BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: Method-X on October 22, 2015, 12:45:33 am
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The bottleneck to adoption and utility is bootstrapping liquidity. Always has been.
Step #1: You need bitUSD liquidity.
Step #2: Do stuff that ONLY makes sense on a decentralized exchange and/or with stable crypto.
So we all know #1 needs to happen before anything else can occur. Once you've got decent liquidity:
a) The referral program will actually work because conversion will be good (people referred will actually generate income for the referrer). In fact, I would recommend lowering fees until you have some initial traction and conversion increases.
b) BitUSD can be used for gambling.
c) BitUSD can be used to securely trade altcoin derivatives on the DEX.
d) BitUSD can be used in countries with unstable currencies.
e) BitUSD can be used to buy stuff on the darknet (especially with stealth transactions).
A stable crypto has a ton of utility but only if it's liquid. Everyone who follows and develops for this project obviously gets that. The only discussion going on right now should be how to get to a liquid USD. The story of bitshares has, from the beginning, been a chicken and egg problem and I'm honestly not sure it can be solved at this point. Someone tell me I'm wrong?
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bitUSD volume is low
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What's preventing market makers?
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What's preventing market makers?
Documentation is one thing.
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Is open source market maker not aa good idea?
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What's preventing market makers?
wallet api is missing some needed commands
1) cancel_order
2) get outstanding orders by account
3) get market history
I tried porting my 1.0 market maker to 2.0 but hit a wall with those commands. I didn't have time to to try a hack by searching the blockchain transactions for my ID to try to find all the transaction objects
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Is open source market maker not aa good idea?
That was talked about a year ago but Toast left with Rune to develop makerdao (http://makerdao.com) for Ethereum. Market making seems to be the elephant in the room not being addressed by the developers. There has been so much talk about creating a pretty GUI and not enough talk about how to actually get liquidity. Honestly, the GUI is pretty sweet right now and will only get better. You can make a GUI that looks like Apple themselves created it but it'll still be useless without liquidity.
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Somebody create a worker proposal for an open source market maker.
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What's preventing market makers?
Importing wallet.
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Somebody create a worker proposal for an open source market maker.
What is the pay rate that you will personally approve such proposal?
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Somebody create a worker proposal for an open source market maker.
What is the pay rate that you will personally approve such proposal?
I have no idea. I would set it pretty high though, as I see this as being a pretty glaring barrier to adoption and thus should be high priority.
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A stable crypto has a ton of utility but only if it's liquid. Everyone who follows and develops for this project obviously gets that. The only discussion going on right now should be how to get to a liquid USD. The story of bitshares has, from the beginning, been a chicken and egg problem and I'm honestly not sure it can be solved at this point. Someone tell me I'm wrong?
+5%
You're absolutely right.
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Can somebody explain ways to make money that have something to do with bitusd? Any arbitrage opportunities somewhere?
I know there is good chance to get great deal on bitusd -> BTS on Bitshares exchange. But where to get spot price on BTS -> bitusd? Obviously I can create bitusd by borrowing it to existence. What do I have to take into account when doing it? If the price goes up or down, how I have to change my position? How much collateral I have to have?
If somebody could make a step by step explanation for trader newbies like me, that would be great. I haven't done any trading because I lack knowledge of all the risks and opportunities. I bet there are lots of people like me who could use some of their money on trading if they just had the basic information how to exactly do it.
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Can somebody explain ways to make money that have something to do with bitusd? Any arbitrage opportunities somewhere?
I know there is good chance to get great deal on bitusd -> BTS on Bitshares exchange. But where to get spot price on BTS -> bitusd? Obviously I can create bitusd by borrowing it to existence. What do I have to take into account when doing it? If the price goes up or down, how I have to change my position? How much collateral I have to have?
If somebody could make a step by step explanation for trader newbies like me, that would be great. I haven't done any trading because I lack knowledge of all the risks and opportunities. I bet there are lots of people like me who could use some of their money on trading if they just had the basic information how to exactly do it.
don't borrow bitusd to buy BTS if you don't have enough trade experience.
I suggest you borrow some bitusd to trade with usd at ccedk.com.you can be a market maker, earn 1% for each order.
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don't borrow bitusd to buy BTS if you don't have enough trade experience.
I'd advise a bit different strategy.
If you don't have much trading experience just play with the devil but start with a very small amount (e.g. 1000 BTS).
And even if you earn something in the process do not increase your stake until you are sure you understand how it works.
IMO there no other way to learn but to try with real money (but small amounts) for these reasons:
- no theoretical training can teach you how to deal with your emotions and avid making irrational decisions
- when you play with real money your brain has a really good motivation to learn
- your mistakes get hard-coded into your brain so the chance you make the same mistake twice is smaller
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Basically, do the same thing NBT did - have not just a price feed tool, but also a tool that provides liquidity to the acct owner.
Have a parameter, such as % around price feed. e.g. I'd set mine to 1% around price feed.
I know NBT is more centralized, but there are some good lessons to be learned from their experiment.
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Basically, do the same thing NBT did - have not just a price feed tool, but also a tool that provides liquidity to the acct owner.
Have a parameter, such as % around price feed. e.g. I'd set mine to 1% around price feed.
I know NBT is more centralized, but there are some good lessons to be learned from their experiment.
Absolutely!
Guys from Nubits already find a way to create motivation (risk free transactional profit) and create necessary tools (bots for centralized exchanges). Proposed worker should just copypaste what Nubits did, but do it better: We should create open source service that will allow (1) to deploy liquidity bots to DI or AWS or whatever else and (2) find a way to publish analytics. Thus could exist (1) competition between bots and (2) competition between market makers.
I'd suggest a full paid worker for this task.
Also!
There is essential motivation for existing central exchanges to create bitUSD pairs (for example bitUSD instead of Tether on Polo). So every exchange will be able to earn referral revenue just because they registered users.
I'd suggest a full paid worker for somebody from leading exchange to create success story.
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If somebody could make a step by step explanation for trader newbies like me, that would be great. I haven't done any trading because I lack knowledge of all the risks and opportunities. I bet there are lots of people like me who could use some of their money on trading if they just had the basic information how to exactly do it.
I'm still a newb at shorting and stuff too, but this link was recommended to me:
School of Pipsology
http://www.babypips.com/school
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don't borrow bitusd to buy BTS if you don't have enough trade experience.
I'd advise a bit different strategy.
If you don't have much trading experience just play with the devil but start with a very small amount (e.g. 1000 BTS).
And even if you earn something in the process do not increase your stake until you are sure you understand how it works.
IMO there no other way to learn but to try with real money (but small amounts) for these reasons:
- no theoretical training can teach you how to deal with your emotions and avid making irrational decisions
- when you play with real money your brain has a really good motivation to learn
- your mistakes get hard-coded into your brain so the chance you make the same mistake twice is smaller
i agree, learning by doing is the most effective approach; just make sure it's with small amounts and don't let getting lucky early on inflate your opinion of your trading prowess such that you size up positions too soon!
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+5% @nubits stuff
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Basically, do the same thing NBT did - have not just a price feed tool, but also a tool that provides liquidity to the acct owner.
Have a parameter, such as % around price feed. e.g. I'd set mine to 1% around price feed.
I know NBT is more centralized, but there are some good lessons to be learned from their experiment.
Yeah I really agree with this. If I'm not mistaken, NuBits had/has market making bots on centralized exchanges to provide liquidity but when BTER and other exchanges got hacked last year they took a really big hit. We would basically do the same thing they did but with the DEX instead?
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market BTS/USD seems much better now,
there are almost 9,000 USD depth for both bid and ask
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We should give it a few months for markets to develop. It is a process that will take time as new users study how the system works and test with small amounts of money before jumping in.
If necessary, there are some things that can be explored such as dynamic burning that I describe here:
"Instead of directly burning bts, those bts designated for burning should be dynamically burned by using them to create bitassets through a special transaction where the only redemption of those bts can occur through a liquidation event (margin call), providing liquidity to the network. Over time as the value of bts increases, this will work to effectively burn those bts while still providing a benefit to the network."
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19338.0.html (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19338.0.html)
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Is open source market maker not aa good idea?
That was talked about a year ago but Toast left with Rune to develop makerdao (http://makerdao.com) for Ethereum. Market making seems to be the elephant in the room not being addressed by the developers. There has been so much talk about creating a pretty GUI and not enough talk about how to actually get liquidity. Honestly, the GUI is pretty sweet right now and will only get better. You can make a GUI that looks like Apple themselves created it but it'll still be useless without liquidity.
This makes a lot of sense. I totally agree and support this.
My 2 cents.
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What's stopping me is that I cannot buy bitUSD via a BTC:USD based limit order in a single trade. Most liquidity is at BTS:USD but I am concerned with having my position filled at the right BTC:USD price. I don't want to worry about the BTS:USD price limits! All I want to do is BTC:USD analysis and trading.
But in BitShares I first need to move my BTC to BTS then back to BTC then place a BTC:USD order. But if I do these trades how much will I lose with exchange rate slipping especially when the markets already have low liquidity? Some decentralized alternatives to this at the moment are Mycelium>Coinapult or Coinomi>NuBits. Seems a lot easier not using BitShares just yet. Don't know the exact cost differences but the alternatives are much simpler.
If only I could go direct from BTC into bitUSD in a single transaction based on a BTC:USD price limit order.
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Basically, do the same thing NBT did - have not just a price feed tool, but also a tool that provides liquidity to the acct owner.
Have a parameter, such as % around price feed. e.g. I'd set mine to 1% around price feed.
I know NBT is more centralized, but there are some good lessons to be learned from their experiment.
Yeah I really agree with this. If I'm not mistaken, NuBits had/has market making bots on centralized exchanges to provide liquidity but when BTER and other exchanges got hacked last year they took a really big hit. We would basically do the same thing they did but with the DEX instead?
What does it take to do that? Why don't we support something like this? Bots would be safe running on the exchange. Is it because the API is still incomplete? This should be a priority, volume gets us tighter pegs and more traders