BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: noisy on September 22, 2015, 10:38:22 pm
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I think I know the basics how bitshares works, but I am still not sure from where specific bitassets came from. I know that there are 101 delegates responsible for providing information about price of pegged assets.
1. Are they providing information about all pegged bitAssets at the same time, or they are 101 delegates for each pegged bitassets?
2. How decide when to create new pegged assets?
3. How often new bitAssets are created so far?
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In BitShares 2.0 there can be two kinds of bitassets .. those that are issued by the network (like bitUSD with feeds from delegates/witnesses) and privatized bitAssets (totally new, with feeds from a different set of feed providers)
For market issued assets (bitUSD) you need witnesses to publish feeds and I am fairly certain that have of all witnesses will be required to do so in order to activate the market
Anyone can create either market issued assets and have them traded if delegates publish a price .. or (in bts2) you can also create privatized pegged assets that you can define your own price producers for .. this particular feature is very useful if you think of indices .. you want to create an index of some sort .. say SDR .. than you can do the math and publish the price .. or define a set of feed producers to decentralize it ..
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I think I know the basics how bitshares works, but I am still not sure from where specific bitassets came from. I know that there are 101 delegates responsible for providing information about price of pegged assets.
1. Are they providing information about all pegged bitAssets at the same time, or they are 101 delegates for each pegged bitassets?
2. How decide when to create new pegged assets?
3. How often new bitAssets are created so far?
Hi, you happen to have gotten here as we're doing a major upgrade of the system. You may be confused by some outdated information (version 0.x), the new version we wrote from scratch (version 2.0) will address many of the very questions you're asking. We'll switch over to version 2.0 on October 13.
In BitShares 0.x, the 101 delegates that run the network must publish price information for all pegged assets. To create a new pegged asset, you need to convince a majority of the 101 delegates to publish price information for it. Not many new BitAssets have been created because coordinating so many parties is a high barrier to entry.
In BitShares 2.0 (powered by the Graphene technology), we have fixed all these problems. Anyone can get a symbol, create a market-pegged asset, and publish a data feed for that asset. Once a feed is published, people can borrow the asset into existence like any other market pegged asset in Graphene. (In BitShares 0.x, assets are created by shorting, which means newly created units of an asset must immediately be sold on the internal market. In Graphene, creation (a supply operation which changes the total number of units in existence) and sale (a market operation by which already-existing asset units change hands) are totally separate, which greatly simplifies both the concept and the implementation.)
The asset object has one account designated as its owner, and another account as the feed producer. The owner has many powers, including forcing settlement of all outstanding units of the asset or changing the feed producer. If this provides more centralized control than you would like, the owner can permanently revoke many of his powers through the asset permission system, and the authority system (hierarchical threshold multisig) allows both the owner and feed producer to be distributed among many accounts, with consensus of a quorum required to do anything. (How big a quorum is needed is the "threshold" part.) The proposed transaction system allows you to use the chain itself to coordinate signing of transaction.
I admit that documentation is lacking, maybe I'll throw something together if our testnet is running smoothly and I don't have anything to do.
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What in theory need to be done, to create new pegged bitAsset, like bitPLN?
So to directly answer this question, in BitShares 2.0 you'll simply need to run the create_asset command with the asset name, precision, description, and options. Making sure to include the optional bitasset_options field, which (when included) specifies that the asset is a market-pegged asset. Then you need to publish a feed. If you did it today on the testnet, you'd use the publish_asset_feed command. But soon (as in I'm working on it right now) there will be a much better command for this (publish_asset_feed requires you to specify prices in satoshis which is...inconvenient).
Then you're done! Any user will be able to borrow the asset into existence (by locking up collateral which must exceed some multiple of the asset being created), repay the loans created in this way (which destroys units of the asset and allows the user to liberate collateral), transfer the asset and trade it in the internal market.
The rest is not a technical problem, but rather a social problem of convincing people to use the new asset (which includes convincing them to trust that you will produce an honest feed and wisely/fairly use the powers that come with ownership of the asset object.)
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For market issued assets (bitUSD) you need witnesses to publish feeds and I am fairly certain that have of all witnesses will be required to do so in order to activate the market
So market pegged asset price feeds will be a median of half of 17 (last figure I read) witnesses - Is that enough to prevent potential manipulation of the price feed?
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So market pegged asset price feeds will be a median of half of 17 (last figure I read) witnesses - Is that enough to prevent potential manipulation of the price feed?
It's median of ALL price feeds that have been publish within a period of time .. (max age) .. and it takes more than 49% to manipulate the median ..
IMHO, we should have more price feeds .. but that would either required to have more active witnesses or separated the price feeds from witnesses complete (which on the other hand than requires price producers to get paid somehow...)
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I am thinking about market pegged assets for a while . Especially after the BitEUR market is so small. What are your thoughts on that.
1.) To raise the BitEUR availability I or other users have to collateralize millions of our own BitShares to lend BitEUR into existence right?
2.) What is the potential return for a whale or Bank to lock away the first million BTS to start a new market? What do they gain?
Let us say that with OpenLedger a Stock Exchange wants to bring in their customers and wants to offer them the BitGOLD market. The Stock Exchange has to use their own BTS stock to start the market right? So they would lend BitGOLD away for the price and interest they are comfortable with. Does that mean they "sell" off new created BitGOLD according to their own conditions?
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I am thinking about market pegged assets for a while . Especially after the BitEUR market is so small. What are your thoughts on that.
1.) To raise the BitEUR availability I or other users have to collateralize millions of our own BitShares to lend BitEUR into existence right?
2.) What is the potential return for a whale or Bank to lock away the first million BTS to start a new market? What do they gain?
Let us say that with OpenLedger a Stock Exchange wants to bring in their customers and wants to offer them the BitGOLD market. The Stock Exchange has to use their own BTS stock to start the market right? So they would lend BitGOLD away for the price and interest they are comfortable with. Does that mean they "sell" off new created BitGOLD according to their own conditions?
We are having this kind of discussion with ronny @ ccedk/openledger.
In theory, a gateway could borrow/short an asset and sell it to their customers, however, this increases their exposure to BTS volatility. It may not be desired.
I think the only way to go (and I am NOT an economist) is to put buy orders for BitAssets and try to buy them from the market AT SPOT price. If you as a gateway don't have the reserves to buy bitUSD in advance you should maybe search for investors. Those bitassets you can sell at a small profit (1-3% or so) to your customers. However, you would need people to short them into existence FOR you .. but you only need people to short them at a CHEAPER premium than what you sell them to your customers .. (maybe just .5-2% or so). By this approach EVERY shareholder can short bitassets and sell them to you as a gateway ..
Get what I mean?
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2.) What is the potential return for a whale or Bank to lock away the first million BTS to start a new market? What do they gain?
The motivation to short a bitasset into existence that I can see is the speculation that bts goes up if there is big demand for bitassets because it means the system and bts is being used.
Any other incentives?
Could this become a problem in a general bear market where the bear market effect on the bts price is bigger than the increasing demand for bitassets?
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hi theoretical, do we have the document now? about howto create a private MPA
I can't find how to set feed producer from the help
usage: ISSUER SYMBOL PRECISION_DIGITS OPTIONS BITASSET_OPTIONS BROADCAST
PRECISION_DIGITS: the number of digits after the decimal point
Example value of OPTIONS:
{
"max_supply": "1000000000000000",
"market_fee_percent": 0,
"max_market_fee": "1000000000000000",
"issuer_permissions": 79,
"flags": 0,
"core_exchange_rate": {
"base": {
"amount": 0,
"asset_id": "1.3.0"
},
"quote": {
"amount": 0,
"asset_id": "1.3.0"
}
},
"whitelist_authorities": [],
"blacklist_authorities": [],
"whitelist_markets": [],
"blacklist_markets": [],
"description": "",
"extensions": []
}
Example value of BITASSET_OPTIONS:
{
"feed_lifetime_sec": 86400,
"minimum_feeds": 1,
"force_settlement_delay_sec": 86400,
"force_settlement_offset_percent": 0,
"maximum_force_settlement_volume": 2000,
"short_backing_asset": "1.3.0",
"extensions": []
}
BITASSET_OPTIONS may be null
I want to know the exact meaning of OPTIONS, BITASSET_OPTIONS, thanks
I think I know the basics how bitshares works, but I am still not sure from where specific bitassets came from. I know that there are 101 delegates responsible for providing information about price of pegged assets.
1. Are they providing information about all pegged bitAssets at the same time, or they are 101 delegates for each pegged bitassets?
2. How decide when to create new pegged assets?
3. How often new bitAssets are created so far?
Hi, you happen to have gotten here as we're doing a major upgrade of the system. You may be confused by some outdated information (version 0.x), the new version we wrote from scratch (version 2.0) will address many of the very questions you're asking. We'll switch over to version 2.0 on October 13.
In BitShares 0.x, the 101 delegates that run the network must publish price information for all pegged assets. To create a new pegged asset, you need to convince a majority of the 101 delegates to publish price information for it. Not many new BitAssets have been created because coordinating so many parties is a high barrier to entry.
In BitShares 2.0 (powered by the Graphene technology), we have fixed all these problems. Anyone can get a symbol, create a market-pegged asset, and publish a data feed for that asset. Once a feed is published, people can borrow the asset into existence like any other market pegged asset in Graphene. (In BitShares 0.x, assets are created by shorting, which means newly created units of an asset must immediately be sold on the internal market. In Graphene, creation (a supply operation which changes the total number of units in existence) and sale (a market operation by which already-existing asset units change hands) are totally separate, which greatly simplifies both the concept and the implementation.)
The asset object has one account designated as its owner, and another account as the feed producer. The owner has many powers, including forcing settlement of all outstanding units of the asset or changing the feed producer. If this provides more centralized control than you would like, the owner can permanently revoke many of his powers through the asset permission system, and the authority system (hierarchical threshold multisig) allows both the owner and feed producer to be distributed among many accounts, with consensus of a quorum required to do anything. (How big a quorum is needed is the "threshold" part.) The proposed transaction system allows you to use the chain itself to coordinate signing of transaction.
I admit that documentation is lacking, maybe I'll throw something together if our testnet is running smoothly and I don't have anything to do.
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hi theoretical, do we have the document now? about howto create a private MPA
I can't find how to set feed producer from the help
I've ever looked into this issue.. use this command:
update_asset_feed_producers ABITUSDA [in.abit,dele-puppy] true
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I've ever looked into this issue.. use this command:
update_asset_feed_producers ABITUSDA [in.abit,dele-puppy] true
got it, thanks
have you created a private MPA already?
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I've ever looked into this issue.. use this command:
update_asset_feed_producers ABITUSDA [in.abit,dele-puppy] true
got it, thanks
have you created a private MPA already?
I've ever done it on testnet, but not on current chain.