the price so much. Everything right now is basically pure speculation until BitShares 2.0 comes out. Is anyone really surprised that the price is so low when BitShares 2.0 hasn't actually be implemented or proven yet? The ideas are amazing but unless there is a product that works then there's no real reason it SHOULD be valued any higher.

If you look at any crypto 2.0 project you can see that they all take much longer than expected to implement in a good way. Ethereum is the best example of this besides BTS. They were the golden child of crypto 2.0 for a long time, at a time when BitShares was having all kinds of problems and criticisms, and in recent months Ethereum has started to experience many of those problems themselves. Nobody is immune to it. Such is the nature of this industry. We're all exploring new territory here. It's not gonna be a quick and easy process.

That being said, even if (and possibly when) some of the other crypto 2.0 projects start climbing in value more quickly than BTS does, I'm not going to be extremely worried. Yes, market cap is generally a good indicator of the success of a crypto project, but BTS is essentially different from ANY other project that's on the market right now. It is a totally new model for a decentralized business. In many ways it borrows features from centralized businesses, and in many ways it borrows decentralization features that were pioneered by Bitcoin. That's why I always like the DAC moniker. It might not be the best term to use for legal purposes, but in many ways it's a great descriptor of BTS. BTS offers financial products, and our growth is going to depend on having solid software that allows for WORKING financial products that provide UTILITy. If that mission is accomplished, people will use the products, and REAL, SUSTAINABLE, NON-SPECULATIVE growth will follow from there.
+5%
This is exactly what I think.

well said
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: btswildpig on August 07, 2015, 09:30:57 am
Would you believe me if I tell you I've predicted the price of BTS in the past months and maybe in the up coming months ?

I've done that based on the K-Chart , not the news/performance/expectations ...... etc .

Of course I'm not Ander , I won't brag about how much I made or lost from the prediction .

But it confirmed my suspicion all along after I've been digging into technical trading .

Which is , the move of the price generates and confirms expectations  , not the other way around .

With enough money and inventory of a specific stock , the manipulators can drive up the price and tell people the price is rising because of some achievements (it doesn't matter when the said achievement happened , it can even be old news 6 months ago ) .

During these moves , his attempt will be countered with other market players and leave trails of their fights , which is the K-chart .

And if the good news happened at the time when the manipulators didn't have the money of inventory to make a killing profit  , he will do nothing or even push the price down just to get more inventory .


Which by the way , the release of 2.0 may not be the magical day for the price . But when the price goes up , some people will automatically think the price goes up because of its release .

You have your reasons from the selling , but in a technical trading point of view , the selling was bound to happen , either from you because of your disappointment , or some other guy because of his financial troubles or trading habit . Also , when there is a time to go up , some people will buy BTS because they have high expectations of 1 sec confirmation time , but more people will buy it because of the rise itself .

Speculative drive is and always will be a main factor in the price . MONEY don't know what is 1 sec confirmation time ,  nor does he care . And USERS don't have money to maintain a certain price forever .

Some people think without speculative purpose BTS can grow . That's wrong . If people do not have speculative purpose , NO BitAssets will be created . Nobody will short BitAssets without a clear expectation that the price of BTS will go up .  The bigger the size of BitAsset is , the bigger of the speculative actively will be .

I can make a prediction : Even if 2.0 release TODAY , it will not have any effect on the price , because that's what it says in the K-Chart .

Good move on selling the BTS at a relatively high price before the drop though . But it's just luck .....If you don't know why you had that luck , you may sell it right before the next rise because of another disappointment .
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: Riverhead on August 07, 2015, 09:38:50 am
Which is , the move of the price generates and confirms expectations  , not the other way around .

Speculative drive is and always will be a main factor in the price . MONEY don't know what is 1 sec confirmation time ,  nor does he care . And USERS don't have money to maintain a certain price forever .

This.
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: xeroc on August 07, 2015, 09:48:23 am
BTS != money .. its stock and I know for a fact that people just don't know what BTS is all about (is it not yet another altcoin?!)
bitUSD = money .. and no-one cares about it's "price" (some do about its value, but that is out of our hands)
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: btswildpig on August 07, 2015, 09:55:03 am
BTS != money .. its stock and I know for a fact that people just don't know what BTS is all about (is it not yet another altcoin?!)
bitUSD = money .. and no-one cares about it's "price" (some do about its value, but that is out of our hands)

Actually , the Price of a LARGE BATCH of BitUSD is affected by the price of BTS because of the market depth .

Its fiat value also fluctuates in reality .
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: donkeypong on August 07, 2015, 06:32:47 pm
Which is , the move of the price generates and confirms expectations  , not the other way around .

Speculative drive is and always will be a main factor in the price . MONEY don't know what is 1 sec confirmation time ,  nor does he care . And USERS don't have money to maintain a certain price forever .

This.

With low volume and the product still being developed, this should not be a big surprise.
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: davidpbrown on August 07, 2015, 10:13:37 pm
On the upside the external timing is better and perhaps more serious interests will see and understand BitShares2.0 utility.
Hopefully the marketing of that will be as good as the product and not just the hype that is easy to see through. CounterParty[Symbiont]; Overstock; and even Ethereum are doing useful work stimulating the interest of big money, so hopefully BitShares will have a product that appeals to them and perhaps talks their language, so some of them will make use of it; perhaps APIs and CLIs beat GUIs for that?
The downside to BitShares I wonder is the voting and DPoS, which has never seemed compelling to me; just an arbitrary means to an end. Still, if it works in a way that is responsive to the user, then there every chance it'll capitalise on what is at core a really good prospect.

tldr; buy while it's cheap!
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: btswildpig on August 08, 2015, 12:24:10 am
On the upside the external timing is better and perhaps more serious interests will see and understand BitShares2.0 utility.
Hopefully the marketing of that will be as good as the product and not just the hype that is easy to see through. CounterParty[Symbiont]; Overstock; and even Ethereum are doing useful work stimulating the interest of big money, so hopefully BitShares will have a product that appeals to them and perhaps talks their language, so some of them will make use of it; perhaps APIs and CLIs beat GUIs for that?
The downside to BitShares I wonder is the voting and DPoS, which has never seemed compelling to me; just an arbitrary means to an end. Still, if it works in a way that is responsive to the user, then there every chance it'll capitalise on what is at core a really good prospect.

tldr; buy while it's cheap!

The beginning of a bull market must come from a place where people are scared to buy more .
In fact , the old saying is "if those who want to buy more still there , then those who want it down won't stop . "
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: lil_jay890 on August 08, 2015, 12:27:09 am
On the upside the external timing is better and perhaps more serious interests will see and understand BitShares2.0 utility.
Hopefully the marketing of that will be as good as the product and not just the hype that is easy to see through. CounterParty[Symbiont]; Overstock; and even Ethereum are doing useful work stimulating the interest of big money, so hopefully BitShares will have a product that appeals to them and perhaps talks their language, so some of them will make use of it; perhaps APIs and CLIs beat GUIs for that?
The downside to BitShares I wonder is the voting and DPoS, which has never seemed compelling to me; just an arbitrary means to an end. Still, if it works in a way that is responsive to the user, then there every chance it'll capitalise on what is at core a really good prospect.

tldr; buy while it's cheap!

The beginning of a bull market must come from a place where people are scared to buy more .
In fact , the old saying is "if those who want to buy more still there , then those who want it down won't stop . "

You have talked a lot about this "K Chart".  Anywhere I can go and read up about it?
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: btswildpig on August 08, 2015, 01:00:24 am
On the upside the external timing is better and perhaps more serious interests will see and understand BitShares2.0 utility.
Hopefully the marketing of that will be as good as the product and not just the hype that is easy to see through. CounterParty[Symbiont]; Overstock; and even Ethereum are doing useful work stimulating the interest of big money, so hopefully BitShares will have a product that appeals to them and perhaps talks their language, so some of them will make use of it; perhaps APIs and CLIs beat GUIs for that?
The downside to BitShares I wonder is the voting and DPoS, which has never seemed compelling to me; just an arbitrary means to an end. Still, if it works in a way that is responsive to the user, then there every chance it'll capitalise on what is at core a really good prospect.

tldr; buy while it's cheap!

The beginning of a bull market must come from a place where people are scared to buy more .
In fact , the old saying is "if those who want to buy more still there , then those who want it down won't stop . "

You have talked a lot about this "K Chart".  Anywhere I can go and read up about it?

K-chart is the "candle" chart in every exchange ..... red ...green ...ring a bell ?
I think the more common term would be "Candlesticks chart" , or "K line graph" ?
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: lil_jay890 on August 08, 2015, 01:04:17 am
On the upside the external timing is better and perhaps more serious interests will see and understand BitShares2.0 utility.
Hopefully the marketing of that will be as good as the product and not just the hype that is easy to see through. CounterParty[Symbiont]; Overstock; and even Ethereum are doing useful work stimulating the interest of big money, so hopefully BitShares will have a product that appeals to them and perhaps talks their language, so some of them will make use of it; perhaps APIs and CLIs beat GUIs for that?
The downside to BitShares I wonder is the voting and DPoS, which has never seemed compelling to me; just an arbitrary means to an end. Still, if it works in a way that is responsive to the user, then there every chance it'll capitalise on what is at core a really good prospect.

tldr; buy while it's cheap!

The beginning of a bull market must come from a place where people are scared to buy more .
In fact , the old saying is "if those who want to buy more still there , then those who want it down won't stop . "

You have talked a lot about this "K Chart".  Anywhere I can go and read up about it?

K-chart is the "candle" chart in every exchange ..... red ...green ...ring a bell ?
I think the more common term would be "Candlesticks chart" , or "K line graph" ?

Haha I know japanese candle stick charts very well.  I just never heard of it referred to as the K-chart... And here I thought you were using some proprietary indicator.
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: btswildpig on August 08, 2015, 01:09:08 am
On the upside the external timing is better and perhaps more serious interests will see and understand BitShares2.0 utility.
Hopefully the marketing of that will be as good as the product and not just the hype that is easy to see through. CounterParty[Symbiont]; Overstock; and even Ethereum are doing useful work stimulating the interest of big money, so hopefully BitShares will have a product that appeals to them and perhaps talks their language, so some of them will make use of it; perhaps APIs and CLIs beat GUIs for that?
The downside to BitShares I wonder is the voting and DPoS, which has never seemed compelling to me; just an arbitrary means to an end. Still, if it works in a way that is responsive to the user, then there every chance it'll capitalise on what is at core a really good prospect.

tldr; buy while it's cheap!

The beginning of a bull market must come from a place where people are scared to buy more .
In fact , the old saying is "if those who want to buy more still there , then those who want it down won't stop . "

You have talked a lot about this "K Chart".  Anywhere I can go and read up about it?

K-chart is the "candle" chart in every exchange ..... red ...green ...ring a bell ?
I think the more common term would be "Candlesticks chart" , or "K line graph" ?

Haha I know japanese candle stick charts very well.  I just never heard of it referred to as the K-chart... And here I thought you were using some proprietary indicator.

I assume the candle stick charts was invented by a Japanese , and the name in Japanese speaks like "K" (which is not written like K) , so some "direct translation based on how it sounds" from the old days calls it "K-chart" .
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: ag on August 08, 2015, 04:00:09 am
On the upside the external timing is better and perhaps more serious interests will see and understand BitShares2.0 utility.
Hopefully the marketing of that will be as good as the product and not just the hype that is easy to see through. CounterParty[Symbiont]; Overstock; and even Ethereum are doing useful work stimulating the interest of big money, so hopefully BitShares will have a product that appeals to them and perhaps talks their language, so some of them will make use of it; perhaps APIs and CLIs beat GUIs for that?
The downside to BitShares I wonder is the voting and DPoS, which has never seemed compelling to me; just an arbitrary means to an end. Still, if it works in a way that is responsive to the user, then there every chance it'll capitalise on what is at core a really good prospect.

tldr; buy while it's cheap!

The beginning of a bull market must come from a place where people are scared to buy more .
In fact , the old saying is "if those who want to buy more still there , then those who want it down won't stop . "


I never heard that saying. And it doesn't make any sense?

It is logical: demand increase --> price increase. And Not what you propose!!
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: btswildpig on August 08, 2015, 04:37:29 am
On the upside the external timing is better and perhaps more serious interests will see and understand BitShares2.0 utility.
Hopefully the marketing of that will be as good as the product and not just the hype that is easy to see through. CounterParty[Symbiont]; Overstock; and even Ethereum are doing useful work stimulating the interest of big money, so hopefully BitShares will have a product that appeals to them and perhaps talks their language, so some of them will make use of it; perhaps APIs and CLIs beat GUIs for that?
The downside to BitShares I wonder is the voting and DPoS, which has never seemed compelling to me; just an arbitrary means to an end. Still, if it works in a way that is responsive to the user, then there every chance it'll capitalise on what is at core a really good prospect.

tldr; buy while it's cheap!

The beginning of a bull market must come from a place where people are scared to buy more .
In fact , the old saying is "if those who want to buy more still there , then those who want it down won't stop . "


I never heard that saying. And it doesn't make any sense?

It is logical: demand increase --> price increase. And Not what you propose!!

Ask anyone who knows about stock market .
This phenomenon happens in the middle and near the end of a bear market , where people who still trying to grab the bottom and failed . The signal is not about "all people" , is about most people .

If there is a bull market in play , the manipulators with deep pockets will suppress the price further more in order to gain more leverage in the bull market .

The process is also called "dishwashing" in some place , which means exactly like that ------ The manipulators will drive the price up and down and make most people sell their stock and collect them all . When they figure out that not many people will be selling , also not many people will be buying other than him , they will finally drive the price up . That's where the old saying come from. And that's why bull market has cycles instead of sustaining forever .

In any speculative market with high P/E ration , the pattern will be the same . Because in these markets most demands are temporary driven by speculative drive  instead of organic demand .

Demand increase doesn't mean price increase . You have to account for the volume and people who are waiting to sell .   If there are 2 million USD sell pressure waiting(actually there are) , by your logic even if the demand increase by 2 million USD , because it counters the sell pressure , it won't affect the price . 

What is a bull market ? -----Bull market means most people lost their leverage while big money has it all , and big money allows s small percent of people to hold their leverage because most ordinary people don't have the ability to exit at the right place in a bull market , so the selling pressure would be gone while the big money drives it up .

"The price will be increased by demand" , that's not in any serious textbook . The right term should be ----"The price is driven by the supply-demand relationship" . It's a dynamic process .
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: raginglikeaboss on August 09, 2015, 02:42:04 am
On the upside the external timing is better and perhaps more serious interests will see and understand BitShares2.0 utility.
Hopefully the marketing of that will be as good as the product and not just the hype that is easy to see through. CounterParty[Symbiont]; Overstock; and even Ethereum are doing useful work stimulating the interest of big money, so hopefully BitShares will have a product that appeals to them and perhaps talks their language, so some of them will make use of it; perhaps APIs and CLIs beat GUIs for that?
The downside to BitShares I wonder is the voting and DPoS, which has never seemed compelling to me; just an arbitrary means to an end. Still, if it works in a way that is responsive to the user, then there every chance it'll capitalise on what is at core a really good prospect.

tldr; buy while it's cheap!

The beginning of a bull market must come from a place where people are scared to buy more .
In fact , the old saying is "if those who want to buy more still there , then those who want it down won't stop . "


I never heard that saying. And it doesn't make any sense?

It is logical: demand increase --> price increase. And Not what you propose!!

Ask anyone who knows about stock market .
This phenomenon happens in the middle and near the end of a bear market , where people who still trying to grab the bottom and failed . The signal is not about "all people" , is about most people .

If there is a bull market in play , the manipulators with deep pockets will suppress the price further more in order to gain more leverage in the bull market .

The process is also called "dishwashing" in some place , which means exactly like that ------ The manipulators will drive the price up and down and make most people sell their stock and collect them all . When they figure out that not many people will be selling , also not many people will be buying other than him , they will finally drive the price up . That's where the old saying come from. And that's why bull market has cycles instead of sustaining forever .

In any speculative market with high P/E ration , the pattern will be the same . Because in these markets most demands are temporary driven by speculative drive  instead of organic demand .

Demand increase doesn't mean price increase . You have to account for the volume and people who are waiting to sell .   If there are 2 million USD sell pressure waiting(actually there are) , by your logic even if the demand increase by 2 million USD , because it counters the sell pressure , it won't affect the price . 

What is a bull market ? -----Bull market means most people lost their leverage while big money has it all , and big money allows s small percent of people to hold their leverage because most ordinary people don't have the ability to exit at the right place in a bull market , so the selling pressure would be gone while the big money drives it up .

"The price will be increased by demand" , that's not in any serious textbook . The right term should be ----"The price is driven by the supply-demand relationship" . It's a dynamic process .

I was want you to know I just took a screenshot of this post.  Incredibly well stated, sir.
Title: Re: Very disappointing BTS performance
Post by: Simeon II on August 09, 2015, 10:45:05 pm
On the upside the external timing is better and perhaps more serious interests will see and understand BitShares2.0 utility.
Hopefully the marketing of that will be as good as the product and not just the hype that is easy to see through. CounterParty[Symbiont]; Overstock; and even Ethereum are doing useful work stimulating the interest of big money, so hopefully BitShares will have a product that appeals to them and perhaps talks their language, so some of them will make use of it; perhaps APIs and CLIs beat GUIs for that?
The downside to BitShares I wonder is the voting and DPoS, which has never seemed compelling to me; just an arbitrary means to an end. Still, if it works in a way that is responsive to the user, then there every chance it'll capitalise on what is at core a really good prospect.

tldr; buy while it's cheap!

The beginning of a bull market must come from a place where people are scared to buy more .
In fact , the old saying is "if those who want to buy more still there , then those who want it down won't stop . "


I never heard that saying. And it doesn't make any sense?

It is logical: demand increase --> price increase. And Not what you propose!!

Ask anyone who knows about stock market .
This phenomenon happens in the middle and near the end of a bear market , where people who still trying to grab the bottom and failed . The signal is not about "all people" , is about most people .

If there is a bull market in play , the manipulators with deep pockets will suppress the price further more in order to gain more leverage in the bull market .

The process is also called "dishwashing" in some place , which means exactly like that ------ The manipulators will drive the price up and down and make most people sell their stock and collect them all . When they figure out that not many people will be selling , also not many people will be buying other than him , they will finally drive the price up . That's where the old saying come from. And that's why bull market has cycles instead of sustaining forever .

In any speculative market with high P/E ration , the pattern will be the same . Because in these markets most demands are temporary driven by speculative drive  instead of organic demand .

Demand increase doesn't mean price increase . You have to account for the volume and people who are waiting to sell .   If there are 2 million USD sell pressure waiting(actually there are) , by your logic even if the demand increase by 2 million USD , because it counters the sell pressure , it won't affect the price . 

What is a bull market ? -----Bull market means most people lost their leverage while big money has it all , and big money allows s small percent of people to hold their leverage because most ordinary people don't have the ability to exit at the right place in a bull market , so the selling pressure would be gone while the big money drives it up .

"The price will be increased by demand" , that's not in any serious textbook . The right term should be ----"The price is driven by the supply-demand relationship" . It's a dynamic process .

I was want you to know I just took a screenshot of this post.  Incredibly well stated, sir.

I was want to know as well... in such 'I was hope' took a screenshot too. More hope wildpig more more sence, no big very big ago posts.
:)