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Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: Stan on August 12, 2015, 06:30:02 pm

Title: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Stan on August 12, 2015, 06:30:02 pm
ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community

The industrial grade blockchain technology of BitShares 2.0 has put it in a class by itself, but that won’t last for long.  Several new “Bitcoin 2.0” blockchains are expected to adopt the same great technology this fall, and the crypto world will never be the same.

Today we are pleased to announce our partnership with IDentabit, the third in a series of revolutionary new blockchains based on Cryptonomex Graphene™ technology. 

If you’re new to Graphene, here's a thumbnail summary:

Quote
Graphene in a Nutshell
On June 8th, 2015 Cryptonomex shocked the crypto-currency world by introducing its third generation of blockchain technology code-named Graphene™.  Graphene averages transaction confirmations in 1 second compared to what can take Bitcoin more than an hour.   And with 100,000 transactions per second compared to Bitcoin’s current 7 tps, Graphene is able to support a host of new features, like a NASDAQ-class asset exchange, with enough throughput left over to upgrade Bitcoin and most of the 600+ other altcoins to a common interoperable cryptocurrency network.  All this is old news at bitshares.org (http://bitshares.org).


IDentabit is the brainchild of John Underwood, who has been working on this with us behind the scenes since last fall.  You can review the Underwood forum thread (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,11125.msg227474.html#msg227474) if you are interested in the history of the relationship.  He has decided to field IDentabit as a key precursor for his original Remitabit vision discussed there. IDentabit will be controversial, by design.

"Sometimes you want to go where everybody knows your name."
One of the best features of living in a small town is that everybody knows everybody. 
Because of that, reputation matters and everybody behaves to guard their reputation. 
How do we achieve that dynamic on a global scale?

IDentabit is John’s vision of how to implement what he calls a “neutral world reserve currency” – designed intentionally to be one that the current system of governments and banks will be happy to accept.  As the name implies, a key distinction is how identity is handled.  With BitShares, a verified identity is optional and only needed if you want to trade an asset that has restrictions on who can own it.  With IDentabit, every account must have a verified identity. This means in IDentabit there is no such thing as an anonymous transaction.  Everyone can be held responsible for every thing they do.  This puts it philosophically at odds with BitShares and most freedom-oriented blockchains. 

And that is its key niche in the marketplace. 
A potentially big niche.

(https://i.gyazo.com/5491f119e81f585992c146f548bd6c3b.png)

IDentabit is positioning itself as a coin, not an exchange, because John wants to have a pure debate with Bitcoin about identity vs anonymity without any unnecessary complex distractions – coin on coin, so to speak.  But, we feel that John’s impassioned three-way comparison between Bitcoin vs. IDentabit vs. BitShares will attract a lot of attention and may actually draw more new believers to BitShares instead.  Naturally, we are delighted to see him engaging in such a debate.  This community wins either way.

Architecturally, IDentabit is an example of what Vitalik Buterin recently defined as a partially private consortium blockchain (https://blog.ethereum.org/2015/08/07/on-public-and-private-blockchains/) where the right to read and write the blockchain is limited to those elected and bonded to preserve the privacy of the public from the public but not necessarily from a government authority with a “legitimate” need to know.  Another challenge to tradition.

Nevertheless, IDentabit was judged eligible for a Graphene™ license for the same reasons that MUSE got one in Announcement 7 (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17879.msg227819.html#msg227819):
Concerning its rationale for being a separate chain, IDentabit meets just about every criteria we mentioned in Announcement 7 (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17879.msg227819.html#msg227819) for why a separate chain might be needed: 

Quote
“But there can be good reasons why some potential partners might need independent chains.  Sometimes there’s a compelling philosophical incompatibility, or differences in business model, global parameters, rule set, governance system, privacy policy or fee structure.  Perhaps a different distribution is needed to capture support from essential partners, funding sources or other user demographics.  And of course everyone has different perceptions of the risks and benefits of sharing a common block chain.”

IDentabit is a clear example of what you get when you challenge orthodox doctrine.  It was, in fact, part of the inspiration behind a recent forum article entitled, “Non-Bitcoinian Geometry (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17700.msg225677.html#msg225677).”   The premise of that article was that, “if you are willing to violate the sacred axioms and doctrine you learned back in the Bitcoin Theological Seminary, you might just discover a whole new universe of opportunities – one that the competition has not yet dared to explore.  For example:

If we sacrifice anonymity, we can gain adoption by large institutions that are constrained by KYC/AML regulations.

Those of us who are out to tame tyranny aren’t likely to budge on this one.  Still, if your only interest is in making money, then why not offer a blockchain that The System can adopt?  I’d rather have The System put all its information out on a public blockchain where smart contracts on other Sovereign block chains can watch them, trigger transactions on them, and otherwise do business quietly on the side.  Why would I want to stop The System from doing that?  We need to think bigger, Pinky!


John has even decided to violate some of our own most strongly-held beliefs,
and we plan to relentlessly take him to task on that here and in future debates.

Nevertheless, we have to respect his ideas. After all, he clearly has recognized the world’s best blockchain technology and a nice big niche where competition has failed to explore for mostly ideological reasons.  He even has a viable plan to use that competitive blind spot to overtake Bitcoin before anybody else does.  John has definitely been able to find many Bitcoinian doctrines worth violating. 

The premise of IDentabit is to anticipate where the regulators will wind up and get there first with a solution that gives them what they need to do their “legitimate” jobs while protecting the public from overreaching abuses.  That’s a tall order and may be the crypto equivalent of Icarus flying too close to the sun.  Underwood shuns the accepted strategy of avoiding the beast, and boldly walks into its lair with a leash.

(http://images.forwallpaper.com/files/thumbs/list/23/235598__gandalf-vs-the-balrog_t.jpg)

Do not mistakenly believe that John is a servant of that beast.  For example, he is planning a head-on attack on the reprehensibly corrupt, bankster-drafted New York BitLicense and he really did name his son “Snowden”.

Underwood makes other points that some may grudgingly accept:
That said, we disagree with John on many points about his strategic approach.  That’s why IDentabit cannot, ever, be hosted on BitShares (at least, not with our help).  We side with Bitcoin against IDentabit on the role of government and case for anonymity, among other things. 

Here’s the essence of where we differ:  We simply don’t agree on which of the following two boogiemen is the most existentially dangerous.

His priority is to stop crime, and then do his best to limit tyranny.
Our priority is to stop tyranny, and then do our best to limit crime.

That’s it.  It’s a seemingly minor difference with huge implications.  Other than that I’d be willing to buy the fellow a frosty cold mug of Tooheys New and even fly to the Land Down Under to drink one with him.

The unavoidable problem is in the definition of “crime”.   Tyrants define it as anything that doesn’t submit to their tyranny.  So all well-meaning crime prevention measures can be used to suppress anything – including contract killers, kidnappers, child molesters, hemp growers, inconvenient minorities, disapproved religions and opposing political parties.  Blockchains are global but crime definitions are local and frequently change 180 degrees with who holds power.

For this reason alone, IDentabit is not something I personally want to use.  But I do want to own it, because I think much of the world will find it attractive.  Sadly, much of the world would happily sacrifice its actual freedom for a mere illusion of safety.  These masses are not likely to quickly adopt BitShares, but they might just adopt IDentabit – if  John can get their overseeing governments and banks to assure them it's ok.   

Underwood's approach to finding partners is very different from ours, so he will undoubtedly pursue many leads that we would not. His share reserve also gives him some flexibility in making big deals.   This is one of the strengths of licensing Graphene to separate chains run by different entrepreneurs.  More parallel coverage of all the opportunities in the world!

So, let IDentabit light the other end of the winnable customers fuse [cue the Mission Impossible (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k55NuWQCh78) music] and pursue the people least likely to use BitShares. In a few years, when that fuse burns to the middle, we’ll see whether it’s easier to convince newly trained industrial grade DPOS users to move to or from freedom.  Outrages like Cyprus and Greece should ultimately tip the scales in BitShares’ favor.  Meanwhile, we need DPOS allies and it may be easier to teach happy IDentabit users about freedom than to teach traditional Bank users about crypto.

(https://i.gyazo.com/c3069d6d577482387943b62134667966.png)

For everyone who holds onto both BitShares and IDentabit, it won’t matter that much where the sparks meet on that fuse.  If they ever do meet and begin to compete, we will all have prospered greatly, our technology will have become an interoperable, widely used standard that is tightly integrated with whatever the remainder of the world has chosen. And BitShares will still be there as the ultimate safe haven, relentlessly engineered to guard against any beasts that remain unleashed.

John Underwood is opening a new front in the crypto revolution – a front deep behind enemy lines.  It will seek to affect revolution from the inside, by “stroking, not poking, the beast.”  If he succeeds, it may be easier for BitShares to implement a cross-chain interface to the fiat world via IDentabit, than gaining direct cooperation with the closed banking system we must work around today. 

Nah, who would think of something that far outside the box?   :)




There's a ton of details at
IDentabit.com (http://IDentabit.com)

The global press release is linked here:
IDentabit Targets Bitcoin's Underbelly (http://www.digitaljournal.com/pr/2642851)

SUMMARY

IDentabit is positioning itself as
a new bitcoin freed of everything that holds the original back;
a responsible collaborator with governments and banks;
and a more transparent interface for
better visibility and integration with today’s opaque financial institutions.

IDentabit.  Because some folks will pick the blue chain.

(http://i.gyazo.com/b85a277cac4a9c06dfaa88740c03c795.png)
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: xeroc on August 12, 2015, 06:36:30 pm
sweet
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Ander on August 12, 2015, 06:40:48 pm
Sold the bad news first!

Lol! :)

Yeah I dont know how people are going to react to the anti-anonymity chain. 

I expect newmine to do his best to turn this into something he can attack us with.


Sharedrops are great though, I love to see announcements of BTS getting sharedrops.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: xeroc on August 12, 2015, 06:42:33 pm
It's a different chain .. and they chose to sharedrop on BTS .. don't see a point in selling you BTS on that announcement ..
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Ander on August 12, 2015, 06:43:07 pm
Stan's blue pill red pill analogy is pretty good here I think.

Also, I'm kindof relieved that his non-bitcoininan geometry post wasnt about plans for BitShares itself.  I think most people interpreted that to be about bitshares and it turned some peopel off.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: lil_jay890 on August 12, 2015, 06:43:36 pm
Sold the bad news first!

Lol! :)

Yeah I dont know how people are going to react to the anti-anonymity chain. 

I expect newmine to do his best to turn this into something he can attack us with.


Sharedrops are great though, I love to see announcements of BTS getting sharedrops.

The best part of the announcement is that more people are doing share drops on BTS... I think the actual idea is a non starter (especially because there is already competition by SETL) but I'll look at the positives with people dropping on BTS.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Ander on August 12, 2015, 06:44:08 pm
It's a different chain .. and they chose to sharedrop on BTS .. don't see a point in selling you BTS on that announcement ..

Never underestimate newmine's ability to turn an announcement into a reason for peopel to sell BTS! :P
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: nomoreheroes7 on August 12, 2015, 06:45:20 pm
Sharedrops are great though, I love to see announcements of BTS getting sharedrops.

Oh don't you worry, I'm sure the sharedrop will be neatly divided among PTS, AGS, BTS, Brownie, Note, PTS 2.0, Brownie.PTS, DevShares...

 :P

But really, does the ann specify that BTS is specifically getting the drop? I'm not seeing it anywhere...
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Empirical1.2 on August 12, 2015, 06:46:19 pm
It's a different chain .. and they chose to sharedrop on BTS .. don't see a point in selling you BTS on that announcement ..

I was only half kidding. I had very little BTS on the exchange and actually trying to sync my wallet and moving BTS to the exchange to sell is quite a mission.

But I had moved a reasonable amount of BTC onto the exchange in case I wanted to buy the news. But this isn't news that makes me buy at this stage.

The concept is interesting and the website looks decent. At first glance I don't know how you'd compete with the deeper pockets of large players in the identity based blockchain market.


Yeah I dont know how people are going to react to the anti-anonymity chain. 

I expect newmine to do his best to turn this into something he can attack us with.


True.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: cass on August 12, 2015, 06:48:52 pm
 +5%
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: phillyguy on August 12, 2015, 06:50:10 pm
 +5%

I wonder who this team is comprised of. Any devs we would know?

Pretty refreshing to read an announcement from Stan with zero hyperbole in it too.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Shentist on August 12, 2015, 06:58:10 pm
if anyone wonders how much they are sharedroping you can find it here http://identabit.com/docs/IDentabitAnnouncementIDentabitCryptonomex.pdf

spoiler: 40%
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Ander on August 12, 2015, 06:59:32 pm
Question: Is this sharedrop going to be coordinated with exchanges like CCEDK, Btc38, and Poloniex?  Or can we only get the sharedrop if we withdraw to personal wallet? 
Need to know if I will have to withdraw trading positions at some point.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: bobmaloney on August 12, 2015, 07:04:41 pm
 +5%

ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - TL;DR:

That’s a tall order and may be the crypto equivalent of Icarus flying too close to the sun.

However, there are already several groups positioning themselves to be an IDentabit competitor, so I would much rather gamble on the winner of this game include the bitshares community and our ideologues vs. their "pragmatists".

This also makes it so much important for something like bitshares (with fully functional privacy and somewhat attainable anonymity) to succeed parallel to allow for and function as a lifeboat when the worst does eventually happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR3fD5YyN3g

 :o

Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Stan on August 12, 2015, 07:07:32 pm
Question: Is this sharedrop going to be coordinated with exchanges like CCEDK, Btc38, and Poloniex?  Or can we only get the sharedrop if we withdraw to personal wallet? 
Need to know if I will have to withdraw trading positions at some point.

Those details will come out with the usual notice when everything is ready.

Our team is focused on the BitShares 2.0 release right now. 
Underwood has just begun his campaign with this announcement.

There are miles to go before the drop.
This is just the opening salvo to start the controversial eyeball catching debate.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Murderistic on August 12, 2015, 07:08:03 pm
Exactly - if there is gonna be a race on something like this - we might as well have a horse (and a stake) in it.

 :)
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Ander on August 12, 2015, 07:10:48 pm
Exactly - if there is gonna be a race on something like this - we might as well have a horse (and a stake) in it.

 :)

I agree.  Its good to have our answer to ripple and whatever fedcoin governments try to create.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: profitofthegods on August 12, 2015, 07:14:33 pm
Awesome.

Good move to focus on being a currency to compete with Bitcoin rather than the exchange aspect. Ripple has got to be the main competitor for bank-friendly crypto, and they really play down their coin to push settlement of other currencies / commodities, so this way you're not competing head on with them.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Stan on August 12, 2015, 07:17:43 pm
First press release is out...

IDentabit Targets Bitcoin's Underbelly (http://www.pressadvantage.com/story/3360-identabit-challenges-bitcoin-and-bitshares)

Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Empirical1.2 on August 12, 2015, 07:40:04 pm
if anyone wonders how much they are sharedroping you can find it here http://identabit.com/docs/IDentabitAnnouncementIDentabitCryptonomex.pdf

spoiler: 40%

It's a healthy amount of the initial distribution which I think makes up 50% of the total.

I see they've also allocated equity for strategic partners & I think the quality of those partnerships will determine how credible it could be.


Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Stan on August 12, 2015, 08:06:12 pm
What Google knows about IDentabit so far...


https://www.google.com/search?q=idenabit&oq=idenabit&aqs=chrome..69i57.1622j0j1&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=identabit
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: jakub on August 12, 2015, 08:29:51 pm
Apart from the sharedrop, I see the good news in this: every piece of ecosystem infrastructure (e.g. mobile wallet) written for BTS can be easily forked to work with IDentabit.

So IDentabit can act as a legal safety net for money invested in building BitShares ecosystem.
I can go to my investor and say this: "Invest in my BitShares-based company now and if things get unsafe in legal terms we have a solid Plan B: we can always switch to IDentabit".
Sounds like a good argument to me.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: jakub on August 12, 2015, 08:37:30 pm
The only thing I don't like is the name itself - "IDentabit" sounds a bit strange for me.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: JA on August 12, 2015, 08:42:55 pm
The only thing I don't like is the name itself - "IDentabit" sounds a bit strange for me.
like toothpaste
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: infovortice2013 on August 12, 2015, 08:45:10 pm
yeah hope coin has other name moar comercial, but sounds helpfull for bitshares to cover full spectrum posibilities

just the news sharedrops come back to bitshares

(http://www.lamarihuana.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/aplausos1.gif)

Goodluck !
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: cylonmaker2053 on August 12, 2015, 09:00:26 pm
awesome, good luck to those Aussies. glad they chose our network...
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Ander on August 12, 2015, 09:03:25 pm
The only thing I don't like is the name itself - "IDentabit" sounds a bit strange for me.

I agree. 


So regarding the sharedrop, it seems that it is 10% of total supply (20% of initial released supply) to BTS.  And another 10% of total supply (20% of released) to "contributing members of bitshares community", which we dont know how that will be determined or who will qualify.  Also, how will it avoid sybil attacks?
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: cylonmaker2053 on August 12, 2015, 09:05:07 pm
What exactly does 'share drop' mean? is iDentabit going to have its own blockchain or be a UIA on ours? Or something altogether different?
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Ander on August 12, 2015, 09:21:50 pm
What exactly does 'share drop' mean? is iDentabit going to have its own blockchain or be a UIA on ours? Or something altogether different?

Its going to be its own chain, and will give us coins in the genesis block.

It needs to be its own chain because it has fundamentally different privacy/identity functions as Bitshares.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: sumantso on August 12, 2015, 09:23:36 pm
The only thing I don't like is the name itself - "IDentabit" sounds a bit strange for me.

I agree. 


So regarding the sharedrop, it seems that it is 10% of total supply (20% of initial released supply) to BTS.  And another 10% of total supply (20% of released) to "contributing members of bitshares community", which we dont know how that will be determined or who will qualify.  Also, how will it avoid sybil attacks?

Brownie.pts

Its their chain so they can distribute to whoever they wish, but appeasing BM favoured members is very wrong, IMHO.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Empirical1.2 on August 12, 2015, 09:25:09 pm
The only thing I don't like is the name itself - "IDentabit" sounds a bit strange for me.
like toothpaste

Anonymous dentistry has arrived! Maintaining personal privacy and a great smile is finally possible with IDentabit! 

'We couldn't even identify him from his dental records'
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Stan on August 12, 2015, 09:33:52 pm
What exactly does 'share drop' mean? is iDentabit going to have its own blockchain or be a UIA on ours? Or something altogether different?

Its going to be its own chain, and will give us coins in the genesis block.

It needs to be its own chain because it has fundamentally different privacy/identity functions as Bitshares.

BitShares Sharedrop Theory (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,14019.msg182306.html#msg182306)
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: jakub on August 12, 2015, 09:41:26 pm
You've got an unfortunate repetition on your website:
Quote
The first identity based, decentralized identity based currency
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: jakub on August 12, 2015, 09:45:23 pm
The only thing I don't like is the name itself - "IDentabit" sounds a bit strange for me.
like toothpaste
Is "IDentabit" going to be the final brand name?
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Ander on August 12, 2015, 10:04:15 pm
Brownie up like 200%, haha.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: lakerta06 on August 12, 2015, 10:08:12 pm
Brownie up like 200%, haha.

8.2M brownies and 2.5B BTS get the same amount of sharedrop. That is ~300 BTS gets the same amount of sharedrop 1 brownie gets.

IMHO it will go way up.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Ander on August 12, 2015, 10:09:47 pm
Brownie up like 200%, haha.

8.2M brownies and 2.5B BTS get the same amount of sharedrop. That is ~300 BTS gets the same amount of sharedrop 1 brownie gets.

IMHO it will go way up.

Yep.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: bytemaster on August 12, 2015, 10:46:32 pm
Note brownies are subject to dilution at will and supplies can change.   

Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: karnal on August 12, 2015, 10:55:28 pm
It's a different chain .. and they chose to sharedrop on BTS .. don't see a point in selling you BTS on that announcement ..

Never underestimate newmine's ability to turn an announcement into a reason for peopel to sell BTS! :P

LOL
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: liondani on August 12, 2015, 11:03:05 pm
Note brownies are subject to dilution at will and supplies can change.

you are getting to predictable man...


PS   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetishism
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: phillyguy on August 12, 2015, 11:07:01 pm

Note brownies are subject to dilution at will and supplies can change.

Note Brownies will be promised to Mumble attendees and then never delivered, then Stan will say it's fixed, and then they still won't be delivered.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Ander on August 12, 2015, 11:07:48 pm

Note brownies are subject to dilution at will and supplies can change.

Note Brownies will be promised to Mumble attendees and then never delivered, then Stan will say it's fixed, and then they still won't be delivered.

This is probably due to people making an error or forgetting, due to having to do it manually.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Ben Mason on August 12, 2015, 11:27:24 pm
Stan, do you believe this coin is capable of resisting subversion with DPOS alone? If so, why would the banks go for it? An identity based chain is only useful to these despots if they can exert control (the type of control that makes slaves of everyone else's.) Surely, they will go with Ripple because it delivers exactly what they desire.

Is identabit only viable if the banks buy the long con? If not, we're back to educating the masses and hoping for mass adoption of Bitshares.....

I love the attempts to attack this from all angles and I get where underwun is coming from....guess it's worth a try! 
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Akado on August 12, 2015, 11:31:13 pm
Stan, do you believe this coin is capable of resisting subversion with DPOS alone? If so, why would the banks go for it? An identity based chain is only useful to these despots if they can exert control (the type of control that makes slaves of everyone else's.) Surely, they will go with Ripple because it delivers exactly what they desire.

Is identabit only viable if the banks buy the long con? If not, we're back to educating the masses and hoping for mass adoption of Bitshares.....

I love the attempts to attack this from all angles and I get where underwun is coming from....guess it's worth a try!

This. It's always good to see new stuff and see better projects but I'm just wondering why would banks or other big entities go for this over Ripple. Not to mention Ripple is already known and already has deals with some big banks
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Stan on August 12, 2015, 11:32:57 pm

Note brownies are subject to dilution at will and supplies can change.

Note Brownies will be promised to Mumble attendees and then never delivered, then Stan will say it's fixed, and then they still won't be delivered.

Give Fuzzy a chance to test his new system.  I just resupplied it with brownies yesterday.

Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Stan on August 12, 2015, 11:36:35 pm
Stan, do you believe this coin is capable of resisting subversion with DPOS alone? If so, why would the banks go for it? An identity based chain is only useful to these despots if they can exert control (the type of control that makes slaves of everyone else's.) Surely, they will go with Ripple because it delivers exactly what they desire.

Is identabit only viable if the banks buy the long con? If not, we're back to educating the masses and hoping for mass adoption of Bitshares.....

I love the attempts to attack this from all angles and I get where underwun is coming from....guess it's worth a try!

This. It's always good to see new stuff and see better projects but I'm just wondering why would banks or other big entities go for this over Ripple. Not to mention Ripple is already known and already has deals with some big banks

Alta Vista and Netscape and Blackberry and the Wright Brothers had a pretty good head start in their markets too.

Underwood is pretty good at finding big partners, ever since his days at Sun Microsystems.

He now has all the technology he could need.  Time to see what unconstrained entrepreneurial talent can produce.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Erlich Bachman on August 12, 2015, 11:40:55 pm
why would the banks go for it? Surely, they will go with Ripple because it delivers exactly what they desire.

I thought that the banks desired "profits"

you know...money  $$$$

What is it that you thought that they desired?

I'm just wondering why would banks or other big entities go for this over Ripple. Not to mention Ripple is already known and already has deals with some big banks

Because IDentabit has a larger network of users and gives banks a percentage of the transaction costs generated by their own business.  Did you forget about the referral incentives already?

DPOS is profitable not only for the chain owners but for the businesses that use it.

Ripple takes all profits.  DPOS shares them with the big banks.  Why?  Because the blockchain tech is so brutally disintermediating (takes profits from so many middlemen) that the profits can be shared (redistributed) among more of the new players than just the miners or coin owners.  DPOS shares "Satoshi's disintermediating money" with all participants.

So you thought that the banks would be happy working "for" Ripple instead of obtaining a significant "ownership" stake in this new technology.  Silly you...

In a nutshell: DPOS is nore generous with it's profits than Ripple is.

and if you think that banks are more concerned with anything other than "making cash money" as their top priority, then I don't know what to tell you.  Ever hear the phrase "follow the money"?

How soon we forget what motivates ($$$)
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: yellowecho on August 12, 2015, 11:45:14 pm
Does this mean that IDentabit sharedrops will not be anonymous? If that's the case, wouldn't the sharedrop itself disclose the identities of each BTS account?
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Erlich Bachman on August 12, 2015, 11:48:19 pm
I would hope that you would need to reveal your identity in order to transact on this blockchain.

If that is the case, then this new community will be the absolute shit (high value to businesses looking for real reputable people to transact with).  A new community of unashamed technological early adopters who are unafraid to speak publicly about their ideas.  Gavin, Andreas, Stefan, Stan, Dan, and many others have already made their identities public, and actively speak of a future of individually secured property rights.

It certainly sounds too good to be true, so I'm not holding my breath.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Akado on August 12, 2015, 11:56:30 pm
why would the banks go for it? Surely, they will go with Ripple because it delivers exactly what they desire.

I thought that the banks desired "profits"

you know...money  $$$$

What is it that you thought that they desired?

I'm just wondering why would banks or other big entities go for this over Ripple. Not to mention Ripple is already known and already has deals with some big banks

Because IDentabit has a larger network of users and gives banks a percentage of the transaction costs generated by their own business.  Did you forget about the referral incentives already?

DPOS is profitable not only for the chain owners but for the businesses that use it.

Ripple takes all profits.  DPOS shares them with the big banks.  Why?  Because the blockchain tech is so brutally disintermediating (takes profits from so many middlemen) that the profits can be shared (redistributed) among more of the new players than just the miners or coin owners.  DPOS shares "Satoshi's disintermediating money" with all participants.

So you thought that the banks would be happy working "for" Ripple instead of obtaining a significant "ownership" stake in this new technology.  Silly you...

In a nutshell: DPOS is nore generous with it's profits than Ripple is.

and if you think that banks are more concerned with anything other than "making cash money" as their top priority, then I don't know what to tell you.  Ever hear the phrase "follow the money"?

How soon we forget what motivates ($$$)

Then I guess a tittle like "IDentabit Challenges Ripple" would fit better. A few articles mentioning and comparing with Ripple would certainly bring attention. Most people only dislike Ripple for the fact it's too centralized. If this was to be considered a new upgraded and decentralized Ripple then I guess it could bring lots of attention and new people into the system  +5%
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Ben Mason on August 12, 2015, 11:59:15 pm
why would the banks go for it? Surely, they will go with Ripple because it delivers exactly what they desire.

I thought that the banks desired "profits"

you know...money  $$$$

What is it that you thought that they desired?

I thought they desired systemic control.... currency control isn't the only means.  You make a very interesting point about the difference between ripple & Bitshares. Also, there will be those who want to profit and will betray the beast. There may even be some good in them.....though I've not felt it's presence!
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: underwun on August 13, 2015, 12:03:22 am
The only thing I don't like is the name itself - "IDentabit" sounds a bit strange for me.
like toothpaste
Is "IDentabit" going to be the final brand name?

Here is our announcement to the community.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17934.0.html

Here is our branding document

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zDPgdB9Ftm6TOOTPhk2ZzFQLMP2chYRXZsDo6nGWPEE/edit?usp=sharing

There is a reason for everything and if there isn't there should be.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Stan on August 13, 2015, 12:16:59 am
Does this mean that IDentabit sharedrops will not be anonymous? If that's the case, wouldn't the sharedrop itself disclose the identities of each BTS account?

From identabit.com:

Pro-privacy

Transaction and privacy comes as a consequence of Identabit's blockchain being closed to public and regulatory scrutiny. Conditional P2P/AML/CTF reporting is the responsibility of an exchange therefore limiting transaction visibility to users and their specific exchange.

Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: underwun on August 13, 2015, 12:19:48 am
Stan, do you believe this coin is capable of resisting subversion with DPOS alone? If so, why would the banks go for it? An identity based chain is only useful to these despots if they can exert control (the type of control that makes slaves of everyone else's.) Surely, they will go with Ripple because it delivers exactly what they desire.

Is identabit only viable if the banks buy the long con? If not, we're back to educating the masses and hoping for mass adoption of Bitshares.....

I love the attempts to attack this from all angles and I get where underwun is coming from....guess it's worth a try!

This. It's always good to see new stuff and see better projects but I'm just wondering why would banks or other big entities go for this over Ripple. Not to mention Ripple is already known and already has deals with some big banks

Hi There

Identabit is not intended as a Ripple competitor.

The open space is for a genuine neural digital currency, Bitcoin is a dead coin rolling in our opinion and our goal is to step into the underutilized infrastructure built for Bitcoin. We will see countless stories like  37Coins closing down as investments flounder, Identabit has been introduced to give investors hope that there is a viable alternative with mainstream appeal.

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-remittance-startup-37coins-announces-closure/

Once we get traction for Identabit as an alternative to Bitcoin then all the other features inherent in Bitshares become important but until then its mano o mano.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: underwun on August 13, 2015, 12:22:49 am
if anyone wonders how much they are sharedroping you can find it here http://identabit.com/docs/IDentabitAnnouncementIDentabitCryptonomex.pdf

spoiler: 40%

We appreciate the interest

More explained here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17934.0.html
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: underwun on August 13, 2015, 12:35:50 am
+5%

ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - TL;DR:

That’s a tall order and may be the crypto equivalent of Icarus flying too close to the sun.

However, there are already several groups positioning themselves to be an IDentabit competitor, so I would much rather gamble on the winner of this game include the bitshares community and our ideologues vs. their "pragmatists".

This also makes it so much important for something like bitshares (with fully functional privacy and somewhat attainable anonymity) to succeed parallel to allow for and function as a lifeboat when the worst does eventually happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR3fD5YyN3g

 :o

It is a big game but here is the argument.

Bitcoin is dead and gone, not because of the tech but the reality of failed integration with financial institutions and inability to drive adoption by way of known user association.

We are as you say, if we all scream loud enough the leader, and the leader gets to sets how high the bar is and we are setting the bar very high.

The main challenge is being recognised as the player everyone compares others with.

We must the focus the media  on the one on one battle and we need the communities help, hence the sensible share drop.

Here is our community announcement https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17934.0.html and a living marketing document that you are welcome to question.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zDPgdB9Ftm6TOOTPhk2ZzFQLMP2chYRXZsDo6nGWPEE/edit#heading=h.uiwot0p3y1ws

Got to go hopefully we can catch up soon.

Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Erlich Bachman on August 13, 2015, 12:37:58 am
I get that ID = Identification
bit=bitcoin
but what is the "enta"????


I thought that the banks desired "profits"

I thought they desired systemic control.... currency control isn't the only means.  You make a very interesting point about the difference between ripple & Bitshares. Also, there will be those who want to profit and will betray the beast. There may even be some good in them.....though I've not felt it's presence!

The people at the apex of the banking pyramid desire control, but the other 99 % of the bankers are paid according to how much profits they generate.  Do you know what the "entry level" banking position is?

Teller?

no

Salesman!

All new tellers are fired if they cannot sell.  All positions are eliminated if they cannot hit their financial targets.

The politicians who accept bitcoins:

are they the top dogs (obama?)

no, they are the 99%

Will Baron Von Rothschild adopt IDentalbit?  hell no, but will his minions defect when they realize that they can keep their jobs for another few quarters by driving customers to DPOS?

In other words, how many lower level bankers do you think are truly willing to take a bullet (give up free money, fame, sex, blow, & riches to take a financial hit for daddy Warbucks?

If you believe your logic, then you think that there is still honor among thieves, and that's OK, but I know thieves, and on average, they are more selfish rather than less as you believe.  But that's ok, you can trust thieves, but I will not, and I will plan my investment strategy under the assumption that bankers would rather keep their job than ensure that their bosses boss gets his next million dollar bonus, but, hey, that's just me. 

Bankers may be the most honorable sacrificial altruistic and noble people willing to die for their collective beliefs that central control must be strictly and exclusively adopted.

But I think that they are just as cowardly and afraid of real free market competition as their bosses, and will act in their own self interest as those whom they serve.

So, no, I still don't believe that all bankers will unite to take a bullet for their bosses.

http://247wallst.com/banking-finance/2015/05/29/a-new-wave-of-bank-layoffs-with-more-to-come/

You might be the honorable type of person to accept the layoff graciously so that your boss can afford his third vacation home, but I'm the type who would rather embrace new technology to hit my profit target to keep my family fed for another year.  We are just different people that's all.

The exaggerated tin foil hat meme that all bankers are collectively evil on all levels and ready to die for their beliefs is oversimplified and distracting from the complicated reality of life on earth.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: underwun on August 13, 2015, 12:45:03 am
The only thing I don't like is the name itself - "IDentabit" sounds a bit strange for me.
like toothpaste

Anonymous dentistry has arrived! Maintaining personal privacy and a great smile is finally possible with IDentabit! 

'We couldn't even identify him from his dental records'

I am seriously laughing, I warned our guys, if we capitalise the D then we would be seen as a dental implement, thank you but the good thing, is it makes sure people spell IDentabit with an A so it works for that reason.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Ben Mason on August 13, 2015, 01:05:29 am
I get that ID = Identification
bit=bitcoin
but what is the "enta"????


I thought that the banks desired "profits"

I thought they desired systemic control.... currency control isn't the only means.  You make a very interesting point about the difference between ripple & Bitshares. Also, there will be those who want to profit and will betray the beast. There may even be some good in them.....though I've not felt it's presence!

The people at the apex of the banking pyramid desire control, but the other 99 % of the bankers are paid according to how much profits they generate.  Do you know what the "entry level" banking position is?

Teller?

no

Salesman!

All new tellers are fired if they cannot sell.  All positions are eliminated if they cannot hit their financial targets.

The politicians who accept bitcoins:

are they the top dogs (obama?)

no, they are the 99%

Will Baron Von Rothschild adopt IDentalbit?  hell no, but will his minions defect when they realize that they can keep their jobs for another few quarters by driving customers to DPOS?

In other words, how many lower level bankers do you think are truly willing to take a bullet (give up free money, fame, sex, blow, & riches to take a financial hit for daddy Warbucks?

If you believe your logic, then you think that there is still honor among thieves, and that's OK, but I know thieves, and on average, they are more selfish rather than less as you believe.  But that's ok, you can trust thieves, but I will not, and I will plan my investment strategy under the assumption that bankers would rather keep their job than ensure that their bosses boss gets his next million dollar bonus, but, hey, that's just me. 

Bankers may be the most honorable sacrificial altruistic and noble people willing to die for their collective beliefs that central control must be strictly and exclusively adopted.

But I think that they are just as cowardly and afraid of real free market competition as their bosses, and will act in their own self interest as those whom they serve.

So, no, I still don't believe that all bankers will unite to take a bullet for their bosses.

http://247wallst.com/banking-finance/2015/05/29/a-new-wave-of-bank-layoffs-with-more-to-come/

You might be the honorable type of person to accept the layoff graciously so that your boss can afford his third vacation home, but I'm the type who would rather embrace new technology to hit my profit target to keep my family fed for another year.  We are just different people that's all.
I'm sorry erlich, i don't think I made myself clear. I believe that the current system is utterly corrupt from the top down. In trying to get to grips with the implications of underwun's proposal, I'm trying to comprehend how gaining network effect ahead of the bankers can be achieved whilst preserving core attributes of Bitshares...consensus defined constitutions that ultimately decentralise power. I'm only interested in the ultimate goal....a civilized world with integrity, peace and innovation at its heart.

Underwun's vision to challenge Bitcoin and capture network effect by partnering with major financial institutions as a stepping stone I intrigues me because ultimately (assuming identabit can preserve integrity through the process) the banks will end up sacrificing the control they have now.

I think you are right, there is no loyalty amongst thieves (as you put it) but perhaps there is an incentive to embrace something new they can profit from. I think many good people have been corrupted by the enormous incentives to indulge the current system.....I hope they will take the chance to embrace an alternative.

I think we're ultimately on the same page!
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Akado on August 13, 2015, 01:09:12 am
identitycoin has the word tity in it so it was inappropriate

so IDentabit was used because it has both "t" and "a"

IDcoin?

IDbit?

still can't figure out the significance of the "enta"

I too don't understand the "enta" part but I guess they had their reasons.
Only problem I see with the name is it sounds too long and isn't that catchy. I would prefer something more simple like IDblocks or something that sounds better and seems more catchy. This because I don't see the necessity of needing to associate with bitcoin, i don't agree with the part where it should be similar but different. It only needs to be unique imo.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Stan on August 13, 2015, 01:32:28 am
identitycoin has the word tity in it so it was inappropriate

so IDentabit was used because it has both "t" and "a"

IDcoin?

IDbit?

still can't figure out the significance of the "enta"

I too don't understand the "enta" part but I guess they had their reasons.
Only problem I see with the name is it sounds too long and isn't that catchy. I would prefer something more simple like IDblocks or something that sounds better and seems more catchy. This because I don't see the necessity of needing to associate with bitcoin, i don't agree with the part where it should be similar but different. It only needs to be unique imo.

As Underwood explains here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zDPgdB9Ftm6TOOTPhk2ZzFQLMP2chYRXZsDo6nGWPEE/edit#heading=h.uiwot0p3y1ws

This is ultimately foundation building for Remitabit
So Identabit was named to make that future brand migration easier.

Meanwhile, Identity is the key brand recognition point.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: yellowecho on August 13, 2015, 02:05:03 am
identitycoin has the word tity in it so it was inappropriate

so IDentabit was used because it has both "t" and "a"

IDcoin?

IDbit?

still can't figure out the significance of the "enta"

I too don't understand the "enta" part but I guess they had their reasons.
Only problem I see with the name is it sounds too long and isn't that catchy. I would prefer something more simple like IDblocks or something that sounds better and seems more catchy. This because I don't see the necessity of needing to associate with bitcoin, i don't agree with the part where it should be similar but different. It only needs to be unique imo.

As Underwood explains here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zDPgdB9Ftm6TOOTPhk2ZzFQLMP2chYRXZsDo6nGWPEE/edit#heading=h.uiwot0p3y1ws

This is ultimately foundation building for Remitabit
So Identabit was named to make that future brand migration easier.

Meanwhile, Identity is the key brand recognition point.


If that's the case, why not BitID or bitID? That would easily tie the brand together through having a RemitabitID?  "Good sir, do you have a bitID? Yes indeed, I have a RemitabitID." BOOM
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: DMo09 on August 13, 2015, 02:54:37 am
I like "bitID", but it also sounds like "bitUSD"...

Will There end up being several "____abits" and if so, will the "abit" be a different color, or  "*" in between like "Wal*mart"?

Most importantly, I think this business model is genius.  Good luck getting accepted by banks and governments!  Godspeed!
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Erlich Bachman on August 13, 2015, 03:02:36 am
if we capitalise the D then we would be seen as a dental implement, thank you but the good thing, is it makes sure people spell IDentabit with an A so it works for that reason.

Yeah, the capital "D" is DISTRACTING

You only capitalize the "D" if you are going to actually "abbreviate" the word.  The english is not even correct, what of the translation?  Anyway, good luck, I'm sure that you will be competing with slick marketing models like "Ripple" and "Ethereum" with multiples your market cap for reasons so simple that even a luddite (your target market) can understand.

HOw do you abbreviate the word "identity"?  "identi"  or "identa" ?

Identibit?

Identabit?

WTFabit?

What happened to KISS?  Not "Kiss" (we all know what happened to them)

(http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/ultimateclassicrock.com/files/2012/08/Kiss1.jpg)

The "branding" should have been the easy part

What was going to win "VHS" or "beta" ?

The one that didn't sound like a premature (alpha or beta) release of a new tech.

Who cares that beta was better tech.


The people at the apex of the banking pyramid desire control, but the other 99 % of the bankers are paid according to how much profits they generate. 
I believe that the current system is utterly corrupt from the top down. In trying to get to grips with the implications of underwun's proposal, I'm trying to comprehend how gaining network effect ahead of the bankers can be achieved whilst preserving core attributes of Bitshares...consensus defined constitutions that ultimately decentralise power.

the banks will end up sacrificing the control they have now.

not "sacrificing" 

"decentralizing"

In order to gain the network effect of decentralized communities (where the individual holds the power), any company must ultimately yeild to the power of the individual in order to participate.  Once they participate, then they can make profits by expanding the network further.  The Bank's power is in their brand name recognition which can lure new users in to the system effectively leveraging the customer base of the larger banks which will of course be more reluctant to integrate.  But once the smaller banks integrate and show profits and begin gaining market share on the large banks, then you can guess what happens next:

The big banks must either publicly fight a blockchain that champions absolute transparency and strict regulatory adherance, or they join in the enevitable evolution of humanity by adopting the modern technology that Identabit made easy for Grandma to use.

You can't fight the light!

And this coin promises to be the most absolutely transparent of all time!
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: mike623317 on August 13, 2015, 04:08:15 am

Like others, the only thing I don't like is the name. BitID that someone else suggested us perfect imo.

I love the website and most importantly the concept.
Let's hope we get some traction.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: jakub on August 13, 2015, 04:13:02 am
identitycoin has the word tity in it so it was inappropriate

so IDentabit was used because it has both "t" and "a"

IDcoin?

IDbit?

still can't figure out the significance of the "enta"

I too don't understand the "enta" part but I guess they had their reasons.
Only problem I see with the name is it sounds too long and isn't that catchy. I would prefer something more simple like IDblocks or something that sounds better and seems more catchy. This because I don't see the necessity of needing to associate with bitcoin, i don't agree with the part where it should be similar but different. It only needs to be unique imo.

What about "Identicon"?
It already has an established meaning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identicon), sounds much more straight-forward and there is no ambiguation about pronunciation.
It's going to be a hard battle with this IDentabit name - whenever I try to pronounce it, I need a little while to concentrate to get it right. People are not going to like it.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: puppies on August 13, 2015, 04:31:05 am

The big banks must either publicly fight a blockchain that champions absolute transparency and strict regulatory adherance, or they join in the enevitable evolution of humanity by adopting the modern technology that Identabit made easy for Grandma to use.

You can't fight the light!

And this coin promises to be the most absolutely transparent of all time!

I think the banks may be a bit more sneaky than that.  I would expect them to have legislators fight the fight for them.  To protect the innocent, help the poor, save the children.  It doesn't matter if it's true. 

I'm not a naysayer, I think it's possible to win, but don't pretend like it's gonna be easy, or that the enemy is going to fight fair. 

As far as iDentabit goes, I don't see a problem with the name.  It's at least as good as bitID.  I'm hoping it us very successful.  I will use it if possible.  While I prefer something a little less regulated, it's not like I don't currently use credit cards.  I'm used to living without financial privacy from our overlords. 
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: jakub on August 13, 2015, 04:33:34 am
Identabit is not intended as a Ripple competitor.

Why not? It might not be indented as competitor but it actually is.
If I were a bank, both Identabit and Ripple are worth considering as viable technologies.
If I were a user, both Identabit and Ripple would be perceived by me as virtual currencies that require me to reveal my identity.

You have a very strong advantage over Ripple - there is no counterparty risk involved in the Bitshares technology and you could capitalize on that big time.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: roadscape on August 13, 2015, 05:00:30 am
That's quite the announcement! Didn't see it coming.

It's a great strategy.. excited to see what we can do with this project. It's hard to wrap my mind around the fact that it will be both id-verified AND private. I am concerned about the fact it will be a volatile coin to begin with (but it's hard to complain as it's less competition/confusion for our smartcoins in the initial stages :) )

But yeah, the name. Something like IDenticoin would be perfect (though it's taken). What about IDentibit? IDentacoin?
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: donkeypong on August 13, 2015, 05:07:03 am

But yeah, the name.

I actually like the name. But this is what I thought of the first time I saw it. :)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a7/36/e0/a736e0ce51ada5c92327b1900a80d887.jpg)
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: sudo on August 13, 2015, 05:07:14 am
what the difference between keyid& identabit?
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: betax on August 13, 2015, 06:00:52 am
Yes, the name is not very catchy. Think about all the non English speaking countries. Something short and simple.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: jakub on August 13, 2015, 07:24:43 am
I have two questions:

(1) The "Pro-privacy" section of the manifesto on your website says this:
Quote
Transaction and privacy comes as a consequence of IDentabit's blockchain being closed to public and regulatory scrutiny.
Could you expand on that? How are you going to make the blockchain unavailable to public scrutiny? Is it technically possible?

(2) Do you intend to build a similar ecosystem as BitShares 2.0 is trying to build?
Will you be looking for third-party companies like CCEDK and Banx to run decentralized exchanges and hosted wallet services for your blockchain or are you going to have it all unified under one brand name?
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: fav on August 13, 2015, 07:27:30 am
 +5% thanks for the sharedrop!
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: betax on August 13, 2015, 07:33:16 am
Yes, the name is not very catchy. Think about all the non English speaking countries. Something short and simple.

I like how on the identabit.com website it says that it will automatically calculate my annual taxes.

How about "Taxcoin?"

Taxcoin - for those who hate to do their taxes!

:D I think many people will like that.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on August 13, 2015, 08:26:09 am
Great announcement for sure.. very compelling.

Since the topic now seems to be all bout the name, thought I would throw in my 2 Brownies worth :)

identification is clearly the the long form for the identa part of the identabit

Perhaps a synonym with more utility to it might be more fitting.. I am thinking something like badge instead of derivatives of ID. Could introduce some interesting design elements to badges too that relate to the levels of privacy/verification/reviews/whatever. Heck.. build an app that allows people to customize them in some way.. decorate them with their interests.. pokemon.. WoW.. bitcoins.. shoes... etc.

Perhaps it doesn't sound much like a coin.. but hey.. we live in a world with Dogecoin. :)

Considering the extent of the groundwork done on this.. I am quite certain the name was not arrived at easily... this space is FULL of similar naming schemes so coming up with something with no brand confusion would be challenging.

Again though.. great work!  +5%
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: xeroc on August 13, 2015, 08:45:30 am
plot twist:

What is the holy grail of a basic income? It's a decentralized social network with verifiable identities!
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: lakerta06 on August 13, 2015, 11:07:34 am
plot twist:

What is the holy grail of a basic income? It's a decentralized social network with verifiable identities!

We'll be rich!  :D
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: cass on August 13, 2015, 11:12:26 am
pls don't go with the IMPACT font as logo font ... if you want i woukld love to send an alternative design .. if any possible ... just said :)
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: MJK on August 13, 2015, 02:15:25 pm
pls don't go with the IMPACT font as logo font ... if you want i woukld love to send an alternative design .. if any possible ... just said :)

Totally Agree. The logo sucks to be honest. I'm sure CASS can come up with something in a heartbeat ..
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: nomoreheroes7 on August 13, 2015, 02:21:30 pm
Has there been any word as to around when the snapshot is expected to take place?
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: lakerta06 on August 13, 2015, 02:31:20 pm
pls don't go with the IMPACT font as logo font ... if you want i woukld love to send an alternative design .. if any possible ... just said :)

Totally Agree. The logo sucks to be honest. I'm sure CASS can come up with something in a heartbeat ..

The double cross is most probably intentional and has a meaning. I bet logo wont change :)
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Stan on August 13, 2015, 03:33:35 pm
Has there been any word as to around when the snapshot is expected to take place?

It could be announced with some advance warning like we have done in the past, but we really like xeroc's ideas about announcing it at some point AFTER it has occurred.  This would minimize any "black swan" impact to the chain from people pumping then dumping around a pre-announced snapshot date.  It would also have the effect of encouraging people to HODL their shares for a long-term probability of a snapshot, not just buying in just in time to collect.  This rewards HODLers which is not a bad idea.

Here's what xeroc recently posted:

It clearly IS competing against BTS as a sharedrop target and against BTS market value.

Actually there is one argument AGAINST using BTS as sharedrop target no-one brought up yet:
If you can recall PTS prices, what exactly happened after 28th of february last year?
BTS(X) market cap was effectively taken out of the PTS market cap at the time of the snapshot and the priced tanked big time.
Because BTS are used as collateral, this may result in ... you guess it .. a black swan (of course only if the airdropping market cap is large vs. BTS's market cap)

Also, IMHO, the goal of a snapshot is NOT to drive the price up (because it will go down again eventually) .... but to honor a community.

In my opinion, snapshots nowadays only make sense if you do them without further notice .. that way you
* do not drive price up
* prevent a price tanking at the time of the snapshot
* while you are still able to drop on your valuable demographic

Just my thoughts ..

I guess having the possibility of a snapshot that could occur at any time would encourage folks not to leave their BTS on some external exchange and not to sell BTS even temporarily just to fool around promiscuously with other coins...

^^ THIS! but mainly because of what I stated in my previous post.

Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: nomoreheroes7 on August 13, 2015, 03:50:28 pm
Has there been any word as to around when the snapshot is expected to take place?

It could be announced with some advance warning like we have done in the past, but we really like xeroc's ideas about announcing it at some point AFTER it has occurred.  This would minimize any "black swan" impact to the chain from people pumping then dumping around a pre-announced snapshot date.  It would also have the effect of encouraging people to HODL their shares for a long-term probability of a snapshot, not just buying in just in time to collect.  This rewards HODLers which is not a bad idea.

Here's what xeroc recently posted:

It clearly IS competing against BTS as a sharedrop target and against BTS market value.

Actually there is one argument AGAINST using BTS as sharedrop target no-one brought up yet:
If you can recall PTS prices, what exactly happened after 28th of february last year?
BTS(X) market cap was effectively taken out of the PTS market cap at the time of the snapshot and the priced tanked big time.
Because BTS are used as collateral, this may result in ... you guess it .. a black swan (of course only if the airdropping market cap is large vs. BTS's market cap)

Also, IMHO, the goal of a snapshot is NOT to drive the price up (because it will go down again eventually) .... but to honor a community.

In my opinion, snapshots nowadays only make sense if you do them without further notice .. that way you
* do not drive price up
* prevent a price tanking at the time of the snapshot
* while you are still able to drop on your valuable demographic

Just my thoughts ..

I guess having the possibility of a snapshot that could occur at any time would encourage folks not to leave their BTS on some external exchange and not to sell BTS even temporarily just to fool around promiscuously with other coins...

^^ THIS! but mainly because of what I stated in my previous post.

I have to agree with all this logic, and I hope this is the direction things go. Here's to hoping the snapshot is 2:30 pm EST yesterday, to reward those who had enough faith in Brownies to hodl before realizing just how precious BM's gift was.  8)
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Stan on August 13, 2015, 03:54:14 pm
It probably ought to be a random BTS block number between now and two weeks prior to genesis chosen at that time.

Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: tbone on August 13, 2015, 04:19:16 pm
I tend to agree with rewarding the hodlers by just doing the drop and then announcing it's done.  My only concern is for those who have BTS on the exchanges.  Do we know all of the main exchanges can/will handle a sharedrop (aside from perhaps BTER)?


Has there been any word as to around when the snapshot is expected to take place?

It could be announced with some advance warning like we have done in the past, but we really like xeroc's ideas about announcing it at some point AFTER it has occurred.  This would minimize any "black swan" impact to the chain from people pumping then dumping around a pre-announced snapshot date.  It would also have the effect of encouraging people to HODL their shares for a long-term probability of a snapshot, not just buying in just in time to collect.  This rewards HODLers which is not a bad idea.

Here's what xeroc recently posted:

It clearly IS competing against BTS as a sharedrop target and against BTS market value.

Actually there is one argument AGAINST using BTS as sharedrop target no-one brought up yet:
If you can recall PTS prices, what exactly happened after 28th of february last year?
BTS(X) market cap was effectively taken out of the PTS market cap at the time of the snapshot and the priced tanked big time.
Because BTS are used as collateral, this may result in ... you guess it .. a black swan (of course only if the airdropping market cap is large vs. BTS's market cap)

Also, IMHO, the goal of a snapshot is NOT to drive the price up (because it will go down again eventually) .... but to honor a community.

In my opinion, snapshots nowadays only make sense if you do them without further notice .. that way you
* do not drive price up
* prevent a price tanking at the time of the snapshot
* while you are still able to drop on your valuable demographic

Just my thoughts ..

I guess having the possibility of a snapshot that could occur at any time would encourage folks not to leave their BTS on some external exchange and not to sell BTS even temporarily just to fool around promiscuously with other coins...

^^ THIS! but mainly because of what I stated in my previous post.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Ben Mason on August 13, 2015, 04:21:12 pm
Has there been any word as to around when the snapshot is expected to take place?

It could be announced with some advance warning like we have done in the past, but we really like xeroc's ideas about announcing it at some point AFTER it has occurred.  This would minimize any "black swan" impact to the chain from people pumping then dumping around a pre-announced snapshot date.  It would also have the effect of encouraging people to HODL their shares for a long-term probability of a snapshot, not just buying in just in time to collect.  This rewards HODLers which is not a bad idea.

Here's what xeroc recently posted:

It clearly IS competing against BTS as a sharedrop target and against BTS market value.

Actually there is one argument AGAINST using BTS as sharedrop target no-one brought up yet:
If you can recall PTS prices, what exactly happened after 28th of february last year?
BTS(X) market cap was effectively taken out of the PTS market cap at the time of the snapshot and the priced tanked big time.
Because BTS are used as collateral, this may result in ... you guess it .. a black swan (of course only if the airdropping market cap is large vs. BTS's market cap)

Also, IMHO, the goal of a snapshot is NOT to drive the price up (because it will go down again eventually) .... but to honor a community.

In my opinion, snapshots nowadays only make sense if you do them without further notice .. that way you
* do not drive price up
* prevent a price tanking at the time of the snapshot
* while you are still able to drop on your valuable demographic

Just my thoughts ..

I guess having the possibility of a snapshot that could occur at any time would encourage folks not to leave their BTS on some external exchange and not to sell BTS even temporarily just to fool around promiscuously with other coins...

^^ THIS! but mainly because of what I stated in my previous post.

I have to agree with all this logic, and I hope this is the direction things go. Here's to hoping the snapshot is 2:30 pm EST yesterday, to reward those who had enough faith in Brownies to hodl before realizing just how precious BM's gift was.  8)

I agree too, great shout Xeroc....
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Thom on August 13, 2015, 04:23:22 pm
The premise of IDentabit is to anticipate where the regulators will wind up and get there first with a solution that gives them what they need to do their “legitimate” jobs while protecting the public from overreaching abuses.  That’s a tall order and may be the crypto equivalent of Icarus flying too close to the sun.  Underwood shuns the accepted strategy of avoiding the beast, and boldly walks into its lair with a leash.

This was an  A B S O L U T E L Y  awesome OP, bravo Stan!!!

Talk about a great experiment! My ultimate hope is that the need for AML / KYC compliance "features" will ultimately be removed from BitShares b/c everyone that wants to use them would rather go where the action is (Identibit).

This is truly a grand experiment, and it remains to be seen how it will play out or how long it will take. I don't believe the conclusion will occur quickly, b/c bureaucracy moves so dang slow. That may be a major issue in the speed at which Identibit can evolve, and it may create a tug of war competition based on features alone. It could put considerable pressure on Identibit (and possibly bureaucrats) to evolve faster to provide the utility that freedom loving chains provide.

We must be reaching the pinnacle of these announcements b/c this one will be hard to beat.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: puppies on August 13, 2015, 04:24:02 pm
Has there been any word as to around when the snapshot is expected to take place?

It could be announced with some advance warning like we have done in the past, but we really like xeroc's ideas about announcing it at some point AFTER it has occurred.  This would minimize any "black swan" impact to the chain from people pumping then dumping around a pre-announced snapshot date.  It would also have the effect of encouraging people to HODL their shares for a long-term probability of a snapshot, not just buying in just in time to collect.  This rewards HODLers which is not a bad idea.

Here's what xeroc recently posted:

It clearly IS competing against BTS as a sharedrop target and against BTS market value.

Actually there is one argument AGAINST using BTS as sharedrop target no-one brought up yet:
If you can recall PTS prices, what exactly happened after 28th of february last year?
BTS(X) market cap was effectively taken out of the PTS market cap at the time of the snapshot and the priced tanked big time.
Because BTS are used as collateral, this may result in ... you guess it .. a black swan (of course only if the airdropping market cap is large vs. BTS's market cap)

Also, IMHO, the goal of a snapshot is NOT to drive the price up (because it will go down again eventually) .... but to honor a community.

In my opinion, snapshots nowadays only make sense if you do them without further notice .. that way you
* do not drive price up
* prevent a price tanking at the time of the snapshot
* while you are still able to drop on your valuable demographic

Just my thoughts ..

I guess having the possibility of a snapshot that could occur at any time would encourage folks not to leave their BTS on some external exchange and not to sell BTS even temporarily just to fool around promiscuously with other coins...

^^ THIS! but mainly because of what I stated in my previous post.

I have to agree with all this logic, and I hope this is the direction things go. Here's to hoping the snapshot is 2:30 pm EST yesterday, to reward those who had enough faith in Brownies to hodl before realizing just how precious BM's gift was.  8)

There is a poetic justice to that, and it would be the best monetary benefit for me. (at least in the short term) So I of course find it attractive.

Rationally though, the purpose of this sharedrop should not be to reward the faithful, but to bring value to iDentabit, by putting it in the hands of those most likely to help improve it.  I have seen a lot of people that have contributed ask for brownies since yesterday at 2:30.  I think they should be included in the drop.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: roadscape on August 13, 2015, 04:27:08 pm
Has there been any word as to around when the snapshot is expected to take place?

It could be announced with some advance warning like we have done in the past, but we really like xeroc's ideas about announcing it at some point AFTER it has occurred.  This would minimize any "black swan" impact to the chain from people pumping then dumping around a pre-announced snapshot date.  It would also have the effect of encouraging people to HODL their shares for a long-term probability of a snapshot, not just buying in just in time to collect.  This rewards HODLers which is not a bad idea.

Here's what xeroc recently posted:

It clearly IS competing against BTS as a sharedrop target and against BTS market value.

Actually there is one argument AGAINST using BTS as sharedrop target no-one brought up yet:
If you can recall PTS prices, what exactly happened after 28th of february last year?
BTS(X) market cap was effectively taken out of the PTS market cap at the time of the snapshot and the priced tanked big time.
Because BTS are used as collateral, this may result in ... you guess it .. a black swan (of course only if the airdropping market cap is large vs. BTS's market cap)

Also, IMHO, the goal of a snapshot is NOT to drive the price up (because it will go down again eventually) .... but to honor a community.

In my opinion, snapshots nowadays only make sense if you do them without further notice .. that way you
* do not drive price up
* prevent a price tanking at the time of the snapshot
* while you are still able to drop on your valuable demographic

Just my thoughts ..

I guess having the possibility of a snapshot that could occur at any time would encourage folks not to leave their BTS on some external exchange and not to sell BTS even temporarily just to fool around promiscuously with other coins...

^^ THIS! but mainly because of what I stated in my previous post.

 +5%. But I'll miss the excitement of the countdown :)
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Xeldal on August 13, 2015, 04:37:29 pm
Has there been any word as to around when the snapshot is expected to take place?

It could be announced with some advance warning like we have done in the past, but we really like xeroc's ideas about announcing it at some point AFTER it has occurred.  This would minimize any "black swan" impact to the chain from people pumping then dumping around a pre-announced snapshot date.  It would also have the effect of encouraging people to HODL their shares for a long-term probability of a snapshot, not just buying in just in time to collect.  This rewards HODLers which is not a bad idea.

Here's what xeroc recently posted:

It clearly IS competing against BTS as a sharedrop target and against BTS market value.

Actually there is one argument AGAINST using BTS as sharedrop target no-one brought up yet:
If you can recall PTS prices, what exactly happened after 28th of february last year?
BTS(X) market cap was effectively taken out of the PTS market cap at the time of the snapshot and the priced tanked big time.
Because BTS are used as collateral, this may result in ... you guess it .. a black swan (of course only if the airdropping market cap is large vs. BTS's market cap)

Also, IMHO, the goal of a snapshot is NOT to drive the price up (because it will go down again eventually) .... but to honor a community.

In my opinion, snapshots nowadays only make sense if you do them without further notice .. that way you
* do not drive price up
* prevent a price tanking at the time of the snapshot
* while you are still able to drop on your valuable demographic

Just my thoughts ..

I guess having the possibility of a snapshot that could occur at any time would encourage folks not to leave their BTS on some external exchange and not to sell BTS even temporarily just to fool around promiscuously with other coins...

^^ THIS! but mainly because of what I stated in my previous post.

There seems to be a lot of rejoicing and support for this idea already.  I am not so sure it makes any sense.

Even if you announce after the fact, what prevents people from simply dumping on the day of the announcement.  I'm not sure it saves or prevents anything.

Not telling people the intended date would not be good for traders, market makers, arbitragers, and other liquidity providers, which in turn is not good for BTS as a whole.   Until the BitShares DEX is the largest BTS exchange, interoperable with bitcoin, and the goto place to buy and sell BTS with banking connections, having BTS liquidity on external exchanges is an unfortunate requirement.

This idea may just pad the pockets of any exchange who doesn't intend to bother honoring the snapshot, because traders will not have forewarning to remove them.  This could be dangerous for the sharedropping coin as the exchange likely has no interest at all in holding on to them.

I agree though, sharedropping a coin of equal or greater magnitude on BTS could cause a black swan, and that is of greater concern. 

If BTS2.0 has key banking conections, a solid internal exchange network, much higher market cap, and a user base primarily not overlapping of bitcoin/crypto then I might support throwing the remaining external exchange liquidity providers under the bus, but not before then.   

This all can be alleviated to some degree with simply getting major exchanges to honor the snapshots, and I think quite a few have shown they will.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Stan on August 14, 2015, 03:24:00 pm
what the difference between keyid& identabit?

Totally different.

KeyID tracked ID name spaces.

Identabit just requires verified IDs for every account but otherwise just intends to be a better bitcoin.
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: bobmaloney on August 14, 2015, 03:35:13 pm


This was an  A B S O L U T E L Y  awesome OP, bravo Stan!!!

Talk about a great experiment! My ultimate hope is that the need for AML / KYC compliance "features" will ultimately be removed from BitShares b/c everyone that wants to use them would rather go where the action is (Identibit).

+5
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: tinker on August 15, 2015, 03:46:52 am
 +5% +5% +5%
Title: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT 8 - IDentabit Will Sharedrop on BitShares Community
Post by: Buck Fankers on August 16, 2015, 01:42:44 am
36 (https://soundcloud.com/beyond-bitcoin-hangouts/beyond-bitcoin-8-14-2015-dev-hangout-s3#t=11:50)"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the Angel Investors in AGS, nor the Dev's, but only the Issuer. As it was in the days of Satoshi, so it will be at the coming of the ShareDrop."