BitShares Forum

Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rune on August 11, 2015, 12:36:42 pm

Title: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Rune on August 11, 2015, 12:36:42 pm
Doing a sharedrop on the bitshares community is obviously something I have been thinking about since the beginning of eDollar (which was basically "rip off bitUSD and put it on ethereum"). Nowadays the project has ballooned in scope and has become a fully featured collateralized p2p credit and insurance system regulated by an autonomous bank, insurer and market maker (but at its core it's still basically "complicated bitUSD").

The problem is I have no idea how to do a sharedrop in a way I will know is going to guarantee that both Maker and the community comes out ahead. The trend so far has been either 20% sharedrops or nothing, but when our market cap is already at 2 million USD this would amount to us giving away 400k USD.

That being said, getting the support of the bitshares community would obviously be incredibly valuable to us. One thing I'd love would be be to just get the critical eyes of this community attempting to butcher the mechanics of the DAI cryptobond peg. But more crucially would be to get valuable stakeholders from the only community that has real experience with the messy task that is DAC governance. Maker will have some really complicated governance - such as a futarchy controlling root access and upgrades/hard forks - so we obviously would love to know that there are experienced and intelligent voters out there participating in the governance process.

But in the end it all comes down to cost vs benefit. Many sharedrops in various communities have been complete failures, but I don't want to give up on the concept; it just needs to be carefully planned and thought through. Which is why the only solution I can think of is to post here and ask for input - in what could basically be an open negotiation of sharedrop specifications.

So far the ideas I’ve thought of are:

Do a flat rate vested sharedrop to all users who want it from a list of core community members, such as https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17895.0.html . The amount could be in the order of 100 USD worth of MKR per person at current valuation, or something similar (open for negotiations).

or

Give vested MKR options to BTS holders proportional to their BTS holdings. Something like 1 year vested MKR at 25-50% of the MKR market rate, with a max buy proportional to their BTS stake (e.g. someone who owns 1% of all BTS could buy 0.1% of all MKR at this price, or something like that).

I’m open for any other suggestions of what you think is best for both sides. I’m also open for individual negotiations with community members, if you have something to contribute. Ultimately I’m looking to get value in return for whatever we end up doing, and the most valuable thing would simply be establishing a relationship between Maker and the bitshares community.

I’m also open for ideas on other ways Maker and bitshares can cooperate. One thing we are going to do for certain is to approve BTS as collateral for the dai, so people can do BTS margin trading at the dai interest rate. Of course this doesn't really offer any more value to bitshares than bitUSD already gives. Another thing that might be possible in the future is to make a privatized bitUSD backed by the dai, but that will need cross chain functionality first.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts :)
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: xeroc on August 11, 2015, 01:02:26 pm
Doing a sharedrop on the bitshares community is obviously something I have been
thinking about since the beginning of eDollar (which was basically "rip off
bitUSD and put it on ethereum").
I am glad to hear this. We kind of miss you here :)

Quote
That being said, getting the support of the bitshares community would obviously
be incredibly valuable to us. One thing I'd love would be be to just get the
critical eyes of this community attempting to butcher the mechanics of the DAI
cryptobond peg. But more crucially would be to get valuable stakeholders from
the only community that has real experience with the messy task that is DAC
governance. Maker will have some really complicated governance - such as a
futarchy controlling root access and upgrades/hard forks - so we obviously would
love to know that there are experienced and intelligent voters out there
participating in the governance process.
I am sure we can find some here ..

Wanted to read through your stuff anyway.

Quote
But in the end it all comes down to cost vs benefit. Many sharedrops in various
communities have been complete failures, but I don't want to give up on the
concept; it just needs to be carefully planned and thought through. Which is why
the only solution I can think of is to post here and ask for input - in what
could basically be an open negotiation of sharedrop specifications.
IMHO, because you don't really use any of the BitShares tech (software-wise),
I'd say there is no need to sharedrop at all .. unless, of course you want to
grab and motivate the bitshares community as a whole.

Alternatively, you may consider not sharedropping BTS but Brownie.PTS (the
tokens handed out by BM as an appreciation of work done for the BitShares
ecosystem -- disclaimer: I have some)

That being said, I think you may want to answer the following question to
yourself: What "community" do you want to reach?

Quote
So far the ideas I’ve thought of are:

Do a flat rate vested sharedrop to all users who want it from a list of core
community members, such as
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17895.0.html . The amount could be in
the order of 100 USD worth of MKR per person at current valuation, or something
similar (open for negotiations).
or

Give vested MKR options to BTS holders proportional to their BTS holdings.
Something like 1 year vested MKR at 25-50% of the MKR market rate, with a max
buy proportional to their BTS stake (e.g. someone who owns 1% of all BTS could
buy 0.1% of all MKR at this price, or something like that).
IMHO $100 is enough to motivate people to take a closer look at the concept and
give valuable input. However, again, please consider sharedroppping on
Brownie.PTS instead (@stan).

Quote
I’m open for any other suggestions of what you think is best for both sides. I’m
also open for individual negotiations with community members, if you have
something to contribute. Ultimately I’m looking to get value in return for
whatever we end up doing, and the most valuable thing would simply be
establishing a relationship between Maker and the bitshares community.
I like the sound of that. Imho we can learn alot from each other while not being
competitors. We could even end up having gateways/bridges to each others'
tokens.

Quote
I’m also open for ideas on other ways Maker and bitshares can cooperate. One
thing we are going to do for certain is to approve BTS as collateral for the
dai, so people can do BTS margin trading at the dai interest rate. Of course
this doesn't really offer any more value to bitshares than bitUSD already gives.
Another thing that might be possible in the future is to make a privatized
bitUSD backed by the dai, but that will need cross chain functionality first.
Wow .. that sounds AWESOME .. though I don't know how to do that technically ..
in terms of cross-chain collateral .. but I like the idea .. much love, every
collateral ...
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Ander on August 11, 2015, 01:27:52 pm

IMHO, because you don't really use any of the BitShares tech (software-wise),
I'd say there is no need to sharedrop at all .. unless, of course you want to
grab and motivate the bitshares community as a whole.

Alternatively, you may consider not sharedropping BTS but Brownie.PTS (the
tokens handed out by BM as an appreciation of work done for the BitShares
ecosystem -- disclaimer: I have some)

Xeroc, stop trying to ruin the BTS value, and let someone sharedrop on BTS.
Seriously, what are you trying to do.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: fuzzy on August 11, 2015, 01:34:23 pm
Don't forget that by sharedropping on the community, you are also potentially gaining substantially from the services our community has built (for instance potential for being listed on metaexchange and beyond bitcoin hangouts are just a couple). 

Out of curiosity, though...why not just build this on bts and try to compete directly with bitUSD?  It seems pretty clear that ethereum not as capable (at present) to compare with bitshares both on a governance side (ethereum needs it's own "foundation" while bitshares has implemented separations of power and delegates)...and that isn't even talking about scalability and throughout potential.

I'm glad to see you back too.  But am definitely curious why ethereum seemed the better choice, considering what you are doing and that our community would indeed be one of the most valuable places on the net for what you are trying to do.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: xeroc on August 11, 2015, 01:36:04 pm
Xeroc, stop trying to ruin the BTS value, and let someone sharedrop on BTS.
Seriously, what are you trying to do.
Why would "not-being-sharedropped" ruing the BTS valuation?

I'd rather be as objective as I can independent of my personal position in terms of "stake".
Can I not put my opinion here? Does it not make sense to (at least) consider sharedropping onto brownie.pts?

Since rune does not use any of the bitshares technology he is free to do what every he likes .. no social "contract" applies. Even though I would welcome any sharedrop ontop of BTS, I am not so certain it achieves rune's goals. That's all I wanted to express ..
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Rune on August 11, 2015, 01:40:37 pm

IMHO, because you don't really use any of the BitShares tech (software-wise),
I'd say there is no need to sharedrop at all .. unless, of course you want to
grab and motivate the bitshares community as a whole.

Alternatively, you may consider not sharedropping BTS but Brownie.PTS (the
tokens handed out by BM as an appreciation of work done for the BitShares
ecosystem -- disclaimer: I have some)

Xeroc, stop trying to ruin the BTS value, and let someone sharedrop on BTS.
Seriously, what are you trying to do.

Don't worry - he can't talk me out of it :P
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: fuzzy on August 11, 2015, 01:48:43 pm

IMHO, because you don't really use any of the BitShares tech (software-wise),
I'd say there is no need to sharedrop at all .. unless, of course you want to
grab and motivate the bitshares community as a whole.

Alternatively, you may consider not sharedropping BTS but Brownie.PTS (the
tokens handed out by BM as an appreciation of work done for the BitShares
ecosystem -- disclaimer: I have some)

Xeroc, stop trying to ruin the BTS value, and let someone sharedrop on BTS.
Seriously, what are you trying to do.

Don't worry - he can't talk me out of it :P

I am 100% sure Rune would want to.  Strategically it would be a brilliant way to bring bitshares community members and give them exposure to ethereum.  Exposure means some of their time (and experience/mindshare) goes toward contributing to Maker and Ethereum.  This is actually one of the reasons we always thought sharedropping would be so valuable--astute people who want to compete will have a list of individuals on every applicable blockchain to recruit as a citizen (or far more).  The addition of human capitol to any project in this space--especially from passionate, intelligent contributors who pool in this sphere--is priceless. Yet another idea that started here :P
Which brings me back to...why not here? Or on both chains...or on your own DPOS Ethereum chain? :)
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: xeroc on August 11, 2015, 02:10:10 pm
Don't worry - he can't talk me out of it :P
Seems I didn't express myself perfectly.
It never was the intention to "talk you out" of sharedropping onto BTS .. I rather wanted to bring additional thoughts on the table.

Heck, I would definitely profit more from being sharedropped via BTS than I would with Brownies .. but that is not the point .. it is not about throwing away money ..
it is about reaching potentially interested people... And I am not certain that every BTS holder has a clue about what is going on with rune's maker .. I would even go as far as stating that brownie.pts holders are most active in the community (and you may want to sharedrop those)

Side fact: BTS has 393,395,829 BTS UNCLAIMED right now .. why sharedrop those?

Just thoughts trying to be as objective as possible with the goal to bring something new to the table ..
nuf said
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Rune on August 11, 2015, 02:22:06 pm
Quote
Which brings me back to...why not here? Or on both chains...or on your own DPOS Ethereum chain? :)

So the important thing to understand is that we didn't choose Ethereum, we chose the EVM. Ethereum is just the first blockchain implementing the EVM, and implementing it is something many blockchains could potentially do in the future, with huge benefits such as being sidechains with each other by default. Right now I know if at least 2 other public blockchains that will be supporting the EVM, and Maker will be able to move part of itself and all of its assets onto these blockchains as well, existing simultaneously on every EVM chain.

There are two main reasons for choosing the EVM 1) it is easier and more efficient to build custom applications like Maker there than in any other way (due to the insanely good solidity scripting language). 2) It is easier to integrate with, and provide financing to, other DAO and dapps that reside in the same ecosystem.

Bitshares is more specialized for providing specific, hardcoded and very efficient products like bitUSD whereas the EVM is a general purpose protocol that can exist on multiple blockchains. Perhaps at some point bitshares might implement it as well, but I have no real idea about the feasibility of this.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Rune on August 11, 2015, 02:29:08 pm
Don't worry - he can't talk me out of it :P
Seems I didn't express myself perfectly.
It never was the intention to "talk you out" of sharedropping onto BTS .. I rather wanted to bring additional thoughts on the table.

Heck, I would definitely profit more from being sharedropped via BTS than I would with Brownies .. but that is not the point .. it is not about throwing away money ..
it is about reaching potentially interested people... And I am not certain that every BTS holder has a clue about what is going on with rune's maker .. I would even go as far as stating that brownie.pts holders are most active in the community (and you may want to sharedrop those)

Side fact: BTS has 393,395,829 BTS UNCLAIMED right now .. why sharedrop those?

Just thoughts trying to be as objective as possible with the goal to bring something new to the table ..
nuf said

I was joking - I know you weren't trying to "talk me out of it" :P

I think brownie.PTS sharedrop might be a better idea though, but as far as I can understand it is basically the list that I posted already? You get brownie.pts for attending beyond bitcoin hangouts right?
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Stan on August 11, 2015, 02:34:51 pm
Side fact: BTS has 393,395,829 BTS UNCLAIMED right now .. why sharedrop those?

There are several good reasons why people might choose not to claim all their shares until the time is right:
So I wouldn't assume that those unmoved shares are abandoned or uninterested...  :)

Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: tbone on August 11, 2015, 02:38:39 pm

Side fact: BTS has 393,395,829 BTS UNCLAIMED right now .. why sharedrop those?


That's a lot of BTS.  Can you explain what "unclaimed" means, exactly.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Stan on August 11, 2015, 02:40:09 pm
Don't worry - he can't talk me out of it :P
Seems I didn't express myself perfectly.
It never was the intention to "talk you out" of sharedropping onto BTS .. I rather wanted to bring additional thoughts on the table.

Heck, I would definitely profit more from being sharedropped via BTS than I would with Brownies .. but that is not the point .. it is not about throwing away money ..
it is about reaching potentially interested people... And I am not certain that every BTS holder has a clue about what is going on with rune's maker .. I would even go as far as stating that brownie.pts holders are most active in the community (and you may want to sharedrop those)

Side fact: BTS has 393,395,829 BTS UNCLAIMED right now .. why sharedrop those?

Just thoughts trying to be as objective as possible with the goal to bring something new to the table ..
nuf said

I was joking - I know you weren't trying to "talk me out of it" :P

I think brownie.PTS sharedrop might be a better idea though, but as far as I can understand it is basically the list that I posted already? You get brownie.pts for attending beyond bitcoin hangouts right?

Bytemaster has been issuing brownie points to everyone he can find that has done something he "appreciates".

So that would tend to be the most active members of the community, with emphasis on those who have made (and presumably will continue to make) great contributions to the ecosystem.

Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: toast on August 11, 2015, 02:45:40 pm
Out of curiosity, though...why not just build this on bts and try to compete directly with bitUSD?  It seems pretty clear that ethereum not as capable (at present) to compare with bitshares both on a governance side (ethereum needs it's own "foundation" while bitshares has implemented separations of power and delegates)...and that isn't even talking about scalability and throughout potential.

It is harder to develop a BTS fork than to write a dapp for ethereum. Ethereum very clearly places developers first and cares only about providing a good toolchain for building dapps.

You are missing the point if you think there's a governance problem. We build our own governance model into our dapp(which again is easier to make dynamic and future-proof). The blockchain is more like a platform. We really don't care at all about what the ethereum foundation does because the protocol is set in stone and there is strong consensus about it.

Scaling (so, transaction costs long term) is the only problem.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: tbone on August 11, 2015, 03:00:31 pm
Quote
Which brings me back to...why not here? Or on both chains...or on your own DPOS Ethereum chain? :)

So the important thing to understand is that we didn't choose Ethereum, we chose the EVM. Ethereum is just the first blockchain implementing the EVM, and implementing it is something many blockchains could potentially do in the future, with huge benefits such as being sidechains with each other by default. Right now I know if at least 2 other public blockchains that will be supporting the EVM, and Maker will be able to move part of itself and all of its assets onto these blockchains as well, existing simultaneously on every EVM chain.

There are two main reasons for choosing the EVM 1) it is easier and more efficient to build custom applications like Maker there than in any other way (due to the insanely good solidity scripting language). 2) It is easier to integrate with, and provide financing to, other DAO and dapps that reside in the same ecosystem.

Bitshares is more specialized for providing specific, hardcoded and very efficient products like bitUSD whereas the EVM is a general purpose protocol that can exist on multiple blockchains. Perhaps at some point bitshares might implement it as well, but I have no real idea about the feasibility of this.

Can you say what public blockchains are looking to implement EVM that you know of so far?

@Bytemaster, would you mind speaking to the feasibility of implementing EVM into Bitshares sometime down the road and whether that could fit into your vision?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: toast on August 11, 2015, 03:04:03 pm
Can you say what public blockchains are looking to implement EVM that you know of so far?

Nothing that I know of. There's one that wants to sharedrop onto BTC I think.

Quote
@bytemaster, would you mind speaking to the feasibility of implementing EVM into Bitshares sometime down the road and whether that could fit into your vision?  Thanks.

BM doesn't want to implement the EVM because it is slow and can't capitalize on graphene's architecture.
You can read someone's thoughts here (vikram's?)  https://github.com/cryptonomex/graphene/wiki/blacklizard-app-finarch#black-lizard--be-the-platform-not-the-app
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: sumantso on August 11, 2015, 03:04:37 pm
I would even go as far as stating that brownie.pts holders are most active in the community

You can't claim that, there will be active members whom BM doesn't appreciate.
......

What is EVM?
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: lil_jay890 on August 11, 2015, 03:12:06 pm
I would even go as far as stating that brownie.pts holders are most active in the community

You can't claim that, there will be active members whom BM doesn't appreciate.
......

What is EVM?

I have brownies and I strongly disagree that they should be a sharedrop target for anyone except bytemaster or crptonomex... They are given out at the discretion of one person who has already admitted that he is too busy to properly oversee who/how many should be given out.  They are mostly given out for tasks that bytemaster deems important... there is plenty of work being done by other people that is beneficial to bitshares that isn't necessarily sanctioned or promoted by Dan.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: nomoreheroes7 on August 11, 2015, 03:22:39 pm
I would even go as far as stating that brownie.pts holders are most active in the community

You can't claim that, there will be active members whom BM doesn't appreciate.
......

What is EVM?

I have brownies and I strongly disagree that they should be a sharedrop target for anyone except bytemaster or crptonomex... They are given out at the discretion of one person who has already admitted that he is too busy to properly oversee who/how many should be given out.  They are mostly given out for tasks that bytemaster deems important... there is plenty of work being done by other people that is beneficial to bitshares that isn't necessarily sanctioned or promoted by Dan.

Agreed. Also, brownies are actively traded on BTS right now. Wouldn't be hard for someone that BM doesn't like/approve of with deep pockets to just buy a whole bunch. And be super-duper "appreciated". lol.

As an aside, I'm not sure what to make of ETH right now. I keep hearing things like the project could take many more years to reach a stable status, dev money seems to be running out, etc. But we have guys like Toast and Rune singing its praises, and people in general seem to just be super hyped and positive about the whole project.

Basically, I guess the question is -- should I be invested in ETH instead? Just not feeling the BTS love lately, from any angle. Maybe it's just the hype of something new and shiny lol. Feels too quiet lately.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: xeroc on August 11, 2015, 03:52:12 pm
good points .. @brownie.pts
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Ben Mason on August 11, 2015, 03:58:19 pm
Hiya Rune, i think you should go for the Bitshares community as a whole.....there's likely enormous potential value locked up within existing network participants with the current distribution.  Once you've identified the maximum % you want to sharedrop, then drop a percentage of that based on BTS stake and drop the remaining % on your subjective analysis of whom from the Bitshares community would be most useful to your Maker project......developers, beyond bitcoin contributors, forum members etc.....
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: NewMine on August 11, 2015, 04:08:47 pm
I would even go as far as stating that brownie.pts holders are most active in the community

You can't claim that, there will be active members whom BM doesn't appreciate.
......

What is EVM?

I am one of those.  Errr, was one of those. I lost all desire to even point out the errors of your ways and decided to let the cards fall where they may. Chatting with ABL a few weeks back, someone who didn't care but had nothing but incentive to see this project succeed, made me realize this project was dead in the water.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: NewMine on August 11, 2015, 04:10:27 pm

IMHO, because you don't really use any of the BitShares tech (software-wise),
I'd say there is no need to sharedrop at all .. unless, of course you want to
grab and motivate the bitshares community as a whole.

Alternatively, you may consider not sharedropping BTS but Brownie.PTS (the
tokens handed out by BM as an appreciation of work done for the BitShares
ecosystem -- disclaimer: I have some)

Xeroc, stop trying to ruin the BTS value, and let someone sharedrop on BTS.
Seriously, what are you trying to do.
You come off as such a POS in this post.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: fuzzy on August 11, 2015, 04:19:09 pm
I would even go as far as stating that brownie.pts holders are most active in the community

You can't claim that, there will be active members whom BM doesn't appreciate.
......

What is EVM?

I am one of those.  Errr, was one of those. I lost all desire to even point out the errors of your ways and decided to let the cards fall where they may. Chatting with ABL a few weeks back, someone who didn't care but had nothing but incentive to see this project succeed, made me realize this project was dead in the water.

What is hilarious to me is how many industry firsts have happened here and still you can find a way to act as though this project is dead.  The fact that you were talking to ABL about it gives no extra validity to your thoughts so it might be best to continue thinking to yourself on this one newmine.  And you know I give you credit when I think it is deserved--so you can be certain my response to your ridiculous point is not trolling.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: EstefanTT on August 11, 2015, 04:28:54 pm
Maybe you could sharedrop the % you feel is right on shareholders and have a couple of % more to sharedrop on the browies.pts holders as a "bonus' for the one BM juge helpfull for the ecosystem.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Ben Mason on August 11, 2015, 04:31:33 pm
I would even go as far as stating that brownie.pts holders are most active in the community

You can't claim that, there will be active members whom BM doesn't appreciate.
......

What is EVM?

I am one of those.  Errr, was one of those. I lost all desire to even point out the errors of your ways and decided to let the cards fall where they may. Chatting with ABL a few weeks back, someone who didn't care but had nothing but incentive to see this project succeed, made me realize this project was dead in the water.

What is hilarious to me is how many industry firsts have happened here and still you can find a way to act as though this project is dead.  The fact that you were talking to ABL about it gives no extra validity to your thoughts so it might be best to continue thinking to yourself on this one newmine.  And you know I give you credit when I think it is deserved--so you can be certain my response to your ridiculous point is not trolling.
thank you fuzzy, well said. 

Newmine, if you could try to look at the positives and think to the future, you might get more out of being a part of this community.   Does it really matter if the journey was difficult, we're all trying to learn from our mistakes.  Once 2.0 is launched, i'm sure your analysis of feature, function and governance will be very welcome!   
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: mint chocolate chip on August 11, 2015, 04:39:00 pm
Don't worry - he can't talk me out of it :P
Seems I didn't express myself perfectly.
It never was the intention to "talk you out" of sharedropping onto BTS .. I rather wanted to bring additional thoughts on the table.

Heck, I would definitely profit more from being sharedropped via BTS than I would with Brownies .. but that is not the point .. it is not about throwing away money ..
it is about reaching potentially interested people... And I am not certain that every BTS holder has a clue about what is going on with rune's maker .. I would even go as far as stating that brownie.pts holders are most active in the community (and you may want to sharedrop those)

Side fact: BTS has 393,395,829 BTS UNCLAIMED right now .. why sharedrop those?

Just thoughts trying to be as objective as possible with the goal to bring something new to the table ..
nuf said

Are you sure you would definitely profit more, I would think that you are one of these top 10 brownie.pts holders so from a % standpoint I would think you likely have a much higher % of brownie.pts of the total supply than BTS of the total supply.

FYI, here's a richlist of BROWNIE.PTS
http://richlist.btsgame.org/

Guessummary:
- Total 4,479,548 brownies are distributed
- Top 10 addresses own 2,790,692 (62.30%)
- 52 addresses own over 10,000 BROWNIES.PTS
- Top 11-52 addresses account for 31.81% (1,424,990)
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Ander on August 11, 2015, 04:53:47 pm
While I would actually profit more from a Brownie sharedrop, I think it is correct to sharedrop to BTS, if your goal is to gain the support of a userbase, as opposed to the couple hundred people who have brownies.  I think Brownies will be good for some bytemaster special sharedrop in the future, but it doesn't make much sense for other crypto developers to use it.

Also, I would like to see BTS be perceived as a potential sharedrop target, which could increase its value in the eyes of potential investors.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: fuzzy on August 11, 2015, 05:11:56 pm
Can you say what public blockchains are looking to implement EVM that you know of so far?

Nothing that I know of. There's one that wants to sharedrop onto BTC I think.

Quote
@bytemaster, would you mind speaking to the feasibility of implementing EVM into Bitshares sometime down the road and whether that could fit into your vision?  Thanks.

BM doesn't want to implement the EVM because it is slow and can't capitalize on graphene's architecture.
You can read someone's thoughts here (vikram's?)  https://github.com/cryptonomex/graphene/wiki/blacklizard-app-finarch#black-lizard--be-the-platform-not-the-app

Hm...if there was a guy I knew who could put together a team to gain the benefits of both bitshares and ethereum....who would it be?  If the Ethereum Virtual Machine (EVM) is so great and a way can rationally be found to implement it, I think it would be a potential competitor to both....and if you sharedropped on both communities, you might see some interesting things happen (and not have to worry about not getting enough crowdfunding)
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: bobmaloney on August 11, 2015, 05:19:37 pm
I'm going to go ahead and throw out the following suggestion from the standpoint that it:

1. Casts the widest net

2. Offers the possibility of bringing back the attention of some early supporters that recognized the need and importance of something like bitUSD (but have drifted away due to numerous reasons) to Bitshares, while introducing them to Maker.

5% - PTS
5% - AGS
5% - BTS
5% - Brownie.PTS

The demographics of each group listed above offers a unique set of potential benefits/qualities and that it would be wise to consider what may be gained from including all of them.

Obviously, the recommendations from those CURRENTLY in the forum for this single snapshot of time will side heavily on BTS/Brownie.PTS (and which I would personally gain most from) - but this community has seen plenty of interest and early support from individuals who could probably be found more heavily in PTS/AGS as well.

My .02 BTS
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: unreadPostsSinceLastVisit on August 11, 2015, 05:30:05 pm
Agreed. Also, brownies are actively traded on BTS right now. Wouldn't be hard for someone that BM doesn't like/approve of with deep pockets to just buy a whole bunch. And be super-duper "appreciated". lol.

Wait really? After finally completing the (currently arduous) task of getting the blockchain to sync I've been trying to buy some BROWNIE.PTS for a couple days, but the orderbook screen is completely blank in my client, so I assumed that everybody was just hodling. Is it just me? I'm looking at it now.

-

I would be extremely disappointed to see future DACs choose BROWNIE.PTS as a sharedrop over BTS. Alot of people donated whatever they could to AGS, and the idea was that future DACs that wanted the community support would sharedrop on those who funded early innovation. BROWNIE.PTS only represents the tiniest, most vocal, most talented segment of the community (or those who have Fridays at 10AM off).

I can tolerate the idea of CNX dropping on BROWNIE.PTS - since their business model is private and shouldn't effect BitShares. Tiny group of people sharedropping a tiny group of contributors doing work for private enterprises makes sense to me, as eerily similar to legacy business models as it seems, I can stomach it, I suppose, it's like somebody starting a private business and doing their payroll through a blockchain.

But I'm not sure I could support any DAC that chose BROWNIE.PTS as a sharedrop target without also sharedropping the community behind them. I can see why you'd want to consider targeting the wizards (and hangout attendees) who own BROWNIE.PTS, I just worry that it's another step closer to a kind of exclusivity that doesn't belong in cryptocurrency. Also, consider the people who read the transcripts of the hangouts. If being at a hangout counts for some BROWNIE.PTS, shouldn't that also? BROWNIE.PTS isn't a perfect system for doing what it's trying to do. (DISCLAIMER: I might be a little butthurt from not having any, so maybe I'm biased).

Lot's of people are lurkers. Lot's of people choose to support BTS with their money instead of their direct efforts. That counts, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: vikram on August 11, 2015, 05:34:47 pm
BM doesn't want to implement the EVM because it is slow and can't capitalize on graphene's architecture.
You can read someone's thoughts here (vikram's?)  https://github.com/cryptonomex/graphene/wiki/blacklizard-app-finarch#black-lizard--be-the-platform-not-the-app

Those are @theoretical's notes.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: bobmaloney on August 11, 2015, 05:36:45 pm

Wait really? After finally completing the (currently arduous) task of getting the blockchain to sync I've been trying to buy some BROWNIE.PTS for a couple days, but the orderbook screen is completely blank in my client, so I assumed that everybody was just hodling. Is it just me? I'm looking at it now.


It has been reasonably active for a few weeks

http://www.bitsharesblocks.com/asset/orderbook?asset=BROWNIE.PTS
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Ander on August 11, 2015, 05:37:59 pm
Agreed. Also, brownies are actively traded on BTS right now. Wouldn't be hard for someone that BM doesn't like/approve of with deep pockets to just buy a whole bunch. And be super-duper "appreciated". lol.

Wait really? After finally completing the (currently arduous) task of getting the blockchain to sync I've been trying to buy some BROWNIE.PTS for a couple days, but the orderbook screen is completely blank in my client, so I assumed that everybody was just hodling. Is it just me? I'm looking at it now.

The orderbook should look the same as this:

https://bitsharesblocks.com/asset/orderbook?asset=BROWNIE.PTS

If its blank, its probably because youre looking at BROWNIE and not BROWNIE.PTS or something like that.  I would say that the guy who created BROWNIE asset was trying to scam people, except that it was actually created first.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: unreadPostsSinceLastVisit on August 11, 2015, 05:48:50 pm
Agreed. Also, brownies are actively traded on BTS right now. Wouldn't be hard for someone that BM doesn't like/approve of with deep pockets to just buy a whole bunch. And be super-duper "appreciated". lol.

Wait really? After finally completing the (currently arduous) task of getting the blockchain to sync I've been trying to buy some BROWNIE.PTS for a couple days, but the orderbook screen is completely blank in my client, so I assumed that everybody was just hodling. Is it just me? I'm looking at it now.

The orderbook should look the same as this:

https://bitsharesblocks.com/asset/orderbook?asset=BROWNIE.PTS

If its blank, its probably because youre looking at BROWNIE and not BROWNIE.PTS or something like that.  I would say that the guy who created BROWNIE asset was trying to scam people, except that it was actually created first.

It's BROWNIE.PTS, it's just blank. Then the client usually hangs for a while and I have to force quit. I think maybe my computer just doesn't have the balls for 0.9.1?
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Akado on August 11, 2015, 05:52:21 pm
Agreed. Also, brownies are actively traded on BTS right now. Wouldn't be hard for someone that BM doesn't like/approve of with deep pockets to just buy a whole bunch. And be super-duper "appreciated". lol.

Wait really? After finally completing the (currently arduous) task of getting the blockchain to sync I've been trying to buy some BROWNIE.PTS for a couple days, but the orderbook screen is completely blank in my client, so I assumed that everybody was just hodling. Is it just me? I'm looking at it now.

The orderbook should look the same as this:

https://bitsharesblocks.com/asset/orderbook?asset=BROWNIE.PTS

If its blank, its probably because youre looking at BROWNIE and not BROWNIE.PTS or something like that.  I would say that the guy who created BROWNIE asset was trying to scam people, except that it was actually created first.

It's BROWNIE.PTS, it's just blank. Then the client usually hangs for a while and I have to force quit. I think maybe my computer just doesn't have the balls for 0.9.1?

Happens to me too in some markets.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Xeldal on August 11, 2015, 05:52:43 pm

I would say that the guy who created BROWNIE asset was trying to scam people, except that it was actually created first.

The only way you can create sub assets like BROWNIE.PTS is if you own the Parent Asset BROWNIE.  Bytemaster is the creator of both.
https://bitsharesblocks.com/asset/info?asset=BROWNIE
https://bitsharesblocks.com/asset/info?asset=BROWNIE.PTS
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: unreadPostsSinceLastVisit on August 11, 2015, 06:01:28 pm
Happens to me too in some markets.

I tried to buy some NOTES last night, barely got the order placed then had the same symptoms. Then the order expired.

But I was able to trade some bitUSD for BTS with no problems at all. Maybe it's a volume related bug? I'd say that it doesn't matter, I can just wait until 2.0, but where NOTES and BROWNIE.PTS are concerned maybe I can't...
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Ander on August 11, 2015, 06:11:01 pm

I would say that the guy who created BROWNIE asset was trying to scam people, except that it was actually created first.

The only way you can create sub assets like BROWNIE.PTS is if you own the Parent Asset BROWNIE.  Bytemaster is the creator of both.
https://bitsharesblocks.com/asset/info?asset=BROWNIE
https://bitsharesblocks.com/asset/info?asset=BROWNIE.PTS

I didnt know that. :)
I was initially tricked by the existence of BROWNIE, as others probably have been also.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Ander on August 11, 2015, 06:12:34 pm

It's BROWNIE.PTS, it's just blank. Then the client usually hangs for a while and I have to force quit. I think maybe my computer just doesn't have the balls for 0.9.1?

Happens to me too in some markets.

This happens to me too at first, but after some time it all finally appears. 

Getting my notes was incredibly hard.  I placed several small orders at different prices, and then it crashed.  Then hours later when I resynced the blockchain, I got in and put in several more orders, and then it crashed.  When I finally got in again I put in one big order near .150, was glad when it eventually got hit. :P

Yeah, we need 2.0 really badly. :P


Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: D4vegee on August 11, 2015, 06:23:50 pm

Agreed. Also, brownies are actively traded on BTS right now. Wouldn't be hard for someone that BM doesn't like/approve of with deep pockets to just buy a whole bunch. And be super-duper "appreciated". lol.
I would be extremely disappointed to see future DACs choose BROWNIE.PTS as a sharedrop over BTS. Alot of people donated whatever they could to AGS, and the idea was that future DACs that wanted the community support would sharedrop on those who funded early innovation. BROWNIE.PTS only represents the tiniest, most vocal, most talented segment of the community (or those who have Fridays at 10AM off).

Spot on.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: xeroc on August 11, 2015, 06:27:32 pm

Agreed. Also, brownies are actively traded on BTS right now. Wouldn't be hard for someone that BM doesn't like/approve of with deep pockets to just buy a whole bunch. And be super-duper "appreciated". lol.
I would be extremely disappointed to see future DACs choose BROWNIE.PTS as a sharedrop over BTS. Alot of people donated whatever they could to AGS, and the idea was that future DACs that wanted the community support would sharedrop on those who funded early innovation. BROWNIE.PTS only represents the tiniest, most vocal, most talented segment of the community (or those who have Fridays at 10AM off).

Spot on.
Not quite .. Rune's proposal is completely independent of anything that came out of AGS/PTS/BTS whatsoever .. no obligations at all .. he can freely chose whether to sharedrop at all and which asset to sharedrop .. Though I understand the issues you guys are having with using BROWNIES as sharedrop target .. distribution is not very broad (not sure if rune's desire is to sharedrop rather broad through)
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: testz on August 11, 2015, 06:39:39 pm
Side fact: BTS has 393,395,829 BTS UNCLAIMED right now .. why sharedrop those?

There are several good reasons why people might choose not to claim all their shares until the time is right:
  • Awaiting better privacy technology
  • Tax planning in some jurisdictions
  • Waiting to get confident with a wallet that works for them
  • Being too busy changing the world to mess with importing a bunch of scattered wallets from an old PTS mining farm.
So I wouldn't assume that those unmoved shares are abandoned or uninterested...  :)

Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: triox on August 11, 2015, 06:59:57 pm
Happens to me too in some markets.

I tried to buy some NOTES last night, barely got the order placed then had the same symptoms. Then the order expired.

But I was able to trade some bitUSD for BTS with no problems at all. Maybe it's a volume related bug? I'd say that it doesn't matter, I can just wait until 2.0, but where NOTES and BROWNIE.PTS are concerned maybe I can't...

You can get NOTE on blocktrades.us
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Stan on August 11, 2015, 07:10:07 pm
There are, of course, certain people who have amassed as much as a negative 1.21 GigaBrownies!

How would Doc Brown deal with that?

(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQMOMSYIPAvjUDr-Mo8OLo6xkWkmnL7eV3j2M73DRAO1QxqrxU6)

1.21 GigaBrownies!
Marty, where am I going to get that kind of power?
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: brownie.pts on August 11, 2015, 07:32:12 pm
Considering I am a subjective social currency distributed to select community members solely based on Bytemaster's personal musings, I would recommend any share drops be targeted on BTS.

HUGS for EVERYONE! :-)
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Ander on August 11, 2015, 07:34:26 pm
Happens to me too in some markets.

I tried to buy some NOTES last night, barely got the order placed then had the same symptoms. Then the order expired.

But I was able to trade some bitUSD for BTS with no problems at all. Maybe it's a volume related bug? I'd say that it doesn't matter, I can just wait until 2.0, but where NOTES and BROWNIE.PTS are concerned maybe I can't...

You can get NOTE on blocktrades.us

Wow nice I didnt know that!
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: yellowecho on August 12, 2015, 02:21:16 am
I'd very much appreciate a sharedrop from Maker so thanks for the consideration, Rune!  I probably wouldn't checkout the platform otherwise so I'm looking forward to whatever sharedrop you deem appropriate.  IMO, the best sharedrop would be from the BTS snapshot (10% PTS/ 10% AGS) which should appease everyone involved in the 'social contract' that once was.  8)
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: fav on August 12, 2015, 07:47:08 am
sharedrop on bitshares and you got a new fan :)
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Rune on August 12, 2015, 10:04:37 am
So it seems like most people prefer a proportional sharedrop on BTS. The issue I have with this kind of sharedrop is that it means we're going to give the majority of whatever amount of MKR we end up deciding to sharedrop to a few whales and exchanges (if we dont decide to exempt exchange addresses from the sharedrop).

However from my point of view I'm only able to see the value gained per person, i.e. active community member that we sharedrop on, which is why my first thought was to do a flat sharedrop to all "core members". This is basically like paying for eyeballs to look over our stuff and possibly find flaws or opportunities, as they decide whether or not to dump the MKR they received. This value would be the same no matter if it's a BTS whale or someone who holds a tiny amount of BTS, or even no BTS, so I see no compelling value proposition for letting the majority of the sharedrop go to the whales.

A proportional sharedrop only makes sense if it requires a buy in of some kind, in my opinion, as this means it will still only be whales who actually are interested in owning MKR who will take the offer, instead of just gathering MKR and then summarily dump it as soon as they can.

What are your thoughts on this? Also, lets say we did the flat sharedrop so everyone who reads this now owns 100 USD worth of MKR. What would we then gain in return? Would you consider buying more/trading MKR? Would you be active on our forums? Would you sell the MKR as soon as you saw any liquidity?

Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: profitofthegods on August 12, 2015, 10:16:18 am
I would say the proportional discount sale option would work best for you.

Choosing core members will exclude people who may be interested, and who may be more likely to be involved in multiple projects rather than being core members of any in particular one.

Straight sharedrop will most likely bring you what you want, but risks having a high cost per active / involved user you gain. Would probably get you the highest number of people though, so if you just want numbers and are willing to pay then maybe this option.

Discount investment will bring you some money and should buy you some time from those most open to getting involved.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Empirical1.2 on August 12, 2015, 10:21:32 am
It is harder to develop a BTS fork than to write a dapp for ethereum. Ethereum very clearly places developers first and cares only about providing a good toolchain for building dapps.

One the most precious and expensive resources for blockchains is talented developers like yourself. So I have to admit the fact that Ethereum is able to attract talented developers to add value to their blockchain without needing to pay them directly is pretty huge.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Ben Mason on August 12, 2015, 10:41:27 am
here's a thought.....

Could you offer a sharedrop to Bitshares forum members created before a certain date with at least 1 entry in the last month (or some other similar criteria to prevent spam accounts.)  Then request any forum members that are interested to submit their interest before a certain date along with answers to some simple questions around what they feel they can offer......

Interest
Forum participation
Dev time
Liquidity
Investment
etc.

Obviously you can't hold anyone to what they submit, but hopefully you'll be capturing the best demographic within the Bitshares network and representative of the most value to Maker.....  I think at most you'll get a few hundred of the most active and potentially valuable members of the community if you use a method like this.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Tuck Fheman on August 12, 2015, 10:56:19 am
Don't worry - he can't talk me out of it :P
Seems I didn't express myself perfectly.
It never was the intention to "talk you out" of sharedropping onto BTS .. I rather wanted to bring additional thoughts on the table.

Heck, I would definitely profit more from being sharedropped via BTS than I would with Brownies .. but that is not the point .. it is not about throwing away money ..
it is about reaching potentially interested people... And I am not certain that every BTS holder has a clue about what is going on with rune's maker .. I would even go as far as stating that brownie.pts holders are most active in the community (and you may want to sharedrop those)

Side fact: BTS has 393,395,829 BTS UNCLAIMED right now .. why sharedrop those?

Just thoughts trying to be as objective as possible with the goal to bring something new to the table ..
nuf said

I was joking - I know you weren't trying to "talk me out of it" :P

I think brownie.PTS sharedrop might be a better idea though, but as far as I can understand it is basically the list that I posted already? You get brownie.pts for attending beyond bitcoin hangouts right?

Bytemaster has been issuing brownie points to everyone he can find that has done something he "appreciates".

So that would tend to be the most active members of the community, with emphasis on those who have made (and presumably will continue to make) great contributions to the ecosystem.

The only problem I see with sharedropping to Brownie.PTS is that, as bytemaster has admitted in the past, he can't possibly know who all has contributed to the BitShares ecosystem. He hadn't even made it completely through the delegate list in the last Nullstreet Journal and probably hasn't had time to (which is just fine) to this day. 

It also means excluding members bytemaster chooses not to "appreciate" with Brownie.PTS for his own reasons, yet that person may be considered by others as having contributed to the ecosystem (see Newmine).

Not to mention those who did not receive Brownie.PTS for attending a Mumble session even though Stan marked it as distributed on the spreadsheet.  :P

Just my 2 (http://i.imgur.com/tiH8JnI.png)
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Tuck Fheman on August 12, 2015, 10:57:44 am
Considering I am a subjective social currency distributed to select community members solely based on Bytemaster's personal musings, I would recommend any share drops be targeted on BTS.

HUGS for EVERYONE! :-)

Exactly.  +5%
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Stan on August 12, 2015, 11:52:55 am
Don't worry - he can't talk me out of it :P
Seems I didn't express myself perfectly.
It never was the intention to "talk you out" of sharedropping onto BTS .. I rather wanted to bring additional thoughts on the table.

Heck, I would definitely profit more from being sharedropped via BTS than I would with Brownies .. but that is not the point .. it is not about throwing away money ..
it is about reaching potentially interested people... And I am not certain that every BTS holder has a clue about what is going on with rune's maker .. I would even go as far as stating that brownie.pts holders are most active in the community (and you may want to sharedrop those)

Side fact: BTS has 393,395,829 BTS UNCLAIMED right now .. why sharedrop those?

Just thoughts trying to be as objective as possible with the goal to bring something new to the table ..
nuf said

I was joking - I know you weren't trying to "talk me out of it" :P

I think brownie.PTS sharedrop might be a better idea though, but as far as I can understand it is basically the list that I posted already? You get brownie.pts for attending beyond bitcoin hangouts right?

Bytemaster has been issuing brownie points to everyone he can find that has done something he "appreciates".

So that would tend to be the most active members of the community, with emphasis on those who have made (and presumably will continue to make) great contributions to the ecosystem.

The only problem I see with sharedropping to Brownie.PTS is that, as bytemaster has admitted in the past, he can't possibly know who all has contributed to the BitShares ecosystem. He hadn't even made it completely through the delegate list in the last Nullstreet Journal and probably hasn't had time to (which is just fine) to this day. 

It also means excluding members bytemaster chooses not to "appreciate" with Brownie.PTS for his own reasons, yet that person may be considered by others as having contributed to the ecosystem (see Newmine).

Not to mention those who did not receive Brownie.PTS for attending a Mumble session even though Stan marked it as distributed on the spreadsheet.  :P

Just my 2 (http://i.imgur.com/tiH8JnI.png)

I just learned that all the brownies I had sent to Fuzzy to distribute were stuck in his wallet for some reason, so yesterday I sent him a new batch to his autopayment bot.  Hopefully that fixes the problem.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Empirical1.2 on August 12, 2015, 11:57:48 am
What are your thoughts on this? Also, lets say we did the flat sharedrop so everyone who reads this now owns 100 USD worth of MKR. What would we then gain in return? Would you consider buying more/trading MKR? Would you be active on our forums? Would you sell the MKR as soon as you saw any liquidity?

I would offer BTS members a 10% MKR USD deposit bonus which is released after holding MKR USD for 90 days for amounts up to $1000.

Depending on the level of interest and the amount you have to spend, you can increase or decrease the offer every couple of weeks.

This should get the few hundred active BTS members using MKR USD and give it a 6 figure CAP for an outlay of circa $10 000.

I don't know what your personal stake or the MKR CAP is, but I suspect this would increase the value of your personal MKR shares by much more than $10 000  and in the process create a solid base on which to build your USD product going forward in a very short period.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Stan on August 12, 2015, 12:04:11 pm
Another factor to consider in any sharedrop is to make sure the gifted shares vest over a period of time.
The last thing a new coin needs is a lot of selling pressure from people who got them for free and don't know what they're worth.
Even people who were glad to get them get impatient over the long wait for development and market traction.
New startup shares are hardly ever liquid for this very reason.

:)

Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: betax on August 12, 2015, 12:20:18 pm
It is harder to develop a BTS fork than to write a dapp for ethereum. Ethereum very clearly places developers first and cares only about providing a good toolchain for building dapps.

One the most precious and expensive resources for blockchains is talented developers like yourself. So I have to admit the fact that Ethereum is able to attract talented developers to add value to their blockchain without needing to pay them directly is pretty huge.

Ethereum provides a very simple way to experiment with the capabilities of the blockchain.  As the blockchain gains more momentum, more developers will experiment with Ethereum. If graphene (bitshares) provides a solid framework with better features (speed, security, etc) (Bitshares 2.0) and a simple way to do the port, it will be plenty motivation to move the contracts here.  This might not be in Bitshares, but maybe another fork, depending on CMX / Bytemaster / License etc.

Rune, thanks for your idea to sharedrop. Whatever solution you come up, it will be great. Just think how you are going to port that solidity contract to Bitshares later on. ;)

Edit: Clarification that better features will be already in Bitshares 2.0.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: phillyguy on August 12, 2015, 12:51:50 pm
I think some kind of flat rate distribution makes the most sense. You don't give away the farm, the bulk doesn't go to exchanges or whales only, and I think it helps you achieve what you are looking for: Even a small hodler of BTS will be equally incentivized to put some eyes on your project.

Best of luck with it and good to hear from you!
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: nomoreheroes7 on August 12, 2015, 12:56:36 pm
lol I still remember rune's awesome post theorizing a "hostile takeover" of bitcoin by BTS...good times. Definitely interested to see what you have brewing. Still wish you'd come back to BTS though, you beautiful genius you  :P.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: lil_jay890 on August 12, 2015, 01:29:03 pm
After reading all these answers I still believe doing a straight share drop with vesting on BTS is the best solution. 

-It increases the value of BTS by further embedding it as a viable share drop target
-People that don't necessarily troll this forum may be more helpful than what they are getting credit for.  Giving them some MKR may stimulate their interest.
-MKR gets use of established BTS uitilities (beyond bitcoin, where you can promote to the hardcore bts holders)
-Exchanges can pass the share drop on to their clients
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on August 12, 2015, 02:22:52 pm
Targeted sharedrop is the most effective if you wish to real in the cost involved in sharedropping.

In other words, drop on those who really do want to use/support the system that take an action to claim their shares.

This will allow you to cherry pick active members who actually care at all about your project and keep your balance sheet from not looking like total crap afterwards.

Lets call this.. 'smartdropping' :)

Yes.. BTS would make the most sense.  Smartdrop on BTS.

Given that it's a targeted approach it might even allow you to increase the % points for further incentive.

DISCLAIMER: I have explored the idea of sharedropping numerous times.. after tons of conversations both with people who have done it and people who have been on the receiving end of it.. I am not a fan because I think the desired results by the dropper are far from expectations. If you are going to do it.. I recommend smartdrop like I said.. however I think you would be equally be happy just with an email subscribe list.. and save yourself a lot of programming time and headaches.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: puppies on August 12, 2015, 02:42:18 pm
Why not just do a bts share drop with an upward limit.  Cap the amount any one address gets.  You could get wide distribution without breaking the bank, or over feeding the whales.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: nomoreheroes7 on August 12, 2015, 02:47:48 pm
Why not just do a bts share drop with an upward limit.  Cap the amount any one address gets.  You could get wide distribution without breaking the bank, or over feeding the whales.

I like this idea.  +5%
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: liondani on August 12, 2015, 02:52:49 pm
Why not just do a bts share drop with an upward limit.  Cap the amount any one address gets.  You could get wide distribution without breaking the bank, or over feeding the whales.

I like this idea.  +5%

me2  +5%
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: lil_jay890 on August 12, 2015, 02:57:13 pm
Why not just do a bts share drop with an upward limit.  Cap the amount any one address gets.  You could get wide distribution without breaking the bank, or over feeding the whales.

I like this idea.  +5%

me2  +5%

Problem with this... What about dead addresses or multiple accounts created by one person (Name Narwhal)  Then you end up giving the most MKR to people who are only trying to exploit a loophole.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: puppies on August 12, 2015, 03:10:02 pm
Why not just do a bts share drop with an upward limit.  Cap the amount any one address gets.  You could get wide distribution without breaking the bank, or over feeding the whales.

I like this idea.  +5%


me2  +5%

Problem with this... What about dead addresses or multiple accounts created by one person (Name Narwhal)  Then you end up giving the most MKR to people who are only trying to exploit a loophole.

The drop is proportional to bts balance up to a certain amount so empty addresses would get nothing.  Someone that had more than the cap spread out could game the system, but I don't think this would be a huge problem in practice
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: lil_jay890 on August 12, 2015, 03:19:35 pm
Why not just do a bts share drop with an upward limit.  Cap the amount any one address gets.  You could get wide distribution without breaking the bank, or over feeding the whales.

I like this idea.  +5%


me2  +5%

Problem with this... What about dead addresses or multiple accounts created by one person (Name Narwhal)  Then you end up giving the most MKR to people who are only trying to exploit a loophole.

The drop is proportional to bts balance up to a certain amount so empty addresses would get nothing.  Someone that had more than the cap spread out could game the system, but I don't think this would be a huge problem in practice

So are you saying something like this:

"Every Address with > 1000 bts will receive 10 MKR" I for one would create a bunch of accounts and spread out a large portion of my BTS to take advantage.  This would be done easily and securely and would definitely be gamed.

K.I.S.S. is the best option for this.  Keep it simple, drop on BTS, vest for 6 months, hopefully MKR grows in popularity during the vesting period and there is minimal sell pressure when shares vest.  This also allows MKR to market and grow awareness for their recently dropped coins.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: nomoreheroes7 on August 12, 2015, 03:28:19 pm
So are you saying something like this:

"Every Address with > 1000 bts will receive 10 MKR" I for one would create a bunch of accounts and spread out a large portion of my BTS to take advantage.  This would be done easily and securely and would definitely be gamed.

I would imagine the drop is proportional to BTS held. Say x% of BTS held per address up to a max of say 1,000,000 BTS. Empty addresses get nothing. The only ones who might game it would be those with like 5 million BTS split across a bunch of accounts. Doubt that's going to be a huge problem though. And it would make it so exchanges like BTC38 don't get credited for their millions upon millions of BTS held (unless they too split accounts? not sure).

Hell you could even make the sharedrop effective as of stake held yesterday, before we even thought of this, hah.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: mint chocolate chip on August 12, 2015, 03:32:50 pm
You could also drop something on those who supported your endeavor here... Cryptohedge.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: puppies on August 12, 2015, 03:38:18 pm
Why not just do a bts share drop with an upward limit.  Cap the amount any one address gets.  You could get wide distribution without breaking the bank, or over feeding the whales.

I like this idea.  +5%


me2  +5%

Problem with this... What about dead addresses or multiple accounts created by one person (Name Narwhal)  Then you end up giving the most MKR to people who are only trying to exploit a loophole.

The drop is proportional to bts balance up to a certain amount so empty addresses would get nothing.  Someone that had more than the cap spread out could game the system, but I don't think this would be a huge problem in practice

So are you saying something like this:

"Every Address with > 1000 bts will receive 10 MKR" I for one would create a bunch of accounts and spread out a large portion of my BTS to take advantage.  This would be done easily and securely and would definitely be gamed.

K.I.S.S. is the best option for this.  Keep it simple, drop on BTS, vest for 6 months, hopefully MKR grows in popularity during the vesting period and there is minimal sell pressure when shares vest.  This also allows MKR to market and grow awareness for their recently dropped coins.

I don't see a reason for a minimum.  I was thinking a proportional share drop with an upward cap.

The only people with an incentive to split their balances would be those with balances above the cap.  .i.e whales. 

If we really think that is going to be a problem, we can use a previous block to generate the genesis, so the whales wouldn't have a chance to split accounts.

***edit***  nomoreheros beat me to both points. lol
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: lil_jay890 on August 12, 2015, 03:45:47 pm
So are you saying something like this:

"Every Address with > 1000 bts will receive 10 MKR" I for one would create a bunch of accounts and spread out a large portion of my BTS to take advantage.  This would be done easily and securely and would definitely be gamed.

I would imagine the drop is proportional to BTS held. Say x% of BTS held per address up to a max of say 1,000,000 BTS. Empty addresses get nothing. The only ones who might game it would be those with like 5 million BTS split across a bunch of accounts. Doubt that's going to be a huge problem though. And it would make it so exchanges like BTC38 don't get credited for their millions upon millions of BTS held (unless they too split accounts? not sure).

Hell you could even make the sharedrop effective as of stake held yesterday, before we even thought of this, hah.

It's a weird situation that we are in here.  Rune wants support from our community, but doesn't plan on using the BTS technology from what I understand.  He could create an asset, and post on the forum for people to claim the asset.  He could even use the Brownie pt google spread sheet that Fuzzy created to get a list of active BTS members.  Since he wants support from more vocal members, this would be a good sharedrop target.  Send the newly created asset to the members on the spreadsheet from say the 8/7/15 mumble and let them claim their MKR using the newly issued asset.

I still don't think its a big deal if exchanges get the share drop... They can pass the dropped tokens on to their customers. 
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Stan on August 12, 2015, 03:52:32 pm
Why not just do a bts share drop with an upward limit.  Cap the amount any one address gets.  You could get wide distribution without breaking the bank, or over feeding the whales.

I like this idea.  +5%


me2  +5%

Problem with this... What about dead addresses or multiple accounts created by one person (Name Narwhal)  Then you end up giving the most MKR to people who are only trying to exploit a loophole.

The drop is proportional to bts balance up to a certain amount so empty addresses would get nothing.  Someone that had more than the cap spread out could game the system, but I don't think this would be a huge problem in practice

So are you saying something like this:

"Every Address with > 1000 bts will receive 10 MKR" I for one would create a bunch of accounts and spread out a large portion of my BTS to take advantage.  This would be done easily and securely and would definitely be gamed.

K.I.S.S. is the best option for this.  Keep it simple, drop on BTS, vest for 6 months, hopefully MKR grows in popularity during the vesting period and there is minimal sell pressure when shares vest.  This also allows MKR to market and grow awareness for their recently dropped coins.

I don't see a reason for a minimum.  I was thinking a proportional share drop with an upward cap.

The only people with an incentive to split their balances would be those with balances above the cap.  .i.e whales. 

If we really think that is going to be a problem, we can use a previous block to generate the genesis, so the whales wouldn't have a chance to split accounts.

***edit***  nomoreheros beat me to both points. lol

Interesting attitude about whales.
The guys most likely to have the influence and resources and HODLing power necessary to make your  project a success.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: puppies on August 12, 2015, 04:08:52 pm
That's true Stan.

You could conceivably drop only on addresses holding let's say 5M+ bts.  I'm not sure which strategy would be more effective. 

Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: EstefanTT on August 12, 2015, 04:42:16 pm
Maybe a proportional share drop will give too much to some whale who just care about the investment and not enough to some highly motivated members who are not able to buy more bts ...

BUT, it's the better way to be fair with a whole community.

Choosing to use pts, ags, browies, proportional share drop with cap or a mix of them will make some people unhappy. That's not, IMHO, the goal of your operation.



Anyway, if the proportional share drop eventually not please you, I would recommend share dropping on blond male members, between 34 and 35 years old, born in Belgium and big fan of BitShares ....  :P :P
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Stan on August 12, 2015, 05:04:21 pm
So it seems like most people prefer a proportional sharedrop on BTS. The issue I have with this kind of sharedrop is that it means we're going to give the majority of whatever amount of MKR we end up deciding to sharedrop to a few whales and exchanges (if we dont decide to exempt exchange addresses from the sharedrop).

However from my point of view I'm only able to see the value gained per person, i.e. active community member that we sharedrop on, which is why my first thought was to do a flat sharedrop to all "core members". This is basically like paying for eyeballs to look over our stuff and possibly find flaws or opportunities, as they decide whether or not to dump the MKR they received. This value would be the same no matter if it's a BTS whale or someone who holds a tiny amount of BTS, or even no BTS, so I see no compelling value proposition for letting the majority of the sharedrop go to the whales.

A proportional sharedrop only makes sense if it requires a buy in of some kind, in my opinion, as this means it will still only be whales who actually are interested in owning MKR who will take the offer, instead of just gathering MKR and then summarily dump it as soon as they can.

What are your thoughts on this? Also, lets say we did the flat sharedrop so everyone who reads this now owns 100 USD worth of MKR. What would we then gain in return? Would you consider buying more/trading MKR? Would you be active on our forums? Would you sell the MKR as soon as you saw any liquidity?

(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/352/470/1b5.gif)
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Ander on August 12, 2015, 05:24:21 pm
So it seems like most people prefer a proportional sharedrop on BTS. The issue I have with this kind of sharedrop is that it means we're going to give the majority of whatever amount of MKR we end up deciding to sharedrop to a few whales and exchanges (if we dont decide to exempt exchange addresses from the sharedrop).

However from my point of view I'm only able to see the value gained per person, i.e. active community member that we sharedrop on, which is why my first thought was to do a flat sharedrop to all "core members". This is basically like paying for eyeballs to look over our stuff and possibly find flaws or opportunities, as they decide whether or not to dump the MKR they received. This value would be the same no matter if it's a BTS whale or someone who holds a tiny amount of BTS, or even no BTS, so I see no compelling value proposition for letting the majority of the sharedrop go to the whales.

I guess you actually should sharedrop on Brownie.PTS then.  (As much as I wish sharedrops would go to BTS, it looks like your target audience.  As long as you are fine giving 10x the stake to dev team members vs forum regulars). 

Alternately, create a post allowing people to sign up to be included, and sharedrop equally on all of them.  Need to have a requirement like at least 'member' post count to avoid people getting several claims by spamming with newbie accounts.


Quote
What are your thoughts on this? Also, lets say we did the flat sharedrop so everyone who reads this now owns 100 USD worth of MKR. What would we then gain in return? Would you consider buying more/trading MKR? Would you be active on our forums? Would you sell the MKR as soon as you saw any liquidity?
I would definitely check it out, and would trade it (sell pumps/buy dumps), not just dump it at the first chance. 
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: clayop on August 12, 2015, 05:45:21 pm
Agree with Ander. Brownie holders' commitment level is higher than BTS. Also no exchange is included.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: lil_jay890 on August 12, 2015, 05:52:35 pm
Agree with Ander. Brownie holders' commitment level is higher than BTS. Also no exchange is included.

That is completely false and is a generalization... Brownie holders are cherry picked based on what BM feels is important.  His ideas of importance may be vastly different than what is actually valuable to BTS.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Rune on August 12, 2015, 06:07:48 pm
The sybil problem with whale limit is also a concern of mine.

How about a flat sharedrop that requires 1) that you are a core community member who received brownie.pts 2) you have at least 10k BTS (as an example) and prove this when you apply for the sharedrop? This way it would still be an exclusive for people who own BTS only, and would increase the perceived value of BTS. However I don't know if there's an easy way to prove and verify a PTS and BTS balance, obviously it shouldn't require too much manpower to administer the sharedrop either. Perhaps a trusted community member would be willing to take charge of administering the sharedrop?
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: mf-tzo on August 12, 2015, 06:07:55 pm
I am obviously fine with whatever you  decide but I would think that the best sharedrop would obviously be mostly to BTS, then Brownie.PTS  but also AGS and old PTS. This way you attract everyone. Core Devs, active members, users, donators and people with vision. 

AGS / old PTS also may not even claim their shares since they won't risk to expose their private keys right?

 
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Ander on August 12, 2015, 06:10:58 pm
Agree with Ander. Brownie holders' commitment level is higher than BTS. Also no exchange is included.

That is completely false and is a generalization... Brownie holders are cherry picked based on what BM feels is important.  His ideas of importance may be vastly different than what is actually valuable to BTS.

I should reiterate that I prefer BTS sharedrop not Brownie.  Its just that Brownie matched up decently (not perfectly) with what he was saying he was targetting.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: bobmaloney on August 12, 2015, 06:17:46 pm
I am obviously fine with whatever you  decide but I would think that the best sharedrop would obviously be mostly to BTS, then Brownie.PTS  but also AGS and old PTS. This way you attract everyone. Core Devs, active members, users, donators and people with vision. 

AGS / old PTS also may not even claim their shares since they won't risk to expose their private keys right?

Agreed:

I'm going to go ahead and throw out the following suggestion from the standpoint that it:

1. Casts the widest net

2. Offers the possibility of bringing back the attention of some early supporters that recognized the need and importance of something like bitUSD (but have drifted away due to numerous reasons) to Bitshares, while introducing them to Maker.

5% - PTS
5% - AGS
5% - BTS
5% - Brownie.PTS

The demographics of each group listed above offers a unique set of potential benefits/qualities and that it would be wise to consider what may be gained from including all of them.

Obviously, the recommendations from those CURRENTLY in the forum for this single snapshot of time will side heavily on BTS/Brownie.PTS (and which I would personally gain most from) - but this community has seen plenty of interest and early support from individuals who could probably be found more heavily in PTS/AGS as well.

My .02 BTS


*The only keys I would recommend excluding from this are Cryptsy's PTS keys (if they are known).

I was fortunate enough to not have any PTS on Cryptsy during any snapshots, but I still don't see how there wasn't more uproar about such outright and blatant theft.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: liondani on August 12, 2015, 06:27:44 pm
However I don't know if there's an easy way to prove and verify a PTS and BTS balance,

let us vote a delegate you create maybe?
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: triox on August 13, 2015, 01:14:52 am
To put this in the nicest terms possible: have you people completely lost your fucking minds? Suggesting a sharedrop on ancient "AGS/PTS" that's supposed to be abandoned and worthless, and on BM's stupid toy that he has absolute control over ??

And how does that even make any logical sense? PTS is the demographic of random Chinese miners, and AGS are people who once invested in something two years ago, woo-hoo. How does sharedroping on them accomplish anything from Rune's POV?

I could maybe understand targeting some true community token, if we had anything like that, a'la LTBcoin - at least LTB has strict and known rules on it's releasing. But this "Brownie" nonsense is a centralized private monstrosity doled out by one capricious guy who can recall them from anyone at any point or assign 99% extra supply to himself.

Now this joke of a coin gets a sharedrop from Underwood's project and the gullible idiots are cheering because they feel they're part of the inside club. All this talk about openness and inclusivity and community values  goes out the window when there's a glimmer of chance for some extra cream from some hypothetical vapour of a project.
I've been here for over a year and it's like every step of the way this community is begging to both get themselves fleeced and further tank the project's perception and price.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Ander on August 13, 2015, 01:32:32 am
To put this in the nicest terms possible: have you people completely lost your fucking minds? Suggesting a sharedrop on ancient "AGS/PTS" that's supposed to be abandoned and worthless, and on BM's stupid toy that he has absolute control over ??

And how does that even make any logical sense? PTS is the demographic of random Chinese miners, and AGS are people who once invested in something two years ago, woo-hoo. How does sharedroping on them accomplish anything from Rune's POV?


I agree.

Also, by sharedropping on PTS you get to give free shares to cryptsy, who will steal the drop from their users.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: lil_jay890 on August 13, 2015, 01:41:40 am
To put this in the nicest terms possible: have you people completely lost your fucking minds? Suggesting a sharedrop on ancient "AGS/PTS" that's supposed to be abandoned and worthless, and on BM's stupid toy that he has absolute control over ??

And how does that even make any logical sense? PTS is the demographic of random Chinese miners, and AGS are people who once invested in something two years ago, woo-hoo. How does sharedroping on them accomplish anything from Rune's POV?

I could maybe understand targeting some true community token, if we had anything like that, a'la LTBcoin - at least LTB has strict and known rules on it's releasing. But this "Brownie" nonsense is a centralized private monstrosity doled out by one capricious guy who can recall them from anyone at any point or assign 99% extra supply to himself.

Now this joke of a coin gets a sharedrop from Underwood's project and the gullible idiots are cheering because they feel they're part of the inside club. All this talk about openness and inclusivity and community values  goes out the window when there's a glimmer of chance for some extra cream from some hypothetical vapour of a project.
I've been here for over a year and it's like every step of the way this community is begging to both get themselves fleeced and further tank the project's perception and price.

Agree completely. Dan talked so much of freedom and decentralization... This brownie distribution that he has 100% control of flies in the face of much of what he has preached.

Brownies may have a place for dans or cryptonomex projects, but they should not be considered as a viable target for outside projects.

I think everyone's tune would be much different if bts cap was around the highs.  Some people are so underwater on their bts investment that they would cut off their left ear to get back to even.  These deals represent a light of hope for ill timed investors.  That light seems to be blinding many of their original Bitshares principles.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Stan on August 13, 2015, 01:55:46 am
...
I could maybe understand targeting some true community token, if we had anything like that, a'la LTBcoin - at least LTB has strict and known rules on it's releasing. But this "Brownie" nonsense is a centralized private monstrosity doled out by one capricious guy who can recall them from anyone at any point or assign 99% extra supply to himself.

Now this joke of a coin gets a sharedrop from Underwood's project and the gullible idiots are cheering because they feel they're part of the inside club. All this talk about openness and inclusivity and community values  goes out the window when there's a glimmer of chance for some extra cream from some hypothetical vapour of a project.
I've been here for over a year and it's like every step of the way this community is begging to both get themselves fleeced and further tank the project's perception and price.

Agree completely. Dan talked so much of freedom and decentralization... This brownie distribution that he has 100% control of flies in the face of much of what he has preached.

Brownies may have a place for dans or cryptonomex projects, but they should not be considered as a viable target for outside projects.

I think everyone's tune would be much different if bts cap was around the highs.  Some people are so underwater on their bts investment that they would cut off their left ear to get back to even.  These deals represent a light of hope for ill timed investors.  That light seems to be blinding many of their original Bitshares principles.


Since Underwood desires to give extra recognition to boost the enthusiasm of active contributors
And Dan's thank you note ledger is the most comprehensive quantitative documentation of such people that exists
Then it makes total sense for John to make use of that demographic mailing list.

I can't think of a better criteria for who should get a share than those who helped build the ecosystem.
The challenge is in determining how helpful each someone has been to the cause.
This is inherently subjective in any application where there is a wide range of ways in which supporters contribute.
There is no pre-defined formula that is sufficiently complete.

Managers seeking to acknowledge contributors to their mission always have this problem.
The brownie method is more open and quantitative than most performance reviews I have had in my career.

In the end, such things don't have to meet any criteria other than what suits the giver of the gift.
In this case, Underwood decided that Bytemaster's thank you note system was as good a metric as any.

Parable of the Generous Employer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Workers_in_the_Vineyard)
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Empirical1.2 on August 13, 2015, 01:58:49 am
Now this joke of a coin gets a sharedrop from Underwood's project and the gullible idiots are cheering because they feel they're part of the inside club. All this talk about openness and inclusivity and community values  goes out the window when there's a glimmer of chance for some extra cream from some hypothetical vapour of a project.
I've been here for over a year and   it's like every step of the way this community is begging to both get themselves fleeced and further tank the project's perception and price.

Careful, you don't want to lose your brownies...  ;) 

I may also seize brownie points from any account if you fall out of favor and anyone who complains in any way about how Brownie Points are issued or how I use Brownie Points is certainly not in my favor and may lose any Brownie Points they have earned.

 :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X


Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: clayop on August 13, 2015, 04:08:57 am
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/352/470/1b5.gif)

 +5%
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: starspirit on August 13, 2015, 06:39:55 am
...
I could maybe understand targeting some true community token, if we had anything like that, a'la LTBcoin - at least LTB has strict and known rules on it's releasing. But this "Brownie" nonsense is a centralized private monstrosity doled out by one capricious guy who can recall them from anyone at any point or assign 99% extra supply to himself.

Now this joke of a coin gets a sharedrop from Underwood's project and the gullible idiots are cheering because they feel they're part of the inside club. All this talk about openness and inclusivity and community values  goes out the window when there's a glimmer of chance for some extra cream from some hypothetical vapour of a project.
I've been here for over a year and it's like every step of the way this community is begging to both get themselves fleeced and further tank the project's perception and price.

Agree completely. Dan talked so much of freedom and decentralization... This brownie distribution that he has 100% control of flies in the face of much of what he has preached.

Brownies may have a place for dans or cryptonomex projects, but they should not be considered as a viable target for outside projects.

I think everyone's tune would be much different if bts cap was around the highs.  Some people are so underwater on their bts investment that they would cut off their left ear to get back to even.  These deals represent a light of hope for ill timed investors.  That light seems to be blinding many of their original Bitshares principles.


Since Underwood desires to give extra recognition to boost the enthusiasm of active contributors
And Dan's thank you note ledger is the most comprehensive quantitative documentation of such people that exists
Then it makes total sense for John to make use of that demographic mailing list.

I can't think of a better criteria for who should get a share than those who helped build the ecosystem.
The challenge is in determining how helpful each someone has been to the cause.
This is inherently subjective in any application where there is a wide range of ways in which supporters contribute.
There is no pre-defined formula that is sufficiently complete.

Managers seeking to acknowledge contributors to their mission always have this problem.
The brownie method is more open and quantitative than most performance reviews I have had in my career.

In the end, such things don't have to meet any criteria other than what suits the giver of the gift.
In this case, Underwood decided that Bytemaster's thank you note system was as good a metric as any.

Parable of the Generous Employer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Workers_in_the_Vineyard)

I believe that anybody ought to be able to create whatever token of appreciation they like, and distribute it however they like, as a target for their own gifts or rewards. However, unless such tokens are non-tradeable and non-transferable, it seems that rewards dropped on such a token might spill over to those that have simply bought their way in rather than having made any genuine contribution or even offering any expected future contribution. Ultimately it could just become like any tradeable token as re-distribution in the secondary market over time dominates any initial or primary distribution. However its only early days for BROWNIES yet, so at this stage the distribution is probably very close to initial.

Also, any issuer of a share drop can use whatever system they believe best suits their purpose. However, if the distribution of the target tokens on which the share drop will occur is highly discretionary and controlled by a different entity, there is at least some risk of ending up with distribution outcomes that don't match the original intentions of the share-dropper. It might be best to use a historic date to prevent such unexpected changes. So although there is never a perfect system and some compromise is always necessary, I expect these factors would all be considered carefully.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: triox on August 13, 2015, 07:55:21 am
...
I could maybe understand targeting some true community token, if we had anything like that, a'la LTBcoin - at least LTB has strict and known rules on it's releasing. But this "Brownie" nonsense is a centralized private monstrosity doled out by one capricious guy who can recall them from anyone at any point or assign 99% extra supply to himself.

Now this joke of a coin gets a sharedrop from Underwood's project and the gullible idiots are cheering because they feel they're part of the inside club. All this talk about openness and inclusivity and community values  goes out the window when there's a glimmer of chance for some extra cream from some hypothetical vapour of a project.
I've been here for over a year and it's like every step of the way this community is begging to both get themselves fleeced and further tank the project's perception and price.

Agree completely. Dan talked so much of freedom and decentralization... This brownie distribution that he has 100% control of flies in the face of much of what he has preached.

Brownies may have a place for dans or cryptonomex projects, but they should not be considered as a viable target for outside projects.

I think everyone's tune would be much different if bts cap was around the highs.  Some people are so underwater on their bts investment that they would cut off their left ear to get back to even.  These deals represent a light of hope for ill timed investors.  That light seems to be blinding many of their original Bitshares principles.


Since Underwood desires to give extra recognition to boost the enthusiasm of active contributors
And Dan's thank you note ledger is the most comprehensive quantitative documentation of such people that exists
Then it makes total sense for John to make use of that demographic mailing list.

I can't think of a better criteria for who should get a share than those who helped build the ecosystem.
The challenge is in determining how helpful each someone has been to the cause.
This is inherently subjective in any application where there is a wide range of ways in which supporters contribute.
There is no pre-defined formula that is sufficiently complete.

Managers seeking to acknowledge contributors to their mission always have this problem.
The brownie method is more open and quantitative than most performance reviews I have had in my career.

In the end, such things don't have to meet any criteria other than what suits the giver of the gift.
In this case, Underwood decided that Bytemaster's thank you note system was as good a metric as any.

Parable of the Generous Employer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Workers_in_the_Vineyard)

I believe that anybody ought to be able to create whatever token of appreciation they like, and distribute it however they like, as a target for their own gifts or rewards. However, unless such tokens are non-tradeable and non-transferable, it seems that rewards dropped on such a token might spill over to those that have simply bought their way in rather than having made any genuine contribution or even offering any expected future contribution. Ultimately it could just become like any tradeable token as re-distribution in the secondary market over time dominates any initial or primary distribution. However its only early days for BROWNIES yet, so at this stage the distribution is probably very close to initial.


That's a good point. The Brownie story only makes sense if they are non-transferable.
I myself have some Brownies, even though:
a) Bytemaster never gave any to me and probably doesn't "appreciate" me at all at this point
b) my "contributions" mainly consist of bitching on the forum
How does that fit the bill of most active and valuable demographic. As long as Brownies are tradeable they're a direct competition to BTS.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: xeroc on August 13, 2015, 08:00:40 am
That's a good point. The Brownie story only makes sense if they are non-transferable.
I myself have some Brownies, even though:
a) Bytemaster never gave any to me and probably doesn't "appreciate" me at all at this point
b) my "contributions" mainly consist of bitching on the forum
How does that fit the bill of most active and valuable demographic. As long as Brownies are tradeable they're a direct competition to BTS.
- You payed BTS to someone that BM appreciates
- you can not use BROWNIES as collateral (even though I like the sound if this idea) - hence, no competition to BTS .. just a different "community"/"use base"
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: triox on August 13, 2015, 09:06:37 am
That's a good point. The Brownie story only makes sense if they are non-transferable.
I myself have some Brownies, even though:
a) Bytemaster never gave any to me and probably doesn't "appreciate" me at all at this point
b) my "contributions" mainly consist of bitching on the forum
How does that fit the bill of most active and valuable demographic. As long as Brownies are tradeable they're a direct competition to BTS.
- You payed BTS to someone that BM appreciates
- you can not use BROWNIES as collateral (even though I like the sound if this idea) - hence, no competition to BTS .. just a different "community"/"use base"

It clearly IS competing against BTS as a sharedrop target and against BTS market value.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: xeroc on August 13, 2015, 09:17:00 am
It clearly IS competing against BTS as a sharedrop target and against BTS market value.

Actually there is one argument AGAINST using BTS as sharedrop target no-one brought up yet:
If you can recall PTS prices, what exactly happened after 28th of february last year?
BTS(X) market cap was effectively taken out of the PTS market cap at the time of the snapshot and the priced tanked big time.
Because BTS are used as collateral, this may result in ... you guess it .. a black swan (of course only if the airdropping market cap is large vs. BTS's market cap)

Also, IMHO, the goal of a snapshot is NOT to drive the price up (because it will go down again eventually) .... but to honor a community.

In my opinion, snapshots nowadays only make sense if you do them without further notice .. that way you
* do not drive price up
* prevent a price tanking at the time of the snapshot
* while you are still able to drop on your valuable demographic

Just my thoughts ..
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: triox on August 13, 2015, 09:40:46 am
It clearly IS competing against BTS as a sharedrop target and against BTS market value.

In my opinion, snapshots nowadays only make sense if you do them without further notice .. that way you
* do not drive price up
* prevent a price tanking at the time of the snapshot
* while you are still able to drop on your valuable demographic

Just my thoughts ..

I agree. The fact that the IDentbit has not set a snapshot date to a day prior to the announcement tells me that so far it's mainly a clever price pumping scheme.

But what I also meant with Brownie competing against BTS value is the direct price pressure from people selling BTS for Brownie.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: xeroc on August 13, 2015, 09:55:31 am
But what I also meant with Brownie competing against BTS value is the direct price pressure from people selling BTS for Brownie.
True .. but a) that is free market .. and b) people wanting BROWNIES must first buy BTS :D
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Stan on August 13, 2015, 12:07:11 pm
...
I could maybe understand targeting some true community token, if we had anything like that, a'la LTBcoin - at least LTB has strict and known rules on it's releasing. But this "Brownie" nonsense is a centralized private monstrosity doled out by one capricious guy who can recall them from anyone at any point or assign 99% extra supply to himself.

Now this joke of a coin gets a sharedrop from Underwood's project and the gullible idiots are cheering because they feel they're part of the inside club. All this talk about openness and inclusivity and community values  goes out the window when there's a glimmer of chance for some extra cream from some hypothetical vapour of a project.
I've been here for over a year and it's like every step of the way this community is begging to both get themselves fleeced and further tank the project's perception and price.

Agree completely. Dan talked so much of freedom and decentralization... This brownie distribution that he has 100% control of flies in the face of much of what he has preached.

Brownies may have a place for dans or cryptonomex projects, but they should not be considered as a viable target for outside projects.

I think everyone's tune would be much different if bts cap was around the highs.  Some people are so underwater on their bts investment that they would cut off their left ear to get back to even.  These deals represent a light of hope for ill timed investors.  That light seems to be blinding many of their original Bitshares principles.


Since Underwood desires to give extra recognition to boost the enthusiasm of active contributors
And Dan's thank you note ledger is the most comprehensive quantitative documentation of such people that exists
Then it makes total sense for John to make use of that demographic mailing list.

I can't think of a better criteria for who should get a share than those who helped build the ecosystem.
The challenge is in determining how helpful each someone has been to the cause.
This is inherently subjective in any application where there is a wide range of ways in which supporters contribute.
There is no pre-defined formula that is sufficiently complete.

Managers seeking to acknowledge contributors to their mission always have this problem.
The brownie method is more open and quantitative than most performance reviews I have had in my career.

In the end, such things don't have to meet any criteria other than what suits the giver of the gift.
In this case, Underwood decided that Bytemaster's thank you note system was as good a metric as any.

Parable of the Generous Employer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Workers_in_the_Vineyard)

I believe that anybody ought to be able to create whatever token of appreciation they like, and distribute it however they like, as a target for their own gifts or rewards. However, unless such tokens are non-tradeable and non-transferable, it seems that rewards dropped on such a token might spill over to those that have simply bought their way in rather than having made any genuine contribution or even offering any expected future contribution. Ultimately it could just become like any tradeable token as re-distribution in the secondary market over time dominates any initial or primary distribution. However its only early days for BROWNIES yet, so at this stage the distribution is probably very close to initial.


That's a good point. The Brownie story only makes sense if they are non-transferable.
I myself have some Brownies, even though:
a) Bytemaster never gave any to me and probably doesn't "appreciate" me at all at this point
b) my "contributions" mainly consist of bitching on the forum
How does that fit the bill of most active and valuable demographic. As long as Brownies are tradeable they're a direct competition to BTS.

BM has said that anyone who buys Brownie.PTS is also a genuine contributor by giving value to what others have earned. 

So anyone can contribute by doing appreciated work or paying cash to indicate that you
appreciate tokens of appreciation enough to make them appreciate appreciably.

Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Stan on August 13, 2015, 12:14:30 pm
It clearly IS competing against BTS as a sharedrop target and against BTS market value.

Actually there is one argument AGAINST using BTS as sharedrop target no-one brought up yet:
If you can recall PTS prices, what exactly happened after 28th of february last year?
BTS(X) market cap was effectively taken out of the PTS market cap at the time of the snapshot and the priced tanked big time.
Because BTS are used as collateral, this may result in ... you guess it .. a black swan (of course only if the airdropping market cap is large vs. BTS's market cap)

Also, IMHO, the goal of a snapshot is NOT to drive the price up (because it will go down again eventually) .... but to honor a community.

In my opinion, snapshots nowadays only make sense if you do them without further notice .. that way you
* do not drive price up
* prevent a price tanking at the time of the snapshot
* while you are still able to drop on your valuable demographic

Just my thoughts ..

I guess having the possibility of a snapshot that could occur at any time would encourage folks not to leave their BTS on some external exchange and not to sell BTS even temporarily just to fool around promiscuously with other coins...
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: xeroc on August 13, 2015, 12:16:33 pm
It clearly IS competing against BTS as a sharedrop target and against BTS market value.

Actually there is one argument AGAINST using BTS as sharedrop target no-one brought up yet:
If you can recall PTS prices, what exactly happened after 28th of february last year?
BTS(X) market cap was effectively taken out of the PTS market cap at the time of the snapshot and the priced tanked big time.
Because BTS are used as collateral, this may result in ... you guess it .. a black swan (of course only if the airdropping market cap is large vs. BTS's market cap)

Also, IMHO, the goal of a snapshot is NOT to drive the price up (because it will go down again eventually) .... but to honor a community.

In my opinion, snapshots nowadays only make sense if you do them without further notice .. that way you
* do not drive price up
* prevent a price tanking at the time of the snapshot
* while you are still able to drop on your valuable demographic

Just my thoughts ..

I guess having the possibility of a snapshot that could occur at any time would encourage folks not to leave their BTS on some external exchange and not to sell BTS even temporarily just to fool around promiscuously with other coins...

^^ THIS! but mainly because of what I stated in my previous post.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Ander on August 13, 2015, 06:19:20 pm
A sharedrop happening at a random time still results in a value drop once it is announced that the sharedrop cutoff is passed, which still results in a shock to the internal markets. 

The only difference it makes is that it allows insiders who know the date of the sharedrop to benefit greatly at the expense of everyone else, by buying BTS right before they do the  sharedrop and then dumping right after it.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Ben Mason on August 13, 2015, 06:57:09 pm
A sharedrop happening at a random time still results in a value drop once it is announced that the sharedrop cutoff is passed, which still results in a shock to the internal markets. 

The only difference it makes is that it allows insiders who know the date of the sharedrop to benefit greatly at the expense of everyone else, by buying BTS right before they do the  sharedrop and then dumping right after it.

That's a really good point. Perhaps the best solution, as already discussed, boils down to the developer choosing his targets very wisely!
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: puppies on August 13, 2015, 07:06:58 pm
A sharedrop happening at a random time still results in a value drop once it is announced that the sharedrop cutoff is passed, which still results in a shock to the internal markets. 

The only difference it makes is that it allows insiders who know the date of the sharedrop to benefit greatly at the expense of everyone else, by buying BTS right before they do the  sharedrop and then dumping right after it.

Of course it depends upon who knows ahead of time, and what their motivation is.

If the only person with pre-knowledge is the dev, then I wouldn't consider it a great threat.

After all I would consider the purpose of the sharedrop to be actually getting the coins in the hands of potential adopters. 
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: CLains on August 13, 2015, 08:07:45 pm
Sync all share-drops with 2.0 transition :)
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: tbone on August 13, 2015, 08:53:01 pm
I know that some here trade in and out of BTS.  But personally I haven't sold a single share since I began accumulating in May.  And although I've gained enough of a comfort level with the current web wallet to keep a good portion of my holdings in it, I feel that I have no choice but to also keep a not-so-insignificant amount of BTS on the exchanges.  At least until 2.0.  In the interim, I am fine with share drop not being announced.  I just think people need to know which exchanges honor share drops and which might not.   

I assume CCEDK would do so.  I seem to recall hearing Poloniex has been good on this front as well.  What about Bittrex and BTC38?  I won't even ask about BTER since anyone with BTS there is just asking to lose it!



It clearly IS competing against BTS as a sharedrop target and against BTS market value.

Actually there is one argument AGAINST using BTS as sharedrop target no-one brought up yet:
If you can recall PTS prices, what exactly happened after 28th of february last year?
BTS(X) market cap was effectively taken out of the PTS market cap at the time of the snapshot and the priced tanked big time.
Because BTS are used as collateral, this may result in ... you guess it .. a black swan (of course only if the airdropping market cap is large vs. BTS's market cap)

Also, IMHO, the goal of a snapshot is NOT to drive the price up (because it will go down again eventually) .... but to honor a community.

In my opinion, snapshots nowadays only make sense if you do them without further notice .. that way you
* do not drive price up
* prevent a price tanking at the time of the snapshot
* while you are still able to drop on your valuable demographic

Just my thoughts ..

I guess having the possibility of a snapshot that could occur at any time would encourage folks not to leave their BTS on some external exchange and not to sell BTS even temporarily just to fool around promiscuously with other coins...
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Stan on August 14, 2015, 12:33:04 am
A sharedrop happening at a random time still results in a value drop once it is announced that the sharedrop cutoff is passed, which still results in a shock to the internal markets. 

The only difference it makes is that it allows insiders who know the date of the sharedrop to benefit greatly at the expense of everyone else, by buying BTS right before they do the  sharedrop and then dumping right after it.

Of course it depends upon who knows ahead of time, and what their motivation is.

If the only person with pre-knowledge is the dev, then I wouldn't consider it a great threat.

After all I would consider the purpose of the sharedrop to be actually getting the coins in the hands of potential adopters.

The way I had envisioned it, the block would be selected automagically a week or two before launch in some provably honest way.  The exact details are left as an exercise for the student.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: dritz3r on August 14, 2015, 10:44:31 am
@Stan
Yes you need to honor the community. Fuck the investors. As a AGS investor without BTS, I was little bit late with my xx BTC investment , I feel like bigger idiot with every new visit to these forum. I invested because you promise me part of all beautiful future DACs. From all that promises I only received some NOTEs. Yes I collect some vasted BTS but you know that was not much, less than 1 BTC. Thank you anyway.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Stan on August 14, 2015, 01:26:33 pm
@Stan
Yes you need to honor the community. Fuck the investors. As a AGS investor without BTS, I was little bit late with my xx BTC investment , I feel like bigger idiot with every new visit to these forum. I invested because you promise me part of all beautiful future DACs. From all that promises I only received some NOTEs. Yes I collect some vasted BTS but you know that was not much, less than 1 BTC. Thank you anyway.

My brother, mother, and friends and I all donated a LOT in AGS post 2/28/14 and we are all delighted with the appreciation shown.
AGSers were given a piece of the BTS action during the merger and sharedrops on BTS therefore sharedrop on PTS/AGS as well (which was a key point of the merger).

Now, we are seeing that some developers want to build on top of BTS for the network effect and others still want separate chains so they can do something incompatible with BTS.  So the original vision is still intact.  Ownership in lots of DACs.  Where else can you get anything remotely like this?

Better still, multiple developers are giving EXTRA percentages to encourage EXTRA participation in the community.

You still have BTS and NOTES and PLS and Identabits and, oops almost slipped up, others to come.

And so do my mother and brother and friends.   :)
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: dritz3r on August 14, 2015, 02:45:05 pm
Thank you very much Stan. You are clever guy and you know that post 2/28/14 investors are biggest losers here. Can we at least get 1 Brownie.PTS or maybe half? We even didn't get chance to sell our AGS coins. From original plan only that didn't changed.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: xeroc on August 14, 2015, 03:48:24 pm
No one got to sell their AGS.
Plus .. there is not a single AGS *investor* .. not a single one!!

If you dont know what I mean you should have never payed into the AGS address(es)
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: bobmaloney on August 14, 2015, 04:23:06 pm


Plus .. there is not a single AGS *investor* .. not a single one!!

One of the many reasons AGS will always be a valuable sharedrop target.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Riverhead on August 18, 2015, 04:28:19 am
It clearly IS competing against BTS as a sharedrop target and against BTS market value.

Actually there is one argument AGAINST using BTS as sharedrop target no one brought up yet:
If you can recall PTS prices, what exactly happened after 28th of february last year?
BTS(X) market cap was effectively taken out of the PTS market cap at the time of the snapshot and the priced tanked big time.
Because BTS are used as collateral, this may result in ... you guess it .. a black swan (of course only if the airdropping market cap is large vs. BTS's market cap)

Also, IMHO, the goal of a snapshot is NOT to drive the price up (because it will go down again eventually) .... but to honor a community.

In my opinion, snapshots nowadays only make sense if you do them without further notice .. that way you
* do not drive price up
* prevent a price tanking at the time of the snapshot
* while you are still able to drop on your valuable demographic

Just my thoughts ..

This. Exactly.

Though it's too bad PTS doesn't still exist...oh wait. A golden opportunity for legitimacy missed. Where is AlphaBar these days anyway? My DPOS PTS delegates are still chugging along :P .
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: clayop on August 22, 2015, 01:52:45 am
Maker is about to launch tonight. If there's any news it would be great.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: dritz3r on August 22, 2015, 10:16:16 am
No one got to sell their AGS.
Plus .. there is not a single AGS *investor* .. not a single one!!

If you dont know what I mean you should have never payed into the AGS address(es)

Yes I know what you mean. I bought AGS to invest in development of BTS and become part of all those beautiful autonomous companies. That was the promise if I remember correctly. What is left from that promise?
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: xeroc on August 22, 2015, 11:10:18 am
No one got to sell their AGS.
Plus .. there is not a single AGS *investor* .. not a single one!!

If you dont know what I mean you should have never payed into the AGS address(es)

Yes I know what you mean. I bought AGS to invest in development of BTS and become part of all those beautiful autonomous companies. That was the promise if I remember correctly. What is left from that promise?
No promises are associated with AGS!
and still you received BTS .. didnt you?
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: dritz3r on August 22, 2015, 11:38:32 am
No one got to sell their AGS.
Plus .. there is not a single AGS *investor* .. not a single one!!

If you dont know what I mean you should have never payed into the AGS address(es)

Yes I know what you mean. I bought AGS to invest in development of BTS and become part of all those beautiful autonomous companies. That was the promise if I remember correctly. What is left from that promise?
No promises are associated with AGS!
and still you received BTS .. didnt you?

But why. I was invited and my BTC with other 'promise'. Maybe I didn't want BTSX, now BTS. No, I didn't received BTS, at least not all. PTS was returned to investor, why not BTC? Where is the difference. A-ha PTS don't worth anything anymore. If I wait enough maybe Dan will return BTC :). Common guys you know well that you can't cheat your investors and expect trust. In crypto trust is all you have. Did you ask yourself what you have besides lots of broken promises or social contract as you call that.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: freedom on August 22, 2015, 11:45:19 am
Quote

But why. I was invited and my BTC with other 'promise'. Maybe I didn't want BTSX, now BTS. No, I didn't received BTS, at least not all. PTS was returned to investor, why not BTC? Where is the difference. A-ha PTS don't worth anything anymore. If I wait enough maybe Dan will return BTC :). Common guys you know well that you can't cheat your investors and expect trust. In crypto trust is all you have. Did you ask yourself what you have besides lots of broken promises or social contract as you call that.

 +5% :'(
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: fav on August 22, 2015, 11:48:51 am
Thank you very much Stan. You are clever guy and you know that post 2/28/14 investors are biggest losers here. Can we at least get 1 Brownie.PTS or maybe half? We even didn't get chance to sell our AGS coins. From original plan only that didn't changed.

a hard lesson learned for you I'd say. AGS was never a coin and never meant to be traded. I'd recommend to do some research before investing in something you may not understand completely
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Stan on August 22, 2015, 11:50:23 am
No one got to sell their AGS.
Plus .. there is not a single AGS *investor* .. not a single one!!

If you dont know what I mean you should have never payed into the AGS address(es)

Yes I know what you mean. I bought AGS to invest in development of BTS and become part of all those beautiful autonomous companies. That was the promise if I remember correctly. What is left from that promise?

Um, BitShares 2.0, MUSE, PLAY, Identabit, and ... stay tuned!
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Akado on August 22, 2015, 11:51:39 am
The idea most AGS donators don't get is the magical sentence "no strings attached". I donated too btw.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: cass on August 22, 2015, 11:52:33 am
To clarify - Maker isn't a BTS clone or it has to do anything with BitShares. It is deployed on Ethereum blockchain .. so i don't get why people here complaining about AGS etc ... it has nothing to do with that!
The Maker team just considering to honor BTS community ...
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Stan on August 22, 2015, 12:25:20 pm
My apologies to the Maker team.

You don't deserve having your thread FUDded, but then neither do the rest of us.

All of the questions the low-information trolls are asking have been addressed repeatedly in over 2000 posts, just counting those from me. (The good news for the rest of us is that they apparently have to go back to 2014 to find something to complain about.) 

:)
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: brainbug on August 22, 2015, 02:47:26 pm
I have three questions:

How does MKR guarantee the peg? (The Maker white paper is not that helpful here.)

What are the differences (other than being based on another blockchain) between BitUSD and eDollar?

On first glance, this (honoring the BitShares community; good thing generally) looks like a simple marketing gag. Is it one?
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: fuzzy on August 23, 2015, 09:04:46 am
It clearly IS competing against BTS as a sharedrop target and against BTS market value.

Actually there is one argument AGAINST using BTS as sharedrop target no one brought up yet:
If you can recall PTS prices, what exactly happened after 28th of february last year?
BTS(X) market cap was effectively taken out of the PTS market cap at the time of the snapshot and the priced tanked big time.
Because BTS are used as collateral, this may result in ... you guess it .. a black swan (of course only if the airdropping market cap is large vs. BTS's market cap)

Also, IMHO, the goal of a snapshot is NOT to drive the price up (because it will go down again eventually) .... but to honor a community.

In my opinion, snapshots nowadays only make sense if you do them without further notice .. that way you
* do not drive price up
* prevent a price tanking at the time of the snapshot
* while you are still able to drop on your valuable demographic

Just my thoughts ..

This. Exactly.

Though it's too bad PTS doesn't still exist...oh wait. A golden opportunity for legitimacy missed. Where is AlphaBar these days anyway? My DPOS PTS delegates are still chugging along :P .

This^
Lol...
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: mint chocolate chip on August 23, 2015, 02:12:12 pm
On first glance, this (honoring the BitShares community; good thing generally) looks like a simple marketing gag. Is it one?
Agree, this was likely less about sharedrop and more about name drop. Effective brand recognition and cost-effective marketing (free) at the same time. wp, gg, gl
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: Akado on August 24, 2015, 01:11:49 pm
question, assume I make a sell order and an asset is on the orderbook. Does that count towards the sharedrop since I technically haven't sold it yet or not? Cause I see the balance subtracted from my account and it got transfered to BIDXXXX which seems to be the bid ID.

Could I just lay the asset on the order book or not?
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: donkeypong on January 04, 2016, 06:34:47 pm
What ever happened with this?
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: cass on January 04, 2016, 07:02:01 pm
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20877.msg269996.html#msg269996
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: donkeypong on January 04, 2016, 07:31:07 pm
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20877.msg269996.html#msg269996

Yes, thanks, I saw that recent thread. Just wondering if they had ever decided if/how to sharedrop on this community.
Title: Re: Maker sharedrop on the BitShares community
Post by: cass on January 04, 2016, 10:21:58 pm
a kinda sharedrop was done by sending MKR to user who did attend the mumble session on which maker was introduced IIRC..
but i could be also completely worng with .. pls correct me if .

@Rune