BitShares Forum

Other => Graveyard => BitShares AGS => Topic started by: Amazon on January 02, 2014, 12:50:51 am

Title: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: Amazon on January 02, 2014, 12:50:51 am
Updated on July 18, 2014
The BitShares AGS Campaign has ended.
No further donation competitions remain.

It has been an amazing success raising over 5600 BTC and 415,000 PTS
for the BitShares Trust to fund development of the industry.

We thank all who have participated.  Now you will immediately begin to see the results.

The following AGS information is left here for historical reference only.

This is a copy of BitShares AGS ("angel shares") announcement by Invictus Innovations Incorporated, Ltd, discussion can also be found: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1631.0

We have updated the Invictus Innovations Incorporated, LTD website to document the latest plans for the funding and development of BitShares.

http://bitshares.org/resources/ags-pts/ (http://bitshares.org/resources/ags-pts/)

Anything we state in casual forum discussions may contain errors as a result of off-hand brevity so should not be considered binding or official.  Many such posts merely request industry feedback on options under consideration, most of which are never actually adopted.  This post summarizes our official position and we will keep it up to date:

We are not recommending changes to the PTS Social Consensus; about 2 Million will be mined and all developers should continue to honor them with at least 10% in future DACs.

We are introducing a general AGS Consensus recommendation that mirrors the PTS Social Consensus except that wasteful mining is replaced with productive donations in either PTS or BTC. 

We are also recommending the share allocation of the first release of BitShares X to have 4 million total shares.  2 million will be allocated proportional to PTS holders and 2 million proportional to AGS donors. Developers are of course free to change the total in their ultimate releases as long as they do so proportionally.

How to Get Recognized as a Donor via Angel Shares

AGS is just a public ledger of donors you can get on by donating to a development trust, 
to build the industry and try to get targeted by developers
who see promotional advantages in a free airdrop of their new product samples
to a demographic of people who donate to developers!

Unlike PTS, AGS do not have their own block chain and are not actually issued as any form of asset.  They exist only notionally in that anyone can compute what the conceptual distribution would be using the proposed virtual mining algorithm below.  This algorithm is intended only for use by developers wishing to identify who has donated toward developing the BitShares industry for the purpose of targeting them as a demographic with free promotional tokens in their new DAC releases

AGS Virtual Mining Algorithm
Beginning New Year’s Day 2014,
the algorithm will allocate 10,000 new AGS in a new virtual mining competition every day for 200 days.
5000 of them will be allocated to PTS donors.
5000 of them will be allocated to Bitcoin donors. 
That's ultimately 2,000,000 total shares, just like PTS.

Those who donate bitcoins to this address will notionally split 5000 AGS proportionally:

1ANGELwQwWxMmbdaSWhWLqBEtPTkWb8uDc

Those who donate PTS to this address will notionally split 5000 AGS proportionally:

PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw

Every day the virtual shares are notionally divided among those who donated that day.

Be vigilant! Watch for a slow day when your donation will map to a larger overall percentage of that day's allotment.

Don't send donations from anywhere but your own wallet!

DAC developers need the address in a wallet you control to initialize their genesis blocks to honor the key where your donation came from!  If you send from an exchange, that exchange will have the keys to get any promotional shares intended for you!

"What happens to all the donations?"

100% of the proceeds go to growing the crypto-equity industry.
Zero percent will be retained as profits by Invictus.

Funds will be used to encourage new developers with salaries, grants, contracts, and bounties to build everything from small components to entire new DACs.  They will be used provide a free high-quality Developer's Toolkit giving DAC developers a huge head start.  They will be used for advertisements, conferences, promotions and give-aways to stimulate interest in the new industry and to provide opportunities for everyone to contribute.  They will be used for legal advocacy for the ecosystem in many jurisdictions.  Anything is fair game that we believe will grow the value of PTS and all DACs that honor the contributions of PTS and AGS holders. 

That said, these are pure donations for which your only expectation must be
that we will use our best judgement to apply them toward these purposes.

It is beyond our control to prevent an unethical developer from forking our open source code in a way that fails to recognize your donations.  It is up to the market to reject this, or not.  If you do not like our recommended allocation, do not trust the market to reject copycats, or do not trust us to use your donations wisely, then please take your money, fund competition, and build your own DACs that fit your preferred allocation strategy. 

Merry Christmas Keyhotee Founders!!
The first 10,000 AGS are recommended to be set-aside proportionally for Keyhotee Founders. 
Invictus Innovations shareholders are not eligible.
Donations to Keyhotee after Dec 24, 2013 at Midnight GMT don't count.
Jan 1st, 2014 shall include all transactions sent to the Angel addresses in 2013.

Invictus Innovations will not send money from the Angel Address back to the Angel Address as this would completely undermine the entire value proposition.  If we pay bounties, sell PTS or BTC to pay salaries for services then we have no way to prevent those individuals from deciding to reinvest back into the fund.  From a block chain perspective it will be very hard to audit this behavior without us freezing the funds.   We will be as transparent as possible about where we spend the funds and this should make it clear that we are not recirculating funds.  In this business trust is everything so we will protect our integrity in this area because without it we are sunk.

We have created a google docs XLS sheet to track all expenses paid from the Angel fund. 
Our goal is to make everything as transparent as possible.

https://docs.google.com/a/invictus-innovations.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqTwk-e7yzJydFZ3bVVWT0o1OUwzXzdESHFBY0FkUWc&usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqTwk-e7yzJydDFnQmlkTVlkbWpubnJBbzR2UG5ucnc&usp=sharing

Remember - your donations are recorded in a public block chain which developers may or may not use to target 10% or more of their shares as a promotion to gain your support for their projects.  It is their choice - we merely define the public ledger documenting your contributions and a recommended formula for computing a fair share proportional to everyone's contribution.  Our free open source genesis-block initialization software will implement the recommended formula, but we cannot prevent any developer from modifying or replacing this software with their own algorithms or none at all.

Why would a developer want to recognize your donations?
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3980.msg50093#msg50093

Learn more about targeted share give-aways in our blog article on BitShares Sharedrop Theory here
http://bitshares.org/bitshares-airdrop-theory/ (http://bitshares.org/bitshares-airdrop-theory/)

The BitShares Trust was formed for the benefit of the industry by
Invictus Innovations Incorporated Limited of Hong Kong
http://bitshares.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/BitShares-Trust-Published%20July-18-2014.pdf (http://bitshares.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/BitShares-Trust-Published%20July-18-2014.pdf).
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: toast on January 02, 2014, 01:02:14 am
Merry Christmas Keyhotee Founders!!
The first 10,000 AngelShares are set-aside proportionally for Keyhotee Founders.  Invictus Innovations shareholders are not eligible.  Donations to Keyhotee after Dec 24, 2013 at Midnight GMT don't count.

Quote
there will be 10,000 new AngelShares up for grabs in a new patron competition every day for 200 days.
5000 of them will be available to ProtoShare holders.
5000 of them will be available to Bitcoin holders. 
That's ultimately 2,000,000 total shares, just like ProtoShares.

This was never answered in the other thread.
10,000 + (10,000 * 200) != 2,000,000

One of the above numbers is wrong. Either there's 2,010,000 angelshares, or there will only be 199 days.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: 5chdn on January 02, 2014, 01:59:41 am
Merry Christmas Keyhotee Founders!!
The first 10,000 AngelShares are set-aside proportionally for Keyhotee Founders.  Invictus Innovations shareholders are not eligible.  Donations to Keyhotee after Dec 24, 2013 at Midnight GMT don't count.

Quote
there will be 10,000 new AngelShares up for grabs in a new patron competition every day for 200 days.
5000 of them will be available to ProtoShare holders.
5000 of them will be available to Bitcoin holders. 
That's ultimately 2,000,000 total shares, just like ProtoShares.

This was never answered in the other thread.
10,000 + (10,000 * 200) != 2,000,000

One of the above numbers is wrong. Either there's 2,010,000 angelshares, or there will only be 199 days.

(5,000 AGS/PTS + 5,000 AGS/BTC) * 200 days = 2,000,000 AGS total
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on January 02, 2014, 02:00:02 am
Merry Christmas Keyhotee Founders!!
The first 10,000 AngelShares are set-aside proportionally for Keyhotee Founders.  Invictus Innovations shareholders are not eligible.  Donations to Keyhotee after Dec 24, 2013 at Midnight GMT don't count.

Quote
there will be 10,000 new AngelShares up for grabs in a new patron competition every day for 200 days.
5000 of them will be available to ProtoShare holders.
5000 of them will be available to Bitcoin holders. 
That's ultimately 2,000,000 total shares, just like ProtoShares.

This was never answered in the other thread.
10,000 + (10,000 * 200) != 2,000,000

One of the above numbers is wrong. Either there's 2,010,000 angelshares, or there will only be 199 days.

Yeah, we counted the first day as everything prior to Christmas, the second day as Christmas to Jan 1, and one day intervals after that. 
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: 5chdn on January 02, 2014, 02:01:23 am
Yeah, we counted the first day as everything prior to Christmas, the second day as Christmas to Jan 1, and one day intervals after that.

wait what? I dont see any payments before xmas...
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on January 02, 2014, 02:02:56 am
Yeah, we counted the first day as everything prior to Christmas, the second day as Christmas to Jan 1, and one day intervals after that.

wait what? I dont see any payments before xmas...

In our announcement we said we would allocate Keyhotee founders one day's worth (excluding Invictus Shareholders) based upon their contribution to their Keyhotee ID.

Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: phoenix on January 02, 2014, 02:22:37 am
Yeah, we counted the first day as everything prior to Christmas, the second day as Christmas to Jan 1, and one day intervals after that.

wait what? I dont see any payments before xmas...

In our announcement we said we would allocate Keyhotee founders one day's worth (excluding Invictus Shareholders) based upon their contribution to their Keyhotee ID.

How will we get credit for angelshares from our founders ID donations? will it be based on our private keys like normal angelshares donations?
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on January 02, 2014, 02:25:19 am
Yeah, we counted the first day as everything prior to Christmas, the second day as Christmas to Jan 1, and one day intervals after that.

wait what? I dont see any payments before xmas...

In our announcement we said we would allocate Keyhotee founders one day's worth (excluding Invictus Shareholders) based upon their contribution to their Keyhotee ID.

How will we get credit for angelshares from our founders ID donations? will it be based on our private keys like normal angelshares donations?

It will be based upon Genesis block and the new public key which you will register to your name.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: phoenix on January 02, 2014, 02:30:46 am
Yeah, we counted the first day as everything prior to Christmas, the second day as Christmas to Jan 1, and one day intervals after that.

wait what? I dont see any payments before xmas...

In our announcement we said we would allocate Keyhotee founders one day's worth (excluding Invictus Shareholders) based upon their contribution to their Keyhotee ID.

How will we get credit for angelshares from our founders ID donations? will it be based on our private keys like normal angelshares donations?

It will be based upon Genesis block and the new public key which you will register to your name.

Ok, thank you!
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: toast on January 02, 2014, 02:36:34 am
Merry Christmas Keyhotee Founders!!
The first 10,000 AngelShares are set-aside proportionally for Keyhotee Founders.  Invictus Innovations shareholders are not eligible.  Donations to Keyhotee after Dec 24, 2013 at Midnight GMT don't count.

Quote
there will be 10,000 new AngelShares up for grabs in a new patron competition every day for 200 days.
5000 of them will be available to ProtoShare holders.
5000 of them will be available to Bitcoin holders. 
That's ultimately 2,000,000 total shares, just like ProtoShares.

This was never answered in the other thread.
10,000 + (10,000 * 200) != 2,000,000

One of the above numbers is wrong. Either there's 2,010,000 angelshares, or there will only be 199 days.

(5,000 AGS/PTS + 5,000 AGS/BTC) * 200 days = 2,000,000 AGS total

No, read the quote.

Quote
Merry Christmas Keyhotee Founders!!
The first 10,000 AngelShares are set-aside proportionally for Keyhotee Founders.  Invictus Innovations shareholders are not eligible.  Donations to Keyhotee after Dec 24, 2013 at Midnight GMT don't count.

bytemaster, please clarify
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: toast on January 02, 2014, 02:37:51 am
Merry Christmas Keyhotee Founders!!
The first 10,000 AngelShares are set-aside proportionally for Keyhotee Founders.  Invictus Innovations shareholders are not eligible.  Donations to Keyhotee after Dec 24, 2013 at Midnight GMT don't count.

Quote
there will be 10,000 new AngelShares up for grabs in a new patron competition every day for 200 days.
5000 of them will be available to ProtoShare holders.
5000 of them will be available to Bitcoin holders. 
That's ultimately 2,000,000 total shares, just like ProtoShares.

This was never answered in the other thread.
10,000 + (10,000 * 200) != 2,000,000

One of the above numbers is wrong. Either there's 2,010,000 angelshares, or there will only be 199 days.

(5,000 AGS/PTS + 5,000 AGS/BTC) * 200 days = 2,000,000 AGS total

No, read the quote.

Quote
Merry Christmas Keyhotee Founders!!
The first 10,000 AngelShares are set-aside proportionally for Keyhotee Founders.  Invictus Innovations shareholders are not eligible.  Donations to Keyhotee after Dec 24, 2013 at Midnight GMT don't count.

bytemaster, please clarify

10,000 set aside for keyhotee founders, but also separately 10,000 per day for 200 days (the first day being the "extended day").
This is not 2,000,000 total

edit: BM answered this, turns out keyhotee founders counted as day 1, xmas - jan 1 as day 2, then the rest are 3-200
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bitcool on January 02, 2014, 04:26:35 am
Interesting. 

Similarly Mastercoin has an exodus address which is hardcoded in the MSC client; if BTS client hardcodes the PTS angel address, what will happen to the BTC donations?
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on January 02, 2014, 04:29:15 am
Interesting. 

Similarly Mastercoin has an exodus address which is hardcoded in the MSC client; if BTS client hardcodes the PTS angel address, what will happen to the BTC donations?

The addresses are not hardcoded into BitShares, but the public keys of funds that sent to those address (whether PTS or BTC) are hard coded.

PTS and BTC donations will be used by Invictus to fund development and tracked in a public ledger.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: 520Bit on January 02, 2014, 06:17:09 am
Merry Christmas Keyhotee Founders!!
The first 10,000 AngelShares are set-aside proportionally for Keyhotee Founders.  Invictus Innovations shareholders are not eligible.  Donations to Keyhotee after Dec 24, 2013 at Midnight GMT don't count.

Quote
there will be 10,000 new AngelShares up for grabs in a new patron competition every day for 200 days.
5000 of them will be available to ProtoShare holders.
5000 of them will be available to Bitcoin holders. 
That's ultimately 2,000,000 total shares, just like ProtoShares.

This was never answered in the other thread.
10,000 + (10,000 * 200) != 2,000,000

One of the above numbers is wrong. Either there's 2,010,000 angelshares, or there will only be 199 days.

(5,000 AGS/PTS + 5,000 AGS/BTC) * 200 days = 2,000,000 AGS total

No, read the quote.

Quote
Merry Christmas Keyhotee Founders!!
The first 10,000 AngelShares are set-aside proportionally for Keyhotee Founders.  Invictus Innovations shareholders are not eligible.  Donations to Keyhotee after Dec 24, 2013 at Midnight GMT don't count.

bytemaster, please clarify

My understanding is,

'The first day' is everything before Dec 24, 2013.
'The second day' is everything from Dec 25, 2013 to Jan 1, 2014.
'The third day' is Jan 2, 2014.
'The fourth day' is Jan 3, 2014.

...

'The two-hundredth day' Jul 19, 2014.

Am I correct? Please advise.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on January 02, 2014, 06:18:10 am
Merry Christmas Keyhotee Founders!!
The first 10,000 AngelShares are set-aside proportionally for Keyhotee Founders.  Invictus Innovations shareholders are not eligible.  Donations to Keyhotee after Dec 24, 2013 at Midnight GMT don't count.

Quote
there will be 10,000 new AngelShares up for grabs in a new patron competition every day for 200 days.
5000 of them will be available to ProtoShare holders.
5000 of them will be available to Bitcoin holders. 
That's ultimately 2,000,000 total shares, just like ProtoShares.

This was never answered in the other thread.
10,000 + (10,000 * 200) != 2,000,000

One of the above numbers is wrong. Either there's 2,010,000 angelshares, or there will only be 199 days.

(5,000 AGS/PTS + 5,000 AGS/BTC) * 200 days = 2,000,000 AGS total

No, read the quote.

Quote
Merry Christmas Keyhotee Founders!!
The first 10,000 AngelShares are set-aside proportionally for Keyhotee Founders.  Invictus Innovations shareholders are not eligible.  Donations to Keyhotee after Dec 24, 2013 at Midnight GMT don't count.

bytemaster, please clarify

My understanding is,

'The first day' is everything before Dec 24, 2013.
'The second day' is everything from Dec 25, 2013 to Jan 1, 2014.
'The third day' is Jan 2, 2014.
'The fourth day' is Jan 3, 2014.

...

'The two-hundredth day' Jul 19, 2014.

Am I correct? Please advise.

I had not calculated it out through July 19, but you have the first 4 days right.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on January 02, 2014, 06:19:02 am
We took all donations for Founder IDs and are going to allocate them as if they were Angel donations.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: santaclause102 on January 03, 2014, 02:39:47 pm
It was said that Angel Shares are less likely to honored by other (than I3) DAC developers than PTS. Why?
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: Stan on January 03, 2014, 05:00:00 pm
It was said that Angel Shares are less likely to honored by other (than I3) DAC developers than PTS. Why?

Misconception. AGS was originally viewed as Invictus-specific.  We are only the caretakers, the management agents by which members of the community can crowd-fund common infrastructure and the ecosystem on which other DACs can quickly build. 100% of the funds raised are recycled back into the community to fund development and promotion by the community.   Once the toolkit, infrastructure and ecosystem are built it belongs to the stakeholder community, not Invictus.

So now, as a DAC developer do you want to build on top of that ecosystem without honoring those that sacrificed to build it?  How do you think those PTS and AGS holders collectively would view a new DAC that dissed their contributions?  Who else will understand and appreciate your new DAC if you alienate them?

Would you rather build your own ecosystem and come up with the money to do that all over again independently?  Why?  To save 20% that would otherwise be given away in mining lotteries in an attempt to attract attention from somehow knowledgable non-stakeholders?

These are question every developer must ask.  What do you think the wisest will choose?   :)



Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: santaclause102 on January 03, 2014, 05:18:52 pm
What it the "toolkit, infrastructure and ecosystem" you are talking about that other DAC devs would profit from? Is is "just" (can be a lot) the attention of PTS/AGS holders? OR is it that other DAC devs would build upon I3 codebase which PTS holders helped to finance?

This was an interesting clarification bu my original question was comparing AGS to PTS in their potential to be honored by DAC devs other than I3. I was asking about the difference of PTS and AGS in that respect...
 
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on January 03, 2014, 05:20:14 pm
What it the "toolkit, infrastructure and ecosystem" you are talking about that other DAC devs would profit from? Is is "just" (can be a lot) the attention of PTS/AGS holders? OR is it that other DAC devs would build upon I3 codebase which PTS holders helped to finance?

This was an interesting clarification bu my original question was comparing AGS to PTS in their potential to be honored by DAC devs other than I3. I was asking about the difference of PTS and AGS in that respect...

3rd parties built on our code would be subject to the SCSL license which would require them to honor PTS and AGS.
3rd parties built on Bitcoin would be free to do anything.

Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: santaclause102 on January 03, 2014, 06:08:41 pm
Is it I3's primary goal to have other developers building upon I3 code base? Or will PTS/AGS (both having the same potential here?) primarily be honored because of the attention the new DAC would get from honoring PTS?   
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on January 03, 2014, 06:24:48 pm
Is it I3's primary goal to have other developers building upon I3 code base? Or will PTS/AGS (both having the same potential here?) primarily be honored because of the attention the new DAC would get from honoring PTS?   

Our goal is to have many DACs built on our code.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: santaclause102 on January 03, 2014, 07:58:31 pm
Is it I3's primary goal to have other developers building upon I3 code base? Or will PTS/AGS (both having the same potential here?) primarily be honored because of the attention the new DAC would get from honoring PTS?   

Our goal is to have many DACs built on our code.

....by other developers than you?
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on January 03, 2014, 07:59:05 pm
Is it I3's primary goal to have other developers building upon I3 code base? Or will PTS/AGS (both having the same potential here?) primarily be honored because of the attention the new DAC would get from honoring PTS?   

Our goal is to have many DACs built on our code.

....by other developers than you?

Yes, we are already working with several 3rd parties.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: santaclause102 on January 03, 2014, 08:13:32 pm
Ok. Thanks. I'm still wrapping my head around it. My initial question was: Are those 3rd parties more likely to honor PTS or AGS with respect to the structure/qualities of both shares? 
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on January 03, 2014, 08:21:38 pm
Ok. Thanks. I'm still wrapping my head around it. My initial question was: Are those 3rd parties more likely to honor PTS or AGS with respect to the structure/qualities of both shares?

So far they plan on honoring both because they want my input / guidance and that is my primary condition to working with people.  They also want to use our code / team / market.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: santaclause102 on January 03, 2014, 08:35:09 pm
Ok. Great, thanks for the clarifications.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: Stan on January 03, 2014, 09:42:08 pm
Ok. Thanks. I'm still wrapping my head around it. My initial question was: Are those 3rd parties more likely to honor PTS or AGS with respect to the structure/qualities of both shares?

Its all about getting attention from everybody who is a player in the DAC universe.

Honoring either will get a new DAC positive attention.
Ignoring either will get a new DAC negative attention.

Over time, it will be much less about getting support from Invictus and much more about pleasing all those stakeholders.

If we were to vanish, it would still be all about those stakeholders. 

We are building a Decentralized Autonomous Community. 
That community will build the Distributed Autonomous Companies.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: Koontas on January 06, 2014, 11:20:43 pm
Alright, let's see what happens.


Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: 5chdn on January 12, 2014, 04:51:50 pm
Announcing tradable Angelshares (tAGS) Service, have a look. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2275.0
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: pariah99 on January 14, 2014, 04:22:24 am
This may be a really dumb question, but at what level of precision are AGS going to be calculated?  I am assuming 8 decimal places, but if it's less, I'm curious; also, if they're less, it would be nice to know if they are going to be truncated or rounded.

I only ask because I'm considering trickling in my daily mined PTS > AGS.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on January 14, 2014, 04:25:59 am
This may be a really dumb question, but at what level of precision are AGS going to be calculated?  I am assuming 8 decimal places, but if it's less, I'm curious; also, if they're less, it would be nice to know if they are going to be truncated or rounded.

I only ask because I'm considering trickling in my daily mined PTS > AGS.

This is a very good question and I think my answer is that you should be considerate and send every small donation from the SAME source address.  Then when we build the genesis block it will only be 1 output rather than many small ones.   I would rather not make a rule on this, but for the sake of clarity I am going to make the min threshold to be 0.001 AGS

Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: pariah99 on January 14, 2014, 05:10:40 am
Would that apply to the intermediate calculations as well (I hope not)?  At some point you're going to have to calculate the intermediate payments for the daily distribution, although this would be prior to the genesis block so it wouldn't really need to be coded in.

Besides, agsexplorer/angelshare.info have done all of the legwork for calculating the shares, and they're at least 8 decimal precision to boot.  I'm hoping that you just take a final tally using a similar method and then apply the truncation/rounding :3
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on January 14, 2014, 05:22:38 am
Would that apply to the intermediate calculations as well (I hope not)?  At some point you're going to have to calculate the intermediate payments for the daily distribution, although this would be prior to the genesis block so it wouldn't really need to be coded in.

Besides, agsexplorer/angelshare.info have done all of the legwork for calculating the shares, and they're at least 8 decimal precision to boot.  I'm hoping that you just take a final tally using a similar method and then apply the truncation/rounding :3

Does not apply to intermediate calculations.  I just want to minimize dust in the new chains.  I will not truncate or round so if you have 1.111111111 PTS you end up with 1.1111111 BTS  but if you only have .0001 PTS you end up with 0 AGS.

I say all of this as merely a proposal to encourage people to combine their balances to one address prior to launch to minimize the size of the genesis block in new chains.   Of course every chain creator can choose how to round or if to round, so perhaps I should set no official policy.   
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: dxtr on January 14, 2014, 05:06:18 pm
If I understand correctly, then maximum blockchain for every new chain is fixed, and if it reaches it's maximum size, then the oldest blocks, one by one, disappear into nothingness.

If this is right reasoning then why should anyone care about genesis block size, since sooner or later it will go?

Shouldn't then everyone be given even the smallest amount of any promised asset?

Who can predict if, over time, even 0.00000001PTS will have or have not a value of some significance?

And also genesis block will be the same for every new chain respecting Consensus, then it's initialization will only be done once in history, with optional later additions to it.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on January 14, 2014, 05:26:34 pm
This is a good point, given the roll over nature we could potentially allow full precision.  I just don't want a 300 MB genesis block full of meaningless .00000001 inputs that cannot be spent because they are lower than the minimum transaction fee.

;)
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: sschechter on January 14, 2014, 05:39:37 pm
This may be a really dumb question, but at what level of precision are AGS going to be calculated?  I am assuming 8 decimal places, but if it's less, I'm curious; also, if they're less, it would be nice to know if they are going to be truncated or rounded.

I only ask because I'm considering trickling in my daily mined PTS > AGS.

This is a very good question and I think my answer is that you should be considerate and send every small donation from the SAME source address.  Then when we build the genesis block it will only be 1 output rather than many small ones.   I would rather not make a rule on this, but for the sake of clarity I am going to make the min threshold to be 0.001 AGS



How do you specify this?  I keep having new addresses being generated.  All of my donations have been at least 1PTS or greater, so I'm not worried about the decimal issue, but its getting to be inconvenient tracking all of my donations.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on January 14, 2014, 05:50:51 pm
This may be a really dumb question, but at what level of precision are AGS going to be calculated?  I am assuming 8 decimal places, but if it's less, I'm curious; also, if they're less, it would be nice to know if they are going to be truncated or rounded.

I only ask because I'm considering trickling in my daily mined PTS > AGS.

This is a very good question and I think my answer is that you should be considerate and send every small donation from the SAME source address.  Then when we build the genesis block it will only be 1 output rather than many small ones.   I would rather not make a rule on this, but for the sake of clarity I am going to make the min threshold to be 0.001 AGS



How do you specify this?  I keep having new addresses being generated.  All of my donations have been at least 1PTS or greater, so I'm not worried about the decimal issue, but its getting to be inconvenient tracking all of my donations.

This was a bounty that produced a variation on the PTS wallet to handle this.  If you use Armory with coincontrol for BTC that is another option.  I personally do not have the answers here.  People in the TechSupport section are being paid to help with these issues.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AngelShares & BitShares Allocation
Post by: pariah99 on January 14, 2014, 05:52:07 pm
How do you specify this?  I keep having new addresses being generated.  All of my donations have been at least 1PTS or greater, so I'm not worried about the decimal issue, but its getting to be inconvenient tracking all of my donations.

You could transfer your PTS to a single wallet before donating it to the AGS address.  If you're talking about multiple addresses for the same wallet, I don't think it will be that much of a problem since they all share the same private key.

Regarding what Bytemaster said about allowing future DACs to determine how to interpret digit significance: I think it would be useful to have a canonical AGS distribution published by Invictus; otherwise, there might be some fragmentation in how people interpret the social contract.

To be clear - I'm not suggesting that you require DACs to award to a certain decimal significance - merely suggesting that there be an official summation per address of AGS.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: mx1000 on January 24, 2014, 09:37:38 pm
How can I acces the AGS ? Or is that later added ?

Also how can I check howmuch AGS I have recieved that day of donation (actually) ?

I don't understand...

Also in the end whats this VS protoshares :o?
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: cryptkeeper on January 24, 2014, 11:02:17 pm
If we donated from both pts and btc address, will it be possible to import both private keys into the bitsharex account at the same time to claim our ags?
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: valtr on January 25, 2014, 01:43:07 pm
If we donated from both pts and btc address, will it be possible to import both private keys into the bitsharex account at the same time to claim our ags?

Yes it is possible. AGS are divided equally on daily basis among PTS and BTC donation address. The only requirement is that it is your own walet.

This is original bytemaster statement:

Don't send donations from anywhere but your own wallet!
DAC developers will initialize their genesis blocks to honor the key where your donation came from!
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: gulu on January 26, 2014, 05:52:57 pm
It may have been answered elsewhere. My question is who owns the BTS allocated to the PTS that were sent for AGS exchange, assuming not all PTS are spent before BTS launch.  Is it invictus? Or do these PTS receive BTS at all?
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: sumantso on January 26, 2014, 06:55:46 pm
It may have been answered elsewhere. My question is who owns the BTS allocated to the PTS that were sent for AGS exchange, assuming not all PTS are spent before BTS launch.  Is it invictus? Or do these PTS receive BTS at all?

I3 gets them (the PTS and the subsequent BTSX)
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: santaclause102 on January 26, 2014, 11:21:26 pm
They keep them.
See OP:
Quote
"What happens to all the donations?"

100% of the proceeds go to growing the crypto-equity industry. Zero percent  will be retained as profits Invictus.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: BTCguru on January 27, 2014, 12:07:56 am

They keep them.
See OP:
Quote
"What happens to all the donations?"

100% of the proceeds go to growing the crypto-equity industry. Zero percent  will be retained as profits Invictus.
That means these BTSX, together with Donated PTS/BTC, will be allocated in an asset pool that 3i promises to grow DAC industry, but not as company profit. Am I intepreting correct?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: santaclause102 on January 27, 2014, 12:14:37 am

They keep them.
See OP:
Quote
"What happens to all the donations?"

100% of the proceeds go to growing the crypto-equity industry. Zero percent  will be retained as profits Invictus.
That means these BTSX, together with Donated PTS/BTC, will be allocated in an asset pool that 3i promises to grow DAC industry, but not as company profit. Am I intepreting correct?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

Correct. That is what the OP said. But maybe an I3 staff member can confirm that...
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on January 27, 2014, 12:26:31 am
Correct. Not as profit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: JakeThePanda on January 28, 2014, 05:32:36 pm
Hi guys.  I'm not very technically savvy, so I'm a little nervous about donating PTS/BTC.  Once I donate, then what do I have to do?
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on January 28, 2014, 05:35:59 pm
Hi guys.  I'm not very technically savvy, so I'm a little nervous about donating PTS/BTC.  Once I donate, then what do I have to do?

Assuming you donate from Bitcoin Qt or ProtoShares Qt and not from an exchange, all you have to do is backup your wallet.dat file.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: JakeThePanda on January 28, 2014, 05:50:01 pm
Hi guys.  I'm not very technically savvy, so I'm a little nervous about donating PTS/BTC.  Once I donate, then what do I have to do?

Assuming you donate from Bitcoin Qt or ProtoShares Qt and not from an exchange, all you have to do is backup your wallet.dat file.

Then I just wait for my AGS and BTS to appear in my wallet?
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on January 28, 2014, 07:07:07 pm
Hi guys.  I'm not very technically savvy, so I'm a little nervous about donating PTS/BTC.  Once I donate, then what do I have to do?

Assuming you donate from Bitcoin Qt or ProtoShares Qt and not from an exchange, all you have to do is backup your wallet.dat file.

Then I just wait for my AGS and BTS to appear in my wallet?

When you download the BTS wallet after launch (March) then you will import your wallet.dat and have BTS.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: Brent.Allsop on January 30, 2014, 01:26:16 am

It says: "Be vigilant! Watch for slow days and anyone can snag some great bargains."

Also people mention things like some guy is buying 10 BTC worth each day.

How do you get this kind of information?

Brent Allsop

Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on January 30, 2014, 01:54:03 am

It says: "Be vigilant! Watch for slow days and anyone can snag some great bargains."

Also people mention things like some guy is buying 10 BTC worth each day.

How do you get this kind of information?

Brent Allsop

agsexplorer.com
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: Markus on January 30, 2014, 02:29:30 am

It says: "Be vigilant! Watch for slow days and anyone can snag some great bargains."

Also people mention things like some guy is buying 10 BTC worth each day.

How do you get this kind of information?

Brent Allsop

Start here https://blockchain.info/de/address/1KVR6eyJMuXJJGNFjAGpS9F167GqzEg2d9
and click yourself through to the addresses receiving the change. You'll see that one guy has invested about 275 BTC into AGS and has at least 205 BTC left to spend.
If he keeps it up he will end up with about  +5% of all BitShares :)
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: clout on January 30, 2014, 08:05:50 pm
Do AGS Holders get test bts
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on January 30, 2014, 08:08:28 pm
Do AGS Holders get test bts

Yes
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: Brent.Allsop on January 30, 2014, 09:33:11 pm

After Bitshares are trading...

If you sell some shares, do you also share the rights to be included in subsequent DAO Genesis blocks?

Or are the new DAO Genesis blocks only seeded form the holders of shares in the Bitshares Genesis block?

Or something else?

Brent Allsop

Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: Stan on January 30, 2014, 09:45:51 pm

After Bitshares are trading...

If you sell some shares, do you also share the rights to be included in subsequent DAO Genesis blocks?

Or are the new DAO Genesis blocks only seeded form the holders of shares in the Bitshares Genesis block?

Or something else?

Brent Allsop

PTS and AGS spawn all.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: Brent.Allsop on January 31, 2014, 12:08:58 pm


OK, they "span all".

So does that mean there will be one fixed "genesis block" set of participants, that will be used for all subsequent DAOs?  And if you sell the first Bitshares, once they are trading, you will not be selling your right to have those shares in subsequent genesis blocks, be owned by you?

Brent Allsop

Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: Stan on January 31, 2014, 05:14:43 pm


OK, they "span all".

So does that mean there will be one fixed "genesis block" set of participants, that will be used for all subsequent DAOs?  And if you sell the first Bitshares, once they are trading, you will not be selling your right to have those shares in subsequent genesis blocks, be owned by you?

Brent Allsop

If you are releasing an upgrade to an existing DAC, you should naturally honor the current BTS ownership status not reset it to PTS and AGS holders at that time.

If you are releasing a completely new DAC you would naturally honor PTS and AGS holders at that time, not BTS.

Where it gets really interesting is when you use BitShares infrastructure to launch a directly competing DAC.  Then you might use the remaining uncommitted 80% to honor your competitor's shareholders and instantly inherit their user base.  As long as the first 20% honored PTS and AGS at that time you would probably achieve a winning consensus.

Your actual mileage may vary.  It is up to each developer to find a consensus their targeted base will accept without leaving a competitor able to offer that base a cloned better deal.


Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: Brent.Allsop on January 31, 2014, 07:32:39 pm

Hi Stan,

Thanks for all the help with this.  I thought this was a simple question, but it's much more complicated.

So when new DACS are created, what determines who get's the initial shares.  It looks like it will be different for each DAC?

And is there a list of possible DACS, possibly prioritized, which AGS and PTS owners will get in on?

Brent Allsop

Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: Stan on January 31, 2014, 10:57:01 pm

Hi Stan,

Thanks for all the help with this.  I thought this was a simple question, but it's much more complicated.

So when new DACS are created, what determines who get's the initial shares.  It looks like it will be different for each DAC?

And is there a list of possible DACS, possibly prioritized, which AGS and PTS owners will get in on?

Brent Allsop


At least 10% of the BitShares should be allocated to holders of BitShares PTS.
At least 10% of the BitShares should be allocated to holders of BitShares AGS.
The remaining BitShares should be customized to the needs of each BitShares chain.

The allocation depends on who holds them when each DAC is initialized.  Developers decide the last 80% so as to be most competitive.  If they get this wrong someone will offer a better deal to attract supporters and customers.

So, developers compete to have the best answer to your question!

Our forum is full of alternative DAC discussions.  The July Beyond Bitcoin Summit will include a competition to launch ~5 more...




Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: Brent.Allsop on February 01, 2014, 01:48:17 am

Thanks, Stan, that helps.

Is there a list of DACs somewhere that will abide by this allocation process?

What priority will they be developed, and how much work will be put towards each, and how will all that be decided?

Brent

Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: Brent.Allsop on February 01, 2014, 11:32:26 am
The lack of an answer to this question is leading me to guess there isn't yet a formal list of proposed DACs?  A Canonizer.com survey topic would be one possible way of crowd sourcing and brain storming such a list.  Anyone could start a new camp for any proposed DAC.  Everyone supporting such could help wiki it.  Everyone could then support the camps in the order of importance relative to all other DACs, giving a quantitative relative ranking of interest in each.

Each camp could concisely describe the design of their DAC.  If any diversity of opinion showed up about the design of any camp, this diversity of opinion could be pushed to lower level supporting sub camps, where the amount of interest in each different opinion could be quantitatively tracked.  That would avoid the destruction of support for the DAC, due to any differences of opinion on the specs of each DAC.

We could create a super camp for DACs people thought should adhere to the angel share / photosphere contract you just described.  That super camp could concisely describe the contract.  That way all DACS willing to support such could be listed as supporting sub camps of that super camp.  If someone wanted to create a DAC that didn't support the contract, they could add this as a sibling / competitor to this contract supper camp, indicating such.  In that way, if anyone thought the same DAC should adhere to that contract, they could 'fork' the camp, one being under (in a supporting position to) the contract supper camp, and one not.  This would provide a quantitative measure of how much support there was for both, relative to all other camps.

Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: Stan on February 01, 2014, 04:02:36 pm

Thanks, Stan, that helps.

Is there a list of DACs somewhere that will abide by this allocation process?

What priority will they be developed, and how much work will be put towards each, and how will all that be decided?

Brent

This month's newsletter will be out very soon. 
You should get some better insights from it.
 ;)

Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: Stan on February 01, 2014, 04:16:33 pm
The lack of an answer to this question is leading me to guess there isn't yet a formal list of proposed DACs?  A Canonizer.com survey topic would be one possible way of crowd sourcing and brain storming such a list.  Anyone could start a new camp for any proposed DAC.  Everyone supporting such could help wiki it.  Everyone could then support the camps in the order of importance relative to all other DACs, giving a quantitative relative ranking of interest in each.

Each camp could concisely describe the design of their DAC.  If any diversity of opinion showed up about the design of any camp, this diversity of opinion could be pushed to lower level supporting sub camps, where the amount of interest in each different opinion could be quantitatively tracked.  That would avoid the destruction of support for the DAC, due to any differences of opinion on the specs of each DAC.

We could create a super camp for DACs people thought should adhere to the angel share / photosphere contract you just described.  That super camp could concisely describe the contract.  That way all DACS willing to support such could be listed as supporting sub camps of that super camp.  If someone wanted to create a DAC that didn't support the contract, they could add this as a sibling / competitor to this contract supper camp, indicating such.  In that way, if anyone thought the same DAC should adhere to that contract, they could 'fork' the camp, one being under (in a supporting position to) the contract supper camp, and one not.  This would provide a quantitative measure of how much support there was for both, relative to all other camps.

We want to encourage decentralization of developers.  Publishing a long list of our plans might discourage others from picking one of our ideas to develop on their own.  So we have described many of them but will leave them up for grabs until we have found the right people to start work on one.  Watch the next newsletter to see our plan for this.

Meanwhile, I encourage you to start your proposed brainstorming camp.  More discussion and ideas are good for us all.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: Brent.Allsop on February 01, 2014, 09:17:37 pm


OK, Thanks Stan.

So I've started a draft of this Bitshare DAC brainstorm survey as described here:

http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/164/2

Remember, this is just a draft, so if anything needs fixing, just let me know and I'll fix it, or you can wiki the change yourself.

If anyone wants help creating a new DAC camp, or improving an existing one, just let me know.  All that is needed to start a camp is a camp name (limit 25 chars) and a camp title (limit 65 chars) to get a camp started.

Upwards,

Brent Allsop


Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: NineLives on February 10, 2014, 12:23:12 am
Question with some confusion.

Can I donate PTS here:  http://www1.agsexplorer.com/

How do I get paid AGS shares.  Wallet? What am I missing?
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: Troglodactyl on February 10, 2014, 12:31:00 am
Question with some confusion.

Can I donate PTS here:  http://www1.agsexplorer.com/

How do I get paid AGS shares.  Wallet? What am I missing?

Official information on AGS and PTS donations is here: http://invictus.io/bitshares-ags.php

Once the new DACs are out, you will import the wallet files from which you made the AGS donations into the new DAC applications.  Doing this will give you access to your shares in the new DAC, allocated to you in the genesis block.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: NineLives on February 10, 2014, 12:39:32 am
Thank you for that,

Another question.  What times are a full day counted?  UTC?

Also, say I donated 100 PTS.  And so far there is someone who posts 400.  I assume the AGS bank is split?
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on February 10, 2014, 12:55:52 am
Thank you for that,

Another question.  What times are a full day counted?  UTC?

Also, say I donated 100 PTS.  And so far there is someone who posts 400.  I assume the AGS bank is split?

Yes, you would receive 20% and they would receive 80%
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: NineLives on February 10, 2014, 01:05:31 am
Thank you for that,

Another question.  What times are a full day counted?  UTC?

Also, say I donated 100 PTS.  And so far there is someone who posts 400.  I assume the AGS bank is split?

Yes, you would receive 20% and they would receive 80%

And the day is UTC midnight till midnight?
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on February 10, 2014, 01:15:43 am
Thank you for that,

Another question.  What times are a full day counted?  UTC?

Also, say I donated 100 PTS.  And so far there is someone who posts 400.  I assume the AGS bank is split?

Yes, you would receive 20% and they would receive 80%

And the day is UTC midnight till midnight?

More or less... actual time depends upon when blocks are found, not when the trx is sent.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: cygnify on February 20, 2014, 09:15:20 pm
Do we have up to the 28th to send to this address? Thank you.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: xeroc on February 21, 2014, 07:37:32 am
Do we have up to the 28th to send to this address? Thank you.
Yep

you can also send there afterwards, but those will not be counted for bitsharesX but for other DACs that may be released
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: youlead514 on February 23, 2014, 04:01:52 am
I'm still slightly confused.  Why would we donate PTS?  If we don't donate don't we still get a % in AGS?  What happens to our PTS after this?
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on February 23, 2014, 08:02:36 am
(http://oi57.tinypic.com/2ptxno9.jpg)
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: CryptoN8 on February 23, 2014, 03:06:43 pm
Nice infographic! This is much easier to show people and explain, my back of the napkin thing just wasn't working. ;)
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: cygnify on February 23, 2014, 10:18:31 pm
I'm still slightly confused.  Why would we donate PTS?  If we don't donate don't we still get a % in AGS?  What happens to our PTS after this?

Yea can someone else clarify this point? Because wouldn't it be better to hold onto the PTS rather than donate?
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: Ohpinot on February 27, 2014, 07:07:05 am
The ratio is much much much better for AGS than PTS.  1 PTS = 1.5 BTS and 1 AGS = 3.5.  I highly recommend switching to AGS before the switch.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on February 27, 2014, 07:15:49 am
The ratio is much much much better for AGS than PTS.  1 PTS = 1.5 BTS and 1 AGS = 3.5.  I highly recommend switching to AGS before the switch.

Short term the ratio is better, long term they are equal.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: 41136169 on February 28, 2014, 08:39:28 pm
Dear sir:
I met trouble in donating BTC , I didn't give fee in transport, after 2 hours, the BTC sending condition  still was Unconfirmed Transaction!
I don't know whether it will arrive your address on time before BTS deadline time(24:00)
would you please know whether i can get BTS even the BTC still  be unconfirmed transation after 24:00 Feb 28th ? thanks


my wallet : 16YBpNdzKe58KmwPA3cBaf6zhqXCdTHiGp
TX:               8e66b24069df547f4ac98239d7824fb18c7bafc1121b7af8212d9298a307a7ba
sending time:2014-02-28 18:00:51[/img][/img]
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: Gdemen on March 02, 2014, 06:23:02 am
I'm assuming its to late to acquire AGS? :(
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: CryptoN8 on March 02, 2014, 06:26:48 am
I'm assuming its to late to acquire AGS? :(
You can donate for AGS, but that will only count for future DACs, not for Bitshares XT, that just had the snapshot at the end of February.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: 41136169 on March 02, 2014, 12:46:17 pm
OK, my donating have been confirmed on March 1st , even I can not gain BTS, but I have got more AGS.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: CryptoN8 on March 02, 2014, 05:39:23 pm
OK, my donating have been confirmed on March 1st , even I can not gain BTS, but I have got more AGS.
Just remember that the wallet you made the donation from, either in PTS or BTC, needs to be backed up and protected from here on out (i.e. more than one backup location). The proof of ownership now resides with you and the control you have over your private keys to those addresses.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: totoleheros on March 09, 2014, 09:23:37 am
Hi all,

just wanted to make notice to the maintener of this site http://www1.agsexplorer.com/ that the countdown is quite weird ....  :o

hth
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: gaba on March 13, 2014, 02:06:44 pm
I didn't recived AGS for my PTS donations.


http://www1.agsexplorer.com/balances/PuBGB7BWoqRfvkzoyyMCwkg9LPL9QywDex

the dates 2014-03-10 and 2014-03-11 are missing.

Transaction form 3/11/2014 6:04:55 PM:  https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Transactions/cadcd6e77ac953fccb42378dcda7a8fbc366693b0af2c0d8d330a21d090f727e

Transaction form 3/12/2014 6:40:45 PM: https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Transactions/9ab33f1a8542080c5abd0425433cb7e89eb18e2a233366677f3f9d2998dd9469


What can i do?
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: thisisausername on March 13, 2014, 02:26:38 pm
I didn't recived AGS for my PTS donations.


http://www1.agsexplorer.com/balances/PuBGB7BWoqRfvkzoyyMCwkg9LPL9QywDex

the dates 2014-03-10 and 2014-03-11 are missing.

Transaction form 3/11/2014 6:04:55 PM:  https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Transactions/cadcd6e77ac953fccb42378dcda7a8fbc366693b0af2c0d8d330a21d090f727e

Transaction form 3/12/2014 6:40:45 PM: https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Transactions/9ab33f1a8542080c5abd0425433cb7e89eb18e2a233366677f3f9d2998dd9469


What can i do?

You didn't send all your PTS from the same address.

For example, here (http://www1.agsexplorer.com/balances/PfCT9N9DSspQeBpwknRihfXqnvoHa2SEz8) is your 3/11 donation.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: gaba on March 13, 2014, 02:31:11 pm
No, my address is PuBGB7BWoqRfvkzoyyMCwkg9LPL9QywDex. I sent PTS today and everything is fine. I didn't change anything. I only have two address in my wallet PuBGB7BWoqRfvkzoyyMCwkg9LPL9QywDex and Pc157vQqqbGBdgsSxifgePXyxQ5xsCGP1m
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: gaba on March 13, 2014, 03:07:24 pm
I didn't recived AGS for my PTS donations.


http://www1.agsexplorer.com/balances/PuBGB7BWoqRfvkzoyyMCwkg9LPL9QywDex

the dates 2014-03-10 and 2014-03-11 are missing.

Transaction form 3/11/2014 6:04:55 PM:  https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Transactions/cadcd6e77ac953fccb42378dcda7a8fbc366693b0af2c0d8d330a21d090f727e

Transaction form 3/12/2014 6:40:45 PM: https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Transactions/9ab33f1a8542080c5abd0425433cb7e89eb18e2a233366677f3f9d2998dd9469


What can i do?

You didn't send all your PTS from the same address.

For example, here (http://www1.agsexplorer.com/balances/PfCT9N9DSspQeBpwknRihfXqnvoHa2SEz8) is your 3/11 donation.

That is unbelievable. For me off course. I find the private key for that address in my wallet trough console. And how can I find another address for 3/12 donation. Thank you very much.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: pgbit on March 13, 2014, 03:28:31 pm
How many Angelshares do you think you should have?
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: gaba on March 13, 2014, 05:39:59 pm
286,35064

http://www1.agsexplorer.com/balances/PuBGB7BWoqRfvkzoyyMCwkg9LPL9QywDex

160.32020151 AGS is on my balance

Transaction form 3/11/2014 6:04:55 PM:  https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Transactions/cadcd6e77ac953fccb42378dcda7a8fbc366693b0af2c0d8d330a21d090f727e

Transaction form 3/12/2014 6:40:45 PM: https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Transactions/9ab33f1a8542080c5abd0425433cb7e89eb18e2a233366677f3f9d2998dd9469

Beside that I paid for  56.42294 AGS + 69.6077449 6AGS from 3/11, 3/12 donations


Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: xeroc on April 25, 2014, 07:48:28 am
The OP is linked from the AGS-explorer webpage .. could we please update the links to go from invictus.io to bitshares.org ...

I alos dont understand why you down own invictus.io any longer ?!?
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: toast on April 25, 2014, 07:50:21 am
we never owned it and super3 was surprisingly unresponsive
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: xeroc on April 25, 2014, 09:21:09 am
we never owned it and super3 was surprisingly unresponsive
Woops .. too bad .. but you own bitshares.org .. do you?

anyway .. updating (all) the links should be considered important when interested in newcomers!
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on April 25, 2014, 01:24:23 pm
we never owned it and super3 was surprisingly unresponsive
Woops .. too bad .. but you own bitshares.org .. do you?

anyway .. updating (all) the links should be considered important when interested in newcomers!

We own bitshares.org and other domains.   We had trusted Super3 as a core member of the team, but he turned out to be an opportunist.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: xeroc on April 25, 2014, 07:07:10 pm
Thats shit :-(
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: mf-tzo on April 26, 2014, 06:28:02 pm
When I first learned about PTS (in November if I remember correctly) I asked on Cryptsy what they knew about it... Most people didn't know anything but there was a guy that said "anyone who deals with super3 is an idiot. The guy has scammed a lot of people in the past.Enough said". I didn't pay much attention back then because I liked the whole concept of PTS, but It seems that that guy knew better... I think that your relationship with super 3 must have done some damage to your publicity...
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on April 26, 2014, 10:38:37 pm
Yeah,   Unfortunately my only knowledge of him was that he was referred to me by Adam b Levine whom I trust.   


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: xeroc on April 27, 2014, 06:35:19 am
He is very active in bitcoin development and also in the xpm and ppc community (also domains)
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: cass on April 27, 2014, 08:38:33 am
i'm ready to help/assist :) with all ongoing web development if needed...just said again ^^
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: ppimp on June 21, 2014, 03:51:14 pm
Hi,
 How can I determine if I buy AGS on day X, what DACs it will be honored in by Invictus?
Is Invictus waiting till the end of AGS being offered to take a snapshot to have it new DACs?

What DACs do PTS shareholders have stake in that AGS buyers wont get?
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bytemaster on June 21, 2014, 10:23:59 pm
Hi,
 How can I determine if I buy AGS on day X, what DACs it will be honored in by Invictus?
Is Invictus waiting till the end of AGS being offered to take a snapshot to have it new DACs?

What DACs do PTS shareholders have stake in that AGS buyers wont get?

There will only be 2 snapshots for AGS... Feb 28th and Day 200.   Everything except BTS XT should honor AGS from Day 200.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: bitmeat on June 22, 2014, 08:15:29 am

Hi,
 How can I determine if I buy AGS on day X, what DACs it will be honored in by Invictus?
Is Invictus waiting till the end of AGS being offered to take a snapshot to have it new DACs?

What DACs do PTS shareholders have stake in that AGS buyers wont get?

There will only be 2 snapshots for AGS... Feb 28th and Day 200.   Everything except BTS XT should honor AGS from Day 200.

Well there was a snapshot for lotto shares but we haven't heard anything from FreeTrade ever since.

Also BTS XT is the testing but the live BTS X would also honor the Feb 28th snapshot right?
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: toast on June 22, 2014, 05:17:56 pm

Hi,
 How can I determine if I buy AGS on day X, what DACs it will be honored in by Invictus?
Is Invictus waiting till the end of AGS being offered to take a snapshot to have it new DACs?

What DACs do PTS shareholders have stake in that AGS buyers wont get?

There will only be 2 snapshots for AGS... Feb 28th and Day 200.   Everything except BTS XT should honor AGS from Day 200.

Well there was a snapshot for lotto shares but we haven't heard anything from FreeTrade ever since.

Also BTS XT is the testing but the live BTS X would also honor the Feb 28th snapshot right?

Live BTS X will honor XT (assuming XT itself doesn't just get upgraded)
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: neo_lee on June 23, 2014, 05:07:36 am
Don't bully investors
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: super3 on June 26, 2014, 03:21:06 pm
I have to say I'm a little disappointing by the FUD. Want to hear my side of the story?

we never owned it and super3 was surprisingly unresponsive

I worked for Invictus as a freelancer around Winter 2013. I was off on winter break and had a bunch of extra time to work on Bitcoin stuff. I worked on all of the Invictus web stuff including protoshares.net and invictus.io. They had a very poor web presence, and it looked pretty bad to people who were interested in our platform. It was practically an emergency.

Bytemaster agreed to pay me my standard freelance rates, and I started working. I worked as hard as possible working 16+ hour days 7 days a week trying to get two websites up to par including advertising it myself. Invictus started using my in development websites because they were better than current stuff. I reduced my bill by 1/3 for and Dan paid for the hours I did so far. The agreement was would be still be eligible for the website bounty, and Invcitus was paying me for site because they were currently using it and showing it to users and investors.

Got to a workable version of the website, and Dan decided that he didn't want to pay out the bounty for the Invictus website I completed. Invictus continued to use the website for a time without paying being for either the bounty, or the hours I completed after the payment for initial hours for the protoshares website and start of the invictus website.

Dan wanted me to drop of of college to work with Invictus. I almost took it, but decided to finish because I only had a semester left. I made it clear that I couldn't work on Invictus web stuff, AND do class work everyday. I was unresponsive because I was doing class, and working on other paid projects. I graduate in 3 weeks from Morehouse College with a Bachelors degree in Computer Science. I'm pretty happy with the choices I've made.

Am I mad about anything? Absolutely not. I learned a ton about Bitcoin, an still am an Bitshares supporter. I also learned you should always make written agreements even with people you trust. I don't think anyone acted in bad faith, but miscommunication definitely left some sour feelings.

I transferred all domains except invictus.io(which I still have yet to be paid for the work that I did). The entire time Dan had access to all web servers, and code for the websites.

So if you want me to transfer invictus.io just honor the agreement that I made with Gregory months ago.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: super3 on June 26, 2014, 04:29:09 pm
we never owned it and super3 was surprisingly unresponsive
Woops .. too bad .. but you own bitshares.org .. do you?

anyway .. updating (all) the links should be considered important when interested in newcomers!

We own bitshares.org and other domains.   We had trusted Super3 as a core member of the team, but he turned out to be an opportunist.
I gave you all bitshares.org and all the domains after I didn't have enough time to work on the website anymore after I went back to school. You have always had full access to the servers and code. I registered Invictus.io for the bounty site, which you used and never fully paid for.

Opportunist? If Bitshares was a volunteer organization that didn't make a profit you would have a point, but it isn't. I worked as hard as  I possible could for you, so I don't appreciate being thrown under the bus.


When I first learned about PTS (in November if I remember correctly) I asked on Cryptsy what they knew about it... Most people didn't know anything but there was a guy that said "anyone who deals with super3 is an idiot. The guy has scammed a lot of people in the past.Enough said". I didn't pay much attention back then because I liked the whole concept of PTS, but It seems that that guy knew better... I think that your relationship with super 3 must have done some damage to your publicity...
Any proof would be great.
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: xeroc on June 26, 2014, 04:35:00 pm
Thx for clearing that up .. +5% regained in trust ..

Good to have you back in the boat ..

Edit: sure you were right to focus on your studies!
Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: mf-tzo on June 26, 2014, 05:23:24 pm
Quote
When I first learned about PTS (in November if I remember correctly) I asked on Cryptsy what they knew about it... Most people didn't know anything but there was a guy that said "anyone who deals with super3 is an idiot. The guy has scammed a lot of people in the past.Enough said". I didn't pay much attention back then because I liked the whole concept of PTS, but It seems that that guy knew better... I think that your relationship with super 3 must have done some damage to your publicity...
Any proof would be great.

I have nothing against you and no proof to anything. I just mentioned what a guy from Cryptsy said after your behavior against I3. It was very strange asking back then to people what they thought about PTS and I got these replies. That they didn't want to do anything with PTS because you were involved...
It could be that you have scammed people. It could have been only trolling. No proof from my side.
What did you do anyway to upset these people?

In any case as long as you are not scamming people and this was just trolling it will be good to have you on board. But I think it will be good for you to clear your name on the net and clear things up with those who spill dust on your name.

Title: Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
Post by: xeroc on June 26, 2014, 05:37:00 pm
Cryptsy not realy has a good reputation ..