BitShares Forum
Main => Technical Support => Topic started by: clout on October 17, 2015, 12:10:45 am
-
Why is the margin call price for cny 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just had a one of my short positions called even though my margin price was 0.025 BTS/CNY which the market never hit and the collateral was sold at 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just lost a lot of money...
-
Why is the margin call price for cny 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just had a one of my short positions called even though my margin price was 0.025 BTS/CNY which the market never hit and the collateral was sold at 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just lost a lot of money...
you lost, others won because you lost... (up to 50%!)
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19102.msg245802.html#msg245802
-
Yeah that's bull. I'm pretty close to being done with bts. That's a bad rule. Honestly the bitasset market shouldn't be operational til yunbi and btc38 have upgraded
-
Yeah that's bull. I'm pretty close to being done with bts. That's a bad rule. Honestly the bitasset market shouldn't be operational til yunbi and btc38 have upgraded
tell this to the witnesses .. I open a thread asking them not to publish feeds right after launch :-(
Anwyway .. in general the launch was a success and we only suffer liquidity .. those that pay the bill are the super bulls (me included) and that sucks .. still I am confident because I know the tech :D
-
So liquidity is causing this problem? How do we fix?
-
people can sell their bitAssets for bts then dump on poloniex for like 135% return. maybe bts price will continue to fall short term?
-
Yeah that's bull. I'm pretty close to being done with bts. That's a bad rule. Honestly the bitasset market shouldn't be operational til yunbi and btc38 have upgraded
tell this to the witnesses .. I open a thread asking them not to publish feeds right after launch :-(
Anwyway .. in general the launch was a success and we only suffer liquidity .. those that pay the bill are the super bulls (me included) and that sucks .. still I am confident because I know the tech :D
You blame this to witnesses? Changing the rule to some idiotic rule? Give me a break man.
I know you are fan boy as much as the next guy...but changing the rules (without any notice) mind you to a rule that defines "I am as stupid as hell" ...
-
people can sell their bitAssets for bts then dump on poloniex for like 135% return. maybe bts price will continue to fall short term?
fall until all bitasset disapear, all short position be murdered.
and I have a warnning, don't borrow bitasset to buy cheap BTS, you'll be the next shorter be murdered.
another way to end this is pump the price from poloniex, keep all shorter safe. but still nobody dare to borrow bitasset again.
bitUSD will never have a black swan, because it will disapear.
-
Yeah that's bull. I'm pretty close to being done with bts. That's a bad rule. Honestly the bitasset market shouldn't be operational til yunbi and btc38 have upgraded
tell this to the witnesses .. I open a thread asking them not to publish feeds right after launch :-(
Anwyway .. in general the launch was a success and we only suffer liquidity .. those that pay the bill are the super bulls (me included) and that sucks .. still I am confident because I know the tech :D
You blame this to witnesses? Changing the rule to some idiotic rule? Give me a break man.
I know you are fan boy as much as the next guy...but changing the rules (without any notice) mind you to a rule that defines "I am as stupid as hell" ...
We should have known this shit was serious when bm brought it up during the mumble without even being asked...
-
Yeah that's bull. I'm pretty close to being done with bts. That's a bad rule. Honestly the bitasset market shouldn't be operational til yunbi and btc38 have upgraded
tell this to the witnesses .. I open a thread asking them not to publish feeds right after launch :-(
Anwyway .. in general the launch was a success and we only suffer liquidity .. those that pay the bill are the super bulls (me included) and that sucks .. still I am confident because I know the tech :D
You blame this to witnesses? Changing the rule to some idiotic rule? Give me a break man.
I know you are fan boy as much as the next guy...but changing the rules (without any notice) mind you to a rule that defines "I am as stupid as hell" ...
We should have known this shit was serious when bm brought it up during the mumble without even being asked...
What did he say about it? I had to work (as usual) and couldn't be there.
-
Yeah that's bull. I'm pretty close to being done with bts. That's a bad rule. Honestly the bitasset market shouldn't be operational til yunbi and btc38 have upgraded
tell this to the witnesses .. I open a thread asking them not to publish feeds right after launch :-(
Anwyway .. in general the launch was a success and we only suffer liquidity .. those that pay the bill are the super bulls (me included) and that sucks .. still I am confident because I know the tech :D
You blame this to witnesses? Changing the rule to some idiotic rule? Give me a break man.
I know you are fan boy as much as the next guy...but changing the rules (without any notice) mind you to a rule that defines "I am as stupid as hell" ...
We should have known this shit was serious when bm brought it up during the mumble without even being asked...
haha
so if BM says "I want to talk about..."
you just sell?
I think this should have worked on any and all occasions. :)
-
There is no issue if you have lots of collateral if your a shorter. YOu need more than 3Xs.
-
There is no issue if you have lots of collateral if your a shorter. YOu need more than 3Xs.
Even if that's true, 3x collateral won't stay 3x for long with so many people being forced to dump BTS at 2/3 the market rate.
-
There is no issue if you have lots of collateral if your a shorter. YOu need more than 3Xs.
Even if that's true, 3x collateral won't stay 3x for long with so many people being forced to dump BTS at 2/3 the market rate.
BTS 2.0 Works. This post has been misdirecting people. 3X will go very far, maybe into 8.88MM. If that doesn't suit you then do 6X's. Your shorting it, and it will help peopel buy USD and bring Liquidity to the market.
Otherwise NOTHING is WRONG.
STAY CALM... BTS 2.0 WORKS.
-
Why is the margin call price for cny 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just had a one of my short positions called even though my margin price was 0.025 BTS/CNY which the market never hit and the collateral was sold at 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just lost a lot of money...
Clout what was your collateral?
If it was only 2Xs, its probably not enough. It might need to be 5X's in this thin market.
-
There is no issue if you have lots of collateral if your a shorter. YOu need more than 3Xs.
Even if that's true, 3x collateral won't stay 3x for long with so many people being forced to dump BTS at 2/3 the market rate.
BTS 2.0 Works. This post has been misdirecting people. 3X will go very far, maybe into 8.88MM. If that doesn't suit you then do 6X's. Your shorting it, and it will help peopel buy USD and bring Liquidity to the market.
Otherwise NOTHING is WRONG.
STAY CALM... BTS 2.0 WORKS.
Well aside from driving strong bulls (read true believers ) out of their BTS positions for 50% loss (let me put it more correctly - forcing them to sell at .66 the fair price) without any sign and warning.... it does.
-
Why is the margin call price for cny 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just had a one of my short positions called even though my margin price was 0.025 BTS/CNY which the market never hit and the collateral was sold at 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just lost a lot of money...
Clout what was your collateral?
If it was only 2Xs, its probably not enough. It might need to be 5X's in this thin market.
Bitshares has been 3X collateral for the past two years it makes no sense why in 2.0 you would need 5X. The whole point of the upgrade was so that less collateral would be needed. I'm literally done. I don't think I can endorse this project.
-
Why is the margin call price for cny 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just had a one of my short positions called even though my margin price was 0.025 BTS/CNY which the market never hit and the collateral was sold at 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just lost a lot of money...
Clout what was your collateral?
If it was only 2Xs, its probably not enough. It might need to be 5X's in this thin market.
Bitshares has been 3X collateral for the past two years it makes no sense why in 2.0 you would need 5X. The whole point of the upgrade was so that less collateral would be needed. I'm literally done. I don't think I can endorse this project.
the most unfair is you'll lose (1-10/11) when you are force margin call, after upgrade to 2.0, without any notify, you'll lose (1-10/15)
-
Why is the margin call price for cny 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just had a one of my short positions called even though my margin price was 0.025 BTS/CNY which the market never hit and the collateral was sold at 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just lost a lot of money...
Clout what was your collateral?
If it was only 2Xs, its probably not enough. It might need to be 5X's in this thin market.
Bitshares has been 3X collateral for the past two years it makes no sense why in 2.0 you would need 5X. The whole point of the upgrade was so that less collateral would be needed. I'm literally done. I don't think I can endorse this project.
You do not need 5x, you need 1.75 *1.5 =2.62x. That's with the current maintenance and squeeze protection ratios defined by the witnesses.
Several things are bothering me about the current market engine though:
1. Margin called shorts cannot force cover at a fair price, but only at a price between their call price and feed + 50%. In BTS 1.0 this range was from feed to feed + 10% (unless I misunderstood that too)
2. Margin called shorts do not use the holder's current stock of bit assets to cover, but always buy on the open market at a premium.
3. The market engine allows margin positions to be opened at 1.75 collateral ratio, a position that gets margin called right away (I now prevent this in the GUI)
4. Probably most important: no one knew it worked like this before yesterday pretty much (including me)..
-
Why is the margin call price for cny 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just had a one of my short positions called even though my margin price was 0.025 BTS/CNY which the market never hit and the collateral was sold at 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just lost a lot of money...
Clout what was your collateral?
If it was only 2Xs, its probably not enough. It might need to be 5X's in this thin market.
Bitshares has been 3X collateral for the past two years it makes no sense why in 2.0 you would need 5X. The whole point of the upgrade was so that less collateral would be needed. I'm literally done. I don't think I can endorse this project.
You do not need 5x, you need 1.75 *1.5 =2.62x. That's with the current maintenance and squeeze protection ratios defined by the witnesses.
Several things are bothering me about the current market engine though:
1. Margin called shorts cannot force cover at a fair price, but only at a price between their call price and feed + 50%. In BTS 1.0 this range was from feed to feed + 10% (unless I misunderstood that too)
2. Margin called shorts do not use the holder's current stock of bit assets to cover, but always buy on the open market at a premium.
3. The market engine allows margin positions to be opened at 1.75 collateral ratio, a position that gets margin called right away (I now prevent this in the GUI)
4. Probably most important: no one knew it worked like this before yesterday pretty much (including me)..
Seriously. Someone wake up the witnesses. This is going to do very serious damage if we don't fix it now.
EDIT: Almost there! Just a few more witnesses needed.
-
And it's done. The sell wall has moved to 110%. Congratulations everyone on dynamically managing blockchain parameters with no need to fork.
The MSSR does seem like a parameter that could be better managed by the committee members than by the witnesses, but at the moment I'm just glad it could be managed in a dynamic and decentralized way without too many bottlenecks. We took a hit from this, but we're still learning how to run this, and it could have been much worse.
-
I think we fix it
-
I think we fix it
Indeed. Now someone go tell the people over at Poloniex that it's fixed so they can stop dumping.
-
And it's done. The sell wall has moved to 110%. Congratulations everyone on dynamically managing blockchain parameters with no need to fork.
The MSSR does seem like a parameter that could be better managed by the committee members than by the witnesses, but at the moment I'm just glad it could be managed in a dynamic and decentralized way without too many bottlenecks. We took a hit from this, but we're still learning how to run this, and it could have been much worse.
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore."
-
many people hurt by this, many of them even don't know they have lost, their BTS have been selled at price 0.0193CNY/BTS even they have 2.75X reserve
I think we need a long time to recover...
so sad we action late
-
so that mean I have lost all collateral for my shorts from bts1!
great!
-
so that mean I have lost all collateral for my shorts from bts1!
great!
you should check it, not all short position have been force margin call.
-
There is no issue if you have lots of collateral if your a shorter. YOu need more than 3Xs.
Even if that's true, 3x collateral won't stay 3x for long with so many people being forced to dump BTS at 2/3 the market rate.
BTS 2.0 Works. This post has been misdirecting people. 3X will go very far, maybe into 8.88MM. If that doesn't suit you then do 6X's. Your shorting it, and it will help peopel buy USD and bring Liquidity to the market.
Otherwise NOTHING is WRONG.
STAY CALM... BTS 2.0 WORKS.
Well aside from driving strong bulls (read true believers ) out of their BTS positions for 50% loss (let me put it more correctly - forcing them to sell at .66 the fair price) without any sign and warning.... it does.
Precisely that:
1. There is no place where the functionality is defined and explained. I played with this yesterday to understand it, and so far i still don't have a clue. Worse i can't read up on it.
2. Just because you have something that works technically does not mean u have a working solution. Example is counterparts DEX. The CP people tell you they have an awesome DEX and the only and first of its kind, but if you ever used it you know it does not work. It seems a little the same way with BTS 2.0 when it comes to the pegged assets. Just like with counterparts this is the most important feature and will make or break this system and just ignoring the problem by saying it works is not going to be a solution.
-
Why is the margin call price for cny 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just had a one of my short positions called even though my margin price was 0.025 BTS/CNY which the market never hit and the collateral was sold at 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just lost a lot of money...
Clout what was your collateral?
If it was only 2Xs, its probably not enough. It might need to be 5X's in this thin market.
I think that is what i have learned as well. However that is a really shitty deal for the shorter. Generally why short in this market in the first place. The margin call needs to be adjusted much more aggressively in favor of the shorter. It seems to me everything has been designed in favor of the USD holder while we need something that is a bit more balanced.
-
I updated the collateral on an old expired USD short in BTS0.9 this morning. I wasn't margin called, but having a ton of collateral did help..
I feel the loss of those who were margin called...
I'm an eternal optimist though. It's time to short at those prices and get some liquidity in this market. I have an open sell order for USD on the DEX, freshly shorted! I hope a lot of people are able to import their keys and get their wallet working soon, I would like to see some action and big buy/sell walls ;)
To prevent being margin called I prefer to put more collateral than required since there seems to be a lot of volatility, and I'm not always keeping an eye on my collateral ratio. Before the price gets more stable and less prone to manipulation, better be safe than sorry.
-
many people hurt by this, many of them even don't know they have lost, their BTS have been selled at price 0.0193CNY/BTS even they have 2.75X reserve
I think we need a long time to recover...
so sad we action late
Sooner certainly would have been better, but there's still 111,550.17 BitUSD in existence, so which indicates that we managed to save most shorters' collateral from being dumped. Does anyone know how much was actually force bought at 150%?
I really hope all the shorters who were liquidated can recover, but I think we stopped it in time to save the network. The good news is that other than that serious issue, the 2.0 launch seems to have gone amazingly well. It's probably a good thing that we now have a chance to stabilize our processes and polish the user interface before the referral program starts bringing in new users.
-
Yeah that's bull. I'm pretty close to being done with bts. That's a bad rule. Honestly the bitasset market shouldn't be operational til yunbi and btc38 have upgraded
Any ideas when they become operational?
:-\
-
I hope there is some kind of protection built in like averaging if the price feed is using only poloniex. The buy support there is very thin and it can get wiped out at any moment. Even if someone with a big long panics and closes the margin it will cascade and drop BTS to almost 0.
-
Why don't we use global forced settlement?